Another thing she actually did do and there's almost never any mention of is getting Ella Fitzgerald into white segregated night clubs by telling the owner she would sit front row every show, essentially getting the club so much business that it had no choice but to desegregate.
Is that even true? Sounds a little too similar to Frank Sinatra making sure Sammy Davis Jr. didn’t have to use the “colored” entrances or not get to sit in a “whites only” establishment.
@@joshuajames6481 no it is not. I read Marilyn Monroe: The Private Life of a Public Icon by Charles Casillo; which is the definitive biography of Marilyn Monroe and it never mentions Ella Fitzgerald beyond the fact that she called Marilyn “ahead of her time.”
I've always found it ironic and sad that she's mostly as misunderstood in death as she was in life. Those fake Marilyn quotes are the worst. Also ironic that her image is still taken advantage of for $$ to such an extent
I personally get quite infuriated at the "gangsta queen" photoshops of Marilyn. You know, where shes got a bunch of cash or drugs in hand/surrounding her, possibly a bandana on her face, and of course a full sleeve of incredibly tacky cliche tattoos on each arm & hand. It's a favorite image of petty street dealers everywhere.
You touched upon this briefly when you talked about Lana Del Rey, but what I find really interesting is the fact that, we don't love Marilyn's glamour in spite of her sad life... Her sad life is a part of the glamour. Somehow, the idea of being beautiful and seductive and perfect in public, but living in a shallow, lonely world in private, really strikes a cord with us. We even kind of aspire to it, fantasizing about that kind of life, even if we wouldn't really want to live it. And I wonder-- is it because of Marilyn and those like her that we make the association? Or is it something more instinctual? It's probably a bit of both. As for why that kind of thing would be appealing even without the association, well, we do love tragic figures. And I'd say it has to do with the intensity of emotion involved. I doubt Romeo and Juliette would be considered such a classic love story if they didn't both die at the end. Also, we like complexity. Someone who's confident and sexy on the outside, but insecure and immature on the inside, I think we tend to find that more interesting than if that person were exactly like their image. I guess I've been thinking about this for a while. I like Marina and the Diamonds, and she did an album as this character she created, Electra Heart. Electra Heart is definitely based on Marilyn; in fact, Marina/Electra kinda impersonates her in the video for "Prima Donna Girl." That's the song that best represents this kind of thing, I think. Marina says that for her, Electra represents everything wrong with American ideals, and the worse side of herself. But I wouldn't call it strictly a critique, either, because, yeah, she definitely makes it seem appealing at the same time. I get the impression that she really enjoys playing that role. I'm not sure whether that's a good thing or a bad thing. On the one hand, it's kind of great when a song or a book or a movie implicates the audience, because it makes us see things about ourselves that we'd rather ignore. On the other, it can be seen as indulging in and encouraging unhealthy ideals under the pretext of criticism. Eh, I enjoy it either way.
I know that I am late, but I've just got to say that I don't consider Romeo and Juliet to be a classic love story. It is a satirical comedy, and a pretty funny one at that. And a bit of a commentary on the folly of emotions, and letting them run away from you/dominate your senses.
It's probably because we on a primal level just think if life is gonna be sh** and we're gonna be depressed anyways might as well have a glamorous life and have nice things and have it easy while doing so and at least be remembered.
This really resonates with me. I've been thinking about it for a few years now and how it's applied to everyday life as well but i was never really able to put it into words so big thanks for that^^
If we accept that sadness and death comes even to the most wealthy and famous of us it kind of makes it easier to swallow that we don't have fame and wealth ourselves. A perfect celebrity with no flaw whatsoever is an inhuman icon, BUT when we notice a crack in the facade we realize there is in fact a person behind it all. Just meat and bone and brains just like us. And if they're miserable despite (or even better, BECAUSE of) having the things we dream of having then maybe, just maybe, not having those things is actually ok.
I dunno, don't you think it's a bit weird that a faceless corporation you've never met could gain exclusive rights to distribution of your image, years after your death? That after other circumstances would've made it so that you'd no longer be thought of as a person, a company could turn you into not even a historical figure or "icon", but a *brand*?
@Brayden Szabo Yes she did. She suffered greatly from her father leaving her at her young age. She suffered from a nicotine addiction and went through several miscarriages and loveless marriages. She was a prominent antifascist and children's rights activist. But when people see her they don't remember her struggles. They just see her as the pretty actress who wore a black dress at one point.
If anyone is interested in a documentary that I really like and made me like Marilyn, too, check out "Love, Marilyn". It looks like letters she and others around her wrote and gives a really cool peak at who Marilyn really was, showing that a lot of what people have seen as her image was actually a construction partially by her and by the studio itself, and that that was something she actually wasn't all that happy with. This was the documentary that taught me about the story of Marilyn and, I have to say, I actually really like the real Marilyn far more than I like the image of her and I think she would have been very, very happy to have heard that.
I've often been fascinated with the mythical status of certain celebrities. In mythology, there's often a love-and-beauty deity, counter-balanced by a darker counterpart to herself. In modern pop culture, this seems to be personified in the forms of Marilyn Monroe and Bettie Page. They fit into a sort of Joseph-Campbell-esque modern mythology.
It's interesting that the breathy voice pops up so often in these biopics. That wasn't the voice she used in her day to day life, it was a tool she used to create the character archetype she is known for! But it's part of the mythology, and it's more easily recognized than her real voice, so in it goes. Sort of apt when we're talking about the human being vs the Hollywood symbol I spose.
