Harley Engine Quality Isn't What It Used to Be
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- Опубликовано: 11 май 2023
- Harley engine quality isn't what it used to be and that's both good and bad. The newer Harley engines are still quality but just in a different way, they've eliminated a lot of problems from the past and now we have potential issues. While Harley engine quality isn't what it used to be it's actually arguably better. Yes Harley-Davidson builds them different now, yes their are failures in some cases. But comparing the failures to the 100's of thousands of bikes in service on the road the number really is pretty miniscule. Potential issues are not guaranteed so don't be afraid to modify your later model Harley-Davidson motorcycle.
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Do you feel like Harley-Davidson engine quality has gone forward or backwards with the new engines?
Evo 883 sportster. Best HD engine. Only one I'd own.
Backwards I learnt first hand with two new M8s both 50k lemons both gone never again
Video Idea.
I would love to have a series like "how to make your Harley XYZ bulletproof"
I personally own a 2012 wide glide with the 103 TC in it and would love to own this thing for a looooong time
@Shane G can't help ht ask..... 50k lemons as I 2? Total engin fail or needed some work?? I've got 70,000 on 2015 103. Couple problems over the years but nothing catastrophic
Depends on the bike, IMO. If the bike is a lighter bike, the Twin Cam and the M8 are fine. The touring bike both engines are very underpowered. Mass production and cut cost spending. To me, this just gives aftermarket companies to build parts to make the engines better all around or buy a complete aftermarket engine and don't worry about the Harley engine. The same principles apply to sports cars that become race machines. Usually, if you have the money, you drop a crate performance engine in and pull out the original engine. This way, if you sell the bike, you can sell the bike with the original engine. To me, if I'm going to beef up the original engine, it is because I want it to last, and I'm going to keep it for a long time. Otherwise, like other auto machines, I'm going to cash it in for a new one. Personally, I like 2010 softail classic. It's practical. Get me point A to point B. Ther isn't a perfect motorcycle. Just the one each biker prefers, and that's the bottom line.
I went from an Evo Sportster to a 2003 Twin Cam. Yeah, I found out the hard way that Harley cheaped out on the internal engine parts. That would be acceptable on a cheap bike but it is absolutely unacceptable on a brand that claims to be "Premium" and charges a premium price.
BTW, I miss the saggy shelf with the aerosol cans in the back. It was like a mascot.
I went from a 99 sportster that I kept for over 10 years into it 2003 road king I put about 45,000 trouble free miles on that bike. What problems did you have? I did upgrade the complete two hydraulic tensioners at 15,000 miles.
My 2003 RKP has 114,000 miles on it. still runs good. Although I had to replace cam chain tensioners 3 times BEFORE they went bad, well , that's what wrenches are for. The only other internal parts were lifters, I replaced at 100K
😂😂😂😂😂😂 thought i was the only one that noticed that !!
I had 2 1200 sporties one was 01 Buell but with absolute young fella abuse 75000kms & 55k other Absolutely for from cold startup I never had 1 issue besides a battery in either,by far most reliable engine & I've had multiple twincams M8s,dropped over 50k on both M8s & both spent more time in wrty than my shed both all same engine issues deadset lemons even with stage 4 kits etc all done from new at dealer I now have a Honda till I find the right twincam.....
I bought a '99 TC new and rode it over 100,000 miles. I put a gear drive cam and had it dyno tuned at 15.000 miles to get rid of the tensioner worry's and that engine had never been apart otherwise. I changed my oil every 2500 miles.
Up until '95 they had the bolted crank which was practically indestructible. What kind of problems did you have with yours?
Let's not forget the evolution motor was developed under AMF, they spent a lot of money and time developing a good engine that took care of all the shovelhead engine problems.
Thanks for that kind word about AMF. I always think about that company as the source of Harley’s troubles, but if they were the driving force behind the Evo then that certainly dispels that belief. I’m pretty sure that AMF was responsible for Harley’s venture into snowmobiles as well as I remember that tank they built and tried to label it as a snowmobile. Now that all the snowmobile companies are going to 4 strokes maybe Harley should try planting a Milwaukee 8 in a machine!
plus AMF brought in CNC machines
@@chrish5791 at the bankruptcy court the Davidson family begged the judge to let AMF buy Harley-Davidson because Bangor printer had a history of buying companies taking a tax write-off demolishing the factory and he would have Harley-Davidson cups and t-shirts and knickknacks but no motorcycles. Just like general Mills / MPC saved Lionel trains AMF saved Harley Davidson otherwise we would have neither one today of course they were still American made in those days both the toy trains and the motorcycles. If we were not the world's policeman bankrupting our country to keep peace in the world all of the countries that stole our prosperity would be killing each other left right and center and we would make money selling them ammunition as long as it was backed by gold 🥇🪙.
