@@ThePianoProfKateBoyd interesting 🤔. Seeing that I'm still learning the number system I never thought of that process. I'll try it with my original music as well as music i play presently. Thank you 😊
Thanks a lot!~ I have been struggling about this for months and my teacher keep telling me I play the rhythm wrongly. After using ‘not difficult’, my teacher finally told me I have played it correctly.😆😆 May I know if there are any tips to play 6 to 4? I am struggling with this too😩🙈
This is how I learned when I was young. Getting proper separation of hands for polyrhythmic playing needs a completely different approach. For most people 2v3 or 3v4 are as hard as it needs to get. For true polyrhythms - which many professionals struggle with - you need to break your brain first, and this usually means learning a mind-bending etude like Scriabin op8 no4. What you're actually doing is concentrating on one hand being in one sense of time, and then the other. It takes a lot of practice in separate hands before putting them together. But once you've done that with 3/5 or 4/5 you can pretty much do anything. Try it! The method here works to start off with, but it doesn't solve the underlying problem, which is your brain!
Great point! Training the mind to adjust to your two hands doing very independent and conflicting rhythms is very difficult and takes time. This video is also clipped from a longer video in which I go into more depth: ruclips.net/video/iLAhgSL6tr8/видео.htmlsi=bFuacx3IXdKm2Hgi
@@ThePianoProfKateBoyd Thanks for the link. Your 3/4 video gets closer, but it's still very mechanical in its approach. I was very lary about polyrhythms until I came across Scriabin 8:4, which took me a year to learn. Most of it is 3/5, interspersed with the odd 4/5, but the hardest bar is 3/4 when you're switching out of the primary polyrhythm to another. Oddly the 4/5 bars aren't quite so much of a problem. My own approach was radically different to yours, although here are similarities. It was somewhat complicated by the piece switching from 3/5 to 4/5 mid-piece, which meant a mechanical method just doesn't cut it. I found the mnemonic approach distinctly counterproductive, in that it was reinforcing the idea of tying the action of the two hands together in some form, whereas the approach I used was completely the opposite. The starting exercise is with scales, where you progressively speed up the right hand an indeterminate amount, and then slow it back down again until the hands are in unison. To keep time you concentrate on the left hand while you're playing, and then switch to the right, and then back to the left again, and so on. To start off you'll find the other hand drifts back to the hand you concentrate on, so you switch back and forth to reinforce the difference. Then repeat by speeding up the left hand instead, and so on. The actual precision in terms of time is kept by the hand which isn't changing tempo, but the point is not to be precise about how much you speed up or slow down the other hand. After a while you can speed up one hand and slow down the other at the same time, while keeping the internal clock which allows both hands to come back together at the original tempo. Once you have done this, the only issue you have after this is precision, which to an extent you cover in the later parts of your video. The "feel" of the piece is that one hand is speeding up or slowing down against the other, rather than trying to fit a set pattern you have designated and remembered in your brain. The advantage of using indeterminate speeds is that you are properly dissociating the tempi, whcih would then allow you (for example) to suddenly switch from 3/5 to 4/5 just by speeding up (or slowing down) the tempo of your right hand relative to the left, rather than needing to adopt a new rhythmic pattern. What you can then do - and practice enough and it becomes automatic - is approach long-running polyrhythmic passages (e.g 11/8 followed by 14/8 or something else which is Chopinesque) in a way which means the passage itself doesn't have an internal rhythm as such, but rather you keep the 8 beats in one hand and can just organically speed up and slow down with the other hand. What you then produce sounds radically different. You can tell which professionals can do this just by listening to them. Not all have that organic flow capability, but without this true separation you will always be tied to some kind of rhythmic pattern. Scriabin 8:4 was an epiphany moment in my piano playing. Just managing to get through 3/5 - 4/5 - 3/4 using the approach above suddenly opened up a lot of Chopin which I hadn't been able to attempt properly before, and allowed me to start proper dissociation for dramatic effect in other pieces. I don't know if the above makes sense, or is even helpful. But I wish I'd been taught about this in my teenage years rather than having to discover it more than 20 years later.