This talk about how Marilyn is more of a symbol (mis)constructed from a real person, having unverifiable stories created about her, and misquoting her; I can't help but think that this is how religions get their scriptures. Maybe in a few hundred years, Marilyn Monroe will become more than just a pop icon similar to Elvis in Fallout: New Vegas.
My mom is a die-hard Marilyn Truther, and will insist that she was murdered as a cover-up for the Kennedys. Then again, my mom was 12 when she died, so that explains some things.
My uncle knew Marilyn, briefly, and he said people hugely, hugely underestimated her. She didn’t talk like her characters did, she didn’t wear a tonne of make up, and she was so damn smart. Her truths are ethereal and elusive, and I’d recommend people look at the book Marilyn Among Friends, by Norman Rosten and Sam Shaw. It’s revealing in how essentially normal a girl she’s revealed as, and the photos are exquisite. Just Norma Jean being herself, and mostly happy. Which breaks my heart. No one will ever replace or replicate her, there was a quality about her no one can emulate, no amount of makeup, hair, voice or clothes can reproduce it.
"I'm so sick. Of clueless idiots. Misinterpreting or quote mining my speeches & writings. On Facebook & Twitter especially during the EU Referendum." :) Sir Winston Churchill
I would love to see you talk about the fact Joker and Harley Quinn's relationship is mis-interpreted as a 'good romance' and how wrong couples are who say they want to be like them , or better yet - how wrong it is that there's children's Harley Quinn costumes and Toys now?!
Maria Beecham And the fact that people literally name their daughters Harley Quinn. Although in that case, it was back when she was only in the 90s cartoon before the abuse allegory was explicit.
Not until after Suicide Squad comes out cause that Joker is really the Joker of now with the tattooed and stuff and to compare to Cesear Romero who very much embodies what the 60s were like
I work in a department store that sells clothes that is just called Marilyn Monroe. Some of it has her image and the rest is just flashy, loud color, pretty ugly, dresses, skirts and shirts. And honestly I'm not really sure the real Marilyn would have worn, basically any of it.
Marilyn, like many popular stars, was at her best when people treated her like a regular person. My dad was called to do the sound prep for an interview with director Billy Wilder during filming of “The Seven Year Itch.” He was setting things up when a young woman in extreme makeup came over and asked what he was up to. They chatted easily for 10 minutes on a range of subjects-until they heard, “We’re ready for you, Miss Monroe.” “Oh, well, it was nice talking to you! Bye!” Marilyn had been made up for that staircase dream sequence and my dad hadn’t recognized her-and I think she was delighted to be treated like any other person, and not “Miss Monroe” for a change.
I read a screenplay about a company that cloned dead celebrities, and one of them was a Marilyn clone. It was a stupid script, but it had its moments, namely when the clone goes to a statue of Marilyn and has a whole soliloquy about what it means to live up to such a legacy and how she is really a copy of an icon, not a person. Eerily similar to what happens in real life.
So Lindsay, have you ever seen Don't Bother To Knock? It's my favorite Marilyn Monroe movie. In it she plays Nell, a young woman recently released from a mental hospital after a suicide attempt. She's hired as a babysitter for a couple staying at a hotel where her uncle works. You get to see her downward spiral through the course of one night. It's based on the short novel (about 126 pages) Mischief by Charlotte Armstrong and is, in my opinion, one of the few times the movie is better than the book.
I'll second that recommendation. It's currently streaming on Netflix if you live in the US, as are a number of Marilyn Monroe movies, both her hits and her lesser known work. River of No Return with Robert Mitchum is also fun and shows off her range a bit more than her later work tended to.
Yah, that was interesting. Elvis's "persona" is copyrighted, too, prolly by this same company. It makes me wonder how that sort of business deal went down, and how they manage it. To what degree does an actor have to portray the caricature of the person before it breeches copyright?
Her image is owned by her estate although they can't completely stop the public from using it. Controlling interest in Elvis' estate was sold by Lisa Marie.
Marilyn Monroe was not a person,merely an image. One reason that the image has remained strong was her death before she could grow old. Everyone knows Marilyn Monroe but no one knew Norma Jean Baker.
Surprised you didn't touch on Norma Jean & Marilyn, a TV movie with Ashley Judd and Mira Sorvino. It was fictionalized (like pretty much every other Marilyn biopic), and the two sides of Marilyn Monroe (Marilyn/Norma Jean) were played by two different actresses. I remember it kind of implied a split personality thing, which may or may not have been kind of tasteless? Marilyn a la Sybil? I remember liking it, but the last time I saw it was 16 years ago, so who knows if it holds up or not. At least it was higher budget than most of the stuff about Marilyn, boy howdy.
out of all the loose cannon episodes so far, I think this one was the most interesting and made me think the most. This has made me think about a variety of celebrities from the likes of Lindsay Lohan to Picasso and how much of their identities were comprised of the influences of their reputation and their works and how much was the same sources of influences that we all go through. Thanks for being super rad Lindsay and making me contemplate the significance of a celebrities image as well as how much scratchier Starscream's voice can get with each new Transformers show
I've always been quite fascinated by her as a person. I'm also glad that I now know that "quote" of hers is fake. Also, can I just say that I love your new haircut?
