Ok, I think I bought the first one with the mod. We drove it home from Utah to Southern California. 80mph no issues. I was towing with a GMC 2500. Sway was never an issue. Shane and the crew nailed it. Yes it’s a pain with the unmodified units to open up the bed area. Great Job ROA.
I have driven that highway many times traveling, speed limit maybe 70 the traffic flow is more like 85-90 I can’t even imagine with all that sway, you might be pulled over for being under an influence! My rental moving trailer did so much better than that, brave Shane! I am surprised you hadn’t been honked at by 6:25 mark on video! Coming back to finish video later! I love your videos!
I just towed my Dweller 15 two hours to our camp with my Gladiator and had no issues whatsoever. I had to hit the brake controller properly 4 times and I could hit 70 to 75 easily. When I was at 60 there were times I forgot I was towing. Not sure why I’m not having the issues they’re talking about. Maybe because I’m on 37’s, 5:13 gears, filled the tires to max pressure, had a extra cooler, generator, and a shit load of wood in the back? I did take off one spare tire? Either way we love our Dweller, love what ROA does and we’ll be planning a stop to Utah this summer for some kitchen upgrades! Keep up the great work!
Maybe you have more weight in the front which balances it out more. You sure you wanna go that fast towing a trailer? You know speed and low tire pressure are the two main reasons tires get hot and go boom?
Not looking to go fast but just giving a different perspective to towing the Dweller without any upgrades. I averaged 60 to 70 on the last trip with hitting the high end’s going downhill.
Your solution makes sense; weight x arm = moment. Think teeter totter and every in away from center (either way) is a moment. You made 4 moment changes; 1 removed 2 tires from back. Considering there were 2 HEAVY tires, that a big deal. 2. They ere sticking out 2 ft, that is a HUGE moment. Even a light weight with that much arm is impactful, but TWO off road tires? Forgettaboutit! 3. Moved the front tool box fwd. This is now shifting Cg fwd of center 4 finally, moving the tire fwd. Not only did you remove it from aft Cg, you added it to fwd Cg, multiplying the Delta of Cg. The only downside to all of this is tongue weight. Moving all that Cg fwd gave you greater inherent synamic stability but also shifted weight onto the fwd arm which in turns increase tongue weight. With that said, it looks like the F150 barely noticed so all but the smallest tow vehicles should handle this mod. PS, I'm an airline Captain who does Cg computations daily so you can take this to the bank. In your case, literally! 🍻
QUESTION: When you did this test, what was the state of the 2 freshwater and 1 gray water tank? Were they empty? both full gray empty?? Does it help if you want to leave the spare wheels on the rear to fill the front freshwater and leave the rear empty till you get to your destination?? ALSO: i'm watching your in train driver camera shots and it appears you do not have enough drop on the shank?? the Dweller is NOT level, it's got a distinct tilt back so if you had enough drop on the shank to level the Dweller?? would that do it? When you get to the dirt you can swap shanks to something higher 4" drop vs 10" drop for off road ground clearance??
I have a D15 that I upgraded the shocks on and I limit my speed to 65MPH consistently (no WD hitch.) The real challenge comes when: 1. A semi passes you, buffeting the rig 2. Going into turns above 60MPH. In my opinion, the real contributors to the sway are the independent suspension and the VERY heavy spare tires hanging WAY off the back. The mod they showed makes a lot of sense. I've heard differing opinions on the effect of sway control on the D15. I wouldn't do it because the D15 doesn't suffer from sway as much as it does roll; there is a vertical component to the action on the trailer that you wouldn't see on a standard single axle travel trailer. Having used sway control before, I'm doubtful of its effectiveness. I load the front of the trailer to counteract the rolling motion and it seems to help. For instance, leave the gray tank loaded when on the open road; or put heavy stuff in the front locker.
Maybe the D15 would benefit from shocks that you can adjust the stiffness. It would definitely add to the cost since it would need four of them though. 💸
ROA please market the spare tire mount you made with the move to the front modifications. You stated you will not modify trailers you did not sell. I am a second owner, purchased from original private party owner. However, I am interested in making the spare and storage box modification myself. Dweller 13 towed with Jeep Gladiator Ecodiesel
Umm...very good commercial. However, sway like that is often the result of not having enough tongue weight... proper set up is to first get the trailer loaded as it will be travelling, and then weigh each corner and insure you've got the standard 60/40 front rear weight distribution. I can get any set up swaying like that by rear loading...your little demo can show that. Another issue could be suspension induced steering have you considered an Anti-Sway bar with quick disconnects like we use on our Jeeps?
