As a Mexican, I love your mention of the fight in Mexico because it was a big deal! You mentioned that teens are usually the main focus of goth, emo, and punk aesthetics, and that was true over there, the main difference is that in Mexico most schools wear uniforms with makeup, painted or long hair, and even painted nails sending you to detention. The only thing you could do was a jacket or hoodie, so you had to hide your subculture. However, with enough signifiers, you could be identified as one, creating a tight community for those who recognized your Nine Inch Nails or My Chemical Romance hoodie that was technically appropriate for school. It was after school (or outside of school grounds where teachers usually don't care what happens) or on weekends that your subculture would shine, and when these groups would physically fight each other. It's very surreal to remember it considering that there was a fight between emos and punk/goths because emos got tired of the hatred, the police were involved and it was only stopped by the Hare Krishnas.
As a art history student who is currently studying gothic in the contemporary arts, this is feeding my soul in the best way possible and also perfect to study for my mid-terms😊
According to Angela Benedict, who's a goth RUclipsr who has been active in the scene since 1995 at 15 years old, interns from Anna Sui's would show up to goth nights in New York to sketch the attendees.
@@RogueVideoRaven bad, basically fashion brand ripping off ideas for outfits and clothing from creative but unknown individuals and not giving them any credit
I honestly think goth looks (any and all sub-genres included) are just so cool even if they're more mainstream nowadays they're still super cool and represent being yourself no matter. i hope one day when i can afford it i can take these styles into my own personal style
Hello I consider myself a goth and in all honesty it is literally cheap. Goth is a diy type of subculture also going to thrift stores. A lot of goths I know do this. It’s just now and days it’s expensive because of how mainstream it is and consumeristic. These goes against goth belief. Goth is an offshoot of punk. The goths of the 70s and 80s had to make their clothes or thrift because there was no stores that carry that type of clothing. In the end of the day goth is a music and political subculture not fashion, dress however you like. There’s no rule to dress goth.
@@bigbofatofu1713 omg I was about to say the exact same thing! I am also goth and I have to explain to so many baby bats that trad goth and punk started as DIY! And it is such an important part that I feel is getting lost. (Not blaming people for not understanding. You look at Killstar and you think all goths are rich with those price tags.). I feel like ModernGurlz needed to mention that. Thrift stores are subcultures bread and butter.
thank you for everyone giving advice i think when i go to uni i'm gonna truly experiment with my style (my dad quite traditional so i know he'd probably not vibe with it) i'm gonna try see what shops are near the places i'm picking for uni, i'll try out diy but also see if any shops nearby have anything that could make it easier
I’m really proud of this RUclips channel for branching out into different genres, especially considering how much criticism goth culture has faced since the '90s and early 2000s. Even today, some past cheerleaders and clean girl aesthetic fans still look down on goth girls and guys. I hope that changes soon. It's fantastic to see people getting to know one another's subcultures. You and a goth friend may not share the same interests, but that doesn’t mean you can’t be friends or relate to each other. It's essential to build friendships outside of our aesthetic groups because everyone needs community and support, regardless of whether you wear all black or pastel colors. If your goth friend gifts you a book, read it. If your preppy friend gives you a Stanley cup, definitely use it! Again, I’m really proud of this channel for highlighting goths in pop culture and fostering a sense of connection among diverse communities.
I think its changing slowly I've been alt since 16 and I've noticed people are usually kinda or complement you more than insult. Biggest issue now alt people are over sexualized.
@@toxiczombiewolf5692 They have been fetishized if you saw how so many people viewed Serena from MTV Downtown, it's just that nowadays Big Tiddy Goth Girl became the mainstream tagline. And even with current alternative subcultures like Egirls and Gen Z versions of goth, you got the normie conservatives terrified of them like how they did with 90s goths and you got the gatekeeping goths and emos saying they're not goth/emo/alternative enough.
Just a quick suggestion, I would appreciate if u could add small references of the media showcased in ur video (film titles, artist name, etc.) on a corner of the screen. Loved ur research xx
@afonsoalmeida4652 @keekzsz Did you try turning on [CC] closed captioning in the corner of the screen? That's what I do. Hope that helps. 🤍🕸️ fellow goth
Hey! I'm active in the goth scene, and the current goth community is fascinating since the bulk of people in it are Gen X, nearing or over 50 (but I'm in my early 30s). Most of them were angsty outcast teenagers in the 80s and 90s, and it actually wasn't a phase for them. Some still dress up, with corsets and tophats and platform shoes, but a lot just do a more comfortable look of band tee+jeans and combat boots. At least in NYC, it's a scene that spans generations... but the median age at most goth nights is probably around 47. Gen-z goths with dramatic TikTok-ready makeup and Killstar clothes are welcomed in... as long as they care about the music, which a lot of them do! And there are also goth parents with goth kids, and it's super cute (excited goth moms going all out with the hairspray while bringing their families to see The Cure seriously melted my heart). But yeah, it's pretty mainstream, to say the least. Sort of like how a lot of early metal bands have gone from being seen as subversive to being considered "dad rock." For every college kid with a stretched septum ring and white facepaint, you'll find 3 burnt-out "cool aunt" types with back pain and a drawer full of tshirts older than those college kids. IMO, Abby from NCIS really changed things a lot. Finally, in the media, goths could be actual adults with real-ass jobs, not just moody teens. Right around the time that a lot of those original goths would be really starting their careers.
I got beef with fast fashion/the popularisation of moments like Goth, I’ve been in the subculture for over 15 years and I would’ve loved these popular brands as a kid it does take away from some of the meaning, I do wish there was more individuality in today’s goth scene
My middle school life was dressing like Lizzie Mcguire and very preppy while hanging out with goth kids because we had similar interests in shows, movies, ect. I just preferred wearing cute and pink clothes.
That’s awesome. A lot of goths would consider you goth if you enjoy their music, literature, shows/movies, and general way of being even if you don’t dress “goth”. And the fact that you had relationships within the goth community.
YEP! As a babybat Afrogoth woman, despite that sounding weird since I'm 30 and have been interested in goth characters and themes since childhood; for the first time in my life, I feel right since I embraced my goth identity, other than my asexual identity.
