Ancient Greek State Politics and Diplomacy
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- Опубликовано: 1 июл 2020
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Kings and Generals historical animated documentary series on the ancient civilizations continues with a video on the Ancient Greek state forms. The mainstream idea of the Ancient Greek state is a city-state - a polis, but that was hardly the only form of polity the Greeks lived under. This video will cover the various Leagues and Federations and how they were formed and how the great states like Athens, Sparta, Macedon and Thebes interacted within them forming their hegemonies.
Support us on Patreon: / kingsandgenerals or Paypal: paypal.me/kingsandgenerals or by joining the youtube membership: / @kingsandgenerals We are grateful to our patrons and sponsors, who made this video possible: docs.google.com/document/d/1o...
The video was made by our friend András Szente-Dzsida while the script was researched and written by Johan Melhus
This video was narrated by Officially Devin ( / @offydgg & / @gameworldnarratives )
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Production Music courtesy of Epidemic Sound: www.epidemicsound.com
#Documentary #AncientGreece #Macedon
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Thanks for doing this K&G. I've been asking for this vid for a while.
love your content bro
Lovely work but yet again....
Dont mislead your viewers.
Greece mainly colonised Asia Minor.
And I say this cause lately the Turkish propaganda claim otherwise.
Can't wait to take one of the Warhammer 40k tanks out for a spin.
Best channel ever love the graphics and everything keep making these videos your the best. Just interested, what type of editors do you guys use.
Hello, I am the writer and researcher for the video, I hope you enjoy it!
The sources used for the video are: Greek federal states by J. A. O Larsen and Federalism in Greek Antiquity by Beck and Funke
thank you mate!
Thank you for all that you do!
Trully amazing work, one notice though, the word "koina" is pronounced as "kiná" and it actually means "commons" in ancient and modern greek.
Wow you guys so much work for us thanks for that.
@Johan M What type of editor did you guys use?
It seems that one state becoming a dominant power after leading a struggle against another great power is a common scene in history.
Nature abhors a (power) vacuum
And of course repeating the cycle of self-justified conquest and colonization.
Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it
@@dojokonojo second this
@@LorolinAstori yet those who know are doomed not to be able to do anything about it
See the title: Ancient Greek Leagues
See the animated thumbnail: Tanks flying everywhere
...OK
Spoiled.
Me: Kings and Generals, how many series do you want to start?
Kings and Generals: Yes
It’s kinda frustrating tbh they’re good videos no doubt but it’s just too much yknow
This isn't a new series.
@@weirdofromhalo I suppose not, but my statement still applies.
Yeah i wish they would smash out a series before starting a new one, but they are clever as they know we will all hang around and keep an eye out for the next 'episode' in whatever part of history were following.
I was expecting a reference to the "Panhellenic idea". Many ancients Greeks write and support the unification of all Greeks. It was supported by Gorgias, Issocrates, Aristotle, Jason of Pherae, Dionysius I of Syracuse and Phillip II. While other were against it, such as Demosthenes
correct
Demosthenes feared a loss of power. He also wrote some propaganda, calling the Macedons "Barbarians".
@@Gentleman...Driver Demosthenes with 4 speeches managed to convicted Athenians to start war with Macedonia. He fought himself in the Battle of Chaeronea (338 BC).
It actually happened with Philip's and Alexander's Hellenic league
@MEDAURIN god of war Romans named the greeks "greeks" you know, and that's why it stayed that way for the rest of the western world, only greeks and 3-4 eastern (east of greece) nations use the name "Hellenes" and "Hellas" each with a linguistic variation ofc to this day. And the funny thing is most of the eastern world calls greeks "Yunan" (or again with variations) which would translate to "Ionians" and tbh it sounds more legit, where as the term "Greece" and "Greeks" is found nowhere in ancient "Greece".
I say funny thing because the western world is supposed to be built as a continuity to the civilization of ancient Greece.
In the ancient Greek world, a polis could be referred to any city, town or village. It included a settlement and the surrounding land it controlled. The city states either remained independent, grouped together into leagues by mutual interests or were forced to join them through coercion or intimidation.
After the decline of central control and collapse of the Mycenaean Empire in the 12th century BCE, the Greek world entered a chaotic period of nomadic migrations, invasions and fragmentation, as a result the ancient Greeks were very divided and subdivided. But they created for themselves a world like no other, a world where each city state had its own unique (and often fantastic) culture.
