The Key to How I Interpret Scripture
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- Опубликовано: 6 окт 2024
- I look at 3 stanzas in St. Ephrem’s book ‘Hymns on Paradise’, as well as some of my recent videos about Scripture and a short text from the Gospel of St. Matthew about St. Peter walking on water. Hopefully this video can give listeners a clue as to how I draw different texts together to think about symbolism in Scripture.
Hymns on Paradise: St. Ephrem the Syrian - Translated by Sebastian Brock: svspress.com/h...
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More on 'Hymns on Paradise':
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Image of Everything:
-Creating A Cosmic Image: • Creating A Cosmic Image
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My intro & outro were arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson.
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I wish someone would write a book called Pageau for Dummies.
Matteau pageau did! Its phenomenal. (Or is it symbolic?)
@@marcschaeffer1584 It's Phenbolic!
His brothers book is the best, but what’s crazy is when you read it you’ll see other writers referencing theses patterns as well, and without the book I wouldn’t have seen it before. For example Guenon draws heavily on symbolism in his writings and if you don’t understand it you’d probably think he was using metaphors
@@processrauwill7922 recently I used the concepts of symbolism to translate a drug induced quote from john Lennon, someone was using it as an example of complete and utter nonsense, but the moment I heard it I knew it wasnt.
@@marcschaeffer1584 really that's quite interesting, do you mind sharing the quote?
Forgive my long winded and self indulgent comment:
I was raised a loose Baptist. I always had a deep love for nature and animals. My family never went to church, but many of my friends families did and so I tagged along any time I spent a Saturday night at a friends. My grandmother may have been the most Christian person I ever met, with a few exceptions. They were all Protestant, but the honest to God people who gave their hearts over to Christianity, were always some of the most amazing and touching people I encountered.
When I was 14, I wrote a short paper on Egyptian Mythology. I intuitively recognized many similar symbolic patters, and my young mind, incapable of subtly, chalked it up to; "Its the exact same!" My response was not one of humble respect and curiosity; I concluded that Christianity was a big fake rip off. A few atheist friends of mine did not help my cause. This same year, I took up playing in a metal band with my friends. We played our first show that summer, and I thus went on to spend the next 7 years doing everything in my power to become a rock star.
I went to music school and during my second year I suddenly became acquainted with Pseudo-Buddhists, New Ager Spiritualists, Psychedelic Hippies and the like. My spiritual side (I had always been quite spiritual) was dormant for many years, but when I was 19, It remerged like a sleeping dragon. The Buddhist doctrine struck me and took me along for a ride, as well as all those mushrooms I ate.
The following years could easily be characterized by Chaos. Drugs, spirituality, yoga-meditation, communist ideology, rock and roll (lots and lots of shows, recordings, tours, parties), and a deep desire to flip society on its head.
Eventually all the bands broke up and it ended. I was left in the ruins of my life. I used music as an excuse to betray people, to end relationships, to be selfish in everything. I was prideful and desired recognition. But most of all, I was confused, and empty. My mushroom experiences were nearly too much to handle. I had experiences were I was convinced I died, had lost all sense of my individual self and seamless merged with something which, even after many many years of confused contemplation, I still could not call it anything but God. I am sure this is a heresy to say, but why stop now? I have lived a life saturated with selfishness and sin. But little did I know, God was working on me.
I was deeply into yoga, hinduism, Ram Dass, and the like. I needed to test out this faith I had and so I went traveling across Canada with no money. I worked from town to town, I hitch hiked, I hopped on freight trains, I couch surfed and slept under a tarp in the woods. I found the climax of my upside down living. I experienced more strange miraculous things than could fit in a book on that trip. I was taken care of and provided for in the most unexpected ways. It would be years before I was comfortable admitting that Gods hand was at work, otherwise I would have surly died a number of times.
By the end of the trip, I realized the value of work, I felt empty and guilty. Guilty for all the free rides and food I had taken from others. Other people who were committed to their families and living a good life. I could not have done that trip without most other people not doing something like that, and having the resources and the heart to open their homes to me. I encountered not the humanity the TV would have my believe, but people with abundance and openness in their hearts.
