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Hey guys love the show. Could sales be declining because people today are more interested in buying used and getting more bang for your buck? Personally bought a 2006 Cbr for $3,000 because I live in Puerto Rico and something like a DRZ goes for $8,000 used and about $10,500 new. I would love something more practicall but couldn’t invest so much in a new bike
speaking of fun things you can spend 10 grand on, did you know that for kind of money you could buy a motorglider and literally fly around you're neighbourhood.
Modern bikes are not the cheap simple things they used to be. Dealership fees are crazy, insurance rates are even crazier. It feels like the world is trying to make bikers extinct.
Blame it on the people, blame it on ourselves not the manufacturers. Everybody wants the latest greatest shiny new thing to one up someone or themselves. The manufactures are doing what they’re told to survive.
@Evo Shift there's been 50% inflation since 2000, so $10k -> $15k. Usually new bikes like that are $16.5k, so I don't think the prices have gone too crazy
@Evo Shift Bikes have improved however most of the improvement is in the weight, performance, and technology. Also as a owner of a said 1K sport bike which is a 2018 model, I have rode bikes that are 10-15 years old and they just don't act the same. Every liter bike now has ABS and traction control at least. My bike has a Bosh IMU (lean angle sensor), ABS, traction control, cruise control, anti wheelie, quickershift, and downshift blipper. However my friend's FZ1 doesn't have even half of that. Do I need it? No I can handle my bike fine because I don't have the anti wheelie on and traction control is set at 1 out of 8 just in case I start to slide too much. I enjoy both my bike and my friends but he's wanting something that has more convenience. That's what really sells some bikes. Its easy to just get on the interstate and put the cruise control on while heading to the hills. As for prices as @Nolan Luckett said inflation has caused most of that some of it is because of all the extras they add. People still think I'm crazy for spending 15k on mine from the showroom floor but it's what I love. If you want it that bad you'll find a way to get it.
Dealers in Tampa charge a $299 Predelivery Service charge, $1,598 Freight and set-up charge, and reconditioning charges, this is ON TOP of the actual price.
I retired a couple of years ago and at 71 became the owner of a motorcycle for the first time in my life. Previously I did not have time to even think about riding. I have a Suzuki TS250x and love it. In the past year I've ridden over 3000 miles, and that is just tooling around town. As a new rider I am still developing sills. I do have my eye on a new SV650, but I feel lucky to have what I have and be able to ride.
As an expat Englishman living in Indonesia I can see the two sides of the issues raised. By the way Lemmy you are welcome to come here and stay and try the bike culture here for yourself anytime. Here people ride bikes because they are poor, and cars are expensive. They are not "bikers". They ride badly. I had never been scared riding a bike before I lived here. The bike is simply the thing they are on to get them from A to B, or to carry something too big or too heavy to move any other way. Wardrobes, beds, and piles of boxes, as well as three four or five people are quite normal here. They ride small bikes because of cost. There is a premium on prices once you go hit 200cc. Autimatics are the norm, because they are easy to ride. I have been riding bikes since the 1980s in the UK, I am a 365 days a year rider, come rain, come, snow. What has changed in the Western world is our ecomomics. My father back in the 1930's, 40's, and 50's rode a bike because he could not afford a car. Back then everyone rode a motorbike. I they got married and had a kid they got a sidecar. Everyone aspired to car ownership. We got our first car in the late 60's and that was a very seconhand Standard Vanguard. I don't easily identify with the RUclipsrs who Vlog. Most of them avoid rain, avoid cold. A bike is criticised for a lack of heated grips, cruise controls, or fuel guage. The bike has become a toy. It is male jewelery and is only there to display more bling. They ride at weekends, if it is dry and warm. You cannot turn the clock back. In Western countries the sales will follow economic downturns and upswings because the bike is a luxury item now. Here in Asia and elsewhere the bike is, at least for the moment an essential like water, gas and food. Familes have two or three bikes. This is changing, there are more cars, and I see more "aspirational" bikes appearing in the market place. Love this series. Look forward to its return. Keep up the good work. Ride Safe. Stephen Cartwright
I love this comment but I disagree that the West has made bike into a luxury toy forever. I think the pandemic and car shortages and inflation etc etc is starting to bring some of that "ride 2 wheels because of poverty" back to the United States. Scooters are becoming terrifyingly more popular and theyre ridden by people who obviously have no idea what counter-steering is. I think the Western world's "middle class" has been very gradually depleted over the course of the last 5 or so decades and we are headed back to a time where the poorest among us ride 2 wheels because we have to, not want to. I think the OEMs have not caught on yet. I think this will show up most visibly in sprawl cities like Los Angles and Atlanta.