Greece has such a diverse, flourishing and ancient history! Respect to Greece from India.
there's a lot of uncertainty about the period followed the collapse of Mycenaean civilization. Actually we know almost NOTHING. The most amazing mysterio is the fact that after a blank period all of a sudden appeared an new alphabet , an unbelievable perfect language , and so much wisdom.. I believe we miss a tremendous important part of the puzzle .
@Chaudhry Vikrant ror ik brother, we were very strong as well. I was just giving credit to Greece as they influenced western civilization and Europe, just like we influenced eastern civilization and South/South-East Asia
@Chaudhry Vikrant ror are there actually clear evidences for Alexander being defeated in India? I have recently read a lot about his conquest and there are only exclusively Indian people one the internet who are claiming that.
Polis - singular
Poleis - plural
enough of this pedantry or I'll .... call the police!
Poli-singular
@@panosbravakis860 nnnnnope. Croesus is right.
@@panosbravakis860 it's the ancient greek, not modern
@@3SLBK And in modern to... because modern and ancient greek are very similar
THANK YOU. This is why this channel is great. You know that in order to understand the history you also need to understand the underlying political systems. Kudos to you
I'm worldbuilding a low fantasy universe largely inspired by ancient Europe. especially Greece, so this is super useful!
@Somali Kid Well, people had a thing for knights in shining armor for a very long time, so that's one reason. Only now, in recent years has fantasy started to get more innovative and diverse.
So does ethnicity comes from the Greek word Ethnos?
Yes that is correct 👍
Yes and it is connected to the word Ethics also, as people of the same Ethnos have common ethics.
@@spiritusIRATUS We have, we actually have even more concepts than English see εθνικότητα, ιθαγένεια, υπηκοότητα, φυλή, γένος, ημεδαπότητα ...
@@aokiaoki4238 I'm not sure about that. Ethos from greek ήθος
Ethnos from greek έθνος.
Complitly different words even their routes don't match
@@stratilatis8562 Etymologically are connected. Έθνος is what Nation is in English, Ethnicity in English is meant ιθαγένεια. There is no word or legal concept in Enlgish for ημεδαπότητα for example. In Greek you may have the Εθνικότητα (nationality) and the ημεδαπότητα ( live were you were born) but not the ιθαγένεια(ethnicity). Or you may have Εθνικότητα (nationality) and the ιθαγένεια(ethnicity) but not the ημεδαπότητα ( you were born somewhere else)
Hellene from Thessaly here. Love your videos.
Lariseos?
@@trashaccount8859 yeah
If one of these cities is razed by the others, can we say that they defound the polis?
yes tse they would
Hahaha
I'm being lazy saying this but whenever I play rome total war 2 I would always occupy than subjugate or raze any cities I just conquered. I dont see much benefit or understanding of razing a city.
@@Vandelberger thank you! that makes sense. I've been playing easy mode because the game takes over 20 hours I swear.
That's a great avatar
how can people dislike this? its not even controversial, its just a documentary
mostly because they don't list their sources so fact checking is quite hard
Whilst sources would be good, ancient sources are not 100% anyway. Like the accounts of the battle of Thermopylae state more than 10x the actual number of soldiers I believe. But there’s no other proof than herodotus. Ancient historians just conclude the largest army Xerxes could possibly assemble.
Ares I think we are more interested in the scholarly sources for the video, not the primary or secondary sources. I wouldn’t really trust anything anyone said just by citing ancient sources because people spend years in school learning how to actually interpret and understand sources and those interpretations are generally peer reviewed. Usually the lead researcher will post a comment stating the scholarly sources used for the video.
it was a little boring compared to other videos they have done.
Because this video offended me xD
Its cool to hear The Epitaph of Seikilos being played near the end.
It’s from the Civilization VI music for Greece (also based on the Epitaph of Seikilos), I think, though their music otherwise seems to be from Epidemic Sound.
Another wonderful content. Liked it very much. Greeks are so awesome that no matter what you know about the Greeks and Greek culture, you still have a lot to learn.
