Debate: Did Oct 7 end the two state solution? | Joseph Cohen vs John Aziz & Hamza Howidy
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- Опубликовано: 21 окт 2024
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Thank you Joseph for your tireless advocacy for Israel and for bringing these thoughtful voices to the public.
This is the most positive, and beautiful discussion about Israel/Palestine that I have ever come across! Thank you to Hamza, John, and Joseph for taking this collective step in the right direction of respectful dialog ❤
As Golda Meir said when asked when there will be peace, " when they love their children as much as we love our children."
You got the quote wrong.
She said “Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.”
Thank you John and Hamza for talking with Joseph in this forum about this extremely important topic.
Beautiful people you are. In this troubled time, I wish there were more people like you!❤
Eli from Israel
Joseph I can’t tell you how this conversation gives me hope. You all three gentlemen are such an inspiration and everyone should listen “ dialogue and peace”, I pray.
Two states from the Mandate - Israel and Jordan. Next question?
This is incredibly powerful and necessary. Joseph please keep these crucial lines of communication flowing. You are an amazing advocate for Israel and your work is very much appreciated!! Thank you!!
Writing here in support of Joseph. Thanks for your detailed, historically accurate delineation of our current dilemmas. We need only look at the Islamist threats outside of the Middle East to understand the threat to Jews as well as the West.
There was no such thing as "Palestinian" identity 500 years ago. These were all considered "Syrian" peoples.. Palestinian identity itself is an anti-Jewish ideological movement. The entire identity needs an overhaul, or perhaps name change and generational reeducation. Every Yehudi IS Palestinian and was Palestinian prior to 1948, which was a regional designation, the equivalent of "New Yorker". The modern identity is a post 1948 creation, largely based on the Natsi ideology under the Muftis leadership and later KGB/Pan-Arav creaton of the PLO whos singular purpose was the destruction of the nation of Yizrael. Further, the Arav CAUSED the Nakba, by starting a civil war in 1947, refusing partition for 2 states and declaring gee had. The Nakba was the failed attempt by the Arav to cleanse the land of the Yehud. The nation of Jordan is about 70% of the Mandate for Palestine and is the Arav "Palestinian" state. The only way f aorward is a complete overhaul of modern "Palestinian" identity. Deradicalization and reeducation is an absolute must. And yes, unfortunately because of the last 100 years of Arav aggression against the Yehud, a resentment and prejudice against Aravs has developed within Yizreali society and this too needs to be corrected. The first thing that needs to happen is a stop to this eternal struggle for "Palestinian" dominance.
Can you steelman the Palestinian rebuttal to this?
@@rafeekgafoor8084 Honestly, thats pretty tough. given the actual facts, since much of the Pstinin rhetoric is based on marxist dialectic and distortion, that prior to 1948 every Hebrew in Mandatory was considered Palestinian, and that Palestinian itself was a regional designation the equivalent of New Yorker, and never an ethnik identity or national identity until after 1948. However, I suppose the best argument would be that 1948 and 1967 are irrelevant, and there is no such thing as inherent collective land rights. That the current population of the WB/Aza have been living there now, however they formed, whatever the history, for 75 years under the identity of "Palestinin"/ And thus deserve autonomy and self determination, but that doesnt necessarily mean a sovereign nation of Pstine. In order to steelman this we would have to agree that the history is not relevant on how we move forward, the nakba, the the PLO etc... all that wouold have to go out the window. Along with claims of 48 or 67 borders, neither of which factually existed in any form of a "palestine". So I suppose something along the lines of , there are a few million people living in these regions and they deserve self determination and they have a right to live in this region because even if its only been 75 years as this nebulous entity, that is long enough to establish such residency. And that we can work within the current framework, "settlements" included, using the areas A, B, and C, to form some kind of federation where Arav have some form of demilitarized autonomy. I just cant see any valid argument that would give them what the PA/PLO has been demanding for the last 50 years or so. But I do see arguments for why they have a right to live there and thus have self determination and rights in that vein. Personally, I would propose something like the United States relationship with Puerto Rico. Non-proportional representation federally so to speak, with proportional representation locally. But this would require acceptance of Yizreal and the Yehuds rights to live their under the now established nationhood of Yizreal, which for various reasons MUST include Jerusalem and parts of area C. This of course would all be much easier if the PA was done away with, along with UNRWA. UNRWA has been pivotal in perpetuating the madness and conflict, making eternal refugee status with no mandate for resolution, created largely to maintain a struggle with the goal of the destruction of Yiz. So these entities in my mind would have to be made defunct, with new entities created that ideologically align with cooperation. As opposed to what exists now. Now I think some form of federal union, in this sense would make sense. In the same sense, Yizreal needs to do a better job of upholding its half. If Pstine is to have no military and if Yizreal is to have overall authority in terms of rule of law, then they need to ensure equal enforcement and the safety of Aravs in Aza and Judea and Samaria. If settlements are to be valid, then there can be no bias, and exclusive protection for Yizrealis in Judea and Samaria. They need to equally protect Pstinins , including from their own fanatics , but this of course would require cooperation on both ends in order to work and that part seems difficult given the ideological divide. But in a sense, The "this is Yehudi land" argument in that sense is just as bad as "this is arav land". Its Yizreali land , and that includes Yehudi, Samaritan, Mozlem Christian, bedouin and everyone else.Yizreal being a protectorate for the Yehudi people perhaps, but a multi ethnic entity in function. Im not sure thats quite what you were hoping for but its the best I got for now.