Not classical music but Daydreaming by Radiohead helped me learn how to play polyrhythms. It's a beautiful, simple progression but it helps you get the feel for polyrhythms.
I tried this at work. Everytime we were unloading 100lbs sacks Id sing this. I got punched. This only applies to talented people on the piano. It does not work on a drilling rig with roughnecks but honestly that's my bad
Ma’am you are absolutely correct. As an African American I am on the 2 and the 4 as other are on the 1 and 3 naturally. That made me feel so validated❤❤❤❤
![How to Play TWO Against THREE Rhythms on the Piano - [Feat. Debussy's Arabesque No. 1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/iLAhgSL6tr8/mqdefault.jpg)
![How to Play TWO Against THREE Rhythms on the Piano - [Feat. Debussy's Arabesque No. 1]](/img/tr.png)
Frustrated by making lots of mistakes? This can help: ruclips.net/video/FjwVYVewyJ8/видео.html
Can this be used in any style?
@@frederickweeksjr.1189 Yes - it's just a mathematical division that works anytime you play 3 against 2.
@@ThePianoProfKateBoyd interesting 🤔. Seeing that I'm still learning the number system I never thought of that process. I'll try it with my original music as well as music i play presently. Thank you 😊
nice cup of tea works too with the 2 and 3
I mean 3 against 2
This technique taught me how to play Debussy Arabesque 1
Yay- glad it worked!!
Same, struggle so much until i watched this!!
Please do 4 against 3, 5 against 3,etc
For 4 against 3 I’ve heard “pass the god damn butter” where four is -pass the damn ter- and 3 is -pass god but-. Hope this helps!
If you still struggle with that, look for a Fantasie Impromptu tutorial, it helped me master that pattern.
The trick is to keep saying it until you believe it 😂
That's one of the reasons I like that particular mnemonic device, as opposed to some of the others out there. The power of positive thinking! 😂
EVERY PIANIST NEEDA SEE THIS
I learnt polyrhythms like that too but my words were, too difficult, too difficult.😂
😂
😂😂😂
Omg just when I was about to give up on this part of the piece your video popped up and now I can play it! Thank you so much! :)
Wow - that's great! Good luck!
Gonna try it tomorrow morning, I'm also frustrated with Mozart's sonata in f major, there's two passages with this same rythm and i SUFFER.
Yes, that spot is tricky! Good luck!
THANK YOU!! I’m learning arabesque no 1 and this is such a good tip!!!
I'm tall. When I dunk, I tell my wife and son, it's not difficult not difficult not difficult. Really.
Simply watch Jacob Collier play 2 against 3 against 4 against 5 against 6 all on the fingers of one hand and suddenly 2 against 3 sounds pretty doable
Once you get it though, OMG they are so satisfying and fun to play.
Same strategy toghether right left right togheter 🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹
Yep! 😊
For me it wasn’t hard until quintuplets were introduced
Thanks a lot!~ I have been struggling about this for months and my teacher keep telling me I play the rhythm wrongly. After using ‘not difficult’, my teacher finally told me I have played it correctly.😆😆
May I know if there are any tips to play 6 to 4? I am struggling with this too😩🙈
Glad it helped! 6 vs 4 is still 3 vs 2 so you can divide the 6 by 2 and the 4 by 2 to feel 2 triplets against 2 duples. Does that makes sense?
I memorized it as the rythym of Carol of the Bells or whatever it's called
two against three isnt hard, three against four is hard
i clicked on this video bc im learning the first arabesque and i was like oh this applies to me and thne u played it
Great way!
Oh my god, i love this so much! Thank you for making this!
