7n6 was never hardened steel, and it was never intended to be hardened steel. It’s just a mild steel, with a lead plug at the back, used because steel was in vast supply for the Soviets. It’s no where near 60 HRC on the hardness scale. 5.45 didn’t use a hardened penetrator core until 7n6m was produced in 1987. The steel in that bullet was hardened to 60 HRC. This round is exceedingly rare to find in the US. It was never really imported; the tiny amount that did make its way here was more likely an accident than intentional.
knowing russia, even if it was supposed to be a hardened steel core, it probably wasnt. but also i thought the purpose of that round was moreso to tumble then penetrate.
first time seeing your channel. there's a lot of guys making similar content, but i think you're doing it better. no cheese and no ego, just straight to it. you've also got a great voice for recording, used to be known as a voice for radio. (which is a lot better than being told you've got a face for radio haha)
From what i've read, 7n6 mild steel core is nothing more than cheaper FMJ full lead core equivalent... Citating from Wikipedia, true AP 5,45 rounds are only: 7n22 (from 1998, red ring above neck and black tip, pointed steel penetrator) 7n24 (from 1999, tungsten carbide penetrator, black ring above neck) and the newest 7n39 (from 2013, tungsten carbide92%/cobalt8% alloy penetrator, black ring above neck).
7n6 is light bullet that's substantially lighter than lead FMJ. Research the material part before typing your fancy, and really-really convenient QWERTY keyboard, dorogoj inostranêc.
@@adamcichon6957 I am good, at the very least not bad. What I say is you could not write a misconception. Reality is more complicated than what you said. Do vstrêč.
The steel core was intended to make the rear of the round lighter than it would be with a lead core. The cavity in the front that the lead plug moves forward into also shifts the weight to the rear, when the lead plug moves forward normally the shift in weight would improve stability but because it does not move forward asymmetrically it actually causes the bullet to flip nearly on impact so there is no first wound channel and then an enlarged wound cavity. The complex design is intended to make it create a large wound cavity without fragmenting.
That flower pedal effect is cool looking. The same thing happens with the old antitank gun the 37MM slamming threw big steel plates punching threw them leaving that exact same flower effect just bigger. This is like a mini version . Great job.
It was discovered with steel core ammo like 7N6 that when the jacket stays inside the bullet hole, it slows down the core passing through it. Some later version of 5.45x39 ammo were optimized for penetrating steel and aluminum. They use a hardened and more pointed core with.a little lead between the tip of the penetrator and the nose of the jacket. The lead's job is to split the jacket at the front so the penetrator can go through the barrier (steel or aluminum) without dragging the jacket through the hole.
@@trackpackgt877 They are!Also they still have conscription,so this posting is not logical.--He could have done alternative"Civil-service" or be unfit for service!
@@pe.bo.5038 oh ok thanks for the info brother i thought sweeds had to serve in their military and were required to own a rifle seen a documentary on it so u may be right about him ☝️
@trackpackgt877 That's not the Swedes. Sweeden has extremely strict gun control. You're thinking about the Swiss as in Switzerland. They have more lax gun laws and everyone serves in the military
Попробуй найти патроны 5.45 с термоупрочнённый сердечником, в 7н6 никогда его не было. Это всего лишь мягкая сталь марки ст10, для замены более дорогого свинца.
Sweet stuff, I went to a garage sale one time and the ol gal sold me a pail of WW2 .303 ammo. Like a 5 gallon pail full. Most of it has a black tip on them. Soon discovered there wasn't anything they wouldn't go through including the block of a Chev 350, like butter.
@@pe.bo.5038 You realize. 303 ammo is available on every continent on this earth right? You realize every ammo manufacturer in the US produced ammo for the .303 and many still do? Educate yourself, if thats not possible try google ffs.
@@panthermartin7784 🤡Dummy!I don't need your stupid lecture at all!-No,there for sure is no production of .303 AP in the US!-Not now;not in WW2In fact the ATF will take great interest in you,if you have these in your possession!🤢🤮
The Soviet round uses a mild steel core and is not intended to be an armour piercing round. They (Soviets) have specific armour piercing rounds with hardened steel cores, but their ball rounds often have mild steel cores instead of lead.
5.45 was made more to inflict maximum damage to tissue. 5.56 tends to work better against harder stuff even though it also fragments on impact with tissue.
The 5.45 has less energy, therefore less recoil, but still has a better bullet BC. If you shoot not at 50 meters, but at 300-400m, then the penetration ability of 5.45 is higher than 5.56. That's what it was made for.
5.56 can shot heavyer bullet so it have a better bc and most 5.45 have a steel core to penetrate stuff when 5.56 dont it is not about the caliber but the bullet type
Wonderful video. I have watched this 3 times and didn't remember you talking about Midway Arms! All of my reload cases for my 44 mag and other stuff were from Midway back in 1986 when I was stationed at Fort Hood Texas. Keep up the great job.
1st time I shot my steel plate with my AKM - it blew a hole straight through. I recovered the penetrator, it was the exact dimensions of a US M16 .556 bullet! I was very impressed. My ammo was for the 1950's - Russian.
The 7n6 cartridge has a steel core made of mild steel; steel was used instead of lead because it was cheap. armor-piercing ones start from 7n10. The 5.45 cartridge has higher ballistics, so armor-piercing bullets can penetrate armor up to 500-600 meters 7n39. At the same time, the 5.45 cartridge is lighter and smaller than 5.56, has less recoil, and is cheaper. higher engineering product
Definitely wasn't 60 hrc or it would've shattered, I doubt the heat generated from the powder is enough to soften the tip. Not only does it take a high temperature (600+ degrees, depending on type of steel) but it also takes a fair amount of time, hours.
