Another three hours of Trey reading the same verses over and over again while putting emphasis on different words each time he reads it. Preach the word Aaron.
You must be one of those people who think you know we everything and everyone Trey left to he coc but don't judge him the LORD may be leading him out of the coc to put h somewhere where he wants him
I FEEL SORRY FOR ALL IN THE COC 😢 Trey is 👉 to Jesus of the Bible and the COC believes another Gospel aka another Jesus. Aaron dies not like the saving Gospel of Jesus Christ 1st CORINTHIANS 15:1-4 , Salvation is a gift of God EPHESIANS 2:8-9. Jesus said verily verily I say unto you he that believeth on me has everlasting life. John 14:6. The spiritually blind are taught to focus on themselves and not Jesus. The works of the flesh are dead works the Bible talks all about it. Sad day when they learn the hard way 😢
Cornelius was told to fetch for Peter, who would tell him..."WORDS"....whereby he and his household of faith! The Gospel saves us....Acts 2: 38...! Peter commanded them to be baptized in water...inorder to have remission of their sins! Romans 16: 16
“The only church of Christ.” The COC is nothing more than a legalistic cult that puts beautiful saints involved in absolute turmoil. My wife’s father is a COC preacher and I’ve seen the absolute havoc that legalism, works based theology and a non certainty of salvation can have in a family. Trey sees the exact same effects
Amen I pray they won't have to go through great tribulation or worse eternal damnation. The problem is they don't believe the saving Gospel of Jesus Christ 1st CORINTHIANS 15:1-4 ,Salvation is a gift of God EPHESIANS 2:8-9 , Jesus said verily verily I say unto you he that believeth on me has everlasting life. 6:47. Over 200 scriptures points to eternal security, Jesus preached eternal security 💯. I feel heart broken so many reject the Gospel. We are instructed not to complicate the simplicity of Christ. They believe in another Jesus, period. I really makes me sick in my stomach when reading these comments. The pride. That's what got satan kicked out of heaven for and he deceived a third of the angels. This is happening in these church cults. Jesus said come out of her my people. They profess to be wise but become fools. They don't believe what Jesus did for them is good enough. It's like how the pope said Jesus failed at the cross. We are definitely in the last days. They can't even see that satan is blinding then by keeping the focus on themselves and not Jesus. 😢
@@jrome198679@jrome198679 In the last twenty years I've attended CofE then Methodist, then a charismatic church and last four years a small traditional CoC. Never seen any miracles but heard a lot of babbling.
@@bradleymays2316 well I should have said grows it, I absolutely love talking about Gods word and what it says! And love to listen to different viewpoints so I can grow my understanding of where other denominations are coming from. But after listening to this 3 times or so I’ve seen that Mr.fisher used different doctrines while Aaron stayed to Gods word and it’s context. Listening to these 2 men has made me a better man for my family and for me.
He probably is learned the church of Christ just doesn't like that I've had meetings with members of the church of Christ I go to and they can't understand what I'm talking about or people on youtube they don't know that as my non denominational church that preaches truth is spiritual a church of Christ regardless of what the name of the church is I'm talking non denominational church
@@harolddavis1493 stop speaking on the COC. You can’t be a member and talk about the Lords Body. Impossible. So you’re saying it doesn’t matter what you’re called by? Body of Christ is who we are. That’s who JESUS said we are. We are called by HIM. Not man.
I came to the closure, with an emphasis on the parable of the sower. It is pointless to give water to some seeds, where they fell on stony places and amongst the thorns . But Aaron your gifts are invaluable to the us seeds which fell on good ground. Your earnest study, your faith and the Holy Spirit in you can only be described as a shining light of the Lord’s way. Thoroughly appreciated your efforts and commitment, but alas…some will only hear what is pleasing to their ears.
@@bradleymays2316 It maybe be wise to consider sanctification (i.e.: the steps to becoming Christ Like) as a continuance of salvation. Christians are Christ followers and we all start with our walk through repentance, and the need for the remission of our sins. Also as a Christian we do what Christ did (he was baptised, albeit under a different dispensation) and the gospels and epistles indicate baptism as a step to our closeness to the teachings. I cannot see how we can take parts out of the teachings, determine that it is not needed. Let’s stay in the word. In the fullness of it and apply it as His church. So much was addressed already between Jews and Christians, why create post scriptures separations between the church with incompleteness of the application of the word? Let’s be Berean, and study and apply all of the word, and rely only on the word and the understanding the Spirit gives us through it, rather than human understandings, reasonings and omissions.
@@bradleymays2316 Baptism doth also now save us; I Peter 3:21. Read Acts 8:35-39 and note what needs to be done when Jesus is preached. Saul/Paul was told "Why tarriest thou? Arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins calling on the name of the Lord. What is the purpose of baptism here? Visit the church of Christ (Romans 16:16) for any questions you may have.
We are only saved after we obey the gospel in the waters of baptism, being submerged, dying of self, and being resurrected as a child of God, and entered into the book of life. And then we are to go into the world, and preach the gospel as we study to show thy self approved. Jesus said, I will build my church. He didn’t say I will build my church so man can create 30,000 denominations of my church. All those denominations have added doctrine by men. Confusing the masses.
vincediesel307 Well said about the denominations. I would also add that some people want to worship the way they want to worship and could care less what God wants. They want to "have it their way." Others just don't study the word of God and let their "so called" pastors tell them what the word of God says without checking to see if what they say is truth; so very sad. And then there are others who know what they need to do but they just want to live like the world. I pray that someday this will all change.
@@lindahutchens8612 you worship according to what you THINK the Bible says. You are the same as a denomination but just won't admit it. Y'all worship your church name and not the Christ of the church. Anyone can put a name outside of a building and say that means something. Please give me ONE scripture that says the church had to have a specific name! Here are 3 church names that I guess y'all would call denominations and put down but that the inspired Biblical writer(s) thought were ok. 1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all CHURCHES OF THE SAINTS . Romans 16:4 Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the CHURCHES OF THE GENTILES. Why would Paul refer to the churches of the Gentiles? Pretty DEVISIVE isn't it? How dare he? He wouldn't be allowed in the CoC today. Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Well done Aaron your explanation makes sence, but trey jumps from one to other Scriptures to confuse the listener confuse,his reaction and his cause speak tells us that ,trey trying to cover and aaron clears by his answer.❤
@@bradleymays2316 Mark 16:16 as simple as can be......believe and baptism. We must take the whole counsel of God, Saul who later became the apostle Paul was told "Why tarriest thou? Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins calling on the name of the Lord."
@@bradleymays2316John 3:16 also says nothing of repentance. So according to your proof texting, repentance is not required from God. Acts 3:19 *repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord* No repentance no blotting out of sins. John 3:16 teaches true belief which is never alone but always obeys Gods commandments, Acts 17:30 *Truly these times of ignorance God overlooked but now commands all men everywhere to repent* True Biblical faith always does/obeys the commandments of God. Faith alone is dead, it is a do nothing belief that never saved anyone.
@@faithlexa Ephesians 1:1-6 1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: 2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. You missed a key word in the SCRIPTURES… Verse 4 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: How did HE choose us? “In HIM” the Scripture says. When? Before the world began. God NEVER chose YOU or anybody, separate AND apart from CHRIST. God chose CHRIST from the beginning- where ALL spiritual blessings are. He didn’t choose YOU, nor ME from the beginning to be saved. The saving is in JESUS… so if Jesus hadn’t come yet, how could you have been saved from the beginning ? It’s the BLOOD of Christ that takes away the sins of man…. God chose Jesus. The Scriptures says “ In Him” We are chosen “IN HIM”. Those who are “IN HIM” are chosen. Nobody is CHOSEN outside of Jesus. But everybody IN Jesus is CHOSEN… Before the world began, GOD chose JESUS to be the One where all spiritual blessings will be found. That’s what the Scriptures teaches. It does not teach that GOD chose anyone separate before the world began. That takes away free will… that God has given us to obey Him.
jaykaufman6339 What must I do (Acts 2:37) and the answer is in Acts 2:38 "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Why wasn't the answer in Acts 2:38 "There is nothing you can do????
THAT'S RIGHT 💯 ETERNAL SECURITY. Jesus said that he wants us to know we have life. Do these people in the COC read thoer Bible. They definitely do not preach the gospel 1st CORINTHIANS 15:1-4 ,They believe in another Jesus. A graven image in this cult man created a doctrine of demons.😢😢😢
@@bradleymays2316 , if you can’t understand something as simple as following Gods Commandments, then your saying Christ died in vain! I hope you open your heart ❤️ along with everyone else who doesn’t believe! You can’t say you believe when you don’t obey scripture 🥺
Philippiens 2:12 Is talking to christians that are already saved. "Work at (your) salvation " there already saved but work at it, in a sense to be Holy, walk the way God wants you to walk.
@adamallen3695 Ephesians 2:8-10 (KJV) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Salvation is not of works
Thank you for this episode. I was at a youth rally and heard the speaker say this, “When you have faith in God your sins are going to be washed away b/c of his grace.” My eyes were wide open. I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. A youth minister in the church was using Rom 4 just like Trey. This was in the Church of Christ. This teaching is creeping in everywhere. If you grew up baptist or Calvinist you can see it right away, others don’t seem to catch it as easily. I honestly don’t think he even knew what he was saying.
shellbell2167 Each church of Christ is autonomous and not all are teaching the truth and that is why we need to study for ourselves to know when error is being taught.
So what makes Romans 4 unacceptable? What other parts of scripture do you reject? And on what basis? Simply because of your upstart church's 220 years of interpretation?
@@AlanCanon2222who said Romans 4 was unacceptable? “Upstart Church” 😂. That’s a good one. Was John Calvin called an “upsart” in 1536? Was Luther an “upstart” in 1517?
@@shellbell2167No, but neither Calvin or Luther said the things that my Church of Christ elders said, which was "n*gger" every other word. And I don't care if you forgive me or not for distancing myself from that Church of Christ. Racism is ignorant. Biblical justification for why Black people are inferior is still ignorant. If you want to come fight me, I'll give you my address and let you come do what my Church of Christ elder did to me for protesting all the elders talking sh*t about Black people. I even won't resist you strangling me, if you promise that I can get it all on video. I know this about the Churches of Christ. You all want your Black slaves back. You're pissed because you lost the Civil War. Doesn't change the fact that you lost it. In the words of my favorite engineering disaster podcast, "General Sherman revamped the entire fire code of the city of Atlanta, and he did it without filing a permit." We in the North will f*cking fight you. Louisville went with the North. I was raised in Louisville by Church of Christ parents who were racist, but still were glad that the Union won the War. Now my parents are dead and the only Church of Christ leaders are the ones who long for those old days of slavery. You think you've got a Command, Example, or Necessary Inference as to why Black people should still be your slaves. Know what? I don't f*cking care, and if I ever meet another Church of Christer, I will act as General Sherman did. It's only by the mercy of Lincoln and Grant that you and your clutch of White Supremacists weren't executed to extinction. Because we are not like you. And by "we", I mean the great majority of human beings. You Church of Christers are so quick to say we're all going to Hell. I know why you say that. Because you want your Black slaves back. You're not going to get them back. YOU LOST.