I desired to be in one place with one people more than anything. I wanted to watch people grow and be along side others in tough times. I wanted a community and stability. I took a job shovelling snow and I shovelled as hard as I good. They then offered me a job working for their roofing division. I broke my back on the roof for 4 years until the bottom half of my back literally stopped moving for about 8 months after I stopped roofing. By then I was 25 and was making $25 an hour as a supervisor of a crew of roofers. I was far from Christ in many ways still, but I was slowing getting certain things right. I had the added blessings of the words of Jordan Peterson and Jocko Wilink.
I eventually returned to University to become a Psychologist. I wound up taking a minor in Esoteric and Occult traditions. I studies Jung and Nietzsche and Kierkegaard and Dostoevsky with all the free time I had. Slowly I began to understand the spiritual traditions of the west (my lengthy study of the east helped massage me into this greatly). Finally, at age 27, at the end of my 2nd year of school, I wrote two essays that got A+'s from my professors. I tried to tie together religious ideas in with modern cognitive sciences, as well as doing deep studies of symbolism between Christianity and Christian Alchemy. Eventually, I came upon Jonathan Pageau.
The frame work had been built, the experiences were put in place. I was standing on the edge of reason and thought. An abyss stood before me and I trembled. The subject matter of my essays had my mind, heart, and soul swirling in the flood. I struggle to look up and I finally added Prayer into my spiritual routine of meditation and yoga. Christian Prayers.
After watching the latest Pageau and Peterson podcast, It was as if someone finally kicked me over the edge and I began to fall. I entered an extremely chaotic state as I was coming to understand. It flipped my whole self upside down and upside right like a proper storm. This was 4 months ago, and I have been obsessively studying Orthodoxy ever since.
I can see now how It was for my own benefit to write this hear. To see the story put down. I feel a certain sense of settledness. I hope, if anyone sorry enough to have read the dribble above, that it offers something beneficial.
I hesitate to call myself a Christian to this day, simply because I have not yet gone to Liturgy or properly joined a church. I am not baptized, and God knows I have been lost in loose living. But I pray everyday as much as I can possibly manage. I try to endlessly repeat the Jesus prayer and I am crossing myself every moment I am alone and no one watches. I feel there is nothing in this world which has captured the fullness of my heart like Christianity, and trust me, I have looked. I now firmly believe that Orthodoxy is coming back. The worse off the West becomes, the more Christian Roses will bloom. This movement is not yet known to the lost, but Christ is among us, rescuing the dead as he does. Slowly, so slowly, one would never notice until many years elapse. God is patient, and gentle steers us along his road. Glory to God for all things.
It is really wonderful to read about the trajectory of your life that brought you to the doorsteps of Orthodoxy. I had traveled many of the spiritual avenues that you went on. I know what you mean when you say you feel settled. Orthodoxy have given me the wholesome peace that I never found in such perfect completion. I hope you find your home Church soon 🙏🏾. God bless you.
You are not alone. You will never be alone. I will be with you, ALWAYS.
Glory to God my friend thank you for sharing! I’ve had a very similar story myself and it’s exciting to hear
Thanks for sharing this! Can definitely relate.
Thanks for sharing your tale! I enjoyed it so much and found it so relatable to my own process that I have taken screenshots to read it again in the future! I hope you're doing well out there!
Jonathan coming back from the margins, re-uniting with the center. The margins (covid) is in the proccess of integrating. Dont let the margins eat the center !! 🤛
Good to see you again.
That Christ pulling Peter from the water is an image of Creation itself makes me wonder, how many facets of true understanding are there to every single thing He did during His time here?
I've pondered this... And I've come to the conclusion that the only reasonable answer is that there is an infinite or near infinite number of facets to the truth or understanding that he demonstrated or revealed while he was here
I think the same thing about the Scripture... Which is that it is infinitely deep in it's meaning and if you're using sound reasoning and you find 10 interpretations to a passage and all of those are consistent with the rest of scripture then all 10 were designed to be there and there are 10 more that you're missing. At least that's my current thoughts on it
it is infinite. God is infinite, its the reason why we're still discussing it 2000 years later and will be discussing it for eternity.
@@christophermihaly7029 is it infinite? Or is it simply near infinite since he used a finite language and finite human ideas to write it?
