Please note - In the price I have not included the cost of re usable things like the mould and vacuum storage bag, which will last hundreds of parts if well maintained.
So, mate, let me get this straight: first you put on the gc50 gelcoat to create a uv stable surface. Then after it dries out completely you go on with the rest of the process. Question: given the fact that the gelcoat has totally dried out, doesn't that give problems in terms of bonding with the carbon surface? Next question: i want to make a fiberglass or carbon cover for a motorcycle tank. It will be a wet layup with poly resin... you think i can vacuum bag it or better leave it alone given the concave shape? And if I vacuum bag it, will it be necessary to trim ALL the excess to avoid movement at the edges, where there is no mould? Thanks
Recommended to me by the algorithm. I do a lot of fibreglass boat work and had always been put off vacuum bagging by the hassle of making the bag, connecting the separate pump, etc etc. Your video is brilliant. Such an easy approach and very cost effective, not to mention cutting down on plastic waste. Thanks for sharing - I look forward to testing this weekend👍
Be careful about using your bare skin with epoxy resin! It is a sensitizer, which means over time it can make you more and more allergic to it, to the point it can cause serious problems to be around it.
hi! i love and learn a lot from your channel! i have some questions and correct me if i wrong. 1. the method u showed is kind of similar to achieve prepreg end product but without using prepreg carbon right? only use normal carbon fibre clothes. right? 2. can the parts like above video be cured again in oven/autoclave after overnight cure to achieve higher strength? thank you and pls make more videos! love your channel!
Great result, i didn't get well how much time rest among gelcoat and first layer of resin, and then, i saw that you pull the gelcoat after it rests for 10 min, do you apply other gelcoat in that moment? or simply you pull what you have applied before? Thank you
Hi, After the gel coat has been applied I leave it for 10 min and then simply use the same brush with no extra resin. Then leave cure to touch dry (about 1 hour)
@@CarbonWorkshops sounds good, do you let it cure at room temperature or higher, before moving on to the first layer of resin? I asked it because I saw a really good result with no bubbles on the first layer .. could you recommend some tricks to avoid that problem, like putting the flame on the top or something else?
I have learned so much from your channel! I am in the process of creating my own mold design for a trunk wing spoiler. Would the method with the vacuum bag be good enough for a more complex detail? Would the vacuum bag create enough pressure for the carbon to get to the contour of a more complex mold? Anyway, I am almost ready with the mold and waiting for the carbon delivery so will find out myself but any hint would be appreciated! You are a blessing for the carbon enthusiasts community!
It only takes .2hg to vacuum form Easiest way to make a wing is to CAD a wing and form a block around it Print the block(s) so you have a negative and then follow the procedure you see here to make it Most difficult part is forming the supports internally for the mounts I’ve done it and honestly….. easier to just buy a ABS wing and skin it in CF and be done…..
I'm intrigued by your methods! I need to try skinning the way you do and be patient with the initial layer you start off with, the end product is fantastic!
I was always curious if you could use those home vacuum bags for this. Guess so! I have a project where I want to make a panel that is 78"x140" I was planning just to do a wet layup but I think the vacuum is important. What do you think would be the best way?
I have used these bags for this purpose. I personally had at least one bag fail because you can't leave the vacuum cleaner running the whole time as it would burn up from not having any air flow after the bag is emptied, and sometimes those valves don't seal right. They can definitely work sometimes though. I also had another one fail completely my fault, as the mold had a rough outer surface which punctured the bag. Also, as I understand it (definitely not a pro), this is wet layup method, also using vacuum. Alternative methods are resin infusion, requiring a vacuum pump pulling the resin into the vacuum bag through tubing setup for it, and using prepregnated sheets that I think require heat to help cure them. As stated though, I'm no pro and could be wrong.
Hello, it worked now and is ha solid material, but the gel coat is still sticky between the carbon and the original product. What can I do that it isn’t sticky anymore?