@@shellbell2167 on the scale of human history, and prehistory, Christianity itself is an upstart. Modern humans emerged something like an eighth to a quarter million years ago. Christianity, in a thousand years, will have gone the way of all flesh.
The problem with faith alone is it doesn’t account for what Jesus tells us to do! We know that He suffered, bleed and died for us. But he also gave us Commandments to follow.
The Old Testament saints were given commands to do and not do and how did that work out. We are still not able to keep ANY COMMANDS perfectly just as the Old Testament saints couldn't keep the Law and if you put yourself under a Law either Old or New Testament to be saved then you MUST keep them all PERFECTLY. Good luck with that.
@@dwbid42 1J OHN 3: 9,"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him and he cannot sin. because he is born of God." V-24, "And he that keep eth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the sprit which he hath given us." Let us study and be more knowledgeable so that we can do the right thing.
@@hermansmikle6685 "LET US STUDY AND BE MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE SO THAT WE CAN DO THE RIGHT THING." Not sure what you're getting at here but if you're even insinuating that believers (saved people) are sinless then you need to do a lot more studying. *1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST HIS SON CLEANSETH US FROM ALL SIN. *1Jn 1:8 IF WE SAY THAT WE HAVE NO SIN, WE DECEIVE OURSELVES, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN US. *1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And IF ANY MAN SIN, WE HAVE AN ADVOCATE WITH THE FATHER, Jesus Christ the righteous: *1Jn 5:16 IF ANY MAN SEE HIS BROTHER SIN A SIN WHICH IS NOT UNTO DEATH, HE SHALL ASK, AND HE SHALL GIVE HIM LIFE FOR THEM THAT SIN NOT UNTO DEATH. THERE IS A SIN UNTO DEATH: I DO NOT SAY THAT HE SHALL PRAY FOR IT. *1Jn 5:17 ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS IS SIN: AND THERE IS A SIN NOT UNTO DEATH.
@larryjohnson2945, I think you do not understand what it means by we are saved by faith alone. It does not mean that it is not necessary for us to obey God if we are saved by faith alone.. But on the other hand it is futile to say that I am obedient to the commandment of God even though I am not saved because I have no faith, because you can never honestly obey the commandments of God if you are not saved yet through faith...
The big problem with Trey's doctrine is that he can never know if he is truly saved. That's just the facts. He may deny that, but the logic in what he teaches is that he can't truly know if he's saved.
Amen. For Trey to claim members of the church of Christ are in constant fear of being lost is in reality what reformed theology does. No one can know they are elect because you cannot do anything to receive Gods grace. Only God must cherry pick you. And since their god, has only chosen some to be saved, no one can know if they are the elect. They only believe they are based on some religious experience, emotional experience. They believe they are saved based on some emotion not on what saith the Scriptures.
@@bookchapterverse6830Also it takes arrogance to think I'm elected God loves me buy not you. Truly humble folks would always wonder if they have truly been cherry picked. Calvinism breeds puffed up prideful people.
Aaron clearly won this debate. I admire his patience as well. I believe this endeavor (the various debates between Aaron and Trey) are a good idea as we need more public debates. However I don’t think this format is going to be fruitful. It really needs to be moderated. One HUGE topic they need to cover is the work of the Holy Spirit today. “HOW” he works in todays a Christian age. There are differences in how He operated in the 1st century church vs today. Another thing, believers in reformed theology read their doctrine into the text but they ignore the context. Trey demonstrated that many times. He hasn’t proven anything from the text yet. He’s been on his heels the whole time dancing around playing word games like Aaron indicated. I hope Trey comes to a knowledge of the truth. But it takes an honest heart and a pure desire for truth and nothing but the truth.
I hope you come to the truth, and realize that water baptism, as a prerequisite to salvation, is just wrong in so many ways….well done Trey, once again, making it so very simple
@@bradleymays2316 Jesus Himself said one must believe and be baptized to be saved, Mark 16:15-16 *he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, he that believeth not shall be danmed* Bradleymays, you just disagreed with Jesus!
Good exposition of view points! In the end the listener needs to do their own reading of scripture and ask God for wisdom in prayer when reading His word. I pray the Lord will guide us all to the truth and that we may be humble enough through God's grace, to recognize when we are in error, and not hold on to men's doctrine but rather Christ's doctrine. God bless y'all! 🙏
Aaron playing chess, Trey is a subpar checkers player. This is really bad. Aaron, you are full of grace in your handling of Trey even through his insults.
I watched the debate until the end and then re-watched several parts of it. Trey Fisher claims that true Christianity says that I’m accepted therefore I believe. Trey starts his final arguments in time stamp 2:48:00. But Trey does not help his FAITH only belief system with his analogies. I would question anyone who uses twisted analogies to support their belief system. I admit that a long video could be made on Trey’s assertions but these statements are meant as a starting point for a more thorough study. In time stamp 2:50:20 through 2:50:40 Trey says that a father who comforts a scared crying child (who is thinking a monster is under his bed) doesn’t expect the child to do anything (only faith and trust). I would say that the child is expected to do something: stop crying and go to sleep, and yes, over time develop even more trust in his father. In time stamp 2:51:15 through 2:51:28, Trey goes to John 3:15 which refers to Numbers 21:8-9 (healing from fiery serpent bites). Trey makes the statement that those who were bitten would be healed when they saw the brazen serpent. The person did not even have to run to it. Considering the size of the encampment, a person might have to travel a great distance (potentially among more snakes) so that he could look on the image. Is going to the serpent and looking at it a work? And further, was the snake-bitten person healed when he had faith that looking at the brass serpent would heal or did he actually have to go and look at it? What if he would not even look up at the image even though it was nearby? In time stamp 2:52:14, Trey goes to 1 Corinthians 3:6-7 and tries to answer the ‘seed of belief’ question from Aaron. The text that Trey quoted says that God gave the increase (it’s God’s work). All that is true but if Trey had read verse 9, everything would have become clear. [1 Corinthians 3:9 For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, you are God's building.] Yes, God gives the increase, but we must do our part. In time stamp 2:54:09 through 2:54:28, Trey talks about Abraham being justified before circumcision and then uses Romans 4: 9-11 and 16-18 as proof. If circumcision is only a ceremony/ritual why was God so angry with Moses that He sought to kill him for not circumcising his own son? (Exodus 4:24-26) Also, look at Romans 4:12 “and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but also walked in the steps of the faith which our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised.” Abraham walked in the steps of faith by obeying God in Genesis 12 when God told him to leave his country and his family and by offering sacrifices to God. In time stamp 2:55:40 through 2:56:45 Trey equates baptism to a wedding ceremony and then makes the assertion that the couple is married when they buy the marriage license and that the actual marriage ceremony is just for show. I did some research for the state of TN and here is what I found: A marriage license is a document issued by the county clerk that allows a couple to get married. Then the marriage must take place within 30 days after getting that legal document. Then a marriage certificate (again certain requirements must be met) is issued that shows the couple is legally married. So, a marriage license is obtained prior to the wedding ceremony, while a marriage certificate is issued following the ceremony. Louisiana, where Trey is from, is even more strict: Not only is the couple not married when they get the license, but they must wait 24 hours after getting the license before the ceremony can even take place, unless they get special permission. Thus, his analogy of being married when a couple gets a marriage license, then having a wedding ceremony, to being saved first, then later having the ceremony of baptism falls flat. Finally, let’s go to the Bible for the true definition of faith (Hebrews 11:1 NKJV) “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” and how to get faith (Romans 10:17 NKJV) “So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” Trey uses BDAG to show that faith means trust and it does along with the system of faith. Now, let’s go back to the ‘BY FAITH’ statements in Hebrews 11:3 - 31. Each example of the faithful follows the pattern TRUSTACTIONRECEIVED… But don’t reason like Trey who says the ‘receiving’ comes at the moment you have ‘trust’ and you then act because you have already received it.
That’s exactly one of the questions I’ve always had for Calvinists Why bother proclaiming the gospel are teaching people disciple ship anything like that it’s pointless if you believe as a Calvinist, which I don’t
2:49:00 Trey must have forgotten what he said in an earlier discussion with Aaron. Ananias didn't know Paul was already saved and he was trying to fulfill the great commission when he told Paul to arise and be baptized. Yet apparently in reality I guess he did know Paul was saved because he called him brother. Come on Trey, you are terribly inconsistent.
Member of the church of Christ since 1985, and I’ve noticed lots false brethren who just come and go. Are the ones who talk about our Lord Jesus Christ and his doctrine. And try to put down his followers .
Big Trey Fisher error at 1:00:35. He references 1 John 5 and takes it out of context to argue belief alone (aka faith alone) saves a person. "Everyone who believes Jesus is the Christ has been born of God..." Seems like a slam dunk, right? But it's not. Read the rest of the passage and don't take it out of context to see what BELIEF entails. Verse 2: "...and everyone who LOVES the One who gives new birth" "Who gives" means something has yet to be given...so why is "loving" preceding something given (we also see love preceding new birth in 4:7, 4 :20)? What does this love entail? Verse 3: "that we keep [God's] commandments." In the very passage Trey uses to prooftext his false doctrine, there is ample proof that loving and doing commandments precede new birth. If one reads further, the other things that precede the new birth are "receiving, witness" v. 9, and "having," v. 12. All of these are summarized in 1 John 3:23-24 and then discussed individually. Belief and commandments are inextricably linked and should not be separated, lest heresy result as Trey has done. This means that not only is Trey's timeline of birth wrong, but his definition (or "christianese") of belief is also in error.
Well done, Aaron. Trey seems to be putting more effort into being smug instead of honestly examining the Word. I pray his eyes are opened and his heart is softened.
I pray your eyes are opened to the truth, salvation requires no work of your own, including water baptism….did the thief on the cross get a water baptism?