I live and ride in japan, and I’d say it’s somewhere in the middle here. Anything less than 125cc is generally considered to be practical cheap transportations; anything above is considered to be expensive toys (for the most part) I commute on my 250cc Honda Rebel every day though👍 Hbu bud? Do ya use your bike as a transportation wherever you live or is it a toy for ya?
Amen. My 2 Ninja 300 was $8000 at our Kawasaki dealership brand new, got it for half that a couple years later in effectively the same condition. Would never buy from a dealership unless I wanted a specific bike no ifs, ands, or buts and couldn't find one used.
Sales probably down cause we live in a (everything's too dangerous) county now. I hate the fact that a lot of people are afraid of motercycles. They are the best stress reliever I have found and couldn't imagine life without them.....oh definitely care about the industry and want to see it thrive. Even have a stupid Revzilla sticker on my truck...I'm in Utah and have noticed more bikes on the road since the new lane filtering law passed. Good job Utah.
I'd say distracted drivers have more to do than people being afraid motorcycles themselves. BUT, that has always been a part of riding. Being more observant than most drivers and understanding that you can't afford to be distracted.
I am so sick of strangers telling me how I should be careful because they know a guy who has a friend that crashed his bike... Happens all the time and I'm sick of it.
I’m 63 years old. I started riding dirt bikes when I was 12 and street bikes at 16. Not long after I got my drivers license I got a pilots license and an amateur radio license. When I wasn’t doing one of those activities I was playing my guitar. As far as I know, every one of those activities is seeing declines in sales and overall interest. I agree with all your reasons for the declining participation in motorcycling, but it’s not just bike sales. In addition to safety and financial concerns I think a lot of younger people have gotten used to instant gratification and don’t want to put the time and effort required to become proficient to the point at which it becomes enjoyable. As far as bringing new blood into the sport of motorcycling, the additional obstacle we face is safety. A few years ago my now 28 year old son expressed an interest in learning to ride. It actually scared the hell out of me. I still ride almost everyday and enjoy every minute I’m on a bike but I think a little more each year about the consequences of an accident. I hope I know when it’s time to hang it up but I know I’ll dread that day.
Pilot, guitarist, radio operator, and motorcycle enthusiast..... when did you have time to have a kid? lol Jokes aside, my 8yo wants to ride and I feel the same way..... I don't think twice about my own safety (even though I have crashed several times and avoided numerous more crashes) but I worry about my son riding. I'm going to teach him to be smarter than me on a motor.
Or more depending on the bike. Cruisers’ insurance is cheap sport bikes are super expensive. Younger riders are drawn to the sexy, fast sport bikes with super expensive insurance rates that they can’t afford. But they won’t ride the cruisers with cheap rates because they’re not cool, or are for old people. Or the only cool cruisers are Harley’s that are stupid expensive... either the bike is too expensive or the insurance is. Harley needs to drop their prices or we need to change the image of import cruisers. We can’t really drop the insurance rates of the sport bike.
@@thinkingoutloud9126 Let's be honest, if you want a cruiser you probably want a Harley. Otherwise you'd be the guy who's not sure whether to hang out with Harleys or Japanese sport bikes. I'm not really into cruisers but if I had the option to own multiple bikes and wanted a cruiser, I'd probably go with a Harley.