@@martincvitkovich724 The story I heard is that Vaughn Beals and friends had to buy new Cincinnati Milacron machines in order to get the loan they needed to buy the company approved.
and don't forget,AMF produced the 5 speed transmission,and the 80 c.i. 1340 c.c. engine..I had a 79,AMF-H-D Lowrider,silver,black,red pinstripes.She was beautiful,ran great,never any major problems.
My local Harley Tech has one million miles on his EVO. He rides it every day rain or shine. I really enjoy your channel I have learned a lot.
1981 fxwg Shovel. Original motor still kicking 40+ years later 🤙
is his name Shadow?
@@mikec1254 His name is Ron
I ride mine rain shine and during cold Canadian winters
The m8 doesn't even sound like a harley. The evo sportster is the best sounding harley as well as the early twin cam engines with a carb.
I've got a 96 Sportster S and 01 FXDX and I agree 100%😊
Thank the EPA for that.
Harley-Davidson, One step forward and two steps back. When they removed the TIMIKIN and went to the flat roller they took us back to 1953. Then the tried to cheapen up on the bearings in the cam chest they took a step back to the last of the Shovel heads that came with a caged cam roller bearing that failed. H-D came out with a service bulletin that stated if a German bearing is installed remove it and install a full compliment Torrington cam bearing. They didn't learn their lesson and tried it in the Twin Cam with the same result only with no service bulletin for replacement, All they care is it that it will last until the warranty has expired. From the dawn of time until the EV2 the crankshaft was a Five piece unit with replaceable; crankpin, pinion and sprocket shafts. The EV2 has a Three piece Crank with the shafts machined from the flywheel castings. They had failures of the pinion shafts due to an improper radius in the machining cut causing a stress riser that would cause the shaft failure.( I replaced a few working for the dealership) I have built some nasty Nitro Dragsters and never had the wheels shift, since working on the twin cams I have seen more than one set of wheels scissor and it sucks. The only other failure in the EV2 was the plastic crank case breather gear that would disintegrate. Once the got those few snags worked out the were a great engine.
Keep the great video's coming and I hope everything works out to your satisfaction.
Harley made a mistake with the EVO. They run well and for a long long time. Many keep them for years rather than trade for something without the known longevity. My 99 Softail Custom only has 65,000 on it and runs like new. And the fit and finish on the bike are fantastic. Having heard of problems of the later twin cam engines, I love the simplicity of the EVO. But Harley cannot sell new motorcycles if the old ones keep running. I have kept mine stock for the most part except for lots of Chrome the first owner put on it along with drag pipes and a K&N air filter. My 99 comforts me.
My 88 cubic in. Twin cam has been going for 17 years. Last carburetor model. Still running great.
I still loved my Shovel. Easy to fix on the side of the road. You just needed to maintain it. 🏍💨🏍💨
As far as I'm concerned you're the most informative and entertaining of any Harley Chanel out there. Keep it up and Thank You !!
100% Spot On!
I agree.ty for the information 😅
I agree 💯 ty for the videos n info
Well. Aren't you gullible?
The problem with "cost savings" is that they rarely trickle down to the consumer.
It's simply not about pride anymore. Just greed and investors reports
I went through the factory school in 1981 and saw a fellow trueing wheels on a modified trueing stand with a foot operated air center point, trueing more than one crankshaft a minute he was doing. The early Twincam loose cranks were fixed the dirt bike method of welding the pin. Old and retired now.
These new bikes are electronic nightmares. Too many things rely on sensors that piggy back on other systems, so when something goes wrong you have no idea where to start if it’s not blatantly obvious. I went through that with a 2020 streetbob.. never again. Went back to a dyna with a 96 twin cam and called it a day.
