Bought a gloss dial 16800 a few months ago for around 6000$ without box or papers. It's already gone up in price. No regrets. I love the clinking sounds and how it can be worn like a modern watch without worry. Great video 👍
I just bought a submariner at an estate sale and it ended up being a 16800. We did our homework and were in awe of all the cool transitional features. Thank you for the extra knowledge. You literally made my day by making this video. Keep it up!!
Funny that you share the same idea I did John. I looked at getting a 16800, a 83 but have yet to find one that I liked and was in my price. You're getting more relaxed in your vids, good job man!
Stumbled upon your channel and I'm glad I did. You really are passionate about watches. I'm amazed that so many of these 'vintage' Rolexes survived with these dial / lume 'defects'. It must mean that they were never sent to an official Rolex Service Centre for servicing. I say this because when Rolex services a watch they would usually change any defective parts like dials or hands etc. Surely, a Rolex owner of the time would have been pissed off if their expensive watch dial started to show signs of cracks as this would be deemed a defect! At the time they would never have known that these 'defects' would actually make their watch more valuable 30 or 40 years down the line!
Excellent video John you really nailed it on the 16800. The Calbre 3035 was a huge step up from the 1575. It's a real pain to set the date on a 1575 if you let it sit for a week or two.
John, your comfort behind the camera is great! The info is good although I’m not at a vintage Rolex level. But I love the Jag E-type poster behind you.
So pleased to have found your channel. Having most of the current Rolex steel sport models, I became interest in vintage. I just recently purchased the 16800 for many of the reasons you discussed, (a complete set for $7.800). Researching the dial, there was a lot of information or possibly misinformation regarding the dial. Saying some of the early matte dials did not have the white gold indices; Rolex utilizing the remaining stock of 1680 dials. That Rolex did produce some matte dials with metal indices before completely transitioning to gloss dials in the 1980's. Mine, from 1986 is now perfectly matte, the tritium has beautifully patinated, along with pearl on the bezel, which now has a reddish hue. Having considered buying some new retro watches with faux patina, I’m glad I got the real thing. Going to now watch your video on Datejusts having just bought two Oysterquartz Datejusts. Regards.
Great video! The only carry-over from the 1680 is the matte dial, so I would consider only the matte-dialed 16800 to be "transitional". I picked up an early 16610 also with "sponge dial", but the benefits of the modern 3135 movement.
I agree. The 16800 is massively underrated. Sapphire crystal and quick set date make it much more wearable than something like a 1680. I picked up a matte dial 16800 a few weeks back for under $7k. Good luck finding another matte dial sub for that price.
@@JohnPWatches Thanks! I wasn't really looking for one but it was a deal too good to pass up. Now, it gets most of my wrist time. It really is a great vintage daily driver.
Looking forward to seeing some close up shots of your dial and what you call the sponge. My gloss dial 16800 has many fine cracks - the spider web effect but also what I’d call mottling/spotting mostly around the edge of the dial. I’d wondered if the watch had had some water ingress at some point but after watching your video am thinking it’s just ageing of the dial. Open 6’s and 9’s on the date wheel add to the vintage Rolex feel. Great video btw.
The spotting is what I consider sponge. Rolex did not perfect their gloss yet around 85-86 so, some dials just began losing the gloss in patchy areas over time.
John P that’s interesting. I’d wager that lots of these sponge/spider dials were replaced by Rolex when serviced making our original dials more of a rarity. They won’t be everyone’s cup of tea though - some will just see them as defective.
Totally agree on the 16800. One of my favorite Rolex Subs. Been buying this model for many years. I prefer the early matte dial version. Not that long ago you could get one for under 5k if you looked around. I recently sold a nice matte dial without box/papers for 8k so these are going up relatively fast compared to a 16610. A good 5513 is a great vintage but your right, the plastic crystals need to be babied and I wouldn’t trust an acrylic crystal in anything more than splashing around in a pool or showering. The sapphire on the 16800 is every bit as reliable as the modern Subs. Another Sub that has all the correct attributes to accelerate in appreciation is the 116600 Seadweller 4000, 40mm Ceramic. Only made this watch less than 3 years, 2014 to mid 2016. It has the thin lugs (non Maxi case) like the older aluminum bezel Seadweller and Subs. Has the new Maxi dial with modern Chromalight blue lume, new Ceramic bezel insert, Glidelock bracelet. In many ways it is a transitional model to the current Seadweller and Deep Sea. For sure the 116600 will be a very sought after model and you can still get them at around list price.
