Mad dog corrected Stephen A that Yvonne Goolagong won a championship while pregnant - she actually lost in the final of the US Open to Chris Evert when she was pregnant in 1976
167 single titles 177 double tiltes. Won 1442 games out of 1661 in singles. Won 747 games out of 890 in doubles. I love Serena but Martina played way more and won way more
She won more only because she played more. Which she lost more. If Serena played that amount she would shatter those numbers. Just because u play longer doesn’t make u better
Mad Dogg says some outrageous things sometimes but if I'm being honest it's nice to have someone on these shows who actually have full knowledge of sports like he doesn't fall into recency bias he actually have great knowledge he has me interested in this show again
He has a full knowledge of tennis?! Who on tour plays serve and volley now which was Martina 's game. Players stroke the ball too hard now. Martina would get pass left and right
@@conradchandler508 Not only that, but neither one of these 2 seem to have any recognition of just how tough Serena’s multiple rivals have been over the years, which make Serena even greater: Hingis, V.Williams, Clijsters, Henin, Sharapova, Davenport, Azarenka…all from different eras of tennis, all Grand Slam tourney winners in their own right, all with their own formidable games to oppose hers…and Serena just kept on winning.
Well he was wrong saying that Evonne Goolagong won a championship while pregnant. You've got to fact check these morons. Goolagong won "POST" Pregnancy, not while pregnant. So Russo in my opinion is taking advantage of the lack of knowledge of Stephen A. Smith, which is totally dishonesty to win a point, and leading others who don't know and who don't fact check his BS.
0:53, In my opinion Mad Dog Russo is the greatest sports talk show host of all time. He has knowledge of all sports and knows the history of the respective sports also. And he always allows fans to call his show to talk to him, argue, disagree, agree, have fun with it. He was rightfully inducted into the Radio Hall of Fame this year. And he and Stephen A. are great together on First Take.
@@andrewbathish9265 He talks about the great players from the past. That's the history element he brings. I don't know some of those players he mentions too🤣😂But I like that he brings different historic takes to the debate. I like getting everyone's takes on stuff rather than being stuck with a one sided position.
Bro when’s Molly gonna understand that she’s got there to debate she’s there to moderate why can’t first take replace her with someone who dosent interupt every five seconds
Ok sexist smh. I dont see anybody getting mad at Greeny when he debates while being a moderator. Hes on a multitude of shows too. Max is the moderator on KJM and nobody gets mad at him for debating. Its only Molly and the only reason for this is because you guys are sexist bigots.
I have been a Serena fan since the 2000s when I started watching tennis, I didn’t know steffi graf won 22 slams by the age of 30 when she retired. And when she retired she was ranked #3. If we want to go by numbers then Serena gets it but men when I saw that little stat nobody is mentioning I was blown away. Love Serena but felt like winning that many titles by 30 is kinda crazy.
True that 22 is a short space of time is crazy but dont forget to factor in number of injuries which can affect how many slams you can get within a time frame. The fact that Serena was dominant in both her 20s and 30s when most women are dominant on their 20s says a lot about perseverance, longevity and returning from injury.
Before the stabbing, Seles was the best woman iv ever seen. She was totaly dominant in the most stacked era of womens tennis. She hit the ball harder than Serena!
As a huge tennis fan, Russo is so right here and I'm really happy to see someone in US media actually respect history. Serena is 'one of the goats' in singles women's tennis, but she's not clear in front at all- if anything behind Graf and Navratilova. As a person even less deserving of the 'greatness' moniker.
No lie, when they pulled up Martina’s records, I was like WHOA!! But, I’m asking a true honest question, would this be similar as MJ 6 rings and/Or Kareem and B. Russell.?? MJ dominated and elevated, but times were “different” back then
Tennis is not a team sport g. Everything martina did, she did it by herself. Your analogy don’t make no sense for me because nba players can play bad and their teams can still win the chip
In sports, if fans and analysts don't respect the competition, they don't respect the accomplishments and unfortunately, this is what will hurt Serenas legacy the most. Her level of competition just wasn't up to par with players 10-20 years prior. Martina however did it against some of the best women's tennis players ever. That makes her accomplishments a little more impressive in my eyes.
To be fair 1 on 1 sports are much more dependent on individual talent so level of competition is emphasized. NBA is much more based on individuals than NFL though.
I go even better why doesn't mad dog and people of his ilk who look like him who talk like him who think like him don't bring up the competition issue when it comes to babe Ruth the best players back then were in The Negro leaves but because of racist America they weren't allowed to compete so babe Ruth played against a bunch of mechanics plumbers and bartenders yet they keep trying to say he was the greatest I beg to differ
Serena, Lewis Hamilton and Tiger Woods had it different. All dominated in sports not specifically traditionally tailored as a top sport for POC. THEY ELEVATED IN WAYS UNEXPECTED. 👑👑👑
It’s a tough call. You do this with every sport and they all say there’s no way to compare. Even the equipment used now is far superior and enhances Serena’s physical strength which his clearly her advantage. Would love to have seen Martina use the racquets they do now.
Martina was a serve and Volley player who would get destroyed. Serena competition is Graft, Hingis, Seles (not counting titles). Henin gives her fit as well. Martina the Pete Sampras of women tennis who relied heavily on their 1st serve in
Before I watched this segment, I was like, "This is a no-brainer. Serena is the GOAT of women's tennis! It ain't debatable." However, Mad Dog articulated a very strong argument for why it IS arguable, and why Martina Navratilova could be the GOAT......
Mad dogg is right. The one thing most people can't argue against is that there has been a lack of consistent top tennis players in the women's circuit (outside of the Williams) for a while now. Personally Steffi Graff is still my favourite but I also wouldn't rule Navratilova purely because of her longevity.
Did you look at the matches played too and the win/loss ratio It’s expected if you played over 1,500 single matches (compared to someone that just played over a thousand), you’d win considerably more titles than them.
@@thompsongayejr6725 even if you take into account how difference in games, Martina has huge advantage. if we use math: if Serena had played as much as Martina played she would have won 115 titles(with his games-title ratio) compared to 167 Martina's titles, so it's not even comparable.
I like to have a Mt Rushmore for each sport type because they’re all different with separate standards. Team, Solo, Motor, Combat, etc. But she’d be on the woman’s, idk about overall solo. My lists would be Team: Jordan, Gretzky, Maradonna, Messi Solo: Woods, Nadal, Federer, Nicklaus Olympic: Bolt, Phelps, Owens, Biles Combat: Ali, Tyson, Jones, Medved Motor: Petty, Earnhardt, Johnson, Hamilton
@Raul I didn’t add any Gridiron Ball 🏈 players to the Mt Rushmore bc they don’t have the global impact. And it’s more of a team game than players game. They have like 50 players on a roster and a bunch of different roles. There’s no Messi or Jordan esque players bc you can only do specific things to help your team and can’t play defense/offense.
