As a former firefighter. I am satisfied with what they are doing. If they put a realistic level of smoke into the game, then it would be very hard to see, which is also realistic but less fun. I think the smartest thing to do is vent the compartment. This would vent the oxygen, smoke, and heat. Opening the door would also open access to enemies which could create a tactical layer as well. I am so excited for repair as I see myself channeling my inner Scotty and repairing battle damage like a miracle worker.
They are going above and beyond on fire than I expected and I love it this is exactly what I want. They have mentioned zero g fire in the future and really cool smoke.
I'm glad they clarified the depiction of smokeless fires in the ISC as inaccurate simply because smoke wasn't quite ready for prime time. Now I hope that when room-venting is introduced, we will actually see the smoke get sucked out of the room as it would happen in real life - violently, and potentially taking other small objects with it (force-reaction updates, perhaps?).
To be fair, the pressure difference between the inside and outside is one atmosphere. Unless you are next to a door or airlock as it opens, I would expect the force to be more 'knock you over' than 'send you flying' - most of the ship will experience a stiff breeze rather than a hurricane. The larger volumes of air will be in landing bays or cargo bays, places with huge doors that spread that force over a wide area. The kind of explosive decompression most people imagine needs you to be standing between a large area full of air and one of the exits. So, the entry corridors for the 890 Jump, for example. The 890 would be more likely to open a lot of vents in the atrium area and diffuse the resulting winds across the whole space; the worst risk in that case would be getting pulled against a vent and suffering the equivalent of a bad hickey. And then suffocating slowly because there is no air in the room...
Smoke should get into the life support system as well, probably get filtered until there's too much then oxygen output starts decreasing because the system is clogged.
I'll be honest, when I watched the fire ISC, I actually hadn't put too much thought into why I wasn't seeing any smoke. I figured they'd explain it away as their space-materials being super clean burning to keep performance. But, Star Citizen does like impacting performance for pretty, so I should have known better. But I hadn't thought about the zero-g stuff! Could be really fun.
I’ve always wear a suit and helmet because I’ve been caught out either forgetting my helmet and walking into vacuum or random vacuum inside. I was hoping to be able to live in vacuum and turning it on when needed.
Thanks for a great vid, Ray! I enjoyed the CIG vid and understood that it was still a WIP. I have to admit that I didn't think too much about the lack of smoke until you pointed it out. I love how, in contrast to other threads, your comment section seems to have a lot of current and former firefighters... and _their_ opinion seems pretty positive. I hope CIG has firefighters in their circles to keep up its level of verisimilitude.
Having dynamic smoke in the environments will be something to see. Hopefully they've also gotten things better optimized for Vulkan so that it won't just be something people turn off for a competitive advantage to boost their FPS and see better.
As an actual firefighter I look forward to this gameplay. Seeing smoke behavior live and accurately we hope. Looking forward to seeing smoke bank down from the ceiling or travel down the halway. Also, going to be interesting when everyone just opts to vent out the oxygen, then start life support too soon introducing oxygen back into a hot envioronment, only to see the compartment catch fire again.
Oh yes. People think of space as cold, but no air means nowhere for that remaining heat to go. I suppose you might have to spray down the inside with something that can absorb the heat and then dissipate. That's physics though; I was more biochemistry, so I am just making educated guesses...
Given that each ship has a standardised layout, we should be able to use some sort of AR overlay to navigate. It would still be terrifying every time you get close enough to detect a body or a bit of detritus though.
Been saying that about fire in zero G on the forums for years - i.e. if you turn off the gravity and air circulation then it will choke itself. Fire in zero-G also *looks* weird due to the lack of 'up' ... and of course in different gravities it will behave differently too. Personally I think ships would be constructed out of the most fire-retardant materials available and the 'wildfire' effect would be extremely rare unless you're carrying flammable cargo. I'm glad they did clarify the smoke issue - mainly because smoke should be in certain cases (wrt. engineering / repair gameplay) a useful precursor warning that a fire is about to break out.
