"failing, that should be a good thing" - 100% nailed it. Understanding that is critical and we are not taught that (most of us in the US at least) growing up in our educational system and culture.
We do it to satisfy our daily need for some fun in life. Learning and "the light bulb event" are so happy. I usually am alone and playing some musical toy by myself. But frequently I really dig my musical discoveries and feel like I am touching on the same vibration that Bach felt. Thanks Jon for all that you do.
I hope so very much you are reaching the original poster with this great motivational talk for aspiring musicians. We are probably all facing similar challenges in creating music. My guess is that the typical musicians are often solitary people, as I am. The loneliness is just a result of our own personality. Which is contradictory as music is something to share amongst many people.
Seen these type of post quite often, artists suffer often, from recognition,financially and many other things, always has been as the craft of art is still not being recognized. You invest time and money into something and when they ask $$ for it people tend to ignore the work. It ain't easy, some cope better some just give up. Good to have at least some form of recognition,friends or family or a community. Same here. You can do hundreds of videos and get almost no views, can be frustrating. I still have fun doing this BUT glad I got a job and don't rely on my art. Those who do need support
I feel a lot while listening to your solid advise. Perhaps I will write it down some day, but for now thanks for your way of dealing with this guy's issues.
The big problem is "RUclips Producers". They've created this idea that you have to sit and make 5 songs per day, every day. They call it the producer grind or whatever. But that's only so they can make videos every day and try to build their channel. Real musicians don't make 5 songs a day. Heck, if you look at the best producers of all time, they may make 5 true hit songs in their ENTIRE LIFETIME! Sure, they have credits on other tracks, but they stole those from up-and-coming producers or songwriters who gave them the hook then they just finish it up and give it to an artist. RUclips has made people have a false sense of how music is made. I just make music for fun, but too many people think music is supposed to be this "grind". That's just an image from guys who make videos. Ever notice how all the guys talking about the grind make videos every day. That's because they make more money off their videos and sample packs than any music they make
Definitely used to be in a similar spot, not exactly wanting to quit but having a low self worth around my abilities to create music. What really helped me reduce these feelings was sharing it more, be it irl or smaller online spaces, and seeing that all the things i critizised about the pieces a lot of people just don't see or care about. Beyond that, there are some songs that when I hear them, somehow really inspire me to want to make music. So I have a separate playlist for just those and listen to it whenever serious doubts arise.
I've been there what feels like several times. I always put music aside and go live / shift my priorities when that happens. Usually that's exactly what I need, and sometimes it can be over a year before I want to return. I fully get it, now more than ever when it seems futile.
So ... story time (and potential interview fodder =] ) So I went through my own hiatus period where I had no motivation to make music intended for distribution and for an audience. This happened from about 2011 to 2018. With very few exceptions - one of them being my brother's wedding where I composed and performed a song as I was his best man - I was radio silent. (This didn't stop me from making music entirely ... and I'll get to that in a bit.) What prompted it was going through a depression period. This was due to bad economics/finances and bad social experiences and this in turn had an impact on my music-making drive. It was also at the time when I sensed that music was changing and not necessarily for the better. This was when Big Music finally got something of a grip on what it wanted to do and "figured out the formula" after going through the chaos that was the 2000s with digital music being the thing. I basically sensed that Big Music was going to be stagnant. But I also did feel alone in my pursuits and was not getting anywhere with it. Granted I could have hustled better or been more persistent. At the same time, I never made it easy by not following a formula or having something that could be immediately catchy or what have you. Finally, I was encountering music that seem to do a much better job at articulating my own inner state than I ever could. I concluded at the time: "What's the point" and I stopped. The final nail in the coffin, as it were, was getting more inspired to go into filmmaking and perhaps this would be the outlet for me. Fast-forward to about 2017 and now I was disillusioned with filmmaking. I sensed that filmmaking was going to get even worse and I could make