I harden and temper a LOT of steel, and to heat temper all the way through hardened carbon steel would take time@temp. Time and temp are a complex balance, so imma say that mushroom was soft steel. One way you can tell carbon content (in solution) is to... GRIND! The spark pattern of carbon steel is very "bushy". The stringers almost pop like fireworks. Low carbon or unhardened carbon steel sparks long stringers. You could always spark test the penetrator before and after shooting. See if something changed. Idk... either way, cool video. I never really see 7n6 and i was always curious how itd do against m855. Another fun video.
I don't know if you stated what range you're shooting at, but one idea for a potential additional test would be over a longer distance. The 5.45 is supposed to have blatantly better ballistics, so in theory at least, it should perform better at longer distance. Another thing if you have the opportunity, you could test "interference", something like a loose(so that there's at least potential for it to bend along with impact) and angled(to maximize potential for deviating the shot) piece of paper a few meters before the target plate, see if it makes a difference. As there has been quite some discussions about HV smaller caliber ammo being more susceptible to "terrain", ie foliage and worse.
I’m gonna say what you’ve surely heard many times before. That’s one hell of a voice you’ve got there. You could have a career in radio or voiceovers. I sure hope you can sing.
Hey - really cool video. A note on sample variance and standard deviation - these figures are not stable for low sample sizes. They converge to the population variance as you add more and more samples. But for 2 or 3 samples, those numbers are totally meaningless. You could go shoot 100 rounds of each and determine later that actually 556 had a better stdev than 545 (or vice versa). Really, they are downright misleading for sample sizes that low. Obviously its good that you're thinking in that direction though :)
I suddenly feel less sad about 7n6 being no longer imported. Id like to see the difference between tula or wolf fmj x39 and soviet m43 x39. Though m43 is extremely rare in the US
7n6 has superior wounding mechanism and terminal ballistics to 5.56 over the entire flight path. It's a higher BC bullet with greater sectional density.
It appears that what you have in your hand at the beginning of the video is regular mild steel 7N6, but in your thumbnail, you appear to have the hardened steel 7N6M because of the red band where the bullet meets the neck. Maybe you just had some of each? Still a great video btw
Even anealed steel is quite a bit harder than FMJ. 60hRc is generally only brittle in steels wil a lot of chromium(eg martenistic stainless), sulfur or phosphorous(either as impurity or specifically for special uses needing easy machining)
Fun fact: currently used by post-soviet militaries 5,45 ap are different on steel between each other as well due to the fact they mixed 7n10 with new penetrators with old ones in the same boxes to fulfill quota. These rounds are still in circulation in huge amounts. It actually caused a major legal case (and deaths >
5.56 was designed for a 20 inch barrel 5.45 is actually pretty well optimized for a 16 inch barrel. Change the density of the base 5.56 FMJ projectile then change the powder to optimize for a barrel that is less than 20 inches
My thought is that 7n6 is not made for armor piercing characteristics. Rather the steel is just cheap, non toxic and any steel core is by law in the US considered armor piercing, even though its not. Lots of expensive Chinese rounds around with soft cheap steel that dont pen any better than lead.
The friction of the bore and air resistance can heat a high velocity rifle projectile to about 600 deg Fahrenheit, and while that will get lead nearly to its melting point, that is still well below the 2460-ish degrees necessary to melt mild steel. However, the impact generates an incredible amount of heat, if only for a very brief time period, and I imagine that is how you get deformation of your mild steel core. I think the steel in the M855 is hardened, and I doubt if it deformed as much.
I don't know if you were into any accuracy testing but it would be interesting to see if there's much of a difference with ball and rnds with steel cores. I've shot both and it really seems like "green tip" is significantly less accurate be it from a 1-8 and 1-7 twist barrels, which makes sense in my small mind, 2 different materials vs the 3 in 855. Ymmv. By the way great channel!
There is always the possibility that foreign steel insert ammunition sold over here to the public is not really a military production run but softer inserts specifically ment for civilian use and sale or the ones that didn't pass hardness test This is a good reason to disassemble a couple and test the hardness before being fired. If it's what their army is using then it still not a problem for them as it'll defeat boby armor which is it's primary use I'm assuming and seems to be better on chrony stats. And yeah better than so many peoples handloads including many of my own.
Years ago I shot some mild steel with 7n6 never took the thickness it was old plate from a demolished bridge. But it appeared thicker than the thickest here. Some shots clean through some I was able to pull the penetrator out like in the video. I was impressed soley because the thickness of it .
I bought 3 spam cans of 7n6 in the mid to late 90's, they were only $120 a can for 1080 rounds. Today the price is thru the roof. Kicking myself for not loading up on the cheap Russian ammo when I could back then. I hardly ever shoot my Overland Industries Bulgy AK74 SBR because I'm far too cheap to replace the ammo I'd use.
