Airlines WEIGHT SHAMING?! And TUI flight 7226 Serious Incident, Explained.
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- Опубликовано: 16 мар 2024
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Has this happened to you? Sometimes, airlines or airport authorities announce that they will be weighing passengers, before boarding. And this isn’t always voluntary - sometimes you HAVE to step on that scale!
I know that some of you already have a pretty good idea of what this is about, but in this video I will also show you an example of the kind of safety margins that we have, and how important they become when the weighing process… goes wrong!
On the other hand, if this is news to you and you want to find out whether or not you should let airline staff weigh you…
Stay tuned.
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Below you will find the links to videos and sources used in this episode.
• New Zealand airline we...
• Air New Zealand to inc...
• Airline weighs passeng...
• Virgin Atlantic A330-2...
• Air NZ asking passenge...
• How to Use the New Sel...
• How 715,000 Pounds Of ...
• How American Airlines ...
• Finnair starts weighin...
• Meet Finnair Business ...
• Working with High-Qual...
• Self Service Baggage T...
• Introducing your new l...
• Checking In
• TUI Group: Arrival of ...
• We proudly present you... 
Развлечения
Use code "mentournow" and the link below to get an exclusive 60% off an annual Incogni plan: incogni.com/mentournow
It's amusing how they're considering reducing emissions, yet the very individuals declaring climate change an emergency fly private jets and drive V12 Rolls-Royces. The unfortunate part is that many believe their assertions.
I don't understand why the medical community or even the World Health Organization still don't say nothing about the FAT pandemic that the retarded generation is spreading.... is a soooo much worse than smoking.. you smoke you may get cancer... you fat yourself up.. and YOU WILL have hypertension and/or diabetes at really early age.. is a biological fact.. and still... they don't say a single word about it..
I've thought for some time now that passengers come in all shapes and sizes and with their carry-on bags they are cargo that's not being weighed. Ideally the passenger and ALL of their luggage (including carry ons) should be weighed and charged. It's a bit like electricity or some other tariffs - a base rate plus a per unit cost
Oh come on. The first story you gave is an example of how badly coded software led to a problem, and is not a good argument to stop using average weights. A badly coded piece of software could just as easily add the weights incorrectly or incorrectly convert between units (pounds and kilograms). And the margins were still enough such that there was no issue. As for the older stories, it wouldn't be difficult to use higher average weights if all your passengers weigh more than expected. At some point you have to consider the human cost, and the cost of putting off customers who have their own struggles. User pays can absolutely go too far and be exploited commercially - just look at the US medical system. This is literally the first time I've been disappointed in one of your videos.
I don’t know if you’ll get this message or not but a good tip for you take a trip up to Anchorage Alaska then go out to the illusion Islands you could make yourself some pretty cool videos there a lot of the freight hold unlike seven 37/2 the plane is cargo half the other plane is passengerthey either have to fly it in or they have to boat it in. It’s pretty cool up there go up in August you can wear the middle of July you can get yourself a bunch of halibut.
There's an issue with conducting a weight survey voluntarily: People who are more comfortable with their weight are more likely to participate. And since most people who are uncomfortable with their weight usually weigh a bit more, this will inevitably lead to a resulting average weight that is below the actual average weight.
From the description Petter gave of the Finnair self-selected approach, it seems likely to me that the objective is more focused on identifying the differences between summer and winter travel, rather than on the absolute weight of the passengers. If that's the goal, then they're probably assuming that the self-selection bias will be the same during both seasons and thus will cancel out in the differential statistics.
As a private pilot I have always wondered why commercial aircraft, especially commuter aircraft, do not use the pressures in the wheel strut assemblies as a method of calculating the weight (and also actual CG) of an aircraft. The accuracy of sensors in the last 10 years are so much more accurate. They can be calibrated and recertificated at inspection/overhaul times
I would say because of the added cables, redundancy, procedures to update. It could make the plane heavier and of course it would cost.
@@ffwrude new designs however should and will probably have this.
But indeed, retrofits might not be feasible or possible since this sorta feature brings certain demands to all the parts in the chain of carrying the load from the wheels to the main structural frame. Mainly the suspension and the parts attaching each wheel assembly to the frame.
We'll see
That. A simple digital read out to measure the compression of the gear springs would prevent a lot of overweigt incidents. Even with redundancy, the extra weight would be negligible.
@@ffwrude
are you trying to say they add cables , redundancies and procedures during bording?
Because that's a bad System for Lager Aircraft. The Tires have to be Up to A Certain PSI. Also Fuel will be different on Each Wing. Also The Pressure on Each Stut should be a Standard PSI. You Should be well Versed on Useful Weight.
Personally, I'm on the weigh everybody camp. The *only* thing that gives me some pause is if airlines decide to change ticket prices based on weight or restrict number of bags for certain people etc. But if it's purely for safety, I have no problem.
I think it's great if they let me have more carry on luggage for being smaller than most people.
@@giftofthewild6665 absolutely. As someone who only really ever flies with things like bikes and such, I get charged quite a bit per extra kilo despite being about 75kg myself. Yet many passengers are well over my combined me+luggage weight and then get their baggage allowance too. Total combined average weight for passenger and luggage, and charge over that. Much fairer. Even if you're tall, it doesn't add *that* much to your weight vs just having a desire to eat chocolate and cake all the time. Being fat has become normalised and it shouldn't have been. Now everyone else is having to pay for the average overweight person who doesn't want to take any responsibility for being a massive blimp.
Airlines have lost the trust of people with all their fees and reduced benefits and everything the last two decades so people naturally don’t trust their motives. I have no problem with safety checks for weight. But trying to charge me a fee at the last minute due to weight I do have a problem with. If tickets were sold up front based on weight I’d have less issues as it’s not some hidden charge that gets sprung.
Personally, someone so fat as to weigh as much as two normal people probably ought to pay more!
They absolutely will start charging extra for people over 180 lbs if this becomes common. Look what they're doing with bags
Petter, I'm a 70y/o USA female who weighs more than 200 lbs. I absolutely would have NO problem being weighed. I realize that we Americans are grossly overweight, and being weighed before a flight, to make the piot's calculations more accurate sounds like a really good idea.
Dude, I routinely overeat, sit for most of the day and don't do any exercise (no, walking to nearby places and/or walking my dog or playing with it is NOT exercise, it's just a normal part of life), and I'm barely 60kgs or so (have been for a decade so i know I'm not gaining weight). How do you even get so big? That's not normal! Do you not walk when you go to places that are nearby (1 or 2 kms away) and do you not move around your apartment/house?
@@Amygondor dude. what the hell’s wrong with you? some people have different metabolisms. just because you look thin doesn’t mean you’re healthier if you do the exact same things.
@@Amygondor guess you've not heard of medical conditions. I got a good friend who even if they eat dangerously minimal food, their body only turns it into fat. They cannot get skinny, not without highly expensive surgeries.
@@Amygondor A sample size of 1 has no importance. What is significant is physiology and all things surrounding it.
- Overeating could mean taking a few more bites in a Tokyo noodle place, or trying not to be wasteful at an American restaurant, which is a lot more calories. You have to be more precise about that one.
- Due to ancient survival pressures, many people stock fats too efficiently and have strong urges to overeat. It is not their fault, their ancestors just lived in a crueller wilderness. That is why medicines like statins have to exist. That is common among older people, because metabolism slows down differently between people.
- Due to employment pressures, commuting is not the same even in the same country. If you have to wake up at 05:15 just to drive to work on time, you are not using calories. Unlike most urban areas with great public transport, most places in the USA, Canada and UK do not have that.
