Good stuff Kellen. When I first stated shooting a thumb button I struggled with too much ring finger pressure from thousands of shots with a hinge. I worked through it but it would creep in now and then. I decided to give the Nock 2 it a try and found the little nub for the ring finger to be perfect for me. With that release I don’t lose shots low and I don’t pull out of my peep.
Thanks for the video. I struggle with this “variance” and now have more insight as to what’s going on. I went from trigger release with great grouping to thumb release with so so groupings.
Further research of your videos: "Shot Execution with a Thumb Button Release" about 2 years ago is the best explanation I have found. Like I said in the previous post, I have worked at using back tension following Dudley and Turner for the last year or so with my thumb button. I was getting pretty good results, but I plateaued. I tried using the thumb like it was a hinge (slight rotation) (Bowmar) That really didn't work for me. I was more inconsistent. When I was previously trying the "squeeze your hand" method I don't think I was putting ENOUGH back tension before my squeeze. Its now getting better, but I still occasionally catch myself flinching in anticipation. I am trying to look thru my pin to lessen the anticipation and get a better surprise shot. It is definitely a work in progress, but I think I am on the right track now.
Interesting. I have struggled with which method to activate my Nock 2 It thumb button. Dudley and Turner both advocate pulling straight back with scapula/back tension. Not totally satisfied with the results. I have tried slowly squeezing my hand. Regardless I occasionally anticipate and flinch. Would be very interested in specific recommendations for the Carter/Nock 2 It release activation.
Turner used to until recently, now he advocates thumb pressure while maintaining back tension like I mention in this video. Shot execution has changed as the cam systems of bows have changed. Personally I’m not a fan of two finger releases like the nock 2 it. The third finger and even the pinky can really increase leverage on the handle of the release which helps active the trigger, in my opinion. Look at Joel’s son, Brody. Joel kind of back peddled after watching him win over and over again with four fingers on th release while adding pressure with his thumb
Wouldn’t that just be mid-alignment high and low between your peep and scope housing??? I mean you could say that being high or low with your anchor on your face would do the same thing… but if you keep the same face pressure and have your scope and peep centered the same then now matter how you draw the bow back, as long as your bow holds good and your shot timing isn’t bad off, you should hit the same…
Kellen, I need your help or a video on how you prefer aiming at the target before shooting. I have a tendency to drop below the target and fight to bring it back up a stay steady. That is probably the normal I would think. Is that what is the same for you or do you try come in from above the target and try hard when centered to execute a shot without it dropping below the target?
The norm is generally to start above and work with gravity as you settle into the middle. If you’re having an issue starting in the middle and then bobbing low and feel jittery it’s probably an issue of being a little short in your draw length. If you come down and just freeze low but the pin is steady, then that’s just a form of target kabic
Always thought it was peep related. More index pressure lowers my peep, and more ring finger raises it, which has the same effect on POI, but this vid makes sense
Good video..now i got a reference point and i know whay suddenly i shot high or low when i aiming in the middle, i also sometimes tends to freeze up the release when i focusing too much on the middle. Usually it's happened when im tired. Any tip on that ?..thank in advance..
Interesting. I also shoot a thumb button (truball rave) and have experimented with the same exact mechanics. I haven’t noticed nearly as drastic results, but at 20 I have noticed about a quarter inch to half inch low impact variance if I put more pressure in my ring finger. Both neutral pressure and more index finger pressure actually have the same POI for me even out to 100 yds. Crazy to see yours have about a 2” variance high or low at that close of distance
This is SO good! Great stuff Kellen!! Interesting how your thumb and pinky move to the release in perfect unison. I will have try this with my OnneX C.
Good point on this video. Ive taught myself to shoot my thumb release(carter wise choice 3 finger) as almost a hinge style. I draw with the index finger tight and ring finger a little loose, anchor the barrel in the crease of my thumb, then when im ready to start my shot i slowly squeeze my ring finger with my thumb stationary and roll the release slightly until the shot breaks. It has definitely help me with target panic versus a wrist release and punching. At the same time i have not seen any issues with release anchor due to being a repeatable rolling motion as you mentioned with a hinge.
