Regigigas - Why its Made Terrible on Purpose // [Game Designer Explains]
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- Опубликовано: 13 июн 2024
- Slow Start is an Ability that completely cripples Regigigas as a Pokémon. Unreasonably and unfairly so. But why did the game's designers choose to screw over this one Pokémon so badly?
Believe it or not, the answer isn't because of "lore". And neither is it because of "balance".
Channel Discord: / discord
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Chapter Timestamps
0:00 - Opening Gag
0:25 - Introduction
2:28 - Why "Lore and Story" are not a Valid Reason
6:06 - Detour: Explaining Why Story has no Influence during Game Balancing
11:37 - (SKIP TO HERE) Returning to the Topic of Regigigas
12:19 - Regigigas's Intended Game Role
15:00 - The Regi Trio Sidequest Problem
16:46 - The Paywall Problem
18:09 - Conclusion: Why Slow Start was a Necessity back in Gen 4
20:00 - Regigigas & Slow Start in the Modern Day
22:03 - Outro
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Music Timestamps
0:25 - Courtroom Lobby, New Prelude [Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney]
6:06 - COMPLICATION [Ghost Trick: Phantom Detective]
11:37 - SUSPICION [Ghost Trick: Phantom Detective]
12:19 - Logic and Tricks [Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright]
13:30 - THE IMPRISONED [Ghost Trick: Phantom Detective]
22:03 - Reincarnation (2023 Remix) [Ghost Trick: Phantom Detective]
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Link to Captain Fidget's Regigigas Video: • GameFreak Made Regigig...
Captain Fidget's own video on Regigigas's lore and background inspiration was remarkably well-researched. I do recommend giving it a watch if you are interested in learning more about the lore of the Regis in general. 
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For whatever reason, this video took far longer than I initially expected. I was having some difficulty phrasing my main points in a clear and understandable fashion, and the script saw two additional rewrites and re-recordings because I was not satisfied with it. Even now, I feel unsure about whether people will understand. I also have a minor clarification on my statement regarding regarding story and game balance.
Game Design will certain consider and create game content based on lore. However, the decisions regarding things such as difficulty and balance will not be influenced.
For example, the other Pokemon with Slow Start is Varoom (no I am not correcting my video because it distracts from my main point). Varoom was given Slow Start as its Hidden Ability as a cute nod to it being a starting engine. Its absolutely a lore based design choice. However, it doesn't influence it's game balance, because Varoom's default ability is Overcoat, meaning it is mechanically balanced around that ability. Additionally, Revavroom loses Slow Start and obtains Filter upon evolution, meaning that the lore based addition of Slow Start did not impact mechanical gameplay balance in any way.
If Regigigas's Slow Start was solely lore motivated, it could have received a Hidden Ability the next generation. But it didn't, implying that the game balance intentionally wished to keep it in its current state for some other reason.
Lore and Game Balance can co-exist, and game designers will create and design content for them both. It's just that one does not forcibly dictate the other's creation or implementation.
Also, for the record, I have nothing against Captain Fidget. I actually found his research into background lore and history to be remarkably thorough and informative. I just disagree with his final conclusion being that lore was the primary motivation behind such a balance decision.
I mainly brought him up to really emphasize that lore and narrative are important, but are never taken as a priority when it comes to matters of gameplay balance. I see this misconception a lot in general on the internet, with people using lore to "justify" certain game decisions, when in reality, the industry doesn't work like that.
Edit: I’ve also made a mistake regarding the DS transfer. Forgot that it was GBA compatible. Regardless the main point still applies - it’s just that Regigigas is now on par with Manaphy in “needing a separate game to obtain in its home generation” instead of surpassing it
I would have it get a Hidden Ability that would work like Slow Start, but call it Regi Master, and give it +1 Defense and Special Defense when it comes out. Then, once Slow Start 5 turns pass, give it an additional +1 to Defense and Special Defense. It would be locked to a game with an Ability patch, still connect to the lore because of the defensive Natures of the original Regi Trio, and make it more viable as a Legendary.
@@vincentsissom4180 I think that it would be a lot easier to just. Make slow start turns not reset upon switching out if it's about making "a good slow start"
But they're not gonna do it bc even tho regigigas is a lot more accessible these days, it's still funny how bad it is
To give some feedback, even if your frustration with Captain Fidget's video was your inspiration for making this one, starting with that was quite off-putting. I was here for some neat game design insights: not to listen to you call out another RUclipsr. I hadn't even heard of them before; I just wasn't ready for that energy. And the impression I have is that analysis overemphasizing lore/story/narrative (relative to game design) is a pet peeve of yours, so singling someone out really doesn't seem necessary. Yes, you did attempt to assuage things a bit by praising other aspects of Captain Fidget's work, but it's a band-aid solution to an issue that didn't have to be there.
@@TheAmberFang I agree to this, it sounded extremely salty for no reason. Just generalizing things would've been better, if the rant of the missinformation was needed
@TheAmberFang Yeah I agree. He easily could have said he disagrees with the lore reasoning without ranting about him. Also calling out the number of people that watched it seemed like an odd thing to do and just makes him seem more mad. I've only seen a couple of vids from this dude in my recommended and I liked them, but I hope this sort of ranting isn't gonna be a reoccurring thing.
"A gameing company will never create a game mechanic only because the lore says so"
Fromsoftware enters the chat:
Yeah i think this video is juat a guy thinking that every game dev thinks the same way or have the same priorities lmao
I mean it’s not really a common practice in game design, but yes it does exist.
FromSoft is an exception to a lot of rules, especially when it comes to casual pandering. Besides, the end goal is usually Story/Gameplay Integration. (it's just that gameplay should always be a priority given these are, ya know, videogames)
@@SonnyFRST oh belive me, I didn't come here to say that from is the norm.
In fact in Dark Souls 3 there was a mechanic where the bonfires didn't exist and you had to make your own with the bodies of your enemies, this because the lore says that fire is fading so much that bonfires can't exist anymore.
However for gamedesign this was scrapped because if you could make a checkpoint every enemy that would ruin the gameplay.
I was just saying that from is an exeption but not ALL developers DON'T do it as he said in the video
@@-ShellyT-fair enough. And honestly, I don’t think that it should be the norm. Story and game mechanics can hurt each other if they implement certain story elements to certain game play aspects. I get the impression that FromSoft builds a world based off the gameplay loop they create, which is why it works so well it’s much harder to do it the other way around. Probably, I’m not a game designer.
Regigigas will wait patiently for its revenge, but only for five turns. After that, it will begin its assult.
Regilobster
Wonder if there was a better way to phrase that whole situation with Ryoma. That localization choice was mildly silly...
@@thesoradogKing Lobster
Imagine if Regigigas or just a Pokémon opposite to/like Regigigas got Quick Start.
Either it would make every single Pokémon player shiver in fear and or it would just make it slightly good.
@@Asksalot_VeryCoolwheezing laughing in neutralizing gas:
So Bragging rights... Regigigas is supposed to be a reward for Catching and bringing the other Regi's to it? That's why
ironically the bragging rights is a shitty pokemon, a legendary at that, bragging about a high score would be less cringe than this.
“bragging rights” is too simplistic of a summary of this video; incorrect, even.
the video was making the point that if Regigigas were very powerful, everyone would want to get it, and players would have the Fear Of Missing Out if they didn’t get it. like Mewtwo in Gen 1 or Gjallarhorn in Destiny or the Masamune hidden sword in quite a few games. if there are a lot of tedious steps to get it, making the Pokemon reward unusable in battle means someone like me who doesn’t want to go through all of those steps doesn’t feel “obligated” to go get it. the box art legendaries are usually handed to you on a silver platter, while ultra rare pokemon aren’t necessarily great for battle.
i never found any of the Regis because i just didn’t care to; i’m more interested in clever egg moves and creating type-diverse teams and under leveling myself for a challenge. if Reggiegiggas were so powerful that it could beat anything (like Mewtwo) then i’d feel annoyed having to go through all that gameplay that i otherwise found tedious and not worth my time personally.
as another example, i love the lore of the underwater temple thing in Black and White, but i’m quite content to watch RUclips videos explaining it rather than the wild amount of trial and error required to see every single bit of lore in-game. Mewtwo was in a dungeon maze, but a completable one. if Mewtwo were locked behind the underwater temple, players would feel annoyed at “having” to go through it as a “necessity” rather than it being fun for the players who chose it optionally.
it’s also arguably pay-to-win, as the video explained, requiring multiple games and consoles. making it overpowered would frustrate players who didn’t or couldn’t complete all the steps.
@@Warmaster00still being able to brag to your school friends who only had diamond or pearl is enough. It's like getting a hard mount in an MMO even if it looks like shit but because it was hard to get and not everyone would get it gives you bragging rights.
Could've been as decent as others rather than terrible though
That doesn't seem super logical in Gen 4. Gen 4 is known too have way too many legendaries, some of which are event-locked. If Regigigas was average-stat already, you weren't missing on anything in Gen 4, where you had a bazillion other legendaries to work with in the same capacity and could potentially miss forever. If being something that would pain people who couldn't get it was the reason for it being weak as an immobile slab of stone, then Darkrai, Manaphy, Arceus and Shaymin would have had the same type of design philosophy. Plus, if the obtention method was so arduous, then they could have made that method less arduous. The Regis were already the reward for completing their side-quest, there was no need to make it a cross-game reward in the first place. The regis could have existed in-game, or there could have been item stand-ins for them scattered across the game, or a light braille puzzle to emulate the first side-quest to obtain Regigigas. If he existed in Gen 3, locked behind that obtuse puzzle, it would have made sense for him to be a sort of alternate trophy in-game. In Gen 4, it is absolutely needless design.
And then there's the opposite reasoning: pokemon that are meant to be astonishgly useful that weren't even advertized outside the game prior to gen 4 and are relatively easy to obtain. Yes, I'm talking about Garchomp... a pokemon that can OHKO both legendary mascots of the generation with its perfecly matching typing and speed to battle them.
For me, those discrepancies in treatment of pokemon all sound less like game balance and more like internal company issues of poor communication, hasty revision, insuficient overall planning, lack of foresight of the game's ecossystem and focus on forcing the selling of "plushies" over making people care for the creatures in a organical, steady way.
Besides, completionists and competitive PvP players never mixed in pokemon. Players hacked Cresselia and Heatran for tournments, they only didn't hack Regigigas because it was made unadvantageous. If regigigas had been competitive and a player wanted to have a chance, they were going to hack it, no matter how hard or trophy-ish the pokemon was to get. Completionists on the other hand wouldn't hack because it defeats their purpose. The last thing they care is the trophy pokemon being useful in battle, wouldn't make a difference for them if regigigas was good. The bragging is about the capture.