- Truck drivers can't be on their feet at work. Because it is also a tiring job, they can't let their blood sugar get too low for risks of attention slipping, and they have to keep up with shifts.
- Some jobs are far more stressful. If you have to be at work early in the morning for 12 hours every day, you can't spare time if you have work the next day, you can barely get sleep.
- Stress eating is a coping mechanism for some people, and many of those people work long hours in jobs like IT, so they can't get exercise.
Working hard these days does not mean burning more calories, everyone knows the risks by now, so let everyone else be, because we also know eugenics only works for livestock, so you aren't improving anything without a fundamental change in our economies.
People are just eating too much and should be shamed.
As a programmer, I find it both horrifying and not surprising that they programmed the software to look for the age of the passenger from the title instead of the other way around.
Comparing numbers is much faster than strings of characters, after all...
Well, as a programmer, maybe that field was not always populated when the program was first written. Some reasons it may not have been are that airline pricing only takes into account passengers under four years old, they share a seat with the parent (itself potentially not capable of storing both in the db structure), and some countries have family passports or family IDs for children up to a certain (and potentially variable) age. Or maybe it was populated, but just based on that pricing policy. Probably lots of other possibilities too.
@@SystemBD I wonder if someone is gonna chime in with something akin to "but what are strings, but 0-terminated arrays of numerical values representing alphanumerical symbols?"
Actually, I'd find that conversation kinf of interesting to watch if it happens.
@@SystemBDDepending on the database and the programming language used, I can see that using the Title instead of DOB might actually be a lot easier (not faster compute time wise) to code for (if Miss then child) then converting the database value to a date and then comparing that date with one or more reference dates.
I find it ridiculous they want to call them Dr. So what, you need to present academic credentials to board a plane now?
I've been weighed before getting on 3 aircraft, 1 was for a helicopter ride and the other 2 were before going skydiving. My immediate reaction was that it made me feel safer, like they cared about the accuracy of information and weren't going to let a little awkwardness get in the way. If one of the big commercial airline companies wanted to way me at the check-in desk, I wouldn't question it.
The skydiving weighing probably had to do with the limits of the parachute..!
@@MentourNow same thing with bungee jumping, only had two helicopter trips , a there and back so same heli but don't remember getting weighed
Hmm. I've been in several helicopters, but I've never been weighed. 🤔
That’s because they are small aircraft where weight and balance is critical for safety.
Have t been weighed prior to helicopter flights but been weighed prior to flights on very small aircraft, most recently a 4 seater with a beach landing
I remember at an old job we all had to stand on a big scale together at once. Before a flight. Maybe this will be a work around for anyone feeling singled out. It was sort of funny.
It would be actually a good idea. Having a big scale like the ones for trucks before the gates, so they can quickly weight people at once pre boarding. If there are people showing up late just make all of them wait until closing boarding and weight them and board them at the last moment.
In the military, I've deployed overseas a number of times and we always weighed ourselves and our bags in advance of the flight. The last time, we had to share a plane with another unit that didn't do that and it caused a problem, as in they had to offload most of their gear and leave it in Bahrain to wait for a different flight to take it back to the US.
As a larger person it blows my mind that we aren't weighed! Weight and balance LITERALLY keeps the plane flying, and I'd rather the airlines not guess 😅
Since most US passengers are fat its more of can the plane get off the ground issue than a balance issue.
This girl gets it
Because it might "offend" someone or something.
I'm pretty sure the safety margins are such that apart from costs/environment the impact is about zero. As long as passengers stay in their seat and don't run all to the same side of the airplane or start jumping around passenger weights won't matter much for keeping the airplane flying.
@@RoadDestination pretty important reasons truth be told
Years ago a TWA flight departing Las Vegas experienced an unexpectedly long takeoff roll. It was later determined that the majority of passengers had attended a numismatic convention and were each carrying around 30 lbs of coins.
Oh yeah coins are dense. I once had a small purse full of coins in my backpack and the TSA agent asked me what that was since he saw a metal chunk in the x-ray. Surprisingly heavy for such a small purse. I guess airlines should weigh hand luggages too just in case.
That must have been slow getting through security eh, or was it prior to that.
I like made up stories
@@brokenglassshimmerlikestar3407 [I guess airlines should weigh hand luggages too just in case.]
I see a marketing opportunity for someone to build scales that are in the form factor of the devices used at the gate for checking the dimensions of luggage to determine fit in bin/under seat.
@kickedinthecalfbyacow7549 Believe me when I tell you how long holidays take when all the coins have to be gone through after every transaction and exchange, and how many holidays to coin conventions need to be arranged as well.
At the beginning of this episode, I was against being weighed. Having listened to Peter and understanding the reasons why it is an essential part of flight planning, I absolutely will be happy to be weighed. Just a small example of your ongoing ability to educate and enable critical thinking skills. Awesome as always 👏👌💫
Weight and BMI aren’t suitable. Muscle weighs more than fat. Therefore a fit, lean, athletic person could potentially weigh more than an obese person, of the same height.
I endured a transatlantic flight sitting next to a very large man, who spilled into my seat. I always travel premium since that awful experience.
Same here! Understanding the reasoning behind this and knowing the things that depend on accuracy of the data, especially with solid examples is so important
@@jaijai5250No an athleticly built person could never weigh as much as an obese person of the same height. An extreme body builder 180cm tall might reach 120-130kg while an obese person easily weighs double or even triple that
When my wife and I were in Vanuatu in about 2006, we flew from Efate (the main island) to Tanna Island for a few days. We were on a 12 seater in one direction and a 24 seater on the way back and we and our luggage were weighed so that they could make the seat allocations in order to balance the aircraft so that it wasn't heavier on one side compared to the other.
I have no problem with being weighed and wouldn't have a problme even if it was introduced as a standard thing on all commercial flights. Safety is always the number one priority when flying, in my book.
i am a professional boat captain here in the US and several years ago the Coast Guard revised maximum passenger capacities of commercial watercraft. Overweight people have become so common that a new "average" had to be calculated. As a result many commercial watercraft had their passenger carrying capacity downgraded. It might well be time for airlines to do the same?
Or maybe charge people according to weight, and have heavier people pay more for larger seats, distributed in places so the weight is better spread out, and the added bonus that they then don't spill over into my seat?
Airlines and aviation regulators have been on the ball on this issue more so than anyone dealing with boats, so they probably have already done that way earlier than the coast guard.
@@alisonwilson9749 I'm a skinny guy, and I was once seated between two very overweight people who were both spilling well over into my seat. I was thinking to myself, "WTF, I paid for an entire seat, not 2/3 of a seat. These people should be paying part of my air fare considering the fact that I'm now sharing my seat with them." It was the most unpleasant flight I've ever had. And I mean skinny when I say skinny, like 6ft and 120 lbs. I can't imagine how bad it would have been for a more average built guy, had they been sitting between those slobs. Anything that would prevent that type of thing from happening to people, would be wonderful!
@@flapjack413 those two people were still human beings, not slobs.
@@flapjack413Since the 1990s, the width of most airplane seats shrank from 18 inches to 16 inches, and the distance between seat backs decreased from 35 inches to sometimes less than 28. A lot of the problem is that airlines are trying to pack in more seats and are making seats smaller. Trust me, it's not comfortable to be fat in a small seat with all the hard parts digging into you.
I absolutely agree about weighing passengers. However I suspect the main reluctance to be weighed is the expected "how is the airline going screw me over this time" feeling.
Having everyone weighed before each flight brings things one step closer to charging by weight.
For example if the airline has decided the average weight is 85Kg and I weigh 86Kg I would be quite pissed off if I suddenly have to pay an extra $25 at check in.
