Camera Light Metering Basic to Advanced Pt. 3 - Spot Metering
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- Опубликовано: 11 июл 2024
- In today's video we look at basic spot metering. I discuss how and why we use this kind of metering and if it's worth it. I briefly look at the zone system to see how we use spot metering to place shadows in the correct zone. We also touch on "Exposing for the shadows".
John
www.pictorialplanet.com
I learned more from these 3 metering videos than I did over several weeks of watching other videos and blog posts. FANTASTIC approach to teaching this.
Thanks, Mark!
I agree it's my new favorite channel and I am sharing with our students at school.
@ebreevephoto Thanks!
@@PictorialPlanet
Agreed, good, sound teaching. Ansel Adams himself was not this good.
I do appreciate you kept it on Spot, but the photographers natural curiosity says, ‘compare to incident’ and I always wonder where it would fall.
You are a good teacher!
This channel should have more followers. It is quite informative and John explains in a didactic and simple way each topic. Thank you John!!! 🙂
I keep coming back to this video when I need a refresher course - it really is THE video on the topic.
Thank you, TCM!
Great; finally somebody is explaining the zone system in a plain simple manner (for dummies like me :-)
And me! It's the only way I "get it". Thanks for your comment my friend!
This is the clearest and most concise explanation of how the zone system works. I’ve been confused about it for months. Thank you for providing such a great depth of knowledge John!
I have returned to film phoitography and find myself using a handheld lightmeter for the first time in 50 years. Your short series on metering is very helpful
Thank you, Jim.
This is the closest I have gooten to understanding the infamous zone system, thank you, I will consider ordering Your book...
Thank you!
You are a wonderful teacher! All of your videos have helped me. Thank you!
Thank you for these kind words.
I've thought of the system similarly, on N-development. Those are the important points. Zone system developing is about bringing the dynamic scene back to those 3 important zones mostly.
Fantastic series. Short and simple but very informative. I really like seeing the final image at the end, it really helps with visualization! I grew up with smartphones and digital cameras but have dove head first into the world of analog. Thanks for the videos, it's great knowledge!
Glad you liked it, Leonhard. Stay with me and there will be plenty more. I really appreciate your comment!
@@PictorialPlanetI will! Your new f-stop darkroom printing video is great as well :)
This is the simplest explanation of correct spot metering technique I have seen. Excellent!
Thanks Dennis!
I love that the chicken appeared in the doorway of the coop just in time for you to take the picture. He wanted to be in the picture too lol 😂
Best explanation ever, finally
Very kind, Richard!
It could be interesting to see what are the results of metering and photographing the same scene with these two different methods. Thanks, that was useful and fun!
Simply amazing explanation and thank you for sharing your know how in a manner which is easy to follow, consume and digest. Also well-done to the chicken for playing it's part too; that did make me smile :) Cheers.
Just saw this video. Seems to be perfect 😊 Will see it again and make a test. Thank you so much 😘
Very useful ,thank you John .
Cheers Lau
Such an important subject and very, very well done.
Yes, very important, thank you!
Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
Thank you, Marcell!
Great video thanks for making this!
Thank you
Thank you. Great video!
Cheers Franz!
Very clearly explained John 👍
Thank you sir!
Very good. Thanks. I learned a lot from this series.
Thanks, Larry.
I really appraciate all your videos, such a clear simple way to understand, and great quality of sound and video making... Thank you so much for sharing
Thank you Nasser!
Very well explained video. Now i understand more of the zone system
That's great Miguel! Thanks for your comment.
Hi John, just discovered your channel and I am absolutely thrilled: such an informative channel and everything explained in a very pleasant way. Good luck with your channel and all the best from the Netherlands.
Thank you, Ralph and welcome aboard :)
Excellent teaching video.
Thank you, Fabio!
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you!
Great explanation, I rarely change just the aperture especially with the possibility of movement within the scene. For some reason I have gotten in the habit of adjusting shutter speed first. Very clear and thorough, can’t wait to try it.