@@WheelAlligatesX2 it's strange too, cause the team building was among the most interesting in the series for gym leaders/elites. You'd think there was a lot of care and time put into it, but there are many aspects that feel strange, rushed and poorly planned (like the speed of those health bars. By God's how did that pass testing?)
@@thesoradog Oh... the health bar speed! They say there's an old, late 90's computer with a DS emulator that runs very slowly. They started a L100 blissey battle in permanent sandstorm with lefttovers around 2010... and still haven't finished. Only 3 turns have passed, I heard.. One of the Blisseys is predicted to finish recovering her HPthis month, after she used her first softboiled in september 2019 (15 more to go).
@@thesoradogMy guess is that some departments at GameFreak traditionally get more attention than othes. Design, marketing and concept are prioritized; clean programming, game mechanics, game balance and anticheat policies are neglected.
Also this would have continued to other Gens if this were the true reason
Gen 5 and 6 had similar issues with event mons and of course there is also Arceus
Regigigas is also in a game where people want lesser mons that are harder to get
Funny enough, Varoom now also has slow start, cause he's a car
BRUH really? I did not know that was its hidden ability... That sucks. Regigigas is so sad even its exclusive debuff isn't exclusive anymore. :(
Meanwhile durant has truant. :p
@@sinteleonat least durant can use it to its advantage
@@sinteleonthe true ant
Luckily when it evolves into Revavroom Slow Start becomes Filter. Because cars ventilation systems have filters XD
I do wonder why Regigigas can't be given anything on even the Hidden Ability slot, Pokemon gaining and losing abilities are not unheard of even on legendaries
The same reason Slaking and Archaeops don't have hidden abilities; their design would be completely broken by having their hindrance abilities removed.
@@nohrianscum9791 Would it for Regigigas? His stats ain't exactly that different from other legendaries so won't he just be as broken as most other legendaries?
@@ZenoDLC Because Regigigas is allowed in VCG but other 660+ BST legends are not
@@RickyRister Wait, so Gen3 Legendaries are never VGC legal?
@@ZenoDLC Box legends like Groudon, Kyogre, and Rayquaza are not VGC legal in normal formats (and take up one of the restricted slots in restricted formats).
Non-box legends like the regis and the lati twins are always VGC legal (assuming they are included in the format's dex).
Mythicals like Jirachi and Deoxys are never VGC legal.
Like I've seen others do in this comment section, I have to respectfully disagree with your argument that Slow start is supposed to make Regigigas underwhelming and undesirable, and I disagree even more with the botw comparison that implies we're not realistically supposed to complete the Regis quest and transfer them over to a gen 4 game. I have several counter-arguments and a different hypothesis to propose.
- Regigigas is very much a pokemon you are supposed to get since it counts for the national dex completion, which has always been framed as the 100% completion objective around which a lot of mechanics in pokemon are designed. Similarly, you are supposed to transfer the three Regis since they also count for the dex completion. Game freak is perfectly able to make a pokemon not count towards dex completion when they want to, it is generaly the case with mythicals.
- You are also totally supposed to own and use the GBA games in the process of playing gen 4 postgame. Not only are there a lot of other pokemons you can only get that way (mostly starters and legendaries), there's also a whole mechanic requiring to have one of these cartidges inserted in the GBA slot of the DS to encounter specific pokemon, that are even different for each of these cartridges, and that you can't get any other way in D/P/Pt. These don't come with any kind of handicap, in fact they include some very usefull pokemon for the battle frontier, like Gengar.
- If the goal was to make Regigigas underwhelming and undesirable to the public, it failed spectacularly, to the point I can't believe that was indeed the goal. Casual players in 2007 would know about Regigas's looks from magazines and websites, they would know about its lore and link with the other Regis, they would be curious about the temple which is empty unless we have the full trio. Everything around Regigigas makes it very desirable, except its ability which is not something players would know beforehand.
- And even then, designers may have thought that Slow start was not that big of a deal ; after all, Regigigas keeps its high defensive stats, it can Protect for 3 turns out of 5, and maybe buff during the other 2 turns. In the context of using him against, say, the Elite 4 rematches, Slow start is far from making Regigigas unplayable. This reputation likely comes from the competitive crowd, who regularly demonstrates that it is uncapable of percieving Pokemon game design from another angle than the competitive one (like with Onix, which as you very correctly stated is a boss first and a playable mon second). The combination of oober stats and slow start makes Regigigas weaker than other legendaries like Palkia/Dialga, but then it isn't considered in the same tier as them even in-game, since it's allowed in the battle frontier while they aren't (and used by Palmer as his ace). I think Regigigas is to be considered more in the same tier as the three other Regis, who are good but not insane too.
All of this to say that while I also disagree that Slow start has any link to the golem inspiration (the three other regis were also golems and didn't have slow start), I tend to believe that this ability is exclusively here to give Regigigas some unique gameplay flavor, to make it an "ancient titan slowly reawakening", isn't supposed to be percieved as a fatal flaw in the first place, and serves to make the Regigigas encounter a narratively engaging one, be it as Palmer's ace or as a legendary that you are supposed to catch (with a very low catch rate) instead of defeating. In this second case especially, your battle against it is going to last a lot more than 5 turns, so you are going to see it power up and start wrecking your team as you try again and again to get it to stay in a hyperball. At least in D/P, because in Platinum Regigigas being level 1 makes that encounter a formality... But even then I think it was done to emphasize the "weakened by an eternity of immobility" part of the narrative framing.
Finally, while it's true that graphics/narrative designers don't decide upon the balancing choices made by the game design team, Pokemon has always been a series where narration and gameplay work hand in hand, likely at a directorial level. The are a lot of instances where the specifics of an encounter, including a legendary pokemon's ability (see: Rayquaza's Air Lock) are only here to enforce a narrative point. I don't see why Regigigas couldn't be one of those instances.
Yeah you got pretty much every part right.
Regigigas did not learn Protect until gen 8.
regigigas didnt have protect til gen 8 iirc and its still bad game design. no matter what you say
@@_Rhatsody That doesn't really detract from the point that they might have thought the ability was ok and that's more likely than gamefreak trying to avoid people buying more games lol
It being good or bad game design isn't super relevant to this particular discussion too. (although I think not considering competitive viability isn't exactly bad game design)
It seems that this video creator doesn't understand the design philosophy of the Pokémon games. Many moves, typing, and abilities are connected to the source of inspiration for each species. Yes, game balance affects things, which is why Charizard and Gyarados aren't dragons, etc. But it really seems the designers have a lot more input than he seems to think is even possible.
I get what you're going for, but I disagree, and I feel like the comparison to Hetsu's gift in BotW doesn't really hold up. The reason it's useless isn't _just_ because of how tedius it is to get, there's more to it. The Korok seeds themselves were created as a way to flood all of hyrule with little puzzles, so that no matter where you went you would find something to do. They were made with the explicit purpose of being everywhere and inherent to the design was the idea that no player would find all of them, or even the majority of them (that's why you stop getting inventory upgrades partway through). But this led to the question of what happens when someone gets all the korok seeds anyway, since it was guaranteed that at least one player would. Hetsu's gift was made as a compromise: something to acknowledge the achievement even though players really shouldn't go through the trouble.
The problem with comparing this to Regigigas is that obtaining it never had to be this hard in the first place. The regi puzzle isn't this accident of some other design like the 900 Koroks were, it was something that gamefreak intentionally added. Every step of obtaining Regigigas was one they had full control over, and if they were really that worried about it they could've easily just changed the requirements to not involve the gen 3 regi puzzle. The BotW devs didn't want players collecting all 900 koroks but needed to have that many for the game design to work, that excuse doesn't make any sense for gamefreak because if they didn't want players doing the regi puzzle they wouldn't have put it in the game. They could've just had it awaken in some other way, or even had the other regis be in the game like they did for platinum, in an exclusive event where you're given Regigigas and that allows you to catch all three regis. (And then that brings up the issue of mythical pokemon which is like this whole other can of worms of pokemon far more exclusive and far stronger than Regigigas).
Additionally, for PLA there's other examples that go against the idea that they had to keep Regigigas bad to maintain it's identity. Snover and abomasnow have the identity of being the first hail setters with their exclusive ability snow warning. Weather as a mechanic still exists in that game and they even changed hail to snow, but the snover line still doesn't have the ability to set the weather like they used to. And then there's unown, a pokemon famous for being one of the worst and only knowning hidden power. Normally hidden power just does damage of a random type, but for this one game it was changed to always be a type that does super effective damage to the target. I'd argue this is a far more drastic change to the pokemon's identity than if Regigigas lost slow start.
Sorry for the big wall of text. I do respect your effort to rationalize gamefreak's decisions from a game design perspective. I just feel like 90% time that's not at all how they operate, lol.
They have to keep regigigas bad because at the end of the day it’s kind of an unnecessary Pokémon. It started as a cross-generational Easter egg in an already legendary-saturated game, and now it’s just even more unnecessary on top of all the other redundant monsters they keep having to add due to the Pokémon formula. Also, no one is really talking about how ugly it is (IMO)
@@floodedmoat2620 Isn't that kind of arbitrary though? Like you can say almost any new pokemon you don't like is unnecessary, there's nothing special about Regigigas that makes it more redundant than all the other gen 4 legendaries. And if there is a reason, _then it's probably the fact that it sucks in battle so why keep it that way?_
@@squiddler7731 But regigigas was special. Originally it required the regis from the gameboy games to even trigger the boss fight. It’s literally a secret boss fight with a redundant prize for completionists.
Also, regigigas isn’t nearly popular enough to buff for the newer games. Gen 1 giants like the legendary birds were given updated forms because they’re easily recognizable and a lot of people love them. Knowing the cost-cutting habits of these big game studios, the devs probably needed to cut as many corners as possible and only focus their resources on what would please the majority of fans. Buff old, popular legendaries only, and advertise the shiny new ones. Regigigas was likely an off the cuff Nintendo-ism that simply didn’t stick, and (fitting to the Pokémon’s lore) was totally forgotten to time, unaltered and clunky.
@@floodedmoat2620 But he wasn't forgotten, they went so far as to add two more regis in gen 8. And again, in legends arceus they went out of their way to implement slow start in a game that doesn't even have abilities. Literally the exact opposite of cutting corners, just to ensure it remains an awful pokemon in a game with no multiplayer battles to use it in.