Lando allready said that the surfaces won't catch fire very easy ... the parts that were shown when player is shooting is only the last few seconds before ignition. It takes a lot longer , depending of material, to ignite those surfaces.
As long as life support is working there will probably also be air circulation which will keep the flame alive. Like at the ISS (where they really don't want any flames or even anything flammable).
Smoke will make the firefighting so much harder than it already will be, I am thinking in all but the smallest fires venting the room to space will be the only real suppression option, or, turning off the gravity if that works.
I am torn on the smoke. Yes, thick smoke would be realistic, but it would also be blinding to most vision types. Basic human sight would see nothing but black, thermal vision would see nothing but hot, radar / lidar would see nothing but smoke. On the other hand, the interior of the ships is likely a fixed design, so you would be navigating by some sort of wireframe overlay that only shows walls and doors. Any damage, any people, any random debris would just suddenly come out of the smoke six inches from your face. Maybe players will be marked with a general transponder code that tells you where the back of their neck is or something.
I do hope they do not make the smoke effects too realistic. Having been in this situation, yes it is absolutely terrifying, but it is also absolutely zero visibility.
Now you have me wondering how smoke would behave if under the effect of a gravity generator that keeps getting toggled on and off. I'm leaning towards it would largely stay put and have both states co-exist rather than transitioning in reaction to the gravity shifting.
There's a spectrum dev response about this maybe not in time for your editing - they don't have smoke and fire in 0 G partially because of this. But also... a life support system will continue feeding it with oxygen. Either way, gameplay wise I like the idea that fire will go out once gravity dies.
If you r ship is on fire ... run like smoke and oakum. But watch out for those griefers , playing smoke and mirrors with the devs. I just love the concept of fire in 0-G I really hope they find a good balance between realism and fun. for all the aspects of the game. I don't mind the risk of pirates (pvp'ers) but I would mind if they could block me from playing the game or having fun.
I really want to see how CIG handles smoke and fire in zero gravity...your redice to smoldering would work but then thst becomes a stopgap unless if gravity is tirned off long enough gor the fire to go out instead of just almost hibernating.
I don’t know what kind of smoke you inhaled but I think there’s much more flawed with fire and gravity in SC: the propagation of fire, the direction of flames and the dripping of them, just to name a few. Cool game mechanic though!
I'm glad they got the smoke in, but I'm a bit concerned that they're making the fires way too easy to start (e.g. every time even on metal surfaces with frag grenades or small arms fire). It takes a lot to get fires going on most materials, and especially with the materials future spaceships would be built with. It feels like they just didn't have any other ideas for emergency malfunctions for engineering crews to deal with (to be fair, tracking down the parasitic load draining your systems isn't likely to be engaging gameplay). Oh, and the people who don't exist at CIG or in Evocati you think are missing are QA testers. Good QA testers are worth their weight in gold for exactly this sort of reason and no amount of player testing will find issues like these until it's too late. CIG might be skimping on this a bit (most software developers do) and hoping that the players and "it's an alpha" can pick up the slack.
Im all for the smoke mess and obscurity. We haven't seen much of that in SC yet. Flashlights will be useless and some other form may excel (FLIR, SWIR, etc)
I dont think a realistic amount of smoke should be aimed for or you wont be able to see a thing within seconds of a fire, I think if we can see just enough to navigate slowly and have enough visibility that we could at least find the fire to fight. Honestly i dont really care how fire acts in zero G because its not hugely intuitive and therefore wont break my immersions if it doesn't act realistically
I wonder if fire will count on those destroy the drug missions? If so will removing the helmet be a good idea (or not) as the the smoke may or may not have welcome side effects - lol.
There is no point about the fire subject, apart trying convey some hype and to introduce some clumbsy gameplay. Engineering is reduced to minigame with a handfull of fuses, and now small fire extinguishers to squash burning materials ignited by bullets in the 29th century. SC is just series of physical aberrations. But i guess it's alright, because It's supposed to be a game. errr ... a perpetual unfinished game. A perpetual introduction of place holders. The more the years passes, the more i doubt the devs have a serious vision of the game and how to play it.