I am experiencing this exact issue (same release as well). Your release anchor point idea is excellent and I will try it the next time out. Thank You!!
Think the shape of the head on that Stan affects it more than other thumbs? The hook seems to be further down the side of the body than most releases 🤷🏻♂️
Brilliant. I love little details like this. I like to make a list of 3 details that make the biggest inconsistencies every time I shoot on a posted note, and review it before I sort the next time.
Makes a ton of sense. I wonder if it can torque left and right as well. Get a lot of high right action out of nowhere and I figured it was just struggling to find a good anchor with my thumb release. Will shoot a silver dollar group one second bullseye. Then be 3-4 inches high right out of nowhere
@@InsideOutPrecisiondo you try to twist so your straight up and down? I struggle with a face anchor and watched another video where they said go at a 45 degree angle to put your knuckles on either side of your jaw bone. Thanks
@@tonyviers-de9qi mmm no most pros set their peep height so that they’re a little scrunched at shorter yardages, then the peep doesn’t seems so high when they drop their sight to longer yardages
I’ve never really thought about finger pressure changing the shot before, I just got back into shooting a button release. Do you think the twist you put into the d-loop when you anchor your hand changes the shot any?
Sincerely, a great video. An added plus is seeing another left hander . Easier for me to comprehend.
me too, also good to see another lefty doing the instruction
Good stuff Kellen. When I first stated shooting a thumb button I struggled with too much ring finger pressure from thousands of shots with a hinge. I worked through it but it would creep in now and then. I decided to give the Nock 2 it a try and found the little nub for the ring finger to be perfect for me. With that release I don’t lose shots low and I don’t pull out of my peep.
This up and down pressure issue is part of why John Dudley uses the two finger release. It’s very hard to be inconsistent with the two finger release.
Thanks for the video. I struggle with this “variance” and now have more insight as to what’s going on. I went from trigger release with great grouping to thumb release with so so groupings.
Great video and i have not been thinking about this :)
Further research of your videos: "Shot Execution with a Thumb Button Release" about 2 years ago is the best explanation I have found. Like I said in the previous post, I have worked at using back tension following Dudley and Turner for the last year or so with my thumb button. I was getting pretty good results, but I plateaued.
I tried using the thumb like it was a hinge (slight rotation) (Bowmar) That really didn't work for me. I was more inconsistent.
When I was previously trying the "squeeze your hand" method I don't think I was putting ENOUGH back tension before my squeeze. Its now getting better, but I still occasionally catch myself flinching in anticipation. I am trying to look thru my pin to lessen the anticipation and get a better surprise shot. It is definitely a work in progress, but I think I am on the right track now.
Yeah there are so many ways to get a release to fire, and none of them are “right”. Just gotta keep playing with it until you find what works for you!
Interesting. I have struggled with which method to activate my Nock 2 It thumb button. Dudley and Turner both advocate pulling straight back with scapula/back tension. Not totally satisfied with the results. I have tried slowly squeezing my hand. Regardless I occasionally anticipate and flinch. Would be very interested in specific recommendations for the Carter/Nock 2 It release activation.
Turner used to until recently, now he advocates thumb pressure while maintaining back tension like I mention in this video. Shot execution has changed as the cam systems of bows have changed. Personally I’m not a fan of two finger releases like the nock 2 it. The third finger and even the pinky can really increase leverage on the handle of the release which helps active the trigger, in my opinion. Look at Joel’s son, Brody. Joel kind of back peddled after watching him win over and over again with four fingers on th release while adding pressure with his thumb
Wouldn’t that just be mid-alignment high and low between your peep and scope housing??? I mean you could say that being high or low with your anchor on your face would do the same thing… but if you keep the same face pressure and have your scope and peep centered the same then now matter how you draw the bow back, as long as your bow holds good and your shot timing isn’t bad off, you should hit the same…
The peep was centered around the housing in every shot.
Kellen,
I need your help or a video on how you prefer aiming at the target before shooting. I have a tendency to drop below the target and fight to bring it back up a stay steady. That is probably the normal I would think. Is that what is the same for you or do you try come in from above the target and try hard when centered to execute a shot without it dropping below the target?