Sir Don Bradman, without a shadow of a doubt walks in mount rushmore of any team sport. Its not even subjective, his impact on cricket is far, far greater than sportsman in their respective sport. I would highly recommend you to read about him, he was amazing.
To give some context, a hall of fame cricketer would average between 50-60 run per innings (and I am talking about the greatest cricketers in the history of the game). Bradman averaged 99.93 runs per innings. For comparison, it would be like MJ averaging around 50 ppg, for his CAREER.
If like Smith says she has a level of dominance that she has no peers.Then why did it take Serena 11 more grand slams to reach Steffi's GS total ? This so called most dominant,undisputed GOAT (In people like Smith's eyes) has one more GS than Steffi but played in 27 more of them.🤔
Serena dominated her era and went through different social issues too. She can easily be considered the GOAT. Martina didn’t dominate her era but she won grand slams in doubles and mixed doubles too. She also went through some social issues too. There is no question either one can be considered the GOAT
Agreed, but the thing is that’s only about half the sports that should be included. That’s the major flaw in the “Mt Rushmore” argument. There’s way too many sports to just pick 4. No matter which 4 you pick it’s always gonna look incomplete.
Roger Federer won 30 more titles then her and he's not even brought up in the same light. He had to compete against Nadal and Djokovich, while Serena never had a real rival other than her sister.
@@lexis4490 I guess you're unfamiliar with the term Mount Rushmore of sports. It should be mount Rushmore of women's sports, and even in that discussion Steffi Graf is a better women's tennis player than her.
Graf retired on top. She still could have played a few more years and won more grand slam titles but decided to retire and be a mom/wife. I’d put Serena on Mt. Rushmore of women’s tennis but of all sports? That’s a hard no.
Graf was definitely the more dominant of the 3. She won all of her majors by 29-30. Martina played a lot more and was the most durable but they also didn't focus on just the 4 majors back then like they do now and both the men and women frequently skipped the Aussie and French especially the Aussie. Serena and Venus used to skip a lot of tournaments and just focus on majors.
If Stephen meant the "Mt. Rushmore of Tennis", then yes, certainly Serena get her just due...but not on the "Mt. Rushmore of All Sports". To enshrine Serena on the "former" monument is righteous, and it also bolsters the point of both presenters here that there is some debate as to whom the GOAT title can be assigned. To carve out her likeness on the "latter" monument as one of four greatest athletes across all sports is problematic to say the least. The real Mt. Rushmore is reserved for people who have served the US as president (one "sport" or title); if we were to start including governors, senators, et. al. on that cliff-side wall, the result would be a dilution of the historic gravitas of said monument. Overall it's better to keep Serena's achievements, career, and legacy within the realm of tennis, and not worry about comparing her with other eras and/or (team) sports. Serena Williams place in sports history is secure, and that history will show that she made her place in the world through tennis.
I remember when Shannon Sharpe put Serena Williams and Michael Phelps over Michael Jordan, Muhammad Ali, and Tom Brady on the sports GOATs of Mount Rushmore... 🤣
I could understand putting them over Brady cause his lack of international popularity/impact, (These list are basically popularity contest cause all of these atheletes dominated their respective sports) but over Ali and Jordan is crazy.
In USA women’s tennis and soccer is so much more watchable and enjoyable than the men’s IMO. I worked for 3 weeks at US OPEN in NYC summer 2018. I became a BIG FAN since then. That’s when Osaka beat Williams in the finals. Been hooked ever since, can’t wait to go in a few weeks. One of the best sporting events in the WORLD! Energy is unmatched. Love the history behind tennis too.
That's just blasphemy, the men's team plays better than the women's football teams. The only reason the USA won so many women's world cup is cause the Europeans weren't serous with women's football and now that they are, be prepared to start losing like the men's team.
@@krces1 nope. Jordan was great for 6 years. All the other he lost , got swept in first round or ddnt make playoffs. Martina is tough call but Serena would had destroyed her. Too much power and speed.
Just like Montana and Brady , When Joe won 4 Super Bowls , there was no penalties for hitting low , helmet to helmet to protect the quarterback etc etc .... Brady would have not survived
Eeeeehhhh, I see what you are saying Dog, but put Serena to play against Martina, Steffi, and Monica. She would've smoked them all. And you know this! Her best opponent was Venus!!!
Serena had plenty of competition. Look at her H2H record vs Davenport, Venus, Henin, Clijsters, Capriati, and Hingis. Martina Navratilova, only had one major obstacle to face in grand slams and that was Chris Evert for most of her prime who wasn't nearly as good outside of clay. Serena is the GOAT and faced more tough competition while Navratilova faced the highest level because none of the girls Serena faced was as good as Chris Evert but trust me Serena would have mopped the floor with Evert.
The "Serena was so dominant, she made her competition look weak" is an illogical argument. It has been 23 years since she won her first grand slam. So, in that period, roughly 91 grand slams were there to be won and she won 23. There were 68 other slams and no one touched 10 in that period. Steffi Graf won 22 and retired at 30 and in a much shorter career was the number 1 ranked player for 377 compared to Serena's 309 which is more than a year more. And if you wanted to compare peaks, Steffi won at least one grand slam every year for 9 years straight in which she won at least 3 grand slams for 5 years, at least one grand slam on every surface for 4 years and won all 4 grand slams and the olympic gold in 1988, none of which Serena has been able to match. And by the way she had a better win percentage on every surface, every grand slam and every grand slam final. By what objective measure was Serena more dominant even with the lesser competition at the top?
Unquestionably Serena is the greatest of all time. The only thing she did not do was win the Calendar slam. However, She won the Serena Slam twice (that is 4 grand slams in a row twice). Both her and Venus showed their metal after they came back after a hiatus after the death of their sister. Serena also had her own near death experience, almost dying due to a pulmonary embolism and still coming back after that to the top of the sport. There will never be a more dominant Gold Medal Match than her thrashing of Sharapova at the London Olympics in 2012. She has won 10 grand slams post 30- which speaks to her longevity and dominance. Her and Venus have the most doubles slams on the female side. Venus and Serena have won the most Olympic medals jointly on the female side as well. She won a grand slam whilst pregnant. Since she came back after pregnancy no woman has made it to more slam finals than her. She has been written off so many times throughout her career and yet she has continually proved herself over and over again as the greatest of all time. That writing is on the wall. I don't think anyone will question whether Serena playing her best tennis would beat Graf playing her best tennis or Navratilova playing her best tennis. Unquestionably Serena at her best would have taken down all the legends of old. Let's see what the next generation can do, but let us give Serena the credit she is due, for overcoming so many obstacles to write the greatest story in female tennis of all time along with her sister Venus.