As a general rule when you tow: 60% of the weight needs to be forward of the trailer axle/axles. Sway happens on tail heavy trailers. Pretrip your trailer, your driver side trailer brake lights were not working, makes the manufacturer look bad aswell.
Really appreciate the information very detailed however also very repetitive. This could have been 15 minutes easy or less. I had a 20ft cargo trailer loaded for a long trip. Handed terrible, the problem was an engine block loaded in the rear. Moved it forward over the axles and it handled perfectly.
I just picked up a MARS13 (Black Series budget trailer) and it's a 19 ft almost EXACTLY like this Dweller trailer. It came with two spares as well and it made no sense to me, so I removed the entire carrier, just 'cause I thought it was too much weight at the rear. Mine didn't have the sway, but this vid just confirms leaving my spares off the trailer...
@@gregdavey It's been great- Tows excellent. A few "Chinese" issues with it as far as loose fastners, but other than that it's perfect for two people... Only bummer is ONE bed (King) so my buddies can't share the trailer like when I had a tent trailer with TWO separate beds...
I cannot believe the manufacture leaves those big tires hanging off the back knowing there are sway issues LOL. As soon as I saw those tires on the back I knew exactly what the problem was....well the main problem anyway! You know what though....it looks cool and they know that's all that matters to most people. It's like the superduty guys who jack them up then tow with them. Makes no sense, but it looks cool!
Test, don't guess. Get a trailer Tounge weight scale and see what the trailer Tounge weight actually is. Axels can be scaled side to side to check load balance. Weight Distribution Hitches should be disconnected when going offroad. Drive through a ditch or pop over a steep rise and traction is one thing you may loose or it could bend the trailer or truck frame.
This is simple physics. I've towed for 30 plus years and if you're tongue light you will have sway. The weight and balance from the manufacturer with regard to the two spare tires in the rear cause this "tongue light" scenario. I was looking a purchasing one of these as a back-country unit but this video tells me to look elsewhere. If the manufacturer won't do the appropriate R&D prior to sale then putting that on the dealer to correct it is a big no, especially for what you're spending.
It's all about balance you can accomplish the exact same thing that Shane did in this video by filling the front water tank i.e. adding weight to the front of the trailer I'm curious the first dweller that Shane tested did it even have propane tanks upfront? Was it a brand-new dweller right off the lot with no weight in it whatsoever? I did upgrade my shocks to Monro heavy-duty. I like to tow with water in my tanks. I don't drive at 80 miles an hour but I've definitely been very comfortable on the interstate slightly over 65 mph. It all depends on the road conditions. I do like the looks of the trailer without the spare tires hanging out the back. Can't imagine what this upgrade costs. Just my two cents.
Depends on what you're doing. If long haul, interstate travel is a small part of your trips, the D15 has a lot to offer. It's just not a dual axle TT; it's sweet spot is forest roads, BLM lands, overlanding etc.
Well the upgrade is to remove the weight from the rear of the trailer.....take off those heavy ass tires and put them on the front. You can do that yourself for free. BTW a tandem axle trailer will do the same if you overload the rear. Your thoughts on a single axle trailer is flawed. I've owned 3 single axles....2 cheap Rpods and an Airstream. None of them swayed cause I never overloaded the rear of the trailer.
@@joeschmoe7951 Well now Joe....You're one trailer pulling, problem solving dude!! I don't care what you say or have pulled, two axles always trail better than single! But hey, you do you there Joe!
Honestly, a trailer shouldn't even leave the factory like this and I wouldn't pay extra to have it done. I am fully aware of how trailer loading can affect sway but to have a stock empty trailer behave like this is complete shit and unsafe. If it came with those upgrades at no extra cost, you'd probably have another sale.