Welcome to the world of tall people, who already have to pay a premium if they want to have a seat that they can fit in without amputating their legs first. 🙄
No offense to you, I am just annoyed by the fact that I always have to go for premium eco on long-haul routes (which increases the price drastically) to make it bearable. I didn't choose to be as tall as I am, I just didn't stop growing before almost hitting the 2m mark. I can deal with economy width wise. It's not spacious or comfortable by any means, but it works. but by seat pitch - nope, no chance. Doesn't fit. So in a way, people with certain body types are already charged way more than others. Even if it's not explicitly said, it's just a given due to the way airlines put the seats into their planes.
Well I get pissed off if I'm five kilos over the baggage allowance and get charged a substantial penalty - then I get seated between two people who are 50kgs more than me. (I know it's volume not weight that makes the difference then, but it roughly correlates).
I'd certainly support a total person + luggage weight allowance. (OK, I have a degree of self-interest in that obviously, since my baggage allowance would be fairly generous).
Nightmare if they charged by weight, literally penalising people for being tall and pushing people who travel frequently to be anorexic. So seems pretty likely tbf.
Even bicycles have a maximum weight limit. So if you are obese you should buy a bicycle that can support your weight. You don't want the frame to desintegrate when speeding down a hill.
For aircraft weight is a safety issue too. So weighing passengers is good for the safety 😊
we should charge by weight.
the last time my bag was a little too heavy it cost me over 100 EUR.
it's nonsense that a person literally twice my size that can barely fit into their seat and spills into mine pays the same amount.
my mom had long legs, i suck it up and buy her a first-row ticket every god damn time because it's something she can't help.
if you can't help being a larger person, pay the $25.
I think the biggest issue with weighing is people would be worried they would be denied boarding at the gate due to weight. Remove that concern and anonymize the data, and I think resistance would go down to manageable levels.
For the calculations all the airline needs to know is seat number and weight.
Make 'em pay extra if they're overweight. It's their fault they're fat anyway.
Is it an actual issue though? Are the cases when people are denied boarding due to weight? I was under impression that it’s a fear of a potential but not a thing that’s happening but I might be wrong… that would be wild.
I’ve always found it absolutely crazy that airlines don’t weigh everyone for weigh & balance calculations.
My uncle and aunt were both significantly overweight. Back in the 1980s they were in Hawai'i and were taking a small island hopper from one island to another. I don't know the exact kind of aircraft it was beyond the fact that it was relatively small and propeller-driven. They checked in and eventually boarded the flight without a problem but, once on the aircraft, the cabin crew asked them to sit on opposite sides of the plane to, presumably, balance the weight distribution of the aircraft. We all laughed about it when they told us the story but I wonder if it's still an actual thing.
I've totally seen that on smaller prop planes -- both weighing people and asking people to move to rebalance.
Physics haven't changed, so probably still a thing lol.
But tbh I'd be more worried about fore/aft weight then lateral imbalance.
@@kazansky22 Funny how laws of physics seem to stay the same, eh?
We were shuffled in an aiplane mid flight because it needed to be balanced. It was a sea plane, Twin Otter something, no person over 85kg onboard, but still it did make a huge difference.
Small planes do it all the time. We all can’t sit on one side of the plane. And think about canoes too.
Years ago I was on a little puddle jumper from Chicago to Toledo. The flight crew went through the cabin before take off and asked each of us how much we weighted then had us switch seats. The only thing that bothered me was that I worried about how honest the people were about their weights!
I made that rookie mistake as a newly minted helicopter private pilot and barely managed to take off on one of my first flights taking a friend flying. Never just ask, actually weigh. I'm surprised even the airlines make that mistake.
That's what scales are for so no one can lie about their weight
Just don't ask ex-presidents, especially BMI!
@@MichaelBrodie68 Don't be as shitty as his crowd is, bringing politics into god-damn everything. BMI is a dopey measurement period, specifically not supposed to be used for that. There's more than enough to mock that guy for.
I feel like lying to your pilot is like lying to your doctor, only more immediately potentially fatal.
I really enjoyed this video. I want to see an "I was weighed" sticker on everyone's top when I board the plane - just like the stickers you get after voting 🗳 "I voted"😂
Lmao I want one too 😂
A great video. I have no problem with the request to be weighed. Safety is crucial. If the pilot has an accurate weight then he doesn't need to adjust his margins.
It should be easy to build anonymized automated sensors into the boarding process when you walk on the ramp.
If you weigh 10 people at a time you don't even need to worry about privacy. Just turn a little region near the gate into a scale and put people through in batches.
@@petergerdes1094Yeah a clever enough computer system will be able to tell when someone gets on and gets off a scale.
@@revcrussell Or just put people through in batches.
This is a really great idea
Another example of weight discrepancy incidents: Air Midwest 5481. Plane was 264kg overweight and the centre of gravity was 5% off. Stalled and crashed into a USAir hangar at CLT shortly after takeoff. Killed all 21 on board. I believe Petter covered this crash on the main channel.
a 264 kg overweight does not cause any crash. It musn't happen for sure but it cannot be the reason of a disaster. When weight and balance is calculated there are still tolerances which keep flying more than safe
@@d8889 I mean, 21 people on board, it's a small plane, so 264 kg seems very impactful to me
@@d8889 looking at the small size of the plane yes, a quarter TON is enough. look at some private jets having only a 90kg tolerance for bagages.
@@d8889Except that it throws off the CG and is what caused the stall. Specifically the weight of the heavy bags in the tail
The sole purpose is weight and balance so you weigh how much,your personal item,your carry on luggage...your only allowed so much weight( look at the smaller aircraft) there is so much weight allowed in baggage area,there is a small area past the baggage area...there is no room for error
There are conveyor belts that can weigh boxes as they pass by. It seems realistic to have a scale built-in to the gate that weighs passengers as they walk through, perhaps without them even noticing. The pilots could then have a total weight of the passengers on-board.
There's a million different ways they could get the info they want, but I think if you do it surreptitiously like this, you're opening yourself up to even more scandal when it inevitably leaks. "XYZ airline wants to weigh passengers" is a lot better headline than "XYZ airline found to have weighed 200,000 passengers without their knowledge or consent in the month of April."
@@Potte Yes, the concept only works in a perfect world, where the powers that be are mainly interested in improving society.
But, if the weight information was totally anonymous then I don't see the harm.
Better yet, it would be nice if there was a giant weigh scale that the plane could taxi over on it's way to take off. It could be set up so that not only is there a total weight readout of the entire plane but they could get a warning if their center of gravity is off too.
@@ecomotive6158 I think that's a much better idea, and I'm kind of surprised that it doesn't already exist. Why do we have weighing stations for trucks on the highway, but not aircraft on the apron? The only remaining issue I can imagine with that could be that you wouldn't have the complete weight information until after you're fully boarded and basically ready to begin taxi, which might be too late to really utilize that information. Even so, I still think it would be better than not having it.
@@Potte Maybe the pilots could do their normal weight and balance calculations and then use the giant scale more as a confirmation and final safety check. If the giant scale gives them a reliable and accurate reading of their weight and its less than expected then maybe they'll just use a bit less takeoff thrust to help minimize engine wear, similar to their flex-temp procedure.
I once boarded a flight in Athens some twenty five odd years ago. It was a German A320. I could see as people boarded that they were carrying an enormous amount of hand baggage. It was like an emergency evacuation from a war zone. After a while the captain announced that there would be a delay as they would be off loading some fuel !
I would rather airlines weigh people than not. I have done the weight and balance calculations for many aircraft, and the uncertainty over the weight of the passengers is the biggest uncertainty by far.