You know what Ray. To me you come across as someone who can't enjoy anything. You always have to find fault and come with "suggestions" always... You always have to give a lecture on how to "improve". Like a well actually, person in every conversation
There is one huge flaw in your logic. And that is I love thinking about how to turn good things into great things. So far from not enjoying things, this is how I enjoy them. And this is a very typical attitude from someone who has been an architect. Irredeemable crappy things have little interest to me. Neither does being constantly salty like some folks or knee jerk fan boys like others.
As a former firefighter. I am satisfied with what they are doing. If they put a realistic level of smoke into the game, then it would be very hard to see, which is also realistic but less fun. I think the smartest thing to do is vent the compartment. This would vent the oxygen, smoke, and heat. Opening the door would also open access to enemies which could create a tactical layer as well. I am so excited for repair as I see myself channeling my inner Scotty and repairing battle damage like a miracle worker.
They are going above and beyond on fire than I expected and I love it this is exactly what I want. They have mentioned zero g fire in the future and really cool smoke.
THANK YOU Ray. finally an educated man. i was a Navy Fire Fighter for 15 yrs. these trolls that put out videos on fire in metal ships are killing me.
if they saw what happened to paint coated surface or a empty gallon plastic bottle in fire.
Even as a clueless spectator they killed me. People need to crack open some WWII history books at the very least.
I look forward to seeing the smoke on live. Also, they addressed the zero-g thing on spectrum
Can you link the thread/post?
I'm glad they clarified the depiction of smokeless fires in the ISC as inaccurate simply because smoke wasn't quite ready for prime time. Now I hope that when room-venting is introduced, we will actually see the smoke get sucked out of the room as it would happen in real life - violently, and potentially taking other small objects with it (force-reaction updates, perhaps?).
I wonder if people without proper undersuits with fuel will also get sucked outo f the ship?
To be fair, the pressure difference between the inside and outside is one atmosphere. Unless you are next to a door or airlock as it opens, I would expect the force to be more 'knock you over' than 'send you flying' - most of the ship will experience a stiff breeze rather than a hurricane.
The larger volumes of air will be in landing bays or cargo bays, places with huge doors that spread that force over a wide area. The kind of explosive decompression most people imagine needs you to be standing between a large area full of air and one of the exits. So, the entry corridors for the 890 Jump, for example. The 890 would be more likely to open a lot of vents in the atrium area and diffuse the resulting winds across the whole space; the worst risk in that case would be getting pulled against a vent and suffering the equivalent of a bad hickey. And then suffocating slowly because there is no air in the room...
Smoke should get into the life support system as well, probably get filtered until there's too much then oxygen output starts decreasing because the system is clogged.
I'll be honest, when I watched the fire ISC, I actually hadn't put too much thought into why I wasn't seeing any smoke. I figured they'd explain it away as their space-materials being super clean burning to keep performance. But, Star Citizen does like impacting performance for pretty, so I should have known better. But I hadn't thought about the zero-g stuff! Could be really fun.
I think zero-g smoke would be really really cool to see along with the zero g smoulder state.
I’ve always wear a suit and helmet because I’ve been caught out either forgetting my helmet and walking into vacuum or random vacuum inside. I was hoping to be able to live in vacuum and turning it on when needed.
Thanks for a great vid, Ray! I enjoyed the CIG vid and understood that it was still a WIP. I have to admit that I didn't think too much about the lack of smoke until you pointed it out. I love how, in contrast to other threads, your comment section seems to have a lot of current and former firefighters... and _their_ opinion seems pretty positive. I hope CIG has firefighters in their circles to keep up its level of verisimilitude.
Having dynamic smoke in the environments will be something to see. Hopefully they've also gotten things better optimized for Vulkan so that it won't just be something people turn off for a competitive advantage to boost their FPS and see better.