@@squiddler7731 by cutting corners, I meant that there are a lot of different hoops to jump through to design a new mechanic or art asset for an already existing mon than there are to simply copy and paste it into your new game. Less bureaucracy and meetings that way, I guess (see the chain of command from this video). Laziness in implementation is the only real answer here.
A word of advice: don't disparage another person for disagreeing with you in your video. It makes you come off as petty and detracts from any points you make in your video as doing so turns it into a rant video instead of an informative one.
Speaking of the points made in your video, I have to disagree with them. As you said yourself, you don't know exactly how the inner workings of the Pokemon development team works, so lore could have a bigger impact on how things are implemented in-game than what you're used to. For example, the people who designed Regigigas could have just as easily insisted that, "Regigigas is a Pokemon that takes time to get going" and then the game designers decided how to implement that idea. That's still the lore influencing the design decision.
As an added note, I also disagree with your Korok seed analogy, but others have already described why it doesn't really work and I don't feel a need to repeat them.
Signature item:
Regigigas' Coffee
Upon attaching to Regigigas, this item is immediately used up in battle, negating Regigigas's Slow Start Ability for the remainder of the battle, even if Regigigas is switched out.
Coffee wouldn't do it for Regigigas, a maybe Perk 30 or some DMT
@@graysamagaming9606some tren
Considering we have LOADS of pokemon that got signature items, both in the earlier days and especially in these later days, especially to legendaries which conviently give them massive ROID boosts, it might as well be one-upped to replace slow start with a unique version of huge power, where it gets a 1.5x attack boost, a very large critical boost and its max hp stat increases by a %, at the cost of its item slot and said item can not be removed at all.
Its already become way too engrained on how necessary held items for the more `high level gameplay` scene, so giving Regigigas its own version of a Elemental plate or Dialga/Palkia/Giratina`s own orb would make sense.
Especially for it to be VERY O.P. since its not just simply granting a powerful boon, but also needs to counter-act a penalty, by doing something akin to matching its `lore reasons` of being a continent shaker.
I mean we already got crap like a certain pair of catfish & `sushi feesh` that combine into a broken mass and even a bunch of recent legendaries that just slash massive stat values by a large chunk. With the two most recent `DLC face legendaries` being so broken as fk in the mechanics that they continue the trend since sword/shield of a legendary getting to have more then one hidden ability and/or a signature move with an extra unique mechanic to make it even more of a unhinged cheesing whore-biscuit of a move.
I mean, being able to apply confusion whenever you poison a pokemon, being able to have 4 different type combinations while also getting different abilities & even stat bonuses by invoking that game`s gimmick and even just straight up making yourself into a finger flip against the game`s core mechanic to introduce an entirely extra mechanic that likely just allow mon`s to be more generalist FK-YOU cards depending on the use case.
Slow start doesnt lower both offensive stats, just physical attack and speed, its why regigigas is quite a menace in OMs where it gets a special attack stat
Do you mean Godly Gift where it can get the Base Spacial Attk of a Legendary like:Kyogre,Palkia,Dialga etc...?
@@MasterSword0001 I was thinking of Reversed, but godly gift works too
Watching this video I am just realizing that it's the same reason why the Starf Berry is so bad. If it was good, locking a good competitive, one time only item behind such a long and tedious task would be absolutely horrible from a game design perspective, but by making it bad, it's just a trophy!
But there are tons of good Pokemon (Hidden Abilities, IVs, & Egg Moves count) and items locked behind tons of tedious and difficult gameplay.
The video is just wrong.
We know from at least a few interviews that the Pokémon creation process can come from various departments, from designers wanting more Pokémon of X Type for a Region, to artists wanting to design a Pokémon around a specific creature, to mandates from above (publishers and stakeholders, like when TPC told GF to make Gen 2 designs that would be easier to turn into plushies) and more.
I think the disconnect lies here: while the art team almost certainly didn't just have "Regigigas should have an Ability that halves Attack and Speed for the first 5 turns it is out" among the specs it handled to the other department(s), and that instead being a decision made by the design team, I don't think anyone, not even the guy from the video you cited (which, tbf, I haven't watched yet) is stating that was the case; instead, the "other side" is just saying that someone on the team had the *general idea* of making the Regi boss start out weaker and then grow stronger as the battle progressed in reference to the golems' mythology and then the design team decided on the *specifics* of how to achieve that.
For the record, I do think that looking at this sort of thing with a designer mindset first is generally the better approach, because it's more common for design to influence other elements (and be influenced by programming limitations) than the other way around, but I think the latter is far from being exceedingly rare (especially for decisions made at a high level) and therefore it shouldn't' be a point made with the absolutism you came across in the first part of this video, imo, especially with legendaries, in the case of Pokémon, where lore is often one of the main considerations they have in mind when starting the design process.
I can confirm back in 2006 (not 2002, what matters is when gen 4 released) the Regis puzzle was common knowledge. Even with non-english sources.
It was a cool puzzle, but finding the solution online wasn't hard at all
That's so wrong, when I was a kid and played R/S/Em, I didn't even know that was a puzzle and just ignored the sidequest completely
If you didnt had internet, it wasnt common knowledge.
@@Evilriku13 even without internet the answer could be found in the many gaming magazines published at the time
There was a brail language alphabet in the manual that came with purchasing the game. Buying the game legitimately GAVE you the answer.
@@sharanmanivannan6677 you played all 3?
To me it seems inappropriate to say that story and character design have close to zero influence on game design decisions.
Yes I have watched the whole video, I acknowledge the explanation that Regigigas is supposed to be a trophy and is designed in a way to not force players to spend money and time trying to get a genuinely useful pokemon, and I totally agree with this conclusion,
In fact with this comment I am not trying to argue that regigigas was given the slow start ability because doing so was required by the writing team or anything like that,
However in this same video you showed an example of how much influence writing and character design decisions can have on the game design team, the fact that Mimiku was required to showcase the animation of the head tilting clearly had the game designers consider how they could implement that, but the influence likely doesn’t stop there, because it’s very possible, probable even, that the game design team was inspired by the fact that Mimiku was clearly intended to be pretending to be something it’s not and to be hiding under something, and this inspiration ended up resulting in the decision of giving to Mimiku an ability that reduces the impact of the first attack received and then activates the animation in question, breaking the disguise.
Again I’m not trying to say that Mimiku was given the disguise ability precisely because it is disguising as a Pikachu, I’m saying that the character design and story traits of Mimiku likely have inspired in some way the game designers and therefore have had some form of not negligible influence over the game designing process.
Given that I didn’t work on the design of these Pokemon I cannot prove in any way that what I described actually happened, but even if it didn’t happen for Mimiku, or if it didn’t happen to Regigigas, maybe it happened for Delmise or Tatsugiri; to me it seems highly improbable for this to never happen, it rather seems like something that would happen with great frequency, and therefore I believe it is overly dismissive to claim that character design and writing have very little influence on the game design process.
Maybe what I’m talking about was considered exceedingly obvious during the scripting process and therefore it was deemed sufficient to just vaguely imply that there is some influence by never outright stating that there’s no influence whatsoever, if that’s the case this comment has the purpose of expressing that I personally didn’t find this type of influence exceedingly obvious and that I wasn’t able to notice such implications.
Other than that this was a cool video :)
There was a disclaimer that this was based on his personal experience, but apart from a little too strongly reinforce his point, the gist of it was "game designers are under no obligation to enforce the writing and the lore."
There's a few reasons for that, usually balance, other times because it's an exception to other rules that just doesn't make sense for its purpose in the game. Stepping away from Pokemon for example, XCOM is actually one of the worst offenders of just.. ignoring their own lore. "Alien invasion? Dozens if not hundreds of soldiers? Send in one four man squad."
TV tropes I think has a running list of both sides of the issue. One for when game devs segregate gameplay and story. One for when they integrate them together. Sometimes games are on both lists. There can be a number of reasons for this, stated in both this video and the other one mentioned for Lore Accuracy and Gameplay Balance, and both videos make excellent points for those cases.
But lets also not forget the most important reason these might be separated that these two did not cover, as every veteran Tabletop Player would know all too well.
Sometimes, the Lore is fine and you try to do it. But it jusssst doesn't work out well mechanically. Whether you're running a Boss who dies turn one, or a PC who just rolls really, really poorly.
On that bit about forcing players to spend time on money for useful Pokémon… this is the same generation that spiritomb was introduced. Landorus also came right after in gen 5 which requires either trading for someone else’s legendary or playing another file of (mostly) the same game and buying another console. I would say that’s a larger barrier and it’s for one of the best Pokémon in its generation.
A lot of Pokémon are restricted to trade or buying another console+game, just look at version exclusives. Sure regigigas required a different gen of game but at the time you could play those games on the same console anyway. This is a much smaller paywall assuming you didn’t already own one of them.
While I agree with you about most things, and I can see these reasons being the ones GameFreak had, I think there's a distinction to be made with PLA: it's set in the distant past, it could have been justifiable to see Regigigas in its prime.
Sure that's a writing decision and you say that doesn't influence game balance and design, but ideally writing and design should complement each other. They could've just changed Regigigas's purpose within PLA specifically to a neat post game reward from funny meme Pokemon and it could've been satisfying to fans because they want to see Regigigas being strong...afterall, why else are there so many videos about people being frustrated with Regigigas? PLA was the one opportunity where they could have abandoned Slow Start and still have Regigigas align with the fans' perception of it as a Pokemon that's terrible normally, that could be good without its ability. PLA isn't player vs player, so the viability of Regigigas in PLA wouldn't impact its viability in the main series meta
I think different characters can serve a different purpose in different games. Having Regigigas as purposefully bad to not make the average player upset about missing out, to keeping it bad for the meme in the main series is fine and I'm okay with that...but I just don't think that works in PLA where so many other things are different. Especially since it's set in ancient times
Even more when you consider you HAVE to catch Regigigas to progress the post game story
"Distant" is a relative term here. PLA's events only happened about 150 years before the events of the other games, around the Pokemon world's equivalent of the 1860's. Keep in mind, not only do they have photography, but Professor Laventon and the Galaxy Expedition Team treat Poke Balls as a relatively recent invention; In-universe, Poke Balls were invented around 200 years ago in Johto.
As such, Regigigas would still have been dormant for ages, meaning it wouldn't really be "in its prime" at that point, either.
@@TheEmeraldWeirdo I suppose you're right...which makes me think it would be neat to see Regigigas in its true prime somehow, if PLA is still too recent
@@regojozsa
Could see it in an ancient-set pokemon war game. Maybe during the time of the pokemon kaiju from the 1st season of pokemon.