When I worked for a major US airline, that I will not name, we used average weights for both passengers and checked bags. This was used in preparing the load plan by the load planner for the flight. The load plan on narrow body aircraft told how many bags were to be loaded in each bin of the aircraft in order to balance the aircraft. We had discussions about this because we, as the ones handling the bags, that many bags were heavier than the average weight. and talking to the gate agents we found out that they had reservations about average weights since they saw the passengers and knew, due to the increase of obesity in the US, that a significant portion of the passengers were above the average weight used in planning the load. As far as I know both of these still haven't been adjusted to reflect reality.
As far as having a margin of error, I have a story about something that happened, also during my time working for the same airline. A DC-10-30 had flown in from Paris on a transatlantic flight and was scheduled for another flight to LAX 2 1/2 hours later. The aircraft was unloaded at the arrival gate (or at least that was what was believed) and this is where things started to go wrong. It was towed to another gate for its subsequent departure. The aircraft was loaded according to plan and since it was a Monday, which is normally a slow cargo day, all the baggage containers and a single container of cargo were loaded in the forward cargo bay. Nobody even opened the aft bay door since nothing was planned to go there. What nobody realized is that the ground crew had failed to completely unload the arriving flight due to an equipment shortage. Five LD3 containers, weighing over 10,000 pounds total, had been left on board in the aft bay. The aircraft taxied and took off and the pilots later reported that the rotation had been "irregular" and they had difficulty trimming the aircraft and had to do a lot of "hand flying" on the way to LAX. Meanwhile the cargo people were calling about the missing cargo. The load plan showed them on board the inbound flight and it was confirmed they were loaded in Paris. After some communications, discussion and investigation it was figured out what happened. I was not privy to what communication between the SOC, flight crew, and management occurred, but I know at least two people became newly unemployed and a couple of very unhappy pilots had some pretty harsh (and not undeserved) comments for the people handling things at the departure airport. How this flight managed to take off, fly 3000 miles and land safely is a testament to margins for error and a whole lot of luck.
Someone with a few stripes on their shoulders did not do a proper walkaround inspection, I would guess…
Actually, this would not be caught on walk around. Loading, opening/closing of doors takes place almost up until pushback. The walk around usually happens even before passengers board while the pilot flying does cockpit setup and other duties. They just look for the door open light to go out before pushback and don't visually confirm the load. @@soffici1
@@soffici1
Never heard of a captain or FO opening cargo doors to do inspections on walk-arounds.
@@AB-80X that sounds very strange. Are you in the airline industry, by any chance?
I’ve have always looked into the holds when doing my walkarounds: it’s not the first time something like this happens and it is kinda dangerous to go flying with unknown stuff rattling about down there (pun kinda intended).
Well, they’ll probably update it soon to prevent the next Air Midwest Flight 5481
I have loved this and found it a lot more thought provoking than many other topics. No one wants to touch this topic like its a career killer or taboo. I appreciate that you covered and just how respectfully you did it
Excellent Video as usual.
Returning from Portugal to the UK 20 years ago, the plane only had 26 passengers. I questioned when we checked in why we had no seat allocation numbers and we were told, and it happened, that the crew spread us out to aid the take off as the plane was so light.
I experienced something similar in a flight from Bremen to Amsterdam, although the aircraft was full. The ground handlers were unable to close the cargo door, and having tried everything else, the crew started shifting us around, and eventually they got the door closed, we took off and had an uneventful flight.
After takeoff, were you allowed to shift around to a more desired seat? I had a similar flight once, we were told that we couldn't move before takeoff, but, once we were up to altitude, feel free to move wherever we wanted to.
Not the same but amusingly on one Delta flight many years ago we were not given seat allocations but were asked to sit anywhere next to a portside window. As the captain explained it "to make it look fuller than it was as we passed a competitor's terminal". There were only 9 passengers on that 727 flight. It was the first sector on one of those multi-sector flights that seemed common in those day.
I'm a IT profesional myself and I'm amazed at how easily they got the app up and running with known bugs and resolved them while it was running in "manual mode" as în described situation. I have not encountered such situations with "softer" applications regarding the consequences of errors. (ex : computer system of a chemical plant) in 30 years of activity. If I agreed to be weighed on every flight, definitely YES!
Good luck, worthy of respect, and dear Peter! Daniel from Romania.
Thinking about the Air Midwest Flight 5481 that crashed in Charlotte, NC, back in 2003, partially due to being overweight. That was a small prop jet, but it's been noted that all flights could be made safer if weight and balance calculations were based on the actual weights of passengers and carryon baggage, instead of using tables of averages.
As a lighter person (150 lbs /68 kg), I have been “strategically seated” on smaller aircraft for backcountry trips in Alaska. It’s a more cooperative environment where my team is typically 30-50% of the passengers, and we are working with all the other passengers and pilot(s) to pack every person and all our gear, mail & packages on a turbo prop aircraft. There may be a redistribution if there are multiple drop-offs along the route. It’s just part of the adventure!
Same here, and pretty standard. The last time I was in Alaska my wife and I flew in a seaplane. I work out a lot and my wife is petite. The pilot put me up front next to him and my wife toward the back.
As someone that works in technology, we really do our best to avoid making changes later than Thursday. Too many people are off on Fridays or go home early. Not only that but we get an extra buffer of at least one day for the people that are around on Fridays to fix issues before the weekend.
Surprised they don’t just weigh the entire plane before take off after everyone/everything is loaded. Trucks in America frequently have to pass over scales.
I had the same question. Can someone answer?
Even at my biggest, I happily jumped on the scales to get weighed before a scenic helicopter ride. I knew they didn't care about my weight, but wanted to distribute us correctly between helicopters and seating positions to ensure we were safe
You are absolutely correct they were interested in everyones safety not your weight. After the first couple of hundred passengers they wouldn't be able to remember who weighed what or who was who.
@@barrycox7922
Yeah seriously. They do this in and out, daily. It’s their job. At some point, they just DONT care and CANT give fucks to care about what your weight is and judging you by whatever there is.
In 1990 I flew from South Africa to Europe. On our flight was a rugby team with all reserves etc and a UN peacekeeping contingent (UNTAG). They had been in Namibia for the elections. The plane was FULL. Together with the relatively long take off run due the altitude and hot weather in Johannesburg, I felt like it was never going to get off the ground. When we reached cruising altitude the pilot came on and said, „Well, we were a bit heavy on take off there, but we’re on our way now, so sit back and relax…“. I had the feeling he was also happy to have made it into the air 😅
I wouldn’t object to being weighed if it contributes to safety.
That sounds dangerous! They should have raised the issue and arranged for some people to take a different flight honestly
@@brokenglassshimmerlikestar3407 I am sure the pilots were aware of the added weight and took it into account on take off. It was just that it seemed obvious that the plane was heavier. They wouldn’t have taken off if it was dangerous.
To be airborne was the most dangerous part. After that the plane looses a lot of weight every minute, considering fuel consumption. That is why the pilot told you sit back and relax.
It depends on the Aircraft type, too. DC-8 (still often used back in 1990) and later also A 340 are well-known for their bad take-off performances and their slow climb while B 757 are in opposite well-known for their "rocket-start", even fully loaded.
Thanks for the video
I've ridden amusement park rides that require weighing riders before boarding. I completely understand that, because the ride may have safety parameters regarding how much weight each car/train/raft can safely take, or regarding how the weight should be distributed. (But they didn't announce or display any individual person's weight.)
I'm absolutely in favour of weighing passengers. If this became standard practice for most airlines and most airports, just incorporate a scale at security. Someone is already scanning your boarding pass to make sure you're allowed through security that day. This would catch everyone regardless of how they check-in and whether or not they need to stop somewhere before security to turn over checked luggage.