no headway there. I only did one short film to my name. And in spite of networking, I could not get anything off the ground. I kept coming up with ideas but could find no collaborators to carry me through. At the same time, I was listening to some music that was starting to help me rediscover what it was that I liked about music in the first place. A lot of it came from various underground electronic music scenes directly related to or adjacent to vaporwave. I could hear similar influences that I had. I also admire both the DIY and DGAF attitude where these artists could make anything they wanted, regardless of the audience pull. Little by little, I became convinced that I could make music like that. After all, I still had the tools and the know-how. But more than that, I knew I could fit in just by being myself. I didn't have to do anything differently than how I did it before. So in 2018, I came back under another name and my debut album called Reincarnated Resurrection because that was exactly what it was. Even during that hiatus period, I was sporadically making music in the form of what I call "sketches". I liken them to having a sketchbook where you can just draw something spur of the moment or use it as a way to work out ideas for future or larger works. These sketches came about whenever I felt like it or whenever I was noodling around with something and it caught my ear. Because of this, I was able to make my new debut album easily because I had material waiting in the wings. I say this because I hope for the OP that music-making continues in some form. I'm divulging all of this because I totally get it. Burnout does happen. Sometimes you reach a point where it's too much and you just say "F this; I'm out". Sometimes this is just temporary: you go through a week or two and then come back more motivated than ever. Other times, it may take years (and sadly, it may never come back). So my own suggestions include but not limited to: - Don't force yourself to make music if you don't want to - At the same time, I would recommend having a small habit of recording *something*. It doesn't have to be a full and complete production. Just a minute or two playing something or some kind of sequence set up. Call it a sketchbook and do it either as often as you can or with a regular routine (once a week, once a month, etc.). - Try not to think too much about what other people think when they listen to your music. Just ask yourself: "do I want to listen to this?". If you do, great. If not, either work on it or shelve it. - I would not recommend going for the 'big one" - billions of listens, millions of fans - unless you are prepared to sell your own soul. - If part of your burnout is due to feeling stagnant in the creative process, do something to "shake it up a bit". For example, if you find yourself going to the same instruments or the same sounds all the time, why not try a different instrument or sound? Do you always start with the rhythm? Maybe start with a melody instead. - Relatedly, you can also find something to expand your knowledge or awareness. Find a genre you don't listen to or learn about some aspect of music you haven't learned before. - Don't try to compare yourself to others, especially your heroes and the artists you admire. Yeah, we all make what we like and are influenced by. But in the end, we can only sound like ourselves. Embrace it and keep building on it. - That said, maybe another challenge is to try "sounding like someone". The neat thing is that in trying to do it, you end up sounding like something else entirely. It can be surprising in a good way. - Find things outside of music to do. It can be as simple as taking a nice walk outside and preferably where there's nature. Often times, that outside stimuli can be the fuel needed to keep that creative momentum going or to get the spark back. At any rate, I know that was a lot to divulge. At the same time, this should demonstrate that this is indeed quite common amongst creatives (par for the course even =\ ). Furthermore, this should mean that not only is it common, but it can also be solved in a number of ways. Just remember: you make your future like you make your music.
Hi Jon, thanks for this video.I understand how the spark is lost. I worked for 15 years as as live FOH / monitor mix engineer. I cannot see live music anymore (FOH and especially monitor engineers are basically trained to not only make the band sound good, but also to listen to problems before they become apparent). Having said that, audio is in my blood, and am getting back into writing music again (also used to play in bands). Thanks for giving me a different viewpoint!
I also was in this guys' position. I was working in a studio and I heard William Orbit's Adagio for Strings - and I quit there and then! I sold ALL my equipment and even stopped listening to music altogether. For nearly 20 years. Anyway, now I'm back making less than average tunes again. lol.
No tune is less than average. They are all art in their own right and need not be compared to anything else. Something without rules cannot be right or wrong.