@@bradleymays2316 Show proof he didn’t get baptized…. Don’t imply Scripture that’s not Scripture… You don’t know if he did or didn’t. I love when people bring up the thief… Nobody knows IF he was baptized with the baptism of John. Therefore. Try again.
@@jarvisprice1992show proof that a church has to have a specific name like y'all claim. Just on verse will do. Here are 3 church names that I guess y'all would call denominations and put down but that the inspired Biblical writer(s) thought were ok. 1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all CHURCHES OF THE SAINTS . Romans 16:4 Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the CHURCHES OF THE GENTILES. Why would Paul refer to the churches of the Gentiles? Pretty DEVISIVE isn't it? How dare he? He wouldn't be allowed in the CoC today. Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
@@dwbid42 They are Scriptural. But the order of worship must follow. There are many names for the body. In Scripture. Choose one, and stick to the Scriptures
It is so painful to listen to Trey talk about the word of God. He and many like him teach from verses that do not stand alone! The Bible is crystal clear that we must be baptized to be saved , staying faithful unto death, of course. That is one of the reasons why many are going to hear depart from me you workers of lawlessness in the book of Matthew if you do not . 🙏🏼
So Trey is now saying that the context should tell you what kind of believe the passage is talking about. He also says ‘one can believe that Jesus is the Christ’ but that will not be enough to be saved. But he will later tell Aaron that whenever the Bible says ‘believe’ the church of Christ should forget about context and accept it as believe only. VERY INCONSISTENT.
This corrupt false teaching that Trey is caught up in…..is truly heartbreaking …..lies and deceit are Satans best tricks here……May the Lord continue to richly bless Aaron to thoroughly and patiently wipe up the floor with this heresy ….I pray for Treys mislead soul…..it truly is pitiful 🙏🏽
The answer is, depending on who you ask, either you don't, or you are engaged in a lifetime of faithful works. The former is how many of our loved ones end up convinced they are saved but they can live sinful lives. The later leads to a chicken and the egg problem for which I only found a solution in the teachings of the Church of Christ: A Calvinist is only elect if he does good works, election is necessary for salvation, but good works don't influence God to that person's salvation. The Biblical answer is simple: Biblical faith requires obedience and is a prerequisite for salvation.
@Harold Zwingley I was raised in a Calvinist denomination. According to the doctrines of that group, God gave the elect a new heart and that new heart produces righteous works as evidence. That may not fit the doctrines of whatever group you are affiliated with, but I do have firsthand understanding of at least a flavor of Calvinist doctrine. I am not speaking out of ignorance; I'm writing things I heard with my own ears from ordained ministers from the pulpit and in classes.
1:05:12 Trey evades a "belief saves" question through bait and switch. Trey substitutes "intellectual knowledge" into the Bible in place of "belief." He does this several times. Notice these holes in his reasoning.
He also substitutes "belief" for "faith." Also note that he keeps saying "nothing you can do" and "no works" yet keeps saying to believe, trust, have confidence, demonstrate, know, and more - all verbs, all works, all ergon, all things a person does!
The Bible clearly tells us we are dead spiritually and God must awaken us to our NEED of the FINISHED and completed work of the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation
I think Aaron allows Trey to have his way too many times. Being patient but Aaron should not allow him switch issues and ran away from passages like that
Every time Aaron is explaining the truth, and every time Aaron catches trade in a false hood trade mumbles out something changes, the subject and run over to another scripture. Hey, let’s go here he never stays right there where they are and explains the truth. He never answers the question. Thank you Aaron for being so patientand begrudgingly and hard I’m learning but oh my God it’s so hard to listen to this and listen to. You’re such a patient guy.
19:42 Trey Fisher has a slippery slope problem here regarding what he says about when certain letters were being written and inferring what information people may have had. Even though the first Corinthian letter was written in "about" whenever you want to put the date, they already had the gospel before the letter (1 Corinthians 1:4-7, 2:1-5, 3:1-9). The gospel had been preached (past tense) in 15:1. The testimony of Christ had already been confirmed in Corinth (1:6). In fact, Paul, Apollos, and others were there baptizing long ago and before any of the dates Trey references (1 Corinthians 1:12-17). The Corinthians had already been called in 1:26. They were already meeting as a church in 1 Corinthians 14 and taking the Lord's Supper in chapter 11. They were exercising gifts from the Holy Spirit in 12-14. They are "God's building," 3:9, and a "temple of God," 3:16, a temple for the Holy Spirit," 6:19. Here's the big defeater of Trey Fisher's argument. The Corinthian message was not new revelation. It was to and in accord "with all who in every place call upon the name of our Lord...), 1 Cor. 1:2. But, most importantly, the teachings of 1 Corinthians existed in "all churches," 7:17, 11:16, 14:33. 1 Corinthians contained nothing new for them and, according to the letter, was a reminder of what they and "all the churches" already knew. He doesn't stop for a second to think that the very letter he references to make his argument-in-the-moment defeats his overall point.
I am appaled at Trey's deceptive manipulations. At 1:20 (ish) in reference to BDAG with respect to "baptism" he says he is concerned with context, but then highlights the first portion of the definition ONLY - thus failing to grasp the context. The whole of the definition says baptism is (yes) a "ceremony" ... but then goes on to say that it is "for the purpose of ... establishing a relationship with God." This man is deceptive and decieved.
I’m thankful for these recorded discussions of foundational doctrine of salvation, and highlights of the false teachings of Calvinism. A true believer of Calvinism does not need the Bible, church, or even to evangelize (they must not get that core truth or why would they bother trying to evangelize or teach others)…because there is literally nothing you can do or say to be saved or lost…it’s all done for you according to their teaching. Aaron, you have a wonderful knowledge of God’s word and comprehension of how scripture logically supports itself. Unfortunately, Trey does what every false doctrine believer I’ve studied with does, which is not answer questions directly but plays word judo, insert doctrinal (not scriptural) context, deflect, distract, and deny the plain reading of scripture. Trey adds to his false doctrine many false characteristics/beliefs that the “Church of Christ” believe… I question whether he ever spent time in a faithful congregation. I’ve spent more time among Christ’s church than Trey is years old, and I’ve never heard what he attributes to Church of Christ (particularly in the Cultish video). Glory to God for His word being defended and taught by Aaron and the faithful GBN cast! 🙏
1:26 - If baptism is just a ceremony that doesn’t save an individual then marriage is a ceremony that doesn’t unite a couple. Baptism is where one enters into a covenant with God. Trey frustrates me and I am so glad that Aaron is patient with him. Trey tries so hard to twist things. I wish he would put the same effort into just seeing what the scriptures plainly teach. 🙏
A marriage ceremony is something our laws require. If you want to put yourself under the New Testament commands or law then be sure and keep them all perfectly as that's what a Holy God requires. Good luck with that.
Grew up Roman Catholic till like 12, then was Non Denominational. I went and did rehabilitation in South Carolina they were Pentacostal but I was there for 3 months... Best time of my life Pastor Wayne Teen Challenge South Carolina we would travel every Sunday all over SC me and my friend Andrew would do "The Prodigal Son" skit then we would give our testimonies......but that was the first time I ever actually read the Bible Hosea 10:12 "plant the good seed of righteousness, and you shall harvest a crop of love, plow up the hard ground of your hearts for now is the time to seek the Lord that he may come and shower righteousness upon you" I was given 2 scriptures to memorize a week James 1:25 was the first one given to me by my teacher l "but he who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty,and persevers, being no hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing" was my first ever really memorized.. But James 1:23-24 "For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks intently at his natural face in a mirror". For he looks at himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like" James was first Letter I read.... Faith without works is dead... God blessed me down there and you could feel his presence a lot more then up here in PA.. idk man it's all about The Book u don't preach religion you preach The Word... SOUTH CAROLINA was truly amazing I was 22 years old (2016) I FIND MYSELF LOOKING BACK TO THOSE DAYS...😢 I FELL BACK OFF BUT I DID BECOME SAVED THERE..... By 3rd month I had 60+scriptures memorized, but I got baptized again down there professing my love and belief that God sent his Son Jesus Christ to die for our sins Confess with your mouth and believe in your heart ❤️... I don't think it's that "deep" each person has their own relationship/understanding of God and the Bible... We all interpret differently. Discerning the word is what can be challenging. But doing those things with other friends, scholar's, def elders (1 Peter 5:5), church, ect. Good video tho kudos to both of ya
@@lindahutchens8612did you know a lot is saved people (believers) were baptized in the N.T.? Y'all do this all the time"he was baptized", "they were baptized" - that means nothing except that people were being baptized. The Jews baptized proselytes, John the Baptist baptized disciples as did Jesus' disciples. The Jews did it to show that those baptized were followers of the Jewish religion, John the Baptist did it to show they had repented and were his followers and Jesus'disciples did it to show that those baptized were followers of Jesus. There was no saving efficacy for salvation in any of those baptisms just as baptism doesn't save anyone today. There is no indication in all of the N.T. that water Baptism changed on Pentecost. Pentecost represented not a change in water baptism but the coming of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. That was the ONLY reason that all of his disciples were told to tarry in Jerusalem.
@@dwbid42 ”Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.“ Acts 2:37-38 NKJV. To receive remission of sins aka saved
@@Cobluntzz You're typical CoC I give a scripture that you completely ignore and jump to another of your pet verses that doesn't hold WATER (pardon the pun) either. [ “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.“ Acts 2:37-38 NKJV. To receive remission of sins aka saved] Verse 38 hinges on the meaning of the Greek word "eis" that is translated "for" in that verse. The problem with "for" meaning IN ORDER TO RECEIVE OR OBTAIN is the following verse and a few others! Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water UNTO repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: The word translated "unto" in Mat 3:11 is the same Greek word "eis" So unless you think (I know it's tough for a CoC member) that John baptized so that people could receive or obtain repentance (and it doesn't) then it probably doesn't mean that in Acts 2:38 either! In fact knowing you're probably CoC I'll show you that it CAN NOT mean that in Mat 3:11 because John wouldn't baptize anyone unless he thought that they had brought forth fruit worthy of repentance (showed signs they had repented. Mat 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Mat 3:8 BRING FORTH THEREFORE FRUITS MEET FOR REPENTANCE Luk 3:7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Luk 3:8 BRING FORTH THEREFORE FRUITS WORTHY OF REPENTANCE, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
Casts 8:12 But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized
I was part Of icoc and some of their practices are based on quotas - when you are in a spiritual warfare and fight against dark forces of evil - it is not easy or fun and even more difficult when u are pressured to “perform” - however I would prefer to find an alternative- a church where I can worship and praise God without being force to meet a quotas or - please provide alternative solutions
If two 17 year olds, one a Baptist and the other a Campbellite/CoC goer, get baptized at the same time as soon as possible after recognizing they are sinners in need of a Savior, and then subsequently they hear and believe in the death, burial , and resurrection of the Lord Jesus, do both of them come out of the water saved, or just one of them? If your answer is only one of them, which one and why? I hope you answer correctly. *Grace and peace in Christ. ✝️📖🙏🏼😇
First the Church of Christ was not started by Campbell. It was started by Jesus Christ. Second we don’t “get baptized”. We obey the gospel. The gospel teaches we must hear believe repent confess and be baptized for remission of sins. The baptist believes that your saved before baptism and your just showing your faith by baptism then no you are not saved.