AFAIK, The vacuum level achievable with domestic vacuum cleaners and vacuum bags is typically not sufficient for a good quality wet layup process of carbon fiber epoxy parts. This process often requires a higher level of vacuum to ensure quality and structural integrity in composite materials like carbon fiber. In the wet layup process, a vacuum is used to: 1. **Remove Air Bubbles**: To ensure there are no voids or air pockets that can weaken the material. 2. **Ensure Proper Resin Distribution**: To achieve a consistent resin-to-fiber ratio throughout the part. 3. **Compact the Layers**: To create a dense, uniform laminate with good fiber-to-resin adhesion. The vacuum level required for this process is typically higher than what domestic vacuum cleaners can provide. Industrial vacuum pumps, often used in composite manufacturing, can reach vacuum levels of about 99% (or 0.1 kPa), which is significantly higher than the 80% (or 20 kPa) achieved by household vacuum cleaners. In summary, while domestic vacuum cleaners can create a basic vacuum for general household tasks or simple vacuum bagging, they are not adequate for the more demanding requirements of carbon fiber epoxy wet layup processes. For such applications, specialized equipment designed to achieve and maintain a higher vacuum level is necessary.
I've tried this method on a piece of mine but I am struggling to let the carbon fiber adhere to the mould. What should I do to let the carbon fiber adhere perfectly to the surface mould?
I think I know why, but why do you add a gelcoat layer first? I guess just for shine/hardness/UV stability for the outside? What brand gelcoat is it, and is it hard to get one compatible with the epoxy?
Great work but you should of wore gloves when laying both the ply and breather. A hand reaction may not happen instantly but can be bad in the long run.
@Carbon Workshop hello I have a question: we may not see it in the video but do you pass your preparation in an oven? if so how long at how many degrees c?
Great content and instructional videos. Any suggestions where to get some of the products you recommend here in the US? I checked with Composite Envisions here in the States, but they apparently don't offer a polyester gelcoat that is compatible with epoxy resin. Anyway, any suggestions would be appreciated. Keep up the great videos!
So let's ask this. These vacuum bags I see go for cheap Amazon for about 34$ US with the blue cap. Would you say these same bags can be cooked at 120° F? If it was discussed already I am sorry
Probably wouldn't take the temperature of 120deg. But you could cure the part the bags maximum temperature. And then take the part out of the bag and carry on the cure slowly.
It won't create as much vacuum, so it won't work as well but it does work. Wouldn't recommend using a vacuum cleaner for structural parts. A vacuum cleaner also relies on air flow to cool it, so if you use a vacuum cleaner for this a lot it will burn out, especially if run continuously on leaking bagging jobs like boat or surfboard repair where it is difficult to get a complete seal.
Hello, I left it in the vacuum bag for 10 hours but it still was soft and sticky. Did I do something wrong with the mixture or was it to short in the bag?
@@CarbonWorkshops of had about 22 degrees Celcius. I tried to use 25 ml resin + 7.5 ml Catalyst, but since it was normal house temperature it should be the resin that went wrong, since there is no other way to tell what else it could be
While likely accurate, your cost calculations leave much to be desired IMHO. I'd prefer to see initial outlay values rather than cost-per-use or cost-per-piece values. As I see it, that's how most folks would have to begin.
You forgot to add your time to the cost price, as well as the time spent on mistakes, before obtaining mastery. This is where the cost price and the final price of carbon are formed =)
![If you have a cooking oven you can also make dry carbon fiber parts. [DIY] (Making Engine Cover)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EMU2mxDctAI/mqdefault.jpg)
Please note - In the price I have not included the cost of re usable things like the mould and vacuum storage bag, which will last hundreds of parts if well maintained.
and also priceless skills:)
may I ask: can the process work with a polyester resin instead of epoxy?
Being the mould polyester by itself, there shouldnt any problem, right?
@@sergiodestefano6752 yes polyester resin also works very well and cures alot faster to
So, mate, let me get this straight: first you put on the gc50 gelcoat to create a uv stable surface.