I think all of us on this music journey can probably relate to this post. I completely agree with Jon's comments. I would add that If u wanted to be a singer, when you're singing, you ARE a singer. And feeling and sharing that joy of singing IS the reward and conformation u may be seeking. Not getting paid to do it does'nt mean that your not a singer. It simply means that your in the same boat as the rest of us :) The music industry is a bitch and even the ones who have made it, will be the first to tell you that. It's not easy but life is not easy and it's ever changing. Also, the artists your comparing yourself to, are often connected to a time in the industry that no longer exists. i.e major music labels. It's not about impressing other people and having gate keepers let you in... It's about creating your OWN pathway that does'nt exist until you walk it. Good luck on your journey my friend.
I stopped wanting to be a musician such a long time ago. I just make stuff I like now. I don't do it much any longer but occasionally I will work on something. I post it and move on. I will never make money from it and that is fine. It's the process that matters anyway for me at least.
I did the reasonable thing: I decided to NOT make music my source of income. I went to study math/computer science and started working as a software engineer after that. Hence I'm not bothered by the music industry, I do whatever I want, whenever I want, no deadlines, no labels to deal with. Isolation? Is there anything else in life? I've been alone since my 17 (I'm over 50 now). Would I compare myself to any of the great musicians out there? Hell no! Would I compare myself now to myself 2-3 years ago? Of course. So now I'm completely free when it comes to music creation: If I create garbage that's OK. If I create something listenable then hey that's cool, good for me. So, I'd advise to take music only as a hobby, unless you really don't want to do anything else. 🤔🤷♂😊
Thank you for this man, this is insane, lol. I never thought I would reach so many people.
You're very welcome dude! Hope you keep on keeping on my man 🤙🤙
Comparison is the thief of joy
"failing, that should be a good thing" - 100% nailed it. Understanding that is critical and we are not taught that (most of us in the US at least) growing up in our educational system and culture.
"all alone together" is a great mindset to have ; we share the love for something way bigger than any of us
We do it to satisfy our daily need for some fun in life. Learning and "the light bulb event" are so happy. I usually am alone and playing some musical toy by myself. But frequently I really dig my musical discoveries and feel like I am touching on the same vibration that Bach felt.
Thanks Jon for all that you do.
Amazing video, Jon! Went back to FL, huh? 😄
I hope so very much you are reaching the original poster with this great motivational talk for aspiring musicians. We are probably all facing similar challenges in creating music. My guess is that the typical musicians are often solitary people, as I am. The loneliness is just a result of our own personality. Which is contradictory as music is something to share amongst many people.
Seen these type of post quite often, artists suffer often, from recognition,financially and many other things, always has been as the craft of art is still not being recognized. You invest time and money into something and when they ask $$ for it people tend to ignore the work. It ain't easy, some cope better some just give up. Good to have at least some form of recognition,friends or family or a community. Same here. You can do hundreds of videos and get almost no views, can be frustrating. I still have fun doing this BUT glad I got a job and don't rely on my art. Those who do need support
I feel a lot while listening to your solid advise. Perhaps I will write it down some day, but for now thanks for your way of dealing with this guy's issues.
The big problem is "RUclips Producers". They've created this idea that you have to sit and make 5 songs per day, every day. They call it the producer grind or whatever. But that's only so they can make videos every day and try to build their channel. Real musicians don't make 5 songs a day. Heck, if you look at the best producers of all time, they may make 5 true hit songs in their ENTIRE LIFETIME! Sure, they have credits on other tracks, but they stole those from up-and-coming producers or songwriters who gave them the hook then they just finish it up and give it to an artist. RUclips has made people have a false sense of how music is made.
I just make music for fun, but too many people think music is supposed to be this "grind". That's just an image from guys who make videos. Ever notice how all the guys talking about the grind make videos every day. That's because they make more money off their videos and sample packs than any music they make
Definitely used to be in a similar spot, not exactly wanting to quit but having a low self worth around my abilities to create music.