British East India Company Yea but true history ‼️‼️‼️
@@vesnanuspahic7510 this is the pattern of a flag not the history of a people (history, culture, civilization, language etc). they are two different things.
in your way of thought, france romania and italy are the same because they use the same flag pattern in other colours or russians and hollandese are the same because they use the same pattern in different colours. you must be very stupid not to understand what you told.
Interesting fact : In Athens , every adult male citizen had the responsibility to participate in the politics , so that the democratic City-State could take decisions. It was illegal for free men to abstain from the discussions and from the voting. Because some men didn't participate in democracy , Athens hired Macedonians (Macedonian "Μακεδόνας" means long-tall. Macedonians were known for being tall and strong. ) to form some kind of "police". Their job was to seek for abstaining men and lead them to the agora (they could use force if needed). Those that were forced to attend were called "Ιδιώτες" (idiotes) meaning "those who care only for themselves". This "title" was in fact so humiliating , that nowadays "idiot" means stupid. So , in Ancient Athens , Democracy was so important that they literally had "police officers" to force everyone to the agora and anyone who tried to abstain was considered stupid.
Good video! It gives an insight into Greek culture. Love from India!
Also Greece has such a rich and ancient history. Certainly something to be proud of.
Tu odia Ki re
@@shraddhariut5393 Ha kemiti janilo
Kings and Generals, lately you're spoiling us Greeks. Keep it up!
@Gonzalo Araujo By "spoiling us", I mean, the channel excessively gratifies our wish to hear about historic events that happened in our land. And by "us" i mean - of course - the modern Greeks. Are we allowed to like learning about the ancient Greeks' history, your majesty?
you Greeks have been spoiled enough. You need to be put in your place. The Consuls are on the way. Tremble, o Athenian!
Funny fact, Spartans had huge iron coins so they can't have and carry many of them
Yeah it was to make hoarding vast amounts of money undesirable as iron would be very heavy to carry around, one cannot flaunt their wealth without also being weighed down by it.
"Koinon" refers to the League itself, not a monetary unit....
@@NobleKorhedron Koinon means common. It can be referred to many things
I thought they were strips of leather to discourage the use of gold.
3:47 Ethnos (Έθνος) = Nation . Greeks gave the first definition of that word
I mean, I don't think the concept was never used before. It's just the word english speakers use to convey the idea.
I love this channel. Always spot on! Look forward to each new video! Thanks Kings and Generals
Fantastic content. Well done all around. This is why you've got 1.32M subscribers.
One of the best channels on RUclips. Thank you.
I like that you are doing many videos for Greece recently. Nice vid
Please refrain from using spurious omega's and Greek sigma's for 'O' and 'E' characters. It makes the Greek alphabet look like a novelty item, and distances the Latin alphabet user from it by alienating them from the similarities between the two.
It would be of great help to write Greek and Latin in parallel instead, as it can help people pick up some rudimentary Greek, and promote its-however limited-usage.
This documentary explores a subject that is hardly touched in popular history and goes into great detail on the organization and management of the leagues.
Great video guys. Glad to see you guys doing so well.
I am an early subscriber and a lover of history. Please continuethe good quality and don’t focus on views. I have been watching since the battle of al qaddisheah. Thanks good job
The art and design in these is so good. Looks fun to do.
I could spend ages poring over the multitudes of modern derivations of Greek concepts, constructs and institutions. Koinon/Community; Polis/City; Ethnos/Nation - I love how our past illuminates our present.
Hey man. We did it by asking in the comments section.
Sir please reply me.
Who is use battles graphic ??
Who is software use???
Yeah, but I'm not making any money off it, so why should I care? : )
You guys should do a detailed mini-series of the Peloponnesian War next. It may be overdone but most documentaries and books gloss over it, only focusing on key events and people without too much real context. You guys have done most of the key episodes around it so you might as well.
You could even team up with HistoriaCivilis, who is the strongest on ancient political/military context but does not seem to have the time or the resources to dedicate to create videos on drawn out episodes in history. You would be a very strong team.
Great work, as always. Looking forward to more Roman economic episodes!
I find Mycenaean Greece much more facinating. Bronze age nations were so advanced, its baffling to me to try to understand how many times our civilizations have rised and fallen. Mycenaean had toilets, sewers, hot water etc.
Minoans propably had that too.