Then after it dries out completely you go on with the rest of the process.
Question: given the fact that the gelcoat has totally dried out, doesn't that give problems in terms of bonding with the carbon surface?
Next question: i want to make a fiberglass or carbon cover for a motorcycle tank. It will be a wet layup with poly resin... you think i can vacuum bag it or better leave it alone given the concave shape? And if I vacuum bag it, will it be necessary to trim ALL the excess to avoid movement at the edges, where there is no mould?
Thanks
🎉🎉
Recommended to me by the algorithm. I do a lot of fibreglass boat work and had always been put off vacuum bagging by the hassle of making the bag, connecting the separate pump, etc etc. Your video is brilliant. Such an easy approach and very cost effective, not to mention cutting down on plastic waste.
Thanks for sharing - I look forward to testing this weekend👍
I'm always amazed how you make it look so simple. Thanks for sharing once again.
What a remarkably good outcome, I had always wondered if a domestic or industrial vacuum cleaner might work in this application.
I was planning to do the same thing but have been doubtful. Now I know it can be done. Thank you very much.
Be careful about using your bare skin with epoxy resin! It is a sensitizer, which means over time it can make you more and more allergic to it, to the point it can cause serious problems to be around it.
Outstanding idea to use the bag like that 👍👍👍
Very helpful I may give this a try and make a front license filler plate for my 90 corvette.
hi! i love and learn a lot from your channel!
i have some questions and correct me if i wrong.
1. the method u showed is kind of similar to achieve prepreg end product but without using prepreg carbon right? only use normal carbon fibre clothes. right?
2. can the parts like above video be cured again in oven/autoclave after overnight cure to achieve higher strength?
thank you and pls make more videos! love your channel!
Also interested:)
Hello excellent job thanks for information, I was just wondering how much time you wait after last gelcoat, before applying epoxy resin? Thx
Just until touch dry. Usually about 1 hour at room temp.
Great result, i didn't get well how much time rest among gelcoat and first layer of resin, and then, i saw that you pull the gelcoat after it rests for 10 min, do you apply other gelcoat in that moment? or simply you pull what you have applied before? Thank you
Hi,
After the gel coat has been applied I leave it for 10 min and then simply use the same brush with no extra resin.
Then leave cure to touch dry (about 1 hour)
@@CarbonWorkshops sounds good, do you let it cure at room temperature or higher, before moving on to the first layer of resin? I asked it because I saw a really good result with no bubbles on the first layer .. could you recommend some tricks to avoid that problem, like putting the flame on the top or something else?
@@liviogaleotti1182 just cos at room temp. You shouldn't get bubles in gel coat if you mix slowly and brush on thin as possible.
I have learned so much from your channel! I am in the process of creating my own mold design for a trunk wing spoiler.
Would the method with the vacuum bag be good enough for a more complex detail? Would the vacuum bag create enough pressure for the carbon to get to the contour of a more complex mold?
Anyway, I am almost ready with the mold and waiting for the carbon delivery so will find out myself but any hint would be appreciated!
You are a blessing for the carbon enthusiasts community!
It only takes .2hg to vacuum form
Easiest way to make a wing is to CAD a wing and form a block around it
Print the block(s) so you have a negative and then follow the procedure you see here to make it
Most difficult part is forming the supports internally for the mounts
I’ve done it and honestly….. easier to just buy a ABS wing and skin it in CF and be done…..
I'm intrigued by your methods! I need to try skinning the way you do and be patient with the initial layer you start off with, the end product is fantastic!
I was always curious if you could use those home vacuum bags for this. Guess so! I have a project where I want to make a panel that is 78"x140" I was planning just to do a wet layup but I think the vacuum is important. What do you think would be the best way?