Congratulations on the new place! Was getting worried that something had happened when the Friday videos stopped so suddenly, I’ve been watching for a while and I’ve learned a lot. Keep the content coming!!
Outstanding, glad you are moving in the direction you wanna go. Been watching channel for awhile now and continue to look forward to what you post. I always come away with learning something new every time . Thanks for posting can't wait for more
Congratulations on the life changing events. Hope all is well. I appreciate all the EVO content. I'm subscribed to your channel till I die. Keep up the good work 💪🏾
Love your channel Gixx, I look forward every week to your videos and find them very informative. Congratulations on the new move for what it’s worth.
And yet, neither the author, nor anyone else mentions the huge involvement of S&S in the development of the Evo. H-D' s best motor EVER!
Your videos are my first resource whenever I have a question about HD. Excellent content and delivery.
Really enjoy your channel and look forward to it every week. Recently brought a one owner 97 Fatboy (Stage 1) done 22000 kms , so any info you put out on the Evo feeds my passion. Cheers 😎🇦🇺
I really enjoy your content. Glad to see you persevere through your recent moves!!! Always look forward to see your next topic when I tune in. Past Harleys; 96 FXSTC, 97 FLRHI, 16 FLHXS (someone totaled last summer, lucky to be alive and still riding! currently went back to an EVO 97 FXSTC, stock 9k on it from orig. owner, which I'm slowly making changes to.
Hey Gix , your show on Friday is the trigger that switches my brain from “at work mode” to “it’s the weekend so I can work on my stuff mode “ . I look forward to you pulling the trigger and throwing my brain switch each Friday. 💪
The MoCo needs to solve the crank runout issue. Their solution was to allow for a higher runout to be considered in tolerance. Rebuilding the crank was a major expense during my 50k refresh.
Come on HD….Just weld the damn crank.
Most informative channel I have found!!. Keep em coming!. Congrats on the new shop!.!
Always learning from you’re content buddy. Hope all is well brother and keep it coming!!
EVO's Forever. and ever. Built better than today's board of directors.
Love your channel. Your passion shows! i wish you the best with your changes.
Timken bottom end ran until 2002 Twin Cam years, it didn’t end with the Evo. When I replaced my 2002 Twin Cam A flywheel with a 4 3/8 stroker, my bottom end still looked new at 70k. Regular maintenance is the key to longevity.
Happy to your powering through, as always great videos and wish you continued success
Gixxer, always enjoy your topics and narrative. You apparently have had A Lot going on. Hope things work out for the best for you. Hang in there Amigo🤙
Look forward to your videos every week! Fantastic content!!! By far one of my favorite channels 🤘🏽
I really appreciate your content. I think we all do. Thank You. I love the insight and history of the tech. Keep it rolling our way. I think you should be at 100k subscribers by now!!! PS I like when you expose the corner cutting the co. made, and the FIX.
This is hilarious! I have been talking to some other person on here and he says the old engines (the ones that killed HD prior to the Evo) were solid, and the new ones are solid, and Evos aren't all that. I of course told him he was one in a million. Now you publish this (I agree 100%) and it cracked me up. The timing was perfect. I plan to stick with my 1991 Evo. It seems to be solid. I also prefer the reliability of my carburetor over fuel injection, where any one thing can stop me in my tracks.
Good luck with the new digs GF. Keep bringing that great content.
Gixxer, you put out a lot of good content and information, knowledge is power! You have a good supportive fan base, keep up the good work, I for one, am not going anywhere.
As usual great show I always enjoy your info. great luck on your new place!!!! CT of WV
good video, GixxerFoo! I learn a lot, thanks.
Thanks for the topic. You just confirmed my suspicion as to why they did away with the tapered crank bearings. Cost and production.
Thanks for your comments and videos, well done. I have too many bikes. The '15 Ultra is the one we ride most often. It has a 103 and is not changed up except for exhaust. Very dependable so far ( 6K ). My favorite to look at and think they will never be made again (because of cost) is the '97, '98 and '99 Heritage Springers. They really are artwork and they all have EVO's. thanks again
Great video. Thank you for the information. Always look forward to your videos 👍🏻😊
Always great to hear from you, even when I don't know if temptin bearing for a crank ha ha ha . But my Evo is running great!