I love your loose canon episodes. I can't believe I missed this one (I'm glad you briefly brought up Smash. You always manage to briefly bring up the one bit of media I am very knowledgeable and usually fond of and brush it off because it's not actually influential - like Once Upon a Time and Dead Like Me)
The idea a company can basically own someone's corpse and image just makes my stomach churn and my blood boil. This is the one of kind of thing that have turned people away from the idea of capitalism,
I actually just wrote a play with 6 other girls from my drama class about the theories of her death but the hole process of writing and playing the play just humanized this idea that we had of her It was an amazing project to work on and I think this video shows vary much what me and my team felt about Norma Jeane vs Marilyn Monroe
Lindsay!! I used this video as a jumping off point for my examination of Marilyn Diptych and the commodification of celebrities in my History of Commodities and Globalization course this past year! I did very well and I want to give you some credit, as you inspired me quite a bit with this video
IT'S TRUE! God I hate Harmony Korine. Still weirdly interested in watching Spring Breakers though, if anything to see James Franco sing Everytime by Britney Spears.
7:16 I thought you were going to mention that Anjelica Huston's father, John Huston, gave Marilyn her big break when he cast her in her first important role as a mob lawyer's sultry mistress in the film noir heist classic THE ASPHALT JUNGLE (1950). Over ten years later, he directed her again in her penultimate picture, THE MISFITS (1961).
There was a lifetime mini series called "The Secret Life of Marilyn Monroe" that came out last year that. One of those flashback movies being told to a reporter, kind of like "Interview with a Vampire". Kind of sad that one fell under your radar.
Great job as always, Lindsay. I always look forward to your intelligent perspectives, and always get excited to watch whenever I see you've dropped a new video. I continue to look forward to your work... ~_~
good episode Lindsay. i enjoyed it a lot. im not surprised that her life is still very much behind a wall of deivication. Not many (if any ) knew her during her life, let alone now so many years after her death...
So I just stumbled onto these videos for the first time, pretty stunned by the quality of the writing and production. Also the whole legitimately intelligent and even more legitimately funny girl is *super attractive*. A bit of a crush over here.
Spaniard diva Ana Belen also had a pop song about Marilyn. In it, she's this lonely tragic girl, and after she dies she's commercialized. Accurate. I like the Capote "A beautiful child" piece.
My favorite Marilyn Monroe is the one robotic one Lister builds for Kryten on Red Dwarf. She also shows up In the episodes 'Better than Life' and 'Rimmer World' from the same series. I think she was recently on the series Legends of Tomorrow.
I really loved this video! Especially when you talked about Lana Del Rey a bit. I'm a huge fan of hers and she touches upon Marilyn Monroe quite often in her music. The reason I'm so interested in people like Marilyn and Lana is because I can relate to the sadness and tragedy. To see these two beautiful, successful, talented women use their tragedies to their advantage is very empowering to me (Even though Marilyn died because of it). Also in Lana's music I feel like I'm allowed to be depressed and I feel respected. Especially in a pop music world where everyone wants you to be happy and the deepest most meaningful song is a 20 year old rubbing his own cock with some sad music. I did wonder why you didn't use Lana Del Rey's other portrays of Marilyn like in National Anthem.
1. “When the legend becomes fact, print the legend.” 2. _Candle in the Wind_ is one of my all-time favorite tunes. So beautiful, so sad; just like Marilyn. 3. Timecop was a TV show?!?!
When you mention the Elton John and how much Marilyn Monroe is loved and known as idea- isn´t it odd that John used the song again as hymn to Lady Di after her death. I found it strange, that nobody ever called him lazy for this. in a way this shows how interchangable popcultural flattend icons are.
He chose "Candle in the Wind" because apparently it had been Diana's favorite song. He did rewrite it to better fit Diana; they're not the same lyrics as Marilyn's version, though IMO the original lyric "Even when you died, all the press still hounded you" should've remained for Diana's version, since that's exactly what happened to her, i.e. being chased by paparazzi and they continuing to take photos of her totaled car. BTW: Elton John also performed the song as a tribute to AIDS victim/activist Ryan White, shortly after his death in 1990. However, John didn't revise the song but instead sang the original Marilyn lyrics.
I wish you covered a bit on her use as a plus-size icon. There was a real trend a couple years back of women posting her reported measurements in relation to the average US woman or putting her photo next to one of a very thin model and asking: "Who is the REAL woman??"
Lindsay mentioned Tropico!!!! that is so exciting! I think you are right on in mentioning the deitifiying (sp?) of celebrities but the short film does more than that. it's pagan americana- its a a post Christianity reappropriation of religious iconography into the Warhol world of celebrities, perhaps the greatest beneficiaries of a dogmatic craze toward symbols. I know this video was about Marilyn but I recommend looking into Tropico. my English degree and I are obsessed with analyzing it.
While I'm pretty sure the tragic beauty aspect of Marilyn is probably what attracted Del Rey the most (being she kinda exudes that herself), there's the deal with Marilyn's diaries and her much, much richer inner life that was obscured by her Hollywood persona that I think she (Del Rey) also has a thing for, what with the being an introvert with a carefully constructed image and all.