Midway is awesome. Ordered some ammo from OpTiCs PlAnEt and it shipped a week later. Ordered some from midway like 3 days after that order shipped, shipped the next day and will arrive the same day the first order will. -.-
Интересно увидеть тест на пробитии на 300 метрах,ведь за счет болистического кофециента 5.45 догоняет по скорости 5.56,и вот на таком расстоянии замерить бы пробиваемость)
@@okakokakiev787 и что ,что меньше,у 45 аср энерги дохрена,около 700 дж,но он не летит далеко по сравнении с пулей тт у которой 500 дж ,и пуля тт уже на 30 м догоняет 45 по энергии,знаешь почему?правильно,из за лучшей обтекаемости.это и есть лучший болестический коэффициент.Так и пуля 5.45 догоняет через 300 м 5.56 по энергии и скорости за счет лучшей обтекаемости.Набери в интернете -,,болестические таблици пуль,, и там ты все увидишь,на каком расстоянии пули теряют скорость и энергию.Скажу тебе больше,через 500 м пуля 5.45 по энергии обгоняет да же пулю от 7.62-39
Very interesting! You shoot from AR-15 with 16 inch barrel 7N6 and an average velocity was 3073 feet per second. But in another experiment with AK-74 which has the same barrel lenght (415 mm) the speed of bullet was lower on 120 f/s! Same cartridge, same barrel lenght, maybe different air conditions... And different construction of gas extraction! Can it be the difference? The real difference between AK and AR platforms? :D
Most indoor shooting ranges not allowed mild steel ammo because of higher pen vs lead. That main reason why Soviets/Russians still make steel core ammo.
Using a similar sizing name between these two cartridges is important for comparison. The 5.56 NATO is 5.56x45. So compare 5.65x45 with 5.45x39. One cartridge has noticably more propellent and more mass of a bullet.
5.56 has a case capacity of approximately 28.5cc while the 5.45 has a case capacity of 27cc, pretty close. The 5.45 case is shorter but slightly wider. The bullet weights run similar as well. I'd say the biggest difference is the peak pressure limit with 5.56 being significantly higher.
7N6 turned out to be such a disappointment. It doesn't penetrate as far as Russia claims it does. It doesnt even tumble very well, like its reputation suggests. But one thing it is, is very consistent & accurate. Some arsenals have that round dialed in for accuracy.
7n6 has mild steel core. not hardened. it was designed to save on lead. oldest and most common round, not even close to AP. first Increased penetration variant was 7n10 with 1070 high carbon steel core. true AP variants: 7n22 - guarantied penetration of 5mm armor plate at 250m 7n24 - guaranteed penetration of 5mm armor plate at 500m 7n39 - guaranteed penetration of 9mm armor plate at 500m
Bullshit!!! There is not enough 5.45x39 bullet’s energy to penetrate 5mm armor steel at these distances, no matter the penetrator core. 5mm mild steel maybe, but not armor steel, and definitely not 9mm armor steel. Fake news!
Pull the projectiles from both rounds. You will see that the pills are nearly the same length. The 5.56 projectile just sits a lot deeper in its case. TBH it is surprising to see anyone burning up their 7n6 these days.
I would bet that the .545 insert lost temper during the impact event, rather than when it slid through the barrel. After all, it's not the fall that kills you, it's the sudden stop.
First time viewer here and I'm not going to lie, hearing your voice before I even seen your face I thought you was BLACK! Ever tried singing career like Rick Astley? 😅 PS: Good job with the awesome review, thumbs up and keep it up!
Great video but in that frame behind you with all of the different caliber rounds. There’s one that’s fallen off it’s perch. You don’t have to sort that out but my OCD would totally thank you 😅.
In all fairness, this is still very scientific in my view compared to some other stuff we see on RUclips for example. Some of it is still good, but not as good as your content.
If possible, my teacher, the bullets of each bullet would be recorded on the tin in front of each hit, and the amount of penetration would also be recorded in millimeters. Thank you.
I imagine the original 20 inch barrel length of the AR platform would produce terrifying results with 5.56 since 5.56 was designed for a twenty inch barrel.
It does! It's really good at penetrating with a 20-inch barrel. I've had the pleasure of testing one out with M855A1 ammo, and it's a little monster! Personally, I'm more of a 7.62 x 39 and .308 kinda guy. But credit where credits due, the 5.56 shines in a 20-inch barrel!
When it comes to penetrating steel, velocity is key. M855 is known to have problems penetrating certain materials like steel. 7n6 is mild steel, but even if it was hardened I don't think 5.45x39 has enough velocity to do it. M855 is good at penetrating UHMWPE, would be interesting to see it compared to 7n6 against this material.
Seems 5.45 7n6 dig deeper due to longer steel core compare to 5.56 but its not intentional made to perform like hardened penetrator for armour/barrier penetrating purposes due to its mild steel core
Can you shoot some glass bottles with 5.45 bullets please, i want to see how it shatters? I can't do it because i live in Belgium... and it's impossible to own such a weapon here... thank you! Love your videos and subscribed!
Would be interresting to see a .243 tested against similar rounds. I forgot the name of the video but someone tested a plethora of different rifle calibers vs steel and the 243 was the only one besides the .50 bmg that managed to punch a hole something not even the mighty 338 lm managed to do. The target the guy shot in the video was danglin from a chain tho so some of them may not have hit at a good angle a problem your setup doesnt have
Energy transfer is far greater when the target is solidly mounted. Live combat always demonstrates that fact. That 243 definitely has the velocity advantage.
@@johnmcclain3887 that plus a very slim profile. Biggest issue i saw in that video i mentioned was that he didnt even wait out the time to let the plate stabilize again. Thats why i like this channel here same parameters for every round fired
@@julianeder4699 I suspect we find ourselves on many the same channels, I've been retired just since this plandemic, and too much time on my hands. They killed my machine shop.