Mad dog keeps saying that serena wouldn't have won as much if she had to play against the same three or four women he keeps mentioning. Those women aren't winning as much if they had to face serena so that argument is a wash.
well she wouldnt have won as many if she went played the better competition.. and yes the others wouldnt have won as many either so not sure how that makes her superior
Mad Dog is totally wrong. Clearly Serena is the GOAT. Serena is the only player in her Era who was number 1 in her 30's for 186 weeks. There were at least two players during the early 80s who did that. Chris Everett and Martina. Also there were several women in the top 25 who were in their 30s. Billie Jean King was ranked 21 at age 37. There was never any woman in Serena's Era that was in their late 30s and ranked 21st in the world. The fact that Serena stood alone as the most dominant player in her 30s should be without question. As the game evolved, the players became younger and stronger. The level of competition has increases since the 1980s. If you look at the ranks at that time, you might recognize the first 8. After that, you may struggle to identify them. That certainly was not the case in Serena Williams time. Serena clearly played in a more physically competitive Era than Martina and Chris.
Serena Williams Tom Brady Kobe Bryant Lewis Hamilton Floyd money Mayweather and Tiger Woods are the greatest of this generation since the 2000’s hands down
Serena is the GOAT. Steffi, Martina, Etc are all-time greats but a class under Serena. Serena is unparalleled in how she dominated the sport. Serena (and Venus at one point) put tennis on the map and transcended the sport. Her longevity is first of its kind, winning so much before and after age 30. Added to that, she has the GS record of 23 singles, 14 doubles, and the career golden slam. Serena is the GOAT and one of the GREATEST athletes over across sports,
Serena was the best, however it’s tennis. Just like woods with golf or Phelps with swimming or JJ driving nascar, these sports figures go into a different category in my opinion.
Martina’s record not only eclipses Serena’s, she easily played in a much tougher and focused league than Serena did. It shouldn’t even be a question who’s the Goat of womens tennis. Martina destroys her
You can make an argument for any of the 3 Mad Dog mentioned (for me the only 3 real contenders), but I've never seen anyone be as dominant as Steffi Graf was at her best. The woman won 22 GS titles in 11 years and retired at 30!
The four greatest female tennis are Martina Navratilova, Serena Williams Steffi Graf and Monica Seles. Mad Dog makes a great point about Martina. We sometimes forget how great she was. She also started the power game ( not Steffi ). Who is the greatest?. I guess it depends on how YOU choose to measure greatness, Monica is on my list because of the eight majors she won by age nineteen.
The disrespect towards Justine Henin is once again incredible. Everybody who really watched tennis in the Zeroes knows that she was Serena her biggest rival. Much better than Seles ever was even before the tragedy she had to overcome.
@@jeroenwapenaar6428 I don’t see anyone disrespecting Justine at all. She was a great player and she gave Serena fits; but not including her in the top four is not disrespecting her at all. How many can be in the top four? If you see her as “greater” than Seles then that’s fine; others may not and their opinion should be respected as should yours.
@@light279 I was talking more about Russo en Stephen A in this case. Only mentioning Clijsters and not Henin who clearly was the better player in the majors. But indeed a little bit too sensitive on my part. :-)
I agree 100% with Mad dog on this one to me what puts Steffi Graf over Serena even though she has one less grand slam is the grand slam she won in one calendar year along with the Olympic gold and not to mention the way better competition she had to deal with ditto Martina.
One grand slam less than Serena only she actually won a grand slam and the Olympics in the same calendar year and had to deal with much tougher competition what is there not to understand. If you could give me a better argument than that then I will agree with you but I don’t think you could. You should know your history not just these times.
There are people like Lionel Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo (the clear best in the biggest Sport in the world). I know they are not getting mentioned by American Media but Stephan A. shouldn't just throw her into Mount Rushmore conversations. For me its Ronaldo, Jordan, Messi and Woods/Phelps/Brady.
Messi or cr7 cant be in this discussion, because u have to be the indisputed best player of your generation and then u have be the goat of your own sport by 70-80 % agreement. Neither messi or cr7 can claim that
Messi and Ronaldo played for the biggest teams in their respective leagues. Teams that won before and continue to win without them. The American athletes built their teams into champions. Some of those teams have done nothing since these players have retired or left for another team.
Sales wasn't really competition to Navratilova. Chris Evert was her only real true competitor and between them they were almost always in every GS final. That's down to their talent and hard work, but also due to a lack of depth in women's tennis at the time. Ditto with Graff, the one real competitor she faced would have eclipsed her, had it not been for the stabbing. For me, Serena is no doubt the greatest.
Zone defenses has basically made post players irrelevant. MJ would never be able to post up had zone existed in the 1990s. Illegal defense also had a strange ruling in the 90s.
Also, double-teaming wasn't as a prominent part of the game in the 90s. If you go back and watch a lot of Jordan games (not just his famous highlights), he's rarely double-teamed on the perimeter, often getting to do whatever he wanted 1-on-1, easily getting to his spots for his top-of-the-key jumper, baseline fadeaways, and blow-bys where he's going to finish at the rim. Kobe Bryant, who modeled almost his entire game after Jordan's, started to see the effects of modern defenses in the mid-to-late 2000s where he was ALWAYS double-teamed and sometimes triple-teamed... his percentages suffered because of it and I believe Jordan would have experienced similar outcomes had he played 20 years later. He still would have averaged 30 because he would have developed more of a 3-point game, but he wouldn't have shot 50% like he did for his entire career.
huh? we knew lebron was the best for a decade until he got old............ literally stopped giving him the mvp award on purpose so he couldnt catch MJ
To me it comes down to difficulty. Tennis is not comparable to Sports like Football or Basketball let alone Boxing or MMA. She's definitely the best female Tennis player but that doesnt mean she's a Top 4 athlete. Just like Tiger Woods for instance, let's just say he's the GOAT Golfer, that doesnt compare to Ali in Boxing, LT in Football & etc
Australian tennis player Margaret Court. She won 64 Grand Slam events (24 singles, 19 doubles, 21 mixed doubles), which is a record for a male or female player. Her 24 Grand Slam singles titles and 21 in mixed doubles are also all-time records for both sexes. She achieved a career Grand Slam in singles, doubles, and mixed doubles. She is one of three women to have achieved the calendar year Grand Slam in singles (alongside Steffi Graf and Maureen Connolly), and is the only woman to have achieved the mixed doubles Grand Slam, which she did twice. Court won more than half of the Grand Slam singles tournaments she played (24 of 47). She won 192 singles titles before and after the Open Era, an all-time record.[1] Her career singles win-loss record was 1,177-106, for a winning percentage of 91.74 percent on all surfaces (hard, clay, grass, carpet), is also an all-time record. She won at least 100 singles matches in 1965 (113-8), 1968 (107-12), 1969 (104-6),[2] 1970 (110-6),[3] and 1973 (108-6).[4] She won more than 80 percent of her singles matches against top 10 players (297-73) and was the year-end top ranked player seven times.