The cash issue is significant. I won my bike in a raffle, but have been struggling to even pay for the necessary upkeep because of other more practical financial issues: a kitchen remodel, electrical work that we need done, an upcoming need for a new mattress, upcoming vacation trip with the wife, etc. Even cheaper hobbies like my vinyl listening have taken a huge hit due to both limited finances and time. And all of this is AFTER I finally caught up from years in a debt hole as an employed Gen-Xer. I can't even being to imagine how most Millennials might begin to comprehend affording something like a bike. Hell, my wife and I gave up on the idea of having kids a few years back because we knew we'd never be able to adequately provide for one. I don't think that bikes in themselves are the problem (though improved reliability does help reduce the need to buy new). Modern economic realities are the real killer. The large used market should be kept in mind as well.
Hit the nail right on the head brother. The only reason I was able to afford a motorcycle as an 18 yr old is because I was able to secure a relatively high paying job (23 an hour) working in construction for the summer. Now if I had bills (which thankfully my family can still cover for me) I definitely wouldn't have been able to do it. The housing market and price of living is just too damn high to afford "toys" like motorcycles. In fact I only got one because my family can't afford to buy me a car for college, so I got a bike (much cheaper)
@@alexslaydon5589 exactly. My son who is about to start univeristy next year is getting (actually alreadys has) a brand new duke 200 which he is about to get his license and learn to ride because we cant afford to get him a car. The cost of registration and insurance as well as running costs for the duke 200 is significantly cheaper then even a small 4 cyclinder car. The cost of living and spiralling debt we get ourselves into these days by getting a home loan and as Spurg said all the other things we now have like mobile phones and the plans we get for them, getting the latest TV, video games and consoles and other technology that are constantly evolving and changing sometimes forces us to upgrade (mobile phones and computers are a classic example) which in turn makes it virtually impossible for someone on a low income to go purchase a new motorcycle. As cities get larger and more congested people tend to opt for public transport too which is cheap. Kids these days are more interested in technology rather then getting out and enjoying the outdoors or riding a motorcycle. Times are changing as are the attitudes of kids but at some point I do believe there will be cycle change again particularly as technology becomes more advanced and sophisticated in things like cars and motorcycles. As things become cool again we will see a change in attitudes. Things come and go all the time. Just look at how popular retro gaming has become again with all the mini consoles that have come out and the new ones coming out later this year. Same thing will happen to motorcycles at some point especially if companies can lower the price point so the majority of lower income earners can afford one. One of the biggest issues facing motorcyclists too is the fact so many cages use their mobile phones while driving which has caused a significant increase in accidents. That plays on the minds of just about everyone these days (motorcyclists included) and so they fear getting on a motorcycle and parents are too scared and avoid encouraging their kids to get on one for that very reason.
Good points, but it sounds like you need to step up your financial game and find a career that can remedy a lot of those issues. That's what I had to do. I took two steps back, and sacrificed a lot of shit to get where I am today, and at the age of 47, I can pretty much get any motorcycle I want. Not bragging, but the World does not meet anyone halfway. Earn it ese.
Jim Beam For a single 22 year old 6 grand a month is more than enough, thats 72 grand a year which is more than what the average family earns in a year lol.
I care. It drives me crazy that the industry has just chased boomers and their good credit my entire adult life. Motorcycling is one of the most fun things you can do, or at least we all think so, and yet multiple generations at this point have no idea because the industry never bothered to try to cultivate them. The industry would rather blame governments or the market itself rather than take a look in the mirror and ask "Have I done everything I could?"
That's an interesting statement because it's us boomers who were around when classic bikes were on showroom floors, and we boomers are the ones riding these classic bikes. I own a 1971 Suzuki TC 100 but with a strong TC185 motor, a 1978 SR500 bobber, and a modest little, cherry Honda CB125S. My favorite bikes I owned, of all time though include a Penton 175, Penton 250, and Penton 400. I betcha you maybe know what one of those are. We boomers also know the name Maico, Ossa,, and Bultaco, all of which are better than the plastic computer crap on today's showroom floor.
