Performance increases by raising pressure. Shimming hydraulics.
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- Full pressure vs power video from Biff's equipment (shared with permission)
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I think many are missing the point on how this came about..It was found many tractors had low pressure , not in specs..its about getting the correct pressure they are designed for..if your pressure is low why not correct it...no difference if your tire is low..most are going to put the correct air pressure in.
Neil, You have by far one of the best tractor based RUclips channels out there! Great job explaining the risk vs. the reward here, this is a video that anyone who is thinking about doing a hydraulic pressure increase should watch. You are much better at explaining things clearly than I am! Keep up the great content and I thank you VERY much for the shout out! 👍🏻
My BX was delivered at 1640psi and it was gutless I brought it to 1950psi and it’s great. I know for a fact it made a difference
(1950-1640)/1640 is an increase of 19%, which is a really big difference in function, especially with subcompact tractor.
Bought a used Mahindra Max26XL that seemed to have a pretty weak loader. Dealer implied "that's just the way it is." I mentioned i couldn't even lift the front end pushing down with the bucket....same response. So i bought a guage to attach to the loader control valve and ended up measuring about 1300psi max. I adjusted to loader relief valve to 1950psi (max spec is 2200) and i can fairly certainly say it was not a placebo effect :).
biff made it big time. way to go Biff. Your channel just got a huge boost from the Kubota king himself Neil.
When I bought my BX2680, I couldn't lift enough weight in the bucket to lift the back wheels off the ground. I bumped my pressure up to 2000 psi and then I could lift enough weight to lift the back wheels. I then made a 400 pound ballast box, which transfers that extra weight to the rear end, and I can now definitely lift more with the bucket.
A point worth mentioning, while these machines are incredibly capable, it’s still a tractor. It’s not an excavator, it’s not a track loader, it’s not a bulldozer. While you may have the ability to do the same type of work as those you have to adjust your expectations and come to the realization that a small backhoe attachment or whatever on a tractor is NOT going to be as strong or as fast as the dedicated piece of construction equipment designed to perform that one task. Once you understand that you will learn to love your tractor for what it can do, instead of wishing it can do more.
Biffs video showed a 14% increase when his gauge read 2000 PSI vs. 1750 PSI. So it wasn't 2 to 4% like you were referring to, so in general a well used tractor that is getting 200+ PSI less than a factory spec will actually greatly improve when a person would purchase the shim kit and bring it back into specs..
From 1750psi to 2000psi is a 14% increase in pressure. So, like he said if you’re barely “off spec” according to your gauge you really don’t gain much. Or if spec is 2400psi and you go over that to 2500psi, you don’t gain much. But if you’re way off there IS a big difference. 👍
Thank you for saying what needed to be said. Far too many people buy these little tractors thinking it'll do anything they tell it to. They don't realize how much practice it takes to, say, load the loader bucket without lifting the front wheels off the ground, or not dig into the ground when trying to grab a pile, or just plain making a surface level, properly (no, back-dragging is not how pros make their work smooth and flat, it's how they hide their tracks, and that's it). When it doesn't work the way they think it should, they instead try to modify the tractor rather than learning the feel of the tractor and really getting to know the machine. This presents a bigger problem as then you have someone that doesn't know the feel of their tractor boosting it beyond specs that are already high enough to be dangerous in inexperienced hands. This makes the tractor much more likely to tip, and when you don't know the feel of the tractor, you won't respond in time to prevent that.
My Bobcat CT1021 was at 1650 psi and i bumped it up to 2400 psi and it made a world of difference! It was definitely worth it for me. And i used it hard for 200 hours like that with zero issues. Tractor is now sold as i bought the CT2025!
My 2003 bx2230 with 711 loader was set at 1200 psi. It wouldn’t pick up a half bucket of dirt. I shimmed it over 10 years ago to 2100 psi and it’s been great. Other than some hoses eventually failing on a 20 year old machine, there has been no adverse effects. The hoses were all rated for 3500 psi, so everything was still completely safe. The little bx has over 2k hours on it now, and over 1K of that at increased pressure. It absolutely made a huge difference. Most BX tractors came well below factory settings.
I have a 35hp New Holland tractor that is extremely powerful and capable. I wanted to increase hp, pulling force, traction, hydraulic lift power, and overall capability. So I bought a 70hp New Holland tractor.