There's also the factor of the plate able to move, and substantial force transferred in plate movement rather than moving the metal in the discrete striking zone.
@@johnmcclain3887 Wouldnt surprise me once one starts goin down the firearms rabbithole on youtube its only a question of time till you see a collab between a big guntuber with a smaller channel or another video on a certain type of round. Think my journey started back in the FPS Russia/ early Demo ranch days but just like in your case the pandemic inevitably lead to a bunch of boredom and a reinvigoration of my interrest in firearms especially since guns are a rather sensitive topic in my country of origin. As for the bullet striking the plate and the latter giving way to the impact via means of bein pushed backwards instead of letting the projectile pass through i sadly dont really understand how much it effects the performance of a round as most slow mo cameras on youtube slow down time only to a max of a 10th of the real life speed which is nowhere near enough to draw reliable conclusions on the subject. Ive seen a ton of comments on the subject especially on the channel goin ballistic aswell as theories on how spacing the plates apart could alter the outcome significantly but most of them just threw a bunch of numbers arround that my brain simply couldnt comprehend. That bein said the more randomn parameters one can eliminate in their testing environment the more clear cut the results get and the immobile nature of mr bananas setup, him settin up the plates at a 90° angle aswell as the grinding and precise measurements bein done afterwards most definitely eliminate a lot of the factors that could make a rounds performance deviate from the norm. Oh and enjoy the pleasures of retirement ive still got myself a good 3-4 decades before i can hang up my boots
I'd like to see some large caliber bullets that more play into the anti-material role or long range marksmanship that have a lot of juice behind them. It is interesting how the one you think will win ends up underperforming, you never know. Great video, very educational.
7n6 was never hardened steel, and it was never intended to be hardened steel. It’s just a mild steel, with a lead plug at the back, used because steel was in vast supply for the Soviets. It’s no where near 60 HRC on the hardness scale.
5.45 didn’t use a hardened penetrator core until 7n6m was produced in 1987. The steel in that bullet was hardened to 60 HRC. This round is exceedingly rare to find in the US. It was never really imported; the tiny amount that did make its way here was more likely an accident than intentional.
That makes sense. I bet that was the info that I was reading and didn’t realize that there was a difference in designation
@@bananaballistics - You have a troll using your site for scamming purposes. Under my name in the comments.
I have some im selling on gunbroker
@@bananaballistics They are often non distinguished in designation just like 7N10 and 7N10M , 7n24 and 7N24M and 7.62x39 PS and 7.62x39 PSM
knowing russia, even if it was supposed to be a hardened steel core, it probably wasnt. but also i thought the purpose of that round was moreso to tumble then penetrate.
7N6 is a MILD steel core, intended to reduce manufacturing cost, not to increase penetration.
It also makes bullet very unstable after hit
7n6 is not AP at all
It also allows the bullet to be lighter for length
Can't imagine why it would be cheaper. Lead is cheaper than steel
@@theimmortal4718 In Soviet Russia, steel is cheaper than lead ;-)
I, as a resident of Russia, can assure you that the core of a 7n6 bullet has never been 60HRC, but has always been mild steel
lol russia sucks
Kills by tumbling inside a human target?
@@adrianrubi5012 Penetrating 5-7 cm into the soft body, it begins to tumble there
@@adrianrubi5012as does the 5.56..
Tumble and fragment kinda at the same time.
@@goldenremnant2610 no wonder Reid Heinrichs zeroes them in the same manner he kinda said they were ballistic twins.
Straight to the point. No unneccessary talk no cringe. Subscribed
The ultimate guide for what thickness steel plate to wear underneath your Clint Eastwood poncho
7n6 is not an armor-piercing round. It has mild steel core, but the round is not declared as an AP round. For AP purpose there are 7n22 and 7n24
Daže 7n6m uže hotj skoljko-to probivnaâ. Molča o 7n10. I têm bolêê o 7n22 i 7n24
7h39
And 7n6m aswell
So as too M855 is the same that russian one
@@نبهانمروان-ل9س now there is 7n39 with a tungsten rod
first time seeing your channel. there's a lot of guys making similar content, but i think you're doing it better. no cheese and no ego, just straight to it. you've also got a great voice for recording, used to be known as a voice for radio. (which is a lot better than being told you've got a face for radio haha)
I have a face for radio but I don't have the voice, lol!
I guess you missed the cheese sprinkled liberally throughout the video.
From what i've read, 7n6 mild steel core is nothing more than cheaper FMJ full lead core equivalent...
Citating from Wikipedia, true AP 5,45 rounds are only:
7n22 (from 1998, red ring above neck and black tip, pointed steel penetrator)
7n24 (from 1999, tungsten carbide penetrator, black ring above neck)
and the newest 7n39 (from 2013, tungsten carbide92%/cobalt8% alloy penetrator, black ring above neck).
7n6 is light bullet that's substantially lighter than lead FMJ.
Research the material part before typing your fancy, and really-really convenient QWERTY keyboard, dorogoj inostranêc.
@@worldoftancraft have a nice day, it looks like you need some nice and kind words in your life, since you're brothered so much about so little...
@@adamcichon6957 I am good, at the very least not bad. What I say is you could not write a misconception. Reality is more complicated than what you said. Do vstrêč.