I have an Elvira tattoo. I just love her confidence and unapologetic sexuality, she embraces her strangeness and doesn’t care about how she’s perceived because in her own words “the way I look is kinda a shock to everybody” absolute queen 👑
Honestly as a goth person myself, with this style I truly feel like me and it helped me find a great community, also as an artist it's a great form of self expression, I love the medival goth buildings and even tho I don't like horror I love some spooky and darker stuff. I think bc of the trad goths being the 'true' goth and how after a while it became more and more gatekeepy, true goths are the ones who listen to the music and follow a set makeup style and ideologies too, which in rerturn means bullying if you don't do that, getting called a poser while you just have found about these subcultures is very discouriging imo. But I advice everyone to just enjoy it tbh, I very much enjoyed vintage music and darker tones even before finding out about goth so for me it's very relaxing to just dance and really enjoy myself while listening to goth music, however I listen to everykind of music and recently there has been a rise of yeah even if your goth you shouldn't limit yourself which is so cool. The whole point is just self expression to me personly and I love doing it 💜 so to the baby bats (fresh goths) dw you will get there, no rush just enjoy it and don't be mean! Also thank you for this video, very informative and no hatred towards the style or the ppl, glad to see C: love your vids and happy you made a goth one too!
My favorite goth girls growing up were animated ones like Raven from Teen Titans. Hex Girls from Scooby Doo. Shego from Kim Possible. Rogue from X Men Evolution.
Sometimes, they have the "Perky Goth" archetype, who likes to dress in dark colours, but has an upbeat, chipper personality. Abby from NCIS is a notable example. 🖤
I miss Pauley Perrette! She's retired from acting but I hope she's doing well; she's spoken about having negative experiences on NCIS and had some health issues since she left the show.
There's this post about gate keeping Emos that rings true for this too. Something along the lines of: If you're just now discovering our subculture and wish you'd been there x years ago: don't. The gate keeping, elitism and bullying almost ruined it for everyone as it was so confusing to try to find your own style while also following the untold rules. This applies to mainstream fashion too, but it really becomes cruel when your group wants to claim its the true expression of what others don't dare to show.
Yes it's still talked about today and this group of like meditators came in to help it was so cool I'm so happy she touched on that kinda makes me giggle 😂
I am so glad that Lydia Deetz was shown to still be goth in the beetlejuice sequel. She is the only character I can think of who was shown to age and STILL express herself as she did in her youth. Showing that her being goth was not a phase but a core part of her self. Especially her bangs. I will forever love her pinch strand bangs. 🖤
As a long time goth it’s nice to see the line between goth and gothic highlighted. We sure don’t hold a monolith on dark aesthetics (and that’s one reason why I don’t think it’s too gatekeepy to highlight what is or isn’t typically goth, nobody has to use any label) but it going more mainstream seems to help funnel more subculture newcomers (baby bats) into discovering our wonderful music genres (gothic rock, darkwave and etherealwave) And our left leaning politics (and if anyone disagrees on that point they’re absolutely not listening to the lyrics of many seminal bands), not just the excellent fashion. Our long history of DIY and sewing our own pieces, plus a history of supporting small businesses when we can is another thing that’s especially hard to continue in the eyes of some, particularly with todays state of fast fashion but it’s still worth holding to our convictions of doing the least harm with our means, however that ends up looking to any individual. Plus it results in a far more unique look when compared to so much alt fast fashion.
Great comment. Yeah, I feel like goth (and punk) are about self expression sure, but they're very ideological and connected to the real world (protest, political mobilising, etc) and not as introspective focused as emo, for example. Not in a 'better than you' kind of way, but it's at the same time a product of it's time (although one could argue the cynicism is bigger so that even organising politically sounds ineffective nowadays) and something valuable enough that makes it a huge loss if it's put to the side when talking about the subculture. Don't know if I was clear enough but it's how I feel when conversations about goth this, emo that comes up.
28:58 You’re telling me THE Modern Gurlz knows about this event? 😭 IIRC the fight only stopped when Hare Krishna popped up singing and dancing which is definitely something that would only happen in Mexico
This is one of the coolest essays you’ve done! Love it! As both a fashion creator, horror fan and a heavy metal enthusiast this is just on the money. Thank you! 🖤
The thing is, the aesthetic/clothes are just "alternative fashion". A person can be alt without being goth, just as a goth does not need to be defined by their choice of clothes. The only thing that defines you as being a goth is enjoying the music... that's it... saying your goth without liking goth music is like saying your metalhead, but you don't like metal music. YOU CAN, but it's weird. Only liking the alt fashion, just makes you alternative or darkly inclined... you have to be apart of a subculture to be in one.
I'm half and half. I love the style, lack the confidence, and listen to a spectrum of dabbling in different veins of the genre. Like I listen to Pop punk or punk rock the most, but I dabble in dad rock, rock, pop, punk, emo, goth, everything except really heavy metal, but that's mostly due to my sound anxiety triggers.
Amazing video! As a goth girl myself, i really appriciate the effort you put into this, such a good research! I would also like to add another look on goths, it's a comic book "Johnny the homicidal maniac", from the person who later created Invader Zim. In many places, it's a satire on the subculture, which is quite ironic, because the comics were sold in the hot topic stores and the whole aesthetic of them were kept in the dark-moody-gothic way. i still loved them in my early teens. Once again: such an amazing video, as always 🖤🖤
doesn't help that some bands which are considered emo have some goth influence to their aesthetics. for example, mcr is considered emo, but their vampire inspired look and use of religious imagery for revenge also overlap with goth.
Your style subculture vids are always a favorite of mine even though I’m pretty much the opposite of goth I watched the whole way through! I would love to see you talk about the Victoria secret fashion show that happened recently. I’m not sure if you already have a videos about those events but I would to hear your thoughts on the current or past ones in general
I'm probably one of the posers-at the very least I'm inspired by it-but I just LOVE the aesthetic so much! It's such a cool blend of tight and flowing, new and old, polish and grime and it can fit into almost any other fashion style so seamlessly. I can't help but love it.
@@RoseEyed I have some goth recommendations for you! Siouxsie and the Banshees, Bauhaus, She Past Away, Lebanon Hanover, Sisters of Mercy, and Echo and The Bunnymen. These are all considered very very goth bands. New Wave and post-punk are also well loved by the goth community!