I did buy one 4 years ago €5900... It's almost doubled in value... the dial is getting a nice patina.. the metal bracelet has some wear so in order to stop this I wear it with Nato Straps
Hi John , fantastic video, gain much insights Was very keen in getting a 16800 , checked with my dealer, whom I’ve dealing with and he said he will try sourcing for me Last week , he text me and showed me he found a 168000. Did some readings, and thought was a good buy , and the deal was closed Though already bought the piece appreciate if you would share some in-depth details on the 168000 Do you think was a wise move for the purchase ? Thank you
The 1680 is the one I own. I got it 1976 from my dad. The watch was a beater tool watch. 42 years later I have to be careful to keep in good conditions. The design is the best and by far better than the maxy case. I see the Submariner needs to be redesigned as they did with: James Cameron, GMTII and Datejust....
To be honest, unless you are looking at a early production 16800 with the mat dial and painted incidences, there really isn't much difference between it and a 90's tritium dial 16610. 16610 can also be had for a lower price and has many of the characteristic features such as the drill though lug holes and tritium dial up to 1997. The 16800 also had the caliber 3035 which utilizes a glued , yes glued balance spring. The 3135 in the 16610 had a laser welded balance spring. The prices on a early production mat dial is also higher than the later glossy production with the wg indices which then gets into the 1680 plastic crystal prices and if I were given a choice between the two, id go true vintage 1680 all day. One thing that many don't seem to notice is the 16800 has a shallower rehaut than the 16610.
John: Great video. I've been looking at some of these models. It appears to me that Rolex may have replaced some of these dials at a service interval. What do you think? Specifically a 1985 where the dial looks almost too nice.
Hi Roamy, certainly possible! The interesting thing with these watches is that the way the dials handled the years seem to be very inconsistent, and also not tied to specific years. For Example, I've seen spider, matte, and sponge dials all from the same year not too far apart in serials. With more examples studied, the vintage watch community will collectively shed some light on this in the coming years, but until then most of these are likely to lay tucked away in dealer vaults, show rooms, and average-joe security boxes.
Very informative video. My Sub is blue face, ss/gold bracelet, date, purchased new in 1997, and believe it was 3 years old at that time. What model should I own? How can I ID it for certain?n Am just now learning about the variations, etc.
Hey John, what are your thoughts on 5513 matte vs 14060m 2 liner? Also, will the 14060's change to matte eventually? Seems like the 5513s are priced way more than the 14060s unjustifiably.
Good idea. I would be surprised if the 14060 changed matte, or at least within a normal lifetime, though perhaps on their earlier examples. Honestly, it is really too early to tell on this one. If we approach it logically though, perhaps after 300 years the gloss would have turned matte. Seams reasonable right? But no way to know in the near future.
Thank you jp for the like hehe I guess your craft is really with vintage take time to study and review more vintage in the future... hoping you be watchfinder soon 200k subscribers good luck
Thank you jp for the like hehe I guess your craft is really with vintage take time to study and review more vintage in the future... hoping you be watchfinder soon 200k subscribers good luck...
Yes, the 38mm and a very excellent watch. It really should have saved the brand, but unfortunately very few people paid attention. For those that like an extremely well made, highly finished, in house sports watch, and don't necessarily care if people recognize the brand- buy one before GP stops selling them just as they did the first time they released these 30 years ago. I suppose I am obligated to make a video review since I really am the only advocate of the brand.
That’s good to hear, congrats on the purchase man. I’d really like to see some other dial variations other than just that blue one, cause it really is a gorgeous watch.
I came i saw i subbed. Dude, you are a good vintage rolex guy. I love it, pls report to clyve the wrangler as friend, maybe can go on air liveshows with him sometimes, gonna be cool with rolex topics. Ignore that fatso ac3 channels though.
Not all that shine is gold guys, collectors will buy the 1st edition or the last one if you buy one in the middle don't expect to any significant gain.
