Amiga Vs Windows in Lightwave3D!

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  • Опубликовано: 27 окт 2024
  • HEAD TO HEAD MAYHEM!!!

Комментарии • 85

  • @the_omg3242
    @the_omg3242 2 года назад +8

    I used to do a lot of 3D with my Amiga and Lightwave coming to the PC is what finally got me to buy a PC. I remember how fast Lightwave seemed on my first Pentium 90 compared to my Amiga 2000. (with 030 board)

    • @HoldandModify
      @HoldandModify  2 года назад +4

      Yup I finally jumped ship in 1995. I had feelings of regret but I was more focused on 3D work than the computer platform at that point.

  • @amipal24
    @amipal24 2 года назад +3

    What amazes me is how god-damned good that old files looks in modern software. Astounding, truly astounding!

    • @HoldandModify
      @HoldandModify  2 года назад +3

      Yeah it holds up well and the thing is? Those textures on the ship are the HALF RESOLUTION ones. The full res ones look even better, of course.

    • @mrkitty777
      @mrkitty777 2 года назад +2

      Babylon 5 is also done with Lightwave

    • @HoldandModify
      @HoldandModify  2 года назад +3

      @@mrkitty777 The original pilot, and parts of season one, yup!

  • @mikedefoy
    @mikedefoy Год назад +1

    Had the privilege to work with another Lightwave enthusiast Dan Ablan at the CBM shop since version 1 on the Toaster. Even though owning a Mac version, ended up with the PC. It seemed the graphics card had to be high level for it to run at its best, as well as multiple processor cores, so additional funds were always allocated for that as well.

  • @CantankerousDave
    @CantankerousDave 2 года назад +2

    I still remember ads in magazines listing three prices: One for the Amiga version, one for the Intel version, and one for the DEC Alpha version.

    • @HoldandModify
      @HoldandModify  2 года назад +1

      And back then I was broke no matter what anyways.

  • @DavePoo2
    @DavePoo2 2 года назад +10

    I assume that Win Lightwave render using multiple CPU cores. I suppose one of the big changes in CPU's from the Amiga days, other than the higher clock speed is in about the 2000's we started getting multi-core CPUs. On the whole though, it's interesting to see that that the roots of Lightwave are all there in the Amiga version, the modern one is just faster, higher res, and the limitation on numbers of colors being displayed has gone away. If Commodore had survived, and continued to develop, then they would have been at this point not too long after the Amiga's heyday

    • @TemalCageman
      @TemalCageman 2 года назад +3

      Regarding LightWaves developement on the PC, the render engine sort of developed in tandem with CPUs developement. LightWave was the first off-the-shelf software that supported HDRI lighting and I also think it was the first off-the-shelf 3D software that supported 64-bit computing back in 2005.

    • @valenrn8657
      @valenrn8657 2 года назад +1

      HP's PA-RISC died like 68K.

    • @JanuszKrysztofiak
      @JanuszKrysztofiak 2 года назад

      Commodore, like Apple, would have needed a new CPU, a new OS, a lot of $$$ for the development, and deep coffers to convince software companies to develop for the new platform and market it. m68k had no future. AmigaOS lacked memory protection and was designed around the assumption there is only one CPU core - no easy way to scale it up but to rewrite/license another OS. Since Commodore had already the Hombre chipset in the works, it might opt to replace m68 with PA-RISC (eventually, it would turn dead horse too). Another thing was the user base. The bulk of the dwindling Amiga market share had been composed of 'little' Amigas (500, 600, 1200) - relatively cheap (vs. multimedia PCs of the time) home computers for games and some edutainment. These customers (unlike Apple ones) would not be willing to pay a premium price for the new 'Amiga', they would rather buy a console or a PC. I can't see a continued development viable from a business point of view. Most likely Commodore would have left the personal computer market and turned to consoles/add-ons in the mid-1990s.