@@rafeekgafoor8084 Also, I think Yizealis, Yehudi and all, have to accept the conceot that everyone within the region is "plaestinian". That Yizreals would be Yizreali palestinian and non Yizreali Arav would be "whatever" Palestinian. But I think they need to share this designation of "Palestinian" as it was prior to 1948. As it stands now, its become this Yizreal vs Palestinian divide when in reality, that is artificial and Yizrealis only began rejecting the designation after 1948. I understand both sides would likely take issue with this, but given the reality, to me this seems just a factual statement. Technically, Jordanians are also Palestinian in this sense. I honestly think the easiest and perhaps best route would be for Jordan to enter into a federal union with Yizreal and share governance of Areas A, B and C. Perhaps under a boader Palestinian union with the nations of Israel and Jordan within that union. Yea i know this isnt really a rebuttal or steelman, but its all i got lol
Good to see someone know his histroy.
500 years? Not even 80 years ago. Palestinian identity came about in 1960's by KGB and arab shills
John, right on point that Gaza could be like Dubai if they put in the effort. Very nice territory for tourism.
If these three men and other peace activists were in charge, 2 state solution would come much faster. This is a good conversation.
The possible negativity of my comments aside, thank you all of you for starting the discussion, opening the dialogue. May God bless all of you.
Thank you so much, I often wished we could here more from the peaceful, anti war palistinians. They remind me so much of the beautiful, peaceful gazans we used to see every day coming into israel pre Oct7. They are such good people who deserved so much more. My family and i miss and worry about them every day.
Much respect to you all for an open, honest discussion.
I don’t remember who said it in the video but one of the Palestinians made a really important point. I think his thinking was there but he didn’t stress it as much as he could have.
He said “we need to learn to live in peace with our enemies”. I tally I thought “here we go, no matter what Israel concedes he’s just admitted the Jews will always be the enemy”. Bit after thinking about it I think it was a really nuanced, practical and powerful point.
Both sides will see each other as “enemies” for a long time. Maybe even for three rest of my lifetime. But so do the Protestants and catholics in Northern Ireland, yet they both agree that peace is more important.
If we can just get to the starting point of being able to live in peace then we can start looking at defusing the more deeply entrenched “enemy” rhetoric on both sides. This situation isn’t going to be solved by both side suddenly and absolutely forgiving the other, but learning to work together in peace, and ultimately moving towards mutual acceptance.
The psychological side can wait, let’s get to peace, then work on the rest.
Excellent conversation. Lifts my heart in these otherwise depressing times. ❤
This is a very important video. Great dialogue. Well done
Beautiful music. It moves me like no other music.
It's so refreshing to hear from Palestinians that don't want to destroy Israel and want to live in peace with Jews, but as Joseph says, this doesn't seem to be shared by the majority of them.
This discussion restored some of my hope today. Thank you Joseph, John and, Hamza!
Love to you all ❤
Born and bred Hebrew, and trust me, I’ve never planned on, allowing any part of my national territory to be given to anyone. I don’t know what you’re talking about people like me are here, and we will never allow any peace of our land to be given away to anyone.
Mr Cohen you are anytime welcome in Azerbaijan🇦🇿
Thank you ❤️🙏
John, the places that "work" all have one thing in common. Complete control by the ruling family. Saudi, UAE, Bahrain, Jordan. And any internal dissent is not tolerated at all. The Palestinians in Jordan and Lebanon are kept under permanent tight control. They are not given autonomy.
I think it ended when they said "no negotiation with Israel, no recognition of Israel and no peace with Israel"
When did they say that?
@@danthaman743Khartoum Resolution
@@Colby_0-3_IRL_and_title_fights ah yes.