I found my dna match with some minoan skeletons recently and i start reading some things about them, they even had water treatment devices and water came in their towns with aqueducts.
Very interesting Fellas, thanks!
6:18 in modern Greek Bouli (βουλή) is the parlement
Ancient Greece was different than modern, for sure.
Despite its unwieldy size, the 500-member Boule was actually the executive. The legislature were all the citizens (ie not women, children, or slaves) in direct democracy. Specific offices were appointed, but they would be more akin to a mix between modern day civil servants (well, spoils-day civil servants at least) and US-style cabinet secretaries.
Be interesting if modern Greece were to become the Greek League and have all city-states confederate with it, with direct democracy (but with universal suffrage) at the polis level. Everybody copied the british or american system, though others have perfected it (eg sweden, germany, new zealand).
@@user-nf9xc7ww7m I meant the word. In modern Greek the word Bouli means parlement. Bro, I'm Greek. Do you really think that I wouldn't know that. It's my country's history.
This was a great n informative video. And a nice insight into what Greece was like at this time. My compliments to all those who made this video a reality.
Man, mishearing "Phocian League" really made my day!
Yeah lol made me wanna join xd
They need do a whole video on the history of the Phocian League
Awesome as always
Αt 2:15 we see the ancient symbol for the panhellenic socialist movement aka ΠΑΣΟΚ.
Χχαχαχα
Ο ηλιος ο πρασινος ο ηλιος που ανατελει!
Το ΠΑΣΟΚ το ορθοδοξο υπαρχει απο την αρχαιοτητα, ξυπνατεεεε XD
1:47 to skip the World of Tanks ad
Nice overview of the city states. Hope to see moore videos of them (if possible Athens or Sparta).
I wish the sources were added to the video description, it would make a lot easier to look more into this topic. i'm have no interest in specialize myself in ancient history nor the greek, but I really like the subject and would appreciate if you guys could do that in the future videos
Can you make a video about the sacred wars? they are fascinating!
Nice history video talking about policy interfering among several parts of one league's 👍👏🏾👏🏾🌟
I'd love to learn more about what led to the rise in population in the 8th cent. bce, and what caused the decline in the Spartan population that led to the end to their hegemony.
I responded to one post concerning the pronunciation of οι, but I'm seeing so many other posts bringing it up that I'll make a general post. So basically, οι was originally pronounced like the narrator pronounced it, "oi". It eventually began to pronounced the same way as the ancient υ (like the German "ü") with this happening between the third century BC and third century AD. That pronunciation lasted until around AD 1000, when both οι and υ transitioned, along with several Greek vowels like η, ει, and υι (which all originally had their own pronunciations) to the modern pronunciation of "i". So, pronouncing οι as "oi" is correct for the time frame that the narrator is describing, as οι only began to be pronounced as "i" after AD 1000 or so. For more detail on this, have fun in the "Diachronic phonetic description" section of the following article: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koine_Greek_phonology
It’s like shouting into the wind. I’m not sure why modern Greek speakers are so adamant that the language hasn’t changed in 2000+ years (a linguistic impossibility for a spoken language) and some here even openly denounce the Erasmian model.
Well thank you for the vid I will now go back and play some EBII Koinon Hellenon, This is too tempting :)
Yes thanks for these videos makes me proud of my heritage
As a Greek , I really appreciate when non-Greeks take the time to learn about our history . I would like to congratulate this channel for explaining it so accurately . But I would also like to point out a small but crucial language mistake , there are some letter combinations in Greek which make a different sound from what it looks like. For example ... "Koina" is pronounced Kiná and not as it looks like. The following letters when combined make this sounds : o+i= i , a+i= ae , o+u= ooo (u).
Respectfully , Greek viewer
These only apply to the modern Greek pronunciation. In ancient Greek it was actually as the narrator pronounced.
As is the case with English, ancient Greek sounds much different from modern Greek despite being ostensibly the same language.