I have used these bags for this purpose. I personally had at least one bag fail because you can't leave the vacuum cleaner running the whole time as it would burn up from not having any air flow after the bag is emptied, and sometimes those valves don't seal right. They can definitely work sometimes though. I also had another one fail completely my fault, as the mold had a rough outer surface which punctured the bag. Also, as I understand it (definitely not a pro), this is wet layup method, also using vacuum. Alternative methods are resin infusion, requiring a vacuum pump pulling the resin into the vacuum bag through tubing setup for it, and using prepregnated sheets that I think require heat to help cure them. As stated though, I'm no pro and could be wrong.
So with the vacuum process do you leave the vacuum on for a certain amount of time? Or do you seal the bag then turn it off
my only question is how did you cap the vacuum bag without releasing the pressure?
In those type of bags, there is a 1 way valve that will hold vacuum long enough to get the cap back on.
what is the name of motor and cutter ? great work
So there's no heat treatment required for this process? How long did you leave it under vacuum for
Great Minds think alike!..I was thinking the sam thing but on a bigger scale for door panels and hradliners
Hello, it worked now and is ha solid material, but the gel coat is still sticky between the carbon and the original product.
What can I do that it isn’t sticky anymore?
Great video as always!
After you trimmed the carbon fiber, you should've sealed the edges with CA glue. Not sealing the edges can cause delamination.
Merhaba. Epoxy gel coat ve carbon fiber ile yapılan parçalar güneş ışığında dış ortamda şekil değişikliğine uğrar mı yamulur mu?
Nice job! 👍 Can I ask where you got the little blue plastic attachment you use to attach your vacuum bag to the vacuum cleaner? thanks
It's part of the plastic storage bag
What is the purpose of the gel coat in the first stop. Stronger than epoxy and polished better?
What oven do you have bro ?
Do you have the composition of the breathable cloth?
I'm in Canada so it's pretty expensive for the shipping if I buy from the link you provide
AFAIK, The vacuum level achievable with domestic vacuum cleaners and vacuum bags is typically not sufficient for a good quality wet layup process of carbon fiber epoxy parts. This process often requires a higher level of vacuum to ensure quality and structural integrity in composite materials like carbon fiber.
In the wet layup process, a vacuum is used to:
1. **Remove Air Bubbles**: To ensure there are no voids or air pockets that can weaken the material.
2. **Ensure Proper Resin Distribution**: To achieve a consistent resin-to-fiber ratio throughout the part.
3. **Compact the Layers**: To create a dense, uniform laminate with good fiber-to-resin adhesion.
The vacuum level required for this process is typically higher than what domestic vacuum cleaners can provide. Industrial vacuum pumps, often used in composite manufacturing, can reach vacuum levels of about 99% (or 0.1 kPa), which is significantly higher than the 80% (or 20 kPa) achieved by household vacuum cleaners.
In summary, while domestic vacuum cleaners can create a basic vacuum for general household tasks or simple vacuum bagging, they are not adequate for the more demanding requirements of carbon fiber epoxy wet layup processes. For such applications, specialized equipment designed to achieve and maintain a higher vacuum level is necessary.
That's looks great bro!!
dont have epoxy for carbon idk is it gone work with polyester hardner ?
I've tried this method on a piece of mine but I am struggling to let the carbon fiber adhere to the mould. What should I do to let the carbon fiber adhere perfectly to the surface mould?
How strong is it compared to oven baked? It certainly looks the part.
Not quite as strong, but for cosmetic parts it's perfect.
I think I know why, but why do you add a gelcoat layer first? I guess just for shine/hardness/UV stability for the outside? What brand gelcoat is it, and is it hard to get one compatible with the epoxy?
Hi, yes gel coat will add UV, and make the part easy to polish. Without gel coat you will struggle to get a nice shine
How did you get it to release from the mold
Great work but you should of wore gloves when laying both the ply and breather. A hand reaction may not happen instantly but can be bad in the long run.
Awesome!!
may i know what do you apply so the fiber and resin dont stick into the mold?
Mould release wax
How many minutes did you vaccume it sir?
About 1 minute
@Carbon Workshop hello I have a question: we may not see it in the video but do you pass your preparation in an oven? if so how long at how many degrees c?