    • @HoldandModify
      @HoldandModify  2 года назад

      Can’t say I disagree with your assessment. Seems reasonable and I dare agree. :)

    • @valenrn8657
      @valenrn8657 2 года назад +1

      @@JanuszKrysztofiak FYI, before Commodore's bankruptcy in Q1 1994, Commodore released Pentium-based PC laptops. ruclips.net/video/A_tWc4Sobog/видео.html
      HP pushed its PA-RISC customers into Intel Itanium...
      Commodore has plans for Hombre-based OpenGL PCI add-on cards for the PC market and OpenGL-based game consoles, hence its business model is converted into NVIDIA's.
      Amiga Hombre-based desktop computers act like open dev kits for Hombre-based game consoles.
      Both Sony's Playstation and Microsoft's Xbox followed Nintendo's walled garden game console business model.
      Commodore's Amiga Hombre-based graphics chipset targeted OpenGL compliance.

  • @kevinhanley6462
    @kevinhanley6462 2 года назад +1

    No guru meditation or blue screen of death were present in this video, but did boldly go where no Amiga has gone before!

  • @SledgeFox
    @SledgeFox 2 года назад +2

    I never saw the PC version, very interesting! Thank you very much, have a great day!

  • @mistercohaagen
    @mistercohaagen 2 года назад +1

    I recognize that voice! The algorithm seems to know me too well. Miss ya man, glad to know you're still at it.

    • @HoldandModify
      @HoldandModify  2 года назад

      Intrigue! I have a contact email in the about if you wish to reveal yourself. :)

  • @sirrodneyffing1
    @sirrodneyffing1 2 года назад +1

    Good God. I spent weeks learning this on the Amiga a long time ago; a life time away now.

  • @rklein
    @rklein Год назад +1

    Lightwave was a sweet bitter product for me. I loved using it on my Amiga, but when they ported it to the PC that's when I knew for sure the Amiga was really dead. I used my Sparc Stations for a couple of more years but was finally dragged kicking and screaming into the Windoze universe. LOL

    • @HoldandModify
      @HoldandModify  Год назад +1

      The transition to Winblows from Amiga was painful.

    • @rklein
      @rklein Год назад +1

      @@HoldandModify the only thing that made it tolerable for me was a fellow Amiga fanboy showed me how to set up the Windoze file manager like Dopus and I still use two file manager windows side by side to this day. I'm obviously stuck in the past, but it just works! LOL

  • @ChrisEdwardsRestoration
    @ChrisEdwardsRestoration 2 года назад +2

    hi. I would love to see more "new" lightwave stuff. it looks so awesome in what it can do. not just star trek, but THE ORVILLE and stargate and spaceships and explosions and fly by's of jets, and water . you know other stuff. lol

  • @EDcase1
    @EDcase1 2 года назад +2

    I used Lightwave up to 1997 when I changed to 3dsMax for 'Lost in Space'.
    (Using Blender now for a Year)

    • @HoldandModify
      @HoldandModify  2 года назад

      Blender is very popular. Being free helps. :)

    • @EDcase1
      @EDcase1 2 года назад

      @@HoldandModify Yep, its quite impressive but certainly NOT as intuitive as Lightwave or 3dsMax

    • @valenrn8657
      @valenrn8657 2 года назад

      @@HoldandModify Blender 3D support GPUs with hardware-accelerated raytracing and tensor cores.

    • @HoldandModify
      @HoldandModify  2 года назад +1

      @@valenrn8657 I do the same using Octane in Lightwave3D. :)

  • @doctor49152
    @doctor49152 2 года назад +1

    I use octane with LW. Amazing at what it can do with the video card rendering. I think this scene would almost render in real time.

    • @HoldandModify
      @HoldandModify  2 года назад

      Yup! I’m almost exclusively Octane now. In Lightwave. Great stuff!

  • @FuZZbaLLbee
    @FuZZbaLLbee Год назад +1

    Everything I made back in the day can easily be rendered in near realtime now 🙂

  • @richardhagen2647
    @richardhagen2647 6 месяцев назад

    At the time they had LW 5 on both Amiga and Windows, I complained to Newtek that there wasn't any real reason that they couldn't have had some flatshaded but realtime filled-polygon view for the viewport on the Amiga. They replied that this was technically true but they couldn't due to a lack of any compiler support. Ah well.