Must watch any and all 5.45x39 content. I love that round and miss the days of getting a spam can of 7N6 for $0.18/round
The steel core was intended to make the rear of the round lighter than it would be with a lead core. The cavity in the front that the lead plug moves forward into also shifts the weight to the rear, when the lead plug moves forward normally the shift in weight would improve stability but because it does not move forward asymmetrically it actually causes the bullet to flip nearly on impact so there is no first wound channel and then an enlarged wound cavity. The complex design is intended to make it create a large wound cavity without fragmenting.
That flower pedal effect is cool looking. The same thing happens with the old antitank gun the 37MM slamming threw big steel plates punching threw them leaving that exact same flower effect just bigger. This is like a mini version . Great job.
It was discovered with steel core ammo like 7N6 that when the jacket stays inside the bullet hole, it slows down the core passing through it. Some later version of 5.45x39 ammo were optimized for penetrating steel and aluminum. They use a hardened and more pointed core with.a little lead between the tip of the penetrator and the nose of the jacket. The lead's job is to split the jacket at the front so the penetrator can go through the barrier (steel or aluminum) without dragging the jacket through the hole.
Great channel. Love that you're always improving your testing methods and setup, like a true engineer.
Even though I`m a Swede that never even held a gun in real life, this channel is becoming one of my favourites! 😄
Hello from America i though u swedes were aloud to own guns?
Sure, they're just not very common here =)@@trackpackgt877
@@trackpackgt877 They are!Also they still have conscription,so this posting is not logical.--He could have done alternative"Civil-service" or be unfit for service!
@@pe.bo.5038 oh ok thanks for the info brother i thought sweeds had to serve in their military and were required to own a rifle seen a documentary on it so u may be right about him ☝️
@trackpackgt877 That's not the Swedes. Sweeden has extremely strict gun control. You're thinking about the Swiss as in Switzerland. They have more lax gun laws and everyone serves in the military
Попробуй найти патроны 5.45 с термоупрочнённый сердечником, в 7н6 никогда его не было. Это всего лишь мягкая сталь марки ст10, для замены более дорогого свинца.
был, после 86 года.
Sweet stuff, I went to a garage sale one time and the ol gal sold me a pail of WW2 .303 ammo. Like a 5 gallon pail full. Most of it has a black tip on them. Soon discovered there wasn't anything they wouldn't go through including the block of a Chev 350, like butter.
That’s awesome 😎
.303 or .30-06🤔???????How would.303 AP get to the US;except you are Canadian???
@@pe.bo.5038 You realize. 303 ammo is available on every continent on this earth right? You realize every ammo manufacturer in the US produced ammo for the .303 and many still do? Educate
yourself, if thats not possible try google ffs.
@@panthermartin7784 🤡Dummy!I don't need your stupid lecture at all!-No,there for sure is no production of .303 AP in the US!-Not now;not in WW2In fact the ATF will take great interest in you,if you have these in your possession!🤢🤮
I was curious to see how steel core bullets compared to ball on steel. Awesome video!
Bingo and I can't believe I have never thought about doing this test since I have so much scrap steel laying around outside my shop
The Soviet round uses a mild steel core and is not intended to be an armour piercing round. They (Soviets) have specific armour piercing rounds with hardened steel cores, but their ball rounds often have mild steel cores instead of lead.
5.45 was made more to inflict maximum damage to tissue. 5.56 tends to work better against harder stuff even though it also fragments on impact with tissue.
Which 5.56?
The original 55gr out of the 1in12 twist
Or the 62 steel penetrator out of the 1in7?
Good stuff, right to the point . I like how you didn’t take 20 minutes to make the same points .
The 5.45 has less energy, therefore less recoil, but still has a better bullet BC. If you shoot not at 50 meters, but at 300-400m, then the penetration ability of 5.45 is higher than 5.56. That's what it was made for.
exactly. Cartridge 223 is a copy of the sports 222, 5.45, a product of high engineering.
5.56 can shot heavyer bullet so it have a better bc and most 5.45 have a steel core to penetrate stuff when 5.56 dont it is not about the caliber but the bullet type
And i just finished wacht t he video the 5.56 did pen more in is testing lol
@@ЭнкерСидоров hight enginering that do everything worts that 5.56 expect recoil thats funny
@@TheJimyyy justify your comment
awesome! 545 one o my FAVE cartridges!
the one ive been waiting for and why i subbed!
Wonderful video. I have watched this 3 times and didn't remember you talking about Midway Arms! All of my reload cases for my 44 mag and other stuff were from Midway back in 1986 when I was stationed at Fort Hood Texas. Keep up the great job.
This is why everybody loves you Raymond.
Thanks for making these. Always fun to watch.
1st time I shot my steel plate with my AKM - it blew a hole straight through. I recovered the penetrator, it was the exact dimensions of a US M16 .556 bullet! I was very impressed. My ammo was for the 1950's - Russian.
Just discovered your channel, and I have to say you have a golden voice, and I did not expect you to be so young when they camera turned to you!
It is rare to get a comparison with this magnificence.. shoot glory🎉😊
I think I will stick with 7.62 X 39 MM and 7.62 X 51 Nato. However, great video.
The 7n6 cartridge has a steel core made of mild steel; steel was used instead of lead because it was cheap. armor-piercing ones start from 7n10.
The 5.45 cartridge has higher ballistics, so armor-piercing bullets can penetrate armor up to 500-600 meters 7n39.