You know, I tend to use shutter speed to for my landscapes, good point. I guess, in my explanation, I went for shutter speed. Good comment, thank you Dante.
Great explanation
I must say that the Pentax spot meter makes this so much simpler , watching you do
all the mental arithmetic reminds me of why my sekonic is gathering dust
The truth be known I could have switched to EV mode but I felt that would muddy the waters for those with simpler meters or those with only their camera meters.
You're a really good presenter👍, I shoot digital but have shot b/w film in highschool and boy oh boy there's so many nuances and technique to developing film that I never thought about when developing in class back in the day.
Thanks for your comment, you are very kind. I guess you're right about all the nuances of developing black and white. I think that's what I enjoyed most about it.
great vid mate
Thanks Drew!
This one video would have taught me so much when I first started haha
Well explained. Thnx.
Cheers, Georg!
Great video, as always, John, so clearly explained. With my Sekonic I switch from aperture priority to EV as I find it is easier to count the difference than calculate in f-stops.
Hi Robert! Yes, that's a future video for sure. I like to start with what I know everyone will have and then advance to more functionality. As alway, I really appreciate your watching and commenting as a professional.
I wanted to say exactly the same thing. The math is so much easier when reading in EVs and only converting to aperture/f-stop as the last step. I also find it very convenient to have a lightmeter with a manual EV to aperture/f-stop calculator (i.e. a simple printed dial) rather than an electronic display.
@@PictorialPlanet Not at all, you have a great channel. Tbh, I love my old Soligor spot as you can see all the ap/ss variables at a glance and with my homemade zone sticker see, as you turn the dial, where they fall. Keep up the excellent work 👍
Totally agree, TTL!
Thank you great video Sir!
Many thanks, Jerry!
that's amazing thank you
You're welcome!
Follow up to my last comment. I have watched a ton of videos on using light meters and spot metering, your explanation is presented clearly and easy to put into practice. I haven’t seen any other camera specific videos from you. I would recommend you touch on the various manual focusing techniques as well as using aperture and shutter speed for different effects. Just a thought.
Nice idea Dante! Thanks 🙏
Very useful info, as always, John. However, a couple of important points, IMO, are: 1) the exposure scale really doesn't mean a lot until one locks down a person EI through testing, and 2) any light meter's response to different colors of light can vary quite a bit. Experience through many exposures will ultimately lock down technique.
Good additions, Alan. My earlier video matching your developer to your film will hopefully encourage, 1. As for 2, yes, there's no replacement for experience. I hope some photographers try spot metering and start to gain that experience :)
great material thanks for sharing. I got here from your website, and to your website from a forum where you posted. Friendly suggestion, when clicking on a youtube link from you website it should open a new tab, because at the moment it leaves the website. thanks!
Good tip, thanks! I'll update the website today.
Thank you for the great videos, very easy and simple to follow, professionally to the point! I have a question though, how do we use light meters to average the scene?......I'm lost on this point and really hope you could elaborate...thanks!
Hi Martin and thanks for the kind words! By far the best way to get an average of a scene is to use incident metering. Another way would be to carry a grey card and meter that in the same lighting. However, in black and white photography in exposes for the shadows and develops for the highlights. Exposing for the shadows means to measure the shadows in the scene and stop down two stops from that reading.
@@PictorialPlanet Thank you so much for replying, good luck with the channel and I look forward to much more great videos!
Hi! Thank you for the videos. I have learnt a lot from them. Do you have an opinion on using digital cameras as light meter? I do a lot of street and often use my pocket digital camera to get a quick reading of the scene.
Hi J and thanks for watching my videos. Glad you're getting something out of them! Using a digital camera as a meter is a great idea. Many modern digital cameras have very good meters, even spot meters, and can be used close up to emulate a spot meter. The only thing they don't do is take incident light meter readings but if you use spit metering they are great. Go for it!
