Deflection Shooting #2 - Luftwaffe REVI sight
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- Опубликовано: 10 мар 2018
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Improve your deflection shooting using the Luftwaffe's REVI sight in airplanes such as the Bf 109 and Fw 190. This lesson includes:
- How to estimate range for airplanes using the REVI C 12/D
- Basic concept of a mil and how many mils are on the REVI C 12/D
- Expanding on the concept on lead by introducing how airspeed affects it
- Graphics of the REVI with Angle Off in two main airspeed scenarios
- In-game demonstrations of the above concepts
Angle Off Charts can be downloaded here:
www.dropbox.com/s/s4kl8jgkouw...
Comments and feedback are always welcome, so if this video helped you out hit the like button and let me know in the comments below. Cheers! 
Игры
This video is great! Angle-off makes aerial gunnery a lot more intuitive. Previously, I would guess a vector based off of the angle of my target and just point the middle of the crosshair at the head of this imaginary vector. However, picturing the angle-off rings on the gunsight works far better and is much quicker in a dogfight. My shots seem a lot more reliable since I watched this video a couple of weeks ago.
Quick update! Your video improved my hit ratio significantly :D!!!
HungrigerHugo89 That's awesome! Very happy to hear it :-D
Glad it helped you, i still cant hit anything haha
I watched these more than a couple of times. I was struggling with gunnery for years, this helped a lot! Thanks. Would you consider adding more footage similar to the examples at the end?
I'd have to do a lot more german flying on Berloga to get some more footage which would take some time. I'm not much of a "guncam" videos guy but there are always some to look at on the forums at least.
You deserve more views for your videos! :D
Thanks Hungriger! I don't really promote my channel very much outside of IL-2 (even though I endeavor to make my tutorials applicable across any sim), so I really rely on word of mouth from you guys to tell your friends :-)
And I shall do so! :D Btw, whats your Playername in Il2.....so I know who to be afraid of?
My name in game is SYN_Requiem. If you see me online be sure to say hi!
Stunning Tutorial (as always) really helpful! love the download charts too. Thank you!
Thanks Andy, glad you like the charts! They are there to give you a good visual picture of what the different Angle Offs look like, so hopefully you can take those and apply them to other airplanes not in the chart :-)
FINALLY it clicked for me when i saw how you calculated wingspawn on the fly, and now i can actually reliably hit stuff.
Thank you so much for these videos, i would never have stuck with the game and enjoyed it so much if i didnt have these videos to teach me the ropes.
Really good use of visuals. Thanks.
Thanks Jughead, it took some work to get the visuals done and it turned out nice so I'll be using it in the future gunnery videos
Videos like this helps a lot all the flight sim community!
Thanks Sergio, that's the idea! I make these kinds of these to help regardless of what sim you fly
EXCELLENT clear and precise and full of information. All I have to do is remember it all
Cheers David, practice will help :-) Just keep throwing yourself out there to try and be in a lot of different situations.
This blew my mind, got annoyed when I kept missing an enemy fighter, looked up this vid and I’ll get him next time now. Thank you
Thanks a lot for this tutorial. It is very well done and understandable. I have recommended it to my squad team mates.Excellent work!
Jordi Graner thanks very much :-) There are several different ways to skin this cat but I believed this is the most intuitive way to explain gunnery. I hope the rest of your squad enjoys it too!
wow, I wish my brain weren't so slow, assesing the angle-off, selecting the adequate "ring-template" (fast or slow), isolating the proper ring, AND on top of this, maneuver the plane in real-time. Congratulations on developing this amazing skill!
The deflection shooting just comes with time. These are here to help give you a headstart in learning it. By putting yourself in enough situations you no longer think about it and just place the bandit where it is supposed to go.
This was great, thank you!
Excellent video!
Wonderful, just wonderful.
Thanks Barış :-)
This helped me a lot! Thank you so much!