Thank you so much Joseph for finding John Aziz and Hamza Howidy, who are the voices of Palestinian reason, we can all agree that we both have claims to the land and I'll just ask Hamza and John, if you guys have Jewish roots, that maybe Palestinians can convert back to Judaism, then they'll be no more arguments! 😉😂
Why can't the Palestinian leadership be more like these guys?? There would be peace tomorrow
Very beautiful echo chamber. May more Palestinians be like these
Fantastic people. ❤
Gaza Palestine would have been the Singapore of the Middle East, is it still possible after all this.
No. Because of barbaric mentality.
@evergreenchase8416 I agree, the whole of that coast and land is other-worldly beautiful. Well it was before the T groups ruined it all.
So much potential there on many levels without the J groups, look what Israel achieved in 100 years..
That was eye-opening. Can we have the Twitter addresses please? Thanks. :)
They’re in the description
@@Israel_Advocacy Thank you. :) Missed them. Followed them.
How could it end what has not been a possibility given repeated, consistent Muslim refusal to accept it?
Someone tell me anything about any Arab country that would indicate a Palestinian state would be democratic and protect the rights of any of its citizens. Much less non-Muslim citizens.
A dissident 2. state solution is dead and buried imo. BUT. You could possibly make a confederation of 2. independent states, with a unified overall government. (United States of Israel and Palestine). I do not know how this should start and be exercised, but it could possibly function.....
There are Arabs in Israel living alongside Jews, Christians, Muslims, Bedouins, Druze, All are different Arabs. Who are the Palestinians!?
Beautiful peolle on the Palestinian side in the midst of so much hate amd carnage. There simply is no need for it.
Why for the Nazi flag on preview?
Why do you use the term advocacy rather than SUPPORT / SUPPORTER?
It isn't helpful to the cause
Yes
Jordan is the central command of Muslim brotherhood protected by the king.
I thought that was London! Place is absolutely riddled with them including the mayor..
If you guys want to listen to an honest Christian American man talk about the genocide go listen to Scott Ritter.
Scott Ritter is a convicted PDF file, every prediction he has made has been wrong.
@jadlucas3304 this man is a morally reprehensible liar and his distortion of facts, history and events have been debunked every time.
A terrible human being.
@judlucas3304 he is a bad man whose "theories" have been debunked every time.
John definitely has some jewish roots…
Are these two Palestinians still alive?
God wants everyone to read Daniel 6:22. Sincerly, Amira Malaka Elah
I think you mean 6,23. About the angel shutting the lion's mouth. Don't know what you are implying but Ham... Are definitely not angels and definitely lions. But they did harm, so this is not relevant at all
@Presserp No. Daniel 6:23.
I will give you some testimony. God spoke fifty sentences to me from above to my ear over nine years' time span. His first nine sentences to me were 8.4.2015 in the morning. Since then, I have told people and timestamped many prescient visions that came true.
11.17.2015 Eve Beach Waikiki early evening. I couldn't find a book reading so I sat under the stars alone.
God asked me, What side of the blade are you on. I answered, The side of the righteous my words are my sword. He then showed me my ascension to Heaven. He said, Make Israel one. You are anchor.
God's last sentence to me was four years ago after months. He said, You are Princess Messenger of God.
The latest sign I asked God for was the big solar flare for May 11th Aurora Borealis. There are eleven solar years on the sun. In Aramaic Khubba means love. Khubba to you and yours. Ahava Adonai Ahava Israel Elehenu Adonai Hashem
The Swiss solution
Jordanians are Palestinians. Jordan and Israel was the 2 state mandate. The "Palestinians" just want to chip away at Israel until its gone completely. Don't let them, Israel!
No, 50+ years of criminal occupation and illegal annexion ended it. This video could have been a short.
hamasbot
LOL nonsense. There is no criminal occupation. Criminal occupation of what? The Arav refused partition in 1948 and declared gee had, thus the UN partition plan went out the window and the mandate rightfully fell to Yizreal who created a legitimate state. This is when Jordan claimed the WB and Egypt claimed Aza, which stood for 20 years without a single attempt to create a nation of Pstine as that was NEVER the goal of the Arav leadership, who plainly stated from WW1 onward that their goal was to create a continuous Izlombust empire from Iraq to Morocco. The Pstine flag is the Jordanian flag without the Hashemite symbol, which itself is just a variation of the pan-Arav flag. The first time in HISTORY a nation of Pstine was EVER claimed in the WB/Aza was 1968, the year AFTER Yizreal rightfully liberated their territories from Jordan and Egypt, neither from any entity of Pstine.
Stop starting wars you can not win.
Sorry I have this bad habit to base my opinion on legal ruling, especially the ones of the highest courts in the world, every settlement built beyond 1967 borders is illegal, as well as the ethnic cleansing done on that areas, period.
@@alessandromodesti1101 Legal ruling? Go to UN 181 resolution, and talk to me about “Legal Ruling”…