"I am the hope of the Universe. I am the answer to all living things who cry out for peace. I am protector of the innocent. I am the light in the darkness. I am truth... ally to good, nightmare to you."- Marilyn Monroe
Perhaps the big ? in the "meaning" of Marilyn is this sense of quiet pain. In the ways she is depicted she usually seems to be really happy, smiling and glamorous yadda, yadda, yadda... but when you look at her life, that isn't quite a "happy person" M.O. Marilyn can be left with the shallow fashionista heart-breaker that her movies and media show but for people with an itsy bit of insight on her life she is, well tragic. And perhaps that's what she means, to have this front of the ideal person while inside you are dying and your fame just makes it all that hard for people to even try to understand you because you are not just some girl, you are THE girl, unreachable, unrelatable, perfect.
I'm slowly making my way through your YT catalog and am thoroughly entertained. I do have a minor request based on this minisode, which I assume will be either ignored or unnecessary (but only because I'm a more realistic fanboy): I would LIVE for some real hard research into Judy Garland (whose story is already pretty damn harrowing and dramatic) and the legend that her death was in part responsible for the Stonewall Riots (she died less than a week prior).
![Stromae, Pomme - “Ma Meilleure Ennemie” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1F3OGIFnW1k/mqdefault.jpg)
"No. Stop it. It's a made up quote! Stop attributing it to Marilyn Monroe!" - Marilyn Monroe
"First I was alive....and then I was dead....and now I'm alive again."
- Marilyn Monroe
Well, that is paraphrasing so it's valid
'I am vengeance. I am the night. I am Batman' - Marilyn Monroe
Another thing she actually did do and there's almost never any mention of is getting Ella Fitzgerald into white segregated night clubs by telling the owner she would sit front row every show, essentially getting the club so much business that it had no choice but to desegregate.
Is that even true? Sounds a little too similar to Frank Sinatra making sure Sammy Davis Jr. didn’t have to use the “colored” entrances or not get to sit in a “whites only” establishment.
@@DisgruntledPigumon the marilyn one is very much true
Aaq
@@joshuajames6481 no it is not. I read Marilyn Monroe: The Private Life of a Public Icon by Charles Casillo; which is the definitive biography of Marilyn Monroe and it never mentions Ella Fitzgerald beyond the fact that she called Marilyn “ahead of her time.”
@@pgplumsparkle ok
How does that mean I'm wrong?
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it." - Abraham Lincoln.
I'm so sick of some sanctimonious idiots. Misquoting or quote mining by writings on Facebook & Twitter.
George Orwell :)
Yours doesn't have a picture...Does that mean Abraham Lincoln really said that?
Ah who cares if they're their quotes or not, they're still awesome people
"You miss 100 percent of the shots you don't take." - Lee Harvey Oswald
-Michael Scott
"If you can't handle the worst of times, you don't deserve the best of times." - Marilyn Dickens
Why is this not the top comment.
I can’t stop laughing .
I've always found it ironic and sad that she's mostly as misunderstood in death as she was in life. Those fake Marilyn quotes are the worst. Also ironic that her image is still taken advantage of for $$ to such an extent
I personally get quite infuriated at the "gangsta queen" photoshops of Marilyn. You know, where shes got a bunch of cash or drugs in hand/surrounding her, possibly a bandana on her face, and of course a full sleeve of incredibly tacky cliche tattoos on each arm & hand.
It's a favorite image of petty street dealers everywhere.
You touched upon this briefly when you talked about Lana Del Rey, but what I find really interesting is the fact that, we don't love Marilyn's glamour in spite of her sad life... Her sad life is a part of the glamour. Somehow, the idea of being beautiful and seductive and perfect in public, but living in a shallow, lonely world in private, really strikes a cord with us. We even kind of aspire to it, fantasizing about that kind of life, even if we wouldn't really want to live it. And I wonder-- is it because of Marilyn and those like her that we make the association? Or is it something more instinctual? It's probably a bit of both. As for why that kind of thing would be appealing even without the association, well, we do love tragic figures. And I'd say it has to do with the intensity of emotion involved. I doubt Romeo and Juliette would be considered such a classic love story if they didn't both die at the end. Also, we like complexity. Someone who's confident and sexy on the outside, but insecure and immature on the inside, I think we tend to find that more interesting than if that person were exactly like their image.
I guess I've been thinking about this for a while. I like Marina and the Diamonds, and she did an album as this character she created, Electra Heart. Electra Heart is definitely based on Marilyn; in fact, Marina/Electra kinda impersonates her in the video for "Prima Donna Girl." That's the song that best represents this kind of thing, I think. Marina says that for her, Electra represents everything wrong with American ideals, and the worse side of herself. But I wouldn't call it strictly a critique, either, because, yeah, she definitely makes it seem appealing at the same time. I get the impression that she really enjoys playing that role. I'm not sure whether that's a good thing or a bad thing. On the one hand, it's kind of great when a song or a book or a movie implicates the audience, because it makes us see things about ourselves that we'd rather ignore. On the other, it can be seen as indulging in and encouraging unhealthy ideals under the pretext of criticism. Eh, I enjoy it either way.
I know that I am late, but I've just got to say that I don't consider Romeo and Juliet to be a classic love story. It is a satirical comedy, and a pretty funny one at that. And a bit of a commentary on the folly of emotions, and letting them run away from you/dominate your senses.
It's probably because we on a primal level just think if life is gonna be sh** and we're gonna be depressed anyways might as well have a glamorous life and have nice things and have it easy while doing so and at least be remembered.