Leave the engineering to the professional engineers!
and I have a 40hp New Holland I wanted to increase hp. so I added custom haltech ECU, bigger ballbearing turbo, boost controller , precision 34mm waste gate, custom welded intercooler piping and intercooler, bigger injectors , propane injection, forged pistons and rods, after market head bolts and gaskets. Now I have a 145 up tractor
@@rickywoods3101 and the extended warranty ;)
@@rickywoods3101 for the price of a 200HP tractor.
@@rickywoods3101 Bet that sucker is extremely reliable, LOL.
@@rustynail7866 it's all worth people seeing me pull a 15' batwing brush hog in a compact tractor beside the freeway :) lmao
My L2501 had a terrible lift capacity for its size! Every other manufactures tractor would lift more in comparison of equal tractor!
I checked pressures and was just over 2000 psi..maybe 2200. I added shims..checking pressures with each one…finally got to just under 2600 psi and it did make a noticeable difference!
I tested before on something so heavy I know it wouldn’t lift…just dead headed the bypass valve ..after the shim kit I retested the same weight. The back of the tractor came off the ground this time! I know it needs ballast to lift heavier objects! I guessing that’s why kubota limits lift capacity for safety reasons?
I work on rotary gear/positive displacement pumps along with many other types of pumps. Gear pumps have very tight clearances which vary depending on viscosity. All pumps have a maximum pressure limit of which it can operate and not fail. Unless you know for a fact what that limit is, don’t mess with it. Gear pumps are specked out closely for the required performance vs the product viscosity the pump will be pumping. I personally have seen many failures because someone cranked up the pressure relief valve to get more pressure/ flow. I just smile and hand nice size repair bill for $$$$$.
Pto torque is 9 out of 10 times limiting. The gearpump itself is almost always capable of doing of doing about 200 bars. But what you say is right.
But most systems are rated much higher then they are actually working at. Most systems im looking at are failed by quick couplings where dirt comes in. And reliefs cranked up al the way to the point the engine stalls out.
@@megape95 I agree most pumps are capable of relatively higher pressures than what they are operated at. All pumps have an optimum sweet spot in their performance curve. It’s that balance between performance and longevity. The sweet spot is usually a range of which the pump can operate in with no issues. For rotary gear pumps, that range is usually narrow due their inherent tight clearances. Moving to the left or right in the performance curve usually increases the chance of early failure. You bring up a good point with dirty couplings. Gear pumps do not fare well with dirt! A gear pump w/ .003” clearances gets dirt at .005” big = wear issue. I always recommend using high quality hydraulic fluid and change those filters as needed!
Wow, more pressure equals more lift capacity equals exceeding manufacturers recommendations equal more chances of equipment failure,, HMMM
BX25D gained 30LBS capacity on the FEL by bumping up about 50PSI. That made up for the Tooth bar added on my bucket.
I'm glad you posted this video. I have worked in industrial hydraulics for years and I know just how quick one can destroy a pump really fast. Stay with the factory setting. If the factory could advertise more power, they would be doing so. But they know the limits of what they manufactur and set them accordingly.
Aw, c'mon Neil, it says "Decent" right on the gauge! Not good, not great, but Decent. 😂
I thought the same thing!
I know, I love that.
@@MessicksEquip they sell them in Australia, it says "pretty average". :)
The thing actually is pritty accurate. Have seen parker junior working worse..
@@Shane_O.5158 I thought it said, Fair Dinkum
Easiest way to increase lift, install a larger diameter hydraulic cylinder.
Easiest way to damage loader, increase lifting ability.
Easiest way to break front axle, lift more weight than it was designed to carry.
Rear ballast takes the stress off of front axles.... so increase rear ballast to offset that chance
@@rgd2598 is this a joke? Rear ballast only adds load to the front axle when you lift heavy stuff
@@megape95 Ballast behind the back wheels removes weight from the front wheels. Put enough weight far enough behind the rear wheels, the front wheels will come off the ground.
@@paullambert2668 some of what you're saying is true but when lifting with a loader no matter how much weight you put on the rear it doesn't decrease the weight on the front axle! I will say that if you put enough on the rear the front wheels will come off the ground.
@@megape95 no joke...and why the attitude? We are in this together. Let me explain my missive...ever been on a teeter totter? Then imagine the rear axle as the fulcrum. The rear ballast counters the weight on the front end loader and front axle . Simple as that
i lifted a 500 KG load with a tractor rated at 400 KG , wanna know how i done it: i removed the bucket and attached a sling to the loader, to get a delivery off a truck.