This is a really great portrait of the subculture. Nice! I would personally add a few notable things... The publication in 1831 of Victor Hugo's "Notre-Dame-de-Paris" or " The Hunchback of Notre-Dame" as most americans will know it is very dark. The Matrix in 1999 which heavily contributed in goth fashion being adopted more into the mainstream, and where the main characters are all gothic but they're the good guys, and the rigid fascist agents are the bad guys. There also seems to be a very noticeable cross-over between goths and cyberpunk, the latter being basically a sci-fi take on the former and being heavily drenched in goth drip. This is quite closely linked to Industrial Music and all its subgenres and offshoots being very goth in style and themes and so forth. Great work!! :D
i didn’t expect it to be mentioned but i love goth elements in visual kei! bands like buck-tick, moi dix mois and malice mizer incorporate it in their music and fashion
I grew up with goth, darkwave, post-punk music (The Cure, Bauhaus, Siouxsie and The Banshees, The Mission, Sisters of Mercy, Fields of Nephilim,...) because of my mum. But nowadays, a lot of those "modern fashion goth girls" in their shein and temu fits don't even know what goth music is or have any idea where the subculture stems from (punk, politics)
They don't even bother to learn about its origin or meaning some of the time, I wish people nowadays would think of it as more of a lifestyle or ideology instead of just a style
@@nickelsinacan3250 think of it this way, they are a bunch of teenagers experimenting to find their style in this life. And if they feel like it sticks with them they will eventually dig deeper and deeper into the subculture, philosophy, ideology etc. And the ones that you think are "faking it' will leave the aesthetic behind at one point. It's like styles and subcultures evolve by diluting and condensing endlessly.
True but in their defense you have to start somewhere. I am not super into the alt fashion or music secne (was more emo when I was a teen but even then I didn't have much choice on my clothing and I didn't really know that differnt music sub-generes exsited) But stumbling into alt spaces even as a 'poser' helped me to accept myself (I'm queer, was very depressed and Sewer slide al, and I wanted a freedom from religion and small mindedness) so yea I called 21 pilots emo and I didn't have the hair. But I tried to wear a lot of black (Again not many choices on my clothes) and I did what I could. Now at 21 I'm trying to build a waredrobe of fashion that speaks to me whether or not it has music ties shouldn't really matter. Fashion is influenced by music but that dosen't mean that those girls connections to the darker fashion any less vaild or disrespectful.
You did your research girlypop! This was so pleasant to watch & definitely was of great quality. The references from history and film/television was so intriguing. You put your foot in this video! Never saw Pedro Pascal in gothic attire but he looked muy guapo.☺️
The work you and your team put on is fantastic! The research, the visual resources, references, everything is so well done and put together. I wish I could step back 30 minutes before and watch all over again. It's great. Congratulations.
i'm sooo happy you included Ian McKinley from Final Destination 3, he's one of my favorite characters of all time and i've been dying for more people to talk about him
The lack of Debbie from American Dad in this video!! 😭 lmaooo. No but thank you for making this video. There's definitely some more things that should've been mentioned but overall you did a great job!! 🖤
Love you made thissss 🖤🖤🖤 did not expect to be here and see this. Would have loved to see a wee more content shown of the YT goth icons we have here in the community like blackfriday, random goth couple, toxic tears, etc etc
I've been researching the goth subculture for awhile now and your video is literally the best one, especially for beginners! You did a wonderful job! 😊
Another excellent video. It’s also really interesting whenever you mention different bands and artists and characters in TV shows that some people would consider Goth and others wouldn’t. It really illustrates how labels are so personal. Also, I’ve always considered Punk, Goth, and Emo to be siblings. I’m sure like any siblings. There might be some occasional rivalry between each other, but they’re all similar and united in a lot of ways.
Such a well versed and researched video. I’ve never sat and thought of goth culture at length but I had no idea how far back it went or its origins. I’m always ecstatic when you upload because I feel I’m getting a well planned out crash course of whatever style culture or niche you’ve chosen to do. You are my favorite intellect💘
As a fellow goth/alt person, I'm glad you're covering this. Sadly, we still get labelled as sad or evil, which isn't the case. I justvlove the fashion and how people create beautiful looks with the fashion side of alt culture. 🖤
I am a 47 year old goth, with adult children, and still have to deal with people being verbally abusive about the way I look ( which is WAY more normal than I looked 20 years ago). In the UK violence towards alt subcultures became front page news in 2007 with the vicious beating of Robert Maltby and his girlfriend Sophie Lancaster, with Sophie sadly never regaining consciousness.
I love this video, thanks! As someone who was emo (still near and dear to my heart, arguably STILL emo) who developed goth sensibilities, this was great to listen to and watch! Seriously appreciate your timeline, analysis and degree of research and visual references 😊. Agreed on your closing points - let the newbies try out and make mistakes, experiment etc. theirs are understandable, but also super projected unto the world, making them very visible. Especially because of how the primary social media platforms (I'm looking at TikTok) are designed.
A criticism about something this video touched on is, When it comes to embracing new blood (or Baby Bats) the thing that holds me back is when they ignore the music, books and history altogether and say you can listen to/read anything and be Gothic, I disagree. To be a Goth (without being labelled a Poser) you must understand AND appreciate where it came from otherwise you are just wearing a costume. You don't have to wear eyeliner and boots everyday but you must love the music and/or the literature. 🖤🌌🥀
The way I started the video just cause I knew you'd mention Sam Manson from Danny Phantom in this for sure. Now I'm content. Also, great great breakdown as always
The way you started the video with the Roman empire had me jiggling for some reason. Overall a good video, thanks My favourite goth girl is Sam from Danny Phantom Also recently I came across an online goth community and there was so much gatekeeping. That's why I personally don't associate myself with any subcultures, they often shame you for being even a little bit like a normie or having influences from other subcultures. I wanted to find communities with people who look like me and listen to the music I like, but they're too restrictive. Maybe it's only like that in my country, idk
An important cornerstone of the Goth subculture that sadly wasn't explored in this video is queerness and gender expression. A big part of why the Goth scene was (and in some areas still is) really, really *hated* by Neo-Nazis is because many of us are queer, and most of us play around with gender in some way. This is seen as deviant and degenerate and has sparked a lot of queerphobic violence over the years.