@@TheEmeraldWeirdo tbh the game could have made the fact that its events take place in a “relatively not so distant past” era a lot more clear. Barely anyone payed attention to jotto’s tidbit about the approximate invention date of the pokeball since having a reference of time before the Pokemon equivalent of modern day didn’t really matter back when jotto was still mainstream relevant, remember that the 4th gen was the last we saw of the actual region itself for a long while. not helping the confusing time frame is the technological incongruence the game shows in comparison to the actual era it is supposed to take place in as, outside the items brought into the past due to space-time rift shenanigans, the only thing that could suggest a “more recent than you’d think” era is the pokeball itself, a fact that many players would interpret as an exception rather than as an indicator of time.
TLDR, gamefreak should just tell us this crap outright instead of relying on games, that they no longer resell (admittedly due to Nintendo being as backwards as the government of its country of birth because, “MY IPS!!!! IF I LET A SINGLE NON-DIRECTLY ENDORSED INSTANCE OF MY IPS BEING USED SLIP BY, MY COMPANY IS DOOMED!!!!!”), to fill in the large blank with one or two dialogue boxes that may not even be required to be seen to beat the game to tell us this.
I'm surprised no one in the comments (that I've seen) has pointed out one glaring factual error: getting Regigigas never required getting a second console, unless you had a DSi (which was released during Gen5). All versions of the DS before the DSi natively play GBA games.
For that matter, Pokédex completion in Gen 3 was much, much more expensive, as it required 7 games and two consoles.
Easy fix, give Regigigas a Hidden Ability that's literally useless in combat (like maybe it finds free money at the end of a victory battle idk) and hide it behind a sidequest
Or introduce a Held Item which disables its user's ability
Regigigas keeps its legacy identity, but now with a little extra work it becomes actually viable
Weezing in Generation 8 proves that Regigigas is a pokemon actually worth using with literally no ability at all, it wouldn't be OP but at least it would be _something_
We have had an amazing pokemon in lore and design for 20 years that has been kept from us by an actively detrimental ability, it's about time they let us have this
I mean, you could already make Regigigas work in DPPt's Double Battles in Gen 4. Similar to Slacking, you just needed to Skill Swap its ability out then have the swapper fall back (or swap it again to an opponent).
Imagine a Regigigas with Tinted Lens, Filter, Serene Grace or Chlorophyll. Kinda scary, right? If you were feeling funky, you could even give him Levitation, Thick Fat or Aftermath!
From Gen 5 onward, one of Regigigas' Double Battles best friend is Espeon, since it can Skill Swap Magic Bounce and is reasonably fast. I'll let you imagine how an unbriddled Regigigas with near immunity to non-damaging moves can wreck the enemy team in no time.
It can get countered, and is less instantaneous than the Gen 8 Weezing combo, sure. But it's not particularly hard to setup, and some would argue that it's better, since you can swap out Regi's teammate AND he gets access to a useful ability.
If Skill Swap was not an option, Worry Seed or Gastro Acid could also do the job in Gen 4. I'm sure a few more options exist now.
So to say Regigigas had always been useless is not quite true. It certainly hasn't ever been meta and is still reliant on Double Battles, so yeah, its usability is narrower than most other 'mons, but it was still possible to make Regigigas great in nearly every generation it's been part of. Despite being a voluntarily nerfed reward 'mon.
An item that suppresses a 'mon's ability would be interesting tho. New Slacking meta when?
@tapirdebain True, though to be entirely fair, Regigigas with Skill Swap is pretty predictable. One enemy with Prankster Taunt or Fake Out can put a stop to that, and the moment you see Regigigas and Espeon on Team Preview you know that's what they're going for.
The issue isn't that Regigigas is literally unusable, it's that you always have to do this weird song and dance just to make it work. Heck, I've even played with Baton Pass Swords Dance Regigigas to let it start out with better Attack, and Regigigas is absolutely terrifying with that set (not to mention the sheer power of Weezing being able to disable Slow Start absolutely free)
All I'm really saying is that Regigigas really deserves better at this point. Heck, even Defeatist would be more useful on Regigigas as a hidden ability.
@@emilygordbort7300 That's very true, tho I'd argue that a smart player can take advantage of that predictability and bait a fake out for Regigigas to get a free hit (or a thunder wave), which should still hurt a bit despite Slow Start.
Moreover, if its partner has Magic Bounce indeed, it can't be Taunted until after the Skill Swap. *It's too late by then.*
With that said, that's fair, having to do this everytime you want to use Regigigas seriously is tedious, and is only still a thing because Gigas has always been the Slow Start guy.
While I wouldn't remove it outright, both your propositions of having a new hidden ability or an item that suppresses a mon's ability have merits, and I could definitely see something like this in-game, if only GF/TPC started investing in their games again.
Honestly, I'm I wasn't completely sold on the idea that this was a near-strict gameplay decision.
Contrary to what the video says, you don't need 2 game consoles. A DS will suffice. It will play GBA games.
And looking at it from a gameplay standpoint, Regigigas wouldn't have needed to be so awful to get if the developers simply placed the other Regis in gen 4 proper.
So, consider me not sold on the gameplay argument.
However, I think Legelds Arceus actually debunks the story element. Regigigas was apparently supposed to be a force to be reckoned withh in the distant past. Legends Arceus is in the distant past. This would be the perfect opportunity to demonstrate what a force he was. And yet, he's still terrible.
The conclusion I'm left with is that somebody in marketing was insistent that there be a Pokemon that rewards the cross-gen features of the game, and the gameplay team decided it has to be not something players would be upset about missing.
PLA is set in the recent past, not distant, regigigas was already sealed in the temple probably for a long time
@@rass4375pretty sure if you transfer a Pokémon from pla to another game it says it’s from the distant past. Kinda semi-confirms pla was indeed the distant past.
@@THGMR-ox7sd I'd say that's the problem of saying just the distant past and not like a specific time because well if something is set in the "distant past" and another thing mentions the "distant past" it gets to the point of how much more distant is the past compared to this one lol ... Also regigigas was apparently around moving *continents* and like Hisui is def more like maybe industrial revolution? (Don't quote me on dat remember watching a video about finding out the equivalent era the legends Arceus was based on and I think it said that.) And well the industrial revolution was still a long time ago
@@THGMR-ox7sd "distant past" is a relative term. We know for a fact that at the time of lpa regigigas was already sealed and people do not know about him. I don't remember if it was ever stated who built snow point temple, that would be a big hint to when regigigas was free
@@rass4375 I stand corrected. It looks like it was about 150 years ago.
Regigigas' body is indeed not ready
@GoldenOwlYT Have you ever looked at Watsonian vs. Doylist analysis? They are terms that started in the Sherlock Holms fandom to describe internal (Dr. Watson being the in-universe narrator of Sherlock Holms stories) and external (Sir Arthur Conan Doyle being the author of Sherlock Holms stories).
The video you mention dealing with the lore is a more (but not strictly) Watsonian analysis, while your videos are very strictly Doylist.
I feel one thing being overlooked here is that regigas is also a sequel pokemon, adding onto the pre established regi's from the past game, while we will never know exactly what happened behind the scenes to develop regigigas, but it makes sense to me that in revisiting the original inspiration for the golems that the designers wanted regigas to at least start out weak and ramp up in battle, the exact mechanics of slow start though obviously would've been set by the mechanical design team, either going off of a request for it to need to ramp up, or maybe even the reverse was true. It could be the developers wanted a bonus reward for people who played the previous games and solved the regi puzzles because this was the first new generation with transfer capability since gen 3 was a hard cutoff before so they wanted a reward for legacy players to make them feel rewarded, so drafted teh gameplay concept for a legendary similar to the regis but made bad on purpose to not alienate new players, and sent a request to the design team for something that fit this gameplay concept. The point I'm trying to make is that while most of the visual and storytelling aspects and gameplay mechanics are usually made separately as said in this video, regigias has enough unique factors to be kinda a special case where there could easily have been some overlap.
I think this is correct to a degree, but it makes no sense to me since the reward for completing the pokedex was a certificate in game that was printable if i remember right, so why did regigigas have to be a horrible prize when we already had a horrible prize, they could have made regigigas decent, and kept the horrible prize the certificate.
Your explanation of art/concept and game design itself being distinct elements in the overall game-making process is sound, and I can believe it’s knowledge backed by experience.
The way you describe them hierarchically, however…
I can agree with it on principle, in the sense that it would be the best way to organize game development, the final say should always be with the teams involved with creating the mechanics themselves.
But in all good conscience, it seems quite evident that Regigigas proves the rule through its existence as a rare exception.
I’m not saying that the concept designers somehow hold total sway over how Regigigas works, but the unknown factors keeping the design team from making revisions/buffs to Regigigas simply can’t all be attributed to erudite concerns of game balance. Assuming, that is, that we don’t entertain the idea of there being a sustained and directed strain of malicious incompetency/neglect toward Regigigas.
We definitely can think of some reasonable justifications for why Regigigas hasn’t been buffed. For example, an ability cancelling held item would just break Slaking, and you’d imagine it would be pretty laughable if it were a dedicated, Regigigas-exclusive item. So just change the ability itself, right? Right??
Well, they haven’t. The only way I can imagine why is that they are, to some degree, hamstrung for reasons outside of their jurisdiction.
Players: "Oh, I see! Slow Start is to establish Regigigas' identity as a forgotten titan, sleeping for so long that it takes time to reach even a fraction of it's power! Like the lore implies!"
GoldenOwl: "Lore? You think they did it because of LORE?!?! You think they went through ALL through that for lore?! That has to be the stupidest, small brained, click-baited, ignorant, shallow, and flimsiest way to POSSIBLY see it. Oh mah gawd. How can you guys be this dumb? Do you honestly think lore has ANY influence about the game's design? Do you think something so banal and insignificant can influence the way a game is made? Lore?! Really?! Let me use this *Professional* experience I have in the industry and tell you why you're wrong for over HALF the video's runtime!"
Players: "Oh. So...what's the reason it's not lore?"
GoldenOwl: "Oh it's because that's it's identity now."
Ah, my favorite Poketuber works his magic again and annoys me enough to actually get me to sign in *just* to comment! At this point, I feel like the theme of "Oh it's okay since it's bad on purpose!" has become a staple of your channel. Well. Except for your UI/UX video, where the UI actually being bad *was* good, but you said it was just plain bad.
Yes, we know *why* something is bad, but that doesn't mean its existence is welcome or enriches our experiences with the game in a positive way.