Hi John. Appreciate your videos and advice. I have been using film for over a year mainly B&W from Ilford. I didn’t understand a few things:
1) shadows metered will give a reading consistent with Zone 5. To place shadows at Zone 3, shouldn’t you I overexpose by 2 stops ? Namely F2.8 at 1/15 ? By using F5.6 at 1/60, you’re underexposing by 2 stops ?
2) for landscape compositions do you recommend spot metering rather than incident metering if the scene is a ways off ?
Thank you
Hi Baladino! Great questions. Ok, 1. Shadows are darker than zone 5 medium grey. If you meter your shadows your meter gives zone 5. So you close down to make them darker.
2. This is interesting. Incident metering is the easiest way, as long as you're in the same lighting. If your landscape subject is in sun then your incident meter should be in sun and pointing toward the lens. I'm sure you know that. But, when you start using a spot meter you get used to metering for the shadows and highlights, checking they are within the latitude of the film and so on. So I do find it hard not to use my spot meter. Truth be known, Baladino, if I used incident or spot my results would probably be the same!
Thank you for your question.
John
Great tutorial! Thank you. What light meter do you use?
Sekonic L758
Thank you @@PictorialPlanet
Great info. When shooting landscapes it's difficult to get close to the subject to meter. Is there a work around for metering from a distance? Thank you.
Hi Ron. The light falling on your distant landscape is the same as the light falling around you. So a shadow next to you is the same as a shadow in the distance. Meter the shadow next to you (the meter will read mid-grey) and close down two stops and you have the correct metering for the scene. The problem comes when your distant landscape is sunlit and there's a huge cloud over you. Well, clouds cast shadows, that's why it's dull under a cloud, so meter some mid-grey area near you (in the cloud's shadow), close down two stops and you have the correct metering for the sunlit landscape in the distance. What if the opposite is the case, you are in sun and the distant landscape is in shadow? Meter a grassy or green leafy shadow near you and you have the metering for the distance.
Another great informative video, John! Quick question. By moving the shadows from Zone 5 to 3, will this also be moving the highlights in this image from Zone 8 to 6?
Thank for you comment, ND! When the spot meter measured the shadows it didn't know what it was looking at and it placed them at zone 5. It had pulled them up from 3 to 5! If we set that on our camera (1/60th at 2.8) the shadows would have been two stops too bright and the highlights would also have been two stops too bright too being pushed up to zone 10. All this because the meter thought the shadows were zone 5 (meters think everything is zone 5). We know better so we close the camera down two stops from the reading, placing the shadows in their correct zone (3). The upshot of which pulls the highlights down two stops too from 10 (in this case) to zone 8.
@@PictorialPlanet thanks for the explanation. I'm still trying to get a grasp on this whole spot metering and zone system technique. I normally just take an incident reading but feel I need to move to the system you just showed.
@@PictorialPlanet Helpful written explanation on this meter reading, which clarified that the meter is always trying to average at zone 5 in shadows and the desire to get shadows to zone 3 to expose correctly.
Easy to understand...many thanks....one question...you will reduce development time by 30%? to keep the highlights from blowing out...correct?
No, the highlights are 5 stops higher than the shadows. I placed my shadows on zone 3 so my highlights are zone 8. No need to reduce development time at all. Why do you think I should have?
Nice, thanks.
Do you want explain what is N+ or N- in development?
I might do a video on it one day.
Hi john!! Did you rated your film at box speed? What will happen to the zones if i use the same metering technique but rating my film +1 stop?
Hi Asaf! I rated my film at the EI for the film (EI40 for PAN F with Rodinal ). I found the EI through testing. See my video Matching your film to your developer.
HELLO John. Thanx for your information. I have a question. Not sure how to average out the different readings. In this example you close 2 stops but there is 5 stops difference between shadows and highlights... So what determines the average.? And secondly I use my cameras spot meter. Is that ok also?
Thank you.