As an old goth from the 80s and 90s. Gate keep or be gate kept. If someone wants to be part of the goth culture but they want to change it to suit themselves... tell them to eff off.
i feel like the newest mainstream wave of goth-inspired subculture/aesthetic would probably be the e-boys/e-girls of early tiktok, i'm so interested to see where it goes next
the way “eli goldsworthy” sent waves through me 😵💫 i was OBSESSED w him omg. i currently refer to my style as overall “alt” as opposed to one specific but i remember relating a lot to emos & desperately wanting to be a scene queen as a kid, but i was too shy (& my parents were NOT going for it) all black just made me feel invisible & i liked that back then
I have always loved the gothic aesthetic. The gate keeping can be a bit wild though. Music wise I am a metal head, so I don't see myself as a part of the goth subculture.
Im glad you mentioned goths of color because they are not recognized even though they exist. I enjoyed this, I've always been interested in goth culture and history.🖤
I really like the point of just embracing the subculture as a whole, wether introduced through fashion or music, like introducing everything like the history and music of it is fascinating, but i find it a problem when newer goths just want the fashion and nothing else. Just purely want the label, then tear other people down for not looking goth enough.
^THIS no one should be excluded for not looking the part! I LOVE all of the alt fashions I always have. I was emo as a teen but I couldn't fully look the part due to a religous faimly so I did my best. Now as an adult I would LOVE to incorprate more goth, grunge, punk, and emo influences into my waredrobe... But I'm a poor collage student and I plan on teaching in rural Texas so my hopes for finding my fashion isn't looking hopeful.
@@wanderingjadah my main issue with that is I'm like a 3x ;_; and most thrift don't have anything that fits me in ANY fashion style. Like I LOVE thrifiting clothes but finding anything that I like visually, textually, and fits is near impossible.
Honestly I find the music to be shite...every bit of it. That's strictly my opinion of course. I love the literature, horror movies of old and Victorian fashion bits but one should NEVER tear down anyone else for not meeting their standards. Elitists gatekeepers set my teeth on edge.
As someone who’s been in the subculture and now called alternative scene for 15 yrs, this video feeds my soul🖤 I do wish to see a video on the scene nowadays and the inner workings of how it is now with elder goths vs the newest babybats. It can be messy. But loved the vid! Thanks for this
16:00 I have to chime in here, yes some punks did use offensive imagery and hates simple but by that time those fractions of punk were being removed from punk! (Some “punks” joined to muddy the water and make punks look bad)……a lot of punks in the 70 according to those there were LGBTQfriendly and didn’t stand for BS
Straight into the Visigoths for the beginning. Perfection.
The segue into “during the Roman Empire” has me fist bumping. I love her commitment to full context.
Yes exactly what I was thinking!! This is what I come here for❤❤😊
Truly spectacular
Poor Ostrogoths...
I was impressed as well. Excellent research throughout.
As a Mexican, I love your mention of the fight in Mexico because it was a big deal! You mentioned that teens are usually the main focus of goth, emo, and punk aesthetics, and that was true over there, the main difference is that in Mexico most schools wear uniforms with makeup, painted or long hair, and even painted nails sending you to detention. The only thing you could do was a jacket or hoodie, so you had to hide your subculture. However, with enough signifiers, you could be identified as one, creating a tight community for those who recognized your Nine Inch Nails or My Chemical Romance hoodie that was technically appropriate for school. It was after school (or outside of school grounds where teachers usually don't care what happens) or on weekends that your subculture would shine, and when these groups would physically fight each other. It's very surreal to remember it considering that there was a fight between emos and punk/goths because emos got tired of the hatred, the police were involved and it was only stopped by the Hare Krishnas.
never in my life would i thought that Modern Gurlz would even talk about this historical event lol
@@BoyInGreyWasTakenright am so surprised too, she did a good investigation
Ah yea at the end there. Im just now learning about all this indirectly. As I was more knee deep into anime and manga culture.
It's a shame the Hare Krishnas weren't mentioned, it's my favorite part of the story.
@@michimitchelson yesss thats the best part of it all IMO
The lore of goths vs emos in Mexico city is something I think about often
I feel like ur pfp goes perfectly with that comment
Truly a historical event here. It was marvelous seeing how the Hare Krishnas dissipated the animosity between both sides of the fight
you had to be there
Is there a documentary about it? Would love to learn more.
it was punks and emos
As a art history student who is currently studying gothic in the contemporary arts, this is feeding my soul in the best way possible and also perfect to study for my mid-terms😊
Yay art history students!
That must have been fun to study
According to Angela Benedict, who's a goth RUclipsr who has been active in the scene since 1995 at 15 years old, interns from Anna Sui's would show up to goth nights in New York to sketch the attendees.
Was that considered a good thing or a bad thing?
@@RogueVideoRaven Not sure! I'm a goth from Chile who got into it in 2007.
If shes who Im thinking of, shes awesome. In a non Victorian or Lovecraftian sense.
@@RogueVideoRaven Bad.
@@RogueVideoRaven bad, basically fashion brand ripping off ideas for outfits and clothing from creative but unknown individuals and not giving them any credit
I honestly think goth looks (any and all sub-genres included) are just so cool even if they're more mainstream nowadays they're still super cool and represent being yourself no matter. i hope one day when i can afford it i can take these styles into my own personal style
Hello I consider myself a goth and in all honesty it is literally cheap. Goth is a diy type of subculture also going to thrift stores. A lot of goths I know do this. It’s just now and days it’s expensive because of how mainstream it is and consumeristic. These goes against goth belief. Goth is an offshoot of punk. The goths of the 70s and 80s had to make their clothes or thrift because there was no stores that carry that type of clothing. In the end of the day goth is a music and political subculture not fashion, dress however you like. There’s no rule to dress goth.
@@bigbofatofu1713 omg I was about to say the exact same thing!
I am also goth and I have to explain to so many baby bats that trad goth and punk started as DIY! And it is such an important part that I feel is getting lost. (Not blaming people for not understanding. You look at Killstar and you think all goths are rich with those price tags.).
I feel like ModernGurlz needed to mention that. Thrift stores are subcultures bread and butter.
It can be cheap if you diy ir buy second hand. I've got some beautiful stuff from vinted and charity/thrift stores.
thank you for everyone giving advice i think when i go to uni i'm gonna truly experiment with my style (my dad quite traditional so i know he'd probably not vibe with it) i'm gonna try see what shops are near the places i'm picking for uni, i'll try out diy but also see if any shops nearby have anything that could make it easier
goth comes from post punk/punk, its made to be cheap.
I’m really proud of this RUclips channel for branching out into different genres, especially considering how much criticism goth culture has faced since the '90s and early 2000s. Even today, some past cheerleaders and clean girl aesthetic fans still look down on goth girls and guys. I hope that changes soon.