This really resonates with me. I've been thinking about it for a few years now and how it's applied to everyday life as well but i was never really able to put it into words so big thanks for that^^
If we accept that sadness and death comes even to the most wealthy and famous of us it kind of makes it easier to swallow that we don't have fame and wealth ourselves. A perfect celebrity with no flaw whatsoever is an inhuman icon, BUT when we notice a crack in the facade we realize there is in fact a person behind it all. Just meat and bone and brains just like us. And if they're miserable despite (or even better, BECAUSE of) having the things we dream of having then maybe, just maybe, not having those things is actually ok.
This comment is genius
(Also, a dead artist's image as an IP is kind of a scary thing)
How do you mean?
I dunno, don't you think it's a bit weird that a faceless corporation you've never met could gain exclusive rights to distribution of your image, years after your death?
That after other circumstances would've made it so that you'd no longer be thought of as a person, a company could turn you into not even a historical figure or "icon", but a *brand*?
How about Audrey Hepburn? Would be very interesting to see you talk about her.
cindythefreak have there been many depictions of her?
@@Kuudere-Kun
i think your thinking of Katharine Hepburn, she might have been bisexual but there is no evidence Audrey was
W’e get to hear her badass stories of resisting the Nazis. That would definitely be cool.
Yes!
@Brayden Szabo Yes she did. She suffered greatly from her father leaving her at her young age. She suffered from a nicotine addiction and went through several miscarriages and loveless marriages. She was a prominent antifascist and children's rights activist. But when people see her they don't remember her struggles. They just see her as the pretty actress who wore a black dress at one point.
"Marilyn Monroe wasn't her real name; Charles Manson wasn't his real name. I'm taking them both and making them my real name." -- Marilyn Manson
***** A-ha!
+L Franco
Oh, hey, it's my favorite porn star #EXPOSED
+Stephen Leotti k.
oop
Plot twist: that’s not his real name...
If anyone is interested in a documentary that I really like and made me like Marilyn, too, check out "Love, Marilyn". It looks like letters she and others around her wrote and gives a really cool peak at who Marilyn really was, showing that a lot of what people have seen as her image was actually a construction partially by her and by the studio itself, and that that was something she actually wasn't all that happy with. This was the documentary that taught me about the story of Marilyn and, I have to say, I actually really like the real Marilyn far more than I like the image of her and I think she would have been very, very happy to have heard that.
I've often been fascinated with the mythical status of certain celebrities. In mythology, there's often a love-and-beauty deity, counter-balanced by a darker counterpart to herself. In modern pop culture, this seems to be personified in the forms of Marilyn Monroe and Bettie Page. They fit into a sort of Joseph-Campbell-esque modern mythology.
It's interesting that the breathy voice pops up so often in these biopics. That wasn't the voice she used in her day to day life, it was a tool she used to create the character archetype she is known for! But it's part of the mythology, and it's more easily recognized than her real voice, so in it goes. Sort of apt when we're talking about the human being vs the Hollywood symbol I spose.
This talk about how Marilyn is more of a symbol (mis)constructed from a real person, having unverifiable stories created about her, and misquoting her; I can't help but think that this is how religions get their scriptures. Maybe in a few hundred years, Marilyn Monroe will become more than just a pop icon similar to Elvis in Fallout: New Vegas.
I would read that scifi book where Marilyn is the God.
You thinking that doesn’t make it true though. That’s what you have to remember.
My mom is a die-hard Marilyn Truther, and will insist that she was murdered as a cover-up for the Kennedys. Then again, my mom was 12 when she died, so that explains some things.
She was Kennedy's lover tho
How did you mom have you if she was 12 when she died?
christmastiger The mom was 12 when Marilyn died. Pronouns made that sentence tricky ha ha
@@christmastiger this could've been posted by a grown person
My mom's the same way she also believes her maid who was with her before she died was in love with her.
"Stop attributing fake quotes to Marilyn Monroe!"
--Samuel "Bill Gates" Clemens
My uncle knew Marilyn, briefly, and he said people hugely, hugely underestimated her. She didn’t talk like her characters did, she didn’t wear a tonne of make up, and she was so damn smart. Her truths are ethereal and elusive, and I’d recommend people look at the book Marilyn Among Friends, by Norman Rosten and Sam Shaw. It’s revealing in how essentially normal a girl she’s revealed as, and the photos are exquisite. Just Norma Jean being herself, and mostly happy. Which breaks my heart. No one will ever replace or replicate her, there was a quality about her no one can emulate, no amount of makeup, hair, voice or clothes can reproduce it.
"I'm so sick. Of clueless idiots. Misinterpreting or quote mining my speeches & writings. On Facebook & Twitter especially during the EU Referendum." :) Sir Winston Churchill
I would love to see you talk about the fact Joker and Harley Quinn's relationship is mis-interpreted as a 'good romance' and how wrong couples are who say they want to be like them , or better yet - how wrong it is that there's children's Harley Quinn costumes and Toys now?!
Maria Beecham And the fact that people literally name their daughters Harley Quinn. Although in that case, it was back when she was only in the 90s cartoon before the abuse allegory was explicit.
Harley has changed as a character though and doesn't mean the same thing anymore.
are kids not allowed to dress up as villains and play with villains toys now? what about all those darth vader costumes and toys
@@tatehildyard5332 didn’t Kevin Smith do that?? 😂
@@galleryofrogues Yes.
Now I want to listen to 5000 Candles in The Wind
I heard it’s 5000 times better than “Candle in the Wind”.