When he use Ezekiel to support John 3 1_7 a teacher of Israel would also know, about Noah's ark gen. 6 1 Peter 3 vs 21 Naman 2 kings 5 the water cured him.
Jesus said that a man must be born again of the water and the Spirit, or they cannot enter the Kingdom of God John 3:5. Both appear to be equally important. I have seen people go down in the water and come up no different than before they went down. Unless one believes the Word of the gospel and feels Godly sorrow for their sin, and humbles themself before God, the water alone will do them no good. I've also seen people who although they believe in Jesus and what was done at the cross for them and humble themselves but yet they refuse to obey God's Word that says they need to be baptized. Belief without obedience is not real faith. See Hebrews 5:9 and James 2:19-26
faith is of God each person has a measure of faith either we act on said faith or not whether we understand the gospel or not is on God by hearing through faith we respond by believing which is an act of faith
Trey saying work means any deed doesnt mean works in Romans are talking about any deeds you can do or think of. The context is works of moses or if we replace 'works' with the definition of the word it would be talking about: any deeds you can do of Moses or any deeds of the law. The context, which is works of the law of Moses, is important.
When two words that mean two different things, yet produce the same result, proves a figure is being used. Interpretation demands one understand this. Bullinger states in his work on figures, “Applied to words, a figure denotes some form which a word or sentence takes, different from its ordinary and natural form.” Trey insists in the definition yet denies a synecdoche is being used. That is the only way to harmonize two words meaning different things ending to the same outcome. Synecdoche of the part is so obvious.
@@bobbyadkins6983 No Holy Spirit baptism not saves any one it was on Saul and on judges of Israel it fulfillment Joels prophesy. Only baptism for remission of your sins saves you servant of Satan.
Trey only seems to control this these conversations because he's an introvert and has a position of "knowledge" in his mindset.. Likewise, I feel Aaron appears to be chasing this, but he is fired up and high energy, so it is remarkable how patient he is because I'd have been shaking Trey by the shoulders long ago.
it happens when you believe. by not believing you are already breaking the commands and nobody has kept the law we all have broken it so trying to keep the commands apart from Christ is impossible.
As for gifts, they will cease when that which is perfect comes” (paraphrasing) With context, we can determine it’s speaking of the entire text or the Bible…we now have the Bible, which means miracles gifts like healing and speaking in tongues have now ceased.
@@bricemilleson Nothing in the context suggests that the "PERFECT" is the complete NT. For one, Paul did not say anything specifically about a BOOK or a new set of SCRIPTURES. Certainly Paul made no about the creation of a collection NT in any of his other writings. The word PERFECT is a NEUTER adjective a PERFECT (thing). The noun it describes is not defined. Don't you think that if it were Paul's intention to tell them that the gifts they were experiencing were going to pass away and replaced by a book that he would have at least mentioned that book? However the central idea (the word BOOK or Biblios does not appear in the passage. If he MEANT to say perfect book why did he not say perfect BOOK rather than just perfect thing? (1 Corinthians 13:10) Also the Ante-Nicene fathers, the generations of Christians who followed the Apostles wrote that the charismatic gifts continued long after the death of the Apostles
John 3:5 Trey tries to argue how would Nicodemus know about bein born again per Jesus words to him? Then he proceeds to argue about the contrast to that and the thief on the cross and not telling him but he did to Nicodemus. Simple answer Trey. When you went and pointed to EZE and JER you totally ignored that all of that was FUTURE. Nicodemus should have known the promise of the future which was not yet realized. That means it would have been made more clear the fulness of how. The Thief would still not have been under this because there was NO RESURRECTION! He was given a promise by the TESTATOR BEFORE HE DIED. That's all he needed. That has nothing to do with the reality of Christ in you which was the new reality of the covenant.
Aaron, you did a great job brother and I commend the restrain from Trey’s tiring “gotcha” moments. If you’re a Calvinist, notice that Trey’s supposed “Baptism is a ceremony or sacrament” is his best attempt to seem victorious, not realizing that the Bible defines baptism as being “for the remission of sins.” (Acts 2:38) Meaning, Bible definitions overrule uninspired men who wrote Greek lexicons. That’s a fact. As for my Calvinist friends or any other group, please, continue watching all these debates and make a decision based upon what the Bible actually says in its totality.
In Romans four, notice Trey always adds to the term work, or works plural, the thought “at all.” If anyone works at all. The context is not talking about “at all” because Paul just sent several chapters showing we all have sinned and fall short. We may even keep the entire law but sin at one point and that makes us a transgressor. The context is law can only save with perfection. See Gal 3:10-12. We can live if we keep the whole law. Since we all sin we are all condemned (both Jew and Gentile). In Romans 4:4, the concept is not work “at all” but, rather, works “perfectly.” If you read with the contextual meaning “works perfectly” instead of “works at all” you will understand the contextual meaning. Some may say “perfectly” is not in the text. Well, neither is “at all!” Working perfectly is in the context since Chapter one. Our sin, the keeping of the law imperfectly, is in the context of Romans.
Yes and the same thing applies to keeping New Testament commands. If you place yourself under having to follow the New Testament commands then you place yourself under having to do then perfectly, including commands that are more difficult to keep than the O.T. Law - such as - Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Trey doesn't make any sense to me. He always seems to be contradicting the Bible. It seems he keeps trying to twist the word to make it fit his beliefs.
It's not the one who plants the seed or the one who waters it because nether have anything, It's God that makes it grow. I cant remember where the bible says that but it was just something that came to mind. lol 1:15:00 I guess I got ahead of you but you found it too. I wasn't at that point in the video when I wrote this until now.
I think when Trey asked Aaron, who had left and came back in the prodigal son parable, Trey was trying to equate the son with an "elected person" because he was already a son. Which doesn't make sense because the parable wouldn't work with someone other than a son. What do you think?
Aaron churches of Christ from Russia Ukraine and Siberia salute you!
Amen, glad to know we have brethren across the globe. God bless you guys
@@michellewilson2995 Wow😊
I'm also a brethren from Ghana, West Africa 🙏
Blessings
Though not from the same room, presumably. Slava Ukraini.
Another three hours of Trey reading the same verses over and over again while putting emphasis on different words each time he reads it. Preach the word Aaron.
Does Trey love Christ and Christ love him?
You must be one of those people who think you know we everything and everyone Trey left to he coc but don't judge him the LORD may be leading him out of the coc to put h somewhere where he wants him
I FEEL SORRY FOR ALL IN THE COC 😢
Trey is 👉 to Jesus of the Bible and the COC believes another Gospel aka another Jesus.
Aaron dies not like the saving Gospel of Jesus Christ 1st CORINTHIANS 15:1-4 , Salvation is a gift of God EPHESIANS 2:8-9.
Jesus said verily verily I say unto you he that believeth on me has everlasting life.
John 14:6.
The spiritually blind are taught to focus on themselves and not Jesus.
The works of the flesh are dead works the Bible talks all about it.
Sad day when they learn the hard way 😢
@@vondaberryman4477He also says he who believes and his baptized shall be saved Mark 16 16
Cornelius was told to fetch for Peter, who would tell him..."WORDS"....whereby he and his household of faith!
The Gospel saves us....Acts 2: 38...!
Peter commanded them to be baptized in water...inorder to have remission of their sins!
Romans 16: 16
Aaron you are a man of great patience 😊
He’s got the patience. He really does a good job handling the word.
Great job Aaron ❤
Trey should try answering a question directly and when receiving an answer to a question, just allow the answer to be given.
God bless you my brothers and we pray that those who left the only church of Christ will open their spiritual eyes before it’s to late
Amen 🙏
“The only church of Christ.” The COC is nothing more than a legalistic cult that puts beautiful saints involved in absolute turmoil. My wife’s father is a COC preacher and I’ve seen the absolute havoc that legalism, works based theology and a non certainty of salvation can have in a family. Trey sees the exact same effects
I believe everything Arron is saying about baptism but i left the Church of Christ when they said the spiritual gifts had ceased.
Amen I pray they won't have to go through great tribulation or worse eternal damnation.
The problem is they don't believe the saving Gospel of Jesus Christ 1st CORINTHIANS 15:1-4 ,Salvation is a gift of God EPHESIANS 2:8-9 ,
Jesus said verily verily I say unto you he that believeth on me has everlasting life.
6:47.
Over 200 scriptures points to eternal security, Jesus preached eternal security 💯.
I feel heart broken so many reject the Gospel.
We are instructed not to complicate the simplicity of Christ.
They believe in another Jesus, period.
I really makes me sick in my stomach when reading these comments.
The pride.
That's what got satan kicked out of heaven for and he deceived a third of the angels.
This is happening in these church cults.
Jesus said come out of her my people.
They profess to be wise but become fools.
They don't believe what Jesus did for them is good enough. It's like how the pope said Jesus failed at the cross.
We are definitely in the last days.
They can't even see that satan is blinding then by keeping the focus on themselves and not Jesus. 😢
@@jrome198679@jrome198679 In the last twenty years I've attended CofE then Methodist, then a charismatic church and last four years a small traditional CoC. Never seen any miracles but heard a lot of babbling.
I have been waiting for this next discussion for awhile!! Always a pleasure ❤ Aaron does such an amazing job defending the faith.
Christ will defend his followers without man's help.
Please PLEASE!!! keep doing these I absolutely love my faith being tested like this!!
This tests your faith?
@@bradleymays2316 well I should have said grows it, I absolutely love talking about Gods word and what it says! And love to listen to different viewpoints so I can grow my understanding of where other denominations are coming from. But after listening to this 3 times or so I’ve seen that Mr.fisher used different doctrines while Aaron stayed to Gods word and it’s context. Listening to these 2 men has made me a better man for my family and for me.