    • @HoldandModify
      @HoldandModify  6 месяцев назад

      yeah. there was a third party plugin that gave basic solid shaded polygons. but it came out way late.

  • @wmp3920
    @wmp3920 Год назад

    Thanks for the review!! I am learning lightwave and want to learn more about it. Tell me please, where can I find a similar model of the ship for study? It is very interesting how the luminous windows are made and how the surface detail is added (painted bump map or somthg similar normal )?

    • @HoldandModify
      @HoldandModify  Год назад

      Aminet has a lot of free models for Lightwave.

  • @cullmaster7361
    @cullmaster7361 2 года назад +1

    Good stuff “Q” 👍🏻

  • @rossedwards6503
    @rossedwards6503 4 месяца назад

    Is there any potential pipeline to get a mesh made in Blender to an .lwo format that can be loaded in Lightwave 5.0c on Amiga? potentially via LW 7 or 9 on PC? just mesh no materials / textures etc.

    • @HoldandModify
      @HoldandModify  4 месяца назад

      Yea export a obj file. Then you can use current LW to take it back to Amiga. Just know there’s a 65,000 point limit for Amiga models.

  • @daishi5571
    @daishi5571 Год назад

    How about a LW5 Amiga vs Mac face-off? It won a best application award on the mac but it seems to have no coverage on YT.

    • @HoldandModify
      @HoldandModify  Год назад

      Hmmm. There was a PPC Mac version and INTEL version. Issue is emulators. Not familiar with them. Other than Shapeshifter. Which I don’t know if there was a 68000 series Mac LW?

    • @daishi5571
      @daishi5571 Год назад

      @@HoldandModify There was, but I was being overly cruel. The Mac version had a dongle but not like how LW originally needed the Video Toaster (sometimes referred to as a dongle) on the Amiga. Instead it had a conspicuously large box than needed to be plugged in to the Mac. That "Dongle just so happened to be a fully functional A2000 with a Video Toaster as well lol. It was Amiga LW running on the Amiga then used the Mac as a terminal. And this won a best application in a Mac magazine. But try finding any info on it and it's like it's been wiped from the internet.

    • @HoldandModify
      @HoldandModify  Год назад

      @@daishi5571 oh wow! Hahah

  • @random007nadir
    @random007nadir 2 года назад

    You'd have access to a much more advanced lighting simulation than the Amiga version too.

    • @HoldandModify
      @HoldandModify  2 года назад

      Well yes the current version of LW is massively more evolved. In many areas. :)

  • @dlma7196
    @dlma7196 2 года назад

    Q: What would be the best way on LW5 PC/Mac to render to HAM8 or convert to DCTV?

    • @HoldandModify
      @HoldandModify  2 года назад

      Well of course non Amiga LW can’t do Amiga modes. So save out jog or tga or heck even iff. Then load into an Amiga either real or emulated and use ADPro to make a HAM8 image or anim.

  • @libbysworld1509
    @libbysworld1509 2 года назад +1

    What opengl plugins where available for the amiga?

    • @HoldandModify
      @HoldandModify  2 года назад

      In modeler there was one by Pontari or Pom? I’d need to research. As it came out at end of life for most Lightwave users on Amiga. I believe the CoffinOS install contains the plugin as part of that massive compilation.

  • @10MARC
    @10MARC 2 года назад +1

    What are the differences in real render times?

    • @HoldandModify
      @HoldandModify  2 года назад +3

      Well, as you can see, it’s clear the Windows version is rendering a final frame at near real time. I’m able to “scrub” the timeline and we see a nice high resolution render before our eyes. Whereas the Amiga, as seen in previous videos, can take as long as 9-minutes to render even just a 640x480 frame. :)

    • @theamigashow9506
      @theamigashow9506 2 года назад +1

      @@HoldandModify Awesome video. It would be cool if you could get the the Amiga to set renders off in WinUAE on the PC using ScreamerNet.