It's fantastic to see people getting to know one another's subcultures. You and a goth friend may not share the same interests, but that doesn’t mean you can’t be friends or relate to each other. It's essential to build friendships outside of our aesthetic groups because everyone needs community and support, regardless of whether you wear all black or pastel colors.
If your goth friend gifts you a book, read it. If your preppy friend gives you a Stanley cup, definitely use it! Again, I’m really proud of this channel for highlighting goths in pop culture and fostering a sense of connection among diverse communities.
I think its changing slowly I've been alt since 16 and I've noticed people are usually kinda or complement you more than insult. Biggest issue now alt people are over sexualized.
@@toxiczombiewolf5692 They have been fetishized if you saw how so many people viewed Serena from MTV Downtown, it's just that nowadays Big Tiddy Goth Girl became the mainstream tagline. And even with current alternative subcultures like Egirls and Gen Z versions of goth, you got the normie conservatives terrified of them like how they did with 90s goths and you got the gatekeeping goths and emos saying they're not goth/emo/alternative enough.
Just a quick suggestion, I would appreciate if u could add small references of the media showcased in ur video (film titles, artist name, etc.) on a corner of the screen. Loved ur research xx
agreed!! i had to pause so many times looking up where the clips came from
@afonsoalmeida4652 @keekzsz Did you try turning on [CC] closed captioning in the corner of the screen? That's what I do. Hope that helps. 🤍🕸️ fellow goth
I'd also love this even if a tiny title in the corner
I'll bet you guys wouldn't eat chocolate truffles if the flavor map was missing.
@@justfelloverattitude for no reason
Hey! I'm active in the goth scene, and the current goth community is fascinating since the bulk of people in it are Gen X, nearing or over 50 (but I'm in my early 30s). Most of them were angsty outcast teenagers in the 80s and 90s, and it actually wasn't a phase for them. Some still dress up, with corsets and tophats and platform shoes, but a lot just do a more comfortable look of band tee+jeans and combat boots. At least in NYC, it's a scene that spans generations... but the median age at most goth nights is probably around 47. Gen-z goths with dramatic TikTok-ready makeup and Killstar clothes are welcomed in... as long as they care about the music, which a lot of them do! And there are also goth parents with goth kids, and it's super cute (excited goth moms going all out with the hairspray while bringing their families to see The Cure seriously melted my heart). But yeah, it's pretty mainstream, to say the least. Sort of like how a lot of early metal bands have gone from being seen as subversive to being considered "dad rock." For every college kid with a stretched septum ring and white facepaint, you'll find 3 burnt-out "cool aunt" types with back pain and a drawer full of tshirts older than those college kids.
IMO, Abby from NCIS really changed things a lot. Finally, in the media, goths could be actual adults with real-ass jobs, not just moody teens. Right around the time that a lot of those original goths would be really starting their careers.
I got beef with fast fashion/the popularisation of moments like Goth, I’ve been in the subculture for over 15 years and I would’ve loved these popular brands as a kid it does take away from some of the meaning, I do wish there was more individuality in today’s goth scene
My middle school life was dressing like Lizzie Mcguire and very preppy while hanging out with goth kids because we had similar interests in shows, movies, ect. I just preferred wearing cute and pink clothes.
Pastel Goth was just waiting for you
That’s awesome. A lot of goths would consider you goth if you enjoy their music, literature, shows/movies, and general way of being even if you don’t dress “goth”. And the fact that you had relationships within the goth community.
unironically south park has some of the best and most accurate goth representation in media 😭
Yeah it really is funny how much authenticity went into that. It remains the one thing I actually like about South Park lol
Most deff. ...
@@TheP1x3l Can't make good comedy without actually knowing what you're making fun of.
The small South Park Henrietta cameo 😭 Also, acknowledging Daria’s Andrea, Akasha and the Hex Girls in the same video gives me life!!
@@lainiwakura1776i know this movie just isn’t it, but Aaliyah ate this role up, and the atmosphere of the movie was just overall gothic.
being goth has been one of the most freeing things ive ever done
YEP! As a babybat Afrogoth woman, despite that sounding weird since I'm 30 and have been interested in goth characters and themes since childhood; for the first time in my life, I feel right since I embraced my goth identity, other than my asexual identity.
I have an Elvira tattoo. I just love her confidence and unapologetic sexuality, she embraces her strangeness and doesn’t care about how she’s perceived because in her own words “the way I look is kinda a shock to everybody” absolute queen 👑
I love Elvira too for those exact reasons.
Honestly as a goth person myself, with this style I truly feel like me and it helped me find a great community, also as an artist it's a great form of self expression, I love the medival goth buildings and even tho I don't like horror I love some spooky and darker stuff. I think bc of the trad goths being the 'true' goth and how after a while it became more and more gatekeepy, true goths are the ones who listen to the music and follow a set makeup style and ideologies too, which in rerturn means bullying if you don't do that, getting called a poser while you just have found about these subcultures is very discouriging imo. But I advice everyone to just enjoy it tbh, I very much enjoyed vintage music and darker tones even before finding out about goth so for me it's very relaxing to just dance and really enjoy myself while listening to goth music, however I listen to everykind of music and recently there has been a rise of yeah even if your goth you shouldn't limit yourself which is so cool. The whole point is just self expression to me personly and I love doing it 💜 so to the baby bats (fresh goths) dw you will get there, no rush just enjoy it and don't be mean! Also thank you for this video, very informative and no hatred towards the style or the ppl, glad to see C: love your vids and happy you made a goth one too!
My favorite goth girls growing up were animated ones like
Raven from Teen Titans.
Hex Girls from Scooby Doo.
Shego from Kim Possible.
Rogue from X Men Evolution.
Dude o swear these had something to do with me eventually realising I'm alternative. That and the bike show my family took me too.
My bisexuality awakening because of these gals 😂
Heavy on raven and rogue
Sometimes, they have the "Perky Goth" archetype, who likes to dress in dark colours, but has an upbeat, chipper personality. Abby from NCIS is a notable example. 🖤
Yes, she's mentioned in the video
ik this isn't someone in pop culture but mavis from hotel transylvania sort of fits this
Perona from One Piece is a personal favorite, I miss her a lot
I miss Pauley Perrette! She's retired from acting but I hope she's doing well; she's spoken about having negative experiences on NCIS and had some health issues since she left the show.
