A tip regarding you taping the paper on cardboard - I found some corrugated pastic sheets and cut it to various sizes to tape my paper onto. It's durable, light and reusable so I can turn my paper as needed and stray pigment just wipes right off with a damp cloth.
I have that same Waterford block and I hate it, but I suspect I have been unlucky and bought a faulty one. It tends to be far more absorbent around the edges, so I end up with a dull, dark, oval shaped frame.
Oh wow I love the beach scene tutorial. I honestly can’t really see much difference between both papers. They hold a great amount of water, the colors blend smoothly across the pages, & the details & textures are fabulous. It definitely looks like they’re both really great buys for your style of painting. Thanks for sharing this wonderful review & the tutorial!
I prefer the whiter tones; but I buy both papers I also buy rough in both brands sometimes. Saunders Fat Pad is a spiral tablet of 25 pages and 2 sides are deckled. it's 12x7.5" and pages are easily removed if desired.I think I paid about 29 on amazon. for a Fat Pad. they come in smooth or rough.
I've also used both and I prefer Arches for the same reason you pointed out, Emma. The lack of grain lines in the paper (I think) makes your painting look more natural. Arches is a thirstier paper, but they both stay wet about the same length of time.
Loved the beach scene comparison!!! I have stored up my Arches (when on sale or Ebay) so have enough for a while. So, I'm glad you liked both!!! If Saunders has a "repeat" pattern, i wouldn't like that feature. If you like pads over blocks, I just saw a pad of Saunders at Blick's. Thank you Emma Jane! With love from a California Gramma ❤
To me the arches looks like the sky blends a little smoother and the Saunders looks a bit more vibrant but they are so incredibly similar that it's so hard to tell! I definitely want to try out Saunders at some point ❤
on my watercolor blocks i just use that skinny washi tape to divide the page in to two or even four depending on the size of the block, then i cut them after i take it off the block
Thank you for the hands on comparison, but I’m still a Arches artist, I do like working on a block at times, but also enjoy a single sheet! You are such a talented teacher, and the paintings are so similar, I’m not tempted to leave the Arches I know and love! Thank you for sharing, Karen Dirmish, Elmhurst USA 31:44
I've been studying these papers for a while, now, about a dozen different well-known brands, and yeah, Arches and Saunders are spot on. I'm also seriously impressed with Baohong (academic), which is less than half the price of Arches. I was struck by how easy it was to lay down a smooth wash on Baohong, the very first five minutes with the product. Top three, so far.
Thank you for the video! My all time favorite is High White Saunders Not (cold pressed). I find Arches has a distinct yellowish tint and it doesn’t wirk as well for my style which often involves lots of wAter. Saunders also seems to stay flat for me & the colors appear true to their pigments.
Emma Jane, I reallyyyyy enjoyed this!!! Not only did I love the comparison of the papers, but my favorite things to paint lately have been beaches and seascapes!!! I’ve been trying lots of different cotton papers so this was a lot of fun 🤩 Thank you so much ☺️ I love your channel. BTW, I love your brushes too; I ordered them when they were first launched and they are holding up beautifully ♥️♥️♥️
I just bought 3 sheets of Saunders 140 lb, cotton paper. It is softer than Arches, smoother, but, this paper doesn't feel as thick as Arches that I have. I'm not sure, being new to this, if possibly they sent 90lb paper by mistake. There's nothing I can do about it now, I've made sketchbooks out of it. Lol! I'm so glad you did this, I am late watching it, just found it. Love your videos! Thank you.
After trying both found the Saunder’s doesn’t need or like to much water when doing a wet on wet. Arches seems to be able to handle more water & seems more thirsty of a paper. Using different techniques with each paper & ty for comparison.
Thank you for this comparison video. Nothing beats Arches in my book. Artists keep trying to replace Arches with a different brand…but why? If it’s good, it’s good.
It's very expensive. Ppl try to save some money, especially those who don't earn with art or who just learn. For professional artists who sales works it's not an issue at all.
In terms of quality and performance, there is a better brand than Arches, that's ahnemuhle. Their Mould made sheets and their Collection blocks, are second to none. Arches, Winsor and Newton and Saunders Waterford.That being said, at that level, it's all about what you paint,what's your needs and taste. Also, don't forget, that the Sheets especialy the mould made ones, are always better quality paper, even if the company sells that paper in blocks under the same name.
