Trey would do good to listen while Aaron is teaching him instead of trying for a gotcha moment. Aaron used nothing but The Word. Very good job Aaron. I’ve listened to this twice. Aaron answered every question straight from Gods word.
In Trey's closing, he says, ". . . If you say 'I, I will, I will, I will.', what you're saying is you're faith is in yourself . . ." What is Paul saying when he says in 2 Tim. 4:7, (ESV) "I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith."?
@TheHeavenTestdotnet-gr2ou If it took 35 pages to explain your position, then I can understand why it was rejected. Paul says enough for me in just one passage of scripture Galatians 1:6 (ESV) I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel- Galatians 1:7 (ESV) not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. Galatians 1:8 (ESV) But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. Galatians 1:9 (ESV) As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. Galatians 1:10 (ESV) For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.
@TheHeavenTestdotnet-gr2ou Regarding the subject of "overlooking" (I think I rightly assume you know the scripture): Acts 4:12 (ESV) And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” John 14:15 (ESV) “If you love me, you will keep my commandments. Matthew 28:18 (ESV) And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Matthew 28:19 (ESV) Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:20 (ESV) teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” Mark 16:16 (ESV) Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. John 6:28 (ESV) Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” John 6:29 (ESV) Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” 1 Peter 3:21 (ESV) Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, Galatians 3:25 (ESV) But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, Galatians 3:26 (ESV) for IN Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. Galatians 3:27 (ESV) For as many of you as were baptized INTO Christ have put on Christ. Galatians 3:28 (ESV) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. (If you aren't baptized into Christ, then you are not even one with the people who believe like you do.) Colossians 2:11 (ESV) In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, Colossians 2:12 (ESV) having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. Acts 8:36 (ESV) And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?” Acts 8:38 (ESV) And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him. Acts 10:47 (ESV) “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” Acts 10:48 (ESV) And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days. Romans 6:3 (ESV) Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? Romans 6:4 (ESV) We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. Romans 6:5 (ESV) For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. Your mother is safe!
I served with some wonderful people as an elder and teacher in a calvinist denomination, but left after 30+ years. I am now a member of a church of Christ. I've watched all 6 of these debates and I'll say that Trey exemplifies the approach to bible teaching I'm much too familiar with: establish the doctrinal narrative first at great length, then at the end toss in a scripture verse or two. At times, Trey doesn't even bother with using scripture at all. He says otherwise, but he really wants the listener to just believe him. Regarding OSAS, we know the serpent was lying when he said in Genesis 3:2, "You surely shall not die." Today's calvinists are speaking the same language. Thank you, Aaron, for adhering to many straightforward, easy-to-understand passages that speak to this issue clearly and concisely. Calvinists are eager to help us misunderstand, but it's very clear.
I walked away from Catholic church 3 years ago, I'm 61 so it isn't easy dealing with the guilt they used, indulgences, sacraments, giving more of money time talent and treasure. Nothing was good enough. I want to believe in OSAS, however there's verses galore in which Jesus warns of walking away, not being ready, and not receiving and acting on the Gospel completely. Which seems to me to hint of keeping on the path which is narrow. These aren't works so much as aligning ourselves with God in obedience which was what he demanded of Adam and Eve. An online pastor of Baptist church said in a sermon his friend Chuck was in heaven cuz he said a prayer accepting Jesus and cried in Highschool.However, his friend died without showing any fruits, change of lifestyle, or attending any Christian church! He insisted he'd still see his friend cuz of OSAS! That implied to me the Pastor was lying to himself or others and that he didn't trust God's judgment which is more terrifying. I don't think it's one or the other. God is sovereign and it's best to not mess around. It's not easy to lose your salvation, but if you treat God's grace cheaply you just might. Ppl still have self-will and can divorce Jesus just like a spouse. Sorry to be crude but I hope you get the picture.
@kevinking-kf2lb Dang! You attended a horrible church. Seems they called themselves coC but surely weren't. Mind saying where this place is? I agree. That place was a cult, but they weren't children of Christ if what you say is true. But I can tell you, the brothers and sisters at the church my family attend are not at all like that. Nor any other coC congregation I'm acquainted with.
Notice how Tray focuses ignoring the tense of scripture , but Aaron focuses on the proper tense context in order to find the true interpretation of scripture. Great job Aaron you did a great job at explaining scripture in context.
OSAS IS TRUTH ASK JESUS CHRIST and see what He says In JOHN Ch 3 vs16 ASK Jesus Christ if CAN or WILL ,,,,,un.. Redeem his OWN Or abort them ? Can A Child of God be ...UN... BORN AGAIN ?
“This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light, and there is absolutely no darkness in him. If we say, “We have fellowship with him,” and yet we walk in darkness, we are lying and are not practicing the truth. If we walk in the light as he himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.” - 1 John 1:5-7 If we are born again but do not follow after Jesus by walking in righteousness and obedience the salvation of God is not in us. Although, if we continue to follow Jesus in obedience then salvation will continue to be with us. The Bible does not say that Jesus will unredeem us, but it does say IF we walk away from God into sin we will be choosing death not life. In other words we choose to be redeemed in faithful obedience and we choose to condemn ourselves in unfaithful disobedience.
@@TheHeavenTestdotnet-gr2ou Writing a paper on a topic doesn’t make a person an expert. The bible was written so that we could understand and obey the teachings of God. I have changed my perspective about different topics multiple times in my study of the Bible. I try my best to go into a text looking for the answer to a question instead of looking for a text that will support a belief or opinion.
I used to be a once saved always saved girl myself. Until the Lord convicted me and washed me from a lifestyle of sin. A once Born Again child of God gloriously filled with the spirit I fell back into sin and for 5 years was blindly living a life of sin all the while thinking that I was a child of God. I even went to church in this condition and once convicted it took me a YEAR for my eyes to fully be open to the height that I had fallen from. The spirit of God began to minister to me and I began to see just exactly what had happened and why. This once saved always saved Doctrine was nothing more than a license to sin and live in it without conviction because the light had been removed and the spirit was absent! I was blinded once again in sin just as if I had never been saved... but I thought I was saved. as the spirit of God began to minister more and more I went to him in prayer and I said you have shown me the truth now show me what I can do. so here I am. John 15 1-10Jesus clearly states that if a man remains in him bearing fruit then shall he be my disciples. He States every branch in me that bears no fruit is taken away and burned. He did not say once connected always connected there's a contingency based upon remaining in him. Remaining in the Vine. The problem that occurs is that folks do not remain in the Vine. When they don't remain in the Vine they do not produce fruits unto repentance scripture is clear that father God will cut it down and it is to be burned. This is parallel to what Paul spoke of in Hebrews chapter 6 and verse 8 in that which Bears thorns and Briars is rejected near to cursing whose end is to be burned. 2 Peter 2 amplifies this ..vs 20 for if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled and overcome the latter end is worse for them than the beginning for it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness then after they had known it to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them but this is happened unto them according to the true proverb the dog is turned again to his own vomit and the sow has returned to her wallowing in the mud. Ezekiel 18:24 “But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die" Folks have been bamboozled by the once saved always saved lie. It's the same lie that Satan presented to Eve in the Garden of Eden. It's the same old tactic with a different label. Genesis 3:4 and the serpent said to the woman YOU SHALL NOT SURELY DIE for God does know that in the day that you eat thereof then your eyes shall be opened and you shall be as Gods knowing Good and Evil. In the same way this false Doctrine teaches sins are forgiven past present and future...it teaches no need for repentance or self-examination why, you are above sinning...past present and future sin is abolished. You've already received your crown!! Live as you like..when scripture is very clear from Isaiah 59 that sin is the number one thing that SEPARATES us from God. it neglects the fact that we need to have a clean conscience before God. It denies that we have to be ready waiting and watching for the Master's return. Ready waiting and watching requires self-examination and a repentant heart before the throne of grace. if you're once saved always saved you have no need to walk in holiness and without it the Bible says None will see the Lord. Once saved always saved is a cloak for sin when the Bible says to submit ourselves and humble ourselves and to crucify our flesh. Once once saved always saved is quite possibly one of the largest deceptions and contributors to the great Falling Away spoken of in second Thessalonians 2 and 1st Timothy chapter 4. While it promises comfort and eternal security it is a false security and a very deceptive slippery slope AWAY from Christ and OUTSIDE of the vine to those who wrap themselves in it. You have no need of Him any longer! You've believed the lie! Jude explained this deseptive doctrine to perfection..For certain people have crept in unnoticed [just as if they were sneaking in by a side door]. They are ungodly persons whose condemnation was predicted long ago, for they distort the grace of our God into decadence and immoral freedom [viewing it as an opportunity to do whatever they want], and deny and disown our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. 5 Now I want to remind you, although you are fully informed once for all, that [e]the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe [who refused to trust and obey and rely on Him This Doctrine portrays only the love of God and it neglects the Holiness of God. God has not nor will he ever change for he has said I am the Lord I change not. One is either born again or they are not. They either have the spirit of God or they do not. if they are born again then they will not remain in their sin or continue in a lifestyle of sin and still have the Holy Spirit for the scriptures are very clear that it is sin that separates us from God. A child of God will not run around and Tout that they are above falling, they fear God, humble themselves understanding that he REQUIRES abiding in him, faithful service and a commited life to overcoming the World the Flesh and the devil just as Christ did but also knowing and Remembering The Words of Christ that any man putting his hand to the plow and then turn back is not fit for the kingdom of God. They begin to work out their own salvation with fear and trembling just as Paul said. They walk in daily communion and obedience to the savior. it's my prayer that anyone reading this would carefully consider through the lens of scripture where they stand. That they would examine the scriptures for themselves and let the spirit of God teach them and direct them and guide them into all truth. Jesus says straight is the gate and narrow is the way that leads to life and few are found therein. once saved always saved is a very welcomed and famously preached Doctrine by many respected pastors but if you could have a bird's eye view into the throne room where they stand and give an account for what they have taught in error I'm sure one would shutter in fear... Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour.. 1 Peter 5:8
The Lord Jesus Christ paid the price for ALL the World's sin, 2 Corinthians 5 19-21kjv. He shed his blood on the Cross for our redemption and for the forgiveness of sins, Ephesians 1 7kjv. All you have to do is believe that the Lord Jesus Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again the 3rd day and you will be saved, 1 Corinthians 15 1-4kjv. You will then be sealed with the Holy Spirit of Promise, Ephesians 1 13-14kjv. Both Jew and Greek (Gentile) are saved by this Gospel, Romans 1 16kjv, and we refer to Romans to Philemon for our salvation. Ephesians 2 8-9kjv teaches no works for salvation. Please look up rightly dividing the Word of Truth, 2 Timothy 2 15kjv.
@@happydays310 Cherry-picking Bible verses is deadly. In fact, it can even be used by the enemy as the devil did in Genesis with Eve and in the NT with Jesus. At least, interact with other verses that clearly show you can fall away from the grace of God. If we keep reading into the text, God may one day say to us, "Thy will be done."
@@pmarker Rightly dividing the Word of Truth, 2 Timothy 2 15kjv is not cherry picking verses. Paul wrote this to teach us that there are dispensations in the Bible and that God was teaching the Jews in one part of the Bible and that once the Jews rejected Jesus Christ and his teaching he then turned to the Gentiles. I suggest you learn to rightly divide the Word of Truth, 2 Timothy 2 15kjv.
@@happydays310 I thought your response to the OP was "odd." You didn't really interact with all the verses that @4nowandlater shared. Ironically, that really didn't reflect 2 Tim 2:15, "... accurately handling the word of truth" NASB (a more literal and thus more accurate translation than the KVJ) Indeed, we are to handle or divide the word correctly. After all, it is His word, not ours.
WILL JESUS CHRIST REDEEME U WHEN U 1ST BELIVE HIM YES OR NO ? WILL HE UN REDEEME U WHEN U STOP BELIVING JESUS CHRIST DOES JESUS DO A GOOD JOB AND THEN DO A BAD JOB AT REDEEMING U 4 EVER ???
@@theodoreritola7641 Jesus ransomed us from sin and reconciled us to God for the forgiveness of those sins but entering the Kingdom of God is something you have to do, and Jesus is the Way you must follow so learn His Words and make your calling and election sure because MANY will not make it bc they are NOT KNOWN to Jesus... to be one of Jesus' disciples you have to continue in His Word (Jn 8:31-32) know and keep His sayings (Matt 7:21-27) , abiding in Him and He in you (John 15) ... loving others as He loved us (John 13)...and to have an entrance to the Kingdom opened unto to you: According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: 4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. 8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. 10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.
Just finished the two opening statements. Notice how Aaron uses ample scriptures to back up his claim where as Trey used little to none. This should be eye opening to anyone who is viewing.
OSAS- 3 verses in the Bible say your name can be blotted out of the book of life; Psalm 69:28, revelation 3:5, 22:19! Never receiving Jesus is not the only way to go to hell Says Matthew 7:21-23 ; verse 23 ‘away from me I never knew you’ does not apply to everybody, Jesus says this twice in verses 21 and 22! “Not everyone will say to me (on that day)……., yes many will say…..” If OSAS was true he would’ve said “everyone and all” instead of “not everyone and Many”! So not everyone will go to hell based on never knowing Jesus, and other verses will back this up as well! you can no longer use Matthew 7:23 or say they were never saved to begin with! Same with 2 Peter 2 “after knowing the Lord, they went back into their vomit as a dog; or back into the mud as a pig wallowing in the mud”. The word ‘knowing’ is the same word in Matthew 7:23, it’s ‘ginosko’ in the Greek- it’s a salvific relationship with Jesus! So you can lose your salvation, says this verse as well! 2 Peter 2:20 “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning!” THEY ARE ENTANGLED IN THE CORRUPTION OF THE WORLD…AGAIN- says this verse! Jude 12 - “twice dead”; Dead in sin, born again, dead again! And there’s many more; Revelation chapters 2 & 3 are full of ultimatums and all Jesus is focused on is our works! Revelation 2: 5 Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place! Revelation 2:14 there are some among you….. 16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. These are just 2 and Jesus says “he who overcomes” , Overcomes is present - future tense, and Jesus says this to all 7 churches even the 2 good ones! You have to stay faithful to the end of your life to go to heaven! John 3:16 is he who continues to believe will have eternal life! it doesn’t say ‘believed’ past tense, you have to maintain your faith to go to heaven! The Greek word ‘believes’ is ‘Pistis’ which basically means faithfulness so faith equals faithfulness, according to the Bible! So if you have problems with this, then you have problems with the word of God, the Bible! You need to study these passages so that you can make it to heaven! If your pastor cannot answer these questions according to what I just said, then you need to leave that church!
Brothers, a soft word turns away wrath, but a hard word stirs up anger. I have seen the comments from junkyard dog, I understand the frustration, but all we can do is deliver the truth in love and hope he receives it. Remember we can plant the seed, and we can water it, but only God can make it grow. God bless gentleman
@junkyarddog sinners don’t go to heaven. Sinners are saved by obeying the Gospel. If you have not obeyed the Gospel REGARDLESS of what a man says. You are not saved. God doesn’t add YOU or me or anyone to HIS BODY without them obeying!
@junkyarddog Whatever you claim, is NOT in the Bible, so it’s new and man made. I say that because of what you show, which is a false doctrine- WHICH IS NOT IN THE BIBLE.
Just take a listen to Aaron’s closing statement… the Word of Truth is so incredibly powerful. Jesus’ sacrifice for all of OUR personal sins is so special. Nothing needs to be added or taken away for the words of God to have an impact!!!
@@kevinhoneycutt238 “For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.” The Holy Ghost is what/who we need. If you haven’t been baptized seek the Lord in this matter. And He will baptize you. It’s the greatest experience ever in life. All hardness is gone. It’s the best experience on earth. I struggled until that happened. Filled and baptized. “If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?” I won’t paste everyone. It’s too many. I can’t believe Christians don’t believe in the Holy Spirit even today. I don’t know how you live as a Christian without Him.
Jesus said, "APART FROM ME you can do nothing" That is precisely why He commanded us to ABIDE IN HIM which is something we can do by trusting in, putting our confidence in, relying upon HIM. In this Jesus was not encouraging believers to rely on themselves but to rely on HIM
THATS WHY I TRUST JESUS CHRIST ONLY NOT MY WORKS AND I DO BLIVE JOHN CH 3 VS 16 JESUS CHRIST GIVES ETERNAL LIFE ONLY BECAUSE I TRUST HIM ONLY TO FORGIVE EVERY SIN I WILL EVER COMMIT PAST PRESENT AND FUTURE BY HIS PRECIOUS BLOOD DEATH AND BARIAL AND RESURECTION FOR ME PERSONALY
ALL ARON FANS DO U BELIVE LORD SHIP SALVATION OR SAVED BY GRACE TREW FAITH ALONE ? I would like to know whats in your heart on this doctrine thank you all
@@theodoreritola7641 I'm not a fan of either but CAPS LOCK IS NOT THE WAY. Also just watch the debate, search the scriptures yourself. Don't depend on catch phrases.