There's this post about gate keeping Emos that rings true for this too. Something along the lines of: If you're just now discovering our subculture and wish you'd been there x years ago: don't. The gate keeping, elitism and bullying almost ruined it for everyone as it was so confusing to try to find your own style while also following the untold rules. This applies to mainstream fashion too, but it really becomes cruel when your group wants to claim its the true expression of what others don't dare to show.
Wait, there was a goth vs emo brawl in Mexico City? Can we have a movie on that?
There is a movie! It's called Darketos vs Emos (2008). Haven't seen it, but it's a thing.
@@notsogoodangel488 huh.
It actually is an important historical event in Mexican culture!!
Yes it's still talked about today and this group of like meditators came in to help it was so cool I'm so happy she touched on that kinda makes me giggle 😂
@@latokyobbsota the Hare Krishnas!
I am so glad that Lydia Deetz was shown to still be goth in the beetlejuice sequel. She is the only character I can think of who was shown to age and STILL express herself as she did in her youth. Showing that her being goth was not a phase but a core part of her self. Especially her bangs. I will forever love her pinch strand bangs. 🖤
The origins is not at all what I was expecting this might be my fave mg video yet🖤
thank you! you did a fabulous job on this subject.
im an "elder Goth" from the 80's. i appreciate the
historical coverage. 🖤
As a long time goth it’s nice to see the line between goth and gothic highlighted. We sure don’t hold a monolith on dark aesthetics (and that’s one reason why I don’t think it’s too gatekeepy to highlight what is or isn’t typically goth, nobody has to use any label) but it going more mainstream seems to help funnel more subculture newcomers (baby bats) into discovering our wonderful music genres (gothic rock, darkwave and etherealwave) And our left leaning politics (and if anyone disagrees on that point they’re absolutely not listening to the lyrics of many seminal bands), not just the excellent fashion.
Our long history of DIY and sewing our own pieces, plus a history of supporting small businesses when we can is another thing that’s especially hard to continue in the eyes of some, particularly with todays state of fast fashion but it’s still worth holding to our convictions of doing the least harm with our means, however that ends up looking to any individual. Plus it results in a far more unique look when compared to so much alt fast fashion.
Great comment. Yeah, I feel like goth (and punk) are about self expression sure, but they're very ideological and connected to the real world (protest, political mobilising, etc) and not as introspective focused as emo, for example. Not in a 'better than you' kind of way, but it's at the same time a product of it's time (although one could argue the cynicism is bigger so that even organising politically sounds ineffective nowadays) and something valuable enough that makes it a huge loss if it's put to the side when talking about the subculture. Don't know if I was clear enough but it's how I feel when conversations about goth this, emo that comes up.
Elvira is such an icon! I watched both of her movies a few months ago. I love her sm! 💕😖
28:58
You’re telling me THE Modern Gurlz knows about this event? 😭
IIRC the fight only stopped when Hare Krishna popped up singing and dancing which is definitely something that would only happen in Mexico
This is one of the coolest essays you’ve done! Love it! As both a fashion creator, horror fan and a heavy metal enthusiast this is just on the money. Thank you! 🖤
Sally and Jack from The Nightmare Before Christmas and Emily and Victor from Corpse Bride!
Edward scissors hands... Basically most Johnny Depp characters in a Tim Burton movie
The thing is, the aesthetic/clothes are just "alternative fashion". A person can be alt without being goth, just as a goth does not need to be defined by their choice of clothes. The only thing that defines you as being a goth is enjoying the music... that's it... saying your goth without liking goth music is like saying your metalhead, but you don't like metal music. YOU CAN, but it's weird. Only liking the alt fashion, just makes you alternative or darkly inclined... you have to be apart of a subculture to be in one.
Exactly!
I'm half and half. I love the style, lack the confidence, and listen to a spectrum of dabbling in different veins of the genre. Like I listen to Pop punk or punk rock the most, but I dabble in dad rock, rock, pop, punk, emo, goth, everything except really heavy metal, but that's mostly due to my sound anxiety triggers.
Amazing video! As a goth girl myself, i really appriciate the effort you put into this, such a good research! I would also like to add another look on goths, it's a comic book "Johnny the homicidal maniac", from the person who later created Invader Zim. In many places, it's a satire on the subculture, which is quite ironic, because the comics were sold in the hot topic stores and the whole aesthetic of them were kept in the dark-moody-gothic way. i still loved them in my early teens. Once again: such an amazing video, as always 🖤🖤
Seeing Abby makes me want to binge NCIS. Best character on the show by a lot
Ok, as someone with an Art History degree, your description of the Italien Renaissance was absolutly perfect, 10/10 🎯
Showing a clip of Rogue while you talked about the evolution in the intro- I see what you did there and appreciate it
I'm so glad that you explained the difference between emo and goth. I feel people always get them confused.
doesn't help that some bands which are considered emo have some goth influence to their aesthetics. for example, mcr is considered emo, but their vampire inspired look and use of religious imagery for revenge also overlap with goth.
my girlfriend is very goth so im definitely gonna show this to her. been loving your videos for years!
Update: she absolutely loved it 😊
Your style subculture vids are always a favorite of mine even though I’m pretty much the opposite of goth I watched the whole way through!
I would love to see you talk about the Victoria secret fashion show that happened recently. I’m not sure if you already have a videos about those events but I would to hear your thoughts on the current or past ones in general
Gypsy 83 deserves soooooo much more love. Thank you for including it!
I'm probably one of the posers-at the very least I'm inspired by it-but I just LOVE the aesthetic so much! It's such a cool blend of tight and flowing, new and old, polish and grime and it can fit into almost any other fashion style so seamlessly. I can't help but love it.
It's a music based subculture. The music is way more important than the clothes.
@@megmcguigan3857 I actually never knew that! Are there any contemporary bands? I was part of the emo generation lol
@@RoseEyed The r/goth community over on Reddit lists a lot of resources and band lists.
@@RoseEyed I have some goth recommendations for you!
Siouxsie and the Banshees, Bauhaus, She Past Away, Lebanon Hanover, Sisters of Mercy, and Echo and The Bunnymen. These are all considered very very goth bands. New Wave and post-punk are also well loved by the goth community!
@@no1zombielover Thanks for this! Just in time for Halloween and a new playlist. Planning on going to more events near me. Wish me luck.
This is a really great portrait of the subculture. Nice!