@@johnjriggsarchery2457 I think what Thomas was trying to say is that the newer generation of bikers need bikes they can afford to ride. Classic looking bikes are expensive now and millennials cannot compete with their dollars against boomer dollars to buy them. I think a big reason why young riders go for sport bikes and nakeds is because those segments are priced more to millennials' purchasing power. Ask yourself how often do you see old guys on a Honda Grom?
If a company wants to sell a product, they advertise. The only time that you’ll see a Honda or Yamaha commercial is during a televised motocross race, if at all.
Yes. We see FREAKING KIA commercials @ the superbowl. But any motorcycle commersials? Nope... Honda needs another Nice campaign on a major platform again
From a "young person's" point of view, I will say that the best way to appeal to my age group is to highlight the affordability and practically side of things (but be honest about the impractically as well). I recently bought a 2016 CBR300R since I will be going to college in a few months. It was cheap, has so far been super reliable compared to the other shitty used cars I've had (that would cost near the same as my bike), and the fuel economy is just amazing. We aren't so much concerned with buying a machine that puts out 150+ horsepower (though it is definitely on the to-do list for me) because in all honesty that is not a practical bike. It's a machine built and designed for racing. The majority of people my age just don't have the money nor desire to delve into motorcycling as a hobby. Anyway, that's my .02 on the matter 🤷♂️
I agree. For example, the service schedule on motorcycles is MUCH more intensive than a car, but that fact is hidden from the customer. If a service manual came with the bike and individuals were empowered by dealerships to maintain their motorcycles-and develop a deeper understanding of the bikes (they would need to be built in a way that facilitates this, naturally) rather than having valve adjustments, steering head service, chain and sprocket maintenance etc. coming as not only a surprise to new riders but a serious financial hardship when dealer fees are involved, then the manufacturers would more successfully build a solid customer base. The current model is exploitative of the consumer, and the new generation is NOT having it.
The used bike market is so lucrative that unless a dealership is offering some insane deals, you're way better off getting a 5 year old bike with 5k miles on it for half what it originally sold for. The average person just doesn't have 10 grand (on the low end) to spend on a new bike, and instead of spending 6-7k on a more budget friendly bike, you could get a low milage high quality bike that'll out perform that for 5k.
@@TheGnanubis Make sure you check the tire age on the sidewalls and tread life. Change all the fluids and replace the air filter, plugs, brakes, etc.. I'm sure a $600 bike needs at least half of those things! Stay safe and have fun
Companies could probably do a better job reaching a wider audience. Motorcycle lovers are gonna buy bikes, its just a matter of where. Many years ago people like Honda were making huge waves with stuff like the Super Cub though, by marketing it as a chill, convenient little bike that even your grandma could ride. I think if they stepped their game up and touted their lower-end CC bikes, show off bikes MPG which can be like 75MPG (crazy compared to the SUV's people are drawn to these days), plus how much less resources it takes to make bikes over cars, they'd draw more people in. I get that we are more safety concerned nowadays, but if we convinced like 10% of people to trade their cars for bikes, smog levels drop, traffic would greatly drop, and then you have more people seeing them on the road wondering what the fuss is about. If they started there first, I think from that they would lead more people to be interested in other aspects of two-wheeled shenanigans like pricier cruisers, hobby-ist dirt bikes, and sport bikes.
You all are too young to remember (probably not yet born), but the likely reason for the spike in 1973 was gas shortages due to the Arab oil embargo. There were long waiting lines at gas stations and often stations were out of gas. Lots of folks bought bikes just to get to work on the limited gas available.
Neo Smith I was 13 then, but remember it well. I have long wanted to see OPEC get their reward for that embargo and when we struck gas in PA, ND and other places as well as more oil, it has been fun to watch oil prices plunge and OPEC is pretty much powerless to respond now. Makes me smile.