@@Eloign You know what if you want to do your own work for salvation and slap Jesus Christ in the face and tell Him U do not need Hs grace go for it I tried im done with all you WORKERS ,Enjoy Judgement day
It seems Trey doesn't really know what he believes. He contradicts himself over and over again and actually proves Aaron's points numerous times with his own responses! 🤔
Do u belive Jesus Christ preached OSAS yes or no ? I DO READ John ch 3 vs 16JESUS CHRIST said he gives ETERNAL LIFE who are u going to belive that man or GOD ALL MIGHTY that says HE gives you ETERNAL LIFE
Joshua said “ Choose this day who you will serve” Trey says “ Don’t worry about it. Gods already chosen so either you is or either you isn’t his people” . Thankyou Aaron for clear , strait forward Bible teaching from Gods word. No hyperbole. Just straight Bible…. I just can’t believe that Trey denied the direct words of Jesus when he plainly said that he had lost none “EXCEPT“ Judas. Plus all the other plain scripture. SMH
Joshua said, "Choose this day who you will serve. Jesus said, "God or money?" OSAS people said, "I chose God first, and then money since we are always saved."
Here's another tidbit about falling from Grace found in Galatians 5:4. The Calvinist will say regarding "you have fallen from grace," that these people were never truly saved to begin with. However, my question to them is, "how can you fall from grace if you never had it to begin with?" See, if these people were never truly saved, then they never truly had grace,and as a result cannot fall from grace. On the other hand, if they did actually recieve grace, then definitely they can fall from it. It's just the 'logical implicaiton' of the verse. To read it any other way is to do total injustice to the rules of grammar, not to mention God's word. Hope this helps shed even more light on the subject. Blessings!
At 48:38, Trey tries to explain "I will blot him out of My book" from Exodus chapter 32 verse 33 and says that Aaron said "I will blot him out of My book of life." See what Aaron says when he reads this at 22:48. Aaron doesn't quote it as Trey says he does. Notice that Trey actually writes his own meaning into the passage and says "this is the book of the living...this is the census." Trey is rewriting the passage.
Great job Trey and Aaron but I must say not just because I’m a member of the Church of Christ, but simply because the word of God is plain and Aaron you did a magnificent job my brother using scripture to justify your stance not anything else. Scripture is the best commentary on scripture. Rev 2:10 is plain be faithful means that our salvation is conditional you can fall from grace. So many examples of Gods punishment for those who didn’t keep his commandments or obey his word even the angels were cast out of heaven so if he would cast them out apparently there are things that can cause us to loose our salvation if we don’t remain faithful until death. Warnings all throughout the Bible informs us that once saved always saved is FALSE DOCTRINE
The inability to articulate the doctrine well does not make it false. I will try to articulate it according to what you have just said. When you say “our salvation is conditional” yes that is true in that one is only made righteous BY FAITH. Tell me, who has the greater faith: the one who believes that Jesus alone is sufficient to save them to the uttermost, once & for all, & Jesus alone has given them eternal life, once & for all? Or the one who believes that HE must remain faithful to God through HIS obedience & HIS righteousness? Well, if we properly define “being faithful” & “obedience” & “righteousness” according to the new covenant we will see that “being faithful” means continually trusting in the gospel (that we are saved by grace through faith, that all who believe on Jesus shall have eternal life), “obedience” is to believe one is made righteous by faith & to love one another (once saved always saved is unconditional love-those who believe in this gospel will love unconditionally just as Christ does-they will not disqualify anyone, rather they believe SO STRONGLY in the love & faithfulness & work of Jesus Christ that they do not believe ANYONE or ANYTHING can break GOD’S covenant promise to those who believe-therefore they love you with this in mind & never give up on you). “Righteousness” by faith, plain & simple, you can’t describe being righteous any other way because that is the only righteousness that exists in the gospel. Do you really think a once saved always saved person will EVER stop having faith in Jesus?? No, but those who DO NOT believe Jesus is capable of saving them to the uttermost once & for all are ALWAYS IN DOUBT. Hopefully you see how a once saved always saved doctrine CAN BE a very POWERFUL & UNWAVERING faith. The kind of faith that we are SUPPOSED to have. I would be much more concerned if I did NOT have this kind of faith in God to keep His promise. After all, the just shall live by FAITH. That’s what this whole gospel is about-faith in God, faith in the blood of Jesus, faith in the love of God the mercy of God the faithfulness of God the promise of God. I do not say any of this for the sake of “winning an argument” because just one hour ago I did not endorse the “once saved always saved” doctrine, but after reading 2 or 3 comments against the doctrine I thought I would try to see it from a biblical perspective to see if it fits. Hopefully you are as convinced now as I am, but I do believe one must have the doctrine in the right perspective, such as the perspective as (I) described in order for it to be genuine faith & I believe the proof of that is in the unconditional love (I) described here (not really I because I truly believe it was the Holy Spirit speaking through me). I think what you describe as being faithful & enduring & obeying His commandments is indeed what once saved always saved is doing. It just makes it a lot easier to do if I’m being honest because it puts all the burden on Jesus, which I think is exactly the way God intended this to be. Edit: I think a better name for the doctrine is “When your faith is always in Christ you are always saved.”
He isn’t deceived. He’s in love with his mega church paycheck and is fighting tooth and nail to defend his position lest he humble himself to admit he’s as wrong as we all know he is, and these videos go viral. Then by consequence, his paltry paycheck flies out the window too along with his false teachings.
@@youtube6817If that were the case he wouldn’t be here debating to begin with. Very rare to see any mega church pastor willing to be challenged by another biblical scholar. I would say in most cases “once saved always saved” is like a self fulfilling prophecy. The ones who truly believe this will never stop having faith in Jesus. The ones who do not believe this are already at high risk of falling away because they do not believe Jesus will save them. To believe Jesus WILL SAVE YOU is actually saving faith. To those who believe He MIGHT NOT save you, well that’s going to be a very unstable relationship & difficult person to trust. So while it’s not technically true (once saved always saved) I would say the person who is FULLY convinced Jesus will save them is more likely to ENDURE & CONTINUE in the faith.
@@BingoNamo-gb8pz the belief in once saved always saved is true. It's not teaching fruits of the Holy Spirit as being truly saved is the issue. People can say they believe all day long but not be Holy Spirit filled and saved.
@@theodoreritola7641 sir did I ever say I don’t believe that verse or which position I take? No so you should reread what I wrote, stop being emotional, and work on your writing skills.
I’m just now working through all of Aaron’s videos because I love how biblically sound his thoughts are and for these opening statements Trey speaks anecdotally with one scripture not used properly and then Aaron hits you with proper hermeneutical rightly diving the word of God on the topic. I love what you’re doing Aaron and hope to visit your congregation soon. I’m in Nashville!
Paul was at war with the flesh and begged God to take away what tempted him that is when you know the spirit of Christ is in you and you can know you are saved you aren't willfully living in sin as the Christian was who was in adultery with his father's wife and wouldn't repent thanks Aaron for standing firm in the faith
The question is that once saved have never answered is. How much sin can I commit and still be saved? Next question. Why is letters being written to churches is once saved always saved. What to save folks need warnings for. They going to heaven anyway? What is the great falling away in 2 Thessalonians 2:1 -3 if these people were never saved anyway. What branch in John ch 15 : needs to be cut off if they wasn't saved anyway. Last but not least. What do you need to continue with God for if you once saved always saved? Nobody haven't got this one. What do believers need to hide God's Word in their heart like David did if you are saved anyway? People works don't save you . If we fail it isn't Christ or God or the Holy Spirit failing. Stop it. We have a choice. Stay saved.
Yes, but that doesn’t prove OSAS wrong. It’s not sound doctrine because some fool could always decide he doesn’t want to be saved anymore & intentionally deny Jesus. But OSAS is true for those who always believe in Christ.
“Bear fruit in keeping with repentance.” I hope you realize what kind of fruit this is. I’ve yet to see a “once saved always saved” person bearing bad fruit. Do you know why? Because they see God’s love as unconditional therefore they love others in the same way. They NEVER give up on people EVER because they don’t believe God will ever give up on them. So they are in a perpetual state of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, mercy, forgiveness, compassion.
Oops you did it too, keep reading. Vs 7 if you remain in me and my and my word’s remain In you ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. This is to my fathers glory that that you bear much fruit (here it is) showing yourself to be my disciples. These disciples weren’t thrown into the fire. Why? Because they were truly saved. Yah, once they got saved they always remained save.
The Bible says that the Prodigal Son “ came to himself “ . He said “ I will arise and go back to my Fathers house” . The Father did not go get him and drag him back home kicking and screaming. He CHOSE to leave and he CHOSE to come back. Contrary to what Trey teaches.
@KevinKing Mark 16:16 - is the saving Scripture that Aaron referenced I believe. So you are lying and you are looking for attention, so someone can listen to your false narrative of the Scriptures. Jesus said how to be saved. Out of His own mouth. Mark 16:16 WHATEVER you say. What EVER YOU SAY. Regardless OF WHAT YOU SAY. Jesus SAID BELIEVE AND BE BAPTIZED. You are NOT Jesus, so now what do you do? Twist Scripture to fit your narrative? Wont fall for the devils tricks here because I see it. You’re here to start confusion. Nobody is blind to your position. Christ is the head of the Church. Do you reject that as well ? It’s Scripture, literally. Do you reject Jesus being the Son of God? It’s Scripture, literally. Do you believe you must repent or confess before you can be saved???? It’s Scripture, literally. What could you possibly say about Scripture that a child can understand, but you twist and make it say what you want? How do you feel about not caring about what Jesus said and obeying Him?? How does that make you feel ?? You have no ground to stand on.
@@jarvisprice1992how do we know the prodigal son isn’t us before Christ then Christ dies & reconciles us back to God. You do know what “reconcile” means? We are the ministry of reconciliation. Do you really think every believer was saved, walked away, & returned? No, this is talking about us BEFORE CHRIST CAME to reconcile us back to God from when we were separated in the garden of Eden.
Trey is right on one thing, we can never do enough to earn Heaven. That doesn't mean we have nothing to do, or that our actions don't have any bearing on our eternal destination. There are things we must do for what Jesus did to apply to us.
You are very correct. Just that Jesus Christ did all He did doesn't automatically apply to our lives. We must believe first and keep believing and producing good works according to Ephesians 2:10.
@@daycaremortelblesseddaycar4343 Not only that, you must repent of your sins, confess your belief to others, and be immersed in water before your sins are forgiven. Then walk in the light so any other sins you commit are forgiven.
our actions have nothing to do with going to heaven. i steal, a lot, im going to heaven. that person whose reading their bible and preaching a works based salvation is going to hell, and is leading people to hell.
@@luncarmy-et8dz We are not saved by works. We are saved by grace to produce good works, manifesting the fruits of righteousness. Read Ephesians 2:8-10 and stop believing in lies that nourish the works of the flesh. Such shall not enter the kingdom of God .......
People believe they can’t lose salvation because it’s comforting?? I believe it because Jesus said so. I mean, sure, believing what Jesus promised has a certain comfort to it… yet it is humbling.
The “once saved always saved” false doctrine is yet another ploy from satan to keep people complacent in their sins, and to keep them from seeking and growing spiritually in God’s word. Excellent job presenting God’s word, Aaron.
It is interesting how in Romans 1:17 we read of St. Paul's use of the term "from faith to faith". Later in Romans, we read of the example of Abraham's salvation through faith. In Romans 4, we read that Abraham had faith in child birth through Sarah when she was 90, and this would be hard to believe would happen except that Abraham believed in the prophecy given back in Genesis 17:19. This was a surprise to Abraham, which means he had a change in faith. This suggests that "from faith to faith" can be thought of as being likened to the scientific discoveries of the solar system from "technology to technology". I accept infant baptism as I sense this to being likened to the reception of an "invisible Bible" that promotes Christian enlightenment. The problem I see with credo-baptism is the strong tendency to view baptism as a result of belief rather than belief as a result of baptism. To Aaron's credit, I sense that his beliefs stem from his study of the Bible more so than the case of Trey, who seems to have come up with his own beliefs, and then interprets scripture to fit in with his beliefs. Both Aaron and Trey trust in the Bible, but I sense that Aaron has a "from faith to faith" evolution such that he keeps of refining his beliefs as he studies the Bible. For example, how would Trey and Aaron interpret these verses from Romans 2 (NKJV): 2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your [a]impenitent heart you are [b]treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
1 Corinthians 5:1-5 "It is actually reported that there is sexually immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among the pagans...you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that he spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord." I don't know what "deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh..." looks like today, but it appears that Paul is saying that they are to be left to their devices and the result will be the destruction of their mortal bodies, not their spirit. Sexual immorality had crept into the church at Corinth, nowhere does Paul say that these people were not saved, but rather he instructs the church to not associate themselves with them (1 Cor. 5:9). Churches that do not address sexual immorality WITHIN the church are erring from scripture. I've heard way too many sermons from preachers that condemn the sexual sins of people outside of the church and rarely have I seen it actually addressed and action taken against sexual immoral church members. Demas fell in love with the world and left Paul, was he saved (2 Timothy 4:10)? Peter denied Christ 3x, "But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 10:33 Did Peter lose his salvation or was he not saved yet when he denied Christ 3x?
@@3165 This is I Corinthians 5:5 (NKJV): 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. According to many OSAS folks, salvation is given by faith alone in the finished work of Christ alone. If this is true, then how could this sinful person’s spirit be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus through something involving the destruction of his flesh? I view St. Peter’s denial as his spiritual death as the answer to the question posed by Jesus to St. Peter in John 13:38. I view John 21 as the story of how He rose from this death on the 3rd day (John 21:14 because Jesus is the light of the world) as he repented to the love of Jesus and subsequent walking in newness of life after the form of water baptism described in John 21:7-9.
@@raykidder906 Hi Ray, I enjoy healthy discussion and I'm not looking to get into a fight. So, if there is something that you think is attacking, it is not my intention. - I'm not a calvinist. I believe Ephesians 1:13-14 "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory." > So the big question is: when does a person receive the Holy Spirit? It is clear that people receive the holy spirit "after ye believed" (no conditions/works) Romans 4:5 I'm OSAS, as in "Once sealed, always sealed" 😉 This topic always leads me to 2 questions: 1. What works are necessary to meet God’s approval for righteousness? 2. How many works are necessary? - 1 Cor. 6:18 "Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body." I think sexual immorality is a sin against the body which ultimately leads to physical death, not spiritual (STD's/HIV). * I don't think Peter was in danger of losing his salvation when he denied Christ. My point was more to focus on the fact that Peter failed in the flesh. You can see his reaction when the rooster crowed the third time, he was crushed and repentive (Luke 22:62)
@@3165 The verses of Acts 19:1-5 suggest that the reception of the Holy Spirit is contingent upon being first baptized into the body of Christ with water in the name of Jesus, and then having the right religious beliefs, and then having the laying on of hands by a church official such as a bishop. This reception of the Holy Spirit may be evidenced by speaking in tongues and/or prophesying. A person who has baptism and the right faith will be made to drink of the one Holy Spirit as per I Corinthians 12:13. It seems possible that a person such as myself can have the Holy Spirit without a miraculous gift, as per the rhetorical question of I Corinthians 6:19. The laying on of hands appears to be the bestowal of a specific gift for edification of the body of Christ, and not so much as an act of salvation. There are no works that earn salvation, but a person who has received the circumcision of the heart will necessarily do the good works like the gentiles mentioned in Romans 2:14-15 do. There are some Christians who think such gentiles are non-Christians, but this does not make sense in view of how St. Paul mentioned the universal slavery to sin of those who are without Christ.
Aaron: *Reads Scripture* Trey: "You read it so literal & take it out of context." Trey's 'context' is Reformed Theology. It is really sad and I pray that he will take God's Word for what it says and not reading into the Scriptures his preconceived ideas before it is too late.
@@aletheia8054 Are you saying I was predestined/decreed by God to make the above comment? or was I free to do so? Here is a small sampling of passages that have something to do with "free will"; Jos 24:15 "And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." Isa 55:6 Seek the LORD while He may be found, Call upon Him while He is near. 7 Let the wicked forsake his way, And the unrighteous man his thoughts; Let him return to the LORD, And He will have mercy on him; And to our God, For He will abundantly pardon. Eze 18:30 "Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways," says the Lord GOD. "Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin. 31 "Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel? 32 "For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies," says the Lord GOD. "Therefore turn and live!" 1Co 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it. 2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. 2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. Etc. Etc.
@@stephenjohnson505 Yes I’m saying you are determined by God to do anything. Including make comments on RUclips. I’ve been through all of those verses, so many times. I can’t respond at all that in a RUclips comment.
@@aletheia8054 OK. If we are having a predetermined discussion it doesn't seem to make much sense to continue anyways I suppose. I just really don't understand how this idea meshes with any of those verses I quoted, especially I Cor 10:13, if God also determines for Christians to sin? No need to respond further if you don't want to, I mean, determined to. :)
Finally finished all 6 videos. My eyes have really been opened to how many problems the calvinists have. So many questions they can’t or refuse to answer.