I love your comparison video of the papers Emma, I have been using the St. Cuthbert range and find it covers well, I do have an Arches block that was a present for my birthday which I've yet to use so I will be doing a comparison like you. I also have used the 'Stonehenge' mini pads which are an assortment of weights and find them nice to use. Thank you for sharing this tutorial with us xx
Thank you for stating early into this video that "best" paper comes down to personal preference, which is also often dictated by _what_ a person enjoys painting (e.g., landscape vs portraiture vs botanical, etc.). My first experience with Arches was a batch with bad sizing, so I hated it but giving it another go soon. Saunders is currently my favorite, but it definitely has a way of "muting" certain behaviors, like granulation, as well as being a darker paper and having an effect on paint color. I would also recommend looking at sites others than Amazon for purchasing. There are places to get these papers with relative ease and, in my experience, for less.
I'm super curious to try the Saunders. I'm really struggling with water control and I wonder if the Saunders would be a bit more friendly for that since you had to use more water on the Arches. 🤔🤔🤔
Hi! I have only ever used whatever cheap watercolor pads I could get my hands on; I never really knew about different brands being better and all that. I never had heard of blocks either before finding your channel. This weekend I was able to use my husband’s grandma’s 9 by 16 Arches watercolor block and I am SO IN LOVE!!!!!
First off I love your videos that being said arches and saunders papers are fantastic but I want to mention two others in the US Blick premier cotton and cheap Jo's Kilimanjaro cotton
Thanks for the comparison! I bought 10 large sheets of Saunders high white watercolor paper after seeing your last video. The price was less than I paid for 10 sheets of Arches. I’m excited to try the Saunders soon.
It was perfect watching you do this and watching you play and use the techniques that are natural to you in real time. I’ve been wondering about the Saunders paper and this was very helpful
Something that makes a difference to me also is that I prefer arches white color more than Saunders creamier color. I would prefer arches and the toothiness to the grain. Especially if I am working with granulating colors. It’s too bad you didn’t have and use a granulating color for your sand so we could compare the texture of the paper to see how they compared in look to each other.
Thank you for this demo. You certainly made such a great comparison between both and we could pick up on what you wanted to convey! From your demo...just felt that the paint flowed easier and more readily on Saunders. Side by side, the colours seem to pop a bit more on Saunders as well. But my observations may very well be from my own expectations and painting style. Have been using Arches and I love it! One day I shall get my hands on Saunders 😊 !
After your first comparison in your art haul video, where the Saunders so impressed you, I bought a 9X12 cold press block because it is so much cheaper than Arches blocks. I bought a 9X12 block at Blick and paid $31 US dollars. I checked their price just before writing this and today, Saunders 9x12 cold press block is listed for $29.82 US dollars! An Arches 9x12 cold press block is $38.03 at Blick.
They are both excellent 👏!! I think the Arches is better only because it is white. Saunders is off white. That's only thing that I don't like about Saunders is the off white. If your painting something where it doesn't matter if it's white or not then I guess the Saunders would be a better deal? Who really knows? Lololol. Thank you for the comparison. Have a great day! JK FLORIDA USA 🇺🇸
Newbie here, thanks for the excellent beach tutorial. I'm just starting on my watercolour journey (more used to painting walls & furniture!) For me it would come down to price of paper as I'm not a pro!
You landed on a great channel! Emma has tons of videos to choose from, and she is an excellent teacher! I started my watercolor journey with her 2 years ago. Happy painting 😊 from a California Gramma ❤
I’ve been using Arches in pads and Saunders in imperial-sized format. I’ve noticed a significant difference in sizing between the two. Arches appears to use more gelatin, resulting in less interaction between the paint and the paper compared to Saunders, which I’m not fond of. Perhaps I’m a bit biased, as I also use Baohong, which is more similar to Saunders.
I think there is more difference in the hot press paper. On a botanical fungi scientific class, i started with Arches, HP got upset, kept going, did another one on Arches, it upset me again, and tried a few types of the tutor's paper, Saunders Waterford, and others I couldn't recall. It was so much better for details. I felt much happier with it. My normal paper I love is the sheets of Fabriano Artistico CP in the creamy colour pad, called traditional, and it can come as a pack of 3 +1 free, for full size sheets. These are different in how they behave. I don't like the HP version either. The 3 + 1 is good to make a decent size sketchbook with, though I haven't tried this. So, I was out of my comfort zone, with tiny brushes, a nearly dry brush with pigment, the hot press smooth surface, and non liftability, the detail at looking at the fungi, the scientific scale, and patience. I did the course twice, one a year later, my tutor could see the improvement. I still made mistakes, but used many different brush holding techniques, was far happier to slop it clumsily when I ran out of time and patience. It took the 2nd year to realize the paper was not helping me, rather both kept pilling. Funnily enough the botanical painters used to love the Fabriano Artistic HP as their favourite, but it changed, and we all hand to find other papers. I wasn't able to lift on any HP paper, even with gentle strokes, and non staining pigments. Thanks Emma for this relaxing video, it was enjoyable to watch you, and great that they both performed so well. In kindred spirit, Eliza Most Beautiful Day is Today! 4:42pm 31st August 2023
It’s the hot press paper where the REAL extreme differences are between these two. I personally love Saunders more as it fits my style of painting better. I absolutely dislike arches hot press, but love their cold. Funny how hot/cold press can change a paper so drastically.