Serena is the Klitschko of women's tennis. Highly skilled dominant champion, physically superior, ruled her era, impressive record, longevity etc. But can't be considered the Goat because her era was simply not as difficult as that of Martina and Steffi. Let's not forget Steffi Graf retired at 30. Serena should have shattered the slams record given the above.
Seriously! Starting with Mad Dog conveniently leaving out the great SEVEN time grand slam champion Venus Williams because it didn't fit his weak era narrative. Also, if Seles had not been stabbed there is no way Graf ends up with 22 majors.
Comparing 23 titles is like saying brady is the goat because he has the most rings... and it is debatable. Montana would have something to say with his superb SB stats and record.
I need more of this!!! But Stephen A is absolutely right. What Serena AND Venus did for black women and even black men in tennis is just so amazing she has to be the greatest
Mount Rushmore of ALL sports is a laughably horrible take, and also in my opinion a Mount Rushmore of all sports sounds impossible to make an objective list
Someone should tell Molly to stop saying "yeah yeah", when it is not her turn to talk. It is really annoying. Can't they remove this in post processing?
Martina won 359 titles in singles, doubles, and mixed doubles. So overall in all aspects of tennis she would be the goat. In the end people only care about singles and that is what Serena focused on. Williams is the better singles player, but Martina is the better all-around player.
Mad dog corrected Stephen A that Yvonne Goolagong won a championship while pregnant - she actually lost in the final of the US Open to Chris Evert when she was pregnant in 1976
167 single titles 177 double tiltes. Won 1442 games out of 1661 in singles. Won 747 games out of 890 in doubles. I love Serena but Martina played way more and won way more
And graf had a better singles resume too. Margaret court too
Serena is clearly the greatest female tennis player ever.
@@ww8407 explain please?
@@ww8407No she's not. Martina Navratilova is.
She won more only because she played more. Which she lost more. If Serena played that amount she would shatter those numbers. Just because u play longer doesn’t make u better
Mad Dogg says some outrageous things sometimes but if I'm being honest it's nice to have someone on these shows who actually have full knowledge of sports like he doesn't fall into recency bias he actually have great knowledge he has me interested in this show again
Ye
Mad dog is a real sports host..he is a historian and knows all sports.
He has a full knowledge of tennis?! Who on tour plays serve and volley now which was Martina 's game. Players stroke the ball too hard now. Martina would get pass left and right
@@conradchandler508 Not only that, but neither one of these 2 seem to have any recognition of just how tough Serena’s multiple rivals have been over the years, which make Serena even greater: Hingis, V.Williams, Clijsters, Henin, Sharapova, Davenport, Azarenka…all from different eras of tennis, all Grand Slam tourney winners in their own right, all with their own formidable games to oppose hers…and Serena just kept on winning.
Well he was wrong saying that Evonne Goolagong won a championship while pregnant. You've got to fact check these morons. Goolagong won "POST" Pregnancy, not while pregnant. So Russo in my opinion is taking advantage of the lack of knowledge of Stephen A. Smith, which is totally dishonesty to win a point, and leading others who don't know and who don't fact check his BS.
0:53, In my opinion Mad Dog Russo is the greatest sports talk show host of all time. He has knowledge of all sports and knows the history of the respective sports also. And he always allows fans to call his show to talk to him, argue, disagree, agree, have fun with it. He was rightfully inducted into the Radio Hall of Fame this year. And he and Stephen A. are great together on First Take.
100
His tennis argument made me cream so hard
He has a lot of weak old head takes especially about basketball
@@andrewbathish9265 He talks about the great players from the past. That's the history element he brings. I don't know some of those players he mentions too🤣😂But I like that he brings different historic takes to the debate. I like getting everyone's takes on stuff rather than being stuck with a one sided position.
@@tony84. he said yesterday lebron wasn’t in his top 3 ever. He’s irrelevant after that take
Bro when’s Molly gonna understand that she’s got there to debate she’s there to moderate why can’t first take replace her with someone who dosent interupt every five seconds
Molly has her days she brings up good points
Ok sexist smh. I dont see anybody getting mad at Greeny when he debates while being a moderator. Hes on a multitude of shows too. Max is the moderator on KJM and nobody gets mad at him for debating. Its only Molly and the only reason for this is because you guys are sexist bigots.
I have been a Serena fan since the 2000s when I started watching tennis, I didn’t know steffi graf won 22 slams by the age of 30 when she retired. And when she retired she was ranked #3. If we want to go by numbers then Serena gets it but men when I saw that little stat nobody is mentioning I was blown away. Love Serena but felt like winning that many titles by 30 is kinda crazy.
For context steffi started earlier and was non stop once she started. Serena and Venus took breaks
True that 22 is a short space of time is crazy but dont forget to factor in number of injuries which can affect how many slams you can get within a time frame. The fact that Serena was dominant in both her 20s and 30s when most women are dominant on their 20s says a lot about perseverance, longevity and returning from injury.
Before the stabbing, Seles was the best woman iv ever seen. She was totaly dominant in the most stacked era of womens tennis. She hit the ball harder than Serena!
Mad dog just wiped the floor with these two, sheesh
It’s because those two don’t even watch tennis…..
As a huge tennis fan, Russo is so right here and I'm really happy to see someone in US media actually respect history. Serena is 'one of the goats' in singles women's tennis, but she's not clear in front at all- if anything behind Graf and Navratilova. As a person even less deserving of the 'greatness' moniker.
Good point but let's be honest. At their peak, let's say best 4 outta 7 tennis matches. Serena would beat Graf and Navrilova.
No lie, when they pulled up Martina’s records, I was like WHOA!! But, I’m asking a true honest question, would this be similar as MJ 6 rings and/Or Kareem and B. Russell.?? MJ dominated and elevated, but times were “different” back then
Tennis is not a team sport g. Everything martina did, she did it by herself. Your analogy don’t make no sense for me because nba players can play bad and their teams can still win the chip
@@gunman1714 what about her 177 double titles who she needed *HELP* to win??!