I agree - it shouldn't be an issue. Safety is the #1 priority.
Hmmm won't people from one especially litigatious country complain? "Butbutbut muh privacyyy" 😂
Security is before the airside shops, which might add some uncertainty...
Many small planes like those that fly in Papua New Guinea charge you based on weight and route. You can't fly without it. Of course, discretion is important.
I feel it is avoided for customer experience. However, that might be a margin we can no longer take for granted.
Discretion becomes obsolete upon sighting the passenger. On a flight I was asked to take the seat of an overweight passenger who had purchased a seat at an EMERGENCY EXIT. She was loud about it, tried denying, and then started negotiating. The flight attendant with a very firm voice told her: "lady, you cand move or you can take a different flight"
@Flight-td3jc True, but people can be sensitive about their weight. These are customer serving businesses. Since only the pilots need to know the total weight, why reveal potentially embarrassing information. It would seem reasonable to me that you'd only tell a person if they asked. Otherwise, you'd just keep quiet.
I have literally just watched Missionary Bush Pilot's latest upload before coming here - he's a missionary pilot flying in PNG, and started his video off by working out the weight he was carrying - and having to offload seven kilos to be safe.
Sponsor transition was TOP TIER
I wish I could remember more specifics, but I remember reading in a book that "back in the day" (I'm thinking 1950s), airlines would put weight sensors beneath the carpet in front of the check-in counters, to weigh passengers without their knowledge. There was no online check-in or kiosks in those days!
There should be a scale integrated into the boarding pass scanning machine at the gate such that the pilots get the exact weight at each seat
Ground crew need those numbers way earlier than boarding though. There is freight being loaded, fuel being planned for and so on. You can't wait until the last passenger has boarded to find out whether or not the plane is going to be overweight or out of balance.
@@stephenp448 true, check-in/arriving to the airport would probably be a better time for it
@@niklasxl although.. playing Devil's advocate, then people go duty free shopping or other such things prior to heading to the gate. It's a tricky issue. For the record, I am 100% in favour of using actual pax weights, just not sure of how you collect the data in an accurate and timely manner.
@@stephenp448 yeah, but i think the amount of tax free shopping done probably will be so small compared to the rest of pax and carry on weight
@@niklasxl for sure.. I'm just thinking about maximum possible accuracy. I fly small aircraft so I'm all about having as close to exact numbers as possible.
Nowadays, since there are so many people that can't fit in airplane seats, it's obvious we have a problem...SMH
And THATS actually one of the reasons. Enjoy the video
agree
Also, why are airlines constantly upgrading the seats to smaller dimensions. I'm 6'4" and economy doesn't fit me anymore. My...knees!
@@Sammasambuddhadon't fly budget.
In my opinion is every body who don't fits in a seat
a spezial need patient. I don't mean disabled.
Hafþór Júlíus Björnsson (the mountain GOT) would
fit in this category and nobody would call him disabled.
Last time I was weighed prior to boarding was around 1975. It was a hot summers day with a fully loaded F27. I got a good look at the perimeter wire fence and the cows in the next field shortly after rotation!
Thank you very much for bringing up this Topic!👍 Arrow Air Flight 1285R is still a sad example what can happen.
I seriously don't understand the hesitation of people in the airport stepping on the scale. I lived a while on the Philippines and when one uses these island hopper planes with 8, 12 or 20 seats it is absolutely normal to register ones weight. And in case of this small planes, they even use the weights for the balance of the plane, left/right and front/rear as once was explaned to me.
just yet another queue, no? haven't you thought about unnecessary overcomplexing everythin nowadays?
I hesitate because I’m not fat. Why should i step on the scale for?
Jason Manford, British comedian, said he was on a smaller plane and they asked him and his tour manager to sit on opposite sides of the plane because it was throwing off the balance.
@@TheBoobanSo they would know exactly how unfat you are, because the more unfat you are, the fatter can the other gentleman be. If they know how much exactly the plane weighs, they can be more accurate with the plane setup and use less resources, I mean we all watched the video.
It isn't the case with big commercial flights, but with smaller planes people died because the pilot assumed that everyone is of average weight or that the skinny passenger was skinny enough to offset two walruses in the back.
@@TheBooban Also if you imagine a scale, and you have 3 persons, 2 weighing 70kg each and one weighing 140 kg, you can put both the 2 lighter persons on the left and just the heavy person to the right. This to try and explain the concept of center of gravity. This is often done with cargo, but if the difference in passenger size is so massive it might actually be done with passengers aswell, especially on emptier flights.
Also if everybody on the flight were to weigh 70kg , and they wouldve calculated with 80kg avarage, they could save fuel for 10kg in weight for each passenger + what wouldve taken to fly with the extra fuel that they wouldnt need anymore, cause flying with more fuel ofc also uses more fuel since the plane is heavier.
It's pretty amazing how airlines try to minimalize fuel usage, and ig its convenient for both environmental and economic causes... like the avarage driver wouldnt think to leave everything in their car that they dont need at home to save fuel, but an airline sure as hell will
In order to be statistically valid, you cannot have a "opt in" sample, such as Finnair is using. Passengers on the "heavy side" for example, may choose not to participate, thereby skewing the results. You just can't know.
@@Antagon666 No you can't, as you wouldn't know by how far they are skewed, if at all. Adjusting the stats would be based on what? Averages. Then what's the point?
Totally agree. A self-selected group is never going to be an accurate representation of the general population.
I came here to say this too! either do for everybody, or don't bother doing it at all.
While in the military, we charted a plane for specialized training in our deployment window. We put on our packed rucksacks and weighed in so there was no guessing on our total weight.
My first flying was as a passenger on Aurigny flights from Southampton to Alderney using Britten Norman Trislanders. Those were an overstretched version of the Islander light-transport and very sensitive to balance due to the long fuselage. Assigning seats according to weight was routine. Children tended to be seated well forward, adults nearer the CoG. Since there was no separate flight deck, the front-row passengers could watch how the aircraft was flown over the pilot's shoulder.
I'm good with them weighing me and my carry-on. I'm a bit overweight, but probably within their average calculations. Still, I prefer the "better safe than sorry" approach.
Makes sense, aircraft aren't magic afterall and weight/weight distribution is definitely a consideration
Even the scale operator doesn't need to see the weight. The machine can scan your boarding pass to associate your weight. It can also have cameras to ensure accurate readings.
That is how it will be initially. But, eventually, airlines will move to a "by the pound" or "by the kilo" pricing model. When you book your ticket, it will be for a certain maximum weight and anything over that will incur an additional charge. At that point, the ticketing agents will have to be able to see your weight so that they can verify it if needed when dealing with angry customers.
Maybe if the weight was posted above the gate on a 150 cm tall sign, then we would have less obese people...
@@AB-80X Not likely. The number of obese people probably wouldn't decrease in any meaningful numbers. What would happen is less obese people choosing plane travel. That would be good for those still choosing the plane but worse for the economy over all.
my problem with that is why do they need to associate the weight to a specific passenger at all, if there were some motivation similar to weight balancing i could understand it but as it is they just need to know the total weight of the passengers bags and all. a small pressure plate at the gate tracking a running total is all thats needed, would cause less disruption to the passengers and frankly would raise less eyebrows when it comes to data protection.
im not the type of person that would care if they shouted my weight for the other passengers to hear, but every single time a company "just wants to collect a bit more information about our customers" they find a way to monetise that data one way or another, if not for themselves then they sell it off to someone else.
if your weight is associated to your boarding pass its also linked to your address, phone number and email, how would you feel to discover the airlines sold the data of anyone over a certain size so they could be targeted by weight loss product ads or commercials for "Fat camps" to lose weight. if we actually had some laws protecting from this kind of abuse i would be of a very different opinion but all we ever get is a pinky promise from companies of what they will or will not do with our data, untill then im happy to share all my information with pilots or engineers but not CEO's or AD departments.