@@WideAwakeHuman that finite human languages embody the infinity of the meaning is like the Incarnation of the Logos.
it's even holographic. each deed and saying of the Logos expresses the whole Logos; Who is always the same; yesterday, today, and tomorrow.
like each Pearl of the Eucharist is the Whole Body and Blood of Christ.
@@WideAwakeHuman recommend reading Dionysious the Aeropogite to understand what it means to be infinite(at least to the extent we can).
This is such good spiritual psychology! It helped me to pray today as I put myself in Peter’s place since I can be such a sinking rock sometimes when I give up my intuitive higher connection between my nous and the top of the mountain Who is Christ! I found myself seeing with my inner eye the top of the Mt of Transfiguration which I spent a lot of time at the top of in 2019. I could see the cloud that came down over me literally that blessed day! Thank you as I now feel prepared to get on with today’s work for the kingdom in our candle and icon business and the building of our Union of All Orthodox Christian Healing Arts Center here near Yosemite National Park and the gold rush country of California! Bless you!
@Isaac Jared I understand! But keep asking Him to show you what specific tasks you need to do today that aim ultimately at your mission in the world for Him. Try to remember God during the day and take up the Jesus Prayer if only for a few minutes or even seconds. The Way of the Householder is not the way of the monk but as we keep our mind focused and at rest in Him as we work we can keep our peace a little better each day. Sometimes we have to temper how much time we spend in deep prayer when we are in the world. But we still need our long periods with Him too. We have infrared saunas at our healing center which will hopefully open soon for Orthodox Christians to come and pray and work together in art activities etc. I hope to get a Jesus prayer group going too! God bless you!
Very timely I came across this comment... I stumbled across a piece of writing by Saint Theophylact who says, I believe in relation to Matthew 14:25-33 when Christ walks on water and Peter follows only to sink: “The Lord laid the sea down beneath Peter’s feet, revealing his power. See how Peter prevailed over that which was greater, the sea, but was afraid of the lesser peril, the wind; such is the weakness of human nature. And it was as soon as he became afraid that he began to sink. For when his faith weakened, then Peter went down.”
I can't think of a better way to describe some of my failings than having (to some extent) prevailed over the sea to then stutter in the wind.
Some strong resonance too as the son of a Peter (Petros) who hasn't been with us for over a decade now.
Focus on Christ!
I cannot view the Facebook page of your healing arts center. Where can I find more info about it?
Wrapping it up with the metaphor of teams losing their way without a leader was helpful 🙏
Thank you , and may you be blessed and recover fully
This is a very, very fruitful video. Shared with some friends. Well done.
I just want to say thanks for helping us all build our arks - it is a blessing to our family
Interesting how the story in Matthew 14 matches the pattern of the Eschaton as well! Infinite wisdom in the Word, Amen.
Good to have you back, missed you! Blessings
Your beautiful interpretations and explanations, is exactly what I need on my journey towards Orthodox Christianity.
I’m glad that you feel better now 🙌🏼.
Thank so much for this video!
godspeed to your health
This is beautiful. I somehow missed it when it first came out. But what a lovely 25 minutes on a Saturday morning. Folding the laundry and smiling away.
Thanks
Thank you Jonathan
This is a fascinating contrast to Dante's idea of the Mountain of Purgatory. That is so very logical and mental. This is mystical and allusive. Precisely limning the difference between Eastern Faith and Western Scholasticism.
Pageau is back and back at his best! Great upload!
Thank you, Jonathan.
Extremely practical at the end. Thank you, Jonathan. Good to see you recovered!
I love your images/illustrations
Amazing! Thank you Jonathan! Please make more vids like this!
Glad to hear you feel better.
Glad that you're getting better! I hope that you stay healthy.
Thank you John. You've created a really clear image of several overlays that wonderfully relate to each other. I appreciate your discernment.
You are back for sure!
Beautifully said! I’m grateful for you brother. 🙏🏻
God bless you brother 🙏
Very grateful that you're getting over that C19. Thanks for making this video.
Thanks Jonathan!
It becomes easier to identify patterns the more you read varying scriptures, not exclusive to any one religion. You start to see the human conception of divinity and nature does not stray far from one another although presentation varies
Exodus 20:2 and Deuteronomy 5:6
everything I like and find meaning in is related to the divine.