    • @HoldandModify
      @HoldandModify  2 года назад +1

      @@theamigashow9506 that would be. That’s way out of my Wheel House though! Heh

    • @theamigashow9506
      @theamigashow9506 2 года назад +1

      @@HoldandModify yeah, I’m still fighting with Samba 😅

    • @HoldandModify
      @HoldandModify  2 года назад +1

      @Neb6at Foundation Imaging we had PPros and DEC Alpha. As our workstations. We’d use a KVM to switch between them. :)

  • @JamesEzell
    @JamesEzell 2 года назад

    What was the last version of LW made for Amiga? I started using LW on the PC with version 5.6.

    • @HoldandModify
      @HoldandModify  2 года назад +1

      5.0. 5.5-5.7 was in the works but it was never released. There was a “beta” build for Amiga we used at the studio, but pretty quickly switched to Windows version of the beta. (5.7) the final nail in the coffin for Amiga based LW. LW was evolving beyond the processing power of the wildly available 040 CPUs. The 060s while quick, we’re hard to come by for most Amiga users and the Pentium CPUs so quickly gained speed and price cuts.

    • @valenrn8657
      @valenrn8657 2 года назад +1

      ​@@HoldandModify For 10,000 lots, 68060's wholesale per unit cost in 1994 was about half of Pentium counterpart's cost.
      The problem is with Phase 5's weak economies of scale and the lack of low-cost clean sheet Amiga mainboard infrastructure that was designed around the 68060. Also, Motorola was pushing its 68K hardware customers towards PowerPC.
      Amiga 3000/4000 motherboard wasn't designed to be low cost like Amiga CD32 with expansion slots mindset. Taiwanese X86 PC motherboard designs have low chip count they are designed to be low-cost with expansion slots.
      Amiga 3000/4000 motherboard's A3640 CPU card has additional glue logic complexity since the CPU bus was designed for 68020/68030 not for 68040/68060. Phase 5 Cyberstorm 060 card has Fast RAM slots and extra glue logic for Amiga 3000/4000 motherboard, hence it's almost a computer motherboard in its own right.
      Amiga 4000/060 would have two daughterboards in addition to the mainboard, hence it's not cost-competitive against the classic Pentium's single mainboard designs.
      68040 and 68060 shares the same CPU socket with a voltage difference, hence there are adaptors to convert the 68040 sockets for 68060.
      By the time Quake was released in 1996, Phase 5 Cyberstorm 060/Blizzard 060 @ 50Mhz card wasn't performance and cost-effective when compared to out-of-the-box PC clone with Pentium PC with 133/150/166 Mhz with S3 Trio 64 video card.
      I was able to overlocked 68060 Rev 1 to 62.5 Mhz via TF1260 for A1200. 70 Mhz can be reached with a classic Pentium heatsink and fan combo, but I couldn't close the Amiga 1200's case.
      68060 Rev 6 can be overclocked to 100 Mhz.
      68060 Rev 4 can be overlocked to 75 Mhz. My TF1260 was shipped with a lower cost 68LC060 Rev 4 and it can reach 75 Mhz. 68LC060 has disabled FPU.
      Despite 68060's clock speed potential, Motorola wasn't focusing on 68K CPUs for desktop computer usage.
      TF1260 refers to the TerribleFire 68060-based CPU expansion card for the Amiga 1200. 68060 (with 60Mhz to 100 Mhz) with local Fast RAM equipped Amigas are similar to early Pentium from 60 Mhz to 90 Mhz. In 1995, Intel was racing ahead with higher-clocked Pentiums.
      For a normal end-user, an out-of-the-box experience is important.

    • @HoldandModify
      @HoldandModify  2 года назад

      @@valenrn8657 Holy shit man you just dropped an entire season of a Netflix show on us for retro knowledge. Thank you is the least I can say.