"You're gonna need a bigger boat" - Marilyn Monroe
Anybody want Lindsay to do a mini-canon for The Joker?
I don't think that would be a minisode...
***** I can get behind that.
Not until after Suicide Squad comes out cause that Joker is really the Joker of now with the tattooed and stuff and to compare to Cesear Romero who very much embodies what the 60s were like
"You can call me Joker...And as you can see, I'm a lot happier".
Jack Nicholson's Joker will always be the best!
*Mark Hamill's
Fixed that for you.
I work in a department store that sells clothes that is just called Marilyn Monroe. Some of it has her image and the rest is just flashy, loud color, pretty ugly, dresses, skirts and shirts. And honestly I'm not really sure the real Marilyn would have worn, basically any of it.
Marilyn, like many popular stars, was at her best when people treated her like a regular person. My dad was called to do the sound prep for an interview with director Billy Wilder during filming of “The Seven Year Itch.” He was setting things up when a young woman in extreme makeup came over and asked what he was up to. They chatted easily for 10 minutes on a range of subjects-until they heard, “We’re ready for you, Miss Monroe.” “Oh, well, it was nice talking to you! Bye!” Marilyn had been made up for that staircase dream sequence and my dad hadn’t recognized her-and I think she was delighted to be treated like any other person, and not “Miss Monroe” for a change.
Jackie Kennedy would make a great mini canon episode but then I'll watch anything on chez Lindsay
I read a screenplay about a company that cloned dead celebrities, and one of them was a Marilyn clone. It was a stupid script, but it had its moments, namely when the clone goes to a statue of Marilyn and has a whole soliloquy about what it means to live up to such a legacy and how she is really a copy of an icon, not a person. Eerily similar to what happens in real life.
So do you read random weird screenplays? What was the best? What was the worst?
That actually does sound like an interesting idea.
John Smith it was for an internship, most were terrible, and I ran into more than one that involved incest!
Tate Hildyard the idea is better than the read itself
Zak Kizer I remember when my cousin had an internship at FOX. We couldn't stop laughing at the script for Peeps: Escape from Peep Island.
So Lindsay, have you ever seen Don't Bother To Knock? It's my favorite Marilyn Monroe movie. In it she plays Nell, a young woman recently released from a mental hospital after a suicide attempt. She's hired as a babysitter for a couple staying at a hotel where her uncle works. You get to see her downward spiral through the course of one night. It's based on the short novel (about 126 pages) Mischief by Charlotte Armstrong and is, in my opinion, one of the few times the movie is better than the book.
Damn, you sold it to me. Gotta watch it sometime.
I'll second that recommendation. It's currently streaming on Netflix if you live in the US, as are a number of Marilyn Monroe movies, both her hits and her lesser known work. River of No Return with Robert Mitchum is also fun and shows off her range a bit more than her later work tended to.
That sounds like every Kristen Wiig indie movie.
Yes, this one! This is my favorite Marilyn. I always forget that she actually was a good, nuanced, and thoroughly convincing actress.
So, after I saw this comment I decided to give the movie a shot and it was really good. Thank you for recommending it! :)
Glad to see your channel isn't dead.
She uploaded last time, like, two weeks ago... Her channel is nowhere near dead
I know she does some freelance work, but I don't know if she's full-time freelance or not.
two weeks?!
Try to pull this off with angryjoes community.
....
God They're so annoying -.-
I think I need a cigarette. I'm too talkative
Thanks for this video. It was very enlightening, especially now that her face is an IP owned by a company.
Yah, that was interesting. Elvis's "persona" is copyrighted, too, prolly by this same company. It makes me wonder how that sort of business deal went down, and how they manage it. To what degree does an actor have to portray the caricature of the person before it breeches copyright?
Her image is owned by her estate although they can't completely stop the public from using it. Controlling interest in Elvis' estate was sold by Lisa Marie.
i'm glad i'm not the only one that thinks of that parks & rec scene whenever i hear the words "candle in the wind".
I really really like your stuff.
Please never stop making Internet stuff I can consume....
Marilyn Monroe was not a person,merely an image. One reason that the image has remained strong was her death before she could grow old. Everyone knows Marilyn Monroe but no one knew Norma Jean Baker.
This hits different post-Blonde
Thank you for sharing this great tribute to the person behind the image Marilyn Monroe. Very well done!
Surprised you didn't touch on Norma Jean & Marilyn, a TV movie with Ashley Judd and Mira Sorvino.
It was fictionalized (like pretty much every other Marilyn biopic), and the two sides of Marilyn Monroe (Marilyn/Norma Jean) were played by two different actresses. I remember it kind of implied a split personality thing, which may or may not have been kind of tasteless? Marilyn a la Sybil?
I remember liking it, but the last time I saw it was 16 years ago, so who knows if it holds up or not.
At least it was higher budget than most of the stuff about Marilyn, boy howdy.
I just discovered your channel and I'm bingeing. Awesome content. 😄
out of all the loose cannon episodes so far, I think this one was the most interesting and made me think the most. This has made me think about a variety of celebrities from the likes of Lindsay Lohan to Picasso and how much of their identities were comprised of the influences of their reputation and their works and how much was the same sources of influences that we all go through. Thanks for being super rad Lindsay and making me contemplate the significance of a celebrities image as well as how much scratchier Starscream's voice can get with each new Transformers show
I've always been quite fascinated by her as a person. I'm also glad that I now know that "quote" of hers is fake. Also, can I just say that I love your new haircut?