Thanks for explaining that, Neil, so that even I could understand it!!!👍
My 2650 is reading 2100. Factory spec is 2,400 to 2450. That puts me about 13% below spec. I think a couple shims would be worth it.
Hey Neil, dont forget safety glasses when dealing with hydraulics. Dont shake hands with danger.
After 900 hrs on my bx25d I have noticed a small drop in lift capacity, not enough to worry about but keeping an eye on things. A mechanic friend suggested the spring may have lost some tone because I use the bucket a lot. He told me the same thing you just said about shimming the pressure regulator, suggested replacing the spring if the loss of lift capacity gets worse. Added that it would probably last another 12 years before that happens. Love my bx.
Great video. Very informative.Thanks Neal! Love Biff's channel!
Thanks Neil ,
Like most folks I have kicked around the idea of pressure increasing. I think I am going to opt for larger diameter cylinders but I am concerned about the BX23S hydraulic volume . I really value your videos. You do a great job. Don't let it go to your head.
Very very well thought out and explained video. I really like the fact you drive the point of how this a) is basically useless b) higher potential of equipment damage. Keep up the great work Mr. Neil!!!!!
Everybody's mileage can vary, but raising my pressure from about 2,200 to 2600 on my L3700SU made a huge difference. From my personal testing the tractor lifts roughly 400 pounds more now. I actually had to increase my ballast because it started lifting the rear tires with 1,000lbs ballast box.
Not only does it make a difference lifting using 1750 psi vs 2000psi, it also makes a significant difference in downward force on the FEL, like when digging below grade. The available pressure to push down is hampered by the shaft occupying space on the hydraulic piston in the cylinder. At 1750 psi, the FEL could not lift the front end of the stock BX25 off the ground. Not sure what the pressure is now, but I can now elevate the BX25 about 10" off the ground using the FEL and the backhoe stabilizers. When using a tractor model that is already operating in the 2450psi range, does not reflect the number of people who are buying hydraulic pressure gauges and shims for the smaller series.
You sure picked a good one to test. I am very satisfied with mine
It's all math. I've fixed a lot of components that guys started out with a 500 psi boost. The math also applies to the structure. You're going to do more damage than good over time.
I was wondering about the stress on the seals, filter, and valves.
@@RoanJS if you're pushing the cylinders with more force the pressure will tend to cock the cylinders harder as things stress and the seals suffer. Heavier pressure spikes affect your valves also.people always forget the spikes. Unless you went nuts with your adjustment, this all happens over a period of time pending use. Hoses also catch some helll at the fitting ends too. If you're going to adjust it be smart and realize you're not getting that much more out of it. Take care of what you have if you need something more get a bigger tractor.
@@RoanJS sorry about the spelling I was out hunting and didn't proofread
I think you can increase it quite a bit on an old BX like mine. Factory spec is like 1750 psi, but after 15 years it's quite a bit lower. If you can increase that from 1650 or so to 1900 psi, you could easily add an extra 200 lbs of ability in lifting something off the ground.
Disclaimer is that I didn't shim mine, and have no intention to.
Thanks Neil! Thanks Biff! Great explanation all around!
Neil, I disagree with your logic here. If the lift power of the pistons increases by 4%, you get much more than 4% increase in lift capacity. This is because the weight of the loader itself has not changed, and the weight of the loader itself is a significant constant limiting factor in the bucket lift capacity.
watch the video to the end. The tests prove it out.
@@MessicksEquip I want to see Neil prove it out with your force gauge. Those are some of my favorite videos.
more pressure equals more heat, more heat equals shorter seal life, it also equals shorter fluid life and more fluid break down which in turn equals more wear. personally, I'd rather keep the things that i purchase to do work as stock as possible and use high quality filters and fluids as i'd rather they keep working and not have to fix them.
Once you know about hydraulic pressure,you know that once you increase pressure you increase break out force.
If it is not broken dont fix it you want more power get a bigger tractor plain and simple
Exactly
Thanks Neil I so enjoy watching your videos and have learnt so much from them. If i didnt live in Oz I would be headed your way to buy something from you 😊
Granted biff is a little over max pressure 150lbs lift capacity is a pretty substantial improvement for a tractor that can only pick up 500 or 600 lbs it's almost 30% unless I did some math wrong. I figure with these little bx tractors anything helps. when I had a bx when it was new I increased my pressure 150 psi to 1950 psi seems all the bx tractors are set on the lower end of the psi specs anyway.