Wondering what your thoughts are on the whiteness of cotton papers. I have a block of Fabriano and it looks much whiter than my Arches pad. I’m thinking the whiter paper might look cleaner and the colors more vibrant?
I have recently come across two blocks of Saunders Waterford blocks (both A3 and A4 sizes) and discovered that their sizing have completely gone bad. I had bought these blocks in sale barely six months back and was not expecting to see the paper behave like a blotting paper. I then purchased a tin of Daniel Smith watercolour Ground and tried to recover the paper but in vain. The paper still behaves like a blotting paper showing large blobs of saturated sheet. In comparison, I have not noticed any such thing with my Arches stock some of which is by now over five years old. Artist quality watercolour paper is expensive; the last thing you want is to lose it so unceremoniously. Saunders Waterford must revisit their processes and ensure reasonable life expectancy from its paper. A stamp specifying year of manufacture or a best before date could also prove to be helpful.
Oooh, nice comparison & very informative! Both Arches and Saunder St. Cuthberts are under the same company F.I.L.A group which also include Canson & Strathmore. I wonder if you can compare all 4 of them since Canson Heritage & Montval and Strathmore 400 series are pretty higher end of watercolor paper.
Hi, Hazimmus, I'm intrigued by your comment. At the moment, St Cuthbert's Mill isn't listed under F.I.L.A's subsidiary list, and though I have read on Jackson's site that they are now part of the group, it doesn't seem to be there now. Papers: Canson Montval and Strathmore 400 papers are cellulose papers, and not usually considered as 'high end.' for that reason. They just don't perform on the same level as 100% cotton. Here in France, where it is made, Canson Montval is very much regarded as a student / beginners grade of paper. I've done trials of many papers, one of which was Montval, both the rough and the cold pressed (Torchon and Grain Fin in French). I also use them for my students to try, along with other papers, including Cotman (cellulose) and various 100% cotton papers. As soon as they start trying to do wet-in-wet or layering on the Montval (offered midway through the course), they aren't happy. BTW, other papers include Saunders Waterford, Fabriano Artistico, Lanaquarelle, Hahnemühle, Sennelier... 14 in total, four being cellulose, two of those being Montval. The problem I have with Heritage is its texture, which reminds me of the texture of papers I bought as a beginner from 'The Works' (a remainder store back in the UK). I haven't tried it, as I saw the texture clearly in a few videos on YT, and it hasn't been readily available here in Europe till recently (I've been painting for 27 years). So yes, I'd be interested to see a comparison series which includes Montval and Strathmore 400 alongside Canson Heritage and Strathmore 500 (both 100% cotton), Arches and Saunders Waterford, and maybe Fabriano Artistico. But I think it would be fairer to do it as a 'blind' comparison, where the participants aren't told which paper is which, being presented instead with a set of same size sheets with numbers on them for identification afterwards. That really would give the cellulose papers a fair chance. (NB: the mill where 'Saunders St Cuthbert's' - and Canson's Moulin de Roy series- is _made_ at St Cuthbert's Mill, and the name of the paper is Saunders Waterford). 😊
@@MrsBarnabas Oh wow, I only tried samples-pack tho, yeah I just check Moulin de Roy is the better one! Heritage perform slightly different from both sides (maybe I got bad samples). Thanks for the info btw. I just read more about FILA, they also manage Daler Rowney line and they too have the 'The Langton Prestige' watercolor paper.
Just bought my first Arches pad, the same as the one you showed, at Hobby Lobby here in the U.S., it wasn't until I got home and looked at the receipt that it was 40% off. Priced at $15.99 but I only paid $9.73! Drove an hour to get there, ugh, I should have bought two or three at that price.
I buy Saunders Waterford 20 x14 blocks at $58.50 per block. I cut them to 10 x 14, then 7 x10. So I have 60 sheets at a cost of 0.97 per sheet. I do not like Arches texture, it is too rough. So if you paint on this size paper you get a good deal.
Hi Emma. I Love your channel. Been following a while. I noticed you reviewed Paul Rubens 24 set watercolors. I bought the set and love the paints but it seems that I’m using it up too fast. Seems like they are very creamy. Do some paints last longer than others? Maybe I’m doing something wrong? Thank you for your time.