Far out, how I've missed your videos. Thank you so much for posting new content Lindsay. Time to have a binge catch-up. *Heats up pizza pockets*
I love your loose canon episodes. I can't believe I missed this one (I'm glad you briefly brought up Smash. You always manage to briefly bring up the one bit of media I am very knowledgeable and usually fond of and brush it off because it's not actually influential - like Once Upon a Time and Dead Like Me)
The idea a company can basically own someone's corpse and image just makes my stomach churn and my blood boil. This is the one of kind of thing that have turned people away from the idea of capitalism,
I actually just wrote a play with 6 other girls from my drama class about the theories of her death but the hole process of writing and playing the play just humanized this idea that we had of her
It was an amazing project to work on and I think this video shows vary much what me and my team felt about Norma Jeane vs Marilyn Monroe
Megan Hilty is amazing in Smash. Love all her season 1 songs. Espc the "bombshell" songs like never met a wolf who didn't love to howl
"Anyone up for a voring? Rawr! (That means I love you in dinosaur)." - Marilyn Monroe
"This Video was sponsored by *RAID SHADOW LEGENDS* check out the link in the description!" -Marilyn Monroe
Lindsay!! I used this video as a jumping off point for my examination of Marilyn Diptych and the commodification of celebrities in my History of Commodities and Globalization course this past year! I did very well and I want to give you some credit, as you inspired me quite a bit with this video
As Mike from RLM said: "a Harmony Korine film is like an embarrassing porno"
It's not even really a joke, it's just looking at something and saying what it is.
+vulgardarling; Mister Lonely and Spring Breakers were good.
IT'S TRUE! God I hate Harmony Korine. Still weirdly interested in watching Spring Breakers though, if anything to see James Franco sing Everytime by Britney Spears.
You could just watch a clip of it on youtube
it's freaking brilliant always
Still loving these Mini-Canons! Always pleased to see another one of your videos in my notifications. Keep it up!
What about a Loose Canon of Jekyll and Hyde?
La Esmeralda YES YES YES. I’ve requested this on a couple of Lindsay’s videos. I still wait patiently. 😊
Enjoying "Loose Cannon," but I miss "Nostalgia Chick." I really love hearing your commentary on film.
Hey Lindsey!!! Welcome back!!
7:16 I thought you were going to mention that Anjelica Huston's father, John Huston, gave Marilyn her big break when he cast her in her first important role as a mob lawyer's sultry mistress in the film noir heist classic THE ASPHALT JUNGLE (1950). Over ten years later, he directed her again in her penultimate picture, THE MISFITS (1961).
Glad to see a new Loose Canon!
There was a lifetime mini series called "The Secret Life of Marilyn Monroe" that came out last year that. One of those flashback movies being told to a reporter, kind of like "Interview with a Vampire". Kind of sad that one fell under your radar.
"If you can't handle me at my Durst, you don't deserve me at my Fred."
Great job as always, Lindsay. I always look forward to your intelligent perspectives, and always get excited to watch whenever I see you've dropped a new video. I continue to look forward to your work... ~_~
I love these loose canons so much
Ms. Ellis, it is good to see you back!
"I think I'll try defying gravity"-Marilyn Monroe
Ok, sometimes she’s quoted correctly.
I LOVE YOUR CHANNEL SO MUCH!!!
I am slowly making my way through your entire catalogue of content... a lovely experience
Absolutely one of my favorite episodes so far, Lindsay.
good episode Lindsay. i enjoyed it a lot. im not surprised that her life is still very much behind a wall of deivication. Not many (if any ) knew her during her life, let alone now so many years after her death...
So I just stumbled onto these videos for the first time, pretty stunned by the quality of the writing and production. Also the whole legitimately intelligent and even more legitimately funny girl is *super attractive*. A bit of a crush over here.
Spaniard diva Ana Belen also had a pop song about Marilyn. In it, she's this lonely tragic girl, and after she dies she's commercialized. Accurate.
I like the Capote "A beautiful child" piece.
Just want to say that I absolutely love this series. Keep up the good work!
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world" -Marilyn Monroe
What's with the gangsta Marilyn Monroe imagery I've been seeing on t-shirts recently?
Trivia: Marilyn has also been used as a LITERAL spirit guide in the 2009 italian comedy 'Io E Marilyn' (Marilyn And Me).
My favorite Marilyn Monroe is the one robotic one Lister builds for Kryten on Red Dwarf. She also shows up In the episodes 'Better than Life' and 'Rimmer World' from the same series.
I think she was recently on the series Legends of Tomorrow.
I was so happy you included that parks and rec clip
Kim K wearing her dress and getting a lock of her hair made me go back to this...damn
I'd love to see you do a Loose or Mini Canon on either Quasimodo or Jean Valjean
I could have a french-themed vote!
+Chez Lindsay Thank you Miss Ellis!! I owe you one!!
Inspector Javert vs Inspector Clouseau. *Mic Drop*
+Chez Lindsay if you do may I suggest ,you use as characters Jean Valjean, Edmoumd Dantes, Quasimodo, Cossete, Epoine, esmeldreda.
Dylan Tennant
I'd love to see which versions of Les Mis and Hunchback are most faithful to the book
Well, Lana sure loves the Marilyn - Kennedy theme. Just look at her ¨National Anthem¨ video..