Hi Winston. I don't average the readings. I expose for the shadows and develop for the highlights. Shadows (with detail) are always in zone 3 so I check their exposure with the meter (tell me their zone 5 exposure) and close down from that to zone 3. That's the shadows placed correctly. Now I check how much higher the highlights (with detail) are from the shadows. If it's 5 stops then perfect, I need do nothing more than process the film normally. If It's more than 5 stops I adjust development time to account for the over exposure. See my other videos on the zone matching my film to the developer. Also, my book The Art of Black and White Developing covers this.
Hi John, will this technique work with all b/w films, for example Ilford pan f.? Thanks Edward
Hi Edward. Yes, this is for all B&W films.
is it possible to use this zone system in studio / strobe setting, my Minolta can read flash reflective and incident, if so, what is the algo? is it the same read the shadow reflective and stop down 2 stops or a different approach…thx.
You could use the zone system with reflective meter readings with flash no problem. Not with incident though, that's not zone system work.
Did you ever do the video on Zones 9 & 10 (as you mention at 3m40)?
Yes, N- development is covered here :
ruclips.net/video/c6Q5nc1Xsno/видео.html
how would you expose color positive film? shadoes in zone 3 and highlights in zone 7?thnaks
With colour positive film (aka slide film) place the highlights and let the shadows fall where they will. You can't adjust development time like black and white film.
Hi again, another question. What if i want to use a fixed apperture e.x f11 or f8 and close two steps down on the time instead. how do i do that?
example: i want to use f8 and get time 125. Should i then go to 250 or 30? Thanks
If you measured the shadows at F8 at 125 and wanted to close down two stops using shutter speed you'd set F8 at 500. Just think that you need to darken the shadows by 2 stops - to darken you'd use a faster shutter speed.
@@PictorialPlanet ok thank you, i Will try that on my next time
In the beginning, you said green grass is almost always in middle grey zone. So in this case, can we just take a measurement of the green grass and dial in for that EV ?
You can, and as a quick and rough exposure reading I've done that many times. It works especially well in photojournalism and candid work where I have no time to takes long meter readings. But remember grass is around mid-grey and should be in the same general light as the photograph is. It is not as accurate as taking meter readings as described in the video. To me, as a black and white photographer it's my shadows that are most important so placing them in zone 3 is perfect for 90% of my photographs.
Why the direction of metering was not aligned with the axis of the lens, or the perspective deceived my eye in the video?
Good point. It's hard when demonstrating but for best results it would be better to be in the same axis as the lens.
But how do you adjust if the highlights are outside the latitude of the film so they are not blown out and still have detail of the shadows...................
ruclips.net/video/c6Q5nc1Xsno/видео.html
Is there a way to do a spot meter without owing a light meter that has that capability?
Yes there is. Walk up close to the area you wish to spot meter and use your camera meter, filling the frame with the point you wish to spot meter. Camera meters do not have to be used to meter the whole scene. They can equally be used to meter the shadows or highlights by filling the frame with those values and metering them.
@@PictorialPlanet following this method, then, if using a camera with no built-in meter, you could do the same (getting up close) with your light meter in reflective mode? Obviously this wouldn't work for grand landscape shots, but more for images in your example?
Yes, use your meter on reflective mode and get right up to what you want to meter. Careful of your shadow of course. Nota also that it works for landscapes if you expose for the shadows (develop for the highlights). The shadows around you are the same as the shadows in the distance.
@@PictorialPlanet that's a great tip about the shadows!
Your descriptions of the Zones are incorrect.
Zone 0 is a black void in the scene like the deep recesses of a cave. Zone 1 is a black object like a magic 8-Ball in the scene but on the print it must be RENDERED as dark gray to CONTRAST on the print with the Zone 0 void RENDERED with the max. black the print can produce with MINIMUM exposure. Exposing the print with just enough exposure to get max. black but no more is a critical part of Adam’s approach due to the response to light of the silver halides on the film as seen on the DlogE curve for the film which has a curved toe in the Zone 1 and Zone 2 values then a higher contrast straight logarithmic response in all the other Zone values. To get the very subtle gradients in the shadow that Adams did on #2 print paper great care must be taken when exposing the print.