Good luck in the new digs, looking forward to the “shop’ tour man 👍
enjoying this channel a lot! keep it up man!
I'm glad i chose for the BMW R1100RS, a pretty cool design those cyl heads and having a camshaft snucked in there, futuristic suspension.
It seems to do 0-200km/h in about 11/12 seconds with only 90HP and 100nm Torque and doing 5 liter / 100km.
Nice one,every new video from you make me smile.Keep it up mate😊
Excellent video Gixxerfoo! Sorry to hear about your moving situations, but been there, done that. Looking forward to the new content! Love my Evos! ('95 Electra Glide Custom, '00 883 Sportster) Hey, decorating tip, bring back the firefighters calendar. LOL!!!
Understand Life Changes brother. Glad to see you still hanging out your sign. My brother and I really appreciate what you do. Hang in there!
Love your channel man, keep doing what your doing and ill always be a subscriber...hope your things are good for ya man...
Really dig & enjoy your videos. Thank you for them. Have you considered doing a video on Trike specific camshafts? Especially for us still rolling around on twin cams 🤣
Keep up the good work GixxerFoo!
Congratulations on your move! You definitely deserve it with all the help you’re giving us viewers
Thank you so much 🤗
You said something that speaks volumes. Drive sensible. Big twins are not hot rod engines, there I said it. I've had Shovels,Pans, Twin Cams and am currently on a 67 Shovel. Every one I've had required some mods to the engines for longevity. Treat them for what they are and they will take you down the road and back.
Good articles, hope new digs work out for you.
BC,You are 100% right.if you start out with a good running H-D and you treat it like it was built to be treated,then it will last you forever,there will always be maintence and some parts do wear out over time just keep up with her.If you pound her into the ground,rev the f out of her,or just don't maintain her properly,then like anything,you will end up with a broken motorcycle.Don't blame the bike,blame an aggressive right hand.
Baggers running 7s. No hotrodding there.
Missed you bud. Good to have a video from you today.
I've done lots of research & watched many of your helpful videos before buying parts for my builds. 2006 street glide, Arlen Ness big sucker, pro pipe, fueling OEM+ cam plate, 509 S&S cam, & Power vision. Bike runs real strong for 88 cubes. Keep up the great videos! I'll be watching. Thanks
"Research" The most overused word ever in the internet era.
My 88 is still running great after 17 years.
Why would you spend extra time and money on the bottom end? Shiny paint is the important thing.
Right now, it may feel like a few rough & rocky steps on your winding path up the mountain my friend, but just remember the view you will get from the top will have made the whole journey worthwhile.
Not every step is easy, but every step counts towards your destination so long as you never give up mate. 👍
Thanks for your content and valuable info
Thank you! I appreciate the support!
I’ve been a follower for a good while now, you deserve way more subs.
I bought an 01 Dyna and afterwards found out it had the Timkin bearings and bolted flywheel. Another $2,500 got me a forged cam plate, better oil pump, gear drive cams, new lifters, inner cam bearings, S&S .510 cams and adjustable pushrods. It's finally as good as an Evo. It came with a Supertrapp 2:1, K&N filter and Mikuni 42mm carb. I added a billet fork brace and Jagg oil cooler. Was going to do a 95" kit with high compression, headwork and forged pistons but it runs so well I hate to touch it but stage IV is just one step away.....
Congrats on the new place Of course man i cant wait for a new vid every week!
Thank you for the support!
Always great content
Please keep it up😎
Thanks for all the great content you provide!! I bought a FLHXS 2021 $43,000.00 CAD Right out of the box shifter pawl spring had to be replaced.few month later if you leave the ignition on wile fueling the ECM locks up and the bike won't start must leave it sit with ignition off for 10 min.(dealer can't repair it)and this year went on my first ride throttle by wire puts the bike in LIMP MODE . OH YES and the front disc have been replaced 2 times warping problems. I sold my 2004 ultra classic to my Nabour and he IS having a blast with that bike LOL THANKS HD
Thank you for all your information
I have had several shovels over the years new and used . I never had any issues with them and were quite reliable with proper maintenance and upkeep. That’s the major problem with the shovels was the lack of maintenance cause the majority of the problems .