I’ve only ever used pulp paper, always buckles. I bought the same Arches pad a month ago, scared to use it coz if it buckles as well, I’ve got to give up painting. I’m not fannying about stretching it
All papers buckle when wet, Guru! We just need to tape it down firmly all the way round, and be patient enough to let it dry naturally, when it will return to its flat state. BTW, trying to hurry the process with hair drier can result in uneven drying and the you will be left with a problem. That's solvable too. When the paper's completely dry, turn it over, and on the back, wet it with a steady across-the-page,-in-one direction stroke working downwards, each time just picking up the edge of the line you've just done. When the whole page is wet, but not puddled (if it puddles, use a damp brush and gently touch the puddle, and the brush will 'suck up' the excess water), *leave it to dry naturally!!!!* It should dry flat. With a cotton paper, if you still have humps and bumps, wet the back again and using a steam iron on the coolest setting for steam, iron the paper gently, again, in one direction, from top to bottom, just as you did when you wet it. Then *leave it alone.* But the key thing is this: *Leave your paintings to dry by themselves!!!* We humans don't have sufficiently steady hands to dry evenly without a lot of practice, and its better to accept that its time for a cuppa and a break (even better, do some doodles in a sketchbook as you enjoy your drink - it's what plein air artists do all the time!) while it dries. The result of that is that when we come back to the painting, we're refreshed, our eyes are rested, and can see more clearly what is to be done next. I hope this helps you - and anyone else who reads this comment. BTW, a typed 'thank you' is better than an anonymous 'like'.
@@MrsBarnabas thank you. Even if I paint on A5 size and do say a landscape, the top 3rd sky is buckled, won’t dry out by itself flat, ever. I have to wait til it’s dry, turn it over, lightly spray and put books etc on top and leave overnight. I can then do the sea or field etc next day and repeat. I always tape round edges with washy tape too as masking tape rips the paper on removal. I’m hoping Arches won’t be so bad
I never stretch my paper, (mostly use arches 140 lb. Cold pressed) and rarely even tape down the edges. Wet the back, being careful not to let water leak to the front. Then, Either iron on the back or put some very heavy books on top and leave overnite. Always protect the painted surface with clean sheets of (cheap) paper. It is possible that the ironing method may work best on 100% cotton paper; I’ve never tried ironing cheaper papers. Hope this helps.
@@shaunsart I haven't known that to happen before, so it sounds like a specific paper issue, rather than paper in general. I'm interested (because there's always so much to learn!), which brand(s) of paper have you been using? 😊
@@MrsBarnabas My main one is Daler Rowney Aquafine smooth 300gsm, or 140lb. I bought a jumbo pad (50 sheets) of A4 size and split into 4 sections, that equates to #4 at A6 size and still warped. As soon as the sky is painted, it buckles the whole section so if I were to paint foreground field etc under it I would be painting across valleys so that’s why I dry it overnight then carry on next day. I’m trying Arches tomorrow on same exercise , will let you know if it behaves any differently. I’m not convinced it’s the paper, could well be me.
A tip regarding you taping the paper on cardboard - I found some corrugated pastic sheets and cut it to various sizes to tape my paper onto. It's durable, light and reusable so I can turn my paper as needed and stray pigment just wipes right off with a damp cloth.
My favorite is Saunders Waterford best, Arches second. I jump a little higher with happiness when gifted Waterford at Christmas or my birthday. 😊
😅
I've asked Saunders for a Christmas gift... fingers crossed lol
I have that same Waterford block and I hate it, but I suspect I have been unlucky and bought a faulty one. It tends to be far more absorbent around the edges, so I end up with a dull, dark, oval shaped frame.
Saunders also has high white. You might want to try it.
Thank you, Emma, for such a quick response to requests for comparison between these two. Tips on painting the beach scene were also great!
Oh wow I love the beach scene tutorial. I honestly can’t really see much difference between both papers. They hold a great amount of water, the colors blend smoothly across the pages, & the details & textures are fabulous. It definitely looks like they’re both really great buys for your style of painting. Thanks for sharing this wonderful review & the tutorial!
I prefer the whiter tones; but I buy both papers I also buy rough in both brands sometimes. Saunders Fat Pad is a spiral tablet of 25 pages and 2 sides are deckled. it's 12x7.5" and pages are easily removed if desired.I think I paid about 29 on amazon. for a Fat Pad. they come in smooth or rough.
Your original composition is fantastic.... You don't need a reference photo ... thanks for sharing and being you!!!!
I've used both and I feel that Arches is a dryer paper, but I really like both.
Winsor and Newton PROFESSIONAL 100 cotton is fantastic paper too.