I would personally add a few notable things...
The publication in 1831 of Victor Hugo's "Notre-Dame-de-Paris" or " The Hunchback of Notre-Dame" as most americans will know it is very dark.
The Matrix in 1999 which heavily contributed in goth fashion being adopted more into the mainstream, and where the main characters are all gothic but they're the good guys, and the rigid fascist agents are the bad guys.
There also seems to be a very noticeable cross-over between goths and cyberpunk, the latter being basically a sci-fi take on the former and being heavily drenched in goth drip. This is quite closely linked to Industrial Music and all its subgenres and offshoots being very goth in style and themes and so forth.
Great work!! :D
the attention to detail and accuracy is amazing in this one! as a goth, i feel seen and understood. you did an amazing job, thank you!
19:10 "elvira serves-" yes. yes she does
i didn’t expect it to be mentioned but i love goth elements in visual kei! bands like buck-tick, moi dix mois and malice mizer incorporate it in their music and fashion
I grew up with goth, darkwave, post-punk music (The Cure, Bauhaus, Siouxsie and The Banshees, The Mission, Sisters of Mercy, Fields of Nephilim,...) because of my mum. But nowadays, a lot of those "modern fashion goth girls" in their shein and temu fits don't even know what goth music is or have any idea where the subculture stems from (punk, politics)
It's like you didn't even finish watching the video.
They don't even bother to learn about its origin or meaning some of the time, I wish people nowadays would think of it as more of a lifestyle or ideology instead of just a style
@@nickelsinacan3250 think of it this way, they are a bunch of teenagers experimenting to find their style in this life. And if they feel like it sticks with them they will eventually dig deeper and deeper into the subculture, philosophy, ideology etc. And the ones that you think are "faking it' will leave the aesthetic behind at one point. It's like styles and subcultures evolve by diluting and condensing endlessly.
True but in their defense you have to start somewhere. I am not super into the alt fashion or music secne (was more emo when I was a teen but even then I didn't have much choice on my clothing and I didn't really know that differnt music sub-generes exsited) But stumbling into alt spaces even as a 'poser' helped me to accept myself (I'm queer, was very depressed and Sewer slide al, and I wanted a freedom from religion and small mindedness) so yea I called 21 pilots emo and I didn't have the hair. But I tried to wear a lot of black (Again not many choices on my clothes) and I did what I could. Now at 21 I'm trying to build a waredrobe of fashion that speaks to me whether or not it has music ties shouldn't really matter. Fashion is influenced by music but that dosen't mean that those girls connections to the darker fashion any less vaild or disrespectful.
Came to this channel for the fashion content, but I'm always impressed by the thorough research. Definitely keeps me sticking around!
You did your research girlypop! This was so pleasant to watch & definitely was of great quality. The references from history and film/television was so intriguing. You put your foot in this video! Never saw Pedro Pascal in gothic attire but he looked muy guapo.☺️
The work you and your team put on is fantastic! The research, the visual resources, references, everything is so well done and put together.
I wish I could step back 30 minutes before and watch all over again. It's great. Congratulations.
i'm sooo happy you included Ian McKinley from Final Destination 3, he's one of my favorite characters of all time and i've been dying for more people to talk about him
OMG talking about Visigoths AND Gothic Music? Thank youuuuuu🙏🏾
No mention of Anne Rice’s Interview with the vampire? (book and movie) 😝 As a teen in the 90’s that movie and the craft had a huuuge impact on us 😂
I went through a goth phase, really creeped out my parents. Looked dope though.
10/10 video. Do an evolution of cyberpunk or steampunk
great video!
i’d really love a written down list of all the visuals used in it though (like films/series/cartoons) so i could watch some 👀👀👀🤍
The way I screamed at this title, I am so excited for you specifically to cover this!
The lack of Debbie from American Dad in this video!! 😭 lmaooo.
No but thank you for making this video. There's definitely some more things that should've been mentioned but overall you did a great job!! 🖤
Nancy from The Craft was always a style icon for me. 🖤
Okay now I need a list of every movie & tv you used clips from and mentioned! This was a fun look into goths
Love you made thissss 🖤🖤🖤 did not expect to be here and see this. Would have loved to see a wee more content shown of the YT goth icons we have here in the community like blackfriday, random goth couple, toxic tears, etc etc
Wow that was a really indepth video research. Well done... As a german goth since 25 years, I can tell you - well done!
I've been researching the goth subculture for awhile now and your video is literally the best one, especially for beginners! You did a wonderful job! 😊
Elvira was pivotal to me knowing I wasn’t straight growing up 😂😂😂
LMAO!!! Elvira was pivotal to me knowing that I was!!!! lololol
Repo! The Genetic Opera being mentioned in 2024 was not something I was expecting 😂 that movie definitely shaped me way too much as a teen
23:54 Daria wasn't a "kids cartoon"
Awesome video!
Abby, Lydia, and Shego are my favorites, though Richmond from the IT Crowd is also very enjoyable.
I love this it is so well build and it brings historical context plus Lisbeth Salander around the end. Thank you for your hard work.
So much research!!! That was so good, thank you.
Another excellent video. It’s also really interesting whenever you mention different bands and artists and characters in TV shows that some people would consider Goth and others wouldn’t. It really illustrates how labels are so personal.
Also, I’ve always considered Punk, Goth, and Emo to be siblings. I’m sure like any siblings. There might be some occasional rivalry between each other, but they’re all similar and united in a lot of ways.
The Crow mentioned !!!
Right?!?!? Not near enough respect for that masterpiece these days.
Such a well versed and researched video. I’ve never sat and thought of goth culture at length but I had no idea how far back it went or its origins. I’m always ecstatic when you upload because I feel I’m getting a well planned out crash course of whatever style culture or niche you’ve chosen to do. You are my favorite intellect💘
As a fellow goth/alt person, I'm glad you're covering this. Sadly, we still get labelled as sad or evil, which isn't the case. I justvlove the fashion and how people create beautiful looks with the fashion side of alt culture. 🖤
I am a 47 year old goth, with adult children, and still have to deal with people being verbally abusive about the way I look ( which is WAY more normal than I looked 20 years ago). In the UK violence towards alt subcultures became front page news in 2007 with the vicious beating of Robert Maltby and his girlfriend Sophie Lancaster, with Sophie sadly never regaining consciousness.