@@leondbleondb proverbs 30;20 This is the way of an adulteress: she eats and wipes her mouth and says, “I have done no wrong.”... and it is related to Christ who became sin who knew no sin and his church and the process of a blinding light which appears to be darkness at the first just as our father at first seems like an adversary. there is the tree of knowledge of good and evil and then there is the tree of life. all that will remain is that which can endure because that is the nature of goodness. "you shall have no other gods before me" is a spiritual reality that must be had for oneself just as God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. if God is not the God of you then you are automatically an idolater and the God you confess to obey is little more than a strange god in a foreign land.
The human conception is the problem. Scripture should be understood through the holy fathers of the Orthodox Church, as it has, always, everywhere by everyone, orthodox. All others fall short.
@@HubertofLiege God is offended by this.
Awesome! Glad to see a video pop up in my feed and super glad that you seem to be recovering. Glory to God!!
Also, I'm about halfway through Matthieu's book and something about the way he lays these ideas out is really helping me engage with what you're talking about, and what Lord of Spirits is talking about. You are talking about the same things, essentially. It's been great. Stay healthy! 😁
Very awesome
Happy you came back healthy, Jonathan. Thank you for sharing your wisdom again!
Wow ! You help me so much !
I'm loving the new opening animation. More close photography would be great!
Glad you’re doing well, Jonathan.
Anyone else miss the old intro instrumental?
so another video that can be seen as a response to President Sunday's critique.. I hope that two of u will a have a chat in the end..
I thought the same thing haha. It's gonna be hard going, Sunday is pretty steeped in historical criticism. But I hope for the best as well!
Hello Jonathan!
In the latter part of this video you refer repeatedly to "the reason why you're doing things." Each time you say this, my mind immediately translates it into "telos." Does this seem accurate to you, and have you spoken much about the meaning of telos in other places? I have watched much of the content you've so far posted, but don't recall.
Thank you!
-an atheist who greatly enjoys and shares your work
A simple thing, listening to this a year later. I hear the phrase, “ pulling threads”, and suddenly, my mind has a clearer picture: we pull these threads in order to condense, not to tear apart.
I think I would like to see a course on interpreting stuff...
Can you comment on the Biblical scholar’s trope that in the early church there were two very distinct approaches to scripture reading: “Literal”, exemplified by John Chrysostom; and “Alegorical”, via Augustine?
It is pure bullshit.
So eloquent, so succinct. 😂
Funny cuz when St. Augustine died, he was working on a book titled (in English) _On the Literal Interpretation of Genesis_
I always thought Jesus walking on water meant exactly that. If you trust him and walk the spiritual path, you won't sink and matter can't touch you. So simple yet profound.
I have a question to you (all), but first some context: I grew up in a Protestant household, being exposed to Biblical stories since birth almost. Later on in life I found Christianity to be arbitrary and unphilosophical, why I turned my attention to ancient Indian philosophy (especially the Bhagavad Gita). After a long struggle for striving at truth I discovered that I should reorient myself to understand my own culture and tradition, which is why I‘ve come across Jonathan Pageau (through Jordan Peterson, as many did).
Now I‘m continually learning how rich, contemplative, deep and surprising Christianity actually is, which was not the case in my earlier Protestant upbringing.
But there is a caveat for me: I still have a hard time reading the Bible. Really hard time. I oftentimes don‘t get it (even if I think I can read the symbolism at times…), I get bored with it easily and I just don‘t know how to proceed with it or process it.
This is why I read and watch videos ABOUT the Bibical stories, but don‘t exposed myself to it directly. But I want to!
So my question is: How do you actually „read“ the Bible practically? What Bible/which translation? With/without commentary? Should I read it from beginning to end?
I‘d like to hear some advice with personal experience. Thanks a lot :)
I'm just commenting here so that if someone gives some sound advice I get alerted too! I've almost read the whole New Testament (minus the ones removed during the reformation) in a rather short amount of time so the enthusiasm is there, but I do wonder if there is a better translation I should be reading than the NLT I'm currently using. Thanks for the question. ☺️
I am curious about your understanding on baptism, both the figurative nature of it and the necessity of it physically.
Yes it was at about 33 years old when it first noticed it didn't sound right when everything else outside it was in fact right yes at 33 35 ish it noticed and no it's never seen anything describable as supernatural or outside of standard visual anomalies except, nah never mind that so, how's you day going.