Make sure you unlearn the mouth voice part during a concert : p
Great acrostic, pulses correct but also sheds the notion that difficult struggles is not this, psychologically, which can be distracting.
Awesome this is how they teach Indian Tabla with each stroke of the finger or combo there of labeled.
So cool!!
is so ez
I was taught “hot cup of tea” but this is a great way to remember it!
The British way.
I thought u were playing rush e
You are an angel!!!! Thank you!!!
Glad it helped!
Amazing!
i always used blueberry pie 😋
Love this! 🥰
Carol of tge bells helps
For me it was always just Carol of the Bells
That's a good one!
Please do 4:3, 3:5, 4:5
wow!!! loved this! really helped me out, I've never thought about it in this way! Awesome!!
Awesome! Thank you!
Thanks kate🎉
I played that piece of music 🎵🎶 in an exam thirty years ago.🎉
Glad to hear it!!
Thanks, I just needed this, not difficult indeed ☺️
You’re welcome! Glad it helped! 😊
Great tutorial!
Great way!
Now do 3 against 4.
No matter how hard I try, I JustCan Not DoIt.
Here it is - good luck! ruclips.net/user/shortsm4FO9FyKrYY
Godowsky
Genius
This is how I learned when I was young. Getting proper separation of hands for polyrhythmic playing needs a completely different approach. For most people 2v3 or 3v4 are as hard as it needs to get. For true polyrhythms - which many professionals struggle with - you need to break your brain first, and this usually means learning a mind-bending etude like Scriabin op8 no4. What you're actually doing is concentrating on one hand being in one sense of time, and then the other. It takes a lot of practice in separate hands before putting them together. But once you've done that with 3/5 or 4/5 you can pretty much do anything.
Try it! The method here works to start off with, but it doesn't solve the underlying problem, which is your brain!
Great point! Training the mind to adjust to your two hands doing very independent and conflicting rhythms is very difficult and takes time. This video is also clipped from a longer video in which I go into more depth: ruclips.net/video/iLAhgSL6tr8/видео.htmlsi=bFuacx3IXdKm2Hgi
@@ThePianoProfKateBoyd Thanks for the link. Your 3/4 video gets closer, but it's still very mechanical in its approach.
I was very lary about polyrhythms until I came across Scriabin 8:4, which took me a year to learn. Most of it is 3/5, interspersed with the odd 4/5, but the hardest bar is 3/4 when you're switching out of the primary polyrhythm to another. Oddly the 4/5 bars aren't quite so much of a problem.
My own approach was radically different to yours, although here are similarities. It was somewhat complicated by the piece switching from 3/5 to 4/5 mid-piece, which meant a mechanical method just doesn't cut it. I found the mnemonic approach distinctly counterproductive, in that it was reinforcing the idea of tying the action of the two hands together in some form, whereas the approach I used was completely the opposite.
The starting exercise is with scales, where you progressively speed up the right hand an indeterminate amount, and then slow it back down again until the hands are in unison. To keep time you concentrate on the left hand while you're playing, and then switch to the right, and then back to the left again, and so on. To start off you'll find the other hand drifts back to the hand you concentrate on, so you switch back and forth to reinforce the difference. Then repeat by speeding up the left hand instead, and so on. The actual precision in terms of time is kept by the hand which isn't changing tempo, but the point is not to be precise about how much you speed up or slow down the other hand. After a while you can speed up one hand and slow down the other at the same time, while keeping the internal clock which allows both hands to come back together at the original tempo.
Once you have done this, the only issue you have after this is precision, which to an extent you cover in the later parts of your video. The "feel" of the piece is that one hand is speeding up or slowing down against the other, rather than trying to fit a set pattern you have designated and remembered in your brain. The advantage of using indeterminate speeds is that you are properly dissociating the tempi, whcih would then allow you (for example) to suddenly switch from 3/5 to 4/5 just by speeding up (or slowing down) the tempo of your right hand relative to the left, rather than needing to adopt a new rhythmic pattern.