At the same time, the 5.45 cartridge is lighter and smaller than 5.56, has less recoil, and is cheaper. higher engineering product
Awesome video Brother! Yes, we want to see a repeat of this video using 20 inch barrels. Thanks in advance. 🙏🏼
Man you gotta get some m855A1
I agree! Lol 🔫
Where can one acquire some?
Gunbroker I have acquired about 400 rounds
M855A1 out of my 20 inch barrel chrono 3268 fps and put a hole in my 3/8 ar500 target at 40 ish yards
Yes
This is beautifully concise. Well done
Definitely wasn't 60 hrc or it would've shattered, I doubt the heat generated from the powder is enough to soften the tip. Not only does it take a high temperature (600+ degrees, depending on type of steel) but it also takes a fair amount of time, hours.
I harden and temper a LOT of steel, and to heat temper all the way through hardened carbon steel would take time@temp. Time and temp are a complex balance, so imma say that mushroom was soft steel.
One way you can tell carbon content (in solution) is to... GRIND! The spark pattern of carbon steel is very "bushy". The stringers almost pop like fireworks. Low carbon or unhardened carbon steel sparks long stringers. You could always spark test the penetrator before and after shooting. See if something changed.
Idk... either way, cool video. I never really see 7n6 and i was always curious how itd do against m855.
Another fun video.
I don't know if you stated what range you're shooting at, but one idea for a potential additional test would be over a longer distance. The 5.45 is supposed to have blatantly better ballistics, so in theory at least, it should perform better at longer distance.
Another thing if you have the opportunity, you could test "interference", something like a loose(so that there's at least potential for it to bend along with impact) and angled(to maximize potential for deviating the shot) piece of paper a few meters before the target plate, see if it makes a difference. As there has been quite some discussions about HV smaller caliber ammo being more susceptible to "terrain", ie foliage and worse.
I’m gonna say what you’ve surely heard many times before.
That’s one hell of a voice you’ve got there. You could have a career in radio or voiceovers. I sure hope you can sing.
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👍❤ 7.62×54r steel core LPS. Barnayl -149gr TULA -150 GR.
NPS -150GR.
VS
7.62×51. 308 WIN BARNES - 168GR TTSX. 💪
Your channel is awesome dude good job
I think the impact generates a lot more heat and higher temp than friction on the rifling does.
Hey - really cool video. A note on sample variance and standard deviation - these figures are not stable for low sample sizes. They converge to the population variance as you add more and more samples. But for 2 or 3 samples, those numbers are totally meaningless. You could go shoot 100 rounds of each and determine later that actually 556 had a better stdev than 545 (or vice versa). Really, they are downright misleading for sample sizes that low. Obviously its good that you're thinking in that direction though :)
I suddenly feel less sad about 7n6 being no longer imported. Id like to see the difference between tula or wolf fmj x39 and soviet m43 x39. Though m43 is extremely rare in the US
Best thing was the cheap price…. Its corrosive though? So wouldnt touch it with my guns
7n6 has superior wounding mechanism and terminal ballistics to 5.56 over the entire flight path. It's a higher BC bullet with greater sectional density.
@@BigSmartArmed i meant over 5,45ball from tula
@@manganvbg90 While it was around it was the cheapest and the most accurate 5.45.
@@BigSmartArmed yes but corrosive and im lazy 😁
It appears that what you have in your hand at the beginning of the video is regular mild steel 7N6, but in your thumbnail, you appear to have the hardened steel 7N6M because of the red band where the bullet meets the neck. Maybe you just had some of each? Still a great video btw
That red band denotes normal 7n6. Where do you get your information?
All military ammo is sealed.
When the Farm to Market radio DJ makes ballistics videos 😂
i have just learnt the use for the tiny rod of that tool thru this vid
I'd love to see a show down between 140g .277 fury, 7mm-08 & 7x57.......the youngster, his older brother and their great grandad.
Even anealed steel is quite a bit harder than FMJ. 60hRc is generally only brittle in steels wil a lot of chromium(eg martenistic stainless), sulfur or phosphorous(either as impurity or specifically for special uses needing easy machining)
You do realize that 60hrc is how hard knives are…. That’s not annealed.
Fun fact: currently used by post-soviet militaries 5,45 ap are different on steel between each other as well due to the fact they mixed 7n10 with new penetrators with old ones in the same boxes to fulfill quota. These rounds are still in circulation in huge amounts. It actually caused a major legal case (and deaths >
5.56 was designed for a 20 inch barrel 5.45 is actually pretty well optimized for a 16 inch barrel. Change the density of the base 5.56 FMJ projectile then change the powder to optimize for a barrel that is less than 20 inches
18.6 inch barrel in canadia goes brrrrrrr
It would be interesting to have included the 224 Valkyrie which has similar diameter and could be fired out of the AR 15 platform.
awsome content, keep it up love ur videos, very interesting and helpful
My thought is that 7n6 is not made for armor piercing characteristics. Rather the steel is just cheap, non toxic and any steel core is by law in the US considered armor piercing, even though its not. Lots of expensive Chinese rounds around with soft cheap steel that dont pen any better than lead.
The friction of the bore and air resistance can heat a high velocity rifle projectile to about 600 deg Fahrenheit, and while that will get lead nearly to its melting point, that is still well below the 2460-ish degrees necessary to melt mild steel. However, the impact generates an incredible amount of heat, if only for a very brief time period, and I imagine that is how you get deformation of your mild steel core. I think the steel in the M855 is hardened, and I doubt if it deformed as much.