The norm is generally to start above and work with gravity as you settle into the middle. If you’re having an issue starting in the middle and then bobbing low and feel jittery it’s probably an issue of being a little short in your draw length. If you come down and just freeze low but the pin is steady, then that’s just a form of target kabic
Great video! Think about the tuning implications too. Changing your nocking point is like moving your rest.
Always thought it was peep related. More index pressure lowers my peep, and more ring finger raises it, which has the same effect on POI, but this vid makes sense
Good video..now i got a reference point and i know whay suddenly i shot high or low when i aiming in the middle, i also sometimes tends to freeze up the release when i focusing too much on the middle. Usually it's happened when im tired. Any tip on that ?..thank in advance..
what’s up with the website? there is nothing there or I get blue links that have nothing to do with archery??
That's why I would rather use a four finger or two finger style release. I find both to be more consistent.
I love my stan shootoff TL thumb button release it has all the micro adjust. And it is crisp and clean at the shot. Nice video
Interesting. I also shoot a thumb button (truball rave) and have experimented with the same exact mechanics. I haven’t noticed nearly as drastic results, but at 20 I have noticed about a quarter inch to half inch low impact variance if I put more pressure in my ring finger. Both neutral pressure and more index finger pressure actually have the same POI for me even out to 100 yds. Crazy to see yours have about a 2” variance high or low at that close of distance
Great video man
This is SO good! Great stuff Kellen!! Interesting how your thumb and pinky move to the release in perfect unison. I will have try this with my OnneX C.
Good point on this video. Ive taught myself to shoot my thumb release(carter wise choice 3 finger) as almost a hinge style. I draw with the index finger tight and ring finger a little loose, anchor the barrel in the crease of my thumb, then when im ready to start my shot i slowly squeeze my ring finger with my thumb stationary and roll the release slightly until the shot breaks. It has definitely help me with target panic versus a wrist release and punching. At the same time i have not seen any issues with release anchor due to being a repeatable rolling motion as you mentioned with a hinge.
Facts.
I am experiencing this exact issue (same release as well). Your release anchor point idea is excellent and I will try it the next time out. Thank You!!
Think the shape of the head on that Stan affects it more than other thumbs? The hook seems to be further down the side of the body than most releases 🤷🏻♂️
Brilliant. I love little details like this. I like to make a list of 3 details that make the biggest inconsistencies every time I shoot on a posted note, and review it before I sort the next time.
Makes a ton of sense. I wonder if it can torque left and right as well. Get a lot of high right action out of nowhere and I figured it was just struggling to find a good anchor with my thumb release. Will shoot a silver dollar group one second bullseye. Then be 3-4 inches high right out of nowhere
@@Froggies505 yeah the angle of your release hand (horizontally/vertically) will definitely cause right/left misses!
@@InsideOutPrecisiondo you try to twist so your straight up and down? I struggle with a face anchor and watched another video where they said go at a 45 degree angle to put your knuckles on either side of your jaw bone. Thanks
@@Froggies505 no I don’t go straight up and down. I just set it so the back of knuckles sit flat against my face
@@Froggies505 sounds like you might need to play with your draw length or d loop length
@@InsideOutPrecision yeah they had me at 28.5 I originally shot 27.5 with a wrist strap. Now at 28 but seems like I get a lot more shake than at 28.5
Do you change your anchor point from 20-80 yards?
@@tonyviers-de9qi I don’t
@@InsideOutPrecision someone told me that most “ pros” do . Ive never heard of changing anchor at different yardages.
@@tonyviers-de9qi mmm no most pros set their peep height so that they’re a little scrunched at shorter yardages, then the peep doesn’t seems so high when they drop their sight to longer yardages
I was thinking about this the other day.
I’ve never really thought about finger pressure changing the shot before, I just got back into shooting a button release. Do you think the twist you put into the d-loop when you anchor your hand changes the shot any?
Not the twist in the d loop itself, but if your hand is at different angles shot to shot the loop will change positions and effect your left/right
Excellent vid. Thanks.
I will have to try it. Thanks!
could this difference cause the arrow to constantly bounce off a blade rest when drawing back.
Mmm not really… that’s just how shooting a blade goes haha