Excellent to hear Taraxzum! Make sure to keep practicing :-)
Love this, great vid
I finally got it thanks to your vid. Really good job! :)
Awesome! :-)
Great stuff, really enjoyed watching your video. It puts everything into perspective.
🍻Mate
Dunno how you did that beer Graham, but cheers! I hope your gunnery improves as a result :-)
Thanks a lot for this video! I've recently bought Il-2 BOS (now also BOM, BOK and Bodenplatte on sale) as my first flight simulator and I initially struggled to hit a single target without using all my ammunition, and even then it felt rather like pure chance whether the enemy came down or not. With the help of this video my aiming skills have since improved a huge deal. My latest success against enemy fighters on campaign mode with the Bf-109 G-2 are three (AI medium difficulty) Yak-1 downed in just about two minutes, the first two in just 25 seconds (both burning), and I didn't even have the additional 20mm guns on the wings that I had always used before. On top of that I also had still plenty of ammunition left. However, there were no more enemies left in the sky in that mission anyway... Without your explanation this improvement would not have been possible. So thanks a lot for your help! It is highly appreciated! I'm currently also watching your other Il-2 videos with great interest. Keep up the good work!
The only thing I realised I do partially different is that I fly with 200m convergence and often shoot between ranges of 200m to 30-20m. Especially against bombers (but also in general) I found out that extremely close shots (still with 200m convergence though) are very effective. I often release fire not before 200m due to my convergence settings and then with my higher speed try to get as close as possible to the target just before I would crash while firing the whole time, which is only a few seconds though. The results with that approach are quiet good and I am now even considering to set my convergence under 200m, but the Il-2 experts on the internet seem all to agree that a 300-400m convergence is the best setting. I wonder if maybe convergence is not so important anymore if you are real close (under 50m)? Would be interesting if you could elaborate on that. Yesterday, for example, I flew an Fw190 A-3 with additional FF guns. I initially wanted to try to shoot from a higher distance and thus set convergence to 300m (instead of my usual 200m). But then in the heat of the battle I stuck to my old method and fired only from close range, i.e. under 200m up to 30-40m. This way I managed to down 4 Il-2s in about 5 minutes and still had ammunition left. So I'm wondering a little bit about that. But I guess there is a certain point of vicinity, probably around 50m or closer, where you can hit the target with every convergence if aimed correctly like shown in your excellent video?
Hey Kstar, great to know you've improved! Thanks for sharing your story as it's awesome to hear when people are helped because gunnery is something a lot of people can struggle with. In Il-2 when you adjust convergence you're adjusting vertical and horizontal at the same time. This convergence is a much more important factor for wing mounted guns than nose mounted guns generally speaking. This is because in wing mounted guns the bullet paths cross over where you set the convergence distance (horizontal), but in guns mounted on the nose the convergence is more important to consider in the vertical component because those guns are installed without much difference horizontally so they don't cross over the same way wing mounted guns do.
I don't think the minimum distance to shoot at is as important as the maximum distance...you should avoid shooting out further than your convergence setting generally speaking, especially if you're using wing mounted guns.
@@RequiemsACTL
Thank you for your answer and explanation. That makes absolute sense to me and corresponds with my experience so far. I have to tell on this behalf that I until now flew over 95 % of my missions with a Bf-109 F4/G2. Since the Bf-109 is nose gunned that very likely explains why I didnt feel that much of a difference when firing from shorter distance than my 200m convergence setting. It will be interesting to see how much the difference will be when I start a career with a Spitfire for example. From my experience so far it is exactly like you describe it. Firing from higher distance than convergence results in zero damage/hits. Firing under convergence still results in (fatal) hits although it might not be optimal. Much more important than the exact distance (as long as not too far away) however is to aim exactly like you describe it in this super-helpful video! I watched it over and over again to learn the angles. It needs high concentration to adapt this "in action" but it's absolutely worth it because the results are just amazing. So thank you very much for the effort you put in these videos!
Thanks, a very useful insight. Looking forward for soviet gunsights part)
Many Many thanks for this Video. Great job.Thank you
No worries Ivan, you're very welcome! Let me know how your shooting improves! :-)
awesome explanation!