Have you talked to Jewish rabbi and Jewish scholar that you might incorporate Gematria in symbology and typology that you may find the accurate insight about the code of creation?
Some Church Father like St Irenaeus also used to use Gematria to calculate the mark of the beast
At 19:20 when you look into the verse where Peter was afraid of not the waves, but of the boisterous wind, and that it’s our in our thoughts and subtleties that we tend towards fear - I had another thought. Could it also be that wind symbolizes the intimate intersection between Heaven and earth. Winds are most often associated with the sea, and the pattern of winds across the oceans (ie hurricanes, etc) often generate great fear in us as we can’t pin them down or subdue them as we can earth or water? Just a rambling thought but had to get it out there.
Hey Johnny.
Equating the boat of disciples waiting for Jesus with Noah's ark seems like a mistake. The ark is one of the most sublime symbols of the order obtained through individuation - it is like a temple that unites the menagerie of instincts which otherwise are wild and untamed. it is also a vessel over those uncontrollable waters guided by both God and the pilot.
But where has our Man gone? Where has our organizing principle disappeared to? Am I projecting my sinking feeling unfairly to the rest of the world? Or are we really sinking?
Has it finally come to us to stop burdening those figures tied up in our father complexes and find order for ourselves? Or does someone need to save us?
How long must we wait for our Man - our organizing principle - to return? Maybe I am faithless. But maybe our situation is more dire than we can imagine and this soothing poetry Jonathan reads is just that - soothing.
Do I get it right - you are quite despondent right now.
Our Man is not just an organising principle though - he is alive and doing a great job in many people's hearts......if we let him!
What is the analogy of Christ leaving his disciples on a boat to go up on the mountain in daily life? I don’t mean in terms of your manager in work, but in terms of spiritual life.
We who are in the boat can connect with Him anytime with the Jesus Prayer! And breathe!
Oh damn, have a great recovery from covid
Maybe I'll make a video trying to unpack your unpacking.
What about It
First.
🏅
Great video, but I think the old intro music was better imho.
9:25
What’s the name of the painting in your background?
Does anyone know why the people in the Old Testament lived over 500 years? Is this literal or symbolic in some way I don’t know
It's related to them living more full and complete lives, which is usually marked as 1000 years.
There's a video called "Why people in the Old Testament lived so long" on Jonathan's 'Clips' channel.
@@Joshualbatross thank you
Can you make my mate SCALPKING RUNNINGBULL BUMFUKHOLELOVER one pleade
[comment]
Nice haircut
Has he ever explained the adam and eve-icon-thingy in the intro video?
It is an orthodox icon. Same as “the old philosopher “ you referenced earlier. The Orthodox Church is the historical, authentic Christian expression. It is unchanged in continuity back to Christ. Look into church history and discover what I am referring too
He has, on multiple occassions. Basically its the creation of Eve and it symbolizes femininity, which the current world is lacking.
Third.
🥉
You are not a christian by your own merit but by the Grace of God.
No one who is a believer in Christ can claim he is a believer in Christ by his own effort.
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be anathema.
Galatians 1:8
Exegesis, not eisegesis.
second.
🥈
You look a little wrecked 😊 we missed you
Who me personally or me angryally or me obliviousally and or me deliciousally, because you have to ask them individually but before you do I warned you about them....remember
Eye eye captain 🛶
lack of richness in this wretched world is something God cloths himself with and fills. this is the only justification for parts of our bible nowadays in this modern world who are often stricken with offense at the evils in the bible. God is not limited so much as men are but God transcends sin even if others become a tangled serpent "ξ" which is one of the numbers/letters of the mystery of 666. remember when God said "let there be light" that he was talking to you.
Honestly nice haircut you might get in on just the haircut alone by yourself some day.
Does your interpretation work more than for identifying symbols, and sculpting icons?
Why does he have to use some old philosopher to interpret scripture? How can I know he isn't wrong? I don't trust this (but, I want to).
We must each find our own way. Do you recite the psalms? They often provide wonderful messages: “Make Thy ways, O Lord, known unto me and teach me Thy paths. Lead me in Thy truth and teach me” (Psalm 24) “For behold, Thou hast loved truth; the hidden and secret things of Thy wisdom hast Thou made manifest unto me” (Psalm 50) Attitude is important, of course. Therefore, making oneself more relevant to God (and not expecting the other way around).