Like. WHY have Regigigas at all? It's in a completely different generation than the original trio, which in of themselves are enough of a reward. To add as an extra reward for the rewards you already have? But the reward is bad on purpose? So it's not a reward? If it's like the Golden Poop then it is, in fact, a passive aggressive statement from the developers saying that the player missed the entire point of the system and should feel dumb for doing so, no? But the system being engaged with is fundamentally different than the convoluted one from Gen 3? Huh? I'm at a complete loss here.
And Pokemon designing something so players don't feel bad for not buying enough of the games? Are we talking about the same series here? The one that came in two versions since Day 1? The one where we had to buy entire peripherals to get our critters? The one that put Jirachi as a pre-order bonus on the Gamecube? The one that's making us pay to keep our Pokemon on life support in the cloud or be deleted forever? That series? Pokemon? You sure?
At this point, the channel feels like being an apologist for devs making questionable decisions and how players are, in fact, dumb and wrong for not praising them. The first video about Onix was super interesting! But at this point, I'm not learning anything new or interesting; I'm just getting annoyed about how much this bird speaks to me in a condescending tone while making me wait and wait for its actual point to drop, only for the point to be a wet noodle that is arguably *worse* than what we thought the reason was in the first place.
Please, I just want the Inside Baseball look into the *hidden* parts of a game that makes them *cool* rather than the obvious ones that make us feel bad.
fully agree + bashing another guy for 5 mins just bc of a lire focussed vid is poor form as well
Man, I see why he makes this video now, because people still have misconceptions about game design. I mean I can tell that you don’t know shit about game design by the calling the Zelda side quest passive aggressive. Is making very tough enemies by going the wrong way in Fallout passive aggressive? No it’s not, it is meant to guide the player to where the developers want.
“At this point, the channel feels like being an apologist for devs making questionable decisions and how players are dumb and wrong”
Yeah sounds like he’s really taking in that business school education😂
@@garbagelmao2730 I’m referring to the idea that they needed a completion bonus but also make people not want to miss out with Zelda. Would you rather someone get no completion bonus for getting all of the Korok seeds?
Im at 12:27
the purpose of regigigas was to be Palmer's ace or to be the only legendary with crazy stats that can be used in the battle frontier
Funny seeing this, a forum I'm on had someone spend several days arguing that Regigigas having slow start is one the worst creative decisions ever last week.
We've also reached the point where trying to figure out ways to use Regigigas even with Slow Start is a thing people do. It's become a challenge. And I've seen at least one fakemon that was a Sibling for Regigigas that went with "Really strong for the first five turns of a battle, but then gets weak."
Honestly, they should add some way to change Regigigas's ability, like, I dunno, a side quest, or an item, or hell, have a hidden ability that's only accessible once Regigigas is with a trainer
I imagine such an ability might be called "Burnout". Would have to be battle-long so you can't just swap out pokemon to reset the counter.
The idea that the ability could not be lore related because they're made by different departments is nonsense and it's debunked by many pokemon, some example given in this exact video (slaking, wishiwashi). They are not given exact instructions of course, but that doesn't mean that they couldn't have a general direction to follow or didn't get inspired to do so on their own.
EDIT: seen the pinned comment. Still you do not provide enough proof that regigigas ability's choice is not lore based. It's full of mythicals that aren't really good and are basically collectables. What's the point of making a strong Pokémon then nerf it with the ability? The lore explanation explains that, yours does not
As many already said, you are not supposed to get all korok's seeds, so the comparison does not make sense.
One small but important imprecision is that you said you need to transfer the regis from rse to get regigigas. No, you need to OWN the regis. If one kid had the regis (that could be transferred using a single console in dual slot mode), they could be lended from one kid to another. We see a similiar reasoning again il later games with kyogre and groudon for Rayquaza in hgss, thundurus ans tornadus for landorus (big difference though is that they're version exclusives). Consider that D&P are the first games with online trade.
Another detail is that regigigas is a movie legendary and was distributed by events. Maybe we were supposed to get the single regis to unlock the event but it was scrapped because it was deemed too difficult (see the azure flute in the same games)
I feel like the point about not making him too strong because of the requirements to obtain them may be right. The problem is that it clearly cannot be the sufficient cause. Think about Manaphy. In the same games, it also requires to own a different game to obtain it. Despite that, it's still a good Pokémon, with 600 base stats total and no significant drawbacks. I'd say it's even worse, because at least gen 3 games are also needed to complete the national dex, whereas Manaphy needs an entire different game.
I think this video suffers too much from trying to prove a point. You could have made a showcase of how game freak managed to follow lore and possibly inspiration while keeping attention to game balance. Instead you kinda made a mess trying to prove that you were the only one right while bringing really weak or contradicting evidence.
Basically you're missing one point: why should he be that strong to begin with? The original trio have a 580 BST. They could have made him 600 BST as most mythicals and pseudos.
If slow start is really for balancing reasons, then the only answer to the question is lore. I can't understand why you treat them as being exclusive to one another.
@@rass4375 Uhh Ho-oh?
@@yungmuney5903 ?
@@yungmuney5903what do you mean?
I think a lore accurate Regigigas was fine upon its initial generation. But it is numerous generations removed from that original design. Many Pokemon, items, and moves have been altered to fit a game balance standpoint.
As much fun as it for Regigigas to have more staying power in the back of players' minds, that is not enough to get people to use it in any capacity.
The novelty of Slow Start has definitely faded and the Pokemon will stay an obscure pick. I think it's time to fix Regigigas.
Either give him an alternate form, edit the ability, or give him an attack that interacts with Slow Start in some way that assists in removing the penalties or its longevity. 5 turns without swapping out is simply too much.
You have not watched the video,clearly. The design philosophy behind Regiggas not being lore but something different is the point of the video.
@@Lily-sh8jn I legitimately watched the video and then made this opinion. Rambling for 11 minutes about how it's not lore and instead a trophy, and then Gamefreak keep it that way after that for future generations and then apply those same restrictions in Arceus for a boss fighting is the same as establishing that game mechanic and turning it into lore for the Pokemon.
Whether it was the initial concept or not, it has remained that way because that is the perception that was established upon its first release. The gameplay became the lore.
If slow start worked as an omni stat drop that wore off over time it probably wouldn't make Regigigas that bad. Slaking has a hinderance ability but it works with it.
At some point the game design just seems annoying. He's so crippled that the work around are expected and get immediately shut down if you try it.
Look at poor Onix.Dude was built as an early boss and has never been fixed to at least be a slow growing useful member. Making a useless Pokemon just becomes insulting at some point.
i mean they gave onix a great evo and a mega lol
@@MegamanStarforce2010yeah but they’re locked by a trade evolution. If you want one but can’t get it, too bad.
Onix itself hasn’t gotten much.
@@THGMR-ox7sdHere's hoping they eventually just delete trade evolutions from the games and do the Legends Arceus thing of just being the special items (at the very least we've had no more new trade evolutions since Gen 7's Alolan Graveller)
@@THGMR-ox7sdYep. Imagine growing up on the anime, Johto is your first games, and finding out the cool rock snake hits like a marshmallow and you can't evolve it without someone else.
I was thinking that it could like be a -12 (reverse Belly Drum) to ATK/SPA and then just do a stat increase for them each turn.
I still think Regigigas can have some competitive viability while sticking true to its nature. My proposal for a modern implementation of Slow Start would be to keep it as it is, except _don't_ make the turn counter reset when you switch out. Instead of being completely useless in all but the most unlikely favorable circumstances, Regigigas is now useable, but the player using it still has to find not just one, but _five_ entire separate opportunities to get Regigigas in safely over the course of an entire battle in order to be able to use it at full power, at which point it may have already taken significant damage and may even have been hindered by a status ailment if the player wasn't careful. Just as you have to go out of your way to obtain Regigigas, you now have to go out of your way to make it work in battle, thereby retaining its theme.
That is a very good idea that many people have said before.
@@THGMR-ox7sdyeah. I've been seeing this for years. I thought I was the only one at first. Amazing how so many people came up with the same simple idea that GF is never gonna listen to.
It is still 5 turns of deadweight, which is massive both in VGC and singles, and you have to commit moveslots just to ensure Regigigas can survive the 5 turns. With only 1or maybe 2 slots you can dedicate to attacking, it likely can still be walled effectively (assuming it has any health left) and you are better off using a bulky strong hitter Pokemon right from the start.
Unless you give Regigigas Recover, which could be funny, why not.
Or just give it clear body, its nature is that its a trio master, so who cares about slow start?
I REALLY love this idea. Regigigas basically turns into Alfred Hitchcock's Bomb Theory: the Pokemon.
Every time you send out Regigigas, it's both a curse and a blessing. Curse because Regigigas has to possibly take a hit in the process, but blessing because it both establishes to your opponent what you're thinking. Regigigas at full power hits like a BATTLESHIP, so they REALLY don't want that to happen and are encouraged to take it out as quickly as they can.
Only problem is that 1: you have only 5 turns of wimp Regigigas. 2: since this is competitive, expect Pokemon to be swapped around A LOT. So if you're about to use a Ghost move on the opponent, they could just switch in Regigigas. You wasted both a Slow Start turn and a chance to really hurt Regigigas. And 3: once the 5 turns are up, the "bomb" explodes and can't reset. You're stuck against a surprisingly quick Pokemon that can punch a brand new crater.
TLDR; this change makes Regigigas the tied-to-the-train-tracks villain cliche. Yeah there's a chance to escape and it's easy to see coming, but if you don't escape it in time, *YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY GOING TO DIE.*
Just so it's known revaroom can now also get slow start as a hidden ability. Out of ant pokenon it does fit a car pretty well
21:55 Game freak has made several buffs to Regigias movepool to counter its ability on modern day (of course that is still not enough to keep up with the power creep tho) like giving it access to protect and giving it several support moves so you can use it as a tanky support rather than having to find workarounds to its ability
But the thing is, in this current day and age, even if Regigigas had no ability at all, it's stats aren't even all that good anymore to justify having a detrimental ability. At least Archeops and Slaking are regular pokemon that would easily be able to steamroll most of their games without them.
*my ass using my friend's action replay to cheese regigigas circa 2007*
No. The Korok quest doesn't require you to collect them all for different reasons. BotW is a open world game, and so the designers wanted you to be able to acquire all the game's upgrades without having to find every last Korok. To that end they added what are effectively extra Koroks so that regardless of what route the player took, they'd have the opportunity to collect enough for all the upgrades. Pokémon's situation is the exact opposite. Where BotW needed a reward in case the player did decide to get all the Koroks, Pokémon invented a collection goal that had no prior precedent.