Yes! I like it in 5 x 7" pad!!! I buy when I get it on sale. Happy 😊 painting!
I was looking for someone to comment this😊 It’s one of my favorites.
I've also used both and I prefer Arches for the same reason you pointed out, Emma. The lack of grain lines in the paper (I think) makes your painting look more natural. Arches is a thirstier paper, but they both stay wet about the same length of time.
Loved the beach scene comparison!!! I have stored up my Arches (when on sale or Ebay) so have enough for a while. So, I'm glad you liked both!!! If Saunders has a "repeat" pattern, i wouldn't like that feature. If you like pads over blocks, I just saw a pad of Saunders at Blick's. Thank you Emma Jane! With love from a California Gramma ❤
I choose arches too!
To me the arches looks like the sky blends a little smoother and the Saunders looks a bit more vibrant but they are so incredibly similar that it's so hard to tell! I definitely want to try out Saunders at some point ❤
on my watercolor blocks i just use that skinny washi tape to divide the page in to two or even four depending on the size of the block, then i cut them after i take it off the block
Thank you for the hands on comparison, but I’m still a Arches artist, I do like working on a block at times, but also enjoy a single sheet! You are such a talented teacher, and the paintings are so similar, I’m not tempted to leave the Arches I know and love! Thank you for sharing, Karen Dirmish, Elmhurst USA 31:44
I've been studying these papers for a while, now, about a dozen different well-known brands, and yeah, Arches and Saunders are spot on. I'm also seriously impressed with Baohong (academic), which is less than half the price of Arches. I was struck by how easy it was to lay down a smooth wash on Baohong, the very first five minutes with the product. Top three, so far.
Thank you for the video! My all time favorite is High White Saunders Not (cold pressed). I find Arches has a distinct yellowish tint and it doesn’t wirk as well for my style which often involves lots of wAter. Saunders also seems to stay flat for me & the colors appear true to their pigments.
Emma Jane, I reallyyyyy enjoyed this!!! Not only did I love the comparison of the papers, but my favorite things to paint lately have been beaches and seascapes!!! I’ve been trying lots of different cotton papers so this was a lot of fun 🤩 Thank you so much ☺️ I love your channel. BTW, I love your brushes too; I ordered them when they were first launched and they are holding up beautifully ♥️♥️♥️
I just bought 3 sheets of Saunders 140 lb, cotton paper. It is softer than Arches, smoother, but, this paper doesn't feel as thick as Arches that I have. I'm not sure, being new to this, if possibly they sent 90lb paper by mistake. There's nothing I can do about it now, I've made sketchbooks out of it. Lol! I'm so glad you did this, I am late watching it, just found it. Love your videos! Thank you.
After trying both found the Saunder’s doesn’t need or like to much water when doing a wet on wet.
Arches seems to be able to handle more water & seems more thirsty of a paper.
Using different techniques with each paper & ty for comparison.
saunders has 12 page tablets but in larger sizes on amazon
Thank you for this comparison video. Nothing beats Arches in my book. Artists keep trying to replace Arches with a different brand…but why? If it’s good, it’s good.
It's very expensive. Ppl try to save some money, especially those who don't earn with art or who just learn.
For professional artists who sales works it's not an issue at all.
In terms of quality and performance, there is a better brand than Arches, that's ahnemuhle. Their Mould made sheets and their Collection blocks, are second to none. Arches, Winsor and Newton and Saunders Waterford.That being said, at that level, it's all about what you paint,what's your needs and taste. Also, don't forget, that the Sheets especialy the mould made ones, are always better quality paper, even if the company sells that paper in blocks under the same name.
I love your comparison video of the papers Emma, I have been using the St. Cuthbert range and find it covers well, I do have an Arches block that was a present for my birthday which I've yet to use so I will be doing a comparison like you. I also have used the 'Stonehenge' mini pads which are an assortment of weights and find them nice to use. Thank you for sharing this tutorial with us xx
Thank you for stating early into this video that "best" paper comes down to personal preference, which is also often dictated by _what_ a person enjoys painting (e.g., landscape vs portraiture vs botanical, etc.). My first experience with Arches was a batch with bad sizing, so I hated it but giving it another go soon. Saunders is currently my favorite, but it definitely has a way of "muting" certain behaviors, like granulation, as well as being a darker paper and having an effect on paint color.
I would also recommend looking at sites others than Amazon for purchasing. There are places to get these papers with relative ease and, in my experience, for less.