What we Zone System purists would do back in the day is file our negative carriers larger than the frame so the film base would print a black border on every print proving that the image wasn’t cropped during printing and exposure of Zone 1 scene contact was reproduced with the first density above the film base with Zone 1 and 2 (first hint of texture) down on the toe.
In the 1968 printing of The Negative and the Print Adams, in the Forward admits he screw up. That edition only has Zone 0 - 9, a ten step gray scale, because he forgot to assign a Zone to SPECULAR REFLECTIONS which is what the PAPER BASE must be reserved for. That oversight led acolytes to blow out the specular highlights on sunlit whites. Why is that significant? On a smooth white object like car hood the only clues to 3D shape in a 2D photo is the contrast between the hood, which on the print must be RENDERED as a light gray tone and the specular reflection of the sun rendered by the paper base alone. He was lazy or vain to revise that edition but in later ones added Zone 10 for paper base equaling specular reflections-a bit like grafting on an extra finger to play more notes on the piano 😂
In 8-bit histogram terms Zone 0 voids have a value of 0 and Zone 10 Specular Highlights have value of 255. Zone 1 needs to be around 25-30 before it will be perceived creeping out of the void and on the highlight end that white car hood needs a value in the 245-250 range in order for the contrast with the 255 specular reflections to be noticed.
I was fortunate to learn the Zone System with a Honeywell / Pentax 1° spot meter and understand why all ASA rated meters were calibrated at 18% and why in Adams Zone System correct shadow exposure is obtained in the first calibration test by starting with the meter set to the ASA number on the box but then adjusting it until you actually get a Zone 1 value just above film base on negatives and CORRECTLY EXPOSED border = Zone 0 black prints.
What I realized was with a spot meter I could skip the card, just meter on a Zone 1 object in the scene and adjust the ASA setting of the meter until it was recalibrated on Zone 1 reflectance not Zone V = 18% gray off the card. The EV numbers no longer equaled actual lumens but all that really mattered to determine film development time was the EV range between Zones 1 and Zones 9 - black and white objects in the scene.
It was simpler, faster and required no mental gymnastics or guessing about scene range. Instead of -1, Normal, +1, +2 development based on guessing the scene range with testing I knew the exact development times needed fit each precisely measure EV range to the #2 print paper. I also developed a spreadsheet which told me what amount of yellow or magenta filtration would be needed for any scene EV range using the color head of my enlarger.
Understanding metering and the Zone System on that level is one of the reasons National Geographic hired me in 1974 work reproducing photos and map relief with halftones and color separations created on litho film with halftone screens.
At NGS I got to know and learn from Kodak’s top technical specialists and from them I learned the story of what Kodak didn’t change its 18% gray cards to 12% to conform with the new ISO film speed standard. When Adams learned it was planning to make the change he pitched a fit with Kodak executives because it would mess up the Zone V = 18% metering for exposure. But today if you meter off an 18% gray card with a ISO rated meter and film your exposure will be off by 1/3 stop. If you fill the frame of your digital camera with an 18% card the histogram spike will not be in the center because the metering of the camera uses the ISO calibration value of 12%.
Why 18% to begin with? That was the reflectance of a cross-lit outdoor scene composed per the ROT with 1/3 sky and 2/3 land. That worked to expose negatives back in the day but not transparencies so ISO changed the meter standard to 12%
I guess i am the only one who does not get it. The black frame(with the chicken) in what zone was at start? Your measure was 1/60 2.8 there. Then you shoot with 1/60 5.6, isnt this going to make that black frame darker and no details? Can you explain me or somebody else, please?
the light meter gives values for zone v, no matter where you pointing at. it is your duty to do the math and decide which tone goes in which zone. hence, using 1/60 2.8 it's zone 5. but you want it in zone 3, so you need 1/60 5.6 or 1/250 2.8. you can't change the iso in film photography, unless you physically change the film inside the camera with a different emulation
@@petrub27 now i understand, thank you!