Pretty sure Trey won’t ever admit how wrong he is because his *cozy mega church paycheck* literally depends on deflecting the truth. Clearly he is an expert at it and I believe he knows he is wrong and doesn’t care. Aaron presented the truth with more than enough scriptural evidence in context to back it up. Yet Trey refuses to admit he’s wrong or show any kind of humility. He’s a false teacher and he knows it. His attitude reminds me of these people Jesus spoke of: Matthew 10:13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you. Matthew 10:14 *And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.*
Ironic that you say that because the message they were preaching from house to house is “believe on the Lord Jesus & you shall be saved, and thy house” which is once saved always saved in a nutshell. The gospel is not complicated.
@@BingoNamo-gb8pzdo you really think that’s all they taught. Just one sentence and nothing else? Believe means to give your life to Him. They knew what covenant meant.
@@Rileyed I can get into Harvard without ever being taught one thing by Harvard. Why do you assume I am not willing to be educated by Harvard after being accepted? Isn’t it more reasonable to believe I wanted to get into Harvard & wanted to be educated by Harvard & wanted to become a Harvard alumni?
I’m only halfway through this and I can tell you right now I’m just so grateful for you, Aaron. I have studied the subject pretty extensively, and you have taught me a new things. It’s unbelievable what the blind will say and do when they really don’t want to believe something that is true. I have had this debate with many people, and it’s almost always the same. Sadly, they will defend their hopes and tickled tears, sometimes aggressively and without any true Spirit of Christ. 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 I will lift Trey up in my prayers.
What are you going to do when there are so many non COC members in Heaven? Maybe even some former “disfellowshipped” former COC members? There are some precious saints in the COC and I’m sure you are as well, but being married to a FORMER COC preachers daughter and witnessing the absolute devastating effects this theology had on their family, I just feel bad. Anytime you see a works based form of theology, which the COC very much is, it’s just not biblical…
What are we going to do when we see people who obey the gospel in heaven? Rejoice, of course. The theology is sound and biblical. Reformed theology is what’s anti biblical. The TULIP is a flower planted by Satan.
SO U BELIVE U HAVE TO DO OTHER THAN BELIVE JESUS ON;Y 4 SALVATION DO U BELIVE JOHN CH 3 VS 16? WHAT IF U DIDNT LIVE IN THE TIME OF THE TRIBULATION How did they become saved?
Trey has spent a few videos with Jeremiah Nortier on their channels saying that he thought Aaron Gallagher quit this series and doubted that Aaron would come back. Please note this video, Trey. You knew better.
Faith: Hebrews 11 F: facts in focus. It provides evidence of things not seen. A: active obedience I: intimacy with God T:tenacious valor: hang on tenaciously H:hope then enables one to be so committed to God that nothing deters them from the path.
Trey: emotions, feelings, and what he wants to believe. (and does not listen to Aaron's perfectly explained breakdown of scripture) Aaron: Bible and what God wants us to believe.
Romans 8:38-39, my favorite and most beautiful passage of scripture. I’m surprised that nobody pointed out that - It says that nothing can separate us from THE LOVE of God. It doesn’t say it can not separate us from Him. Or from salvation into our eternal consequences. My child might choose to excommunicate me when he is older, live a life of sin and deserve the consequences for his actions, but it wouldn’t make me love him any less. Just like we can turn from God and face the consequences of that choice but He still loves us and wishes we would have come back to him. This was a wonderful debate, I just wish you both could have somehow left your pride at the door.
God bless you both and all my brethren, We serve a God that truth and integrity is most important. Faith by grace we are saved and because we are saved and Love The Lord we work because we also love our brethren just as we love ourselves. Scripture says we can loose our salvation . Example ; Exo 32:32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. Exo 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Just some examples. Once saved always saved is not sound doctrine. God bless us all on our journey for biblical truth.
Just FYI for anyone watching this not familiar with the doctrine Trey affirms. Starting at 6:11, according to Trey's theology, he has absolutely no, zilch, zero idea if that has happened to him. He will tell you it has, but don't let that fool you. According to his theology, there is no confidence that it has because if he "falls away" one day, that just means he was never saved in the first place.
It is so sad that Trey really believes Aaron takes verses out of context when Trey actually does this with almost every scripture he "interprets" . It's actually delusional. 😔 Aaron did a great job defending the truth without anger. Great example.
Praise God for my dear Brother Aaron and for him continuing to walk worthy of our calling in Christ Jesus. I am thankful for ur love for people cause trey called u satan, and u were patient with a person who never understood about his salvation, he is like what Hebrews 6:4-6 says.
1John 3:15 *whoever hates his BROTHER is a murderer and you know that no murderer has ETERNAL LIFE ABIDING IN HIM* Christians according to John can loose eternal life.
You’re applying “brother” in a broad sense to someone who is a believer. If you do that then you are calling the one who hates a “believer” since that would mean that only a brother (believer) can hate a brother (believer). So then this would mean the believer is not a believer?? That’s silly. Brother can also mean the way Paul uses it when he says he wishes that his Jewish brothers would come to Christ.
Surprised aaron didnt bring up 1 john ch 5. Where it literally says Believers and then goes on to describe sin that leads to death. I dont know how much more clear it could be?. So confused as to how osas proponents work so hard to deny these verses.
If you remove 1jn.1:7 - Aaron’s whole position falls flat. The whole, repent to stay saved view. 1john1 is taken out of context .I would not build a whole doctrine on a verse that could be referring to unbelievers/antinomianists
@@daletrade5178but there’s not only 1 verse in the Bible that warns us. If you take out 1Jn 1:7 there’s Hebrews 6:4 and Hebrews 10:26. Read it and meditate on it.
At the 12:58 mark, "I guess we could do what ever we want" is what He said. He sounds like the Aleister Crowley followers motto of "do as thou wilt", instead of what a real Christian should believe.
HOW does Jesus Christ UN ,REDEEM HIS OWN AFTER HE REDEEMS HIS OWN ? WHEN YOUR REDEEMED YOUR GODS 4 EVER PERIOD . your so blinded by Satan u cant see your hand in front of your face SPIRITUALY. I mean that in love
Yes, everyone who calls upon His name to be saved. Jesus said He wanted to gather the Jews as a hen gathers her brood but THEY would not. God only gives grace to the humble. He resists the proud.
He referenced a lot of scriptures. Maybe you just don’t recognize them because he didn’t say “this is found in Ephesians 1:14” but if you know the word you know he’s referencing several biblical passages. I do this too. I’m terrible at remembering what book & chapter & verse I’m referencing. Referencing doesn’t always have to be a direct quote either.
I feel so sorry for Trey and the level of delusion the enemy has blinded him with. Imagine having to stand before the Lord on the last day, having to explain why you profited off attacking the Lords church. He needs our earnest prayers to humble himself in sight of the Lord.
Imaging standing before The Father saying, “look what I did” rather than, “Look what Christ did!” True obedience flows from the latter. Blessings to you.
@@TulipErasmus respectfully, following the commands of Christ isn't "look what i did" ironic that you mention true obedience, yet don't think its absolutely necessaryto obey Christ or his Apostles concerning the need to do it or the reasons for it.
2:31:41 Note what Trey said he did for salvation. He "looked to Christ." "Looked" is a work. Looking is an action. Trey says he did that as he tells Aaron that his doctrine is about "I, I, I, here is what I did to bring me to completion." Calvinism can never describe salvation without describing their works that they did to get there. It never fails. It's the self-refuting killswitch that deflates their argument every single time.
John 3 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. John 6 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which SEETH the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. What is your exegesis of this in ight of your statement. Do you believe absolutely nothing happens to the person who God has shined the light of the Gospel into their heart? Believing is the work of God - John 6:29. Not our work, his work. Not sure if you're trying to divorce our response to Grace as work or not, do you have faith or not.
@@destroyingtheworksofthedev9349 "What is your exegesis of this in ight of your statement." - It is the same as what I have inferred in my initial comment. Regarding John 3: a person must absolutely believe, for this is scriptural. - Regarding John 6, belief is a work of God, just the same a baptism and faith (Colossians 2:12). Note that more is required in this passage, though. "Seeing," "beholding," or whatever work a particular translation uses is what must be done. "Do you believe absolutely nothing happens to the person who God has shined the light of the Gospel into their heart?" - My initial comment said "salvation." This is not a good inference on your part. "Believing is the work of God - John 6:29. Not our work, his work. Not sure if you're trying to divorce our response to Grace as work or not, do you have faith or not." - No one denies this, but I haven't said that believing is not a work of God. That was you. - You have qualified a work ("response") as "ours" in the same way Trey tries to ascribe certain works to God while saying "man can do nothing." He then lists what man must do (which is definitely not "nothing") in order to have salvation. In the case of this video, he said one must "look to Christ." That's one of what you call "our responses." Responding is also one of our works. - I'm not divorcing anything from anything. Scripture puts two parties in the court.
@@bookchapterverse6830 You're over intellectualizing this - you never even arrived at an ultimate here. The notion of total depravity is that on their OWN men cannot respond to the Gospel until they are made alive, born again, quickened, then since they HAVE the spirit they are capable of believing, receiving, accepting, repenting. I am not even sure which you are advocating for, that the scriptures contradict, or both sovereign grace and Arminianism are both heresy.
@@destroyingtheworksofthedev9349 , you are correct: you are "not even sure which I am advocating for" because all that I have said from my initial comment is that Trey, a guy who says "man can do nothing," is advocating man to do something. "Doing nothing" does not include "looking," which is Trey's self-contradictory position. If you missed that which has been no secret since my first comment, then I'm not the one guilty of over-intellectualizing anything. Total depravity is an unscriptural heresy. In John 12:42-43, can men not respond to the gospel until they have been affected by your given checklist? The Holy Spirit tells us that "nevertheless many even of the rulers believed in Him [Jesus], but because of the Pharisees they were not confessing Him, for fear that they would be put out of the synagogue; for they loved the approval of men rather than the approval of God." The Holy Spirit tells us that they believed, that is to say that they had that wonderful work of God you mentioned. But then again, you said they were incapable. Their belief means, according to you, that they had been made alive, born again, and quickened...but this wasn't the case in Scripture.
@@bookchapterverse6830 So when the scripture says - "I know that there is NOTHING GOOD IN ME(that is in my flesh) you say there is, There is NO ONE THAT SEEKS AFTER God, NO ONE HAS UNDERSTANDING NO NOT EVEN ONE, you say there is? Where does it say in John 12 these men who believed were not first quickened? As for Trey, I am not a Calvinist and I never make statements that say men literally do nothing. Clearly we become capable when we're not, once God makes us alive - Ephesians 2:1,5 John 5:21 Psalm 80:18-19. So many more scriptures - the entire picture of salvation in John 11 has to do with Lazarus being dead and Jesus telling him to come forth, it never mentions after he makes his free will decision to do so. The son quickens whom he will, this is not in any way implying it's about us making a choice - exercising will. John 1:13 says it's not by the will of man, James 1:18 says it's by God's will. If you're not totally depraved at the start, then what are you? A little better than the unbeliever? That is mind blowing. The heart is deceitfully wicked above all things?? Yea you're right - we're not totally depraved 🙄
I agree with Trey that our works must be motivated by love and not out of fear in order to be pleasing to God. Conversely, a self indulgent sinner who does not repent does not properly correct his behavior through works of the law based on fear. If he keeps on sinning without being sanctified then he does not love God, and is not in a state of salvation. He needs to love God because God first loved him as perceived through his faith. This litmus test is from I John 3 (NKJV): 14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. 15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
Atv46:22 section where Trey begins to speaknon how lampstand refers to the church,not salvation he doesnt even realize he just proved our point.. Christvis the head of the church his body of which he is the savior,the church is made up of those that are saved,thus to remove the church,Christ would be removing those that saved.. this definitely speaks of salvation
Okay but why?? Because they did not BELIEVE in the UNCONDITIONAL love of God. He says they ABANDONED their first love. Once saved always saved NEVER abandon their first love because it is UNCONDITIONAL so they love others UNCONDITIONALLY.
Trey, the scriptures are clear. You are the one that is doing scriptural gymnastics. If you do not complete your assignments and attend classes, you will not get your degree. It's that simple. I pray you will have an open heart
If you are once saved always saved, there is absolutely no reason read what Paul wrote to correct in 1 Cor 5 or any of his other letters. No reason for Peter to write, nothing. If salvation is impossible to lose there is no reason for any of the prophets to Israel. Once saved always saved makes no logical sense.
@junkyarddog God with his commandments in the old and the New Testaments, apparently wants us to do good works. So to help you out, and answer your Conundrum , if you walk in the light of Jesus is in the light, the blood of Jesus will clinch of moss in. If you don’t walk in the light as he doesn’t like the blood of Jesus will not clear from all sin, first John 1:7. That means you’re living free from any willful sin; you’re not sinning in a ritual way Or addiction problem that is a sin! OSAS- 3 verses in the Bible say your name can be blotted out of the book of life; Psalm 69:28, revelation 3:5, 22:19! Never receiving Jesus is not the only way to go to hell Says Matthew 7:21-23 ; verse 23 ‘away from me I never knew you’ does not apply to everybody, Jesus says this twice in verses 21 and 22! “Not everyone will say to me (on that day)……., yes many will say…..” If OSAS was true he would’ve said “everyone and all” instead of “not everyone and Many”! So not everyone will go to hell based on never knowing Jesus, and other verses will back this up as well! you can no longer use Matthew 7:23 or say they were never saved to begin with! Same with 2 Peter 2 “after knowing the Lord, they went back into their vomit as a dog; or back into the mud as a pig wallowing in the mud”. The word ‘knowing’ is the same word in Matthew 7:23, it’s ‘ginosko’ in the Greek- it’s a salvific relationship with Jesus! So you can lose your salvation, says this verse as well! 2 Peter 2:20 “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning!” THEY ARE ENTANGLED IN THE CORRUPTION OF THE WORLD…AGAIN- says this verse! Jude 12 - “twice dead”; Dead in sin, born again, dead again! And there’s many more; Revelation chapters 2 & 3 are full of ultimatums and all Jesus is focused on is our works! Revelation 2: 5 Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place! Revelation 2:14 there are some among you….. 16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. These are just 2 and Jesus says “he who overcomes” , Overcomes is present - future tense, and Jesus says this to all 7 churches even the 2 good ones! You have to stay faithful to the end of your life to go to heaven! John 3:16 is he who continues to believe will have eternal life! it doesn’t say ‘believed’ past tense, you have to maintain your faith to go to heaven! The Greek word ‘believes’ is ‘Pistis’ which basically means faithfulness so faith equals faithfulness, according to the Bible! So if you have problems with this, then you have problems with the word of God, the Bible! You need to study these passages so that you can make it to heaven! If your pastor cannot answer these questions according to what I just said, then you need to leave that church!
You are correct; OSAS- 3 verses in the Bible say your name can be blotted out of the book of life; Psalm 69:28, revelation 3:5, 22:19! Never receiving Jesus is not the only way to go to hell Says Matthew 7:21-23 ; verse 23 ‘away from me I never knew you’ does not apply to everybody, Jesus says this twice in verses 21 and 22! “Not everyone will say to me (on that day)……., yes many will say…..” If OSAS was true he would’ve said “everyone and all” instead of “not everyone and Many”! So not everyone will go to hell based on never knowing Jesus, and other verses will back this up as well! you can no longer use Matthew 7:23 or say they were never saved to begin with! Same with 2 Peter 2 “after knowing the Lord, they went back into their vomit as a dog; or back into the mud as a pig wallowing in the mud”. The word ‘knowing’ is the same word in Matthew 7:23, it’s ‘ginosko’ in the Greek- it’s a salvific relationship with Jesus! So you can lose your salvation, says this verse as well! 2 Peter 2:20 “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning!” THEY ARE ENTANGLED IN THE CORRUPTION OF THE WORLD…AGAIN- says this verse! Jude 12 - “twice dead”; Dead in sin, born again, dead again! And there’s many more; Revelation chapters 2 & 3 are full of ultimatums and all Jesus is focused on is our works! Revelation 2: 5 Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place! Revelation 2:14 there are some among you….. 16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. These are just 2 and Jesus says “he who overcomes” , Overcomes is present - future tense, and Jesus says this to all 7 churches even the 2 good ones! You have to stay faithful to the end of your life to go to heaven! John 3:16 is he who continues to believe will have eternal life! it doesn’t say ‘believed’ past tense, you have to maintain your faith to go to heaven! The Greek word ‘believes’ is ‘Pistis’ which basically means faithfulness so faith equals faithfulness, according to the Bible! So if you have problems with this, then you have problems with the word of God, the Bible! You need to study these passages so that you can make it to heaven! If your pastor cannot answer these questions according to what I just said, then you need to leave that church!