Great video! And good things to know!
I don't know if you were into any accuracy testing but it would be interesting to see if there's much of a difference with ball and rnds with steel cores. I've shot both and it really seems like "green tip" is significantly less accurate be it from a 1-8 and 1-7 twist barrels, which makes sense in my small mind, 2 different materials vs the 3 in 855. Ymmv. By the way great channel!
Broo just found this vid today and gotdamn son u need to go use that voice for some commercials or radio lmao 😂
Wow! Nice job….keep up the good work and thanks!
7N6M have hardened steel core. 7N6 - mild steel.
I wasn’t aware of an M designation, but that would explain it
There is always the possibility that foreign steel insert ammunition sold over here to the public is not really a military production run but softer inserts specifically ment for civilian use and sale or the ones that didn't pass hardness test
This is a good reason to disassemble a couple and test the hardness before being fired.
If it's what their army is using then it still not a problem for them as it'll defeat boby armor which is it's primary use I'm assuming and seems to be better on chrony stats. And yeah better than so many peoples handloads including many of my own.
im super impressed how consistent those Russian 5.45 rounds were.
I looove that brass catcher!
Just a reminder, M855 isn’t armor piercing.
Years ago I shot some mild steel with 7n6 never took the thickness it was old plate from a demolished bridge. But it appeared thicker than the thickest here. Some shots clean through some I was able to pull the penetrator out like in the video. I was impressed soley because the thickness of it .
Cool comparison, thanks.
I bought 3 spam cans of 7n6 in the mid to late 90's, they were only $120 a can for 1080 rounds. Today the price is thru the roof. Kicking myself for not loading up on the cheap Russian ammo when I could back then. I hardly ever shoot my Overland Industries Bulgy AK74 SBR because I'm far too cheap to replace the ammo I'd use.
Midway is awesome.
Ordered some ammo from OpTiCs PlAnEt and it shipped a week later.
Ordered some from midway like 3 days after that order shipped, shipped the next day and will arrive the same day the first order will. -.-
Интересно увидеть тест на пробитии на 300 метрах,ведь за счет болистического кофециента 5.45 догоняет по скорости 5.56,и вот на таком расстоянии замерить бы пробиваемость)
Мне кажется он нигде не перегоняет энергии у него меньше
@@okakokakiev787 и что ,что меньше,у 45 аср энерги дохрена,около 700 дж,но он не летит далеко по сравнении с пулей тт у которой 500 дж ,и пуля тт уже на 30 м догоняет 45 по энергии,знаешь почему?правильно,из за лучшей обтекаемости.это и есть лучший болестический коэффициент.Так и пуля 5.45 догоняет через 300 м 5.56 по энергии и скорости за счет лучшей обтекаемости.Набери в интернете -,,болестические таблици пуль,, и там ты все увидишь,на каком расстоянии пули теряют скорость и энергию.Скажу тебе больше,через 500 м пуля 5.45 по энергии обгоняет да же пулю от 7.62-39
Very interesting! You shoot from AR-15 with 16 inch barrel 7N6 and an average velocity was 3073 feet per second. But in another experiment with AK-74 which has the same barrel lenght (415 mm) the speed of bullet was lower on 120 f/s! Same cartridge, same barrel lenght, maybe different air conditions... And different construction of gas extraction! Can it be the difference? The real difference between AK and AR platforms? :D
Most indoor shooting ranges not allowed mild steel ammo because of higher pen vs lead. That main reason why Soviets/Russians still make steel core ammo.
Great content! It's looking nice and green wherever you'er at? It's still snowy here in Alaska.
Using a similar sizing name between these two cartridges is important for comparison. The 5.56 NATO is 5.56x45. So compare 5.65x45 with 5.45x39. One cartridge has noticably more propellent and more mass of a bullet.
5.56 has a case capacity of approximately 28.5cc while the 5.45 has a case capacity of 27cc, pretty close.
The 5.45 case is shorter but slightly wider. The bullet weights run similar as well.
I'd say the biggest difference is the peak pressure limit with 5.56 being significantly higher.
Awesome video!
7N6 turned out to be such a disappointment. It doesn't penetrate as far as Russia claims it does. It doesnt even tumble very well, like its reputation suggests.
But one thing it is, is very consistent & accurate. Some arsenals have that round dialed in for accuracy.
LOL, I've been shopping at Midway since they started selling recycled brass. Pistol brass cleaned in BB's.
7n6 has mild steel core. not hardened. it was designed to save on lead. oldest and most common round, not even close to AP.
first Increased penetration variant was 7n10 with 1070 high carbon steel core.
true AP variants:
7n22 - guarantied penetration of 5mm armor plate at 250m
7n24 - guaranteed penetration of 5mm armor plate at 500m
7n39 - guaranteed penetration of 9mm armor plate at 500m
Bullshit!!! There is not enough 5.45x39 bullet’s energy to penetrate 5mm armor steel at these distances, no matter the penetrator core. 5mm mild steel maybe, but not armor steel, and definitely not 9mm armor steel. Fake news!
you should have tested the 7N10 cartridge, newer and with increased performance, which has become standard since the 90s
Send him your ammo
I’ll have to look into that one
7n10 is super rare in the US
Pull the projectiles from both rounds. You will see that the pills are nearly the same length. The 5.56 projectile just sits a lot deeper in its case. TBH it is surprising to see anyone burning up their 7n6 these days.