I have found the Arches pad as cheap as $14.99 at Hobby Lobby
I'm super curious to try the Saunders. I'm really struggling with water control and I wonder if the Saunders would be a bit more friendly for that since you had to use more water on the Arches. 🤔🤔🤔
Hi! I have only ever used whatever cheap watercolor pads I could get my hands on; I never really knew about different brands being better and all that. I never had heard of blocks either before finding your channel. This weekend I was able to use my husband’s grandma’s 9 by 16 Arches watercolor block and I am SO IN LOVE!!!!!
First off I love your videos that being said arches and saunders papers are fantastic but I want to mention two others in the US Blick premier cotton and cheap Jo's Kilimanjaro cotton
Pretty beach scene tutorial❤
Thanks for the comparison! I bought 10 large sheets of Saunders high white watercolor paper after seeing your last video. The price was less than I paid for 10 sheets of Arches. I’m excited to try the Saunders soon.
Nice comparison. Beautiful paintings. I love you style of teaching.
Thank you Emma Jane.
I am so excited to receive your book this month. I have fallen for watercolor, and you have inspired me to paint!❤ Thank you!!!!
Yes….Emma’s book is just so fab ! Enjoy ! 🤗🤗
If I want a block I always buy Baohong if I’m going to stretch it myself I really enjoy arches, Fabriano or Lana Aquarelle.
I just discovered baohong, really enjoy it!
It was perfect watching you do this and watching you play and use the techniques that are natural to you in real time. I’ve been wondering about the Saunders paper and this was very helpful
Something that makes a difference to me also is that I prefer arches white color more than Saunders creamier color. I would prefer arches and the toothiness to the grain. Especially if I am working with granulating colors. It’s too bad you didn’t have and use a granulating color for your sand so we could compare the texture of the paper to see how they compared in look to each other.
There is high white Saunders paper which is almost snow white that is my absolute favorite and comes in rough too , very very soft.
You can buy single sheets or even get samples and try that with granulating colors. Good idea to use granulating colors with sand though. 😊
This was wonderful. Helps with price, paper size, and if it's necessary to have a block or not. Thanks. Was fun!
You’ve sold me on Saunders Waterford!
Great comparison and tutorial. You make it look so easy!
I was an Arches snob, but after your video I have changed my mind. I am a Saunders snob!
😂😂
Thank you for this demo. You certainly made such a great comparison between both and we could pick up on what you wanted to convey!
From your demo...just felt that the paint flowed easier and more readily on Saunders. Side by side, the colours seem to pop a bit more on Saunders as well. But my observations may very well be from my own expectations and painting style. Have been using Arches and I love it! One day I shall get my hands on Saunders 😊
!
I love the beach scene you didn't really need a reference photo. I love both papers. Have to try the saunders.
I love both papers but Arches is more available to me. Thank you for ding this really informative video.😊
After your first comparison in your art haul video, where the Saunders so impressed you, I bought a 9X12 cold press block because it is so much cheaper than Arches blocks. I bought a 9X12 block at Blick and paid $31 US dollars. I checked their price just before writing this and today, Saunders 9x12 cold press block is listed for $29.82 US dollars! An Arches 9x12 cold press block is $38.03 at Blick.
They are both excellent 👏!! I think the Arches is better only because it is white. Saunders is off white. That's only thing that I don't like about Saunders is the off white. If your painting something where it doesn't matter if it's white or not then I guess the Saunders would be a better deal? Who really knows? Lololol. Thank you for the comparison. Have a great day! JK FLORIDA USA 🇺🇸
Newbie here, thanks for the excellent beach tutorial. I'm just starting on my watercolour journey (more used to painting walls & furniture!) For me it would come down to price of paper as I'm not a pro!
You landed on a great channel! Emma has tons of videos to choose from, and she is an excellent teacher! I started my watercolor journey with her 2 years ago. Happy painting 😊 from a California Gramma ❤
@@annenglish2935 how kind, thank you very much! From a very wet Essex, England!!
Love rain... looking forward to fall!!! That's because it's been 90 here... have fun!
I’ve been using Arches in pads and Saunders in imperial-sized format. I’ve noticed a significant difference in sizing between the two. Arches appears to use more gelatin, resulting in less interaction between the paint and the paper compared to Saunders, which I’m not fond of. Perhaps I’m a bit biased, as I also use Baohong, which is more similar to Saunders.
I think there is more difference in the hot press paper. On a botanical fungi scientific class, i started with Arches, HP got upset, kept going, did another one on Arches, it upset me again, and tried a few types of the tutor's paper, Saunders Waterford, and others I couldn't recall. It was so much better for details. I felt much happier with it.
My normal paper I love is the sheets of Fabriano Artistico CP in the creamy colour pad, called traditional, and it can come as a pack of 3 +1 free, for full size sheets. These are different in how they behave. I don't like the HP version either. The 3 + 1 is good to make a decent size sketchbook with, though I haven't tried this.