Yes it's convicting
Everyone else understood the point Aaron Was trying to make at the beginning about if the entire New Testament was or wasn’t compiled/completed right?
yes!!!
People must understand that truth cannot be challenged or changed no matter how hard you try! This is a lesson that Trey needs to learn!
You couldn’t be more wrong James
Does Trey love Christ and Christ love him.
He probably is learned the church of Christ just doesn't like that I've had meetings with members of the church of Christ I go to and they can't understand what I'm talking about or people on youtube they don't know that as my non denominational church that preaches truth is spiritual a church of Christ regardless of what the name of the church is I'm talking non denominational church
@@harolddavis1493 stop speaking on the COC. You can’t be a member and talk about the Lords Body.
Impossible.
So you’re saying it doesn’t matter what you’re called by?
Body of Christ is who we are.
That’s who JESUS said we are.
We are called by HIM. Not man.
@@jarvisprice1992it's the coc causing me these things you don't know me and the situation so you stay on it of my comments
Thank you for defending the faith, Aaron. I think these discussions would really benefit from having a third party arbiter to moderate the discussion.
What is the gospel?
@@real8342 How does one become a child of God and please use scripture.
I came to the closure, with an emphasis on the parable of the sower. It is pointless to give water to some seeds, where they fell on stony places and amongst the thorns . But Aaron your gifts are invaluable to the us seeds which fell on good ground. Your earnest study, your faith and the Holy Spirit in you can only be described as a shining light of the Lord’s way. Thoroughly appreciated your efforts and commitment, but alas…some will only hear what is pleasing to their ears.
Unfortunately, water baptism is still not a prerequisite to salvation
@@bradleymays2316 It maybe be wise to consider sanctification (i.e.: the steps to becoming Christ Like) as a continuance of salvation. Christians are Christ followers and we all start with our walk through repentance, and the need for the remission of our sins. Also as a Christian we do what Christ did (he was baptised, albeit under a different dispensation) and the gospels and epistles indicate baptism as a step to our closeness to the teachings. I cannot see how we can take parts out of the teachings, determine that it is not needed. Let’s stay in the word. In the fullness of it and apply it as His church. So much was addressed already between Jews and Christians, why create post scriptures separations between the church with incompleteness of the application of the word? Let’s be Berean, and study and apply all of the word, and rely only on the word and the understanding the Spirit gives us through it, rather than human understandings, reasonings and omissions.
@@bradleymays2316 à❤²
@@bradleymays2316 Baptism doth also now save us; I Peter 3:21. Read Acts 8:35-39 and note what needs to be done when Jesus is preached. Saul/Paul was told "Why tarriest thou? Arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins calling on the name of the Lord. What is the purpose of baptism here? Visit the church of Christ (Romans 16:16) for any questions you may have.
We are only saved after we obey the gospel in the waters of baptism, being submerged, dying of self, and being resurrected as a child of God, and entered into the book of life. And then we are to go into the world, and preach the gospel as we study to show thy self approved. Jesus said, I will build my church. He didn’t say I will build my church so man can create 30,000 denominations of my church. All those denominations have added doctrine by men. Confusing the masses.
vincediesel307 Well said about the denominations. I would also add that some people want to worship the way they want to worship and could care less what God wants. They want to "have it their way." Others just don't study the word of God and let their "so called" pastors tell them what the word of God says without checking to see if what they say is truth; so very sad. And then there are others who know what they need to do but they just want to live like the world. I pray that someday this will all change.
@@lindahutchens8612 , and that’s why their are denominations of God’s church.
@@lindahutchens8612 you worship according to what you THINK the Bible says. You are the same as a denomination but just won't admit it. Y'all worship your church name and not the Christ of the church. Anyone can put a name outside of a building and say that means something. Please give me ONE scripture that says the church had to have a specific name!
Here are 3 church names that I guess y'all would call denominations and put down but that the inspired Biblical writer(s) thought were ok.
1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all CHURCHES OF THE SAINTS .
Romans 16:4 Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the CHURCHES OF THE GENTILES.
Why would Paul refer to the churches of the Gentiles? Pretty DEVISIVE isn't it? How dare he? He wouldn't be allowed in the CoC today.
Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Well done Aaron your explanation makes sence, but trey jumps from one to other Scriptures to confuse the listener confuse,his reaction and his cause speak tells us that ,trey trying to cover and aaron clears by his answer.❤
Excellent job Aaron!!
John 3:16 is as simple as can be….believe (not be baptized)
@@bradleymays2316 So you only use one Scripture?
To hold to salvation!?
Scary.
@@bradleymays2316 Mark 16:16 as simple as can be......believe and baptism. We must take the whole counsel of God, Saul who later became the apostle Paul was told "Why tarriest thou? Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins calling on the name of the Lord."
@@bradleymays2316John 3:16 also says nothing of repentance. So according to your proof texting, repentance is not required from God. Acts 3:19 *repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord* No repentance no blotting out of sins. John 3:16 teaches true belief which is never alone but always obeys Gods commandments, Acts 17:30 *Truly these times of ignorance God overlooked but now commands all men everywhere to repent* True Biblical faith always does/obeys the commandments of God. Faith alone is dead, it is a do nothing belief that never saved anyone.
I was saved at the cross over 2 thousand years ago. Thank you Jesus for your finished work on the cross.
No you weren't. How could you be saved by the cross before you existed?
“For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love”
Ephesians 1:4 NIV
@@faithlexa Ephesians 1:1-6
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
You missed a key word in the SCRIPTURES…
Verse 4
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
How did HE choose us?
“In HIM” the Scripture says.
When? Before the world began.
God NEVER chose YOU or anybody, separate AND apart from CHRIST.
God chose CHRIST from the beginning- where ALL spiritual blessings are.
He didn’t choose YOU, nor ME from the beginning to be saved.
The saving is in JESUS… so if Jesus hadn’t come yet, how could you have been saved from the beginning ? It’s the BLOOD of Christ that takes away the sins of man….
God chose Jesus.
The Scriptures says “ In Him”
We are chosen “IN HIM”.
Those who are “IN HIM” are chosen.
Nobody is CHOSEN outside of Jesus.
But everybody IN Jesus is CHOSEN…
Before the world began, GOD chose JESUS to be the One where all spiritual blessings will be found.
That’s what the Scriptures teaches.
It does not teach that GOD chose anyone separate before the world began. That takes away free will… that God has given us to obey Him.
jaykaufman6339 What must I do (Acts 2:37) and the answer is in Acts 2:38 "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Why wasn't the answer in Acts 2:38 "There is nothing you can do????
THAT'S RIGHT 💯 ETERNAL SECURITY.
Jesus said that he wants us to know we have life.
Do these people in the COC read thoer Bible.
They definitely do not preach the gospel 1st CORINTHIANS 15:1-4 ,They believe in another Jesus.
A graven image in this cult man created a doctrine of demons.😢😢😢
It's so annoying to listen to a discussion when one person (Trey) always interrupts the other!
I praise GOD for you, Aaron, my brother! Continue to stand up and stand firm on GOD'S WORD. 👍🏾👍🏾🙏🏽
I really would like for Trey to persuade me of his doctrine, but I have yet to see any compelling arguments.
Trey's heart has hardened
Water baptism, as a prerequisite to salvation, is terribly wrong….if Trey has hardened his heart to defend against this false doctrine, then so be it
@@bradleymays2316 , if you can’t understand something as simple as following Gods Commandments, then your saying Christ died in vain! I hope you open your heart ❤️ along with everyone else who doesn’t believe! You can’t say you believe when you don’t obey scripture 🥺
@@debbie316 Exactly.
@@bradleymays2316 Mark 16:15-16, Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16 and I Peter 3:21 baptism doth also now save us.
Salvation is a process imo. “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” “ endure to the end”
Philippiens 2:12
Is talking to christians that are already saved. "Work at (your) salvation " there already saved but work at it, in a sense to be Holy, walk the way God wants you to walk.
@@eddyrobichaud5832 Hebrews 5 vs 8-9 Matthew 7 vs 21_24 galatians 5 vs 4 galatians 1 vs 6_9
Man that ends it right there!
@adamallen3695 Ephesians 2:8-10 (KJV) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Salvation is not of works
@eddyrobichaud5832 explain james 2 vs 14-26 faith without works is dead
Thank you for this episode. I was at a youth rally and heard the speaker say this, “When you have faith in God your sins are going to be washed away b/c of his grace.” My eyes were wide open. I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. A youth minister in the church was using Rom 4 just like Trey. This was in the Church of Christ. This teaching is creeping in everywhere. If you grew up baptist or Calvinist you can see it right away, others don’t seem to catch it as easily. I honestly don’t think he even knew what he was saying.
shellbell2167 Each church of Christ is autonomous and not all are teaching the truth and that is why we need to study for ourselves to know when error is being taught.
So what makes Romans 4 unacceptable? What other parts of scripture do you reject? And on what basis? Simply because of your upstart church's 220 years of interpretation?
@@AlanCanon2222who said Romans 4 was unacceptable? “Upstart Church” 😂. That’s a good one. Was John Calvin called an “upsart” in 1536? Was Luther an “upstart” in 1517?
@@shellbell2167No, but neither Calvin or Luther said the things that my Church of Christ elders said, which was "n*gger" every other word. And I don't care if you forgive me or not for distancing myself from that Church of Christ. Racism is ignorant. Biblical justification for why Black people are inferior is still ignorant. If you want to come fight me, I'll give you my address and let you come do what my Church of Christ elder did to me for protesting all the elders talking sh*t about Black people. I even won't resist you strangling me, if you promise that I can get it all on video. I know this about the Churches of Christ. You all want your Black slaves back. You're pissed because you lost the Civil War. Doesn't change the fact that you lost it.
In the words of my favorite engineering disaster podcast, "General Sherman revamped the entire fire code of the city of Atlanta, and he did it without filing a permit." We in the North will f*cking fight you. Louisville went with the North. I was raised in Louisville by Church of Christ parents who were racist, but still were glad that the Union won the War. Now my parents are dead and the only Church of Christ leaders are the ones who long for those old days of slavery. You think you've got a Command, Example, or Necessary Inference as to why Black people should still be your slaves. Know what? I don't f*cking care, and if I ever meet another Church of Christer, I will act as General Sherman did. It's only by the mercy of Lincoln and Grant that you and your clutch of White Supremacists weren't executed to extinction.
Because we are not like you. And by "we", I mean the great majority of human beings. You Church of Christers are so quick to say we're all going to Hell. I know why you say that. Because you want your Black slaves back. You're not going to get them back. YOU LOST.