More smoke in the ship alongside the fire and loud noises, flashing lights etc. will really make dealing with fire an experience.
As an actual firefighter I look forward to this gameplay. Seeing smoke behavior live and accurately we hope. Looking forward to seeing smoke bank down from the ceiling or travel down the halway. Also, going to be interesting when everyone just opts to vent out the oxygen, then start life support too soon introducing oxygen back into a hot envioronment, only to see the compartment catch fire again.
Oh yes. People think of space as cold, but no air means nowhere for that remaining heat to go. I suppose you might have to spray down the inside with something that can absorb the heat and then dissipate. That's physics though; I was more biochemistry, so I am just making educated guesses...
I am fine with them having fire as it is currently portrayed.
Any realistic level of smoke would be blinding.
Given that each ship has a standardised layout, we should be able to use some sort of AR overlay to navigate. It would still be terrifying every time you get close enough to detect a body or a bit of detritus though.
Been saying that about fire in zero G on the forums for years - i.e. if you turn off the gravity and air circulation then it will choke itself. Fire in zero-G also *looks* weird due to the lack of 'up' ... and of course in different gravities it will behave differently too. Personally I think ships would be constructed out of the most fire-retardant materials available and the 'wildfire' effect would be extremely rare unless you're carrying flammable cargo. I'm glad they did clarify the smoke issue - mainly because smoke should be in certain cases (wrt. engineering / repair gameplay) a useful precursor warning that a fire is about to break out.
Lando allready said that the surfaces won't catch fire very easy ... the parts that were shown when player is shooting is only the last few seconds before ignition. It takes a lot longer , depending of material, to ignite those surfaces.
Smoke could be awesome to really drive the panic and desorientation during a ship fire.
As long as life support is working there will probably also be air circulation which will keep the flame alive. Like at the ISS (where they really don't want any flames or even anything flammable).
Looking forward to seeing what the smoke looks like in game... well, at least once anyways.
I'm looking forward to seeing how NPC's deal with fire and smoke.
Smoke um if you got um! The smoking lamp is lit.
It's and all smoke and mirrors!
Keep up the great work!
I never thought about how fire and smoke behaves in zero g tbh.
Smoke will make the firefighting so much harder than it already will be, I am thinking in all but the smallest fires venting the room to space will be the only real suppression option, or, turning off the gravity if that works.
I am torn on the smoke. Yes, thick smoke would be realistic, but it would also be blinding to most vision types. Basic human sight would see nothing but black, thermal vision would see nothing but hot, radar / lidar would see nothing but smoke.
On the other hand, the interior of the ships is likely a fixed design, so you would be navigating by some sort of wireframe overlay that only shows walls and doors. Any damage, any people, any random debris would just suddenly come out of the smoke six inches from your face. Maybe players will be marked with a general transponder code that tells you where the back of their neck is or something.
I do hope they do not make the smoke effects too realistic. Having been in this situation, yes it is absolutely terrifying, but it is also absolutely zero visibility.
the specs, the specs the specs are on fire! Smoke em if you got em
The fire and smoke gonna be cool
I am very interested to see this in a zero-g environment and how they tackle the issue. Smoke me up baby
Now you have me wondering how smoke would behave if under the effect of a gravity generator that keeps getting toggled on and off. I'm leaning towards it would largely stay put and have both states co-exist rather than transitioning in reaction to the gravity shifting.
We do have spacesuits on that can handle extreme temperatures Ray.
It’s a shame the smoke will obscure the flame effects - they look wonderful!
You better know your ship like your pocket, when everything is going to be full of smoke.
hope the smoke isn't just visual but also allows for asphyxiation
There's a spectrum dev response about this maybe not in time for your editing - they don't have smoke and fire in 0 G partially because of this. But also... a life support system will continue feeding it with oxygen. Either way, gameplay wise I like the idea that fire will go out once gravity dies.