So, I was out of my comfort zone, with tiny brushes, a nearly dry brush with pigment, the hot press smooth surface, and non liftability, the detail at looking at the fungi, the scientific scale, and patience.
I did the course twice, one a year later, my tutor could see the improvement. I still made mistakes, but used many different brush holding techniques, was far happier to slop it clumsily when I ran out of time and patience. It took the 2nd year to realize the paper was not helping me, rather both kept pilling. Funnily enough the botanical painters used to love the Fabriano Artistic HP as their favourite, but it changed, and we all hand to find other papers.
I wasn't able to lift on any HP paper, even with gentle strokes, and non staining pigments.
Thanks Emma for this relaxing video, it was enjoyable to watch you, and great that they both performed so well.
In kindred spirit,
Eliza Most Beautiful Day is Today!
4:42pm
31st August 2023
It’s the hot press paper where the REAL extreme differences are between these two. I personally love Saunders more as it fits my style of painting better. I absolutely dislike arches hot press, but love their cold. Funny how hot/cold press can change a paper so drastically.
Thank you for this video - I found it very helpful!
love beach tutorials!
Wondering what your thoughts are on the whiteness of cotton papers. I have a block of Fabriano and it looks much whiter than my Arches pad. I’m thinking the whiter paper might look cleaner and the colors more vibrant?
I have recently come across two blocks of Saunders Waterford blocks (both A3 and A4 sizes) and discovered that their sizing have completely gone bad. I had bought these blocks in sale barely six months back and was not expecting to see the paper behave like a blotting paper. I then purchased a tin of Daniel Smith watercolour Ground and tried to recover the paper but in vain. The paper still behaves like a blotting paper showing large blobs of saturated sheet. In comparison, I have not noticed any such thing with my Arches stock some of which is by now over five years old. Artist quality watercolour paper is expensive; the last thing you want is to lose it so unceremoniously. Saunders Waterford must revisit their processes and ensure reasonable life expectancy from its paper. A stamp specifying year of manufacture or a best before date could also prove to be helpful.
Do you ever spray the paper to wet it?
Emma, I subscribed to your craftamo monthly kits. What is the brand of watercolor paper and brand of watercolor paint included? Is it craft amo’s?
Oooh, nice comparison & very informative! Both Arches and Saunder St. Cuthberts are under the same company F.I.L.A group which also include Canson & Strathmore. I wonder if you can compare all 4 of them since Canson Heritage & Montval and Strathmore 400 series are pretty higher end of watercolor paper.
Hi, Hazimmus, I'm intrigued by your comment.
At the moment, St Cuthbert's Mill isn't listed under F.I.L.A's subsidiary list, and though I have read on Jackson's site that they are now part of the group, it doesn't seem to be there now.
Papers: Canson Montval and Strathmore 400 papers are cellulose papers, and not usually considered as 'high end.' for that reason. They just don't perform on the same level as 100% cotton. Here in France, where it is made, Canson Montval is very much regarded as a student / beginners grade of paper.
I've done trials of many papers, one of which was Montval, both the rough and the cold pressed (Torchon and Grain Fin in French). I also use them for my students to try, along with other papers, including Cotman (cellulose) and various 100% cotton papers.
As soon as they start trying to do wet-in-wet or layering on the Montval (offered midway through the course), they aren't happy. BTW, other papers include Saunders Waterford, Fabriano Artistico, Lanaquarelle, Hahnemühle, Sennelier... 14 in total, four being cellulose, two of those being Montval.
The problem I have with Heritage is its texture, which reminds me of the texture of papers I bought as a beginner from 'The Works' (a remainder store back in the UK). I haven't tried it, as I saw the texture clearly in a few videos on YT, and it hasn't been readily available here in Europe till recently (I've been painting for 27 years).
So yes, I'd be interested to see a comparison series which includes Montval and Strathmore 400 alongside Canson Heritage and Strathmore 500 (both 100% cotton), Arches and Saunders Waterford, and maybe Fabriano Artistico. But I think it would be fairer to do it as a 'blind' comparison, where the participants aren't told which paper is which, being presented instead with a set of same size sheets with numbers on them for identification afterwards. That really would give the cellulose papers a fair chance.
(NB: the mill where 'Saunders St Cuthbert's' - and Canson's Moulin de Roy series- is _made_ at St Cuthbert's Mill, and the name of the paper is Saunders Waterford).
😊
Thanks for sharing! From a California Gramma ❤
@@MrsBarnabas Oh wow, I only tried samples-pack tho, yeah I just check Moulin de Roy is the better one! Heritage perform slightly different from both sides (maybe I got bad samples). Thanks for the info btw. I just read more about FILA, they also manage Daler Rowney line and they too have the 'The Langton Prestige' watercolor paper.