With this part only room temperature was needed to cure.
Great content and instructional videos. Any suggestions where to get some of the products you recommend here in the US?
I checked with Composite Envisions here in the States, but they apparently don't offer a polyester gelcoat that is compatible with epoxy resin.
Anyway, any suggestions would be appreciated. Keep up the great videos!
Hi, I believe duratec sunshield is a good product, epoxy compatible and available in the US.
Thats a great idea 👍
How long does it have to be under vacuum?
I left under vacuum for just 30 seconds, and the rely on the seal on the bag.
@@CarbonWorkshops so if I understood correctly, I put it in the back, put it under vacuum for 30 seconds and then get it out of the bag?
@@seantex8041 Once vacuum bagged. Leave overnight to cure in the bag.
@@CarbonWorkshops or did you leave it for a longer time in the bag without the vacuum?
@@CarbonWorkshops thank you
is it important bake in the oven the carbon? i see this step in a lot of video. Sorry for my bad english but i am italian 🥲
The main reason is to post cure the resin to stop is distorting in hot sun light.
@@CarbonWorkshops thanks man!
@@CarbonWorkshops what happens if i cook it without the vacuum tube?
@@simoneperno2343 you might just get some bridging holes where the carbon has come away from the mould. The vacuum keeps everything tightly compact.
Круто!!! Но что с этим делать ? :)))
So let's ask this. These vacuum bags I see go for cheap Amazon for about 34$ US with the blue cap. Would you say these same bags can be cooked at 120° F? If it was discussed already I am sorry
Probably wouldn't take the temperature of 120deg. But you could cure the part the bags maximum temperature. And then take the part out of the bag and carry on the cure slowly.
Does using vacuum cleaner really works instead of pump?
I found the shop vac didn't create enough pressure to get good detail.
It won't create as much vacuum, so it won't work as well but it does work. Wouldn't recommend using a vacuum cleaner for structural parts. A vacuum cleaner also relies on air flow to cool it, so if you use a vacuum cleaner for this a lot it will burn out, especially if run continuously on leaking bagging jobs like boat or surfboard repair where it is difficult to get a complete seal.
How many long u vacuum the mould? Until let dry or what?
You can leave as long as you want. I turned it off after 1 minute and relied on the bag seal
what would happen if you just bag it without peel ply and without breather cloth
The bag would stick the part, and excess resin probably get stuck to the mould edges / reverse.
Hello, can I know the white cloth name?
Breather cloth. Link in the description
which one the best polish compound between McGuire's,3m and g3?
I use g360. Works very well
what is the straight aluminium sanding block that you use ? thanks
permagrit block
Hello, I left it in the vacuum bag for 10 hours but it still was soft and sticky. Did I do something wrong with the mixture or was it to short in the bag?
My guess is resins not weighed correctly, or cured for 10 hours in cold temperature.
@@CarbonWorkshops of had about 22 degrees Celcius. I tried to use 25 ml resin + 7.5 ml Catalyst, but since it was normal house temperature it should be the resin that went wrong, since there is no other way to tell what else it could be
*I had
@@CarbonWorkshops there is no other way to weight the resins and catalyst correctly other than with a measuring cup
@@seantex8041 you could try weighing the resin with high accuracy scales?
Very cool. Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
Looks good quality, do you make anything for the rocus rs
No sorry mate
While likely accurate, your cost calculations leave much to be desired IMHO. I'd prefer to see initial outlay values rather than cost-per-use or cost-per-piece values. As I see it, that's how most folks would have to begin.
hi! someone know a web site in EU i can buy these products?
I believe easy composites do
Oh Henry, is there nothing you can't do? :D
5 pounds plus 10 thousand hours to master the art.
I cant believe that the materials are so cheap
You forgot to add your time to the cost price, as well as the time spent on mistakes, before obtaining mastery.
This is where the cost price and the final price of carbon are formed =)
Great video - "ANNOYING MUSIC"
its spelled V...CUUM
no gloves xD