What really helped me reduce these feelings was sharing it more, be it irl or smaller online spaces, and seeing that all the things i critizised about the pieces a lot of people just don't see or care about.
Beyond that, there are some songs that when I hear them, somehow really inspire me to want to make music. So I have a separate playlist for just those and listen to it whenever serious doubts arise.
I've been there what feels like several times. I always put music aside and go live / shift my priorities when that happens.
Usually that's exactly what I need, and sometimes it can be over a year before I want to return. I fully get it, now more than ever when it seems futile.
So ... story time (and potential interview fodder =] )
So I went through my own hiatus period where I had no motivation to make music intended for distribution and for an audience. This happened from about 2011 to 2018. With very few exceptions - one of them being my brother's wedding where I composed and performed a song as I was his best man - I was radio silent. (This didn't stop me from making music entirely ... and I'll get to that in a bit.)
What prompted it was going through a depression period. This was due to bad economics/finances and bad social experiences and this in turn had an impact on my music-making drive. It was also at the time when I sensed that music was changing and not necessarily for the better. This was when Big Music finally got something of a grip on what it wanted to do and "figured out the formula" after going through the chaos that was the 2000s with digital music being the thing. I basically sensed that Big Music was going to be stagnant. But I also did feel alone in my pursuits and was not getting anywhere with it. Granted I could have hustled better or been more persistent. At the same time, I never made it easy by not following a formula or having something that could be immediately catchy or what have you. Finally, I was encountering music that seem to do a much better job at articulating my own inner state than I ever could. I concluded at the time: "What's the point" and I stopped. The final nail in the coffin, as it were, was getting more inspired to go into filmmaking and perhaps this would be the outlet for me.
Fast-forward to about 2017 and now I was disillusioned with filmmaking. I sensed that filmmaking was going to get even worse and I could make no headway there. I only did one short film to my name. And in spite of networking, I could not get anything off the ground. I kept coming up with ideas but could find no collaborators to carry me through. At the same time, I was listening to some music that was starting to help me rediscover what it was that I liked about music in the first place. A lot of it came from various underground electronic music scenes directly related to or adjacent to vaporwave. I could hear similar influences that I had. I also admire both the DIY and DGAF attitude where these artists could make anything they wanted, regardless of the audience pull. Little by little, I became convinced that I could make music like that. After all, I still had the tools and the know-how. But more than that, I knew I could fit in just by being myself. I didn't have to do anything differently than how I did it before. So in 2018, I came back under another name and my debut album called Reincarnated Resurrection because that was exactly what it was.
Even during that hiatus period, I was sporadically making music in the form of what I call "sketches". I liken them to having a sketchbook where you can just draw something spur of the moment or use it as a way to work out ideas for future or larger works. These sketches came about whenever I felt like it or whenever I was noodling around with something and it caught my ear. Because of this, I was able to make my new debut album easily because I had material waiting in the wings. I say this because I hope for the OP that music-making continues in some form.
I'm divulging all of this because I totally get it. Burnout does happen. Sometimes you reach a point where it's too much and you just say "F this; I'm out". Sometimes this is just temporary: you go through a week or two and then come back more motivated than ever. Other times, it may take years (and sadly, it may never come back). So my own suggestions include but not limited to:
- Don't force yourself to make music if you don't want to
- At the same time, I would recommend having a small habit of recording *something*. It doesn't have to be a full and complete production. Just a minute or two playing something or some kind of sequence set up. Call it a sketchbook and do it either as often as you can or with a regular routine (once a week, once a month, etc.).
- Try not to think too much about what other people think when they listen to your music. Just ask yourself: "do I want to listen to this?". If you do, great. If not, either work on it or shelve it.
- I would not recommend going for the 'big one" - billions of listens, millions of fans - unless you are prepared to sell your own soul.