Thanks Nazgul!
wow that's some lethal accurency !
Cheers Carglouss, hopefully this video helps you recognise Angle Off and estimating airspeed so you can increase your own accuracy! After a while you almost don't think about it and instead get into a mode of what my friend calls TLAR (That Looks About Right) when you fire. It just takes consistent practice.
Holy shit, this explains so much! My gunnery needs some work, so hopefully this will help.
I hope so Spencer Poe, let me know how it works out for you!
So usefull! Thank you!
Holy cow. Thank you
I aim to please! I hope it helps your accuracy like it has for many others :-D
Finally! Thanks a lot! :)
You got it Spartan! May your enemies fall in flaming pieces from now on :-P
Man, you scare the shit out of me. I hope I don't see you at my six ;)
Oh boy. I am starting to get some results. You have created a monster! lol
Exceptional tutorial!
Cheers Astrix, glad this one is out of the way now :-)
Yeah looks like a lot of work would have when into it. Thanks!
I watched this earlier today and tried to put it to use on Berloga. For the first time ever, I completely shot off a bogey’s wing!
Awesome, glad to be of help and keep it up!
i've always wondered if the marks on the sight were truly usable, now i know!
Every sight has it's design for a reason, so I'm trying to do videos covering each one :-) The next one that will be released soon is on the N-3A sight which you see in the P-39 and P-40
Sorry, but I gotta write something again. It's one of the best tutorial videos ever!!!!!!
My pleasure Spartan :-) I hope your accuracy has improved!
Could you please make one about firing rockets? I suck at that :(
whats wonderful is how well alot of this translates into other games like warthunder
That's the whole idea of what I do here :-)
Excellent tutorial! The gunnery concepts you teach are very helpful frameworks and provide "rhyme and reason" to our gut instincts when it comes to deflection. I've never thought about taking into account the target's airspeed, so this video was quite enlightening.
Would you be able to comment on how "load" impacts the amount of deflection required? for example, if I am approaching an enemy at 20 degrees angle off with perfect trim and little elevator input, how would deflection required on this shot compare to a scenario in which I am approaching the same enemy at 20 degrees angle off, but requiring considerable elevator input (more load)? I always seem to lead more intuitively in the latter scenario, as my bullets seem to "drop" much more quickly than in an unloaded shot. Curious if you know of a scientific way to think about this.
Thanks Sharkbait. I'm a fan of the technique my friend calls TLAR or "That Looks About Right" when it comes to this stuff. Accounting for extra lead due to more G-load is a factor but it's not as important as Angle Off and Target Velocity which is why I focus on those. Knowing AO and TV gets you in right ballpark to begin shooting and other adjustments you make afterwards are minor in comparision. Your rounds suffer due to gravity (about 6-7 ft drop based on their time of flight by shooting at 300m/1000ft) and adding G-load adds extra calculations on top that require adjustments you can't make with perfect accuracy, so just add a little more of that good old Kentucky Windage so to speak... By the time you can estimate Angle Off and Target Velocity accurately then any of these extra small adjustments will be made naturally by you.
That's why lead computing sights are so great. A lot of the guesswork is taken out on our part, so while the effects on the bullets due to acclerations such as gravity and G-load can be quantified it's beyond the scope of what you need with these fixed/reflector sights.
If you want to see an example of the variables a lead computing sight can go through, look here for an example with the F-4E:
www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/786464.pdf
Cheers
As a german, this tutorial is really essential for me, since I love to use the BF 109. Keep the good work going. I really like your lessons!! Cheerz!
Thanks Jonas, the Luftwaffe airplanes are pretty popular and the REVI is a big common component between them so I'm glad you're finding all this useful!
Thank you for all your videos, its been great watching them, learning them and applying them in il-2! I have a question about the N-9 sight on the p51, since it is 101 mils does that mean the info in this video would apply to the n-9 sight too?