Zero sway problems!!!!!!!! I just got back from camping trip and traveled over 300 miles with zero sway issues. I own a Dweller 15 that is stock except for Monroe heavy-duty shock absorbers upgraded. I don't use a weight distribution system only the factory installed the McHitch system. I tow with a Toyota Tundra. I traveled on bouncy levy highways, windy mountain highways and windy Interstate 5 where I went as fast as 72 mph while overtaking. No issues! Clearly in this video the first truck towing is not set up correctly. The test is very flawed, why wasn't the same tow vehicle used? I think someone just wants to sell you a bunch of extras. I do tow with water in my tanks, yes this slightly reduces MPG but is still cheaper than spending $1,000 on an unnecessary weight distribution set up or some other modification like removing the spare tires.
This is misleading. You are acting like it doesn’t have any issues whatsoever… The Dweller 15 is simply unsafe to tow without being modified. You should change your message. Saying ZERO SWAY PROBLEM when you are towing it modified. You could mislead someone and lead to an accident. We feel it is better to be honest and safe than lie and mislead people into thinking it tows great. The trailer can’t be towed over 60mph stock without being dangerous.
ROA please market the spare tire mount you made with the move to the front modifications. You stated you will not modify trailers you did not sell. I am a second owner, purchased from original private party owner. However, I am interested in making the spare and storage box modification myself. Dweller 13 towed with Jeep Gladiator Ecodiesel
Ok, I think I bought the first one with the mod. We drove it home from Utah to Southern California. 80mph no issues. I was towing with a GMC 2500. Sway was never an issue. Shane and the crew nailed it. Yes it’s a pain with the unmodified units to open up the bed area. Great Job ROA.
I have driven that highway many times traveling, speed limit maybe 70 the traffic flow is more like 85-90 I can’t even imagine with all that sway, you might be pulled over for being under an influence! My rental moving trailer did so much better than that, brave Shane! I am surprised you hadn’t been honked at by 6:25 mark on video! Coming back to finish video later!
I love your videos!
i was wondering if you can also do this mode on the D13 to make it also easer to setup? I would think you can but not 100% sure.
I am looking at models with thos floor plan. Do your other trailer need this adjustment or just the ones with two tires on the back
I just towed my Dweller 15 two hours to our camp with my Gladiator and had no issues whatsoever. I had to hit the brake controller properly 4 times and I could hit 70 to 75 easily. When I was at 60 there were times I forgot I was towing. Not sure why I’m not having the issues they’re talking about. Maybe because I’m on 37’s, 5:13 gears, filled the tires to max pressure, had a extra cooler, generator, and a shit load of wood in the back? I did take off one spare tire? Either way we love our Dweller, love what ROA does and we’ll be planning a stop to Utah this summer for some kitchen upgrades! Keep up the great work!
Maybe you have more weight in the front which balances it out more. You sure you wanna go that fast towing a trailer? You know speed and low tire pressure are the two main reasons tires get hot and go boom?
Not looking to go fast but just giving a different perspective to towing the Dweller without any upgrades. I averaged 60 to 70 on the last trip with hitting the high end’s going downhill.
Nice job on explaining what needs to be done to pull the trailer safely. You guys continue to do amazing work!
Awesome adjustments made! You make great tests and proven improvements. Well done. What a difference.
Brilliant! Not only fixes a problem but it looks amazing! And makes the setup easier!
Awesome must have mod!
Your solution makes sense; weight x arm = moment. Think teeter totter and every in away from center (either way) is a moment.
You made 4 moment changes;
1 removed 2 tires from back. Considering there were 2 HEAVY tires, that a big deal. 2. They ere sticking out 2 ft, that is a HUGE moment. Even a light weight with that much arm is impactful, but TWO off road tires? Forgettaboutit!
3. Moved the front tool box fwd. This is now shifting Cg fwd of center
4 finally, moving the tire fwd. Not only did you remove it from aft Cg, you added it to fwd Cg, multiplying the Delta of Cg.
The only downside to all of this is tongue weight. Moving all that Cg fwd gave you greater inherent synamic stability but also shifted weight onto the fwd arm which in turns increase tongue weight. With that said, it looks like the F150 barely noticed so all but the smallest tow vehicles should handle this mod.
PS, I'm an airline Captain who does Cg computations daily so you can take this to the bank. In your case, literally! 🍻
Where does the second spare tire go? I only saw one tire moved up fron with the mod.
Nice proactive customer service.
Can this mod be done at your SC location? How long does it take to complete the mod, we bought ours at your Utah location and towed it home to PA.
Was the second test only relocating the tires? No suspension or hitch upgrades?