- If part of your burnout is due to feeling stagnant in the creative process, do something to "shake it up a bit". For example, if you find yourself going to the same instruments or the same sounds all the time, why not try a different instrument or sound? Do you always start with the rhythm? Maybe start with a melody instead.
- Relatedly, you can also find something to expand your knowledge or awareness. Find a genre you don't listen to or learn about some aspect of music you haven't learned before.
- Don't try to compare yourself to others, especially your heroes and the artists you admire. Yeah, we all make what we like and are influenced by. But in the end, we can only sound like ourselves. Embrace it and keep building on it.
- That said, maybe another challenge is to try "sounding like someone". The neat thing is that in trying to do it, you end up sounding like something else entirely. It can be surprising in a good way.
- Find things outside of music to do. It can be as simple as taking a nice walk outside and preferably where there's nature. Often times, that outside stimuli can be the fuel needed to keep that creative momentum going or to get the spark back.
At any rate, I know that was a lot to divulge. At the same time, this should demonstrate that this is indeed quite common amongst creatives (par for the course even =\ ). Furthermore, this should mean that not only is it common, but it can also be solved in a number of ways.
Just remember: you make your future like you make your music.
Thanks for sharing that Jon.
Hi Jon, thanks for this video.I understand how the spark is lost. I worked for 15 years as as live FOH / monitor mix engineer. I cannot see live music anymore (FOH and especially monitor engineers are basically trained to not only make the band sound good, but also to listen to problems before they become apparent). Having said that, audio is in my blood, and am getting back into writing music again (also used to play in bands).
Thanks for giving me a different viewpoint!
I also was in this guys' position. I was working in a studio and I heard William Orbit's Adagio for Strings - and I quit there and then! I sold ALL my equipment and even stopped listening to music altogether. For nearly 20 years. Anyway, now I'm back making less than average tunes again. lol.
No tune is less than average. They are all art in their own right and need not be compared to anything else. Something without rules cannot be right or wrong.
Such a good and timely video! Great advice here. You are an inspiration to us all. Keep it up bro!
I think all of us on this music journey can probably relate to this post. I completely agree with Jon's comments. I would add that If u wanted to be a singer, when you're singing, you ARE a singer.
And feeling and sharing that joy of singing IS the reward and conformation u may be seeking. Not getting paid to do it does'nt mean that your not a singer. It simply means that your in the same boat as the rest of us :)
The music industry is a bitch and even the ones who have made it, will be the first to tell you that. It's not easy but life is not easy and it's ever changing. Also, the artists your comparing yourself to, are often connected to a time in the industry that no longer exists. i.e major music labels. It's not about impressing other people and having gate keepers let you in... It's about creating your OWN pathway that does'nt exist until you walk it. Good luck on your journey my friend.
Inspirational and motivational
I stopped wanting to be a musician such a long time ago. I just make stuff I like now. I don't do it much any longer but occasionally I will work on something. I post it and move on. I will never make money from it and that is fine. It's the process that matters anyway for me at least.
I think this will resonate with a lot of people.
Well said Jon.
I did the reasonable thing: I decided to NOT make music my source of income.
I went to study math/computer science and started working as a software engineer after that.
Hence I'm not bothered by the music industry, I do whatever I want, whenever I want, no deadlines, no labels to deal with.
Isolation? Is there anything else in life? I've been alone since my 17 (I'm over 50 now).
Would I compare myself to any of the great musicians out there? Hell no!
Would I compare myself now to myself 2-3 years ago? Of course.
So now I'm completely free when it comes to music creation: If I create garbage that's OK. If I create something listenable then hey that's cool, good for me.
So, I'd advise to take music only as a hobby, unless you really don't want to do anything else. 🤔🤷♂😊
I said the same thing in 2015, now I'm back doing music
The author of that message has reached the trench of the Dunning-Kruger curve I guess.
Conflating creative and business decisions almost never works
How does the saying go? “It takes 15yrs to become an overnight success” 😏