The explanation assumes that Regigigas needed to exist in the first place, which it didn't. The designers chose to include a Pokémon as the reward when they could have made it an item. The necessity of the boss being a new Pokémon isn't required either, as it could have just as easily been a powerful trainer like GSC's Red. The necessity of bringing the Regi's from another game, rather than making them available in Sinnoh, or simply not requiring them to obtain Regigigas also goes unexplained. Furthermore, this video also did nothing to explain why Slow Start was specifically chosen to be Regigigas's ability, as opposed to any other negative ability. When you asked me why Regigigas had Slow Start, I (apparently wrongfully) assumed that the question was about Slow Start. I thought about how it was a very Pokémon way of making a boss with multiple phases. It creates an interesting dynamic between defeating the boss as quickly as possible, versus spending the extra turns trying to catch it. Instead, the video spent much of its runtime complaining about another person's video that actually answered the questions it set out for itself.
I agree with you. I also felt the video was quite underwhelming, and I also thought about a battle that gets harder the longer you spend time on it.
“a collection goal that had no prior precedent”
completing the Pokédex has been an optional goal in literally every single Pokemon game. completing it gives you an in-game certificate that does nothing. in Sword/Shield it allows you to catch more shinies, which is still functionally aesthetic. if completing your Pokédex doubled the damage you deal in battle, people would feel obligated to get it, turning it into a tedious and annoying chore for those who had no interest and just want increased damage. making it optional places the fun in the quest itself rather than the reward.
@@hash8169 I wasn't referring to the PokéDex, but rather how the cross gen method of unlocking Regigigas worked.
No. The Breath of the Wild example was perfectly acceptable, and completing the Pokédex has always been optional, same with catching Regigigas. You don't NEED to catch it at all if you don't want to.
@@Goro_Maj1ma You seem to be missing my point, so let me explain again. Breath of the Wild has more Koroks than what the player needs to get all of the upgrades. This is because if they only had the exact amount required it would be far more tedious trying to find the last ones you need in such a huge map. Because of that, they added extras so that any functional rewards aren't gated from the player. Each Korok is functionally interchangable, so it doesn't matter which ones the player finds. Then they added that final trophy to fill the negative possibility space left by having more Korok seeds so that the few people who would strive to collect them all could feel accomplished, but still make it clear that it isn't something expected of most players.
This is entirely dissimiliar to Regigigas as Regigigas doesn't solve any designer issue by being optional. They aren't interchangable with other Pokémon and do not provide any additional flexibility on how the game is played since they are a secret boss. They were purposefully added, and if they were left out of the game entirely, their absence would not have been felt by the players. Because of the way they require catching the other Regis in a different game first (the unprecedented collection goal I was referring to, not the PokéDex), most players will never even be aware that they were in the game at all, making Regigigas worth less as gameplay content.
From what was said about Legends Arceus keeping Regigigas ability in a game without abilities. Technically something similar was done to gen 2 shuckle. If you made it hold a berry it would turn into berry juice being a prototype of an ability before gen 3. Being an ability along the lines of ball fetch, pick up or honey gather
I'll be frank, I don't like this. Was there a reason to go after another youtuber who doesn't even specialize in game design? That's youtube drama behavior and I don't like seeing it in random videos. Plus, it comes off slightly elitist to me, ala "he hasn't studied game design, so why would he talk about it?". It also doesn't make it any easier for you, because I expected some big revelation after this, bigger expectations than usual. You could have made the same point without mentioning any specific person because the idea that it must be lore reasons is rather wide-spread.
Plus, some other points:
- Pokemon hasn't shied away from "pay to win mechanics" before. The box legendaries themselves end up being pay to win mechanics when they are eventually allowed in VGC near the end of a generation.
- something being low-level does not communicate "this is useless" in an RPG. It still has 99 levels to grow. I don't know about you, but I actually feel compelled to level up something if it comes at lv1
- the notion that "game design doesn't care about the lore" feels... off? Don't get me wrong, you probably know what you are talking about since you work in the field (and I don't, I'm an illustrator/graphic designer) but for Pokemon specifically, too many pokemon have game mechanics that seem directly influenced by their design and lore. Smeargle, Kyogre, Groudon, Komala, Minior just to name a few. I'm sure the design of how exactly they play out in gameplay was decided on by the game designers, but to say "they don't care" about the lore seems overly dismissive, when in Pokemon (again, to emphasize this franchise specifically) they seem to mix constantly.
He probobly was supposed to be a timed boss trying to make the players weaken and catch it before he could get his stats back up and reck them
My guess is to be a test of patience for the player. If they can manage to keep Regigigas in battle for a long enough amount of time, then they deserve to be rewarded with this power.
Edit: Now that I know the real answer (no spoilers!), I have a theory. I think Regigigas was designed from a gameplay standpoint first, and when the ability was decided upon, the lore was later written to explain WHY it has such an awful ability.
I do partially agree with your point (if indeed lore doesn't factor into the Reig's Slow Start), especially for general balance in favor of the lack of access this mon once had. I do think one way of seeing Regi (and it didn't really come to mind until watching this video) is that Regi is more akin to a legit boss fight. An extremely difficult one to actually trigger, but in essence, it's a very large and intimidating opponent with enormous stats that could easily squash most casual players. However, putting a delay on the boss' pure power gives players the opportunity to whittle down its health and get ready to catch it before it starts going on a rampage as you desperately chuck ultra and timer balls at it. One could almost think of it as the closest thing to a wild Pokemon boss with 2 phases (at least for the time).
Pausing to answer your question: I always just assumed that the reason the Legendary with the same BST as box legendaries has a bad ability is so that they can justify making it usable in the Battle Tower/Frontier. Since the Tower Tycoon in Gen 4's team consists of Sinnoh legendaries in his final battle (Cresselia, Heatran, and Regigigas). This is also likely the reason Cresselia is available in the game but Darkrai is event only - despite being a duo that not only are made for each other lore wise but also mechanics wise - since they wanted to give whatshisface a defensive Sinnoh legendary to use to round out his team and unlike the birds, beasts, Regis, and Lati's that were used in the Emerald Battle Frontier, it would be kind of plot breaking if he randomly had an Azelf, Uxie, or Mesprit in the same game that those mons are important.
So as a result, Regigigas is made bad to fit Battle Frontier restrictions, Cresselia is made a normal roaming legendary instead of a mythical like its other half, and I would assume Heatran was built from the ground up to be more in line with the other Frontier/Tower-legal legendaries. All so that you get the experience of battling whatshisface and going "Oh shit".
only flaw i saw was the claim of needing another consol for gigas. the OG DS has a GBA slot and in system transfer for RSE
My argument has always been that Regigigas is designed to be a unique kind of boss fight. Due to being so over leveled when you encounter it, it is supposed to present a potential threat that escalates the longer you fight it. Crush Grip whittles you down at first and if you haven't caught it I'm 5 turns, then it'll steamroll you once its attack and speed are at normal levels. It always bugged me that people never stop to consider these Pokémon abilities from the perspective of PVE because even if I wrong, I can speculate beyond claiming the devs simply wanted Regigigas to be bad
Edit: I didn't realize that the one in D/P doesn't learn Crush grip until level 75
This in completely false. Game designers definitely listen to character designers to make sure the way they play in game matches lore. They bounce off of each other. It goes both ways. Also look at slaking- it was needed in a similar fashion. Slaking isn’t a reward for insane work. Regigigas was designed top to bottom based on lore- same goes with every Pokémon. You don’t understand game design if you can’t grasp that.
Yeah, I watched a video once that mentioned that although inconsistencies would sometimes crop up due to different employees not all having the same ideas, the lead dev (I forgot his name) set a rule that a pokemon can't have a move that specifically mentions a body part in its name if the pokemon doesn't have that body part.
For example, a pokemon without claws can potentially have Slash because claws aren't the only way you can slash someone but a pokemon like Voltorb can't learn a move like Iron Tail because you can plainly see that it has no tail.
Nah, games are games first and foremest and therefore have to abide to the reality of creating a good game and cannot always listen to the lore, because that is in big franchises espeically never always possible.
The hierachy is that the bosses and lead directors decide the course and everyone else listens to them, why else does the term IP exist and why else do get showrunners, directors and CEO`s most of the blame, if this is all such coorpoative, democratic effort?
It isn't reality and while somewhat tragic, ideas are properties to indivuduals and belong to them, and taking that away from them is just mean, even in the name of making everyone heard, because individual rights matter.
Unrelated, but Slow Start is no longer exclusive to Regigigas! It is now the Hidden Ability of Varoom!...And only Varoom, because it becomes Filter once it evolves into Revavroom.
And Varoom has another ability anyways that ISN'T Slow Start, so...yeah, this is really is what Durant is to Slaking, more or less.
Lmao GF trolling again
Even though I'm not a game designer I'm sure that lore and writing has some sway over the gameplay like if you had a character that was written to be a great fire mage in the Lore but in the game play the only use water magic the inconsistency would be a problem so the teams choices have to affect each other in some way so that the overall games world makes sense to make it feel like the world in the cutscenes matches the world in the gameplay.
This sounds completely wrong.
The first section is just moving goalposts to say "it's not regal red, it's king crimson". Who cares who exactly calls the shot? The point is that the game balance feature is implemented due to the needs of features and departments completely alien to the gameplay.
But I'm really not buying the Hastu Theorem. Obtaining regigigas might be a bit unreasonable (for the game cart thing, the braille alphabet was outright in the game manual. I spent my whole playthrough expecting that to pop up) but that's definitely not a reason to make it terrible. And in such a flavorful way instead of just having low stats outright.
Why? Because it was not even the only new pokémon to require GBA carts! That same generation featured magmortar, electivire, gliscor and tangrowth. To obtain any of them you needed GBA carts, very specific ones even as opposed to any 1 of 3, and they were not crippled in any way shape of form. Unless being unfathomably ugly is supposed to be the drawback, but they share that feature with "fairer" evolutions.
Ah, and also, screw the hardware thing! Needing D/P and ONE GBA cart was far, FAR more fair than the Ranger thing. DS had a built-in GBA! You literally could play the GBA game on it! For manaphy you needed a whole additional system and thanks to that my manaphy egg remained waiting for 700 days.
I didn't know about about that other video, but I did know about golems and I know that regigigas starts off as a completely inert statue and with some difficulty (Pal Park being restricted to 6 mons per day sure made this slower) it can come back to life. I am convinced that giving it the image of a dormant eternal colossus very slowly being reactivated to its former glory is way more likely to be the main reason over needing to make it useless in battle. And this reason explains why slow start has survived the many rebalances done to pokemon, moves and abilities better than the "had to be bad in 2006 and it stuck" reason.
There are many cases in this series where pokemon have been made broken or useless solely for flavor.