Well the problem is that the Bf 109 measurements are in km/hr and the P-51 is in mph, so that will change the size of the Angle Off rings even though the mil size is close to the same in each sight. The P-51 needs it's own ring set for the N-9 sight.
In the first example with the british sight, it is easy to remember:
150 mph is half of 300 mph, and the circle for 10 is halved to 5 degrees, essentialy, when slow, double the degrees angle off.
But with the Luftwaffe sight, its different sized circles with different angle offs, which is kinda confusing to remember. Cant we just overlay them the same way?
More modern aircraft have a gun funnel sight. Do u know if theres considerations related to angle off and speed with gun funnel too?
I love you
Haha I'm assuming that means it helped! May your aiming continue to be right 😁
I didnt understood, the angles 10, 20, 30, 45 and 90 are in which range?
Hey thank you very much for this tutorial. I let you know if I can raise my kill stats ;) best regards!
Sweet, hope it's been working out for you!
REVI sights !!!
Finally right? I know there are a few people who really wanted this REVI sight video after I made the RAF one, so enjoy!
Fucking insane accuracy!
Just a lot of practice. By using these angle off rings they will help "get your eye in" much faster, but once you are accustomed to them you will start making shots without actually thinking about them anymore.
I usually lean forward to make the crosshairs a bit smaller in the sight, and raise my head so the crosshair is almost to the top of the glass, i.e. looking down the nose of the plane so i don't have to have the bandit hidden behind my nose when i fire.
I noticed you don't do this at all. Curious if you think this gives any advantages?
I always prefer to try and situate my normal head position according to where it would be in the cockpit. The plane is going to drop under the nose anyway most of the time in a high G deflection shot, so I'd rather just keep my head in position to maintain a constant sight picture in general.
+RequiemBoS *The reticle for the **_Reflektorviſier C12/D_** would be a good standby reticle* for the head-up displays of today's tactical jets, properly scaled. With a low-observable platform such as the VVS/Sukhoi-57 Forsirovannij or the USAF/Lockheed Martin F-22 Charlie, springing an attack from six o' clock on enemy interceptors undetected by their SAM network until fight's on is doable, provided your own radar's silent and ye know the required lead at trigger down.
B. C. Schmerker, their standby reticles are more sophisticated and advanced, for example using auto-calculated vortex for set wingspan and G-ratio of attacker maneuvre.
do you use rudder at all for minor horizontal corrections to get on point of aim?
Against airborne targets it's always best to shoot while coordinated if you can otherwise the rounds won't necessarily go where you think based on the sight picture.
Wiil be such video for pbp-1(rusian sight)?
Yes I'll be making one for the Russian sight too
could you make a video to show us how to use the deflection shot with the USAF Sight?
I do plan on making one for the US sight Itachi Alan and it will be the next video in the deflection shooting guides. I've just been working on some BFM videos recently. I have included the US Sight's Angle Off rings in the deflection shooting document I have available to download.
Thanks for the video！I learnt a lot from you channel ！ But when I flying an K-4 with It's mk108 ，I thought things is just getting a little different with those different musle velocity、different ballistic about the mk108
Yeah the ballistics on those bigger cannons is unique so it requires a bit more deflection
@@RequiemsACTL Thank you 😉！ I got to get more practice on that canno
Does this take vertical targeting into account? Or are these guidelines for when vertical targeting of off?
Hey J.M. I created these rings as a guideline (they will change slightly in different ways due to different factors) so I don't think it would matter that much either way with vertical convergence. I haven't flown Cliffs of Dover in a while though.
My problem appears to me to be: It appears to me that the shots are falling far short of the target. This happens no matter at what distance I have set my convergence. Which is why I asked you to do a video on setting up your guns. Not all forward firing guns on planes (I have discovered in IL2), are not affected by what you set your convergence at. It would appear for these planes the default setting for guns is 125/95. So if you set your guns at 300m for instance, in reality they will only converge at 125, with a 95 degree arc. Therefore, your shots are all going to fall far short of the target, which is what I have witnessed myself on several occasions. This seems to be more a more prevalent issue in Russian planes.