Yup wrong math. You have to use his measurement of 930, then increase of 150 is 16%.
@@dwawa23 I'm figuring with the bucket on that will subtract close to 200lbs from biffs measurement
My l3301 was 1900psi when I got it I turned it to 2800 psi my 525 loader lifts 1700 pounds of concrete blocks on pallet and forks now mine modification made a big difference
My 2005 BX23 has lost pressure. My FEL will no longer easily lift the front of the tractor, nor will the Hoe bucket curl through roots it once easily did. It is no-where near its original pressure. The purpose of the shim kits is to restore pressure to old tractors that have suffered long years of fatigue on the spring in the pressure relief valve that has lead to lower than spec pressure. Playing with a few PSI on a new tractor is virtually meaningless... but for old tractors that have lots of years with hundreds of hours... that spring DOES fatigue. Its not about going way over spec., its about getting back to spec.
shim kits are a scam for the price you want to get back to new do it right like I did replace the spring or relief valve don't shim it. It needs shims for one reason it weakened the spring with a weak spring where does the shimming stop? replace the spring you pay $60-$100 for a shim kit with $30 worth of stuff that fixes nothing when the spring becomes weak enough to have to shim it replace the spring.
@@mrbrown3462 shims are .65 cents a piece it takes one or two. You buy the gauge one time use it again. $35 total.
Maybe i just have an odd tractor but i have a bx1500 with an la181 loader before shims i was at 1700 psi lift capacity was 410lbs at the pins, i increased psi to 1900 and at the same location it is now 524lbs. I wouldn't say i recommend doing this unless you are experienced and know 100% the risks you take, very easy to blow cylinders, lines, pump, bend loader arms, frame.
@First Choice Mechanical that is a 25% increase - pretty impressive.
Very informative. However, shims can and do have a significant performance impact on high-hour tractors. I do however agree that exceeding the factory specs is simply not prudent. Engineers are really good at math.
I enjoy your videos, but, you do not need to lie about the prices of the shim kit to scare people. At most it’s $20.00. I agree completely that 95% of the time it’s not worth the effort to do it. We brought the pressure up to spec in our compact and it did help. The reason it helped us is the amount of ballast that we have on the machine. We have the large amounts of ballast weight very low underneath for stability more than carrying capacity.
Shims are like $2. It's the gauges and fittings that run the cost up.
I had always felt that my curl was very weak on my loader. It would lift the front of the tractor off the ground, but just didn’t seem to have power while digging. I tested my pressure at the rear SCV’s that feed my loader and it was 2800psi, but when I tested coming out of the loader control valve, it was only 1200psi (should be 2500psi per loader spec). I took out the pressure relief valve cartridge from the loader valve and the spring inside was broken in two pieces! That’ll do it. Waiting on part to come in, but hoping for a 50% increase in power!
Update: New cartridge installed and completely changed my loader. Will now lift the rear tires off the ground. Unbelievable. I was about to sell tractor because I thought it was just an undersized loader.
Hey what would make the hydro filter seal blow and thungsbi can check just oit of warranty
The WSM for my bx says 1840psi. Mine was delivered with 200 less than that. it couldn't lift it's own front wheels off the ground. Shimming fixed that quickly and easily versus having to take it back to the dealer.
Same mine came at 1640, I went to 1950
@@dngendron maybe there was a bad batch of BXes maladjusted at the factory
@@andys31337 mine is a 2020 bought it in May of this year.
I am fine with your message. So at what PSI is it time to use shims?
Outstanding. Science!
If you want more out of your hydraulics, you probably are going to have to get a bigger tractor that has a better flow in order to use hydraulic attachments that are out of the range of some of the smaller compact tractors. However, you can look at one of the videos and and see how you can safely add hydraulic power to other attachments that need more flow by purchasing trailblazers hydraulic power pack that is PTO driven from the rear shaft. It might be a good video to show how this trailblazer hydraulic power pack can be used on smaller tractors to drive other attachments besides trailblazers articulating front brush hog. For example, Kubota LX and the John Deere 2R series do not have enough hydraulic flow to power some implements that rely on hydraulic power rather than PTO. However, I bet you could hook up that trailblazer hydraulic power pack and make a hydraulic driven auger work on the front end of those two tractors without any really issues. I think I just gave Neil hopefully an idea to demonstrate that. I myself, would like to see how it works. LOL
Relief valves protect the system from the loose nut behind the wheel.