QUESTION: When you did this test, what was the state of the 2 freshwater and 1 gray water tank? Were they empty? both full gray empty?? Does it help if you want to leave the spare wheels on the rear to fill the front freshwater and leave the rear empty till you get to your destination??
ALSO: i'm watching your in train driver camera shots and it appears you do not have enough drop on the shank?? the Dweller is NOT level, it's got a distinct tilt back so if you had enough drop on the shank to level the Dweller?? would that do it? When you get to the dirt you can swap shanks to something higher 4" drop vs 10" drop for off road ground clearance??
I have a D15 that I upgraded the shocks on and I limit my speed to 65MPH consistently (no WD hitch.) The real challenge comes when: 1. A semi passes you, buffeting the rig 2. Going into turns above 60MPH.
In my opinion, the real contributors to the sway are the independent suspension and the VERY heavy spare tires hanging WAY off the back. The mod they showed makes a lot of sense.
I've heard differing opinions on the effect of sway control on the D15. I wouldn't do it because the D15 doesn't suffer from sway as much as it does roll; there is a vertical component to the action on the trailer that you wouldn't see on a standard single axle travel trailer. Having used sway control before, I'm doubtful of its effectiveness. I load the front of the trailer to counteract the rolling motion and it seems to help. For instance, leave the gray tank loaded when on the open road; or put heavy stuff in the front locker.
Maybe the D15 would benefit from shocks that you can adjust the stiffness. It would definitely add to the cost since it would need four of them though. 💸
Are you havening problems with the O2 Alarm sensor going off when first set up?
ROA please market the spare tire mount you made with the move to the front modifications. You stated you will not modify trailers you did not sell. I am a second owner, purchased from original private party owner. However, I am interested in making the spare and storage box modification myself. Dweller 13 towed with Jeep Gladiator Ecodiesel
Will a Jeep Gladiator Rubicon be able to tow this??
Umm...very good commercial. However, sway like that is often the result of not having enough tongue weight... proper set up is to first get the trailer loaded as it will be travelling, and then weigh each corner and insure you've got the standard 60/40 front rear weight distribution. I can get any set up swaying like that by rear loading...your little demo can show that. Another issue could be suspension induced steering have you considered an Anti-Sway bar with quick disconnects like we use on our Jeeps?
As a general rule when you tow: 60% of the weight needs to be forward of the trailer axle/axles. Sway happens on tail heavy trailers.
Pretrip your trailer, your driver side trailer brake lights were not working, makes the manufacturer look bad aswell.
Really appreciate the information very detailed however also very repetitive. This could have been 15 minutes easy or less. I had a 20ft cargo trailer loaded for a long trip. Handed terrible, the problem was an engine block loaded in the rear. Moved it forward over the axles and it handled perfectly.
I was hoping to get a peek of what the inside of that dexter looks like. You haven’t had very many of those videos.
I just picked up a MARS13 (Black Series budget trailer) and it's a 19 ft almost EXACTLY like this Dweller trailer. It came with two spares as well and it made no sense to me, so I removed the entire carrier, just 'cause I thought it was too much weight at the rear. Mine didn't have the sway, but this vid just confirms leaving my spares off the trailer...
How do you like the Mars 13? There is one for sale a few hours from me and might go see it. I have not seen any reviews from a third party. Thanks.
@@gregdavey It's been great- Tows excellent. A few "Chinese" issues with it as far as loose fastners, but other than that it's perfect for two people... Only bummer is ONE bed (King) so my buddies can't share the trailer like when I had a tent trailer with TWO separate beds...
Thanks a bunch. We have a OP4 but my wife wants something more refined.
Getting rid of those two spare tires off the back of the trailer would make a huge difference.
I guess I should have waited till the end of the video before making that comment, sorry!
I cannot believe the manufacture leaves those big tires hanging off the back knowing there are sway issues LOL. As soon as I saw those tires on the back I knew exactly what the problem was....well the main problem anyway! You know what though....it looks cool and they know that's all that matters to most people. It's like the superduty guys who jack them up then tow with them. Makes no sense, but it looks cool!
Great video, great solution.
Test, don't guess. Get a trailer Tounge weight scale and see what the trailer Tounge weight actually is. Axels can be scaled side to side to check load balance. Weight Distribution Hitches should be disconnected when going offroad. Drive through a ditch or pop over a steep rise and traction is one thing you may loose or it could bend the trailer or truck frame.