@junkyarddog unfortunately for you, there’s no shortcuts in the kingdom of God! I studied the Bible for 30+years, so that doesn’t count, but a PhD does in the eyes of God better? You’re acting like a CNN pundit ; there’s about 11 verses that I mentioned or so, so if you don’t wanna read those, you admittedly want to stay brainwashed in your ecclesiology, and you will answer for that. “out of the overflow of the heart, The mouth speaks,” so God sees it, even I see it, & he sees it even more.! Stop ignoring the Bible. You’re ignoring God in the process ! I just proved it with those 11 verses. Matthew 12:36 every idle word will be judged! It takes eight years or so to become a lawyer or a doctor and God is way more into spiritual things that he is the things of this world so the Bible is going to be deeper than becoming a lawyer or a doctor !
@junkyarddog Takes 8 years to become a lawyer or doctor, and God is into religion more than he is the things of this world, so the Bible is deeper than a PHD! Matthew 12:36 every idle word will be judged, so get off this thread and other religious threads, until you have the right ecclesiology and Soteriology ! James 1 mentions the word religion two times in a positive light!
@junkyarddog 22 years ago I was teaching a Bible study with a guy who graduated from Dallas theological seminary DTS and we were Trading teaching every other week! I taught on 911 2001 the kids really were attentive that day , in the projects!
@@BingoNamo-gb8pz I don’t believe what you say I believe in what scripture says. Stop being lazy and open your Bible. Trey uses opinions and out of context scripture to help manipulate his point. Aaron just reads from scripture and lets scripture be his voice.
@@Cobluntzz I know what scripture says. That’s why I said he did reference scriptures. I didn’t say he has the right context or even that I agree with his opinions, but to say he didn’t reference scriptures is a lie.
1:20 Romans 11 question- Trey- "I don't understand your question" smh- The scripture clearly states X - Trey "You are wrong in your reading of that X, it isn't really X it is Y." Sad
I have watched all the episodes regarding this discussion. We have a lot in common. We seem to be disagreeing to agree without realizing this. Trey is still a church of Christ whether he or you and I like it or not. He obviously had a very bad experience where he grew up and went to worship. It was obvious to me that this pain surfaced every time he had no response to what Aaron was explaining by way of scripture; he would always mention that this was his experience in the past. He does not realize that a church of Christ is not subject to or answerable to anybody except the Judge; even elders. No debate is ever won by merely criticizing the other person's argument as "terrible" or "really bad." I pray for Trey and hope that our Lord softens his heart. I cannot understand how anyone could believe this false doctrine of "always saved." Why the need for the cross? Why do we bother if we have predestination {Greatly misunderstood concept}? Why is Paul working so hard to bring the Gospel to everyone and anyone that will listen if he knows that this will not make a difference as Trey's doctrine would have all believe (Philippians 1:21 and many more verses). Why pray at all for forgiveness of sins?
Why the need for the cross??? Once saved always saved only works BECAUSE OF the cross. It is total & eternal dependence on Jesus because of the blood of His cross. Why would I EVER take my faith OUT OF Jesus? I will ALWAYS put my faith in Him therefore I am ALWAYS saved. There is nothing else to cling to but Him.
Throw your Bible in the fire, dance around the fire, worshiping the evil and teach others to do so and see what God has to say on that final day. I pray that none of you do. God will say, Depart from Me... I pray for those that are misled by the faith alone doctrine.
@@Masterchip223001there is nothing we can or cant do than trust fully in His work. No not sinning or obeying the law, no baptism or tiding is gonna save u. Nothing we do or dont can save us but HE. So no one can boast eph 2:8-9. Its a gift of God. Not something we can earn. Nobody deserves to go to heaven cause were al guilty. No one is worthy, only Jesus is and its because our believe in Him, that He declares us worthy and God will let us in
I can’t believe we still argue this. I knew I was saved when I was 8. John 3:16. It’s when I got older and came across false teaching that I started to doubt.
God has predestined but humans don't know who. We are not to decide bc Jesus knows who are God's people and will separate sheep from goats bc wheat and tares look alike but only God knows who are His. God is revealing that those who are saved and obey His will were His people from the foundation of the world.
First let me say Aaron, God bless you and the work you have done for these videos, I am praying for you and appreciate what you are doing for the lord and what he is doing through you. Secondly Trey, I love you, I love your soul, and I want to see you in heaven one day, but the comment you made at around the 1:40:00 mark to the effect of what Aaron said hurt your feelings and that’s why you record members of the church. I have watched all of these debates and because of the amount of snide comments and pejorative statements you have made in all of these debates that Aaron I think has rather graciously let slide, or not addressed, I have a hard time feeling sympathy for you feeling bad about something he said about the doctrine you believe when you have consistently used the phrase “church of christer” intending a negative connotation or “you say that you believe that but you don’t really” insinuating you can see the motive of the person you are speaking on. No one is perfect clearly but I see this as an example of removing the plank from your eye before commenting on the speck in someone else’s. Again I say this in love, I pray for both of you and hope many others pray for me also
@@kevinking-kf2lb I've seen all these videos from beginning to end, and i can't think of a single time where Aaron was insulting to Trey. there may have been something i missed, but what i do not know is that Trey is constantly insulting to Aaron. i don't know how anyone can honestly watch these interactions and think otherwise, unless they are biased to begin with. If Im wrong, give me the time stamp and ill admit my missing it. if i gave you time stamps of Trey insulting Aaron or the church with ad hominem, it would number in the dozens through all 6 videos.
@@kevinking-kf2lb oh know what confirmation bias is. i was asking for your evidence that I'm exhibiting it. you could've just said you had none and are guilty of slander.
David Pawson has noted that salvation, in the Bible comes in three grammatical tenses....past, present, and future, hence the idea of a process....like the one who perseveres to the end, shall be saved....
I think it is crazy that Tray starts by comparing Aaron with Satin twisting scripture. Although, it seems that Tray is doing a lot more twisting of scripture in order to comfort people in a life of sin.
this debate was over after Aaron's introduction. The Bible clearly teaches that there is a expectation on how your supposed to live. You can't just live anyway you want and still make it in. That doesn't even make any sense. Salvation is not unconditional. There are conditions we have to meet whether people like that or not. I wish people would just be honest and say how they really felt. Don't say that the Bible teaches that we'll always be saved when you know it doesn't. Just be honest and say you don't want to believe that God expects something from you. People just don't like being held accountable at the end of the day. Well despite how any of us feel, we all have to die one day, and we all WILL GIVE AN ACCOUNT.
@junkyarddog Stop defending another man! Don’t you think he can defend himself. You look sorry. You look pitiful running after a man’s doctrine. Aaron this Aaron that. It’s like REGARDLESS of what Trey says, he’s right, to you.
Trey, please tell us how to reconcile eternal security with Mark 16:16. That verse says, "16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believeth not shall be damned." Suppose that I'm eternally secure. Then, there's nothing I can do to lose my salvation. But Mark 16:16 shows that a Christian can go to hell if he stops believing. So if you affirm eternal security and Mark 16:16, you contradict yourself. You imply that though there's nothing you can do to lose your salvation, there's at least one way you can lose it, You can stop believing in Christ. The eternal security doctrine is false and immoral because it can promote license.
Keep reading friend, this doesn't apply to us Mark 16:17-18 KJV [17] And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; [18] they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. We are to come to salvation through Paul's gospel by faith in the blood
@@michaelgardner5986 My friend, I wonder why you doubt that it applies to us. So please tell me whether Judas was a Christian when he died. For me, it's hard to believe that Our Blessed Lord would have made a non-Christian one of the 12. After all, while he preached, his audience would think he was one. Besides, since our Lord is all-knowing, he would have realized that Judas was a non-Christian if he was one. In Matthew 26:24, he suggests Judas would go to hell because he, Chist, says, "The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.” How would Judas have been better off by, say, dying in the womb, if he needed to accept Christ to enter heaven? A fertile human egg can't accept anyone.
This debate was very helpful with my spiritual walk with My Lord and Savior .Man tends to put a heavy yoke upon believers, Jesus Christ has given us a free will and 2 paths, the narrow or the wide road. You must be born again to enter the Kingdom of God ! Do not confuse temptation with sin , God will always have an open door to exit. If we’re lead by the Spirit we will produce good fruit. Love and build up each other for God is love.
Trey had the worst 12 minutes of an opening statement that I've ever heard. He read one scripture from Psalms and that was it. I don't believe in OSAS and his opening did nothing but affirm my belief. Absolutely pitiful.
I believe that saving faith is not a one-time discreet event of faith that is credited to all times ahead even if the believer retracts his faith later in time. Saving faith is enduring faith. That is why the Scripture says: "Today is the day of salvation" (2 Corinth. 6:2). And again: “Today if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness” (Heb. 3:7-8). In Heb. 3:6, the author cautioned that we are Christ’s house “if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing firm to the end”. And again in Heb. 3:14, he repeats that: “For we are partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end”. All these scriptures mean that salvation is a continuum and becomes consummated only if we endure to the end (i.e. if we die in the faith or till Christ comes).
Trey's opening statement saying that Church of Christ members turn their noses up at people struggling with sin is completely not true. I have only seen members try to support other members that have fallen away. No, we dont ignore if a member is in sin and we will confront them if necessary but I've only seen this done in a loving and encouraging manner....not in a "I'm holier than thou and look down on you," way. I just wanted to point out how inaccurate that was.
Is “disfellowshipping” a form on patience and love? What if a person who is saved simply wanted to attend a Baptist church? Are they handled with patience and love?
@@nfcboys1984 I'm not even sure what exactly you are saying. I have only seen members leave the church that chose to leave. Members would be asked to leave if they were committing habitual sin (like adultery for example) and refused to acknowledge their sin and repent. I have never seen anyone forced to leave the church because they attended a Baptist Church. We have members that have attended services at other churches for funeral type arrangements. Why a church member would want to start worshipping at a Baptist Church though doesn't make sense to me if that's what you are referring to.
There are so many verses in the Bible that makes Trey, as others who believe once saved always saved, look foolish. Of course Trey also fits the mold of "the wise made foolish."
My thing is if a person truly is a blood naught born again child of God you’re not gonna gamble with your salvation and find out. One night stands sex out side of marriage is a thing of the past as well as going to bars and clubs getting drunk partying.I hope that makes sense I’m still learning though
I always believed in OSAS, but after this debate, I'm strongly leaning towards believing one can lose ones salvation. Next time Trey needs to be more prepared with biblical facts and cut out the ad hominems and strawman arguments.
If you want a OSAS advocate this is probably not the best choice. I wrote up a report supporting OSAS but not as a doctrine because a person COULD choose to stop putting their faith in Jesus to save them. But as long as your faith is always in Christ you will always be saved.
@BingoNamo-gb8pz I agree with your statement here. The question of OSAS is, can someone who is truly born again become "unborn again"? There are bible passages that clearly indicate anyone who is truly saved will hold fast till the end and nothing will be able to separate us from the love of God and that no one will be able to snatch us from Christ because he upholds us by His power (we don't stay faithful by our own power). But there are also passages that clearly indicate that people who were once saved can become "unsaved" / lose their salvation / stop trusting in God / become apostate.
@@terryolay4613 I think this was more likely to happen in the early church since all of this was very new. Some might have been hesitant to believe Jesus was really the Christ & may have “tested” Christianity but went back to Judaism (most likely to avoid persecution).
It is really difficult to listen to Trey. He does a lot of name-calling and passive-aggressive remarks, and then proceeds to say what the church of Christ believes, which is not the case at all! It’s a form of slander. If Trey was taught wrong, he needs to admit that, and not put forth incorrect accusations about the entire church. Trey appeals to his own emotions rather than to the word of God.
🎼 ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED SMOKING GUN POEM 🎼God told Adam not to eat from the tree 🎼 Satan told Eve to eat from the tree 🎼God told man not to get the mark of the beast 🎼 Satan told man, once saved always saved 🎼🎼🎼🎼🎼🎼🎼🎼🎼🎼🎼🎼🎼🎼🎼
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Trey would do good to listen while Aaron is teaching him instead of trying for a gotcha moment. Aaron used nothing but The Word. Very good job Aaron. I’ve listened to this twice. Aaron answered every question straight from Gods word.
Idk if you watched the whole video or not but they both gave scripture and they both made good points.
JOHN Ch 3 Vs16 IS 100 PERCENT OSAS
DOES JESUS LIE? IN John ch 3 vs 16 when he says that HE gives,,,,,, ETERNAL,,, LIFE TO THOSE WHO BELIVE HIM?
And, to those who don't believe, He doesn't give eternal life. That simple.@@theodoreritola7641
@@theodoreritola7641 OSAS? No, just the opposite. To those who quit believing, He doesn't give eternal life. Very clear.
In Trey's closing, he says, ". . . If you say 'I, I will, I will, I will.', what you're saying is you're faith is in yourself . . ."
What is Paul saying when he says in 2 Tim. 4:7, (ESV)
"I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith."?
Excellent point!!! 🙏🏼
I JUST made this very same point today!!!
@TheHeavenTestdotnet-gr2ou
If it took 35 pages to explain your position, then I can understand why it was rejected. Paul says enough for me in just one passage of scripture
Galatians 1:6 (ESV) I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel-
Galatians 1:7 (ESV) not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
Galatians 1:8 (ESV) But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:9 (ESV) As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:10 (ESV) For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.
@TheHeavenTestdotnet-gr2ou
Regarding the subject of "overlooking" (I think I rightly assume you know the scripture):
Acts 4:12 (ESV) And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
John 14:15 (ESV) “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
Matthew 28:18 (ESV) And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
Matthew 28:19 (ESV) Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Matthew 28:20 (ESV) teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
Mark 16:16 (ESV) Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
John 6:28 (ESV) Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?”
John 6:29 (ESV) Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”
1 Peter 3:21 (ESV) Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Galatians 3:25 (ESV) But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,
Galatians 3:26 (ESV) for IN Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.
Galatians 3:27 (ESV) For as many of you as were baptized INTO Christ have put on Christ.
Galatians 3:28 (ESV) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
(If you aren't baptized into Christ, then you are not even one with the people who believe like you do.)
Colossians 2:11 (ESV) In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,
Colossians 2:12 (ESV) having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.
Acts 8:36 (ESV) And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?”
Acts 8:38 (ESV) And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him.
Acts 10:47 (ESV) “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
Acts 10:48 (ESV) And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.
Romans 6:3 (ESV) Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
Romans 6:4 (ESV) We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
Romans 6:5 (ESV) For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.
Your mother is safe!
I served with some wonderful people as an elder and teacher in a calvinist denomination, but left after 30+ years. I am now a member of a church of Christ. I've watched all 6 of these debates and I'll say that Trey exemplifies the approach to bible teaching I'm much too familiar with: establish the doctrinal narrative first at great length, then at the end toss in a scripture verse or two. At times, Trey doesn't even bother with using scripture at all. He says otherwise, but he really wants the listener to just believe him. Regarding OSAS, we know the serpent was lying when he said in Genesis 3:2, "You surely shall not die." Today's calvinists are speaking the same language. Thank you, Aaron, for adhering to many straightforward, easy-to-understand passages that speak to this issue clearly and concisely. Calvinists are eager to help us misunderstand, but it's very clear.
I walked away from Catholic church 3 years ago, I'm 61 so it isn't easy dealing with the guilt they used, indulgences, sacraments, giving more of money time talent and treasure. Nothing was good enough. I want to believe in OSAS, however there's verses galore in which Jesus warns of walking away, not being ready, and not receiving and acting on the Gospel completely. Which seems to me to hint of keeping on the path which is narrow. These aren't works so much as aligning ourselves with God in obedience which was what he demanded of Adam and Eve. An online pastor of Baptist church said in a sermon his friend Chuck was in heaven cuz he said a prayer accepting Jesus and cried in Highschool.However, his friend died without showing any fruits, change of lifestyle, or attending any Christian church! He insisted he'd still see his friend cuz of OSAS! That implied to me the Pastor was lying to himself or others and that he didn't trust God's judgment which is more terrifying. I don't think it's one or the other. God is sovereign and it's best to not mess around. It's not easy to lose your salvation, but if you treat God's grace cheaply you just might. Ppl still have self-will and can divorce Jesus just like a spouse. Sorry to be crude but I hope you get the picture.
Oh yeah, that pastor's friend Chuck was in his 70s when he died. So from H. S. To 70s he never changed!
encouraging words, you see the pattern that leads to erroneous doctrine.
@kevinking-kf2lb Dang! You attended a horrible church. Seems they called themselves coC but surely weren't. Mind saying where this place is? I agree. That place was a cult, but they weren't children of Christ if what you say is true. But I can tell you, the brothers and sisters at the church my family attend are not at all like that. Nor any other coC congregation I'm acquainted with.
So sorry that you wound up here trying to earn and keep a salvation that is not of human ability.
Notice how Tray focuses ignoring the tense of scripture , but Aaron focuses on the proper tense context in order to find the true interpretation of scripture.
Great job Aaron you did a great job at explaining scripture in context.
OSAS IS TRUTH ASK JESUS CHRIST and see what He says In JOHN Ch 3 vs16 ASK Jesus Christ if CAN or WILL ,,,,,un.. Redeem his OWN Or abort them ? Can A Child of God be ...UN... BORN AGAIN ?
“This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light, and there is absolutely no darkness in him. If we say, “We have fellowship with him,” and yet we walk in darkness, we are lying and are not practicing the truth. If we walk in the light as he himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.”