@@Skeloperch well i think i will have to prove you wrong because when i learn ancient Greek phonetically speacking the pronunciation was the same with the ancient Greek and modern Greek ... is something was pronounced differently it was evident in writing ... and the explanation is simple really
@@monkey_ona_donkey6272 Where did you learn about ancient greek phonetics? I guess you are a Greek having learnt the ancient language as a course in Gymnasium, where they only teach the basics and the rules of declination, nothing about phonetics. The pronunciation was really different 2000 years ago. The best example I can give you is "υ", which was pronounced as "hι", something that got transferred to latin and later to other languages. Words like "hydra","hyper" etc, but originally with "ι" instead of "αϊ" sound
@@godnkls And where did you learn ancient Greek phonetics? Were you taught by the Euboean colonists in the bay of Naples? The idea that ancient Greek did not have dipthongs and this feature was picked up along the way for whatever reason is absurd.
Please do more of Caesar,I’m so interested.
Thanks
cool new map style!
"God why is everything so political these days?"
Greeks:
Good video 👍
I live in Greece and I believe that we even now have the disadvantage to love our land(city) and press our local interests before the interest of the state,you can found politicians and common people that they only care about developing their local interests inspite of the common good of the state, that's the true problem that keeps Greece behind and corrupted
A small correction all the Greeks belong to the same ethnos(έθνος) which means nation but there were smaller groups called fillo(φύλο) which means something like tribe.
That’s not always the case; ἔθνος has a semantic range. Thucydides, for example, uses it on several occasions to refer to different groups of people from the same geographic area in Greece (e.g. 5.52 Ἡρακλεώταις τοῖς ἐν Τραχῖνι μάχη ἐγένετο πρὸς Αἰνιᾶνας καὶ Δόλοπας καὶ Μηλιᾶς καὶ Θεσσαλῶν τινάς.
προσοικοῦντα γὰρ τὰ ἔθνη ταῦτα τῇ πόλει πολέμια ἦν: οὐ γὰρ ἐπ’ ἄλλῃ τινὶ γῇ ἢ τῇ τούτων τὸ χωρίον ἐτειχίσθη.)
They knew that they were all Hellenes, but i am not sure if they called that ethnos.
As a history grad student, this was helpful. :)
This is interesting. Some political concepts of the West civilization came from Ancient Greek like federation and alliance.
Yes, because diplomatic concepts only arose from a singular civilization, and definitely weren't developed independently across the world and at different times...
You guys deserve your own Netflix series..
I've been falling asleep to so many of these that i had a dream last night where i was in a pub with a friend and this guys voice came on and it was on a t.v. in there. and i would enter different parts of town and randomly start hearing him narrating, or a person break out into a narration channeling his voice
Seeing as how Kings and Generals is sponsored by Imperator: Rome (amongst others) it would be cool to see the various types of Greek leagues represented in that game as well! Its actually quite similar to some of the Stellaris federations.
It will be a paid DLC knowing PDX
Hi Kings and Generals, another great video, could guys kindly provided the names or some links to the music you use? Thank you and have a good day.
I love The vid !
Great improvement pronunciation-wise! Pronouncing kappa as a k. Much better.
Cant get over that he used the civ 6 sound track as back round music. It works nicely but all i can picture is civ 6
Thanks
Nice story of the Ancient Greek Leagues.
Emperor Hadrian, years later, also attempted to unite the Greeks under the Roman banner. I believe that was also in the form of a League.
Thank you
K&G , please make a serie about the byzantine macedonian and Komnenian renaissance !!
Just letting the creator know that the amount of knowledge that I gain from watching his videos is far more than what my history books have taught..
I have tried reading about this but never understood so, when we talk about ancient greeks before it became a roman state, it's the people, not the empire or kingdom, right? Or were these city-states part of a single federation?
Like the leagues mentioned were still independent but was there a superstate? Like during the Greco Persian war, it was Greece against Persians.
3:46 That must be where the word ethnicity and ethnic come from.
Greetings from athens!You never disappointed us for another video!
Make one on Indus civilization
Please make an episode about the pelopenisian war
"When we learn about in school."
We don't learn 98% of what this channel teaches in school... and I love you for that.
In certain ways Sparta had more rights then Athens. For example women could own property in Sparta while not in Athens.
Ouch...
@@kafon6368 hahaha! give her the boot! : )
I want to know which city-state had pride parades🏳️🌈🎉🎊, open transgender & transracial folks🏁, no slavery🏴☠️, and universal suffrage🏳.
🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗
[Citizens vote to exile me]👨👩👦👦👨👧👨👩👧👧👨👦👦👨👩👦👦👩👧👧👩👧👩👧👧👨👧👨👩👦
@@user-nf9xc7ww7m Well, the Thebans were ok on things like gay pride. e.g. the so called "sacred band".
Also had a slave based economy
Πολις with "ι" is for one city, Πολεις is plural. Ι think the use in the beginning of the video is for one city if i understand right, so was wrong. Thanks again for your videos. I m not telling this because of the Greek content, i love history in general, but especially military history. And i love to watch things from other countries and periods so i learn something more.
I’m so thankful that i found this channel some time ago it was all I ever wanted exactly the way i wanted it never stop making videos!
I hear that Imperator: Rome music in the intro.
Oddly Kings and Generals never credits the video game music they use....
Amazing channel I'm always looking forward to your uploads, keep it up 💯
Next up for your videos! = ideas as follow ups.
Ancient Roman state politics and diplomacy
Ancient + Medieval Byzantine state politics and diplomacy
Ancient + Medieval Chinese state politics and diplomacy.
Will we ever get a Phoenician version of this?
Or something about the Phoenician world and sphere
That popping sound made me check if I had Slack still open, despite the fact the business hours for me were over at the time. Real creepy.
Do a video on the view of Rome by the recent conquered Greeks.
Hey I have a question at @3:30 it has very small letters I heard italian but it reads something like haetallian not sure if I'm reading that right cuz it's so small on my screen how is that spelled? When I search what I typed it doesn't pull up anything... Are those the same people that founded rome? Are they related to the etruscans? Do they have any relation to the tribe of ramnes?
Good civilization 5 music 😉
Hello,
its a nice video, keep up the good work.
But if you could get me the script so i can read it while i can listen to you. it would be very helpful for me.
I love these kind of videos but I feel the need to point this out. People need to stop (at least when they write something about Greece) using the letter Σ as an E because Σ is the greek letter for S so every time I read texts like these I feel like my eyes are gonna pop out trying to make sense of them.
Finally a favorite content of mine thanks god 🙏🙄
I was waiting for your comment my dear apprentice. So......Mehmet....in which cave your ancestors were.....when we were building the Parthenon and a couple of Ancient Wonders...?
@@stefanoslyras1187 why being so bad at him he did not said nothing bad to you.
@@user-ls3tl2vm7s exactly my Fellow Greek. He was sarcastic with others things to begin with
Hey Patric Stewart, whens the next stream
Hellen from the ORIGINAL GREEK MACEDONIA here!!!
Come on, give us the 30 years war finale already!!!! We need the ending!!!!
Love your work, however ;
How come Corinth was destroyed by "the romans", whereas Thebes is still standing it's ground (in the last map You showed) after being tear down by Alexaner the 3rd ?
Cassander one of Alexander's generals ruled Macedonia after Alexander's death and killed his child, wife and mother. He was the only one of the Diodochi to try distance himself from Alexander and rebuilt Thebes to gain favor with greece by appearing generous.
I am greek and i don't know how much wars my ancestors have make and they have fight each other.
have how the city states declare war been coverd here ? Just a random thought I had hmm I guess I will having a good long read then :D If I cant find any here
ha?
4:28 Fuckin league lmfao
I spat my coffee when I heard it
The Greeks could rule the world...Alexander did. He took a Greek army to the far Indus,the was nothing left to conquer ...anyone ?
The known world of time yes, Greeks carried their power, traditions at time to far India and rest territories
Rome total war reference
@@njbatoto9338 you sir , are a man of culture.
But Alexander is dead...his empire is gone. And so we live in evil days. The free men of Greece have turned on each other instead of their proper enemies, those who envy all the Greeks have done!
...perhaps its time to another Greek to conquer the world, perhaps... best intro ever
Hello from Macedonia, Greece🇬🇷❤
(Alexander is Greek)
(That's a given , no point in addressing this fact)
@@christermi indeed
Actually, if I look at some completely biased sources, I can eventually find somewhere that Alexander wasn't Greek!
@@shudheshvelusamy7644 Really?Then how could they participate Olympic games?Only those who considered Greek could take part.
@@shudheshvelusamy7644 I guess Tito's sources correct?
Kesken videon= markku! Me ollaan uudelleen synnytty pingviineinä!