One of the things ima try to test is if shooting from a vehicle inside the carracks front rear hangar actually can damage people in the jump point
If you r ship is on fire ... run like smoke and oakum. But watch out for those griefers , playing smoke and mirrors with the devs. I just love the concept of fire in 0-G I really hope they find a good balance between realism and fun. for all the aspects of the game. I don't mind the risk of pirates (pvp'ers) but I would mind if they could block me from playing the game or having fun.
I really want to see how CIG handles smoke and fire in zero gravity...your redice to smoldering would work but then thst becomes a stopgap unless if gravity is tirned off long enough gor the fire to go out instead of just almost hibernating.
I don’t know what kind of smoke you inhaled but I think there’s much more flawed with fire and gravity in SC: the propagation of fire, the direction of flames and the dripping of them, just to name a few.
Cool game mechanic though!
I have to say that the fire looks good. Will it all work, we shall see.
I'm glad they got the smoke in, but I'm a bit concerned that they're making the fires way too easy to start (e.g. every time even on metal surfaces with frag grenades or small arms fire). It takes a lot to get fires going on most materials, and especially with the materials future spaceships would be built with. It feels like they just didn't have any other ideas for emergency malfunctions for engineering crews to deal with (to be fair, tracking down the parasitic load draining your systems isn't likely to be engaging gameplay).
Oh, and the people who don't exist at CIG or in Evocati you think are missing are QA testers. Good QA testers are worth their weight in gold for exactly this sort of reason and no amount of player testing will find issues like these until it's too late. CIG might be skimping on this a bit (most software developers do) and hoping that the players and "it's an alpha" can pick up the slack.
Im all for the smoke mess and obscurity. We haven't seen much of that in SC yet. Flashlights will be useless and some other form may excel (FLIR, SWIR, etc)
Smoke scares me more than the fire, I have to admit. I can already barely see anything in the game as it is.
I dont think a realistic amount of smoke should be aimed for or you wont be able to see a thing within seconds of a fire, I think if we can see just enough to navigate slowly and have enough visibility that we could at least find the fire to fight. Honestly i dont really care how fire acts in zero G because its not hugely intuitive and therefore wont break my immersions if it doesn't act realistically
Actually in zero g a bigger fire would create air currents that would help feed the fire.
Heat would cause air to expand but just in an outward direction. Nothing to bring the sunburnt air in.
This video is smoking hot and lit. Smoke and a pancake?
I wonder if fire will count on those destroy the drug missions? If so will removing the helmet be a good idea (or not) as the the smoke may or may not have welcome side effects - lol.
Here's hoping player cooperation is enough to smoke out players that just want to break the game.
I am wondering how the smoke will be implemented when the fire system goes live
They should make your character cough in heavy smoke.
I do wonder how much smoke they will put in there ^^
There is no point about the fire subject, apart trying convey some hype and to introduce some clumbsy gameplay.
Engineering is reduced to minigame with a handfull of fuses, and now small fire extinguishers to squash burning materials ignited by bullets in the 29th century.
SC is just series of physical aberrations. But i guess it's alright, because It's supposed to be a game. errr ... a perpetual unfinished game. A perpetual introduction of place holders.
The more the years passes, the more i doubt the devs have a serious vision of the game and how to play it.
This video is SMOKE ing lol
Lots of Smoke.
You know what Ray. To me you come across as someone who can't enjoy anything. You always have to find fault and come with "suggestions" always... You always have to give a lecture on how to "improve". Like a well actually, person in every conversation
You're NOT in casual conversation with him. You're in the comments of his focused content. 🤨
@@LucidStrike 100% agree, we are in the comments section 👍👍
There is one huge flaw in your logic. And that is I love thinking about how to turn good things into great things. So far from not enjoying things, this is how I enjoy them. And this is a very typical attitude from someone who has been an architect. Irredeemable crappy things have little interest to me. Neither does being constantly salty like some folks or knee jerk fan boys like others.
Think the will given refunds to people who feel in safe to go there cuz of recent events… I mean if it’s even standing still at that point lol😅