@@gunman1714 Except Bulls literally never won a chip if MJ played bad lmao
In sports, if fans and analysts don't respect the competition, they don't respect the accomplishments and unfortunately, this is what will hurt Serenas legacy the most. Her level of competition just wasn't up to par with players 10-20 years prior.
Martina however did it against some of the best women's tennis players ever. That makes her accomplishments a little more impressive in my eyes.
That's just an excuse to perpetuate a myth so Nike can sell more shoes.
I love how mad dog acknowledges better competition in this argument but fails to do this with nba and nfl
Because serena is a man you fools!
To be fair 1 on 1 sports are much more dependent on individual talent so level of competition is emphasized. NBA is much more based on individuals than NFL though.
@@brandonrawlsmusic just like you mom that’s crazy lol
Also no mention from these commentators about Serena's constant use of Therapeutic USE Expemptions. She's as dodgy as Lance Armstrong.
I go even better why doesn't mad dog and people of his ilk who look like him who talk like him who think like him don't bring up the competition issue when it comes to babe Ruth the best players back then were in The Negro leaves but because of racist America they weren't allowed to compete so babe Ruth played against a bunch of mechanics plumbers and bartenders yet they keep trying to say he was the greatest I beg to differ
Mad Dog Russo was the one bright spot of Max getting shifted off of First Take. He's such a passionate old-timer fan
Serena, Lewis Hamilton and Tiger Woods had it different. All dominated in sports not specifically traditionally tailored as a top sport for POC.
THEY ELEVATED IN WAYS UNEXPECTED. 👑👑👑
It’s a tough call. You do this with every sport and they all say there’s no way to compare. Even the equipment used now is far superior and enhances Serena’s physical strength which his clearly her advantage. Would love to have seen Martina use the racquets they do now.
She should also be in the Hall of Fame for rants on the courts.
@@HorsemanExtreme right next to johnny boy 🤣🤣
I got Steffi Graff> 22 and the golden slam, HUGE
She's for sure the goat of her era.
Feel bad for mad dog he’s gotta talk to ppl who don’t know nothing about the sport
Martina was a serve and Volley player who would get destroyed. Serena competition is Graft, Hingis, Seles (not counting titles). Henin gives her fit as well.
Martina the Pete Sampras of women tennis who relied heavily on their 1st serve in
Martina Navratilova is the best pound for pound women tennis player of all time
Stay off the weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed
I don’t care how much she weighs, Serena is rinsing her every time
Bro see the all around titles she won in tennis. You can't only count Grandslams. Every great athlete do not born in US only. Respect the body of work
Agreed. I'd also argue Martina's level of competition was a little more fierce than what Serena dealt with too.
@@Nothereman9999 difference of 94 singles titles and 153 doubles titles. I say again "DIFFERENCE"
its hard... gotta consider that graf retired 10 yrs younger and is only 1 grand slam behind serena... that's dominance
Before I watched this segment, I was like, "This is a no-brainer. Serena is the GOAT of women's tennis! It ain't debatable." However, Mad Dog articulated a very strong argument for why it IS arguable, and why Martina Navratilova could be the GOAT......
Stop
Mad dog got a strong argument he knows his tennis
Mad dogg is right. The one thing most people can't argue against is that there has been a lack of consistent top tennis players in the women's circuit (outside of the Williams) for a while now.
Personally Steffi Graff is still my favourite but I also wouldn't rule Navratilova purely because of her longevity.
After seeing Martina's enormous advantage in titles it's funny even to compare them.
Did you look at the matches played too and the win/loss ratio
It’s expected if you played over 1,500 single matches (compared to someone that just played over a thousand), you’d win considerably more titles than them.
@@thompsongayejr6725 even if you take into account how difference in games, Martina has huge advantage.
if we use math: if Serena had played as much as Martina played she would have won 115 titles(with his games-title ratio) compared to 167 Martina's titles, so it's not even comparable.
I like to have a Mt Rushmore for each sport type because they’re all different with separate standards. Team, Solo, Motor, Combat, etc. But she’d be on the woman’s, idk about overall solo. My lists would be
Team: Jordan, Gretzky, Maradonna, Messi
Solo: Woods, Nadal, Federer, Nicklaus
Olympic: Bolt, Phelps, Owens, Biles
Combat: Ali, Tyson, Jones, Medved
Motor: Petty, Earnhardt, Johnson, Hamilton
Really, no Schumacher. Like really, he's basically the MJ of Motorsports
@@rickyrickalvous2982
It was out of him and Hamilton for me.
@Raul
I didn’t add any Gridiron Ball 🏈 players to the Mt Rushmore bc they don’t have the global impact. And it’s more of a team game than players game. They have like 50 players on a roster and a bunch of different roles. There’s no Messi or Jordan esque players bc you can only do specific things to help your team and can’t play defense/offense.
Sir Don Bradman, without a shadow of a doubt walks in mount rushmore of any team sport. Its not even subjective, his impact on cricket is far, far greater than sportsman in their respective sport. I would highly recommend you to read about him, he was amazing.
To give some context, a hall of fame cricketer would average between 50-60 run per innings (and I am talking about the greatest cricketers in the history of the game). Bradman averaged 99.93 runs per innings. For comparison, it would be like MJ averaging around 50 ppg, for his CAREER.
If like Smith says she has a level of dominance that she has no peers.Then why did it take Serena 11 more grand slams to reach Steffi's GS total ? This so called most dominant,undisputed GOAT (In people like Smith's eyes) has one more GS than Steffi but played in 27 more of them.🤔
Not a single woman in the 80's could ever return Serena's serve. Not one.
So? This is not about comparing eras
Mad Dog whole argument is based on comparing eras lol
@@nanox4 So they could never beat her. That's the GOAT you clown.
Tennis is not all about serve though ...
Serena dominated her era and went through different social issues too. She can easily be considered the GOAT. Martina didn’t dominate her era but she won grand slams in doubles and mixed doubles too. She also went through some social issues too. There is no question either one can be considered the GOAT
They need to stop this, Martina will never be unseated, she's like the Wilt of women's tennis but with Bill Russell's championship record
Serena is definitely the goat. She’s being punished because she didn’t have other dominant competitors throughout her reign like what?
She also doesn’t have the most titles
Mad dog actually had some good and valid points
Jordan, Woods, Brady and Serena? I wouldn't hate it.
@@oneskillpoint4669 for the token female though
@@edgehead411 you can put Simon Biles for that
Agreed, but the thing is that’s only about half the sports that should be included. That’s the major flaw in the “Mt Rushmore” argument. There’s way too many sports to just pick 4. No matter which 4 you pick it’s always gonna look incomplete.
Pele, Maradona, Messi, Cristiano
Seles already had 8 grand slams before she turned 20. She was stabbed at age 19. She was never the same after that.