I know you are trying to discourage people from doing this mod, you are using the full lift height numbers. Add 4% at the breakout force, and you gain a solid 100#+.
I need to pick up one of those gauges because I’ve always thought that my PX should pick up a little bit more I did buy it brand new
Am I the only one thinking that maybe they don't put larger loaders on a tractor for a reason?
I wish my LX2610SU lifted more than it does, but even with loaded tires I can already lift enough to get the rear tires off the ground.
Front tires and axles I feel are not made for that much more weight.
Very Nice Informative Video Sir 👌👌😇😇👍👍🍻🍻
this is a common problem, whether by modifying or not. overloading almost anything is a bad idea (within reason)
Do a video on the high end, largest, and most powerful equipment you've currently got on hand.
A 10% increase will make a significant difference & cause zero issues. I have been running my tractor that way for years.
Yes you have the numbers but real field experience is where it's at
Hello,
I don't agree. 2% of increase PSI doesn't at all mean 2% increase at the cilinders (except if your cilinder only has 1 Square Inch). In theorie you get 2 % increase per Square Inch so if your cilinder has a surface of 5 Square Inches you get.... (In theorie).
Don't you agree?
I do agree, that if a person doesn't fully understand every part that can suffer from the PSI increase it's better to let a pro do it or not to do it at all.
I like your videos.
Cheers from Belgium.
P.S. I talked to fast, I'm wrong.😣
Love Neil’s videos but in this case his math is a bit off. Force = psi x cylinder area.
Sorry guys... Neil is correct. It’s a linear relationship. Yes, the force equals pressure times area, but the area is constant. Hence, the resultant increase in force is directly proportional to the increase in pressure, assuming all other factors being equal (such as loader position, lift angle, friction, etc.). Thus, a 2% increase in pressure equals a 2% increase in force, and a 5% increase in pressure produces a 5% increase in force, etc. It’s that simple.
And yes, I’m a university professor of engineering and have spent decades in private engineering practice, so I might know a bit about hydraulics and math 😉
@@profdave2861 it makes perfect sense to me but I was a kinesiology graduate/trainer/safe work guy.
Your explanation is a lot like the explanation I would give young adults wanting to look like Arnold. To first look like Arnold you have to have Arnold's general size and shape.
Imagine how bored I would get telling five foot five guys that looking like Arnold was not going to happen.
I did have a very good conversation with a young lady once about why she could just not be as strong as the guys lifting despite her being the same size as some of them.
I told her that it all came down to density. Men's bones are more dense than women's. Therefore more muscle ligaments can be attached to mens bones.
Your loader constant reminded me of this. For there to be a change, there has to be a change. You can add more strain but really, in the end, you're just adding strain.
@@profdave2861
You are correct, now I made the calculation on a piece paper I see my error.
Thank you.
@@roflstomps324 that’s a great story! I know very little about kinesiology but I believe there are some interesting similarities between kinesiology and the engineering topic of kinematics (sometimes called “the geometry of motion”). Things like loader arms with pinned connections and force-inducing linkages (hydraulic cylinders) aren’t all that much different from bones and joints and muscles!
There’s nothing placebo afoot i’d say that’s rewriting the story being proven by each & every video. Have no doubt it puts the machine under greater stress & invalidates warranties & so on & so forth but its a 21% increase in lifting ability if u just go from 2230 to 2590 psi on the LA525. Again not good on the machine to juice it but that’s no doubt a significant gain. If u could take a machine that lifts 1100lbs & get it to 1500/1600lbs lift then I could no doubt see the allure there. Prolly break stuff long term & you’d need to work to keep the rear down but having a little tractor that lifts big is mighty handy here & there. It’s not recommended but the gains are there if u really want them.
my l2501 will pick the backs wheels of the ground with a 72 inch box blade as is from the factory.. dont think ill be messing with the pressure.. but i hear you can turn up the injection pump and a few people make turbo kits for it... maybe after my warranty is up ill do that just because.. maybe..
Ditto. I can confirm that you will pick the rears up with filled tires and a six foot tiller on the back.