@@shellbell2167 on the scale of human history, and prehistory, Christianity itself is an upstart. Modern humans emerged something like an eighth to a quarter million years ago. Christianity, in a thousand years, will have gone the way of all flesh.
The problem with faith alone is it doesn’t account for what Jesus tells us to do! We know that He suffered, bleed and died for us. But he also gave us Commandments to follow.
The Old Testament saints were given commands to do and not do and how did that work out. We are still not able to keep ANY COMMANDS perfectly just as the Old Testament saints couldn't keep the Law and if you put yourself under a Law either Old or New Testament to be saved then you MUST keep them all PERFECTLY. Good luck with that.
@@dwbid42 1J OHN 3: 9,"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him and he cannot sin. because he is born of God."
V-24, "And he that keep
eth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the sprit which he hath given us."
Let us study and be more knowledgeable so that we can do the right thing.
@@hermansmikle6685 "LET US STUDY AND BE MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE SO THAT WE CAN DO THE RIGHT THING."
Not sure what you're getting at here but if you're even insinuating that believers (saved people) are sinless then you need to do a lot more studying.
*1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST HIS SON CLEANSETH US FROM ALL SIN.
*1Jn 1:8 IF WE SAY THAT WE HAVE NO SIN, WE DECEIVE OURSELVES, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN US.
*1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And IF ANY MAN SIN, WE HAVE AN ADVOCATE WITH THE FATHER, Jesus Christ the righteous:
*1Jn 5:16 IF ANY MAN SEE HIS BROTHER SIN A SIN WHICH IS NOT UNTO DEATH, HE SHALL ASK, AND HE SHALL GIVE HIM LIFE FOR THEM THAT SIN NOT UNTO DEATH. THERE IS A SIN UNTO DEATH: I DO NOT SAY THAT HE SHALL PRAY FOR IT.
*1Jn 5:17 ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS IS SIN: AND THERE IS A SIN NOT UNTO DEATH.
@larryjohnson2945, I think you do not understand what it means by we are saved by faith alone. It does not mean that it is not necessary for us to obey God if we are saved by faith alone.. But on the other hand it is futile to say that I am obedient to the commandment of God even though I am not saved because I have no faith, because you can never honestly obey the commandments of God if you are not saved yet through faith...
The big problem with Trey's doctrine is that he can never know if he is truly saved. That's just the facts. He may deny that, but the logic in what he teaches is that he can't truly know if he's saved.
Calvinists never know if they are saved, yet all claim to be "the elect." Their expertise is on whether or not you are saved, however.
Amen. For Trey to claim members of the church of Christ are in constant fear of being lost is in reality what reformed theology does. No one can know they are elect because you cannot do anything to receive Gods grace. Only God must cherry pick you. And since their god, has only chosen some to be saved, no one can know if they are the elect. They only believe they are based on some religious experience, emotional experience. They believe they are saved based on some emotion not on what saith the Scriptures.
@@bookchapterverse6830Also it takes arrogance to think I'm elected God loves me buy not you. Truly humble folks would always wonder if they have truly been cherry picked. Calvinism breeds puffed up prideful people.
A person is saved the moment they believe the good news that Jesus Christ died for their sins. 1 Co 15:3-4
@@harvestworkers626 is that what that passage says?
Looking forward to it 👍 appreciate the good content
Aaron clearly won this debate. I admire his patience as well. I believe this endeavor (the various debates between Aaron and Trey) are a good idea as we need more public debates. However I don’t think this format is going to be fruitful. It really needs to be moderated. One HUGE topic they need to cover is the work of the Holy Spirit today. “HOW” he works in todays a Christian age. There are differences in how He operated in the 1st century church vs today.
Another thing, believers in reformed theology read their doctrine into the text but they ignore the context. Trey demonstrated that many times. He hasn’t proven anything from the text yet. He’s been on his heels the whole time dancing around playing word games like Aaron indicated. I hope Trey comes to a knowledge of the truth. But it takes an honest heart and a pure desire for truth and nothing but the truth.
I hope you come to the truth, and realize that water baptism, as a prerequisite to salvation, is just wrong in so many ways….well done Trey, once again, making it so very simple
@@bradleymays2316 Is repenting or confession a prerequisite??
@@bradleymays2316 Jesus Himself said one must believe and be baptized to be saved, Mark 16:15-16 *he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, he that believeth not shall be danmed* Bradleymays, you just disagreed with Jesus!
Good exposition of view points! In the end the listener needs to do their own reading of scripture and ask God for wisdom in prayer when reading His word. I pray the Lord will guide us all to the truth and that we may be humble enough through God's grace, to recognize when we are in error, and not hold on to men's doctrine but rather Christ's doctrine. God bless y'all! 🙏
Amen
I always look forward to these discussions...
Good job Aaron!
Aaron playing chess, Trey is a subpar checkers player. This is really bad. Aaron, you are full of grace in your handling of Trey even through his insults.
I watched the debate until the end and then re-watched several parts of it. Trey Fisher claims that true Christianity says that I’m accepted therefore I believe. Trey starts his final arguments in time stamp 2:48:00. But Trey does not help his FAITH only belief system with his analogies. I would question anyone who uses twisted analogies to support their belief system. I admit that a long video could be made on Trey’s assertions but these statements are meant as a starting point for a more thorough study.
In time stamp 2:50:20 through 2:50:40 Trey says that a father who comforts a scared crying child (who is thinking a monster is under his bed) doesn’t expect the child to do anything (only faith and trust). I would say that the child is expected to do something: stop crying and go to sleep, and yes, over time develop even more trust in his father.
In time stamp 2:51:15 through 2:51:28, Trey goes to John 3:15 which refers to Numbers 21:8-9 (healing from fiery serpent bites). Trey makes the statement that those who were bitten would be healed when they saw the brazen serpent. The person did not even have to run to it. Considering the size of the encampment, a person might have to travel a great distance (potentially among more snakes) so that he could look on the image. Is going to the serpent and looking at it a work? And further, was the snake-bitten person healed when he had faith that looking at the brass serpent would heal or did he actually have to go and look at it? What if he would not even look up at the image even though it was nearby?
In time stamp 2:52:14, Trey goes to 1 Corinthians 3:6-7 and tries to answer the ‘seed of belief’ question from Aaron. The text that Trey quoted says that God gave the increase (it’s God’s work). All that is true but if Trey had read verse 9, everything would have become clear. [1 Corinthians 3:9 For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, you are God's building.] Yes, God gives the increase, but we must do our part.
In time stamp 2:54:09 through 2:54:28, Trey talks about Abraham being justified before circumcision and then uses Romans 4: 9-11 and 16-18 as proof. If circumcision is only a ceremony/ritual why was God so angry with Moses that He sought to kill him for not circumcising his own son? (Exodus 4:24-26) Also, look at Romans 4:12 “and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but also walked in the steps of the faith which our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised.” Abraham walked in the steps of faith by obeying God in Genesis 12 when God told him to leave his country and his family and by offering sacrifices to God.
In time stamp 2:55:40 through 2:56:45 Trey equates baptism to a wedding ceremony and then makes the assertion that the couple is married when they buy the marriage license and that the actual marriage ceremony is just for show. I did some research for the state of TN and here is what I found: A marriage license is a document issued by the county clerk that allows a couple to get married. Then the marriage must take place within 30 days after getting that legal document. Then a marriage certificate (again certain requirements must be met) is issued that shows the couple is legally married. So, a marriage license is obtained prior to the wedding ceremony, while a marriage certificate is issued following the ceremony. Louisiana, where Trey is from, is even more strict: Not only is the couple not married when they get the license, but they must wait 24 hours after getting the license before the ceremony can even take place, unless they get special permission. Thus, his analogy of being married when a couple gets a marriage license, then having a wedding ceremony, to being saved first, then later having the ceremony of baptism falls flat.
Finally, let’s go to the Bible for the true definition of faith (Hebrews 11:1 NKJV) “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” and how to get faith (Romans 10:17 NKJV) “So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
Trey uses BDAG to show that faith means trust and it does along with the system of faith. Now, let’s go back to the ‘BY FAITH’ statements in Hebrews 11:3 - 31. Each example of the faithful follows the pattern TRUSTACTIONRECEIVED… But don’t reason like Trey who says the ‘receiving’ comes at the moment you have ‘trust’ and you then act because you have already received it.
Why do Calvinists evangelize? What is the point?
That’s exactly one of the questions I’ve always had for Calvinists
Why bother proclaiming the gospel are teaching people disciple ship anything like that it’s pointless if you believe as a Calvinist, which I don’t
Great job Aaron may God continue to bless you and strengthen you
👍Aaron
2:49:00 Trey must have forgotten what he said in an earlier discussion with Aaron. Ananias didn't know Paul was already saved and he was trying to fulfill the great commission when he told Paul to arise and be baptized. Yet apparently in reality I guess he did know Paul was saved because he called him brother. Come on Trey, you are terribly inconsistent.
Man, I have tried pointing that out as well. Trey flip flops several times throughout these discussions.
Member of the church of Christ since 1985, and I’ve noticed lots false brethren who just come and go. Are the ones who talk about our Lord Jesus Christ and his doctrine. And try to put down his followers .
Big Trey Fisher error at 1:00:35. He references 1 John 5 and takes it out of context to argue belief alone (aka faith alone) saves a person. "Everyone who believes Jesus is the Christ has been born of God..." Seems like a slam dunk, right? But it's not. Read the rest of the passage and don't take it out of context to see what BELIEF entails.
Verse 2: "...and everyone who LOVES the One who gives new birth" "Who gives" means something has yet to be given...so why is "loving" preceding something given (we also see love preceding new birth in 4:7, 4 :20)? What does this love entail? Verse 3: "that we keep [God's] commandments."
In the very passage Trey uses to prooftext his false doctrine, there is ample proof that loving and doing commandments precede new birth.
If one reads further, the other things that precede the new birth are "receiving, witness" v. 9, and "having," v. 12.
All of these are summarized in 1 John 3:23-24 and then discussed individually. Belief and commandments are inextricably linked and should not be separated, lest heresy result as Trey has done.
This means that not only is Trey's timeline of birth wrong, but his definition (or "christianese") of belief is also in error.
1:12:38 it was at this moment, he confirmed he had no standing. The level of patience Exhibited, is admirable.
Running away every time…..thank you for your courage and wisdom brother.
Well done, Aaron. Trey seems to be putting more effort into being smug instead of honestly examining the Word. I pray his eyes are opened and his heart is softened.