- 1 John 1:5-7
If we are born again but do not follow after Jesus by walking in righteousness and obedience the salvation of God is not in us. Although, if we continue to follow Jesus in obedience then salvation will continue to be with us.
The Bible does not say that Jesus will unredeem us, but it does say IF we walk away from God into sin we will be choosing death not life. In other words we choose to be redeemed in faithful obedience and we choose to condemn ourselves in unfaithful disobedience.
@@TheHeavenTestdotnet-gr2ou
Writing a paper on a topic doesn’t make a person an expert. The bible was written so that we could understand and obey the teachings of God. I have changed my perspective about different topics multiple times in my study of the Bible. I try my best to go into a text looking for the answer to a question instead of looking for a text that will support a belief or opinion.
I used to be a once saved always saved girl myself. Until the Lord convicted me and washed me from a lifestyle of sin. A once Born Again child of God gloriously filled with the spirit I fell back into sin and for 5 years was blindly living a life of sin all the while thinking that I was a child of God. I even went to church in this condition and once convicted it took me a YEAR for my eyes to fully be open to the height that I had fallen from.
The spirit of God began to minister to me and I began to see just exactly what had happened and why. This once saved always saved Doctrine was nothing more than a license to sin and live in it without conviction because the light had been removed and the spirit was absent! I was blinded once again in sin just as if I had never been saved... but I thought I was saved. as the spirit of God began to minister more and more I went to him in prayer and I said you have shown me the truth now show me what I can do. so here I am.
John 15 1-10Jesus clearly states that if a man remains in him bearing fruit then shall he be my disciples. He States every branch in me that bears no fruit is taken away and burned. He did not say once connected always connected there's a contingency based upon remaining in him. Remaining in the Vine. The problem that occurs is that folks do not remain in the Vine. When they don't remain in the Vine they do not produce fruits unto repentance scripture is clear that father God will cut it down and it is to be burned. This is parallel to what Paul spoke of in Hebrews chapter 6 and verse 8 in that which Bears thorns and Briars is rejected near to cursing whose end is to be burned.
2 Peter 2 amplifies this ..vs 20 for if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled and overcome the latter end is worse for them than the beginning for it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness then after they had known it to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them but this is happened unto them according to the true proverb the dog is turned again to his own vomit and the sow has returned to her wallowing in the mud.
Ezekiel 18:24 “But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die"
Folks have been bamboozled by the once saved always saved lie. It's the same lie that Satan presented to Eve in the Garden of Eden. It's the same old tactic with a different label. Genesis 3:4 and the serpent said to the woman YOU SHALL NOT SURELY DIE for God does know that in the day that you eat thereof then your eyes shall be opened and you shall be as Gods knowing Good and Evil. In the same way this false Doctrine teaches sins are forgiven past present and future...it teaches no need for repentance or self-examination why, you are above sinning...past present and future sin is abolished. You've already received your crown!! Live as you like..when scripture is very clear from Isaiah 59 that sin is the number one thing that SEPARATES us from God. it neglects the fact that we need to have a clean conscience before God. It denies that we have to be ready waiting and watching for the Master's return. Ready waiting and watching requires self-examination and a repentant heart before the throne of grace. if you're once saved always saved you have no need to walk in holiness and without it the Bible says None will see the Lord. Once saved always saved is a cloak for sin when the Bible says to submit ourselves and humble ourselves and to crucify our flesh.
Once once saved always saved is quite possibly one of the largest deceptions and contributors to the great Falling Away spoken of in second Thessalonians 2 and 1st Timothy chapter 4. While it promises comfort and eternal security it is a false security and a very deceptive slippery slope AWAY from Christ and OUTSIDE of the vine to those who wrap themselves in it. You have no need of Him any longer! You've believed the lie! Jude explained this deseptive doctrine to perfection..For certain people have crept in unnoticed [just as if they were sneaking in by a side door]. They are ungodly persons whose condemnation was predicted long ago, for they distort the grace of our God into decadence and immoral freedom [viewing it as an opportunity to do whatever they want], and deny and disown our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
5 Now I want to remind you, although you are fully informed once for all, that [e]the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe [who refused to trust and obey and rely on Him
This Doctrine portrays only the love of God and it neglects the Holiness of God. God has not nor will he ever change for he has said I am the Lord I change not. One is either born again or they are not. They either have the spirit of God or they do not. if they are born again then they will not remain in their sin or continue in a lifestyle of sin and still have the Holy Spirit for the scriptures are very clear that it is sin that separates us from God.
A child of God will not run around and Tout that they are above falling, they fear God, humble themselves understanding that he REQUIRES abiding in him, faithful service and a commited life to overcoming the World the Flesh and the devil just as Christ did but also knowing and Remembering The Words of Christ that any man putting his hand to the plow and then turn back is not fit for the kingdom of God. They begin to work out their own salvation with fear and trembling just as Paul said. They walk in daily communion and obedience to the savior.
it's my prayer that anyone reading this would carefully consider through the lens of scripture where they stand. That they would examine the scriptures for themselves and let the spirit of God teach them and direct them and guide them into all truth. Jesus says straight is the gate and narrow is the way that leads to life and few are found therein. once saved always saved is a very welcomed and famously preached Doctrine by many respected pastors but if you could have a bird's eye view into the throne room where they stand and give an account for what they have taught in error I'm sure one would shutter in fear...
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour..
1 Peter 5:8
COC = Cult Cult= Bad Theology…. Bad Theology Hurts People
The Lord Jesus Christ paid the price for ALL the World's sin, 2 Corinthians 5 19-21kjv. He shed his blood on the Cross for our redemption and for the forgiveness of sins, Ephesians 1 7kjv. All you have to do is believe that the Lord Jesus Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again the 3rd day and you will be saved, 1 Corinthians 15 1-4kjv. You will then be sealed with the Holy Spirit of Promise, Ephesians 1 13-14kjv. Both Jew and Greek (Gentile) are saved by this Gospel, Romans 1 16kjv, and we refer to Romans to Philemon for our salvation. Ephesians 2 8-9kjv teaches no works for salvation. Please look up rightly dividing the Word of Truth, 2 Timothy 2 15kjv.
@@happydays310 Cherry-picking Bible verses is deadly. In fact, it can even be used by the enemy as the devil did in Genesis with Eve and in the NT with Jesus. At least, interact with other verses that clearly show you can fall away from the grace of God. If we keep reading into the text, God may one day say to us, "Thy will be done."
@@pmarker Rightly dividing the Word of Truth, 2 Timothy 2 15kjv is not cherry picking verses. Paul wrote this to teach us that there are dispensations in the Bible and that God was teaching the Jews in one part of the Bible and that once the Jews rejected Jesus Christ and his teaching he then turned to the Gentiles. I suggest you learn to rightly divide the Word of Truth, 2 Timothy 2 15kjv.
@@happydays310 I thought your response to the OP was "odd." You didn't really interact with all the verses that @4nowandlater shared. Ironically, that really didn't reflect 2 Tim 2:15, "... accurately handling the word of truth" NASB (a more literal and thus more accurate translation than the KVJ) Indeed, we are to handle or divide the word correctly. After all, it is His word, not ours.
Trey said Aaron twisted scripture. Trey didn't twist any scripture because he never gave any!
WILL JESUS CHRIST REDEEME U WHEN U 1ST BELIVE HIM YES OR NO ? WILL HE UN REDEEME U WHEN U STOP BELIVING JESUS CHRIST DOES JESUS DO A GOOD JOB AND THEN DO A BAD JOB AT REDEEMING U 4 EVER ???
@@theodoreritola7641have you been baptized by spirit and fire?
@@theodoreritola7641 Jesus ransomed us from sin and reconciled us to God for the forgiveness of those sins but entering the Kingdom of God is something you have to do, and Jesus is the Way you must follow so learn His Words and make your calling and election sure because MANY will not make it bc they are NOT KNOWN to Jesus... to be one of Jesus' disciples you have to continue in His Word (Jn 8:31-32) know and keep His sayings (Matt 7:21-27) , abiding in Him and He in you (John 15) ... loving others as He loved us (John 13)...and to have an entrance to the Kingdom opened unto to you:
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.
Just finished the two opening statements. Notice how Aaron uses ample scriptures to back up his claim where as Trey used little to none. This should be eye opening to anyone who is viewing.
OSAS- 3 verses in the Bible say your name can be blotted out of the book of life; Psalm 69:28, revelation 3:5, 22:19!
Never receiving Jesus is not the only way to go to hell Says Matthew 7:21-23 ; verse 23 ‘away from me I never knew you’ does not apply to everybody, Jesus says this twice in verses 21 and 22! “Not everyone will say to me (on that day)……., yes many will say…..” If OSAS was true he would’ve said “everyone and all” instead of “not everyone and Many”! So not everyone will go to hell based on never knowing Jesus, and other verses will back this up as well! you can no longer use Matthew 7:23 or say they were never saved to begin with!
Same with 2 Peter 2 “after knowing the Lord, they went back into their vomit as a dog; or back into the mud as a pig wallowing in the mud”. The word ‘knowing’ is the same word in Matthew 7:23, it’s ‘ginosko’ in the Greek- it’s a salvific relationship with Jesus! So you can lose your salvation, says this verse as well!
2 Peter 2:20 “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning!”
THEY ARE ENTANGLED IN THE CORRUPTION OF THE WORLD…AGAIN- says this verse! Jude 12 - “twice dead”; Dead in sin, born again, dead again!
And there’s many more; Revelation chapters 2 & 3 are full of ultimatums and all Jesus is focused on is our works!
Revelation 2: 5 Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place!
Revelation 2:14 there are some among you….. 16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
These are just 2 and Jesus says “he who overcomes” , Overcomes is present - future tense, and Jesus says this to all 7 churches even the 2 good ones! You have to stay faithful to the end of your life to go to heaven!
John 3:16 is he who continues to believe will have eternal life! it doesn’t say ‘believed’ past tense, you have to maintain your faith to go to heaven!
The Greek word ‘believes’ is ‘Pistis’ which basically means faithfulness so faith equals faithfulness, according to the Bible!
So if you have problems with this, then you have problems with the word of God, the Bible!
You need to study these passages so that you can make it to heaven!
If your pastor cannot answer these questions according to what I just said, then you need to leave that church!
@@jjphank he won’t comment back. He’s afraid of the Truth. Stuck in false doctrine.
He comments then runs like a cat.
Brothers, a soft word turns away wrath, but a hard word stirs up anger. I have seen the comments from junkyard dog, I understand the frustration, but all we can do is deliver the truth in love and hope he receives it. Remember we can plant the seed, and we can water it, but only God can make it grow. God bless gentleman
@junkyarddog sinners don’t go to heaven.
Sinners are saved by obeying the Gospel.
If you have not obeyed the Gospel REGARDLESS of what a man says. You are not saved.
God doesn’t add YOU or me or anyone to HIS BODY without them obeying!
@junkyarddog Whatever you claim, is NOT in the Bible, so it’s new and man made. I say that because of what you show, which is a false doctrine- WHICH IS NOT IN THE BIBLE.
Just take a listen to Aaron’s closing statement… the Word of Truth is so incredibly powerful. Jesus’ sacrifice for all of OUR personal sins is so special. Nothing needs to be added or taken away for the words of God to have an impact!!!
Jesus commanded baptism, to remove it is heresy
@@kevinhoneycutt238 to the people in that dispensation mrn
@@kevinhoneycutt238Jesus baptizes us with the Spirit. Need that one too.
@@Rileyed No, give a chapter and verse for that?
@@kevinhoneycutt238 “For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.”
The Holy Ghost is what/who we need.
If you haven’t been baptized seek the Lord in this matter. And He will baptize you. It’s the greatest experience ever in life. All hardness is gone. It’s the best experience on earth.
I struggled until that happened. Filled and baptized.
“If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?”
I won’t paste everyone. It’s too many. I can’t believe Christians don’t believe in the Holy Spirit even today. I don’t know how you live as a Christian without Him.
This is a great example of when scripture doesn't matter and taught denominational doctrine trumps it. God will bring it to light in his time.
Denominational doctrines will Never Trump scriptures! R u joking?
@@KM-zn3lx not joking. But I am not sure you understand what I wrote.
This is why you must be filled and led by the Holy Spirit of Truth. The Holy Spirit is the only way to unity.
Jesus said, "APART FROM ME you can do nothing" That is precisely why He commanded us to ABIDE IN HIM which is something we can do by trusting in, putting our confidence in, relying upon HIM. In this Jesus was not encouraging believers to rely on themselves but to rely on HIM
THATS WHY I TRUST JESUS CHRIST ONLY NOT MY WORKS AND I DO BLIVE JOHN CH 3 VS 16 JESUS CHRIST GIVES ETERNAL LIFE ONLY BECAUSE I TRUST HIM ONLY TO FORGIVE EVERY SIN I WILL EVER COMMIT PAST PRESENT AND FUTURE BY HIS PRECIOUS BLOOD DEATH AND BARIAL AND RESURECTION FOR ME PERSONALY
Aaron - Scripture after Scripture after Scripture.
Trey - let me tell you what the church-a-christ believes...
💯💯💯
ALL ARON FANS DO U BELIVE LORD SHIP SALVATION OR SAVED BY GRACE TREW FAITH ALONE ? I would like to know whats in your heart on this doctrine thank you all
@@theodoreritola7641
Faith alone is not supported with scripture. Therefore, no we do not believe in faith alone.
@@theodoreritola7641 I'm not a fan of either but CAPS LOCK IS NOT THE WAY. Also just watch the debate, search the scriptures yourself. Don't depend on catch phrases.
@@Eloign You know what if you want to do your own work for salvation and slap Jesus Christ in the face and tell Him U do not need Hs grace go for it I tried im done with all you WORKERS ,Enjoy Judgement day
It seems Trey doesn't really know what he believes. He contradicts himself over and over again and actually proves Aaron's points numerous times with his own responses! 🤔
Do u belive Jesus Christ preached OSAS yes or no ? I DO READ John ch 3 vs 16JESUS CHRIST said he gives ETERNAL LIFE who are u going to belive that man or GOD ALL MIGHTY that says HE gives you ETERNAL LIFE
IF JESUS CHRST HIM SELF GIVES U ETERNAL IF U BELIVE HIM ? HOW LONG IS ETERNAL LIFE ?
WILL JESUS CHRIST EVER ,UN ..REDEEME HIS CHILDREN IF u dont belive ASAS YOU DONT BELIEVE JESUS CHRIST PERIOD JOHN CH 3 VS 16
@@theodoreritola7641i suggest ypu read the bible..not just focus on one verse...
Joshua said “ Choose this day who you will serve” Trey says “ Don’t worry about it. Gods already chosen so either you is or either you isn’t his people” .
Thankyou Aaron for clear , strait forward Bible teaching from Gods word. No hyperbole. Just straight Bible…. I just can’t believe that Trey denied the direct words of Jesus when he plainly said that he had lost none “EXCEPT“ Judas. Plus all the other plain scripture. SMH
And whom did God say to choose from?
@@aletheia8054 , Joshua 24:13-16 answers your question.
@@bookchapterverse6830 Yeah, he told him to choose between two pagan gods.
@@aletheia8054 , no, the choice was service of God or service of the pagan "gods" that they left behind. Again, I cite Joshua 24: 13-16.
Joshua said, "Choose this day who you will serve. Jesus said, "God or money?" OSAS people said, "I chose God first, and then money since we are always saved."
They can't leave because they don't have free will, REALLY!!!
Here's another tidbit about falling from Grace found in Galatians 5:4. The Calvinist will say regarding "you have fallen from grace," that these people were never truly saved to begin with. However, my question to them is, "how can you fall from grace if you never had it to begin with?" See, if these people were never truly saved, then they never truly had grace,and as a result cannot fall from grace. On the other hand, if they did actually recieve grace, then definitely they can fall from it. It's just the 'logical implicaiton' of the verse. To read it any other way is to do total injustice to the rules of grammar, not to mention God's word. Hope this helps shed even more light on the subject. Blessings!
Romans 8:30 says all that are justified are glorified. Is this not true?
At 48:38, Trey tries to explain "I will blot him out of My book" from Exodus chapter 32 verse 33 and says that Aaron said "I will blot him out of My book of life." See what Aaron says when he reads this at 22:48. Aaron doesn't quote it as Trey says he does. Notice that Trey actually writes his own meaning into the passage and says "this is the book of the living...this is the census." Trey is rewriting the passage.