Thats the reason why i love Fariano, i used to use Arches, i find Arches is difficult to use, i dont know why..
Ty, that is what I don't like about the Saunders too. That texture is distracting imo
Just bought my first Arches pad, the same as the one you showed, at Hobby Lobby here in the U.S., it wasn't until I got home and looked at the receipt that it was 40% off. Priced at $15.99 but I only paid $9.73! Drove an hour to get there, ugh, I should have bought two or three at that price.
Our HL never puts Arches on sale, ever. Wonder if your clerk mistaken it for Masters touch brand which is frequently 40% off?
I buy Saunders Waterford 20 x14 blocks at $58.50 per block. I cut them to 10 x 14, then 7 x10. So I have 60 sheets at a cost of 0.97 per sheet. I do not like Arches texture, it is too rough. So if you paint on this size paper you get a good deal.
Sorry, that would be 80 sheets so it is even less.
I love ' em both
but, how do you standard frame the Saunders off sizes?
Hi Emma. I Love your channel. Been following a while. I noticed you reviewed Paul Rubens 24 set watercolors. I bought the set and love the paints but it seems that I’m using it up too fast. Seems like they are very creamy. Do some paints last longer than others? Maybe I’m doing something wrong?
Thank you for your time.
I’ve only ever used pulp paper, always buckles. I bought the same Arches pad a month ago, scared to use it coz if it buckles as well, I’ve got to give up painting. I’m not fannying about stretching it
All papers buckle when wet, Guru! We just need to tape it down firmly all the way round, and be patient enough to let it dry naturally, when it will return to its flat state. BTW, trying to hurry the process with hair drier can result in uneven drying and the you will be left with a problem. That's solvable too.
When the paper's completely dry, turn it over, and on the back, wet it with a steady across-the-page,-in-one direction stroke working downwards, each time just picking up the edge of the line you've just done. When the whole page is wet, but not puddled (if it puddles, use a damp brush and gently touch the puddle, and the brush will 'suck up' the excess water), *leave it to dry naturally!!!!* It should dry flat.
With a cotton paper, if you still have humps and bumps, wet the back again and using a steam iron on the coolest setting for steam, iron the paper gently, again, in one direction, from top to bottom, just as you did when you wet it. Then *leave it alone.*
But the key thing is this: *Leave your paintings to dry by themselves!!!* We humans don't have sufficiently steady hands to dry evenly without a lot of practice, and its better to accept that its time for a cuppa and a break (even better, do some doodles in a sketchbook as you enjoy your drink - it's what plein air artists do all the time!) while it dries. The result of that is that when we come back to the painting, we're refreshed, our eyes are rested, and can see more clearly what is to be done next.
I hope this helps you - and anyone else who reads this comment. BTW, a typed 'thank you' is better than an anonymous 'like'.
@@MrsBarnabas thank you. Even if I paint on A5 size and do say a landscape, the top 3rd sky is buckled, won’t dry out by itself flat, ever. I have to wait til it’s dry, turn it over, lightly spray and put books etc on top and leave overnight. I can then do the sea or field etc next day and repeat. I always tape round edges with washy tape too as masking tape rips the paper on removal. I’m hoping Arches won’t be so bad
I never stretch my paper, (mostly use arches 140 lb. Cold pressed) and rarely even tape down the edges. Wet the back, being careful not to let water leak to the front. Then, Either iron on the back or put some very heavy books on top and leave overnite. Always protect the painted surface with clean sheets of (cheap) paper. It is possible that the ironing method may work best on 100% cotton paper; I’ve never tried ironing cheaper papers. Hope this helps.
@@shaunsart I haven't known that to happen before, so it sounds like a specific paper issue, rather than paper in general. I'm interested (because there's always so much to learn!), which brand(s) of paper have you been using? 😊
@@MrsBarnabas My main one is Daler Rowney Aquafine smooth 300gsm, or 140lb. I bought a jumbo pad (50 sheets) of A4 size and split into 4 sections, that equates to #4 at A6 size and still warped. As soon as the sky is painted, it buckles the whole section so if I were to paint foreground field etc under it I would be painting across valleys so that’s why I dry it overnight then carry on next day. I’m trying Arches tomorrow on same exercise , will let you know if it behaves any differently. I’m not convinced it’s the paper, could well be me.
I just bought Saunders and Canadian price was just shy of 70.00. Where do you buy your paper in Canada??
Hobby Lobby has a great price on Arches
so nice❤️😍
Where are you?
🍀🌻💚
L