This is simple physics. I've towed for 30 plus years and if you're tongue light you will have sway. The weight and balance from the manufacturer with regard to the two spare tires in the rear cause this "tongue light" scenario. I was looking a purchasing one of these as a back-country unit but this video tells me to look elsewhere. If the manufacturer won't do the appropriate R&D prior to sale then putting that on the dealer to correct it is a big no, especially for what you're spending.
The Power Wagon may be a 2500, but the payload and towing capacity is worse than my F150 FX4.
It's all about balance you can accomplish the exact same thing that Shane did in this video by filling the front water tank i.e. adding weight to the front of the trailer I'm curious the first dweller that Shane tested did it even have propane tanks upfront? Was it a brand-new dweller right off the lot with no weight in it whatsoever? I did upgrade my shocks to Monro heavy-duty. I like to tow with water in my tanks. I don't drive at 80 miles an hour but I've definitely been very comfortable on the interstate slightly over 65 mph. It all depends on the road conditions. I do like the looks of the trailer without the spare tires hanging out the back. Can't imagine what this upgrade costs. Just my two cents.
I would expect a trooper would put you over as it looks like you're DUI.
Typical single axle trailer. What are these "Up-grades" gonna cost a guy? Just another added cost. Personally I woun't own one, for that reason alone.
Depends on what you're doing. If long haul, interstate travel is a small part of your trips, the D15 has a lot to offer. It's just not a dual axle TT; it's sweet spot is forest roads, BLM lands, overlanding etc.
@@rebby11 There is always a certain amount of Interstate, or State route driving where I live before you get to the fun stuff
Well the upgrade is to remove the weight from the rear of the trailer.....take off those heavy ass tires and put them on the front. You can do that yourself for free. BTW a tandem axle trailer will do the same if you overload the rear. Your thoughts on a single axle trailer is flawed. I've owned 3 single axles....2 cheap Rpods and an Airstream. None of them swayed cause I never overloaded the rear of the trailer.
@@joeschmoe7951 Well now Joe....You're one trailer pulling, problem solving dude!! I don't care what you say or have pulled, two axles always trail better than single! But hey, you do you there Joe!
@@kenuber4014 Now Ken, you are one topic changing dude!! I didn't say a single axle tows better than a tandem. What did I say?
They need to push the axle back about 12 inches
they need a dual axle
Honestly, a trailer shouldn't even leave the factory like this and I wouldn't pay extra to have it done. I am fully aware of how trailer loading can affect sway but to have a stock empty trailer behave like this is complete shit and unsafe. If it came with those upgrades at no extra cost, you'd probably have another sale.
Zero sway problems!!!!!!!! I just got back from camping trip and traveled over 300 miles with zero sway issues. I own a Dweller 15 that is stock except for Monroe heavy-duty shock absorbers upgraded. I don't use a weight distribution system only the factory installed the McHitch system. I tow with a Toyota Tundra. I traveled on bouncy levy highways, windy mountain highways and windy Interstate 5 where I went as fast as 72 mph while overtaking. No issues! Clearly in this video the first truck towing is not set up correctly. The test is very flawed, why wasn't the same tow vehicle used? I think someone just wants to sell you a bunch of extras. I do tow with water in my tanks, yes this slightly reduces MPG but is still cheaper than spending $1,000 on an unnecessary weight distribution set up or some other modification like removing the spare tires.
100% stock but upgraded the shocks 😂
@@all-terraindain4954 good catch, I stand corrected 98% stock
This is misleading. You are acting like it doesn’t have any issues whatsoever… The Dweller 15 is simply unsafe to tow without being modified. You should change your message. Saying ZERO SWAY PROBLEM when you are towing it modified. You could mislead someone and lead to an accident. We feel it is better to be honest and safe than lie and mislead people into thinking it tows great. The trailer can’t be towed over 60mph stock without being dangerous.
I want to buy one, but after this video i dont want to cause an accident .😅
Use a mid size truck
ROA please market the spare tire mount you made with the move to the front modifications. You stated you will not modify trailers you did not sell. I am a second owner, purchased from original private party owner. However, I am interested in making the spare and storage box modification myself. Dweller 13 towed with Jeep Gladiator Ecodiesel