💯
He often more than a few times put words in Aaron's mouth
Actually he’s right
Great job Trey and Aaron but I must say not just because I’m a member of the Church of Christ, but simply because the word of God is plain and Aaron you did a magnificent job my brother using scripture to justify your stance not anything else. Scripture is the best commentary on scripture. Rev 2:10 is plain be faithful means that our salvation is conditional you can fall from grace. So many examples of Gods punishment for those who didn’t keep his commandments or obey his word even the angels were cast out of heaven so if he would cast them out apparently there are things that can cause us to loose our salvation if we don’t remain faithful until death. Warnings all throughout the Bible informs us that once saved always saved is FALSE DOCTRINE
The inability to articulate the doctrine well does not make it false. I will try to articulate it according to what you have just said. When you say “our salvation is conditional” yes that is true in that one is only made righteous BY FAITH. Tell me, who has the greater faith: the one who believes that Jesus alone is sufficient to save them to the uttermost, once & for all, & Jesus alone has given them eternal life, once & for all? Or the one who believes that HE must remain faithful to God through HIS obedience & HIS righteousness? Well, if we properly define “being faithful” & “obedience” & “righteousness” according to the new covenant we will see that “being faithful” means continually trusting in the gospel (that we are saved by grace through faith, that all who believe on Jesus shall have eternal life), “obedience” is to believe one is made righteous by faith & to love one another (once saved always saved is unconditional love-those who believe in this gospel will love unconditionally just as Christ does-they will not disqualify anyone, rather they believe SO STRONGLY in the love & faithfulness & work of Jesus Christ that they do not believe ANYONE or ANYTHING can break GOD’S covenant promise to those who believe-therefore they love you with this in mind & never give up on you). “Righteousness” by faith, plain & simple, you can’t describe being righteous any other way because that is the only righteousness that exists in the gospel.
Do you really think a once saved always saved person will EVER stop having faith in Jesus?? No, but those who DO NOT believe Jesus is capable of saving them to the uttermost once & for all are ALWAYS IN DOUBT. Hopefully you see how a once saved always saved doctrine CAN BE a very POWERFUL & UNWAVERING faith. The kind of faith that we are SUPPOSED to have. I would be much more concerned if I did NOT have this kind of faith in God to keep His promise. After all, the just shall live by FAITH. That’s what this whole gospel is about-faith in God, faith in the blood of Jesus, faith in the love of God the mercy of God the faithfulness of God the promise of God.
I do not say any of this for the sake of “winning an argument” because just one hour ago I did not endorse the “once saved always saved” doctrine, but after reading 2 or 3 comments against the doctrine I thought I would try to see it from a biblical perspective to see if it fits. Hopefully you are as convinced now as I am, but I do believe one must have the doctrine in the right perspective, such as the perspective as (I) described in order for it to be genuine faith & I believe the proof of that is in the unconditional love (I) described here (not really I because I truly believe it was the Holy Spirit speaking through me). I think what you describe as being faithful & enduring & obeying His commandments is indeed what once saved always saved is doing. It just makes it a lot easier to do if I’m being honest because it puts all the burden on Jesus, which I think is exactly the way God intended this to be.
Edit: I think a better name for the doctrine is “When your faith is always in Christ you are always saved.”
It’s amazing how deceived Trey is! That’s why people need to stay in the faith because the power of unbelief and Satan is very very scary 😢!
He isn’t deceived. He’s in love with his mega church paycheck and is fighting tooth and nail to defend his position lest he humble himself to admit he’s as wrong as we all know he is, and these videos go viral. Then by consequence, his paltry paycheck flies out the window too along with his false teachings.
@@youtube6817If that were the case he wouldn’t be here debating to begin with. Very rare to see any mega church pastor willing to be challenged by another biblical scholar. I would say in most cases “once saved always saved” is like a self fulfilling prophecy. The ones who truly believe this will never stop having faith in Jesus. The ones who do not believe this are already at high risk of falling away because they do not believe Jesus will save them. To believe Jesus WILL SAVE YOU is actually saving faith. To those who believe He MIGHT NOT save you, well that’s going to be a very unstable relationship & difficult person to trust. So while it’s not technically true (once saved always saved) I would say the person who is FULLY convinced Jesus will save them is more likely to ENDURE & CONTINUE in the faith.
WHEN JESUS GIVES U ETRNAL LIFE JOHN CH 3 VS 16 HOW LONG IS IT ?
@@BingoNamo-gb8pz the belief in once saved always saved is true. It's not teaching fruits of the Holy Spirit as being truly saved is the issue. People can say they believe all day long but not be Holy Spirit filled and saved.
One thing I noticed about people who believe OSAS it’s always appeal to emotion or totally making up something no one is debating.
SO TO,,, U,,,JOHN CH 3 vs 16 JESUS CHRIST IS LYING ? JESUS CHRIST WILL NEVER ....UN,,,,, REDDEME HIS CHILDREN
@@theodoreritola7641 sir did I ever say I don’t believe that verse or which position I take? No so you should reread what I wrote, stop being emotional, and work on your writing skills.
I’m just now working through all of Aaron’s videos because I love how biblically sound his thoughts are and for these opening statements Trey speaks anecdotally with one scripture not used properly and then Aaron hits you with proper hermeneutical rightly diving the word of God on the topic. I love what you’re doing Aaron and hope to visit your congregation soon. I’m in Nashville!
Paul was at war with the flesh and begged God to take away what tempted him that is when you know the spirit of Christ is in you and you can know you are saved you aren't willfully living in sin as the Christian was who was in adultery with his father's wife and wouldn't repent thanks Aaron for standing firm in the faith
The question is that once saved have never answered is. How much sin can I commit and still be saved? Next question. Why is letters being written to churches is once saved always saved. What to save folks need warnings for. They going to heaven anyway? What is the great falling away in 2 Thessalonians 2:1 -3 if these people were never saved anyway. What branch in John ch 15 : needs to be cut off if they wasn't saved anyway. Last but not least. What do you need to continue with God for if you once saved always saved? Nobody haven't got this one. What do believers need to hide God's Word in their heart like David did if you are saved anyway? People works don't save you . If we fail it isn't Christ or God or the Holy Spirit failing. Stop it. We have a choice. Stay saved.
Trey is a great example of how so-called believers hold fast to what their pastor say in church RATHER than what the Bible says. . .😥
You really need to learn the word of GOD!
Indeed
Wait, you actually believe that people can come to Christ and continue in their sin? And then make it to Heaven??!! 😯😲
DOES THE JESUS CHRIST TEACH ,,,,,,UN,, REDEMPTION
Trey: Says Aaron is wrong by picking and choosing verses, Also trey: Refuses to elaborate during his response.
Aaron did so good trey couldn't fight back.
I think we should be watching this debate to learn and discern. None of us has the full truth until we die!
I have to agree though. Trey was demeaning and saying Aaron took scriptures out of context when Trey wasn't prepared.
Yes, but that doesn’t prove OSAS wrong. It’s not sound doctrine because some fool could always decide he doesn’t want to be saved anymore & intentionally deny Jesus. But OSAS is true for those who always believe in Christ.
Free will, because God does not want robots!
Trey What about reading the rest of John 15 verse 6. About the branches that dont bare fruit will be cut down and cast into the fire?
“Bear fruit in keeping with repentance.” I hope you realize what kind of fruit this is. I’ve yet to see a “once saved always saved” person bearing bad fruit. Do you know why? Because they see God’s love as unconditional therefore they love others in the same way. They NEVER give up on people EVER because they don’t believe God will ever give up on them. So they are in a perpetual state of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, mercy, forgiveness, compassion.
Oops you did it too, keep reading. Vs 7 if you remain in me and my and my word’s remain In you ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. This is to my fathers glory that that you bear much fruit (here it is) showing yourself to be my disciples. These disciples weren’t thrown into the fire. Why? Because they were truly saved. Yah, once they got saved they always remained save.
The Bible says that the Prodigal Son “ came to himself “ . He said “ I will arise and go back to my Fathers house” . The Father did not go get him and drag him back home kicking and screaming. He CHOSE to leave and he CHOSE to come back. Contrary to what Trey teaches.
Exactly
@KevinKing Mark 16:16 - is the saving Scripture that Aaron referenced I believe.
So you are lying and you are looking for attention, so someone can listen to your false narrative of the Scriptures.
Jesus said how to be saved.
Out of His own mouth.
Mark 16:16
WHATEVER you say.
What EVER YOU SAY.
Regardless OF WHAT YOU SAY.
Jesus SAID
BELIEVE AND BE BAPTIZED.
You are NOT Jesus, so now what do you do?
Twist Scripture to fit your narrative?
Wont fall for the devils tricks here because I see it. You’re here to start confusion. Nobody is blind to your position.
Christ is the head of the Church.
Do you reject that as well ?
It’s Scripture, literally.
Do you reject Jesus being the Son of God?
It’s Scripture, literally.
Do you believe you must repent or confess before you can be saved????
It’s Scripture, literally.
What could you possibly say about Scripture that a child can understand, but you twist and make it say what you want?
How do you feel about not caring about what Jesus said and obeying Him??
How does that make you feel ??
You have no ground to stand on.
@@kevinking-kf2lbAaron doesn’t teach never saved. Email him and talk to him but stop lying.
@@kevinking-kf2lb No accusations made only an informed observation
@@jarvisprice1992how do we know the prodigal son isn’t us before Christ then Christ dies & reconciles us back to God. You do know what “reconcile” means? We are the ministry of reconciliation. Do you really think every believer was saved, walked away, & returned? No, this is talking about us BEFORE CHRIST CAME to reconcile us back to God from when we were separated in the garden of Eden.
Trey is right on one thing, we can never do enough to earn Heaven. That doesn't mean we have nothing to do, or that our actions don't have any bearing on our eternal destination. There are things we must do for what Jesus did to apply to us.
No that's not what Jesus asked. Your works are filthy rags. It's faith in Jesus christ less any man shall boast!
You are very correct. Just that Jesus Christ did all He did doesn't automatically apply to our lives. We must believe first and keep believing and producing good works according to Ephesians 2:10.
@@daycaremortelblesseddaycar4343 Not only that, you must repent of your sins, confess your belief to others, and be immersed in water before your sins are forgiven. Then walk in the light so any other sins you commit are forgiven.
our actions have nothing to do with going to heaven. i steal, a lot, im going to heaven. that person whose reading their bible and preaching a works based salvation is going to hell, and is leading people to hell.
@@luncarmy-et8dz We are not saved by works. We are saved by grace to produce good works, manifesting the fruits of righteousness. Read Ephesians 2:8-10 and stop believing in lies that nourish the works of the flesh. Such shall not enter the kingdom of God .......
People believe they can’t lose salvation because it’s comforting?? I believe it because Jesus said so. I mean, sure, believing what Jesus promised has a certain comfort to it… yet it is humbling.
The “once saved always saved” false doctrine is yet another ploy from satan to keep people complacent in their sins, and to keep them from seeking and growing spiritually in God’s word. Excellent job presenting God’s word, Aaron.
It is interesting how in Romans 1:17 we read of St. Paul's use of the term "from faith to faith". Later in Romans, we read of the example of Abraham's salvation through faith. In Romans 4, we read that Abraham had faith in child birth through Sarah when she was 90, and this would be hard to believe would happen except that Abraham believed in the prophecy given back in Genesis 17:19. This was a surprise to Abraham, which means he had a change in faith. This suggests that "from faith to faith" can be thought of as being likened to the scientific discoveries of the solar system from "technology to technology". I accept infant baptism as I sense this to being likened to the reception of an "invisible Bible" that promotes Christian enlightenment. The problem I see with credo-baptism is the strong tendency to view baptism as a result of belief rather than belief as a result of baptism. To Aaron's credit, I sense that his beliefs stem from his study of the Bible more so than the case of Trey, who seems to have come up with his own beliefs, and then interprets scripture to fit in with his beliefs. Both Aaron and Trey trust in the Bible, but I sense that Aaron has a "from faith to faith" evolution such that he keeps of refining his beliefs as he studies the Bible. For example, how would Trey and Aaron interpret these verses from Romans 2 (NKJV):
2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things.
3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God?
4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?
5 But in accordance with your hardness and your [a]impenitent heart you are [b]treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
1 Corinthians 5:1-5 "It is actually reported that there is sexually immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among the pagans...you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that he spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord."
I don't know what "deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh..." looks like today, but it appears that Paul is saying that they are to be left to their devices and the result will be the destruction of their mortal bodies, not their spirit.
Sexual immorality had crept into the church at Corinth, nowhere does Paul say that these people were not saved, but rather he instructs the church to not associate themselves with them (1 Cor. 5:9). Churches that do not address sexual immorality WITHIN the church are erring from scripture. I've heard way too many sermons from preachers that condemn the sexual sins of people outside of the church and rarely have I seen it actually addressed and action taken against sexual immoral church members.
Demas fell in love with the world and left Paul, was he saved (2 Timothy 4:10)?
Peter denied Christ 3x, "But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 10:33 Did Peter lose his salvation or was he not saved yet when he denied Christ 3x?
@@3165 This is I Corinthians 5:5 (NKJV):
5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
According to many OSAS folks, salvation is given by faith alone in the finished work of Christ alone. If this is true, then how could this sinful person’s spirit be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus through something involving the destruction of his flesh?
I view St. Peter’s denial as his spiritual death as the answer to the question posed by Jesus to St. Peter in John 13:38. I view John 21 as the story of how He rose from this death on the 3rd day (John 21:14 because Jesus is the light of the world) as he repented to the love of Jesus and subsequent walking in newness of life after the form of water baptism described in John 21:7-9.
@@raykidder906 Hi Ray, I enjoy healthy discussion and I'm not looking to get into a fight. So, if there is something that you think is attacking, it is not my intention.
- I'm not a calvinist. I believe Ephesians 1:13-14 "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory."
> So the big question is: when does a person receive the Holy Spirit? It is clear that people receive the holy spirit "after ye believed" (no conditions/works) Romans 4:5
I'm OSAS, as in "Once sealed, always sealed" 😉
This topic always leads me to 2 questions:
1. What works are necessary to meet God’s approval for righteousness?
2. How many works are necessary?
- 1 Cor. 6:18 "Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body." I think sexual immorality is a sin against the body which ultimately leads to physical death, not spiritual (STD's/HIV).
* I don't think Peter was in danger of losing his salvation when he denied Christ. My point was more to focus on the fact that Peter failed in the flesh. You can see his reaction when the rooster crowed the third time, he was crushed and repentive (Luke 22:62)
@@3165 The verses of Acts 19:1-5 suggest that the reception of the Holy Spirit is contingent upon being first baptized into the body of Christ with water in the name of Jesus, and then having the right religious beliefs, and then having the laying on of hands by a church official such as a bishop. This reception of the Holy Spirit may be evidenced by speaking in tongues and/or prophesying. A person who has baptism and the right faith will be made to drink of the one Holy Spirit as per I Corinthians 12:13. It seems possible that a person such as myself can have the Holy Spirit without a miraculous gift, as per the rhetorical question of I Corinthians 6:19. The laying on of hands appears to be the bestowal of a specific gift for edification of the body of Christ, and not so much as an act of salvation. There are no works that earn salvation, but a person who has received the circumcision of the heart will necessarily do the good works like the gentiles mentioned in Romans 2:14-15 do. There are some Christians who think such gentiles are non-Christians, but this does not make sense in view of how St. Paul mentioned the universal slavery to sin of those who are without Christ.
When Trey punishes his children, does that mean he doesn't love his children? Of course not.
Kristen how long is eternal life in John ch 3 vs 16
Aaron: *Reads Scripture*
Trey: "You read it so literal & take it out of context."
Trey's 'context' is Reformed Theology. It is really sad and I pray that he will take God's Word for what it says and not reading into the Scriptures his preconceived ideas before it is too late.
Free will is read into the scripture. There’s no place in the Bible that describes will of a man as being free.
@@aletheia8054
Are you saying I was predestined/decreed by God to make the above comment? or was I free to do so?
Here is a small sampling of passages that have something to do with "free will";
Jos 24:15 "And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."
Isa 55:6 Seek the LORD while He may be found, Call upon Him while He is near.
7 Let the wicked forsake his way, And the unrighteous man his thoughts; Let him return to the LORD, And He will have mercy on him; And to our God, For He will abundantly pardon.
Eze 18:30 "Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways," says the Lord GOD. "Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin.
31 "Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel?
32 "For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies," says the Lord GOD. "Therefore turn and live!"
1Co 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.
2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor.
21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
Etc. Etc.
@@stephenjohnson505 Yes I’m saying you are determined by God to do anything. Including make comments on RUclips.
I’ve been through all of those verses, so many times. I can’t respond at all that in a RUclips comment.
@@aletheia8054 OK. If we are having a predetermined discussion it doesn't seem to make much sense to continue anyways I suppose.
I just really don't understand how this idea meshes with any of those verses I quoted, especially I Cor 10:13, if God also determines for Christians to sin?
No need to respond further if you don't want to, I mean, determined to. :)
@@stephenjohnson505 Yes I’m sure that you don’t see it. I don’t doubt that.
Finally finished all 6 videos. My eyes have really been opened to how many problems the calvinists have. So many questions they can’t or refuse to answer.
Pretty sure Trey won’t ever admit how wrong he is because his *cozy mega church paycheck* literally depends on deflecting the truth. Clearly he is an expert at it and I believe he knows he is wrong and doesn’t care. Aaron presented the truth with more than enough scriptural evidence in context to back it up. Yet Trey refuses to admit he’s wrong or show any kind of humility.
He’s a false teacher and he knows it.