I agree...I am a Williams sister fan. Seles would literally beat opponents into the ground
Mad Dog is the man!!!
He is so knowledgeable!!!@@
Bro how tf do you look at Martina record and say it’s an argument. She eclipses Serena by a Mile an a half
Roger Federer won 30 more titles then her and he's not even brought up in the same light. He had to compete against Nadal and Djokovich, while Serena never had a real rival other than her sister.
She is not being compared to men.
@@lexis4490
I guess you're unfamiliar with the term Mount Rushmore of sports. It should be mount Rushmore of women's sports, and even in that discussion Steffi Graf is a better women's tennis player than her.
Graf retired on top. She still could have played a few more years and won more grand slam titles but decided to retire and be a mom/wife.
I’d put Serena on Mt. Rushmore of women’s tennis but of all sports? That’s a hard no.
She won a title while pregnant. SHE won way more then Gref. They aren't even comparative. Please be quiet for the love of God
cap, when last did she win anything?
@@stephenscott8632 Talk to this clown. She’s the GWOAT.
Graf was definitely the more dominant of the 3. She won all of her majors by 29-30. Martina played a lot more and was the most durable but they also didn't focus on just the 4 majors back then like they do now and both the men and women frequently skipped the Aussie and French especially the Aussie. Serena and Venus used to skip a lot of tournaments and just focus on majors.
How many majors would Graf have had if Seles had not been stabbed? Not 22, I am quite sure.
If Stephen meant the "Mt. Rushmore of Tennis", then yes, certainly Serena get her just due...but not on the "Mt. Rushmore of All Sports". To enshrine Serena on the "former" monument is righteous, and it also bolsters the point of both presenters here that there is some debate as to whom the GOAT title can be assigned. To carve out her likeness on the "latter" monument as one of four greatest athletes across all sports is problematic to say the least. The real Mt. Rushmore is reserved for people who have served the US as president (one "sport" or title); if we were to start including governors, senators, et. al. on that cliff-side wall, the result would be a dilution of the historic gravitas of said monument. Overall it's better to keep Serena's achievements, career, and legacy within the realm of tennis, and not worry about comparing her with other eras and/or (team) sports. Serena Williams place in sports history is secure, and that history will show that she made her place in the world through tennis.
I remember when Shannon Sharpe put Serena Williams and Michael Phelps over Michael Jordan, Muhammad Ali, and Tom Brady on the sports GOATs of Mount Rushmore... 🤣
I could understand putting them over Brady cause his lack of international popularity/impact, (These list are basically popularity contest cause all of these atheletes dominated their respective sports) but over Ali and Jordan is crazy.
I can see why he did. Its his list. International appeal and individual championships. Impact no. but i see why he did.
Phelps is having his records beat too lol
@@patrick553 Phelps' records are being beat by one person?
serena is a man you fools!
In USA women’s tennis and soccer is so much more watchable and enjoyable than the men’s IMO. I worked for 3 weeks at US OPEN in NYC summer 2018. I became a BIG FAN since then. That’s when Osaka beat Williams in the finals. Been hooked ever since, can’t wait to go in a few weeks. One of the best sporting events in the WORLD! Energy is unmatched. Love the history behind tennis too.
That's just blasphemy, the men's team plays better than the women's football teams.
The only reason the USA won so many women's world cup is cause the Europeans weren't serous with women's football and now that they are, be prepared to start losing like the men's team.
The best case against Serena is the competition she faced versus the competition MN and SG faced does not stack up.
Absolutely. Barry bonds, Lebron , Brady , Gretzky and Serena.
Remove Lebron and Serena with Jordan and Navratilova.
@@krces1 nope. Jordan was great for 6 years. All the other he lost , got swept in first round or ddnt make playoffs. Martina is tough call but Serena would had destroyed her. Too much power and speed.
Just like Montana and Brady , When Joe won 4 Super Bowls , there was no penalties for hitting low , helmet to helmet to protect the quarterback etc etc .... Brady would have not survived
She's definitely on the Mt Rushmore of female tennis players. That's about it though. I wouldn't have her on my all time Mt. Rushmore.
She's definitely on the Mt Rushmore of black female tennis players. So far at least. I give her that.
@@MrGenexxx not black tennis players Tennis players period.
@@hussein1725 you could easily put 4 tennis players above Serena. 4 female players might be tough but 4 players total would be dirt easy.
@@MrGenexxx nah my mt rushmore black female tennis players js coco gauf slonee stephens naomni osaaka and emma raducantu
@@mrlalalaelmo7454 solid list but Naomi and Emma are Asian.
Eeeeehhhh, I see what you are saying Dog, but put Serena to play against Martina, Steffi, and Monica. She would've smoked them all. And you know this! Her best opponent was Venus!!!
Lol😀😀 no. It's not that easy. They will beat Serena will older racquet.
Mad Dog is right; it's out of Serena. Graff and Martina.
Serena had plenty of competition. Look at her H2H record vs Davenport, Venus, Henin, Clijsters, Capriati, and Hingis. Martina Navratilova, only had one major obstacle to face in grand slams and that was Chris Evert for most of her prime who wasn't nearly as good outside of clay. Serena is the GOAT and faced more tough competition while Navratilova faced the highest level because none of the girls Serena faced was as good as Chris Evert but trust me Serena would have mopped the floor with Evert.
He knows his tennis
Stephen A. Bringin that real back to 1st take I love it.
Big facts
It's impossible to compare players from different eras just like it's impossible to compare players from different sports
The "Serena was so dominant, she made her competition look weak" is an illogical argument. It has been 23 years since she won her first grand slam. So, in that period, roughly 91 grand slams were there to be won and she won 23. There were 68 other slams and no one touched 10 in that period.
Steffi Graf won 22 and retired at 30 and in a much shorter career was the number 1 ranked player for 377 compared to Serena's 309 which is more than a year more. And if you wanted to compare peaks, Steffi won at least one grand slam every year for 9 years straight in which she won at least 3 grand slams for 5 years, at least one grand slam on every surface for 4 years and won all 4 grand slams and the olympic gold in 1988, none of which Serena has been able to match. And by the way she had a better win percentage on every surface, every grand slam and every grand slam final.
By what objective measure was Serena more dominant even with the lesser competition at the top?