I've never really had a problem with it Michael. I would need to see a track of you shooting to see it for myself and understand the issue more clearly. Feel free to send me a track via PM on the forums.
Might be a dumb question, but at what distance should I open fire using those angles? Lets say a high speed scenario and the bandit is at 10 degree angle. Distance between us is 200 meters. Should I come closer or start shooting right away?
The distance does not matter. If you have him at the correct position for the angle off / airspeed the amount of lead will be the same whether he is 200m or 600m or 1000m. It's all related to trigonometry. If he is further away that increases the time he needs to fly across your gunsight for the amount of lead for the angle off. So this means the bullet has more time to fly downrange and reach him as he flies along. If he's close..he will fly through your gunsight faster and there is less time for bullet travel so regardless of the distance if you have the correct angle off the bullet will have the right amount of time to reach the target. Just about the only thing you can consider at the longer ranges is bullet drop due to gravity.
Slightly related:
Do you happen to know the details on the iron sights for luftwaffe tailguns such as the MG-15 (single ring sight) and the MG-81 / MG-81z (dual ring sight)?
I imagine the rings+cross on the sights must serve a purpose but have been unable to find any documentation.
No I don't know exactly what the measurements are on those sights
@@RequiemsACTL Cheers, if I find the info I will append it here for completeness.
Will you make a video for japanese sight ?
If I can find documentation on the sight measurements I can make a video for any reflector sight. Once we see Japanese aircraft in IL-2 series I'll cover them for sure.
Hello, tell me, how did you set up the game so that the sound of shots is heard very well, louder than the sound of the engine?
It was recorded in an older version before the sound volume was updated
Many thanks for a lesson! What convergence here?
300-350m
@@RequiemsACTL thanks
Hello Requiem, always thank you for your great videos. I would like to ask you if I could make Korean subtitles of this video. :)
Unfortunately my only language is English, but anyone who can do translations can submit subtitles for any of my videos to get added
@@RequiemsACTL Yeah, thank you! :D
@@RequiemsACTL Subtitles submitted. Could you check it please.
@Dohun approved! Great job, thank you! :-)
@@RequiemsACTL Thank you, sir ! :D
Maybe a not important info, but what is your gun convergence in this video? I try to set mine at 370m, it's too far for fighters?
I use 300m convergence when flying Luftwaffe
@@RequiemsACTL i will try
@@RequiemsACTL And what your convergence when you play Russian? (I set 250m) :)
@@RequiemsACTL doesn't 400 mean you have to lead less, and isn't it more useful to have longer range when firing nose guns in 109s?
@@glorbusborbus480 Personal preference, but yeah you'll lead slightly less the more convergence you use due to the nose mounted guns
hardest for me is predeicting their speed.
Mein Gott! Its real!
Surprise!
You neglected to mention your convergence setting on this one unlike the previous video
My convergence doesn't change much. German fighters I'll use about 350m
Love the video, but your callouts are a little off sometimes. At 8:49 you called an I-16 and the game was calling it an La-5
Very good video. We are making tutorials in Finnish. How to fly, take off, land etc. I was going to make same kind of tutorial in Finnish but
Now it feels like I copied yours if I do that. Do you mind if that happens?
And one question. What zeroing did you use in sim?
Hi Korppi, if you like, it may be easier for you to submit Finnish subtitles for this video rather than make one from scratch. I'm sure your video would be different as I show things using the Angle Off gunsight markings in the video I created by doing the math myself. As long as you're not just directly copying my video with Finnish over it I don't see a problem with you making your own.
I'll use between 250-300m
i think this is sorta helping but it’s still pretty hard to shoot airplanes 😵💫
It just takes practice, with time your accuracy improves and shooting things becomes more natural the more you see angle off situations
It just takes practice, with time your accuracy improves and shooting things becomes more natural the more you see angle off situations
Imposible.
I guarantee you it works ;-)