I love this video, thanks! As someone who was emo (still near and dear to my heart, arguably STILL emo) who developed goth sensibilities, this was great to listen to and watch! Seriously appreciate your timeline, analysis and degree of research and visual references 😊.
Agreed on your closing points - let the newbies try out and make mistakes, experiment etc. theirs are understandable, but also super projected unto the world, making them very visible. Especially because of how the primary social media platforms (I'm looking at TikTok) are designed.
girl i ADORE these vids. they are so fun to watch while i workout or rewind for the day. love what you do! 😌🫶🏼
A criticism about something this video touched on is, When it comes to embracing new blood (or Baby Bats) the thing that holds me back is when they ignore the music, books and history altogether and say you can listen to/read anything and be Gothic, I disagree. To be a Goth (without being labelled a Poser) you must understand AND appreciate where it came from otherwise you are just wearing a costume.
You don't have to wear eyeliner and boots everyday but you must love the music and/or the literature.
🖤🌌🥀
MAN this video was unexpectedly thorough i appreciate you so much :' )
ALSO ELI GOLDSWORTHY MENTIONED
33:28 but Kim was not the actual villain in Blair Witch 2, she was possesed and then left to take the blame
Right? I was so confused when she said that I thought I was stupid & missed something in the movie
unrelated but i love your voice, it’s perfect for video essays!
An outstanding narrative weaving of the evolution of Gothic concepts and notions throughout history and the impact of societies.
Morticia Addams will always be my Roman Empire🖤💋🧛🏾♀️
Indeed 🖤🦇
Agreed...long live the republic. Catherine Zeta Jones actually does an amazing job in the new Wednesday series but Carolyn still sets the standard.
Wow, didn't expect to see a cameo from a Ukrainian movie (Viy at 11:45 )! That is soo cool, thanks for the recognition! Love that movie so much
Gogol was the first writer, who scared me through the text!
The way I started the video just cause I knew you'd mention Sam Manson from Danny Phantom in this for sure. Now I'm content. Also, great great breakdown as always
The way you started the video with the Roman empire had me jiggling for some reason. Overall a good video, thanks
My favourite goth girl is Sam from Danny Phantom
Also recently I came across an online goth community and there was so much gatekeeping. That's why I personally don't associate myself with any subcultures, they often shame you for being even a little bit like a normie or having influences from other subcultures. I wanted to find communities with people who look like me and listen to the music I like, but they're too restrictive. Maybe it's only like that in my country, idk
An important cornerstone of the Goth subculture that sadly wasn't explored in this video is queerness and gender expression. A big part of why the Goth scene was (and in some areas still is) really, really *hated* by Neo-Nazis is because many of us are queer, and most of us play around with gender in some way. This is seen as deviant and degenerate and has sparked a lot of queerphobic violence over the years.
This video is top notch 👌 👏 your attention to detail to goth, something dear to me, brought me joy 😊
OMG Shadow high mentioned!! Iconic video just like goth culture itself, I love it but I don't commit to a single style
As an old goth from the 80s and 90s. Gate keep or be gate kept. If someone wants to be part of the goth culture but they want to change it to suit themselves... tell them to eff off.
i feel like the newest mainstream wave of goth-inspired subculture/aesthetic would probably be the e-boys/e-girls of early tiktok, i'm so interested to see where it goes next
See I think they were more emo inspired than goth
the way “eli goldsworthy” sent waves through me 😵💫 i was OBSESSED w him omg. i currently refer to my style as overall “alt” as opposed to one specific but i remember relating a lot to emos & desperately wanting to be a scene queen as a kid, but i was too shy (& my parents were NOT going for it) all black just made me feel invisible & i liked that back then
VIOLET FROM FRIDAY THE 13TH IN THE THUMBNAIL LESGOOOOOO
AJ MASON STAND UP
This was AMAZING! I love your videos and how deep into the history you go. This was such a well crafted video!🖤🖤
Morticia, Wednesday, Elvira, She Go, Lydia...so many awesome goth beauties.
I have always loved the gothic aesthetic. The gate keeping can be a bit wild though. Music wise I am a metal head, so I don't see myself as a part of the goth subculture.
whenever i see a modern gurlz video pop up on my recommended, i just know it gonna be an amazing watch
realmente no me esperaba la mención de la batalla de emos vs punks 😅
Please do Disney villain ranking next.
Black cat PFP twins Sorry I just saw the cat and needed to share mine XD
This was well put together. Thank you for making this.
omg pedro pascal as a goth and also "dance with the dragon" clips and an extensive history of goths??? what more could I want??
This is insanely so well-researched. Kudos!
Im glad you mentioned goths of color because they are not recognized even though they exist. I enjoyed this, I've always been interested in goth culture and history.🖤
I really like the point of just embracing the subculture as a whole, wether introduced through fashion or music, like introducing everything like the history and music of it is fascinating, but i find it a problem when newer goths just want the fashion and nothing else. Just purely want the label, then tear other people down for not looking goth enough.
^THIS no one should be excluded for not looking the part! I LOVE all of the alt fashions I always have. I was emo as a teen but I couldn't fully look the part due to a religous faimly so I did my best. Now as an adult I would LOVE to incorprate more goth, grunge, punk, and emo influences into my waredrobe... But I'm a poor collage student and I plan on teaching in rural Texas so my hopes for finding my fashion isn't looking hopeful.
@@wanderingjadah my main issue with that is I'm like a 3x ;_; and most thrift don't have anything that fits me in ANY fashion style. Like I LOVE thrifiting clothes but finding anything that I like visually, textually, and fits is near impossible.
Honestly I find the music to be shite...every bit of it. That's strictly my opinion of course. I love the literature, horror movies of old and Victorian fashion bits but one should NEVER tear down anyone else for not meeting their standards. Elitists gatekeepers set my teeth on edge.
As someone who’s been in the subculture and now called alternative scene for 15 yrs, this video feeds my soul🖤
I do wish to see a video on the scene nowadays and the inner workings of how it is now with elder goths vs the newest babybats. It can be messy. But loved the vid! Thanks for this
16:00 I have to chime in here, yes some punks did use offensive imagery and hates simple but by that time those fractions of punk were being removed from punk! (Some “punks” joined to muddy the water and make punks look bad)……a lot of punks in the 70 according to those there were LGBTQfriendly and didn’t stand for BS
Black goth here (been in the subculture for over a decade, since I was a small baby bat). Thank you for the shout out. We exist lol