Something that out me off with this model. The 16800 has a 3035 movement. The hairspring in the 3035 is glued on to the balance cock stud. The 3135 and newer movements are laser welded on.
Bought a gloss dial 16800 a few months ago for around 6000$ without box or papers. It's already gone up in price. No regrets.
I love the clinking sounds and how it can be worn like a modern watch without worry.
Great video 👍
Mazin alhamdani Same!!
I just bought a submariner at an estate sale and it ended up being a 16800. We did our homework and were in awe of all the cool transitional features. Thank you for the extra knowledge. You literally made my day by making this video. Keep it up!!
Thanks! Do you plan on keeping it?
Ya I’m going to keep it. I wear it and want it as an investment.
@@JohnPWatches I have one as well..83 just serviced
Funny that you share the same idea I did John. I looked at getting a 16800, a 83 but have yet to find one that I liked and was in my price. You're getting more relaxed in your vids, good job man!
Think of if you would have jump to the present time. The 6 or 7 grand watch I'd now well over 10..and as high as 13+
Stumbled upon your channel and I'm glad I did. You really are passionate about watches.
I'm amazed that so many of these 'vintage' Rolexes survived with these dial / lume 'defects'. It must mean that they were never sent to an official Rolex Service Centre for servicing.
I say this because when Rolex services a watch they would usually change any defective parts like dials or hands etc.
Surely, a Rolex owner of the time would have been pissed off if their expensive watch dial started to show signs of cracks as this would be deemed a defect!
At the time they would never have known that these 'defects' would actually make their watch more valuable 30 or 40 years down the line!
Excellent video John you really nailed it on the 16800. The Calbre 3035 was a huge step up from the 1575. It's a real pain to set the date on a 1575 if you let it sit for a week or two.
John, your comfort behind the camera is great! The info is good although I’m not at a vintage Rolex level. But I love the Jag E-type poster behind you.
Thanks Tod!
I own a 168000. I love it!
thank you for adding "girl" .... we do exist in getting these watches lol
So pleased to have found your channel. Having most of the current Rolex steel sport models, I became interest in vintage. I just recently purchased the 16800 for many of the reasons you discussed, (a complete set for $7.800). Researching the dial, there
was a lot of information or possibly misinformation regarding the dial. Saying some of the early matte dials did not have the
white gold indices; Rolex utilizing the remaining stock of 1680 dials. That Rolex did produce some matte dials with metal indices
before completely transitioning to gloss dials in the 1980's. Mine, from 1986 is now perfectly matte, the tritium has beautifully
patinated, along with pearl on the bezel, which now has a reddish hue. Having considered buying some new retro watches with
faux patina, I’m glad I got the real thing. Going to now watch your video on Datejusts having just bought two Oysterquartz
Datejusts.
Regards.
Thanks for the addition!
Thanks, again I thought you were spot on.
You can tell you are passionate about vintage! Great episode!
Thanks Paul!
Great video! The only carry-over from the 1680 is the matte dial, so I would consider only the matte-dialed 16800 to be "transitional". I picked up an early 16610 also with "sponge dial", but the benefits of the modern 3135 movement.
Watching this four years later... man, I wish I'd picked one up
What about now?
Got my 16800 just over a month ago got a beautiful matte dial
niccceeeee!
I agree. The 16800 is massively underrated. Sapphire crystal and quick set date make it much more wearable than something like a 1680. I picked up a matte dial 16800 a few weeks back for under $7k. Good luck finding another matte dial sub for that price.
Was it early matte, lume painted on? Or gloss turned matte?
@@JohnPWatches Matte dial with painted lume. It's a '83, last year for matte dials.
@@mpikers Good buy!
John P I've purchased a few watches from this dealer and sent a few customers his way so I got a "good customer" discount. Also, cash always talks. 😁
@@JohnPWatches Thanks! I wasn't really looking for one but it was a deal too good to pass up. Now, it gets most of my wrist time. It really is a great vintage daily driver.
Nice vid... you know your vintage watches for sure! Liked and subscribed.
THANKKK YOUU!!
I just bought one last week and love it
Great vid John and glad to see you making them! Sponge dial though? Yikes! How about corral dial?