I had to watch about 5 video's before i finally began to understand what he was/is saying..It really is a different way of interpreting the world.I believe a true way and it's helpful.
The patterns the old philosopher is observing are the principles of creation or the Logos. The wisdom was given to prepare the minds of the Greeks to receive Christ, which they did. We are created to worship and know God. Paul talks in Romans how all of Creation points ☝️ to God. Symbolism is the way our consciousness is written.
If you study the lives of the Orthodox saints, you'll understand why they are trustworthy guides
Every year on Pascha, the Holy Fire descends into the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and for about 15 minutes one can hold the flame against his skin and it will not burn him. In a similar way, a special Grace was present in the world at the time of the Apostles and the early Saints and Church Fathers. These were men of incredible prayer and feats of asceticism, the likes of which are very rarely seen today (you need only read about the Stylite monks to get just a sampling of their miraculous works). The early Saints drew very near to God by their holy lives and thus their theological insights established- through the Councils and Canons- what is deemed acceptable by the Church at all times and in all places. I am sure that today there are still incredible Christian monastics with feats like those of the early Fathers, but they gradually become fewer and further between because of the great materialist apostasy that forms as history approaches the modern Age. The early Church Fathers of Holy Orthodoxy are still to this day our best resource for proper interpretation of Scripture, theology, and ecclesiology, largely because of their chronological proximity to Christ's earthly sojourn.
Can you do the Qur'an? Lots of truth about Jesus and Mother Mary in Surah Maryam
Take your wife camping. She was giving you a hint. You’ll thank me later.
Were you vaccinated, Jonathan?
It on screen it was willing to sacrifice you for a meth lab in China neither of us have ever heard or seen. Honestly.
I enjoy your content Jonathan but the ONLY way to interpret scripture is by the HOLY SPIRIT. Without God as your guide, the Bible cannot accurately be interpreted. Even the simplest child can understand with God's Spirit. However, without HIM - not even a genius with a Phd in literature will understand the WORD. Symbolism is wonderful to decipher but unless a man is guided by the HOLY SPIRIT - it is all in vanity.
Then 99,9% of the world's theologians, priests and bishops are up to no good. The mystics and saints always interpret the scripture essentially different than this who talks and preach alot. Also, it is a superb way to go about dismissing people that don't confirm to tradition or biased and far to long surviving religious dogma.
@@M-i-k-a-e-l I agree - up to no good! There is only ONE RIGHT way to interpret scripture and that is being led by the HOLY SPIRIT. "For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart." - Hebrews 4:2
All life is rooted in the Holy Spirit, which is why one can not simply take the thier individual interpretation and place it above all others.
Sorry my comment is a little edged. Totally agree with approaching the Kingdom of Heaven as a Child 👍
Nothing you're saying is wrong, but I'm curious about your implication. Jonathan is clearly a practicing & believing Christian so for me his communion with the Holy Spirit would already be a given. Are you implying Jonathan doesn't know the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?
@@MediaDream93 I do not know Jonathan. I always enjoy his observations but I wanted to voice a public warning about trusting in our own understanding. There is a danger in much knowledge of scripture, literary styles and symbols apart from knowing God himself.
It will eat it and it and you and leave it and you sobbing and running in the garden somewhere between some other losers
so you "had" the wuhan chicken nuggets virus
Yeah...thats great and all.
The realtionship between a man and a woman being very important and stuff laike that you say.
...doesent help those of us that CONSTANTLY lose on that front, and are condemned to lonliness in THIS life.
The one where all the tests occur.
...pretty much, after so many attempts and this, I don't want to hear it.
It isn't making anything better to hear somone with a complete family pontificate on paradise and how it relates to relationships between men and women.
...some of us are locked out of such blessings, for whatever reason.
You would be better off talking about the theology that can be read in the icons.
In case you have not noticed, we are assailed by images these dsys.
It would be helpful to be better at reading the holy icons.
Sheer humbug.
Interpretation should be on basis of EXPERIENCE and NOT imagination and scholarship.
Thank you, Jonathan.