Facts 👌 💯
After I bought my shovels (used) and all the issues were fixed, they have given me no problems whatsoever. (knock on wood)
I believe you're right. Shovels were reliable if they were maintained properly. The other reason for their bad reputation was too many of them wound up in the hands of people that simply abused them.
100% right, I have had shovels half my life with no problems out of the ordinary.
That’s true with all engines.
Congrats there Foo, you got at least the camera backdrop of your new creative work center organized. It’s just not the same as when we could take bets on that shelf behind you and if it was going to collapse by your next video! The suspense that used to add to your videos was palpable.
I love your perspective. I know Moving sucks ! about 7 years ago I got eviction notice on my BD & less than a month to find a place & move. I am set up now About 2000 ' A/C ( Florida) but its been rough. But im still here & going forward. EVO's ROCK!!!! Cant wait to see your shop
Best of luck with your new shop I really like your show keep up the good work
Thanks for doing this video, I didnt know about the pressed cranks, I guess I never thought about those things. I have a 2008 Sportster 1200 other than the intake air box and the exhaust pipes I will leave it alone.
Great that you've made the move and I pray you won't have any more strife. I noticed your sound is much cleaner too, lavalier mic?
Great video. I miss your old garage with the overloaded shelf lol
Glad to see you back
I hope the circumstances you speak of aren't family related. Wish you all the best and keep the videos comin bruh.
I love your program Brother!
God Bless you and your family!
Really enjoy your vids.👍
Well, don’t forget we always have S&S and if you go that way that should fix most of your problems
You always have the best info.. I run a 98 and enjoy the old stage eagle stuff
Glad your back & maken videos
All the Best ...great info ..
As always. Top video. thanks and keep hem coming
Love your educational content
Thank you! I appreciate the support!
Are they really that bad do you really need to ask that question ⁉️ cheap components and major areas that are prone to cause catastrophic at expensive engine failure. Compensators that make the primary change so tight IT destroys the bearings in the transmission as well as breeder issues that suck transmission oil out. Plastic manifolds and an engine runs hot enough to cook a turkey 🦃. Jeep wiring harnesses made in Mexico that go up in smoke and if you are lucky your motorcycle just not go up and smoke with it. One problem after another problem after another problem because they built their engines to be cheap and disposable. As the British say pennywise and pound-foolish. Why Harley customers do not demand to have factory rebuild their motorcycles under warranty I have no idea. Harley Davidson evolution motors for the big twin as well as the Sportster where the Pinnacle of dependability and reliability and everything they have built since then is Cheer garbage. You yourself have a million videos about all of the many many mechanical issues of the big twin engines at Harley has made over the last 20 years since the discontinuation of the evolution motor. Hundreds of rebuild videos concerning the twin cam and the milwaukee-eight having catastrophic engine failure with horrendously low mileage. you yourself banter about changing stuff like the cam plate to a good s&s cam plate yet the good plate cost $500 not including installation. And that is just the beginning. Honda and the other Japanese manufacturers would never put out engines with so many endemic problems straight from the factory. They do not use their customers as unpaid testers. Harley-Davidson went from having real customers to having Fanboys that will pay any price for any piece of garbage that they put out. And then they will nonchalantly drop five or ten thousand dollars and replace all of the cheap crap in the engine from the crankshaft all the way up. Yet I know Harley can build a reliable motorcycle if they feel like it because I have a 25 year old Forester with 400,000 miles on her. Why is Harley Davidsons most inexpensive motorcycle that most reliable and their most expensive motorcycle the most unreliable piece of s*** that ever came down 👎 a production line. AMF sold a complete line of motorcycles from a beginner to an expert, the new Harley-Davidson is a t-shirt company that sells motorcycles as a sideline. Today's $30,000 Harley has the quality of a Chinese scooter that you buy on Amazon. That is pathetic beyond words. Harley-Davidson big twin motorcycles have so many expensive problems I would not take for free that is how bad they are. And so it goes.
Couldn't have said it better myself. If people stuck together and wouldn't buy that junk they would fix it or go out of business. Either one is fine for me.
I agree. It's unthinkable that they could make a much better engine and simply chose not to. I never knew about all these issues until after I bought my 01 twin cam. I've spent over $3,000 eliminating the factory/ engineering weak spots. Why wouldn't a company want their best possible product going out the door? Allowing.012 end play on their crankpin is absurd. They're becoming a joke
Can't really agree with your fan boy chatacterization nice try though.