There was a braille guide in the game guide, iirc
Also, the DS lite could play GBA games. And I think you still needed another ds for manaphy
If you're referring to the Sealed Chamber, the other tablets also show the alphabet, in order, in Braille
much like regigigas, this video too has a slow start and takes roughly 10 mins to make its first points
TL;DR: It's because the method to encounter it is convoluted and pay-to-win
All I'm hearing is that Regigigas shouldn't have been created in the first place. You'll never use it if you're actually trying to win, and no one's going to be jealous that you wasted time and money to catch five consecutive turns of dead weight, so why waste the development time?
Thank you
It was made specifically as a challenge for Pokedex completion. That's its purpose. Not every aspect of Pokémon is about battling.
well, i don't know shouldn't be created on the first place, there is a lot of shitty/useless pokemon out there, no every pokemon is created equal, if gonna have the argument that useless pokemon shouldn't be made, a lot of pokemon would be "deleted"
Someone out there loves those useless Pokémon
some like completing long convoluted quests. i don’t, but some do. it isn’t “wasted” development time, you just spend too much time on reddit.
Just as bonus information: back in the day, Gamefreak made a lvl 100 Regigigas event that unlocked the other regis on your DPPt game. After capturing all the regis, you could catch the statue on the snowpoint temple.
Also, after the realese of the johto remakes, you could use the regis of that game to unlock the snowpoint one
One day his body will be regi
So now, as someone who has defended Johto's weird level scaling (and 'final' rival battle against unevolved pokemon) for lore reasons, I want to hear an explanation from a game design standpoint point.
I do have my thoughts on this (for Silver at least): the IP's message has always reinforced that true strength is gained through friendship, Silver is a loner and a bully who treats his pokemon badly so what better way to demonstrate his philosophy is wrong than to have him use a pokemon that evolves through friendship not evolve until he learns his lesson (and also have trade evolutions that he cannot get because he has no friends).
I'll be honest, I think I buy the lore reasons for Regigigas being bad more than this. I'm not saying the writers or artists told the programmers explicitly to create the ability Slow Start for Regigigas, but I am fully able to believe that the devs could've had a round table discussion and one person said "I know, it's a really huge golem made of rock/clay that's covered in moss and has been dormant since time immemorial. It would make sense if it struggles to move again after all this time. Since it's a legendary it's stats will already be huge, so we can have it start out as this brick wall that if the player can't defeat quickly it'll become a monster that tears through their team," and then everyone mostly agreed.
*Maybe* Regigigas was meant as a joke pokemon, but I don't think there's enough proof from the dev team itself to strongly argue this idea. It's frankly not very funny if it is a joke and nowhere in any other Pokemon media is it treated as something to laugh about. The argument that Regigigas being otherwise "pay to win" if it was good doesn't hold up to me because this is just how the pokemon series rolls. The series was already infamous among people who play games for releasing the same game twice with extremely minimal differences, and then releasing a third more polished version after. Sure, you *could* trade with friends to obtain specific version exclusive wild encounters, or evolve specific pokemon that needed to be traded, but Gamefreak knows there's a non-zero number of people that will just buy two or even three copies of the game.
If Regigigas is just supposed to be a trophy for the player, 1. This is pokemon, the goal is already to collect as many of them as you can, the three Regis are already trophies to show off to friends on the playground just by having caught them in a convoluted puzzle that they haven't figured out yet. 2. Regigigas' catch rate is super low, lower than Dialgia and Palkia's (whom the player likely already used the master ball on) and are literally put in front of the player as a mandatory encounter, if Regigigas was supposed to be a gimme why not give it an easier catch rate? 3. While Regigas is level 1 in Platinum, it is level 70 in Diamond and Pearl. So it was definitely intended to be some kind of challenge to capture or defeat when it's encounter was first designed. 4. The devs could've done the much easier option of giving Professor Rowan unique dialogue and maybe a special ribbon that would go on the Regis' status screen for having all three if the devs wanted to go a little extra.
I think the stronger argument is that Regigigas is a legendary and GameFreak stuck it with a bad ability that matches the lore behind it because they thought it would be a tough optional boss pokemon and didn't think through how heavily 5 turns of halved attack and speed would hit it. I don't think it's controversial to say that GameFreak has made a few truly bad design decisions over their lifetime and don't care very much about the competitive side of Pokemon. Gen 1's meta is basically dominated by a big 3 of Snorlax, Tauros, Chancey, (but only because mewtwo and mew aren't used in Overused, in which case the meta entirely defined by 3 pokemon is actually only defined by 2 different pokemon), Incredibly few of Gen 2 pokemon were actually good in gen 2, Gen 4's meta is defined entirely by stealth rocks, and Regigigas has a terrible ability that completely cripples it and puts an otherwise powerful legendary into Never Used. I bring all of this up not to condemn any of the games or gamefreak. I've really enjoyed my time play GameFreak's games, both casually and semi-competitively (by that I mean, I've played my friends a bunch on pokemon showdown over the years and had a lot of fun doing it), in fact every Gen has had it's own unique feel and vibe to it while still being fun, and that impresses me a lot. But I don't think GameFreak cares very strongly about the competitive scene. I don't think they're super worried about the competitive viability of the individual pokemon. They're number 1 priority is that a casual player is able to play through the main campaign with whatever pokemon they come across and legendaries have big stat pools.
honestly, this kind of stuff, the slap on the face of going out your way to complete a game, is why i decided to no longer complete games unless i really really like them, i used to try complete every game i played, but no more.
I think in this case they are just wrong though. Like yeah in zelda the reward is bad on purpose but that's because they specifically don't want you to approach the game with a completionist mindset but rather seeing it as a sandbox where you get to do whatever and aren't expected to see everything there is to see.
Pokemone is the fuckin "gotta catch them all" game, the game that makes you buy extra games and peripheral to be able to complete it and encourage you to do so, that give you exclusive pokemon in real life events some of them locked to japan. Not only do they encourage the completionist mindset they also never cared about pokemons being unfair to obtain or imbalanced.
@@Laezar1 they actually dropped the gotta catch em all, i think since gen 3 or 4
@@Warmaster00 sure cause that was kinda untenable to ask that of player, but the completionist mindset was still there.
The games haven't stopped encouraging you to find and catch all pokemons you could and it's certainly NOT a series that actively designs around pushing you away from completionism.
Arguing that it was the intent would require some serious evidence beyond "trust me I'm a game designer lol", especially when there are other explanation that are much more plausible.
@@Laezar1 Yeah, even after dropping that slogan, they still kept encouraging the mindset through the game's design & premise. They seemingly just dropped the slogan because they were making games where it was literally impossible in some cases & using that as their slogan at that point would qualify as an actual lie worthy of a lawsuit.
They were considerate with Reggigigas, that's great. Looks at Urshifu who's locked behind a pay wall, that consideration did not apply here.
Of course the developers just probably didn't understand how busted of a mon they made. Just like how they didn't realize how much more powerful they made Zacian when compared to Zamazenta.
Answering the mid-video question: it was supposed to be a boss! Its stats would be higher than the player's expected team and they'd have a soft timer due to Slow Start that would encourage changing up their strategy for fighting and catching Regigigas!
Sorry, but the comparison with BotW Seeds is just bad, the seeds are the intended way to unlock slots but the world is open, a player can go anywhere at any time and in any way, so the devs flooded the game with them so the player can find enough to unlock all the slots without having to go out of their way to find them. BUT there is always those people that will go out of their way to find all of them, so they gave a joke reward for the unnecessary effort.
Regigigas quest is hand made for him, every piece of the puzzle was put in the game exclusively for him, it wasn't a different side quest that gave you other useful stuff that was never intended to be fully completed, as you said you HAVE to catch him for the pokédex, so the game is constantly shoving in your face that he exist and you need to catch it. Did you forgot the game slogan? Gotta Catch'em all. So he is not a joke reward, he is a full middle finger from the devs.
Btw, I just made this comment because you decided to talk sh*t about someone else video while making the same wrong assumptions. And Varoom also have slow start.
roll of regigigus in the story. To be a legendary that you find in a dungeon that has the illusion of power.
sometime in the future games;
slow start would still be there.
But Regigigas would have a hidden ability,
*Adrenal Start* , which would essentially double its attack and speed for 5 turns(switching resets the turn count). [A good AG addition]
But it is only for the regional form that you only get from the dlc
I think Bro forgot how easy is to get Regigigas in Arceus, like if it was not just moving some statues, ALSO they tell you about it in a post-game main mission! I personaly think that if Gamefreak went through all of the truble of re-making the ability but not making it hard to get (the pokemon), then it's because of the pokemon's background rather than game balancing mecanics.
I'm just saying is not because of making a "fan appealing regigigas", like pachirisu was super loved because of it's competitive gimmick and they still market with it despite removing the feature that made it somewhat viable
My guess as to what Regigigas is from a game design persctive was to be a super secret boss like Bahamut or Yozora or anything else like that.
Another point, since regigigas isnt a box legendary, toure usually allowed to use it in vgc with other legends like the tapus. But those legendaries have stats lower than 600 with our boy gigas sitting at 680 meaning that if it were functional by itself, you could put him next to an amoongus and just tera steel tera blast the enemy fluttermane and decemate the rest of their team
urshifu go brr
And then neutralyzing gas weezing happened.
I mean if you are gonna Tera even an 80 base attack mon can 1 shot Flutter
Neither is mewtwo, zygarde, and eternatus. They can easily put gigas at restricted if they need to, idk what's the hassle.
I waiting for the day where Regigigas says “I am Regi” and Regis all over the place.
That actually happened when neutralyzing gas weezing hit the scene.
12:42 Before you give the answer: Collection for perfection as a secret boss (if you can count the legendaries as bosses). I mean Regigigas is not a easy to wake up.
I'd like to add something. Lore never justifies a character, a world, a story, etc. If when someone asks you to present an idea, you talk about lore, you can be sure that it will never be taken if the person in front of you is even a little bit serious. Because by definition, lore is useless. Even if the lore around regigigas is interesting, it in no way justifies its story, and even less its design.
"not many people knew braille existed as kids" not universally so, actually! idk about other places, but in the USA braille is not uncommonly found on indoor signage at places like doctor's offices and other such places that serve important societal functions, i think due to laws around making things more accessible to the disabled population from the 90s. it's likely a lot of kids here were able to recognize that it was braille, but didn't have the means to translate it if a book on braille wasn't available in their school library as the internet wasn't as accessible at the time. i vividly remember an acquaintance in middle school who literally did go through a book during our break period to translate the braille for the regi puzzle.
it's wild the regigigas isn't even THAT good without slow start but they thought it was okay to give Zacian an ability that boosts its attack when switched in
so thats why filling the pokedex until gen 5 didnt have any reward... so many things make sense now
It did have an in-game reward (special dialogue and an in-game certificate iirc). However, there was no reward in terms of new pokemon/combat ability/locations/items, if that's what you mean.