Looking forward to seeing some close up shots of your dial and what you call the sponge. My gloss dial 16800 has many fine cracks - the spider web effect but also what I’d call mottling/spotting mostly around the edge of the dial. I’d wondered if the watch had had some water ingress at some point but after watching your video am thinking it’s just ageing of the dial. Open 6’s and 9’s on the date wheel add to the vintage Rolex feel. Great video btw.
The spotting is what I consider sponge. Rolex did not perfect their gloss yet around 85-86 so, some dials just began losing the gloss in patchy areas over time.
John P that’s interesting. I’d wager that lots of these sponge/spider dials were replaced by Rolex when serviced making our original dials more of a rarity. They won’t be everyone’s cup of tea though - some will just see them as defective.
Saphirre cristal, solid end links, quick set is something that makes them more desirable.
end links hollow
Are the bracelets hollow on these watches?
Totally agree on the 16800. One of my favorite Rolex Subs. Been buying this model for many years. I prefer the early matte dial version. Not that long ago you could get one for under 5k if you looked around. I recently sold a nice matte dial without box/papers for 8k so these are going up relatively fast compared to a 16610. A good 5513 is a great vintage but your right, the plastic crystals need to be babied and I wouldn’t trust an acrylic crystal in anything more than splashing around in a pool or showering. The sapphire on the 16800 is every bit as reliable as the modern Subs.
Another Sub that has all the correct attributes to accelerate in appreciation is the 116600 Seadweller 4000, 40mm Ceramic. Only made this watch less than 3 years, 2014 to mid 2016. It has the thin lugs (non Maxi case) like the older aluminum bezel Seadweller and Subs. Has the new Maxi dial with modern Chromalight blue lume, new Ceramic bezel insert, Glidelock bracelet. In many ways it is a transitional model to the current Seadweller and Deep Sea. For sure the 116600 will be a very sought after model and you can still get them at around list price.
Thanks for the info! I just found one at my jeweler that a local guy is selling for 5k. Just text her and told her I wanted it!
Great video, thank you
Dang, now I want to buy one. Would have to sell all of my watches and then some though.
i believe some of the things mentioned could also be said about the 14060
I did buy one 4 years ago €5900... It's almost doubled in value... the dial is getting a nice patina.. the metal bracelet has some wear so in order to stop this I wear it with Nato Straps
Again great video and you’re giving FED a run for his salt!
Hi John ,
fantastic video, gain much insights
Was very keen in getting a 16800 , checked with my dealer, whom I’ve dealing with and he said he will try sourcing for me
Last week , he text me and showed me he found a 168000.
Did some readings, and thought was a good buy , and the deal was closed
Though already bought the piece appreciate if you would share some in-depth details on the 168000
Do you think was a wise move for the purchase ?
Thank you
168000 is nice. Price paid?
S$9800/-
I prefer the smashed in sapphire glass look, think thats going to really take off! Just havent found the right one yet
For me the 14060 is aesthetically more pleasing minus the date, plus minus two annoying lines of text. And they seem to be cheaper than the 16800.
But no matte dial :-(
The 1680 is the one I own. I got it 1976 from my dad. The watch was a beater tool watch. 42 years later I have to be careful to keep in good conditions. The design is the best and by far better than the maxy case. I see the Submariner needs to be redesigned as they did with: James Cameron, GMTII and Datejust....
It had gone up slightly but not as much as you predicted. Specially compared to other Rolex models...
To be honest, unless you are looking at a early production 16800 with the mat dial and painted incidences, there really isn't much difference between it and a 90's tritium dial 16610. 16610 can also be had for a lower price and has many of the characteristic features such as the drill though lug holes and tritium dial up to 1997. The 16800 also had the caliber 3035 which utilizes a glued , yes glued balance spring. The 3135 in the 16610 had a laser welded balance spring. The prices on a early production mat dial is also higher than the later glossy production with the wg indices which then gets into the 1680 plastic crystal prices and if I were given a choice between the two, id go true vintage 1680 all day. One thing that many don't seem to notice is the 16800 has a shallower rehaut than the 16610.