His attitude reminds me of these people Jesus spoke of:
Matthew 10:13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
Matthew 10:14 *And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.*
Yet he accuses Aaron of not admitting he's wrong. When ppl accuse you of doing something they are probably doing what they accuse you of!
Too bad the Fake god you worship...doesn't love you enough to keep you from ever losing your Salvation!
Ironic that you say that because the message they were preaching from house to house is “believe on the Lord Jesus & you shall be saved, and thy house” which is once saved always saved in a nutshell. The gospel is not complicated.
@@BingoNamo-gb8pzdo you really think that’s all they taught. Just one sentence and nothing else?
Believe means to give your life to Him. They knew what covenant meant.
@@Rileyed I can get into Harvard without ever being taught one thing by Harvard. Why do you assume I am not willing to be educated by Harvard after being accepted? Isn’t it more reasonable to believe I wanted to get into Harvard & wanted to be educated by Harvard & wanted to become a Harvard alumni?
Good job Aaron. Keep up the good work brother
WHATmust a man do to be saved?and how long is eternal life in John ch 3 vs 16 And how do u get etrnal life acording to GOD ALL MIGHTY .
@@theodoreritola7641 Read Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16...
I’m only halfway through this and I can tell you right now I’m just so grateful for you, Aaron. I have studied the subject pretty extensively, and you have taught me a new things. It’s unbelievable what the blind will say and do when they really don’t want to believe something that is true.
I have had this debate with many people, and it’s almost always the same. Sadly, they will defend their hopes and tickled tears, sometimes aggressively and without any true Spirit of Christ. 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 I will lift Trey up in my prayers.
What are you going to do when there are so many non COC members in Heaven? Maybe even some former “disfellowshipped” former COC members? There are some precious saints in the COC and I’m sure you are as well, but being married to a FORMER COC preachers daughter and witnessing the absolute devastating effects this theology had on their family, I just feel bad. Anytime you see a works based form of theology, which the COC very much is, it’s just not biblical…
What are we going to do when we see people who obey the gospel in heaven? Rejoice, of course. The theology is sound and biblical. Reformed theology is what’s anti biblical. The TULIP is a flower planted by Satan.
WHEN JESUS CHRIST GIVES U ETERNAL LIFE HOW LONG IS IT ? IF U BELIVE HIM ?
@@theodoreritola7641 it is for those who endure to the end
SO U BELIVE U HAVE TO DO OTHER THAN BELIVE JESUS ON;Y 4 SALVATION DO U BELIVE JOHN CH 3 VS 16? WHAT IF U DIDNT LIVE IN THE TIME OF THE TRIBULATION How did they become saved?
This has been really eye opening for me. Great stuff!
Trey has spent a few videos with Jeremiah Nortier on their channels saying that he thought Aaron Gallagher quit this series and doubted that Aaron would come back. Please note this video, Trey. You knew better.
Wow is Trey telling bald face lies? I'm not surprised. He accused Aaron of doing that but obviously was projecting.
Faith: Hebrews 11
F: facts in focus. It provides evidence of things not seen.
A: active obedience
I: intimacy with God
T:tenacious valor: hang on tenaciously
H:hope then enables one to be so committed to God that nothing deters them from the path.
I love that acronym, totally fits the context of Hebrews chapter 11.
Man I'm late to the party but this is sick
@@Historylover94 welcome 🤗
I didn't think Trey's "exegesis" could get any worse. I stand corrected!
I think you meant eisegesis!
@@jackhowell1274 yeah, that too!
Trey: emotions, feelings, and what he wants to believe. (and does not listen to Aaron's perfectly explained breakdown of scripture)
Aaron: Bible and what God wants us to believe.
Good debate, as someone who has come from OSAS teaching, Aaron nailed this!
Also, far out... Trey was really RUDE during this, poor attitude.
DID ARRON REDEEME THAT JESUS CHRIST WILL UN REDEEME U? LOL HAVE A BLSSED DAY
Romans 8:38-39, my favorite and most beautiful passage of scripture. I’m surprised that nobody pointed out that - It says that nothing can separate us from THE LOVE of God. It doesn’t say it can not separate us from Him. Or from salvation into our eternal consequences. My child might choose to excommunicate me when he is older, live a life of sin and deserve the consequences for his actions, but it wouldn’t make me love him any less. Just like we can turn from God and face the consequences of that choice but He still loves us and wishes we would have come back to him. This was a wonderful debate, I just wish you both could have somehow left your pride at the door.
I did not see any pride or condescension except from Trey comparing Aaron to satan, etc,... Yes, salvation is clearly and always conditional!
@@CRHenderson-d9zconditions which Jesus met. We cannot save ourselves. Our condition is to believe Jesus met the conditions on our behalf.
God bless you both and all my brethren, We serve a God that truth and integrity is most important. Faith by grace we are saved and because we are saved and Love The Lord we work because we also love our brethren just as we love ourselves.
Scripture says we can loose our salvation . Example ;
Exo 32:32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
Exo 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Just some examples. Once saved always saved is not sound doctrine. God bless us all on our journey for biblical truth.
Just FYI for anyone watching this not familiar with the doctrine Trey affirms. Starting at 6:11, according to Trey's theology, he has absolutely no, zilch, zero idea if that has happened to him. He will tell you it has, but don't let that fool you. According to his theology, there is no confidence that it has because if he "falls away" one day, that just means he was never saved in the first place.
It is so sad that Trey really believes Aaron takes verses out of context when Trey actually does this with almost every scripture he "interprets" . It's actually delusional. 😔 Aaron did a great job defending the truth without anger. Great example.
Kind of gaslighting?
Praise God for my dear Brother Aaron and for him continuing to walk worthy of our calling in Christ Jesus. I am thankful for ur love for people cause trey called u satan, and u were patient with a person who never understood about his salvation, he is like what Hebrews 6:4-6 says.
1John 3:15 *whoever hates his BROTHER is a murderer and you know that no murderer has ETERNAL LIFE ABIDING IN HIM* Christians according to John can loose eternal life.
You’re applying “brother” in a broad sense to someone who is a believer. If you do that then you are calling the one who hates a “believer” since that would mean that only a brother (believer) can hate a brother (believer). So then this would mean the believer is not a believer?? That’s silly.
Brother can also mean the way Paul uses it when he says he wishes that his Jewish brothers would come to Christ.
Is funny when Trey can't reply he goes next question. And he also was disrespectful towards Aaron so many times
Surprised aaron didnt bring up 1 john ch 5. Where it literally says Believers and then goes on to describe sin that leads to death. I dont know how much more clear it could be?. So confused as to how osas proponents work so hard to deny these verses.
We are accountable for our own sins.
Yes, without faith in Jesus you are on your own. Best of luck.
JESUS CHRIST HAS 4 GIVEN EVERY SIN I WILL EVER COMMIT PAST PRESENT AND FUTURE
Preach Bro Aaron!! Great teaching my brother!❤
If you remove 1jn.1:7 - Aaron’s whole position falls flat. The whole, repent to stay saved view. 1john1 is taken out of context .I would not build a whole doctrine on a verse that could be referring to unbelievers/antinomianists
@@daletrade5178but there’s not only 1 verse in the Bible that warns us. If you take out 1Jn 1:7 there’s Hebrews 6:4 and Hebrews 10:26. Read it and meditate on it.
@@daletrade5178Unbelievably incorrect friend
At the 12:58 mark, "I guess we could do what ever we want" is what He said. He sounds like the Aleister Crowley followers motto of "do as thou wilt", instead of what a real Christian should believe.
Aaron you did great. Trey, unfortunately, is so deceived.
HOW does Jesus Christ UN ,REDEEM HIS OWN AFTER HE REDEEMS HIS OWN ? WHEN YOUR REDEEMED YOUR GODS 4 EVER PERIOD . your so blinded by Satan u cant see your hand in front of your face SPIRITUALY. I mean that in love
If it’s all Jesus and none of us, then Jesus being a just God, will surely save EVERYONE, right Trey?
Yes, everyone who calls upon His name to be saved. Jesus said He wanted to gather the Jews as a hen gathers her brood but THEY would not. God only gives grace to the humble. He resists the proud.
IF U BELIVE HIM YES
@@BingoNamo-gb8pz
What is, “calling on the name of God”?
@@theodoreritola7641
We must believe and obey, Hebrews 5:9.
Trey was absolutely destroyed by Aaron in this debate.
John ch 3 vs 16 how long is eternal ?
Why would He pray for something that can't happen.
Aaron is on point!🙌🏾
As I listened to Trey's opening statement, my first thought was (why isn't he referencing any scriptures. Hmm 😒
He referenced a lot of scriptures. Maybe you just don’t recognize them because he didn’t say “this is found in Ephesians 1:14” but if you know the word you know he’s referencing several biblical passages. I do this too. I’m terrible at remembering what book & chapter & verse I’m referencing. Referencing doesn’t always have to be a direct quote either.
I feel so sorry for Trey and the level of delusion the enemy has blinded him with. Imagine having to stand before the Lord on the last day, having to explain why you profited off attacking the Lords church. He needs our earnest prayers to humble himself in sight of the Lord.
Amen 🙏
Imaging standing before The Father saying, “look what I did” rather than, “Look what Christ did!” True obedience flows from the latter. Blessings to you.
@@TulipErasmus respectfully, following the commands of Christ isn't "look what i did"
ironic that you mention true obedience, yet don't think its absolutely necessaryto obey Christ or his Apostles concerning the need to do it or the reasons for it.
@@PedroMatos-s3o it is if it’s what saves you
2:31:41 Note what Trey said he did for salvation. He "looked to Christ."
"Looked" is a work. Looking is an action. Trey says he did that as he tells Aaron that his doctrine is about "I, I, I, here is what I did to bring me to completion."
Calvinism can never describe salvation without describing their works that they did to get there. It never fails. It's the self-refuting killswitch that deflates their argument every single time.
John 3
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
John 6
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which SEETH the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
What is your exegesis of this in ight of your statement. Do you believe absolutely nothing happens to the person who God has shined the light of the Gospel into their heart? Believing is the work of God - John 6:29. Not our work, his work. Not sure if you're trying to divorce our response to Grace as work or not, do you have faith or not.
@@destroyingtheworksofthedev9349
"What is your exegesis of this in ight of your statement."
- It is the same as what I have inferred in my initial comment. Regarding John 3: a person must absolutely believe, for this is scriptural.
- Regarding John 6, belief is a work of God, just the same a baptism and faith (Colossians 2:12). Note that more is required in this passage, though. "Seeing," "beholding," or whatever work a particular translation uses is what must be done.
"Do you believe absolutely nothing happens to the person who God has shined the light of the Gospel into their heart?"
- My initial comment said "salvation." This is not a good inference on your part.
"Believing is the work of God - John 6:29. Not our work, his work. Not sure if you're trying to divorce our response to Grace as work or not, do you have faith or not."
- No one denies this, but I haven't said that believing is not a work of God. That was you.
- You have qualified a work ("response") as "ours" in the same way Trey tries to ascribe certain works to God while saying "man can do nothing." He then lists what man must do (which is definitely not "nothing") in order to have salvation. In the case of this video, he said one must "look to Christ." That's one of what you call "our responses." Responding is also one of our works.
- I'm not divorcing anything from anything. Scripture puts two parties in the court.
@@bookchapterverse6830 You're over intellectualizing this - you never even arrived at an ultimate here. The notion of total depravity is that on their OWN men cannot respond to the Gospel until they are made alive, born again, quickened, then since they HAVE the spirit they are capable of believing, receiving, accepting, repenting. I am not even sure which you are advocating for, that the scriptures contradict, or both sovereign grace and Arminianism are both heresy.
@@destroyingtheworksofthedev9349 , you are correct: you are "not even sure which I am advocating for" because all that I have said from my initial comment is that Trey, a guy who says "man can do nothing," is advocating man to do something. "Doing nothing" does not include "looking," which is Trey's self-contradictory position.
If you missed that which has been no secret since my first comment, then I'm not the one guilty of over-intellectualizing anything.
Total depravity is an unscriptural heresy. In John 12:42-43, can men not respond to the gospel until they have been affected by your given checklist? The Holy Spirit tells us that "nevertheless many even of the rulers believed in Him [Jesus], but because of the Pharisees they were not confessing Him, for fear that they would be put out of the synagogue; for they loved the approval of men rather than the approval of God." The Holy Spirit tells us that they believed, that is to say that they had that wonderful work of God you mentioned. But then again, you said they were incapable. Their belief means, according to you, that they had been made alive, born again, and quickened...but this wasn't the case in Scripture.
@@bookchapterverse6830 So when the scripture says - "I know that there is NOTHING GOOD IN ME(that is in my flesh) you say there is, There is NO ONE THAT SEEKS AFTER God, NO ONE HAS UNDERSTANDING NO NOT EVEN ONE, you say there is? Where does it say in John 12 these men who believed were not first quickened? As for Trey, I am not a Calvinist and I never make statements that say men literally do nothing. Clearly we become capable when we're not, once God makes us alive - Ephesians 2:1,5 John 5:21 Psalm 80:18-19. So many more scriptures - the entire picture of salvation in John 11 has to do with Lazarus being dead and Jesus telling him to come forth, it never mentions after he makes his free will decision to do so. The son quickens whom he will, this is not in any way implying it's about us making a choice - exercising will. John 1:13 says it's not by the will of man, James 1:18 says it's by God's will. If you're not totally depraved at the start, then what are you? A little better than the unbeliever? That is mind blowing. The heart is deceitfully wicked above all things?? Yea you're right - we're not totally depraved 🙄
I agree with Trey that our works must be motivated by love and not out of fear in order to be pleasing to God. Conversely, a self indulgent sinner who does not repent does not properly correct his behavior through works of the law based on fear. If he keeps on sinning without being sanctified then he does not love God, and is not in a state of salvation. He needs to love God because God first loved him as perceived through his faith. This litmus test is from I John 3 (NKJV):
14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death.
15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
@raykiddrr906 you abide in death. Only God can grant you repentance from your disbelief.
I think the holy Spirit has made it very clear who is speaking truth. And who is not. Amen
@@TheHeavenTestdotnet-gr2ou lol I'm not reading all that. Osas is of the devil.
Awesome job as always Aaron!! 📖😊
Trey is an example of one whose sectarian dogma enslaves his thinking and does not allow him to read accurately the Scriptures!
What does 2 Timothy 2:13 mean?
Atv46:22 section where Trey begins to speaknon how lampstand refers to the church,not salvation he doesnt even realize he just proved our point..
Christvis the head of the church his body of which he is the savior,the church is made up of those that are saved,thus to remove the church,Christ would be removing those that saved.. this definitely speaks of salvation
Okay but why?? Because they did not BELIEVE in the UNCONDITIONAL love of God. He says they ABANDONED their first love. Once saved always saved NEVER abandon their first love because it is UNCONDITIONAL so they love others UNCONDITIONALLY.
Trey, the scriptures are clear. You are the one that is doing scriptural gymnastics. If you do not complete your assignments and attend classes, you will not get your degree. It's that simple. I pray you will have an open heart
If you are once saved always saved, there is absolutely no reason read what Paul wrote to correct in 1 Cor 5 or any of his other letters. No reason for Peter to write, nothing. If salvation is impossible to lose there is no reason for any of the prophets to Israel. Once saved always saved makes no logical sense.
@junkyarddog God with his commandments in the old and the New Testaments, apparently wants us to do good works. So to help you out, and answer your Conundrum , if you walk in the light of Jesus is in the light, the blood of Jesus will clinch of moss in. If you don’t walk in the light as he doesn’t like the blood of Jesus will not clear from all sin, first John 1:7.
That means you’re living free from any willful sin; you’re not sinning in a ritual way Or addiction problem that is a sin!
OSAS- 3 verses in the Bible say your name can be blotted out of the book of life; Psalm 69:28, revelation 3:5, 22:19!
Never receiving Jesus is not the only way to go to hell Says Matthew 7:21-23 ; verse 23 ‘away from me I never knew you’ does not apply to everybody, Jesus says this twice in verses 21 and 22! “Not everyone will say to me (on that day)……., yes many will say…..” If OSAS was true he would’ve said “everyone and all” instead of “not everyone and Many”! So not everyone will go to hell based on never knowing Jesus, and other verses will back this up as well! you can no longer use Matthew 7:23 or say they were never saved to begin with!
Same with 2 Peter 2 “after knowing the Lord, they went back into their vomit as a dog; or back into the mud as a pig wallowing in the mud”. The word ‘knowing’ is the same word in Matthew 7:23, it’s ‘ginosko’ in the Greek- it’s a salvific relationship with Jesus! So you can lose your salvation, says this verse as well!
2 Peter 2:20 “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning!”
THEY ARE ENTANGLED IN THE CORRUPTION OF THE WORLD…AGAIN- says this verse! Jude 12 - “twice dead”; Dead in sin, born again, dead again!
And there’s many more; Revelation chapters 2 & 3 are full of ultimatums and all Jesus is focused on is our works!
Revelation 2: 5 Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place!