What more can a man want?
@@roflstomps324 mine are not even filled!
@@vdub4201 i can't imagine mine not filled. I do a lot of log work. You need that center of gravity down low.
I need to put hydraulic outlets on my old l275 any help would be appreciated
Blows my mind that you don't check pressures during a pdi. I work for a heavy equipment dealer and we've found that we have to set the pressures to max spec to make it do what the manufacturer says it should do.
no point, our manufacturers are consistent from the factory.
I saw Neil’s response..my question, is if they don’t check the pressure how do they know there is no variation in the factory pressure? Esp if customers appear to be below factory specs?
I bought an M7060 2021, and the 3 pt top and tilt controls are sooooo slow. I've turned the valve, and it doesn't matter. You just have to set there and wait real slow, not like my old L48, which you could set the speed from almost damaging fast to just perfect. Is there something I can do? My dealer didn't have a solution, other than maybe drilling something out.
Probably flow restrictor in the TNT
100 over 1000 PSI on a way overdesigned 8N, no problem. 100 over psi on a modern tightly designed tractor can do damage.
Great video Neil. It would really be nice if I could use my BX to replace a skid steer by having the same performance. I guess that is why there is so much difference in their price. I will say I've been impressed with what you can do. We have a few video doing some loader work. Have a happy Thanksgiving.
Well I have a BX 23S it’s about four years old and I’m picking up some 4 x 5 round bales from the front end with lightweight spears. And I can get it 4 inches off the ground but I’d really like to get it 8 inches off the ground so I can set it on a pallet would shims help me?
That tractor is really too small for round bales.
Thanks, Neil, for putting it out there for what it is. I think you could have addressed more how such changes can affect the rest of the system, though. Hoses, pumps, etc. all have to be considered in the extra stress being put on the system which includes the FEL and axles. Is that potential 20-140 lbs worth it?
Now can you do a video on "if it makes more noise, it must be stronger and faster"? In this area, if everyone isn't deaf within a mile radius from your "mod", it must not be making enough "noise power". (Without regards to people and animals that live in the area).
Oddly enough, the video you mentioned, he gained 150lb of lift by boosting his PSI. And he was playing it safe at 2000 psi. Guys have had no issues boosting his tractor to 2200 PSI, which would have netted him another 120lb of lift, for a total of ~270lbs of additional lift. Thats nothing to scoff at and completely explains why most guys are seeing massive improvements to lift capacity.
Yes, if your exceeding the factory spec there is more headroom.
Is there a way to up the total hydraulic gpm to run more front attachments through the 3rd function
No
Separate Hydraulic pump and tank on the 3 point running off the PTO is probably the easiest way, but a bit expensive. That, or if you're out from under warranty and have some mechanical skills, replacing the existing hydraulic pump with a larger one probably would work. Not recommended, though, unless you really know what you're doing.
Hi Neil, my question is regards to a Kubota L3301. 359hrs. Does not the spring in the relief valve weaken over time and cause a loss in useable pressure? I was thinking about shimming mine to put it back into factory spec range. Would this void my warranty? Thanks for all the work you do to educate and inform.
Over years to decades, yes.
Neil would increasing the diameter of the cylinder increase lift capacity?
more lift, more strain on the front axle, slower movement
A good does a "reality" comes in handy!
These kits are directly from kubota and dealers are supposed to check the pressures and install them, in this video you admit that dealers don't check and install these kits. Kubota doesn't ship the tractors in fully assembled condition therefore certain things should be finalized by the dealers.
Not sure where you're getting your information. Kubota does not sell these kits, and dealers do not install them. The pressures are not checked at the dealership because they are consistently right from the factory. The prep that's done at the dealership is akin to adding a Y to a garden hose, doesn't change the pressure coming out of the house.
@MessicksEquip
The procedure for doing this is right in the workshop service manual from kubota and the shims are sold directly from kubota. I agree that taking it beyond factory spec is a bad idea but many machines are way below factory spec when they leave the factory.
@@paulnykyforchyn8404 It makes sense that the service manual would have instructions and part numbers for adjusting if needed because shims are part of the factory high pressure relief valve mechanism. But are you saying that Kubota has their own factory jailbreak type of kit? On the topic of tractors not being fully assembled, Messick's showed this in another video. Loaders are off, maybe the front axle, and also wheels. Nothing in that assembly process relates to hydraulic pressure. Messick's sells a lot of Kubotas, and Neil has a track record of providing accurate and transparent data. The antidotal stories on forums about weak lift capacity out of the factory are rarely backed up by pressure readings. It's more like, hey I can't lift this 400lb engine with my loader, something must be wrong. Then it turns out that the engine is 650lbs attached to the tip of pallet forks.