@@carlbruhn1772 it was a tongue-in-cheek joke. But there are many Fanboys out on RUclips praising them to high heavens just like all of the guys who are fanboys for Lionel trains and make excuses for trains arriving with wrapping paper stuck to wet paint paint defects electronic defects broken missing parts horrible customer service and poor warranties the expense does not match the price the quality does not match the price. Let me put it this way if Harley-Davidson made aircraft I would not fly 🕊️ them.
@Frank Markovci Jr I completely see what you mean under those circumstances. If I was 18 again there is little chance the motor company would appeal to me. Just the quality of chrome, paint, and fitment of body parts alone are reason to look elsewhere. Watching fork legs pit and look like crap after 12 months is a joke. I certainly don't hold them in high regard but I certainly enjoy the ride and the wrenching.
As a Harley owner all my life and the son of a Harley owner I would like to know when did Harley ever have quality?
Couldn’t put my finger on it at first, then it hit. You must be related to the guy from project farm. I’m convinced it’s the same voice…… great content keep it up
Thanks
I did get some rework done on my 2018 Road King Police with a multitude of things including a new oil pump and installed am external breather. So far it's been running great and I have about 80k miles on it. I ride it everyday down here in Florida. Hopefully it lasts
How much did the oil pump and labor cost you? Need to do the same to my 2018 Low Rider eventually.
@@Peter-nm1ps I actually bought it used with 10k miles on it. The rest I've been putting on. It's actually been very reliable and the one time that I did get it towed was for a nail in the tire and since I had the wheel and tire warranty, that didn't cost me anything
@@Peter-nm1ps that's great that it still runs good. I'm not into sport bikes anymore unless it's a track day. I just find Harley cruisers way more comfortable and practical for everyday use. To each thier own though. At least you're on two wheels. Keep riding, and keep enjoying what you're doing
@@Kajemyster The oil pump was covered under warranty and they actually changed it to a 2022 oil pump. I'm looking to changed out the cam plate, and put in a new cam as well to the ones gixxerfoo recommended for a little more power and longevity. I may have my local shop do that instead of taking it to a Harley dealership. I got quoted about $800 for the cam plate, cam and labor.
Just found your channel. Learning tons. Got a merch store yet?
I really like my Evo, so far. My friends with TCs love my Evo.
Please put that old wonky shelf back up in your new shop. It makes us feel at home.
Gixxerfoo! Welcome back!
Still RIPpin dad's 81 fxwg Shovel 👌🤘 original motor 40+years old. The community appreciates ya Gix ✊
A lot of the Milwaukee 8 when you change the Fluids you will have metal on all 3 drain plugs including the engine. I put s&S 1200 KITin the 2021 883. The gear case was loaded with metal fragments from when the cases were machined and not cleaned properly.
Thank you, love this video and all the info! Kept hearing “harley cut corners”…evo was too reliable, twin cam ensured customers had to come back for repairs (cam chain tensioners big one) lol. Great info, learn a lot!
Glad yer doing good,love yer content
My FXR Evo motor sounds great, super reliable in the summer and during our cold winters here in Canada.
I ride it minus -10 Celsius and this crazy motor loves winters.
No issues at all
Love your stuff
Enjoy the channel, always look forward to Fridays.
Anything made after the Evo is cheap crap, and I call them PlastiGlides®️.
I bought an '02 Softail Springer, but sold it after 2mos, because it felt like riding a Honda, the heart and soul of the machine was gone.
My '97 WideGlide is twice the machine the new ones are, but it still makes my '72 ElectraGlide look like a tank.
You couldn't give me a new Harley.
Sportster evos rule
Most solid engine they ever made hands down!
bought a new road glide recently. the clutch slipped terribly right out the box. got it home, rode around for a few days and had to put it in the shop.
New shop is always fun....Always enjoy your videos.
Question I have a 2003 Sportster 1200s is that an Evo engine?
Ride Safe🇺🇸
Yes, it has an evolution engine. They're easy to work on and very reliable.
old bud lite cans as pistons was a bad idea
I got a 99 FXDL. Just put on a S&S 510 gear drive kit, thunder header exhaust and mikuni carb. Bike rips, dyno was showing 78 horsepower