I really loved this video! Especially when you talked about Lana Del Rey a bit. I'm a huge fan of hers and she touches upon Marilyn Monroe quite often in her music. The reason I'm so interested in people like Marilyn and Lana is because I can relate to the sadness and tragedy. To see these two beautiful, successful, talented women use their tragedies to their advantage is very empowering to me (Even though Marilyn died because of it). Also in Lana's music I feel like I'm allowed to be depressed and I feel respected. Especially in a pop music world where everyone wants you to be happy and the deepest most meaningful song is a 20 year old rubbing his own cock with some sad music. I did wonder why you didn't use Lana Del Rey's other portrays of Marilyn like in National Anthem.
Love this series! And remember, I'm available for information assistance the probable (highly unlikely) Godzilla episode when you need it!
1. “When the legend becomes fact, print the legend.”
2. _Candle in the Wind_ is one of my all-time favorite tunes. So beautiful, so sad; just like Marilyn.
3. Timecop was a TV show?!?!
awesome episode! I love looking forward to every new episode you put out. keep up the great work girl! :)
When you mention the Elton John and how much Marilyn Monroe is loved and known as idea- isn´t it odd that John used the song again as hymn to Lady Di after her death. I found it strange, that nobody ever called him lazy for this. in a way this shows how interchangable popcultural flattend icons are.
I heard him called variations of "lazy" at the time.
He chose "Candle in the Wind" because apparently it had been Diana's favorite song. He did rewrite it to better fit Diana; they're not the same lyrics as Marilyn's version, though IMO the original lyric "Even when you died, all the press still hounded you" should've remained for Diana's version, since that's exactly what happened to her, i.e. being chased by paparazzi and they continuing to take photos of her totaled car.
BTW: Elton John also performed the song as a tribute to AIDS victim/activist Ryan White, shortly after his death in 1990. However, John didn't revise the song but instead sang the original Marilyn lyrics.
7:18 - 7:48 NOPE! NOPE! NOPE! NOPE! NOPE! THAT DID NOT HAPPEN! THAT NEVER HAPPENED! THAT WAS JUST A VERY BAD DREAM!
there is no wall within the walls of ba sing se.
here we are safe.
here we are free.
Lindsay your makeup is on point in this video (and other videos too) but this video especially.
I wish you covered a bit on her use as a plus-size icon. There was a real trend a couple years back of women posting her reported measurements in relation to the average US woman or putting her photo next to one of a very thin model and asking: "Who is the REAL woman??"
yayy!! more loose canon! seeing this series in my feed always brightens my day :)
Lindsay mentioned Tropico!!!! that is so exciting! I think you are right on in mentioning the deitifiying (sp?) of celebrities but the short film does more than that. it's pagan americana- its a a post Christianity reappropriation of religious iconography into the Warhol world of celebrities, perhaps the greatest beneficiaries of a dogmatic craze toward symbols. I know this video was about Marilyn but I recommend looking into Tropico. my English degree and I are obsessed with analyzing it.
I'm honestly glad this came out before Blonde because that no doubt made this a hell of a lot more depressing haha
To be fair, that quote has done the world enormous good in flagging toxic people you should run screaming away from.
Why does nobody point out Renée Zellweger's brilliant modelling of her Roxy character on Marilyn in "Chicago"?
God bless you for including that parks and rec scene
While I'm pretty sure the tragic beauty aspect of Marilyn is probably what attracted Del Rey the most (being she kinda exudes that herself), there's the deal with Marilyn's diaries and her much, much richer inner life that was obscured by her Hollywood persona that I think she (Del Rey) also has a thing for, what with the being an introvert with a carefully constructed image and all.
I guess you can say that she lost face.......
The savagery is on high display.
I love your channel! So smart and funny and the videos are really well done!
This feels different in the wake of the Kim K. Exploiting the use of her dress.
it's incredibly sad how marilyn was seen as a symbol rather than a person in life AND death
"I am the hope of the Universe. I am the answer to all living things who cry out for peace. I am protector of the innocent. I am the light in the darkness. I am truth... ally to good, nightmare to you."- Marilyn Monroe
6 years later they STILL won't let the woman rest
Can't wait for the Historical Event Loose Canon :) I voted for Pearl Harbor, but really any of these are pretty interesting.
Perhaps the big ? in the "meaning" of Marilyn is this sense of quiet pain.
In the ways she is depicted she usually seems to be really happy, smiling and glamorous yadda, yadda, yadda... but when you look at her life, that isn't quite a "happy person" M.O.
Marilyn can be left with the shallow fashionista heart-breaker that her movies and media show but for people with an itsy bit of insight on her life she is, well tragic.
And perhaps that's what she means, to have this front of the ideal person while inside you are dying and your fame just makes it all that hard for people to even try to understand you because you are not just some girl, you are THE girl, unreachable, unrelatable, perfect.
dang Lindsey your makeup is georgous in this vid. Love the lipstick
I'm slowly making my way through your YT catalog and am thoroughly entertained.
I do have a minor request based on this minisode, which I assume will be either ignored or unnecessary (but only because I'm a more realistic fanboy): I would LIVE for some real hard research into Judy Garland (whose story is already pretty damn harrowing and dramatic) and the legend that her death was in part responsible for the Stonewall Riots (she died less than a week prior).
I LOVE LOVE LOVE YOU LINDSAY!!!
These canons always give me great essay inspiration