    • @valenrn8657
      @valenrn8657 2 года назад

      @@HoldandModify I returned to the Amiga hardware during the 1st wave COVID-19 lockdown.
      I dusted off my A500 and bought A1200 in Y2020. A1200 was bought cheap (i.e. "broken for parts") since the original owner's family relatives doesn't know anything about it. A1200 was found in rooftop antic. I recapped A1200 and purchased TF1260.
      For my 1996 Pentium 150 PC purchase, I sold my Amiga 3000/030 to a small TV studio.
      From Dad's contacts, my Amiga 3000/030 was purchased secondhand in 1992 from a TV studio since it still has TV content on it. My Dad's contacts have owned big box Amigas and they are my primary source for games. :p
      Your perspective is interesting since I was in my primary school years during the early 1990s.

    • @HoldandModify
      @HoldandModify  2 года назад +1

      @@valenrn8657 I graduated American high school in 1992. I dragged my 3000 in to that damn school trying to show those kids an alternative. Don’t know if it worked but damn it was fun. If not a hassle.

  • @krisztianakarmilyen7050
    @krisztianakarmilyen7050 3 месяца назад +1

    Lightwave3d is much better on Amiga! Of course, you don't have to run it on an Amiga 2000 machine, but at least an Amiga 1200 and a ppc card!
    this is a software originally developed for the Amiga, Windows was not suitable for such tasks at that time and not very much now.
    it's like when Adobe programs are ported from Mac OS
    they will never work as well as on a Mac

  • @christuusgnosis
    @christuusgnosis 2 года назад +1

    omg
    40 floppies to install...

    • @HoldandModify
      @HoldandModify  2 года назад

      Thankfully a CD version came. But yes. I’ve been tortured with that install working at the store. It’s gray when you get to floppy 32 and it has a read error.

    • @christuusgnosis
      @christuusgnosis 2 года назад +1

      @@HoldandModify I made two complete backups of every floppy because I had to pay a guy $50 because he had a full set and mine had a single dead disk.
      Oh the lovely video toaster days
      the lens flares kept us in awe for hours

    • @HoldandModify
      @HoldandModify  2 года назад

      @Neb6 I keep hunting eBay and forums for a boxed copy of Amiga LW stands alone! One day!

  • @valenrn8657
    @valenrn8657 2 года назад +1

    Star Trek Online has updated Galaxy Class model being rendered in real-time deferred rendering methods. ruclips.net/video/xl8VGW3CO7o/видео.html
    Your Enterprise D model still looks good.

    • @HoldandModify
      @HoldandModify  2 года назад

      At first I thought this was spam ad stuff. Instead it’s awesome smack down current Trek stuff. :)

    • @valenrn8657
      @valenrn8657 7 месяцев назад +1

      @@HoldandModify Picard Season 3's Enterprise D's return was good.

    • @HoldandModify
      @HoldandModify  7 месяцев назад

      @@valenrn8657 S3 Picard was fantastic!

  • @SERGIOVIGNUOLO
    @SERGIOVIGNUOLO 2 года назад

    It's always the same story. Ok lightwave was great 25 years ago. But when you spend your time remembering the good times of the past, the present is useless and the future will not exist.
    It's time to accept the truth. Too much delay. Impossible to catch up. We would have to start all over again.
    It's like saying Windows 3.11 could do great things...it did. But it's over!
    I would have loved lightwave to be great again. But it's like saying that an old cathode ray television can compete with today's 8k screens because you can watch starwars rogue one on DVD

    • @HoldandModify
      @HoldandModify  2 года назад +5

      Interesting. I’ve been using the various versions of Lightwave3D for my entire career. I’ve worked on on some amazing shows, films, created some amazing content, won awards, had great success. The software continues to put a roof over my head to this very day. Lightwave3D has been and continues to be an amazing tool in my kit bag. Having said all that. Would I suggest a new aspiring 3D artist invest the money and time in it? No. Download Blender. But, do not dare dismiss all Lightwave3D allowed many artists to accomplish and >still< create to this very day. For those schooled in its ways.
      More importantly these videos are not about “you should be using an Amiga today. You should be using Lightwave3D today. It’s about showing what was there 30+ years ago and how amazing it was. For that time.