Unquestionably Serena is the greatest of all time. The only thing she did not do was win the Calendar slam. However, She won the Serena Slam twice (that is 4 grand slams in a row twice). Both her and Venus showed their metal after they came back after a hiatus after the death of their sister. Serena also had her own near death experience, almost dying due to a pulmonary embolism and still coming back after that to the top of the sport. There will never be a more dominant Gold Medal Match than her thrashing of Sharapova at the London Olympics in 2012. She has won 10 grand slams post 30- which speaks to her longevity and dominance. Her and Venus have the most doubles slams on the female side. Venus and Serena have won the most Olympic medals jointly on the female side as well. She won a grand slam whilst pregnant. Since she came back after pregnancy no woman has made it to more slam finals than her. She has been written off so many times throughout her career and yet she has continually proved herself over and over again as the greatest of all time. That writing is on the wall. I don't think anyone will question whether Serena playing her best tennis would beat Graf playing her best tennis or Navratilova playing her best tennis. Unquestionably Serena at her best would have taken down all the legends of old. Let's see what the next generation can do, but let us give Serena the credit she is due, for overcoming so many obstacles to write the greatest story in female tennis of all time along with her sister Venus.
L take
Mad dog keeps saying that serena wouldn't have won as much if she had to play against the same three or four women he keeps mentioning. Those women aren't winning as much if they had to face serena so that argument is a wash.
well she wouldnt have won as many if she went played the better competition.. and yes the others wouldnt have won as many either so not sure how that makes her superior
Mad Dog is totally wrong.
Clearly Serena is the GOAT.
Serena is the only player in her Era who was number 1 in her 30's for 186 weeks.
There were at least two players during the early 80s who did that. Chris Everett and Martina.
Also there were several women in the top 25 who were in their 30s. Billie Jean King was ranked 21 at age 37.
There was never any woman in Serena's Era that was in their late 30s and ranked 21st in the world.
The fact that Serena stood alone as the most dominant player in her 30s should be without question.
As the game evolved, the players became younger and stronger.
The level of competition has increases since the 1980s. If you look at the ranks at that time, you might recognize the first 8. After that, you may struggle to identify them.
That certainly was not the case in Serena Williams time.
Serena clearly played in a more physically competitive Era than Martina and Chris.
Female GOAT of tennis but not greatest compared to her male counter parts
Serena Williams Tom Brady Kobe Bryant Lewis Hamilton Floyd money Mayweather and Tiger Woods are the greatest of this generation since the 2000’s hands down
Serena is the GOAT. Steffi, Martina, Etc are all-time greats but a class under Serena. Serena is unparalleled in how she dominated the sport. Serena (and Venus at one point) put tennis on the map and transcended the sport. Her longevity is first of its kind, winning so much before and after age 30. Added to that, she has the GS record of 23 singles, 14 doubles, and the career golden slam. Serena is the GOAT and one of the GREATEST athletes over across sports,
She isn’t even in the Mount Rushmore of tennis, she is in the Mount Rushmore of woman’s tennis that is it.
Who are the 4 that make up the Mount Rushmore of tennis?
@@ld4974 djoker, nadal, Federer and the next most accomplished guy
Serena was the best, however it’s tennis. Just like woods with golf or Phelps with swimming or JJ driving nascar, these sports figures go into a different category in my opinion.
Martina’s record not only eclipses Serena’s, she easily played in a much tougher and focused league than Serena did. It shouldn’t even be a question who’s the Goat of womens tennis. Martina destroys her
You can make an argument for any of the 3 Mad Dog mentioned (for me the only 3 real contenders), but I've never seen anyone be as dominant as Steffi Graf was at her best. The woman won 22 GS titles in 11 years and retired at 30!
The four greatest female tennis are Martina Navratilova, Serena Williams Steffi Graf and Monica Seles. Mad Dog makes a great point about Martina. We sometimes forget how great she was. She also started the power game ( not
Steffi ). Who is the greatest?. I guess it depends on how YOU choose to measure greatness,
Monica is on my list because of the eight majors she won by age nineteen.
correction :greatest tennis players
The disrespect towards Justine Henin is once again incredible. Everybody who really watched tennis in the Zeroes knows that she was Serena her biggest rival. Much better than Seles ever was even before the tragedy she had to overcome.
@@jeroenwapenaar6428 I don’t see anyone disrespecting Justine at all. She was a great player and she gave Serena fits; but not including her in the top four is not disrespecting her at all. How many can be in the top four?
If you see her as “greater” than Seles then that’s fine; others may not and their opinion should be respected as should yours.
@@light279 I was talking more about Russo en Stephen A in this case. Only mentioning Clijsters and not Henin who clearly was the better player in the majors. But indeed a little bit too sensitive on my part. :-)
@@jeroenwapenaar6428 👍
I agree 100% with Mad dog on this one to me what puts Steffi Graf over Serena even though she has one less grand slam is the grand slam she won in one calendar
year along with the Olympic gold and not to mention the way better competition she had to deal with ditto Martina.
@ William Calderon, disagree 1000% Your case against Serena being the GOAT is weak. Serena is thee Nanny Goat of women’s tennis!
One grand slam less than Serena only she actually won a grand slam and the Olympics in the same calendar year and had to deal with much tougher competition what is there not to
understand. If you could give me a better argument than that then I will agree with you but I don’t think you could. You should know your history not just these times.
There are people like Lionel Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo (the clear best in the biggest Sport in the world). I know they are not getting mentioned by American Media but Stephan A. shouldn't just throw her into Mount Rushmore conversations. For me its Ronaldo, Jordan, Messi and Woods/Phelps/Brady.
Messi or cr7 cant be in this discussion, because u have to be the indisputed best player of your generation and then u have be the goat of your own sport by 70-80 % agreement. Neither messi or cr7 can claim that
Messi and Ronaldo played for the biggest teams in their respective leagues. Teams that won before and continue to win without them. The American athletes built their teams into champions. Some of those teams have done nothing since these players have retired or left for another team.
Mad Dog is right
Sales wasn't really competition to Navratilova. Chris Evert was her only real true competitor and between them they were almost always in every GS final. That's down to their talent and hard work, but also due to a lack of depth in women's tennis at the time. Ditto with Graff, the one real competitor she faced would have eclipsed her, had it not been for the stabbing. For me, Serena is no doubt the greatest.
I completely agree with Doggie which is shocking!
Navratalova has 41 grand slams in doubles on top of her 18 grand slams. 13 tour finals campionships.
Zone defenses has basically made post players irrelevant. MJ would never be able to post up had zone existed in the 1990s. Illegal defense also had a strange ruling in the 90s.
Also, double-teaming wasn't as a prominent part of the game in the 90s. If you go back and watch a lot of Jordan games (not just his famous highlights), he's rarely double-teamed on the perimeter, often getting to do whatever he wanted 1-on-1, easily getting to his spots for his top-of-the-key jumper, baseline fadeaways, and blow-bys where he's going to finish at the rim. Kobe Bryant, who modeled almost his entire game after Jordan's, started to see the effects of modern defenses in the mid-to-late 2000s where he was ALWAYS double-teamed and sometimes triple-teamed... his percentages suffered because of it and I believe Jordan would have experienced similar outcomes had he played 20 years later. He still would have averaged 30 because he would have developed more of a 3-point game, but he wouldn't have shot 50% like he did for his entire career.