I pray your eyes are opened to the truth, salvation requires no work of your own, including water baptism….did the thief on the cross get a water baptism?
@@bradleymays2316 Show proof he didn’t get baptized….
Don’t imply Scripture that’s not Scripture…
You don’t know if he did or didn’t.
I love when people bring up the thief…
Nobody knows IF he was baptized with the baptism of John.
Therefore.
Try again.
Until he “figured it out” is he disfellowshipped and cast to the lake of fire by the fellow “saints?”
@@jarvisprice1992show proof that a church has to have a specific name like y'all claim. Just on verse will do.
Here are 3 church names that I guess y'all would call denominations and put down but that the inspired Biblical writer(s) thought were ok.
1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all CHURCHES OF THE SAINTS .
Romans 16:4 Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the CHURCHES OF THE GENTILES.
Why would Paul refer to the churches of the Gentiles? Pretty DEVISIVE isn't it? How dare he? He wouldn't be allowed in the CoC today.
Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
@@dwbid42 They are Scriptural. But the order of worship must follow.
There are many names for the body. In Scripture. Choose one, and stick to the Scriptures
I can’t even fathom the thinking of Trey! Faith alone isn’t Christianity! That’s not scripture, that’s false doctrine!
Baptism is faith , and not a work, at least not ours, but God's working in us.
It is so painful to listen to Trey talk about the word of God.
He and many like him teach from verses that do not stand alone!
The Bible is crystal clear that we must be baptized to be saved , staying faithful unto death, of course.
That is one of the reasons why many are going to hear depart from me you workers of lawlessness in the book of Matthew if you do not .
🙏🏼
The bible is not the word of God! Jesus is the WORD of God.
So Trey is now saying that the context should tell you what kind of believe the passage is talking about. He also says ‘one can believe that Jesus is the Christ’ but that will not be enough to be saved.
But he will later tell Aaron that whenever the Bible says ‘believe’ the church of Christ should forget about context and accept it as believe only.
VERY INCONSISTENT.
This corrupt false teaching that Trey is caught up in…..is truly heartbreaking …..lies and deceit are Satans best tricks here……May the Lord continue to richly bless Aaron to thoroughly and patiently wipe up the floor with this heresy ….I pray for Treys mislead soul…..it truly is pitiful 🙏🏽
How do I know that I’ve been regenerated according to Calvinists?
You just do, according to them.
The answer is, depending on who you ask, either you don't, or you are engaged in a lifetime of faithful works. The former is how many of our loved ones end up convinced they are saved but they can live sinful lives. The later leads to a chicken and the egg problem for which I only found a solution in the teachings of the Church of Christ: A Calvinist is only elect if he does good works, election is necessary for salvation, but good works don't influence God to that person's salvation. The Biblical answer is simple: Biblical faith requires obedience and is a prerequisite for salvation.
@Harold Zwingley I was raised in a Calvinist denomination. According to the doctrines of that group, God gave the elect a new heart and that new heart produces righteous works as evidence. That may not fit the doctrines of whatever group you are affiliated with, but I do have firsthand understanding of at least a flavor of Calvinist doctrine. I am not speaking out of ignorance; I'm writing things I heard with my own ears from ordained ministers from the pulpit and in classes.
@@HaroldZwingley Tell us what we must do to be saved.
I think God knows better than we do about when.... and He is outside of time. I know when I was saved: when I surrendered to Christ.
We are saved if we truly believe the gospel of salvation and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Faith comes before work and before obedience...
1:05:12 Trey evades a "belief saves" question through bait and switch. Trey substitutes "intellectual knowledge" into the Bible in place of "belief." He does this several times.
Notice these holes in his reasoning.
He also substitutes "belief" for "faith." Also note that he keeps saying "nothing you can do" and "no works" yet keeps saying to believe, trust, have confidence, demonstrate, know, and more - all verbs, all works, all ergon, all things a person does!
I would say not to have a debate with Trey anymore. He won't let you talk.
The Bible clearly tells us we are dead spiritually and God must awaken us to our NEED of the FINISHED and completed work of the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation
I think Aaron allows Trey to have his way too many times. Being patient but Aaron should not allow him switch issues and ran away from passages like that
Every time Aaron is explaining the truth, and every time Aaron catches trade in a false hood trade mumbles out something changes, the subject and run over to another scripture. Hey, let’s go here he never stays right there where they are and explains the truth. He never answers the question. Thank you Aaron for being so patientand begrudgingly and hard I’m learning but oh my God it’s so hard to listen to this and listen to. You’re such a patient guy.
I really appreciate you Arron
19:42 Trey Fisher has a slippery slope problem here regarding what he says about when certain letters were being written and inferring what information people may have had. Even though the first Corinthian letter was written in "about" whenever you want to put the date, they already had the gospel before the letter (1 Corinthians 1:4-7, 2:1-5, 3:1-9). The gospel had been preached (past tense) in 15:1. The testimony of Christ had already been confirmed in Corinth (1:6).
In fact, Paul, Apollos, and others were there baptizing long ago and before any of the dates Trey references (1 Corinthians 1:12-17).
The Corinthians had already been called in 1:26.
They were already meeting as a church in 1 Corinthians 14 and taking the Lord's Supper in chapter 11. They were exercising gifts from the Holy Spirit in 12-14. They are "God's building," 3:9, and a "temple of God," 3:16, a temple for the Holy Spirit," 6:19.
Here's the big defeater of Trey Fisher's argument. The Corinthian message was not new revelation. It was to and in accord "with all who in every place call upon the name of our Lord...), 1 Cor. 1:2. But, most importantly, the teachings of 1 Corinthians existed in "all churches," 7:17, 11:16, 14:33.
1 Corinthians contained nothing new for them and, according to the letter, was a reminder of what they and "all the churches" already knew. He doesn't stop for a second to think that the very letter he references to make his argument-in-the-moment defeats his overall point.
I believe this guys likes to talk. The passages Aaron gave r clear as a bell an he never gave an answer. He continually interrupts.
I am appaled at Trey's deceptive manipulations. At 1:20 (ish) in reference to BDAG with respect to "baptism" he says he is concerned with context, but then highlights the first portion of the definition ONLY - thus failing to grasp the context. The whole of the definition says baptism is (yes) a "ceremony" ... but then goes on to say that it is "for the purpose of ... establishing a relationship with God." This man is deceptive and decieved.
Trey just spent his time showing clips of Aaron accepting the Greek lexicon and then just read a scripture and didn't actually say anything. SMH
Pearls before swine.
I’m thankful for these recorded discussions of foundational doctrine of salvation, and highlights of the false teachings of Calvinism. A true believer of Calvinism does not need the Bible, church, or even to evangelize (they must not get that core truth or why would they bother trying to evangelize or teach others)…because there is literally nothing you can do or say to be saved or lost…it’s all done for you according to their teaching. Aaron, you have a wonderful knowledge of God’s word and comprehension of how scripture logically supports itself. Unfortunately, Trey does what every false doctrine believer I’ve studied with does, which is not answer questions directly but plays word judo, insert doctrinal (not scriptural) context, deflect, distract, and deny the plain reading of scripture. Trey adds to his false doctrine many false characteristics/beliefs that the “Church of Christ” believe… I question whether he ever spent time in a faithful congregation. I’ve spent more time among Christ’s church than Trey is years old, and I’ve never heard what he attributes to Church of Christ (particularly in the Cultish video). Glory to God for His word being defended and taught by Aaron and the faithful GBN cast! 🙏
1:26 - If baptism is just a ceremony that doesn’t save an individual then marriage is a ceremony that doesn’t unite a couple. Baptism is where one enters into a covenant with God. Trey frustrates me and I am so glad that Aaron is patient with him. Trey tries so hard to twist things. I wish he would put the same effort into just seeing what the scriptures plainly teach. 🙏
A marriage ceremony is something our laws require. If you want to put yourself under the New Testament commands or law then be sure and keep them all perfectly as that's what a Holy God requires. Good luck with that.
Grew up Roman Catholic till like 12, then was Non Denominational.
I went and did rehabilitation in South Carolina they were Pentacostal but I was there for 3 months... Best time of my life Pastor Wayne Teen Challenge South Carolina we would travel every Sunday all over SC me and my friend Andrew would do "The Prodigal Son" skit then we would give our testimonies......but that was the first time I ever actually read the Bible Hosea 10:12 "plant the good seed of righteousness, and you shall harvest a crop of love, plow up the hard ground of your hearts for now is the time to seek the Lord that he may come and shower righteousness upon you"
I was given 2 scriptures to memorize a week James 1:25 was the first one given to me by my teacher l "but he who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty,and persevers, being no hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing" was my first ever really memorized..
But James 1:23-24 "For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks intently at his natural face in a mirror". For he looks at himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like"
James was first Letter I read.... Faith without works is dead... God blessed me down there and you could feel his presence a lot more then up here in PA.. idk man it's all about The Book u don't preach religion you preach The Word...
SOUTH CAROLINA was truly amazing I was 22 years old (2016) I FIND MYSELF LOOKING BACK TO THOSE DAYS...😢 I FELL BACK OFF BUT I DID BECOME SAVED THERE..... By 3rd month I had 60+scriptures memorized, but I got baptized again down there professing my love and belief that God sent his Son Jesus Christ to die for our sins
Confess with your mouth and believe in your heart ❤️... I don't think it's that "deep" each person has their own relationship/understanding of God and the Bible... We all interpret differently. Discerning the word is what can be challenging. But doing those things with other friends, scholar's, def elders (1 Peter 5:5), church, ect.
Good video tho kudos to both of ya
Trey is so blinded by his doctrine he doesn't even know what the word "context" means.
even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
Ephesians 2:5 NKJV
Did you know the Ephesians were baptized in Ephesians 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of Jesus.
@@lindahutchens8612did you know a lot is saved people (believers) were baptized in the N.T.? Y'all do this all the time"he was baptized", "they were baptized" - that means nothing except that people were being baptized. The Jews baptized proselytes, John the Baptist baptized disciples as did Jesus' disciples. The Jews did it to show that those baptized were followers of the Jewish religion, John the Baptist did it to show they had repented and were his followers and Jesus'disciples did it to show that those baptized were followers of Jesus. There was no saving efficacy for salvation in any of those baptisms just as baptism doesn't save anyone today. There is no indication in all of the N.T. that water Baptism changed on Pentecost. Pentecost represented not a change in water baptism but the coming of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. That was the ONLY reason that all of his disciples were told to tarry in Jerusalem.