LTVoyager, oh, dude. I hate to burst your bubble, but OPEC is *still* very much in control of oil prices. The countries which make up OPEC are still responsible for the *vast* majority of oil production in the world, and can collectively control whether there is a glut or dearth of crude oil on the market. In fact, while they routinely adjust their output to ensure that oil prices remain (mostly) stable, because it’s better for them economically to *not* run off their biggest consumers (e.g.: the US). The only thing preventing OPEC from creating gas shortages again, are: 1) The Strategic Oil Reserve (good for a few years at current consumption rates), and 2) their knowledge that a lot of countries would go hard-core into other energy sources if they did so. (Basically, it would be great for OPEC *short* term, and economic suicide *long* term. OPEC uses oil prices to apply pressure that prevents the US from doing things that are *too* blatantly stupid and harmful to the region, despite the fact that militarily and economically we completely outclass the entire region combined. If we were to suffer another oil embargo, our economy would be hit even worse than it was in the 70s, because we’re dependent on oil for so many more materials and products than we were at the time.
Theo Brinkman You made my point quite well. OPEC no longer can swing oil prices at a whim. It is constrained on many fronts now. 1. It is a smaller percentage of world oil production than it was 20+ years ago. 2. Oil prices are already below the level where many member nations can make the money they need to keep their population suppressed. If prices go much lower, their will be riots in many countries. 3. There are more alternatives to oil now than ever before, particularly NG in the US. So, OPEC certainly can influence oil prices, but they no longer really control them as they are constrained now on too many fronts. And it is a beautiful thing.
Reasonably healthy here in Thailand @ about 1.8 million a year with a population of about 60 million..... But 95% are basic, practical 1/8 litre scoots, that folks buy to get around on. My own ride is a 22 year-old, 100cc Honda Dream that has done 289,000 km (180,000 miles). Does an easy 50 - 55 mph (tops out @ 65) and gets better than 130 mpg(US). Frankly, few of of the high tech behemoths offered in the West would be of interest to me and most others here.
We need a big campaign to legalize lane sharing on the remaining states. Once those car owners stuck on traffic see the bikes filtering through and getting to their destination faster, a lot more people will opt to commute on two wheels. As it is right now, if there's heavy traffic, I rather take the car and enjoy some air conditioning.
Beerded Wanderer, you hit the nail on the head. Really, it’s a similar dynamic with bicycles. In some cities, people use them as primary transportation; but as a percentage of overall users, two-wheels are seen as toys/luxury items, not as viable transportation. I would add that the industry as a whole promoted that toy/luxury image for a long time.
@@beerdedwanderer agreed, but the flip side is that it seems incredible to me that people in non-splitting states even have motorcycles. Why would you? They're dangerous as hell and you have to sit in the weather waiting? They need to legalize lane sharing. Come on, big manufacturers, let's do some old fashioned political lobbying
Motorcycle culture in rest of the World is so much different than the the US. Bikes/Scooters are way of life in many countries, while it is a weekend hobby for people like me here in the US. I look forward to a Sunny Sunday all week long even if it is only a few hours of ride. In Paris, Rome, Bangkok or Delhi they ride rain or shine.