This is facts and no one talks about it
Ali, Brady, Jordan, Gretzky
5. Woods
6. Babe Ruth
7. Phelps
8. Williams
Ali cant be 1 hes not even the greatest boxer to ever live
@Haris Ibreljić and
Mount Rushmore is only 4 people
sugar ray won 91 fights straight lost one than won 60 straight again. Tyson was a tank and rocky Marchiano, Flyod is way better.
@Haris Ibreljić and ?
Stephen A talking about tennis is like him talking about boxing and UFC 😂😂😂😂😂
SAS couldn't match Mad Dogg in debating about the game of tennis, so we argued Legacy. Genius! 🙃
Stop playin with Mad Dog 😡💯
huh? we knew lebron was the best for a decade until he got old............ literally stopped giving him the mvp award on purpose so he couldnt catch MJ
Come on, not even close. MJ, Brady, Ruth, Lebron, Ali, Gretzky, Tiger, etc.
The women’s field was deeper in the 2000s. Who are the other women in the 80s? Tracy won 2 US OPENS
You can have a Mount Rushmore for a single sport, but to put them all together just does not work.
To me it comes down to difficulty. Tennis is not comparable to Sports like Football or Basketball let alone Boxing or MMA. She's definitely the best female Tennis player but that doesnt mean she's a Top 4 athlete. Just like Tiger Woods for instance, let's just say he's the GOAT Golfer, that doesnt compare to Ali in Boxing, LT in Football & etc
How would you know how difficult tennis is? While you sit in your gamer chair, eating Cheetos..😂
LT football? That’s Brady dude
Australian tennis player Margaret Court.
She won 64 Grand Slam events (24 singles, 19 doubles, 21 mixed doubles), which is a record for a male or female player.
Her 24 Grand Slam singles titles and 21 in mixed doubles are also all-time records for both sexes.
She achieved a career Grand Slam in singles, doubles, and mixed doubles.
She is one of three women to have achieved the calendar year Grand Slam in singles (alongside Steffi Graf and Maureen Connolly), and is the only woman to have achieved the mixed doubles Grand Slam, which she did twice.
Court won more than half of the Grand Slam singles tournaments she played (24 of 47).
She won 192 singles titles before and after the Open Era, an all-time record.[1]
Her career singles win-loss record was 1,177-106, for a winning percentage of 91.74 percent on all surfaces (hard, clay, grass, carpet), is also an all-time record.
She won at least 100 singles matches in 1965 (113-8), 1968 (107-12), 1969 (104-6),[2] 1970 (110-6),[3] and 1973 (108-6).[4]
She won more than 80 percent of her singles matches against top 10 players (297-73) and was the year-end top ranked player seven times.
Mount Rushmore of Sports. MJ, Pele, Gretzky, Tom Brady. Those 4 dominated , famous and culturally significant than any others.
Bolt and phelps??
Mad Dog is a sports encyclopedia
Serena is the Klitschko of women's tennis. Highly skilled dominant champion, physically superior, ruled her era, impressive record, longevity etc. But can't be considered the Goat because her era was simply not as difficult as that of Martina and Steffi. Let's not forget Steffi Graf retired at 30. Serena should have shattered the slams record given the above.
@Nel, Rubbish!
Klirsxhko ? U mean Tyson fury ? Lol or Ali
All Sports? Ali, Messi, Pele, Hank Aaron, Jackie Robinson, Lawrence Taylor, MJ, LeBron, Jim Brown, Babe Ruth??? Come on now
Stephen A had so much to pull from to strengthen his argument and did absolutely nothing
Seriously! Starting with Mad Dog conveniently leaving out the great SEVEN time grand slam champion Venus Williams because it didn't fit his weak era narrative. Also, if Seles had not been stabbed there is no way Graf ends up with 22 majors.
Comparing 23 titles is like saying brady is the goat because he has the most rings... and it is debatable. Montana would have something to say with his superb SB stats and record.
Graf is greater than Serena, but the two greatest women’s tennis players at highest peak were Althea Gibson and Monica Seles.
Put Serena in the late 80s and 90s Era and she would've dominated those women no doubt... she is the GOAT
Lol based on what
I need more of this!!! But Stephen A is absolutely right. What Serena AND Venus did for black women and even black men in tennis is just so amazing she has to be the greatest
Mad Dog is totally on point - Stephen A gave up honest opinions a long time ago - S
Mount Rushmore of ALL sports is a laughably horrible take, and also in my opinion a Mount Rushmore of all sports sounds impossible to make an objective list
Impossible I agree.
Muhammad Ali, Pele, Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan
@@mrlalalaelmo7454 Khabib, Messi, Tom Brady, Michael Phelps
That’s not who I’d pick that’s just showing how easy it is
Love mad dogs Knowledge this Brotha comes prepared
Stephie Graph and Monica Seles were FIRE
Mad dog makes some points
Someone should tell Molly to stop saying "yeah yeah", when it is not her turn to talk. It is really annoying. Can't they remove this in post processing?
Steffi and Martina are better than Serena. Stats demonstrate this
Stephen A., Jay Williams, and Molly cannot touch Mad Dog when it comes to tennis.
Prime Venus and Clijsters beat the breaks off everyone Mad Dog mentioned. He’s tripping.
Peak Serena beats any other female player in history in straight sets - easily.
really?? lmao. why did she only won 23/80 grand slams she played in?
She’s lost so many times tho? Lol
Roberta Vinci: "Hold my beer!"
Mad dog absolutely destroys Stephen a and molly. Stephen a hasn’t a clue about tennis 😂
They need to start separate men sport and women sport. The competition is not not even close. Serena is a GOAT in women sport not men.
The competition in tennis today is way greater than tennis of the past. Stop it!!!
Martina won 359 titles in singles, doubles, and mixed doubles.
So overall in all aspects of tennis she would be the goat. In the end people only care about singles and that is what Serena focused on. Williams is the better singles player, but Martina is the better all-around player.
I rarely agree with mad dog. But here, he is right
Mt rushmore of SPORTS sas?? That’s a huuuuge stretch 😅 we’re talking people like Ali, Messi, Jordan, Gretski, Brady..
She’s definitely mt rush of tennis tho
Not to mention Nadal, Djokovic and Federer and even Sampras if you want to go to old school tennis
@@vincegonzalez6804 very true, I understand what he means about significance and influence but he’s wild for that one