@@AB-80X less risks of diabetes, cancer and increase life expectancy. It would reduce healthcare costs...
A defense contractor I once worked for operated a pair of Beechcraft 1900 D aircraft. They had transitioned from the FH-227 to these two smaller aircraft and didn’t understand the changes in weight/balance other than calculating T/O and landing weights and plotting the CG. Early on, the plane tipped onto its tail during offloading (baggage in the aft compartment and nothing in the rest of the plane. They made a butt stand to put on the aircraft when it was finally parked for offloading. Ultimately, we started weighing passengers and seating according to weight. Heavier people in the front rows, neutral on the wings, and lighter people in the back. Loading front to back and offloading back to front (while simultaneously offloading baggage and pax). People just understood it was necessary.
Absolutely in favour of doing so. It seems ridiculous to me that I should pay an extra fee for having 1kg of excess baggage while the other passenger weighs double my weight.
Exactly. But that will offend the body positivity folks. I'm a big compared to the average person (6'2" 225lbs) but compared to some of the people in the US I'm downright small.
when was the last time your luggage walked on board?
You really think the airlines would reduce your airfare? No chance of that under capitalism lol.
Exactly right
I was thinking the same thing.
Getting onto an airplane is a hassle anyway - you have to register, go through security, metal detectors, x-ray machines and such, stepping onto a scale is pretty quick and easy compared to all of the other hoops you have to jump through.
Glad to report my last three flights just involved a walk across the grass to a floating jetty and a lovely trip in a Cessna C208 amphibian.. Bliss!
@@allancopland1768 hopefully that Cessna took you to an interesting destination)
Best RUclips channel!
I remember a relative of mine was a steward on the inaugural glasgow to new york with BA. The flight was full of invited people and press ( and a large amount of carry on recording and TV cameras). The captain was generous with fuel and on rolling the cabin crew noticed poor acceleration and the FULL length of the runway was used. They then had to fly along the river Clyde as there was very little climb rate. They even had to deviate to avoid a mountain on Aran on the way out. The passengers were delighted with the low-level tour. 😢
I have always thought passengers should be weighed
11:40 As a software developer, I would be really unhappy to find out that a piece of untested software went into production. Especially in something as important as aviation. If you don't have QA people to verify the software, you simply do not upgrade the systems on the fly! If you plan upgrading the software during the weekends, you must have QA people working during the weekeds, too.
Also, a well running software teams should be running automated regression tests. That is, for every bugfix you ever implement, you write an automated test that verifies that the fix still works and there's no regression on that part. This is because many software bugs are result of developer misunderstanding the system and once a single misunderstanding has happened in some part of the system, the changes are pretty high that some another developer will have similar misunderstanding in the future.
Totally agree - what I'm hearing regarding the S/W during the pandemic is actually frightening.
With consequences like this especially. This isn't about how many packets of peanuts to pass out.
Who thought that airlines would have better QA than Boeing? :D
I am also a software developer and agree with you.
The biggest misunderstanding here was the English language itself.
Exactly my thinking. Which kind of unprofessional crap has TUI been running there? Has nobody learned from Y2K and similar? How can any sane developer get this crappy idea of using plain text of peoples names (which can be anything you cannot imagine) as metadata?
Thanks so much for this video! I hadn't known that weight was a life-or-death issue until I watched several RUclips videos analysing fatal accidents of smaller planes, all far exceeding their safe weight limits. They were carrying too many passengers (more than they had seats for!) and too much luggage.
Some years ago I flew internally in Sweden, and before starting from Malmo, a stewardess guided our seating on the not quite full plane, to enable an equal weight, I suppose, on this minor turbo-prop plane to Gotland.
I don't mind stepping on the scale. Safety first!
If we're on topic of safety, I hope Peter will do a video about the whistleblower ex Boeing engineer apparently deciding he doesn't want to be on this world anymore, all this in the middle of giving a testimony against Boeing. Very interesting timing!
YES! IMO he absolutely should. This is news that would (on top of the stuff he has covered, of course) be worth covering. The timing, what the whistleblower said to family before his death, the suspiciousness is just too great.
I remember getting ready to go bungee jumping and 2 teenage girls in front of us balked at having to get weighed. The operator said if you force me to guess your weight and I get it wrong you're hitting the ground, they complied.
It's very good idea! Real weight linked with seats numbers give the real veight balance of aircraft
Technically, there’s probably an easy and inexpensive way to place scales as people walk through the gate linked to their boarding passes being scanned
So the people boarding last get kicked off?
@andrewj9831, no need to kick anyone, just relay the accurate numbers, so that pilots could use those once everyone board.
@alejandrosantamaria8455, may thought exactly. Or weigh the whole plane after boarding.
I recall reading a NASA ASRS report many years ago about passenger weight. The airliner departed from a city where there was a coin collector convention. The Captain and FO reported much longer takeoff rolls than calculated. They speculated that the discrepancy was the luggage, much of which was quite heavy with coins.
I remember it too, could it have been the late 1970s?
I assume that was in unweighed carry-on baggage?
Interesting to see this! I joined your Discord community recently, and I shared a story going back to (I think) 1992. I was in the Royal Canadian Air Cadets, and had travelled to a summer camp at CFB Penhold, AB, CAN. This is an army base, and does not have an airfield. The cadets chartered flights from (now defunct) Canadian Airlines to transport us. These were the old 737-200 aircraft and as a charter from a major airline, naturally the flights were outside of normal scheduled flight hours, often with departure times around 0200-0300 local.
Anyhow, for CFB Penhold, we were flown into the nearby Red Deer airport (CYQF), which is a very small airport that normally only handles smaller twin-prop passenger aircraft or privately owned small jets at best. When returning home, the plane was loaded up (via a stair ramp, this is a small enough airport that you walk out onto the tarmac to board your flight). The entire plane was cadets, CF officers, and the cabin crew/flight crew. The plane was a full load this time, every passenger seat occupied (by a whole bunch of people wearing identical uniforms lol).
Anyways, the captain was concerned about the takeoff roll on a runway much shorter than they were used to operating the 737-200 out of, so they had the cabin crew ask everybody onboard their weights prior to takeoff. We were even told that if it was too high, some cadets would be bumped from the flight, and as this was a charter, they would instead be flown home on a military transport (C-130 Hercules) that would be called in to CYQF from nearby CFB Calgary or CFB Edmonton. Turns out, nobody had to deplane, but it was still an interesting experience, and as we were told why they were asking, some passengers (cadets, even one of the adult officers) were a bit uneasy about the takeoff length...but it all worked out fine. The pilots were just being extra cautious, flying an aircraft I assume they were very familiar with from an airport that 737-200's were not normally landing at...
As an aside, on a future summer camp trip, to CFB Cold Lake, AB, CAN (which is the CF-18 Hornet training squadron base, so they definitely have longer runways to handle fighter jets and large military transports like the USAF C5 Galaxy that would sometimes fly in for joint operations). However, the 737 they had chartered for our return had a technical issue, and Canadian did not have a spare aircraft close enough. So we were sent home (to CFB Winnipeg, approx 1400km away) on a C-130 transport. That was the most unpleasant flight I've been on, on a military C-130. We were seated in those harness seats strapped to the interior walls, there is practically no noise insulation so we were all issued hearing protection to wear for the entire flight, and it was a LONG flight, 1400kms in a C-130 (turboprop, not jet). So I'm glad for the above that no cadets had to be bumped onto a C-130 lol...