@@dwbid42 ”Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.“
Acts 2:37-38 NKJV.
To receive remission of sins aka saved
@@Cobluntzz You're typical CoC I give a scripture that you completely ignore and jump to another of your pet verses that doesn't hold WATER (pardon the pun) either.
[ “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.“ Acts 2:37-38 NKJV. To receive remission of sins aka saved]
Verse 38 hinges on the meaning of the Greek word "eis" that is translated "for" in that verse. The problem with "for" meaning IN ORDER TO RECEIVE OR OBTAIN is the following verse and a few others!
Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water UNTO repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
The word translated "unto" in Mat 3:11 is the same Greek word "eis"
So unless you think (I know it's tough for a CoC member) that John baptized so that people could receive or obtain repentance (and it doesn't) then it probably doesn't mean that in Acts 2:38 either!
In fact knowing you're probably CoC I'll show you that it CAN NOT mean that in Mat 3:11 because John wouldn't baptize anyone unless he thought that they had brought forth fruit worthy of repentance (showed signs they had repented.
Mat 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Mat 3:8 BRING FORTH THEREFORE FRUITS MEET FOR REPENTANCE
Luk 3:7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Luk 3:8 BRING FORTH THEREFORE FRUITS WORTHY OF REPENTANCE, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
There's also the HOPE of salvation the Bible talks about. We haven't been given the crown of life YET.
Casts 8:12
But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized
Satan can confuse you by jumping from one to another,so what is written is to eraze baptism and stay to faith, let the Lord justify
I was part
Of icoc and some of their practices are based on quotas - when you are in a spiritual warfare and fight against dark forces of evil - it is not easy or fun and even more difficult when u are pressured to “perform” - however I would prefer to find an alternative- a church where I can worship and praise God without being force to meet a quotas or - please provide alternative solutions
If two 17 year olds, one a Baptist and the other a Campbellite/CoC goer, get baptized at the same time as soon as possible after recognizing they are sinners in need of a Savior, and then subsequently they hear and believe in the death, burial , and resurrection of the Lord Jesus, do both of them come out of the water saved, or just one of them? If your answer is only one of them, which one and why? I hope you answer correctly.
*Grace and peace in Christ.
✝️📖🙏🏼😇
First the Church of Christ was not started by Campbell. It was started by Jesus Christ. Second we don’t “get baptized”. We obey the gospel. The gospel teaches we must hear believe repent confess and be baptized for remission of sins.
The baptist believes that your saved before baptism and your just showing your faith by baptism then no you are not saved.
What is the Bible website y’all use?? Also great job defending the faith Mr. Aaron!
They need to debate with a moderator. Trey won't shut up!!!!
When he use Ezekiel to support John 3 1_7 a teacher of Israel would also know, about Noah's ark gen. 6 1 Peter 3 vs 21 Naman 2 kings 5 the water cured him.
So much religion 😢. We need the Wonderful FINISHED work of our Lord Jesus Christ for salvation -- complete
Whenever Trey cannot answer an objection, he distracts just like a politician.
trey itcher.....for the way he teaches what their itching ears want to hear......
Technical request to improve the audio. The audio was cutting in and out.
Jesus said that a man must be born again of the water and the Spirit, or they cannot enter the Kingdom of God John 3:5. Both appear to be equally important. I have seen people go down in the water and come up no different than before they went down. Unless one believes the Word of the gospel and feels Godly sorrow for their sin, and humbles themself before God, the water alone will do them no good. I've also seen people who although they believe in Jesus and what was done at the cross for them and humble themselves but yet they refuse to obey God's Word that says they need to be baptized. Belief without obedience is not real faith. See Hebrews 5:9 and James 2:19-26
The paralyzed man showed his faith by agreeing to go see about Jesus.
faith is of God each person has a measure of faith either we act on said faith or not whether we understand the gospel or not is on God by hearing through faith we respond by believing which is an act of faith
Trey saying work means any deed doesnt mean works in Romans are talking about any deeds you can do or think of.
The context is works of moses or if we replace 'works' with the definition of the word it would be talking about: any deeds you can do of Moses or any deeds of the law. The context, which is works of the law of Moses, is important.
When two words that mean two different things, yet produce the same result, proves a figure is being used. Interpretation demands one understand this. Bullinger states in his work on figures, “Applied to words, a figure denotes some form which a word or sentence takes, different from its ordinary and natural form.” Trey insists in the definition yet denies a synecdoche is being used. That is the only way to harmonize two words meaning different things ending to the same outcome. Synecdoche of the part is so obvious.
Gospel it is Good news with plan of salvation in baptism for remission of sins
@Norman Fisk We practice not John baptism but baptism of Great commission for remissions of sins Act2:38 Mt28:19
@@Russkiy1976 A person is born again by receiving the Holy Spirit. This comes before water baptism.
@Norman Fisk They are two different baptisms. Jesus'sacrifice on the cross is what paid for our sins.
@@bobbyadkins6983 No Holy Spirit baptism not saves any one it was on Saul and on judges of Israel it fulfillment Joels prophesy. Only baptism for remission of your sins saves you servant of Satan.
@Norman Fisk Read Act 2:38 and 1Peter3:21 baptism saves us but not you.
Trey only seems to control this these conversations because he's an introvert and has a position of "knowledge" in his mindset.. Likewise, I feel Aaron appears to be chasing this, but he is fired up and high energy, so it is remarkable how patient he is because I'd have been shaking Trey by the shoulders long ago.
Aaron is taking all kinds of passive assault from Trey.. very well handled
And yet you would still be completely wrong
it happens when you believe. by not believing you are already breaking the commands and nobody has kept the law we all have broken it so trying to keep the commands apart from Christ is impossible.
Neither before belief nor when we obey God’s commandments. We are saved the moment we BELIEVE the gospel of grace as seen in 1 Co 15:3-4.
The Bible never says how long the miraculous gifts would last The Ante-Nicene fathers recorded the continuation of the gifts even as far as Augustine.
As for gifts, they will cease when that which is perfect comes” (paraphrasing) With context, we can determine it’s speaking of the entire text or the Bible…we now have the Bible, which means miracles gifts like healing and speaking in tongues have now ceased.
@@bricemilleson
Nothing in the context suggests that the "PERFECT" is the complete NT. For one, Paul did not say anything specifically about a BOOK or a new set of SCRIPTURES.
Certainly Paul made no about the creation of a collection NT in any of his other writings.
The word PERFECT is a NEUTER adjective a PERFECT (thing). The noun it describes is not defined. Don't you think that if it were Paul's intention to tell them that the gifts they were experiencing were going to pass away and replaced by a book that he would have at least mentioned that book?
However the central idea (the word BOOK or Biblios does not appear in the passage. If he MEANT to say perfect book why did he not say perfect BOOK rather than just perfect thing?
(1 Corinthians 13:10)
Also the Ante-Nicene fathers, the generations of Christians who followed the Apostles wrote that the charismatic gifts continued long after the death of the Apostles
True saving faith = personal belief in the True Jesus of Scripture, repentance, confession, and baptism.
peace my brother Aaron....do a show on what they really want.....10%......follow the money....
Trey is so proud of grade school level Aaron quote slides. It is hilarious and does him no favors.
John 3:5 Trey tries to argue how would Nicodemus know about bein born again per Jesus words to him? Then he proceeds to argue about the contrast to that and the thief on the cross and not telling him but he did to Nicodemus.
Simple answer Trey. When you went and pointed to EZE and JER you totally ignored that all of that was FUTURE. Nicodemus should have known the promise of the future which was not yet realized. That means it would have been made more clear the fulness of how. The Thief would still not have been under this because there was NO RESURRECTION! He was given a promise by the TESTATOR BEFORE HE DIED. That's all he needed. That has nothing to do with the reality of Christ in you which was the new reality of the covenant.
Aaron, you did a great job brother and I commend the restrain from Trey’s tiring “gotcha” moments. If you’re a Calvinist, notice that Trey’s supposed “Baptism is a ceremony or sacrament” is his best attempt to seem victorious, not realizing that the Bible defines baptism as being “for the remission of sins.” (Acts 2:38)
Meaning, Bible definitions overrule uninspired men who wrote Greek lexicons. That’s a fact.
As for my Calvinist friends or any other group, please, continue watching all these debates and make a decision based upon what the Bible actually says in its totality.
Reminds me of Doug Wilson.
Doug Wilson will say a living faith saves you. The word Living or the word Baptism are words added to faith.
In Romans four, notice Trey always adds to the term work, or works plural, the thought “at all.” If anyone works at all. The context is not talking about “at all” because Paul just sent several chapters showing we all have sinned and fall short. We may even keep the entire law but sin at one point and that makes us a transgressor. The context is law can only save with perfection. See Gal 3:10-12. We can live if we keep the whole law. Since we all sin we are all condemned (both Jew and Gentile). In Romans 4:4, the concept is not work “at all” but, rather, works “perfectly.” If you read with the contextual meaning “works perfectly” instead of “works at all” you will understand the contextual meaning. Some may say “perfectly” is not in the text. Well, neither is “at all!” Working perfectly is in the context since Chapter one. Our sin, the keeping of the law imperfectly, is in the context of Romans.
Yes and the same thing applies to keeping New Testament commands. If you place yourself under having to follow the New Testament commands then you place yourself under having to do then perfectly, including commands that are more difficult to keep than the O.T. Law - such as - Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Trey is at the point where if Christ came and told him he’s wrong on his teachings, Trey would say no you’re wrong.
You couldn’t be more wrong
Most cult members make statements like this, while not even realizing that they are, in fact, the ones deceived.
Trey doesn't make any sense to me. He always seems to be contradicting the Bible. It seems he keeps trying to twist the word to make it fit his beliefs.
is salvation an event, or a process....that began, in the past, continues in the present, and hopefully finishes in the future...
It's not the one who plants the seed or the one who waters it because nether have anything, It's God that makes it grow. I cant remember where the bible says that but it was just something that came to mind. lol 1:15:00 I guess I got ahead of you but you found it too. I wasn't at that point in the video when I wrote this until now.
I've watched this a dozen times and the "buttress of truth" comment cracks me up every single time. 😂
I think when Trey asked Aaron, who had left and came back in the prodigal son parable, Trey was trying to equate the son with an "elected person" because he was already a son. Which doesn't make sense because the parable wouldn't work with someone other than a son. What do you think?
Only Trey knows what he was thinking. He tries to act as if he made a good point, but then moves on without explaining the point.
One is save if one truly love God and love his neighbours/everyone!