What you can then do - and practice enough and it becomes automatic - is approach long-running polyrhythmic passages (e.g 11/8 followed by 14/8 or something else which is Chopinesque) in a way which means the passage itself doesn't have an internal rhythm as such, but rather you keep the 8 beats in one hand and can just organically speed up and slow down with the other hand. What you then produce sounds radically different. You can tell which professionals can do this just by listening to them. Not all have that organic flow capability, but without this true separation you will always be tied to some kind of rhythmic pattern.
Scriabin 8:4 was an epiphany moment in my piano playing. Just managing to get through 3/5 - 4/5 - 3/4 using the approach above suddenly opened up a lot of Chopin which I hadn't been able to attempt properly before, and allowed me to start proper dissociation for dramatic effect in other pieces.
I don't know if the above makes sense, or is even helpful. But I wish I'd been taught about this in my teenage years rather than having to discover it more than 20 years later.
Not bad, but doesn't that have the wrong accent pattern?
Not sure what you mean by this - can you clarify what accent pattern you're referring to?
" J Collier" works too :)
I love this video!!!!! Thank you!!!
You are so welcome! Glad you found it helpful!
Something you definitely need to feel.
I like your tip. Thanks
You're welcome! Thanks for watching!
In germany we say:
Kalbs leber wurst
That's great! I hadn't heard that one! 😂 Schöne Grüße!
Awesome communication ! Funny the IRONY !
Love this! Amazing and underrated
Thank you so much!!
Not classical music but Daydreaming by Radiohead helped me learn how to play polyrhythms. It's a beautiful, simple progression but it helps you get the feel for polyrhythms.
For 3:2 you can just play a regular eighth note triplet with the second note replaced by 2 sixteenth notes.
I tried this at work. Everytime we were unloading 100lbs sacks Id sing this. I got punched. This only applies to talented people on the piano. It does not work on a drilling rig with roughnecks but honestly that's my bad
Ma’am you are absolutely correct. As an African American I am on the 2 and the 4 as other are on the 1 and 3 naturally. That made me feel so validated❤❤❤❤
Very creative!
I remember learning the beginning of this piece with so much confidence until I reached this part and I almost had a heart attack
This really helped me unlock polyrythms in my brain😂
Thank-you for this! I can play the song right up to this part... I cannot wait to practice this
i wish i had seen this a few months ago, that specific pattern on the 1st arabesque took me forever to learn 😂
THIS VIDEO JUST SINGLE-HANDEDLY FIXED A PROBLEM I HAVE HAD FOR THREE WEEKS
Very nice tutorial!
Glad you liked it!
Or just use basic subdivisions, 1 . 2 + 3
It doesn't work for me :(
@@danielagutierrez893 Count 1 2 and 3
The 3 rhythm goes on 1, 2, 3
The 2 goes on 1 and the "and" of 2
1 (+) 2 .+. 3 (+)
3____3____3___
2_______2_____
I was learning that same piece but I gave up because I wasn't capable of playing that rhythm. Thank you!
Tkanks!
You are most welcome!
Nice cup of tea
Yes!!!!! That's another one people use - thanks for the reminder! Have a great day! 🎹🥳
Ty 😊
Valeria Lail-Bolen
A good example, my theory professor also liked the main motif from "Carol of the Bells."
Yes, that's also a great one.
I'm a self learner and this seems like it works for me. Thanks a lot!
Super useful!
Glad it was helpful!
I'm glad it was helpful! Happy practicing! 😊
Great simple explanation!
Bacon and eggs, bacon and eggs...
Awesome! I love learning about all of these other helpful phrases people use!
Nice
2:3 is easy, 3:4 is easy too, but many people slide in some swing and do it wrong, 4:5 and further is when it gets a bit tougher
The trick is to not think about it.polyrhythm is God
This is especially true when you get past 3:4.
Or you can think of Carol of the bells