A MTOW 737-200 needs 6100 ft. The Red Deer airport's long runway back then was 5528 ft. The airport is also at 3000 ft, which takes away a bit of performance. They definitely needed the numbers to be safe. At least the typical cold night air in Red Deer was in their favour.
Standing 150 feet away from the centerline as one of those took off is still the loudest experience of my life, which I got to experience while in Air Cadets.
I have been weighed on multiple occasions prior to flying (in smaller aircraft and large helicopters). Flying involves an inherent risk, you are above the ground and are going to come down at some time, either controller or otherwise. Flying is a privlage not a right. Correct weight and balance are important to ensure that the way we come back to earth is done in a controlled manner. I always feel safer if every thing is weighed. It is a simple question of invasion of ones privacy compared to invasion of the safety of everyone involved (including those on the ground under the flight path).
I am glad that so many people were keen to be weighed, apparently the general public have some common sense.
As a former boat racer, weight balance affects boat performance A LOT.
On a boat, worse performance makes you lose races... on an airplane, I'm guessing things can get real ugly real fast.
What about horses?
@@tsuchan huh?
Horse racing, weight also affects the performance of a horse, is why jockeys are usually smaller and lighter people.
@@Wugioh Fair enough, I'm kind of surprised they didn't put some minimum weight rules or something there.
In F1, they introduced a minimum weight rule to prevent drivers from doing too extreme diets to reduce weight. Some drivers had some health issues mid race (if I remember correctly) because of it, so they changed it for safety reasons.
We are talking about commercial flights here, performed by commercial jets. Not a stunt team or military personnel using fighter jets.
The aim of commercial aviation to transport people around. Not to compete about the most "efficient" flight ever made.
Otherwise we can ban people over a given weight threshold from flying altogether! Or maybe fly empty jets as they will carry the most evenly distributed weight load ever: None!
I think how it is handled is key: Finnair was right to give passengers a heads up before they arrived. Privacy and professionalism is important, too. I shudder to think how this would work if TSA, for example, which is known for unprofessional conduct towards passengers, was running the scales. Not displaying the weight, and definitely ensuring that agents don't mock people because of their weight, would make or break this in the US.
My impression is that people don't get mocked because of their weight. A very muscular girl will most of the times not get mocked because of her heavy muscles. It might be different for the 5 foot sweating clearly visible obese guy.
You don't need to know the actual weight, all it takes is to have a look.
The only time I encountered what I considered a lack of professionalism with TSA was when I was boarding in LAX for a flight to Narita with a musical instrument case. The case had latches that had to be opened a certain way (rotated prior to lifting) and I said to the guy "it's not locked but you have to rotate the latches before you lift them". He gave me an angry look, grabbed the case out of my hands, and took it off to a side room. When he brought the case back he hadn't done as I said, but had smashed the latches open with a hammer. Why on earth would you want to open something the hard way rather than the easy way?
@@stefan_sth Either the weighing is about safety, in which case people should stay professional and keep insults or mockery to themselves, or this is just an attempt to shame, and the public will not comply.
The price for compliance is professionalism.
@@RichardDCook Inappropriate behavior by TSA Agents is a real problem in the US: 2 TSA agents in Denver were fired for groping attractive male passengers. A TSA agent in Miami was arrested for mocking a passenger's genitals. A TSA Agent in Minneapolis was criminally charged for taking dozens of semi nude photos of passengers during preflight screenings. TSA Agents at DFW targeted attractive female passengers for screenings.
I've been weighed for a commercial flight - years ago. It was a "puddle jumper" carrying less than 50 passengers, iirc. Weight, and weight distribution, was important!
I've also been on a large commercial flight, which was sparsely booked, where the crew asked passengers to relocate on board - for trim (almost everyone had booked in the front rows).
Absolutely agree (with weighing)! 👍
No problem. Well, yes, I am a bit overweight myself, but I'd rather not be on a flight that is seriously overweight. But then again, I was a glider pilot in quite a number of years, so I know the importance of weight in general, and CG in particular.
A very good and well documented video, Petter!
Petter sounds Danish or Swedish. Is he one of both?
The channel itself is described as being from Spain.
@@Celisar1 Petter is Swedish, but he is currently residing in Spain.
He is Swedish, but doesn't live in Sweden as far as I know.@@Celisar1
In the old west, travel cost on a stagecoach did depend on your weight
In the 1980s there was a helicopter service from JFK to midtown Manhattan and they didn't weigh you but did ask your weight. If you said "12 stone" they would say "Any pebbles?"
Charge by weight, like cargo...I lost 40 pounds and I could get a discount maybe..
I will remember that the next time I book a stagecoach trip through Arizona!
@@digidol52 Hmm. Dunno why we should have to convert a perfectly sensible system for weighing living creatures into some bizarro-pounds-only-please nonsense. It's like being asked to give your weight in ounces!
@@Blitterbug You missed the joke, I think. He was talking about US at New York City.
Absolutely, when it is for safety !
Many years ago in Shetland the passengers were weighed along with the baggage before taking an inter-island flight on a Britten Norman Islander. Not a problem, I think. Have never been weighed when checking in for flight on bigger aircraft.
Commercial aviation is (or should be) the epitome of safety first. I'll go take a dump before boarding if that helps. Weigh everything, I don't care ! Safety safety safety, in that order.
This really wouldn't bode well for elevators... they are far more likely to have a catastrophe due to exceeding the maximum capacity.
There is a thing in boxing community where fighters don't eat and even drink before weighting to fit in the category. Sometimes even loosing consciousness during weight. Wonder how the queue to gate would look like if ticket price depended on your weight lol
So you are not that bright...
What a weirdo the weight tolerances never even get close to a jets MTOW.
Technically we really accept that safety is the number 2 priority. (Only because there will always be a tiny amount of risk..... if safety was number 1 they'd ban flying to remove even an infinitesimal amount of risk.)
Not sure what the issue might be as freight airlines have needed this and not having it accurate can cause some huge issues.
That gravity thing affects more than apples.
The "health at any size" and "fat positivity" movements
Feelings… that would be the issue. Feelings override logic and safety in American society
@@ghostratsarah they aren't fat they are famine resistant.
I was a commercial balloon pilot operator for several years and I along with most Balloon AOCs typically used the pre-declared passenger weights to calculate acceptable net lift margins. A few operators did weigh passengers on the launch field with varying degrees of embarrassment and some used the CAA male/female average for last minute guests.
Interestingly a passenger couple on a paid flight would sometimes swap weights on the application form as (psychologically?) this 'looked better' for the applicant but that wheeze was pretty obvious to the Pilot in Command. However, provided their combined weight wasn't obviously a work of fiction and/or there was a good safety lift margin no real harm was done.
Of course the balloon envelope 'knows' if it is overloaded for a given ambient temperature and payload so when that (rarely on a commercial light) happened, a flag attached to a pre-determined low melting point solder over temp strip would release and come floating down internally often hitting the pilot on the head! The flight would/should then be called off, an envelope crown inspection and pax number reduction made and replacement flag fitted.
That "update" that prevented the fix from working sounds like a version control malpractice.
In ten years, we will look back fondly with misty eyes on the good old days of being weighed as we put on our mandatory in-flight paper underwear after finishing up our pre-boarding enemas.