Revelation 2:14 there are some among you….. 16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
These are just 2 and Jesus says “he who overcomes” , Overcomes is present - future tense, and Jesus says this to all 7 churches even the 2 good ones! You have to stay faithful to the end of your life to go to heaven!
John 3:16 is he who continues to believe will have eternal life! it doesn’t say ‘believed’ past tense, you have to maintain your faith to go to heaven!
The Greek word ‘believes’ is ‘Pistis’ which basically means faithfulness so faith equals faithfulness, according to the Bible!
So if you have problems with this, then you have problems with the word of God, the Bible!
You need to study these passages so that you can make it to heaven!
If your pastor cannot answer these questions according to what I just said, then you need to leave that church!
You are correct; OSAS- 3 verses in the Bible say your name can be blotted out of the book of life; Psalm 69:28, revelation 3:5, 22:19!
Never receiving Jesus is not the only way to go to hell Says Matthew 7:21-23 ; verse 23 ‘away from me I never knew you’ does not apply to everybody, Jesus says this twice in verses 21 and 22! “Not everyone will say to me (on that day)……., yes many will say…..” If OSAS was true he would’ve said “everyone and all” instead of “not everyone and Many”! So not everyone will go to hell based on never knowing Jesus, and other verses will back this up as well! you can no longer use Matthew 7:23 or say they were never saved to begin with!
Same with 2 Peter 2 “after knowing the Lord, they went back into their vomit as a dog; or back into the mud as a pig wallowing in the mud”. The word ‘knowing’ is the same word in Matthew 7:23, it’s ‘ginosko’ in the Greek- it’s a salvific relationship with Jesus! So you can lose your salvation, says this verse as well!
2 Peter 2:20 “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning!”
THEY ARE ENTANGLED IN THE CORRUPTION OF THE WORLD…AGAIN- says this verse! Jude 12 - “twice dead”; Dead in sin, born again, dead again!
And there’s many more; Revelation chapters 2 & 3 are full of ultimatums and all Jesus is focused on is our works!
Revelation 2: 5 Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place!
Revelation 2:14 there are some among you….. 16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
These are just 2 and Jesus says “he who overcomes” , Overcomes is present - future tense, and Jesus says this to all 7 churches even the 2 good ones! You have to stay faithful to the end of your life to go to heaven!
John 3:16 is he who continues to believe will have eternal life! it doesn’t say ‘believed’ past tense, you have to maintain your faith to go to heaven!
The Greek word ‘believes’ is ‘Pistis’ which basically means faithfulness so faith equals faithfulness, according to the Bible!
So if you have problems with this, then you have problems with the word of God, the Bible!
You need to study these passages so that you can make it to heaven!
If your pastor cannot answer these questions according to what I just said, then you need to leave that church!
@junkyarddog unfortunately for you, there’s no shortcuts in the kingdom of God! I studied the Bible for 30+years, so that doesn’t count, but a PhD does in the eyes of God better? You’re acting like a CNN pundit ; there’s about 11 verses that I mentioned or so, so if you don’t wanna read those, you admittedly want to stay brainwashed in your ecclesiology, and you will answer for that. “out of the overflow of the heart, The mouth speaks,” so God sees it, even I see it, & he sees it even more.! Stop ignoring the Bible. You’re ignoring God in the process ! I just proved it with those 11 verses.
Matthew 12:36 every idle word will be judged!
It takes eight years or so to become a lawyer or a doctor and God is way more into spiritual things that he is the things of this world so the Bible is going to be deeper than becoming a lawyer or a doctor !
@junkyarddog Takes 8 years to become a lawyer or doctor, and God is into religion more than he is the things of this world, so the Bible is deeper than a PHD!
Matthew 12:36 every idle word will be judged, so get off this thread and other religious threads, until you have the right ecclesiology and Soteriology !
James 1 mentions the word religion two times in a positive light!
@junkyarddog 22 years ago I was teaching a Bible study with a guy who graduated from Dallas theological seminary DTS and we were Trading teaching every other week! I taught on 911 2001 the kids really were attentive that day , in the projects!
I give up on these OSAS believers.
That belief takes away your fear of GOD .
Gives you an unrepentant heart .
Slowly but surely.
Almost 10 minutes into Trey’s opening statement and not a single passage of Scripture to support his perspective. That can’t be good.
He referenced several scriptures. If you knew the Bible you wouldn’t need him to say “this is found in Ephesians 1:14” to know that it’s in the Bible.
@@BingoNamo-gb8pzyou are deceived
@@Cobluntzz because I know what the Bible says & don’t need a reference?
@@BingoNamo-gb8pz I don’t believe what you say I believe in what scripture says. Stop being lazy and open your Bible. Trey uses opinions and out of context scripture to help manipulate his point. Aaron just reads from scripture and lets scripture be his voice.
@@Cobluntzz I know what scripture says. That’s why I said he did reference scriptures. I didn’t say he has the right context or even that I agree with his opinions, but to say he didn’t reference scriptures is a lie.
1:20 Romans 11 question- Trey- "I don't understand your question" smh- The scripture clearly states X - Trey "You are wrong in your reading of that X, it isn't really X it is Y." Sad
I have watched all the episodes regarding this discussion. We have a lot in common. We seem to be disagreeing to agree without realizing this. Trey is still a church of Christ whether he or you and I like it or not. He obviously had a very bad experience where he grew up and went to worship. It was obvious to me that this pain surfaced every time he had no response to what Aaron was explaining by way of scripture; he would always mention that this was his experience in the past. He does not realize that a church of Christ is not subject to or answerable to anybody except the Judge; even elders. No debate is ever won by merely criticizing the other person's argument as "terrible" or "really bad." I pray for Trey and hope that our Lord softens his heart. I cannot understand how anyone could believe this false doctrine of "always saved."
Why the need for the cross?
Why do we bother if we have predestination {Greatly misunderstood concept}?
Why is Paul working so hard to bring the Gospel to everyone and anyone that will listen if he knows that this will not make a difference as Trey's doctrine would have all believe (Philippians 1:21 and many more verses).
Why pray at all for forgiveness of sins?
OSAS doctrine disproves the need for a Saviour and ultimately, existence of God. 💔
Why the need for the cross??? Once saved always saved only works BECAUSE OF the cross. It is total & eternal dependence on Jesus because of the blood of His cross. Why would I EVER take my faith OUT OF Jesus? I will ALWAYS put my faith in Him therefore I am ALWAYS saved. There is nothing else to cling to but Him.
Throw your Bible in the fire, dance around the fire, worshiping the evil and teach others to do so and see what God has to say on that final day. I pray that none of you do. God will say, Depart from Me... I pray for those that are misled by the faith alone doctrine.
Sin separate us from God
And His blood separates us from sin.
@@ivohoeijmakers659 and we must do our part to obey the God's want and do his will
@@Masterchip223001there is nothing we can or cant do than trust fully in His work. No not sinning or obeying the law, no baptism or tiding is gonna save u. Nothing we do or dont can save us but HE. So no one can boast eph 2:8-9. Its a gift of God. Not something we can earn. Nobody deserves to go to heaven cause were al guilty. No one is worthy, only Jesus is and its because our believe in Him, that He declares us worthy and God will let us in
@@Masterchip223001 and what is Gods will for us?
JOHN CH 3 VS 16 WHOs right u or JESUS CHRIST ?
I can’t believe we still argue this. I knew I was saved when I was 8. John 3:16.
It’s when I got older and came across false teaching that I started to doubt.
PLEASE EXSPLANE
If Aaron is not predestined, then why bother praying for him? This makes no sense to me. What’s the point?
God has predestined but humans don't know who. We are not to decide bc Jesus knows who are God's people and will separate sheep from goats bc wheat and tares look alike but only God knows who are His. God is revealing that those who are saved and obey His will were His people from the foundation of the world.
@@Anony584 then why bother?
Is it me or did Trey blur his screen at 1:18:12 mark and put tobacco in his mouth? Just curious if hes dippin while debating?
I saw Trey's screen blur too! Was wondering if he was doing something like that. 🤔
First let me say Aaron, God bless you and the work you have done for these videos, I am praying for you and appreciate what you are doing for the lord and what he is doing through you. Secondly Trey, I love you, I love your soul, and I want to see you in heaven one day, but the comment you made at around the 1:40:00 mark to the effect of what Aaron said hurt your feelings and that’s why you record members of the church. I have watched all of these debates and because of the amount of snide comments and pejorative statements you have made in all of these debates that Aaron I think has rather graciously let slide, or not addressed, I have a hard time feeling sympathy for you feeling bad about something he said about the doctrine you believe when you have consistently used the phrase “church of christer” intending a negative connotation or “you say that you believe that but you don’t really” insinuating you can see the motive of the person you are speaking on. No one is perfect clearly but I see this as an example of removing the plank from your eye before commenting on the speck in someone else’s. Again I say this in love, I pray for both of you and hope many others pray for me also
@@Quinn-xw5egad hominem
@@kevinking-kf2lb I've seen all these videos from beginning to end, and i can't think of a single time where Aaron was insulting to Trey. there may have been something i missed, but what i do not know is that Trey is constantly insulting to Aaron. i don't know how anyone can honestly watch these interactions and think otherwise, unless they are biased to begin with. If Im wrong, give me the time stamp and ill admit my missing it. if i gave you time stamps of Trey insulting Aaron or the church with ad hominem, it would number in the dozens through all 6 videos.
@@kevinking-kf2lb your assertion doesn't amount to proof. If Im wrong, show me how.
@@kevinking-kf2lb you made the assertion that i see what i want to see. give me an example or do you just accuse people of things without evidence?
@@kevinking-kf2lb oh know what confirmation bias is. i was asking for your evidence that I'm exhibiting it. you could've just said you had none and are guilty of slander.
David Pawson has noted that salvation, in the Bible comes in three grammatical tenses....past, present, and future, hence the idea of a process....like the one who perseveres to the end, shall be saved....
I just got done watching that video. lol. Amen brother
I think it is crazy that Tray starts by comparing Aaron with Satin twisting scripture. Although, it seems that Tray is doing a lot more twisting of scripture in order to comfort people in a life of sin.
👏🏿
Exactly, he was projecting!
Trey got slaughtered, not by Aron, by the Word of God.
this debate was over after Aaron's introduction. The Bible clearly teaches that there is a expectation on how your supposed to live. You can't just live anyway you want and still make it in. That doesn't even make any sense. Salvation is not unconditional. There are conditions we have to meet whether people like that or not. I wish people would just be honest and say how they really felt. Don't say that the Bible teaches that we'll always be saved when you know it doesn't. Just be honest and say you don't want to believe that God expects something from you. People just don't like being held accountable at the end of the day. Well despite how any of us feel, we all have to die one day, and we all WILL GIVE AN ACCOUNT.
As long as you are backed by scripture, your argument will stand. Aaron did it brilliantly! Solid.
Trey, you really need to prepare more, sir
@junkyarddog Stop defending another man! Don’t you think he can defend himself.
You look sorry. You look pitiful running after a man’s doctrine.
Aaron this Aaron that.
It’s like REGARDLESS of what Trey says, he’s right, to you.
@@junkyarddog-io7vostop playing a victim junkyarddog!
@@junkyarddog-io7vo stop playing a victim JD.
He never does and he wants people to take him seriously.
WHO?
Trey, please tell us how to reconcile eternal security with Mark 16:16. That verse says, "16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believeth not shall be damned." Suppose that I'm eternally secure. Then, there's nothing I can do to lose my salvation. But Mark 16:16 shows that a Christian can go to hell if he stops believing. So if you affirm eternal security and Mark 16:16, you contradict yourself. You imply that though there's nothing you can do to lose your salvation, there's at least one way you can lose it, You can stop believing in Christ.
The eternal security doctrine is false and immoral because it can promote license.
Keep reading friend, this doesn't apply to us
Mark 16:17-18 KJV
[17] And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; [18] they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
We are to come to salvation through Paul's gospel by faith in the blood
@@michaelgardner5986 My friend, I wonder why you doubt that it applies to us. So please tell me whether Judas was a Christian when he died. For me, it's hard to believe that Our Blessed Lord would have made a non-Christian one of the 12. After all, while he preached, his audience would think he was one. Besides, since our Lord is all-knowing, he would have realized that Judas was a non-Christian if he was one.
In Matthew 26:24, he suggests Judas would go to hell because he, Chist, says, "The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.”
How would Judas have been better off by, say, dying in the womb, if he needed to accept Christ to enter heaven? A fertile human egg can't accept anyone.
Judgement is worse for those who denied Christ and the way God says to come
@@williammcenaney1331 He was never a Christian Jesus choose him for destruction not for salvation
@@michaelgardner5986 That sounds right to me. But he may judge some deniers more harshly than he judges some others.
Hello Aaron, God bless you!
This debate was very helpful with my spiritual walk with My Lord and Savior .Man tends to put a heavy yoke upon believers, Jesus Christ has given us a free will and 2 paths, the narrow or the wide road. You must be born again to enter the Kingdom of God ! Do not confuse temptation with sin , God will always have an open door to exit. If we’re lead by the Spirit we will produce good fruit. Love and build up each other for God is love.
Trey had the worst 12 minutes of an opening statement that I've ever heard. He read one scripture from Psalms and that was it. I don't believe in OSAS and his opening did nothing but affirm my belief. Absolutely pitiful.
Very pitiful!
I believe that saving faith is not a one-time discreet event of faith that is credited to all times ahead even if the believer retracts his faith later in time. Saving faith is enduring faith. That is why the Scripture says: "Today is the day of salvation" (2 Corinth. 6:2). And again: “Today if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness” (Heb. 3:7-8). In Heb. 3:6, the author cautioned that we are Christ’s house “if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing firm to the end”. And again in Heb. 3:14, he repeats that: “For we are partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end”. All these scriptures mean that salvation is a continuum and becomes consummated only if we endure to the end (i.e. if we die in the faith or till Christ comes).
Trey's opening statement saying that Church of Christ members turn their noses up at people struggling with sin is completely not true. I have only seen members try to support other members that have fallen away. No, we dont ignore if a member is in sin and we will confront them if necessary but I've only seen this done in a loving and encouraging manner....not in a "I'm holier than thou and look down on you," way. I just wanted to point out how inaccurate that was.
Is “disfellowshipping” a form on patience and love? What if a person who is saved simply wanted to attend a Baptist church? Are they handled with patience and love?
@@nfcboys1984 I'm not even sure what exactly you are saying. I have only seen members leave the church that chose to leave. Members would be asked to leave if they were committing habitual sin (like adultery for example) and refused to acknowledge their sin and repent. I have never seen anyone forced to leave the church because they attended a Baptist Church. We have members that have attended services at other churches for funeral type arrangements. Why a church member would want to start worshipping at a Baptist Church though doesn't make sense to me if that's what you are referring to.
Looking forward to watching!
There are so many verses in the Bible that makes Trey, as others who believe once saved always saved, look foolish.
Of course Trey also fits the mold of "the wise made foolish."
The bible says we have to endure to the end to be saved
My thing is if a person truly is a blood naught born again child of God you’re not gonna gamble with your salvation and find out. One night stands sex out side of marriage is a thing of the past as well as going to bars and clubs getting drunk partying.I hope that makes sense I’m still learning though
Faith in works vs Faith in Christ. I will continue in my Faith in Christ. Chrst is my Savior not my works or my accomplishments in this life.
I always believed in OSAS, but after this debate, I'm strongly leaning towards believing one can lose ones salvation.
Next time Trey needs to be more prepared with biblical facts and cut out the ad hominems and strawman arguments.
If you want a OSAS advocate this is probably not the best choice. I wrote up a report supporting OSAS but not as a doctrine because a person COULD choose to stop putting their faith in Jesus to save them. But as long as your faith is always in Christ you will always be saved.
@BingoNamo-gb8pz I agree with your statement here. The question of OSAS is, can someone who is truly born again become "unborn again"?
There are bible passages that clearly indicate anyone who is truly saved will hold fast till the end and nothing will be able to separate us from the love of God and that no one will be able to snatch us from Christ because he upholds us by His power (we don't stay faithful by our own power).
But there are also passages that clearly indicate that people who were once saved can become "unsaved" / lose their salvation / stop trusting in God / become apostate.
@@terryolay4613 I think this was more likely to happen in the early church since all of this was very new. Some might have been hesitant to believe Jesus was really the Christ & may have “tested” Christianity but went back to Judaism (most likely to avoid persecution).
I never read anything in new testament that says once saved always saved. Lot of verse talk sbout repebt before its to late...
It is really difficult to listen to Trey. He does a lot of name-calling and passive-aggressive remarks, and then proceeds to say what the church of Christ believes, which is not the case at all! It’s a form of slander. If Trey was taught wrong, he needs to admit that, and not put forth incorrect accusations about the entire church. Trey appeals to his own emotions rather than to the word of God.
🎼 ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED SMOKING GUN POEM 🎼God told Adam not to eat from the tree 🎼 Satan told Eve to eat from the tree 🎼God told man not to get the mark of the beast 🎼 Satan told man, once saved always saved 🎼🎼🎼🎼🎼🎼🎼🎼🎼🎼🎼🎼🎼🎼🎼