John: Great video. I've been looking at some of these models. It appears to me that Rolex may have replaced some of these dials at a service interval. What do you think? Specifically a 1985 where the dial looks almost too nice.
Hi Roamy, certainly possible! The interesting thing with these watches is that the way the dials handled the years seem to be very inconsistent, and also not tied to specific years. For Example, I've seen spider, matte, and sponge dials all from the same year not too far apart in serials. With more examples studied, the vintage watch community will collectively shed some light on this in the coming years, but until then most of these are likely to lay tucked away in dealer vaults, show rooms, and average-joe security boxes.
Looking to get a day to date but I'm still early in my career. So, I was thinking of getting a vintage Day-Date Rolex that would increase in value.
The term has been coined it called a stardust dial John .
Damn you, John! Now, I'm searching.
Are you sponge dial worthy?
Sponge.
Very informative video. My Sub is blue face, ss/gold bracelet, date, purchased new in 1997, and believe it was 3 years old at that time. What model should I own? How can I ID it for certain?n Am just now learning about the variations, etc.
Look between the lugs for reference :)
Great Video. I bet after this ... prices will start to go up ... damn! ;-)
Great video, and an education.
Hey John, what are your thoughts on 5513 matte vs 14060m 2 liner? Also, will the 14060's change to matte eventually? Seems like the 5513s are priced way more than the 14060s unjustifiably.
Good idea. I would be surprised if the 14060 changed matte, or at least within a normal lifetime, though perhaps on their earlier examples. Honestly, it is really too early to tell on this one. If we approach it logically though, perhaps after 300 years the gloss would have turned matte. Seams reasonable right? But no way to know in the near future.
Would you change the bracelet on a 1680 /16800 for a solid end link and better clasp.
You hit the spot again jp
Thanks! I try to make videos that have not been done before.
Thank you jp for the like hehe I guess your craft is really with vintage take time to study and review more vintage in the future... hoping you be watchfinder soon 200k subscribers good luck
Thank you jp for the like hehe I guess your craft is really with vintage take time to study and review more vintage in the future... hoping you be watchfinder soon 200k subscribers good luck...
Great video!
Love the review
Your intro should be, it’s it’s me john p
You're giving me ideas ;)
Fed said you bought a GP Laureato, is it the 38 and is it as nice as it looks?
Yes, the 38mm and a very excellent watch. It really should have saved the brand, but unfortunately very few people paid attention. For those that like an extremely well made, highly finished, in house sports watch, and don't necessarily care if people recognize the brand- buy one before GP stops selling them just as they did the first time they released these 30 years ago. I suppose I am obligated to make a video review since I really am the only advocate of the brand.
That’s good to hear, congrats on the purchase man. I’d really like to see some other dial variations other than just that blue one, cause it really is a gorgeous watch.
Go strong jhon 😻♥️👌🏻
I came i saw i subbed. Dude, you are a good vintage rolex guy. I love it, pls report to clyve the wrangler as friend, maybe can go on air liveshows with him sometimes, gonna be cool with rolex topics. Ignore that fatso ac3 channels though.
Thanks! Not sure who those people are :)
I want to sell rolex watch 1960 i have 4piece of the ae watch
What will tha price???
Not sure what you mean. Please contact directly and I will help thanks!
How will I contact with you?? I am from Bangladesh..
I have four Japanese watch made in 1960. They run through blood contact..
What about the 168000?
It has newer steel than the 16800, so some of the points in this video do not apply. Nice watch though!
John P - apart from the upgraded steel the “triple zero” is just the same, right? Great vid BTW, very informative! 👍🏻
Not all that shine is gold guys, collectors will buy the 1st edition or the last one if you buy one in the middle don't expect to any significant gain.
Trolling ebay right now!
What year is this one??
86
John P Thank you for the reply. So when did the date set change. I have a 1983 and it takes me forever to change date.
why get a submariner when you don't even go swimming, let alone diving!
I swim and shower with mine 😎
I have the exact watch he's talkin about. Message me if interested.
Are you a diver?
A little bit of free diving and snorkel
👍🇸🇪
John p. Contact me please
Something that out me off with this model. The 16800 has a 3035 movement. The hairspring in the 3035 is glued on to the balance cock stud. The 3135 and newer movements are laser welded on.