Pre-boarding enema 😂
😂🤣😂🤣🙌😄
The last airline I worked for would survey certain routes separately. Passengers on the Asia routes generally weighed less than those from the USA, so route specific averages would be used.
if you could sense the weight on the tires, the difference between nose and main would have the information for setting the horizontal stabilizer. that would be a good thing. it could also say "hey Charlie, your tail is too heavy"
When we used to fly to/from Sydney-Norfolk Island in a Fokker F27 Friendship and, later, the F28, we were always weighed.
I began weighing my passengers after finding myself in a potentially dangerous situation.
I was giving a ride to a friend who, like me, was rather large. I asked her weight and she gave me a number that, it turned out, was understated by 120 pounds. I ran a weight and balance calculation and determined, with full fuel, we would be just under maximum gross weight and just at the forward CG limit. To be safe, I requested the FBO to only partially fill the tanks.
During the preflight I found the tanks completely full. I decided to launch anyway because I had done the W&B assuming full tanks and was within the envelope.
I noticed something wasn't quite right at rotation and, like an idiot, I didn't reject the takeoff but horsed it off the ground.
I snapped, "How much do you weigh, really?!?" and she gave me the true figure. There was no way for her to safely transfer to the back seat so I flew around at a high power setting for a while to burn off some fuel and then hoped I had enough elevator authority to land safely.
Yes, we were over gross with a center of gravity that was forward of the limit. We made it none the worse for wear but now I don't believe _anything_ anyone tells me about their weight.
You get the same problem with riding schools- people lie about their weight. It's particularly disgusting that people do that, because the reason they're being asked is so that they can be given a horse that's physically up to their weight.
Wow, she must have been quite the house.
I mean, can't tell if she tells 120 under? That's a lot to lie about.
@@AB-80X I'm no good at judging people's weights and I took her at her word. It never occurred to me that she would have reason to lie. Live and learn.
@@johnopalko5223 It's hard to believe she might have been ignorant of her true weight. I can feel 5 lbs difference up or down. I hope she is now aware of how dangerous her "miscalculation" was.
@@kelleemerson9510 Oh, she knew. She told me her true weight when I snapped at her. In retrospect, I shouldn't have snapped but, at the time, I was is full "Okay, I screwed up. Now how do I keep from killing both of us?" mode.
From that point forward I went through great pains to explain the importance of weight and balance to all prospective passengers. It impressed them when I would hold my hands to the side of the airplane, about nine inches apart, and tell them the center of gravity must fall within this area.
That was way early in my flying career. I took a big ladleful from my "Luck" bucket and transferred it to my "Experience" bucket.
Luckily, it didn't discourage her from flying with me. I would put her in the back seat and make sure the plane was fueled only to the tabs and we were fine.
After flying the piper archer, where someone tossing a 20lb bag from the front seat to the baggage compartment can mean the difference between safe and tail heavy, I would like to see more weight considerations everywhere. On smaller aircraft (like the DHC-3 turbo otters in many of alaska's tourism flights) you often get weighed before they assign seats to keep balance within limits.
Ah, you're a proper flier. I usually travel on Twotters and C208's.
I know this from some 30 years ago in small Missionary Airlines in Tanzania, you had to tell your weight before or while booking, because that way they decided the additional payload they could carry on their Cessna :)
My wife and I both worked on the ground for a logistics company. I worked loading the cargo totes, she worked weight and balance. Each tote was weighed and reserved a specific spot for that aircraft. Granted, we only worked cargo only planes, as that was our company's contract. The idea of passengers having a weight assigned to a seat sounds within reason for weight/balance safety. If say a third of your total passenger load was under125 lbs and was seated forward of the middle of the wing and 2/3 of the load was 250 or more seated to the aft of that line, you are immediately tail heavy unless compensated by cargo and luggage placement.
As a bigger person, I totally understand why weighing at the airport may be something people are anxious about. That said, larger people are less likely to take part in optional studies, and obesity is an issue in many countries. As someone who would be affected by this, I still feel it is worth possibly hurting a few feelings in the name of safety.
Call it like it is "FAT" the basic term ,it is the outer person not the inner
If I know it is anonymous, I would not have a problem with it.
Just give them incentives to do it. Like offer 5-25% off your flight if you weigh in. Offer less of a discount for heavier people and more of a discount for lighter people. Heavier people would feel less offended, since they're still getting some kind of discount no matter what they weigh.
My auto insurance did something similar to record my driving habits for 90 days. Being worse of a driver got you less of a discount compared to a better driver.
@@Hans-gb4mv if weight is a "shame" one has only shammed themselves..
I understand that people can feel self-conscious about their weight, and people are often treated rudely because of it. But if someone needs to know your weight purely for practical reasons, it seems unreasonable to take offense. And like, it's not as though before you stepped on the scales, the lady at the check-in thought you were a size 8, and it's not like they're judging anyway.
I've always wondered why they haven't done this already.
I once got a free first class upgrade. The flight was way under booked, and with so few passengers, they actually moved a few of us to the front of the plane. When I asked why, I was told "weight distribution". Something to do with the balance of folks in the front, and the folks in the back needing to help with the center of gravity.
Whatever the reason, I got free first class.
A plane that's nose heavy flies poorly. A plane that's tail heavy falls out of the sky.
It makes total sense ! I'm 73kg but I know the average weight of someone my age is between 90 and 100kg so if there were 183 passengers on a flight and all were varying weights those kgs can all quickly add up or even go the other way and you could save fuels, Perhaps, place the pads at the checking in desks and have this information automatically linked to the ticket for future use - or even use the data on our smartphones to link to an airline booking profile.
The problem with voluntary weighing is that the results will likely be skewed because it would likely be the heavier passengers who would avoid the scales. Presumably this could be factored into the results.
I tend to pack very light. Shouldn't I get some sort of discount or credit for being several pounds under-weight ?
And a bonus mini Mentour Pilot episode as well! amazing!
I've been asked my weight on a commercial flight before. I was flying cape air, which flies cessnas with about 10 seats. With that few passengers, "average" doesn't really work. The gate agents explained what was going on pretty well, so it didn't feel weird or anything and nobody else objected. They also weighed my bag.
For years Musket Cove Resort, on an island, just off Fiji was serviced by a local airline. They had flight schedules but it really operated as an on demand service -didn't matter what time your ticket said, front the check in counter and be directed to a plane waiting on the tarmac.............after you and your luggage were weighed.
Craft were Britten-Norman Islander carrying pilot and nine passengers. Only 20km from Nadi aiport to the island strip so just a matter of minutes and no nonsense about reaching a cruise altitude.
As an on demand service there were often spare seats. They also carried supplies for the resort restaurant. The pilot would allocate seats and, as often as not, the other seat in your row would be occupied by a bag of potatos, onions or some othe foodstuffs.
We thought it slightly amusing but very logical -getting the best trim for the flight and maximising the delivered load for the operating hours and fuel consumption.
As long as there is no visible printout I cannot imagine most people objecting. And if the airline makes it clear that weighing improves safety then people will not object. Frankly, going through screening is far more invasive than going on a scale with no readout. I wonder if weighing could be part of screening.
Phuk feelings...like ya cant tell by lookin a person is fat...just need to know how fat....for safety
You could implement weighing as a pressure plate at the check in desk, with the assistant pressing a record button once it was just the person on the plate. The computer then tallies the weight with the flight they've checked onto
Here is the thing, as shy as I am about my weight, I would rather be embarrassed about my weight then risk anyone else's life just because I am not as body positive as I probably should be.
It doesn't have to be done in public after all. A separated part in the airport shouldn't be an issue.
Ono... the Weight of 1050N I have
I highly doubt you are so overweight that it compromises the planes safety.
My son and I were weighed for a quick flight in a de Havilland Dragon Rapide. Passengers were directed to fill the seats from the back to keep the tail down😊