Straight to the point no bullshit subscribed ✅
I would bet that the .545 insert lost temper during the impact event, rather than when it slid through the barrel. After all, it's not the fall that kills you, it's the sudden stop.
First time viewer here and I'm not going to lie, hearing your voice before I even seen your face I thought you was BLACK!
Ever tried singing career like Rick Astley? 😅
PS: Good job with the awesome review, thumbs up and keep it up!
Great video but in that frame behind you with all of the different caliber rounds. There’s one that’s fallen off it’s perch. You don’t have to sort that out but my OCD would totally thank you 😅.
Good test. Thank you
In all fairness, this is still very scientific in my view compared to some other stuff we see on RUclips for example. Some of it is still good, but not as good as your content.
I bet the air pocket in the tip of the 7N6 had something to do with the penetration on the steel.
It does seem to have a large air pocket
That pocket does nothing on steel. Its purpose is to make the projectile more butt heavy so it tumbles quicker in soft tissue.
@@eloiseharbeson2483That was my point.....
If possible, my teacher, the bullets of each bullet would be recorded on the tin in front of each hit, and the amount of penetration would also be recorded in millimeters. Thank you.
It's my understanding that 7n6 uses a mild steel penetrator for the most part.
love to see 30.06 black tip AP tested
Great video thanks again
I imagine the original 20 inch barrel length of the AR platform would produce terrifying results with 5.56 since 5.56 was designed for a twenty inch barrel.
It does! It's really good at penetrating with a 20-inch barrel. I've had the pleasure of testing one out with M855A1 ammo, and it's a little monster! Personally, I'm more of a 7.62 x 39 and .308 kinda guy. But credit where credits due, the 5.56 shines in a 20-inch barrel!
I liked the crosshair on the plate, have you thought of making a stencil you can lay down before you spray?
When it comes to penetrating steel, velocity is key. M855 is known to have problems penetrating certain materials like steel. 7n6 is mild steel, but even if it was hardened I don't think 5.45x39 has enough velocity to do it. M855 is good at penetrating UHMWPE, would be interesting to see it compared to 7n6 against this material.
Would like to see it out of 20 inch barrel which the cartridge is designed for
20 inch barrel and that 5.56 will zip right through that 3/8 plate. This configuration will defeat IIIA reliably.
Do love your videos man
Seems 5.45 7n6 dig deeper due to longer steel core compare to 5.56 but its not intentional made to perform like hardened penetrator for armour/barrier penetrating purposes due to its mild steel core
Can you shoot some glass bottles with 5.45 bullets please, i want to see how it shatters? I can't do it because i live in Belgium... and it's impossible to own such a weapon here... thank you! Love your videos and subscribed!
I would like to see you try the M855 out of a 20 inch barrel.
Neat test.
Now please fix that cartridge thats tipped over in the case behind your desk.
To bad you didnt have 20inch barrel for both cals to test that. Thanks for the video
Would be interresting to see a .243 tested against similar rounds.
I forgot the name of the video but someone tested a plethora of different rifle calibers vs steel and the 243 was the only one besides the .50 bmg that managed to punch a hole something not even the mighty 338 lm managed to do.
The target the guy shot in the video was danglin from a chain tho so some of them may not have hit at a good angle a problem your setup doesnt have
Energy transfer is far greater when the target is solidly mounted. Live combat always demonstrates that fact. That 243 definitely has the velocity advantage.
@@johnmcclain3887 that plus a very slim profile.
Biggest issue i saw in that video i mentioned was that he didnt even wait out the time to let the plate stabilize again. Thats why i like this channel here same parameters for every round fired
@@julianeder4699 I suspect we find ourselves on many the same channels, I've been retired just since this plandemic, and too much time on my hands. They killed my machine shop.
There's also the factor of the plate able to move, and substantial force transferred in plate movement rather than moving the metal in the discrete striking zone.
@@johnmcclain3887 Wouldnt surprise me once one starts goin down the firearms rabbithole on youtube its only a question of time till you see a collab between a big guntuber with a smaller channel or another video on a certain type of round. Think my journey started back in the FPS Russia/ early Demo ranch days but just like in your case the pandemic inevitably lead to a bunch of boredom and a reinvigoration of my interrest in firearms especially since guns are a rather sensitive topic in my country of origin.
As for the bullet striking the plate and the latter giving way to the impact via means of bein pushed backwards instead of letting the projectile pass through i sadly dont really understand how much it effects the performance of a round as most slow mo cameras on youtube slow down time only to a max of a 10th of the real life speed which is nowhere near enough to draw reliable conclusions on the subject. Ive seen a ton of comments on the subject especially on the channel goin ballistic aswell as theories on how spacing the plates apart could alter the outcome significantly but most of them just threw a bunch of numbers arround that my brain simply couldnt comprehend.
That bein said the more randomn parameters one can eliminate in their testing environment the more clear cut the results get and the immobile nature of mr bananas setup, him settin up the plates at a 90° angle aswell as the grinding and precise measurements bein done afterwards most definitely eliminate a lot of the factors that could make a rounds performance deviate from the norm.
Oh and enjoy the pleasures of retirement ive still got myself a good 3-4 decades before i can hang up my boots
I'd like to see some large caliber bullets that more play into the anti-material role or long range marksmanship that have a lot of juice behind them. It is interesting how the one you think will win ends up underperforming, you never know. Great video, very educational.