Add me to the list of people who found their bx pressure low from the factory. Around 250 psi below spec. As someone who has worked in a dealership (trucks not tractors) I can't understand why they wouldn't take 5 minutes to check it on the pdi
LOL, Sub Compact and Compact Tractors on lower end like my B2320 are what they are. If you need lift capacity, get a fork lift, skid steer or telehandler.
Yep. You called it. People see my tractor and constantly say, 'why didn't you get the backhoe?'
I didn't get a backhoe because it costs 7k usd. Money does matter. For the amount of times I have needed a backhoe I am still in 7k usd.
If I need backhoe work done, my ass is over to home depot and renting a excavator for $500 or so and getting everything done in comfort and ease.
And, I'm still in 6500k usd.
i got an M7 with closed center hydraulics. can i run a hydraulic snow blower attached to the loader arms? what specifications would i need to look for?
Yes. Going to take some work though for the chute and deflector. Probably better options. See erskine.
Can you do a video about switching backhoe controls to excavator controls?
Just take the 2 hoses on each joy stick valves and switch them. I did it on my LS tractor and no problems.
So true
BS Neil, forget 2%. Do the math. It’s not placebo. If you have 2 “ cylinders, the area of the cylinder is pie R squared so a 2” cylinder has an area of 3.14 x 1(radius) squared = 3.14 per cylinder. So 2 loader cylinders = 6.28 square inches. Therefore, for example, a 100 psi increase in pressure would increase the force on your loader cylinders by 628 lbs. Not trivial. I’ve shimmed my relief valve by about that much and the increase in performance is very noticeable.
Do the math at your original pressure, then do the math at your increased pressure. You'll see that a 2% PSI increase results in a 2% force increase. Cylinder size doesn't matter.
Why are all the videos I see the kubota bx2380 has so much less lifting capacity than the others from factory im really wanting to buy one but all the videos I see are horrible for kubota lifting capacity
Don't buy tractors only by the numbers. Go drive them all. You'll buy the Kubota.
@@MessicksEquip its not really numbers its the videos I've seen of the bx series they just don't lift as much but kubota is offering better financing options
comon Neil, you are showing us your tractor that has nothing to gain and then you show us the video of the guy that gain 100# more. My loader is rated at 2700# and I would love 100# more anyday for 100$. the thing is simple. Does your tractor that you bought for a hell of a price come factory spec ? if the spec is 2400psi and it is 2385psi on your gauge it is factory spec. but if your spec is suposed to be 2000psi and you are at 1750... Factory missed the QC and your dealer too. what is the best thing to do? get the job done yourself because nobody will... just look at you making fun of the "internet guys". if the industrie would do a decent job, not talking about you on this but there is a lot of Bad dealer over the country...
my 3901 can't lift the back end up with the loader and all i have on the 3 point is a quick hitch.
the loader should never pick the back up. the front is a different story. make sure your are angling it to the left for down pressure. my l3091 will lift the front at least 8 inches
People forget these are tractors, that are built like tractors. They are not construction equipment. A job that a skid steer or small high lift will do without breaking a sweat can easily damage a tractor.
Agree. So many people are buying tractors for all the wrong reasons. They don't know what they bought is designed for and use them in applications they really are not meant to do full time.
I've a friend who has bought a small farm tractor with a backhoe that is using this thing like it were a full sized backhoe. He's running it just about everyday for septic jobs to concrete busting. He has blown, bent, and ripped so many parts off this little tractor that his dealership voided his warranty. He has put nearly 450 hours on this thing in two years.
A small compact tractor is not designed for this abuse. Sure, he brags that it can do it but I will have mine in ten years. He will not.
You forgot to include the link for this pressure gauge. I would like to check, not increase my pressure. You obviously bought one.
Don't you need to have the hydraulics doing work to make pressure? What is limiting the flow to cause pressure in your setup there?
The pressure gauge is blocking 100 percent of the flow in that circuit
Set it where you want to. Max it out. Just don't overload your front axle. Kubota and other manufacturers should have max lift capacities UNDER the maximum front axle capacity at the max hydraulic pressure. Most damage to FEL's and front axles are due to operator error. A FEL is not a bulldozer.