The funny thing about Braille is that there's a guide for the cipher in-game. The rocks in Sealed Chamber display the combination, though it doesn't say which letter is what, it is presented in a logical order (A to Z, with the two solitary rocks on right representing dot and comma). Even then, I am pretty sure some copies of the games came with Braille guide.
Many years ago there was an event here in The Netherlands where they gave out free lv. 100 Regigigas to every visitor.
I couldn't read English at the time so I had no idea what Slow Start did and I didn't really notice it either because a lv. 100 still beats everything even when its stats are halved xD
Anyway what you're saying makes a lot of sense. Never thought about it like this :0
Oddly enough all yesterday I was doing reseach on this topic
I enjoy your videos a lot, but you definitely came off as rude when talking about the lore video. I don't think it was your intention, and I realize you eventually encouraged people to check out the video themselves, but next time you may consider reducing the amount of time spent tearing down a different video, or start off with the recommendation and THEN discuss how the other video mishandles the topic.
17:16 Ughhh actually, it wouldn't be until after platinum was released before you could get a ds that didn't have the gba slot for backwards compatibility that was used for transfer, but requiring beating an at the time year old at least game to the point you could do the puzzles for the original regis wasn't free by any means.
"Regigigas is both money and difficulty gated, since it requires a complex puzzle to be transferred across different consoles"
Celebi in gen 3 mainline:
Requires Gameboy and GameCube
Requires gen 3 adv game and colosseum
Neither of those are upgrade paths to each other
Needs colosseum bonus disc, a preorder only item. Bought after release? Too bad.
Purify all the shadow Pokemon in the game and return to the tree again with an empty slot
Japan version only BTW
Needs another piece of external hardware in the link cable
Adv game needs to have:
-Beaten Elite Four
-Saved at Pokémon Centre
-Have 5 or less Pokémon in your team
There is also a limit to how many times you can do this
the nerf still can be 2/3 of his attack and speed and only 3 turns, wich is still annoying but not so detrimental
Devs do consider lore for game balance, Formsoft is one, heck, even Ubisoft and Rainbow 6 seige does, there was a smg with a few attachments that was busted, so the devs made it were you could not use said attachments together on the smg, in lore it was because the organization made it illegal to do so.
Some devs do. Not all devs, because guess what? Developers have different priorities
I understand that you're saying, and in a lot cases things aren't made terrible on purpose because the writing team says so, but to imply that's never the case is flat out wrong.
Hmmmm, if game designers dont care about lore, only balance, then why does water beat fire???
DEBUNKED lol
15:20 The original boxes instruction booklet came with a translation page for Braille, as well as a page explaining it. You could 100% figure it out if you just read the booklet.
Initially, I was thinking that it was to put a timer challenge on the player to catch regigigas or face a powerful boss, but I only caught it Pokemon Pearl at level 70 and totally forgot that it was level 1 in Platinum.
Also it was nice that GF allowed Regigigas to slowly break free of its Slow Start weaknesses by giving it Rest, Protect, and Substitute to allow it to actually stall out those turns instead of locking it out of those options entirely.
It's become something of a challenge for people. It takes some skill and strategy to use Regigigas effectively. Getting it out with a batton pass and substitute or shed tail, keeping it alive, running Galarian Wheezing, just to get those five turns and to get it's full potential unleashed.
slight correction about solving the braille puzzle, at least in the european release of pokemon ruby, sapphire and emerald the games manual contained a table with which you can solve the braille puzzle, meaning having the game guide or looking it up on serebii was not necessary to solve it. You did need to read the manual however.
The idea of Regigigas being a simple completion reward being a justification for it sucking so bad seems like a reasonable eplaination at first, then you realize Mr. Toots (red Faction Armageddon), The Pointer (Dead Space) and the Reaper (Bayonetta) exist. They need to find a way to mitigate the problem
Wait, do those games require you to buy other games to unlock them?
A while ago I had seen a video that talks about Dunsparce, I can't help but find some common points only that here they took the premise to a legendary level.
convincing argument. though i was wondering how mythicals fit into the picture, but iirc they are banned in pvp, so i guess it still works.
You do NOT need to have an entirely separate console to obtain Regigigas in fact having a Gameboy Advance wouldnt help you obtain it at all. You do need a Nintendo DS or Nintendo DS Lite which features a GBA cartridge slot at the bottom of the handheld. Having both the DS Game and the GBA game plugged in at the same time is how you transfer Pokemon from the GBA titles to the DS Titles. So you "only" need the GBA game as well which as I mentioned can be played on DS or DS Lite.
I think youre overstating how complicated the braille puzzles in RSE are. They included a translation of the braille alphabet in the back of the instruction manual.
And if you didn't have that box which many, many, MANY, people didn't? He's not overstating the difficulty at all lmao. But ok Mr. contrarian edgelord. Continue to spew bullshit lies because your sad pathetic ego couldn't handle the fact that something is actually difficult...get a life. 😅
Now that you mention lore not having anything to do with Slow Start, I don't remember if there are any lines of dialogue outside of battle that indicate Regigigas having trouble becoming active or if that justification was something fans made up based on its design and Pokédex entries (which for the record, don't tell us anything relevant), and then everyone else accepted it as fact. If that wasn't the case, though, I could see it as a case of the art team creating their concept for Regigigas, then the design team creating the mechanics for Slow Start, and finally asking the writing team to add a little tidbit after the fact to justify its existence.
As to what I thought Regigigas' original role for the games was gonna be, I admit I might've gotten caught up on how your previous videos focused on the single-player experience and so I started to think it was Game Freak's attempt at a timed boss fight, or at least as close to one as the game mechanics allow them. But instead of "if you run out of time/turns you automatically lose the fight or get hit with an unavoidable OHKO move", it becomes "if you take too long to beat/catch Regigigas it'll become stronger and make it harder for you to survive".
Interesting video. I do think there's a tendency, not just in Pokemon but in other games too, for people to look at a unit's stats/skills in isolation without considering the in-game context that unit will appear in. Your videos have given me a greater appreciation for the multiple components that go together into making the overall game experience.
I'd say the only thing that would make Regigigas get up fast is either a special variant that comes from ancient times or a special form (but we're WAY past that now that Mega Evolution has been ditched) that makes it go back to it's prime.
I have to criticize some points you made in your video.
For starters, you don‘t need a "Second System" to obtain the Regies in RSE. GBA games are playable on the DS. Even when you transfer the Regies from the GBA games to the DS games you just need one system. This is very unique for Pokémon, which usually always requires two systems to transfer Pokémon.
Also I disagree with your point about how Regigigas has to have Slow Start so players who can‘t get it don‘t feel left out. There‘s a whole category of "feel left out if you don‘t physically attend our events"- Pokémon in Gen 4 and earlier, called mythical Pokémon. None of them have a detrimental ability like Regigigas, even though they definitely are even harder to obtain.
Ironically, Regigigas himself was also distributed as event Pokémon multiple times. But in contrast to most other event Pokémon (which don‘t have bad abilities) Regigigas can be cought in game at least.
Also you argued that now it is possible to obtain Regigigas in a single game, which you seconds later contradicted by not only mentioning that it‘s a Pokémon from a PAID DLC, but you also need to trade to get both. In DPP you also need to trade the Regies. You don‘t need to own anything, if somebody else can trade you the Regies. They can unlock Regigigas on multiple save files after all. I‘m mentioning this because I don’t think you‘ve made a fair comparison to the Sw/Sh event, because without friends who can trade you the other Regie you still need two Games, two DLCs, and either two Nintendo Switches or a Pokemon Home subscription.
The other thing to consider is how legendary battles work in the original games. They're basically timed fights reliant on luck whether or not you catch the Pokemon or not. Either the legendary runs out of PP and kills itself or the legendary grows too powerful and defeats you. Slow Start basically increases the pressure in a way, giving you five turns of relative grace, and then after that you have to deal with Regigigas at full power. Though that explanation doesn't work for Platinum, and also there are far worse legendary fights for that (Azelf is far worse because of Nasty Plot).
As someone who's been really interested in game development recently, this is a pretty great insight into the process. My guess for Regigiggas' purpose was an incentive to play around with the new ability system (this is until I remembered he is from gen 4, not 3).
An elegant way to make Regigigas work would be to give it's ability a "late bloomer" power up that kicks in after those turns.
It'd still be bad, but if you can make it survive long enough it gains a power boost that makes it super threatening.
Or maybe let it get stronger based on how many Regis you already have, turn the Regi hunt upside down by starting you with a bad gigas who gets better with more of its servants you catch.
I luckily figured out the puzzles as a kid on my own but they perplexed me for over a year as I tried different things lol
Seems to me that the way to handle Regigigas getting going - if that's even desired - is a held item. Something that causes its ability to change from Slow Start to something else. Put that behind a feasible quest or maybe even a questline that requires you to only use the Regis.
I like to think of funny alternatives if Slow Start worked differently. Like, imagine "Enters the field with -5 Attack and -5 Speed, but gains +1 Attack and +1 Speed per turn." Some ridiculous ability that turns him into a terrifying monster the longer you fight him.
I mean, I'd still change Slow Start in three ways. Others have explained why Slow Start is still stupid.
1. Slow Start should simply cut all stats but HP by 20% for the first 5 turns.
2. The stat reduction for Slow Start becomes merely 25% for the second and third turns and 10% in the fourth turn.
3. Just make a held item that suppresses abilities.
Also it doesn't reset upon switching either way.
17:09 I'm not sure if anyone else in the comments had mentioned this already but I want to make one quick correction. You were not required to have an entirely separate console (Game Boy Advance), just one of the Gen 3 games. The original DS and DS Lite included a slot at the bottom which allowed you to play GBA games and is also the method in which you would be able to transfer from Gen 3 to 4 in the first place.
Now this doesn't completely negate the point you were making, but owning a GBA game is not as drastic of a 'paywall' as owning the console itself.
Just wanted to clear that up. Really love your videos. I just finished watching the Cynthia/Volo ones.
To be honest I don't know the first thing about the context in which Regigagas appears so I can't rightly say why it was designed with Slow Start. If I had to absolutely guess, however... I'd say maybe it's intended to be a support for the other golems? Since you can't get it without Regiice, -steel, or -rock?
Edit: well i was right about it being related to the other regis lol