My 4701 can't lift and curl at the same time any clue what it might be
Do you have your throttle turned up, three quarters or more?
@Messick's Equipment yes 2000 to 2200 doesn't make any difference
Will putting the shims into it to bring it up to specs solve the problem or would it be something else
Look at some of other videos bud. Like lifting a skid full of firewood after shimming or couldn’t lift it before
Some people have to know that it's not the machine that is the problem. The problem is between the seat and the controls!
Shimming your hydraulics COULD void your warranty. i checked mine with a good oil filled analog gauge and it was spot on. Your tractor was designed by the factory to lift X amount of weight, you want to lift more? GET a different tractor.
600 psi is a good jump. On an LA525 loader. That what 20 percent you are talking 200 pounds of lift.
Not sure that buffs results showed what you tried to make them out as. Your talking about a 16lb increase. Biffs looking at 150lbs
He started with the loader way out of spec. The point is the relationship between pressure and capacity.
How can you talk about hydraulic force and not mention Pascal. PA=f and I'm an electrical engineer
Thank you for this great informational video. I wondered how much the shim kit actually did. Far from worth the effort and money I think.
Doing something like this will void the tractor's warranty as well correct?
Correct. Anything done to the hydraulic system above what came from the factory will void the warranty
if the adjustment causes a failure, yes.
@@jerrelllott6885 That's not true brother. You may have worded your comment wrong though . There is several things you can to to a hydraulic system that will not void anything
@@rickywoods3101 i was just going by what I was told at the dealer. Then again it may have been that they did not want to do the work I wanted them to do. I had some trouble with them while they had my tractor and had to throw a fit to get my work done
You can't really say that the shims aren't worth the money, as they cost LESS than 50 cents each. As far as effort, it takes about 5-10 minutes to complete this change.
The shim kits are a scam. the gauges can be had for less than $30 and the shims are a couple bucks a pack and some dealers will just give you a shim or two if they have an open pack on hand and you don't need a full bag. I do agree the pressure relief spring does weaken over time if you are constantly riding the relief valve which I have had a BX that over a few years of hard use it did start lacking on performance but I didnt buy into the shim thing I replaced my relief spring and put back in the shims that came from factory and it was back to where it was when tractor was new. I believe replacing spring or valve is the right way not shimming a weakened spring cause where does the shimming stop when the spring is completely compressed and you're blowing things apart. The shim kits are being sold for $60- $100 for $30 worth of stuff that doesn't fix anything.
What about adjusting the relief valve on the loader. I have a m7060 and the hydraulics flow through the relief valve every time I have a good bucket full of dirt and does not want to lift it above about 4 feet. Will adjusting the relief valve setting let the loader lift what I need it to
There is a power\height hole on your loader, do you have it in the power position?
@@MessicksEquip yes I have it in the lower hole. I had it at the dealership ship and asked if they could check it and adjust it if needed but I was told it would void my warranty
No harm in checking it if it feels off. That's a very capable tractor.
My B2601 can do amazing amount of work & lift INSANE amounts right from the factory; no need to raise the pressure!
But if it was a BX you’d be looking for a little more
@@dngendron Yeah, for sure. I always thought the BX was just a tad too small for us, and was very glad we got our brand new B2601 complete with backhoe, wider bucket, quick-attach, and forks all for about the MSRP of a BX! :)
I shimmed my pressure on my 2601 and could tell the difference. It was low from the factory.
So Neil as a dealer where is your tester at why did you go to Chinamart and buy one?
The way I end up tossing this stuff around, I don't want a good tool.
Thanks for your viewpoint. One of my coworkers did get a massive improvement from using one of these kits because he was a LOT more than 2% below spec.
Being a big dealership, I am curious if you could share an estimate of how many Kubotas Messicks has serviced that were significantly below spec?
I'm sure it's happened, in my memory I can't ever remember testing one where the customer had performance problems and finding hydraulic pressure to be the root cause.
My tractor BX23s was completely gutless and would barely break ground with the hoe. I tested it and it was 1640psi verified on two gages. I bumped it to 1950 psi and am now satisfied. I only have an 1.5 acres so I bought the smaller tractor but I probably should have gone with a B series. We’ll see how it does with snow removal.