I'm not normally one to comment, but the last question of this HS/LS hit home for me. To explain my situation as a consumer (and a millenial): I grew up wanting a motorcycle pretty much as early as I can remember wanting really anything with a motor and wheels. My mom, however, didnt agree with that sentiment and I had to wait until buying my own house to get one... and now have been riding for several years. I would consider myself relatively abnormal as far as typical population goes in even wanting one. A big issue in America as a whole is practicality. Whether you live in a big city or a rural farmtown... a motorcycle simply and objectively isn't the best way to spend your money for either transportation or leisure unless you already have some sort of reasoning for wanting one. What good does a small motorcycle do you if you can't use it for your morning commute on the highway at 70mph... or if it's raining... or if you have a passenger or two... or maybe if you share a common fear that motorcycling is significantly more demanding and dangerous than any other form of transportation? A big motorcycle might solve some issues of usability, but that comes with significantly increased cost and even more deterring factors for entry. I feel like anyone looking from the outside-in is going to view motorcycling as something that wouldn't benefit them in the slightest, especially when considering the finite resource of leisure dollars to spend. On the topic of whether you should care about inspiring the interest of others "in the sport" as Spurg calls it is erroneous in its principle. Objectively, inspiring someone that would otherwise have no interest in motorcycling is, in my opinion, equivalent to telling someone they should start smoking cigarettes because they're so cool and relaxing. Like cigarettes, the hobby of motorcycling exposes the participant to greatly increased risk factors for injury and possibly death and this can't be ignored. The only people you could hope to and/or should care about attracting are already going to have an interest in motorcycling. The decline of motorcycle sales is to be expected as consumers shift away from desiring motor vehicles, particularly leisure motor vehicles, as a whole. Even the sentiment that you /need/ a particular product to enjoy an activity is an outdated way of thinking. Why buy a motorcycle to go trail riding when you can simply go for a hike? I'm not sure where the conclusion lies in all of this, so I'll leave that part up to anyone who would be kind enough to read my drabble and post a reply. Thank you all and ride safe!
Personally I’m just tired of the Harley crowds arrogance. I’ve sold my dyna and have bought 3 new dual sports this year and having more fun than I ever have. I just laugh at the fact now my old friends won’t wave at me on my KLR!! The cool Harley crowd is shrinking. My friend just bought a new heritage classic and said I should get a Harley again so we could ride??? Why isn’t it cool with that crowd to ride the KLR?? Harley crowd I’m out! Lol!!
Yep, always loved the idea of being open minded and able hand out with different crowds on my DRZ400SM supermoto rather than being tied to some sort of closed group who are too cool to even wave back. I have nothing against Harleys, I used to think they were "cool" but now it's just the mentality of the people I don't like.
In America a bike that does 0-60 in five seconds is so slow and underpowered that you can't ride one for more than a year before dying if boredom. In the rest of the world, people love that the same bike is cheap to buy, cheap to run, super reliable, faster than most cars on the road, and easier in traffic than a car. If you can't afford an expensive bike that is so powerful it burns through tires, brakes, and gas; and has short, expensive service intervals, but you refuse to be seen on a cheap, fuel efficient, practical bike then you won't buy many bikes. And that's the US market.
The problem with new bike sales is complex. It's partly price (BMW R1250GS over $20k), partly the fact that there is a huge used bike market, partly the fact that bike upkeep is ridiculously expensive, partly the fact that bikes are competing with so much more for people's attention (sport is far more popular than it used to be i.e. cycling, gym etc, electronics, travel, clothes, food and the internet) and partly increasing restrictions in terms of speed, power and emissions. Have a great summer, guys. I love your show. Cheers from Switzerland.
Well said. There is definitely multiple causation. I think it is indicative, also, of a shift in values of the general population. The electric bicycle/moped market is surging like crazy. Two wheeled travel isn't as much the issue as the various competing factors that you mentioned.
One thing I’ve never understood is why I never see a motorcycle commercial on tv, occasionally you see a Harley commercial during a sporting event and you see a dirt bike commercial during the super cross race. But you never stop seeing car commercials, beer commercials, etc. makes no sense to me
Yep, coming from India it was also a minor culture shock for me. Back there you'd always see the ads about the latest versions of their bikes during big cricket games (equivalent to football/ super bowl) and what not just as much as car commercials if not more. It was always exciting and since pretty much every adult rides there, I would chat with my dad about the specs and what not. After moving here my parents now they see bikes just like the westerners, "dangerous" and they even try to ignore the conversation, memories from back then every time I bring it up as if they never even existed.
Phillip w for me as well, but that’s because we are watching motorcycle videos, if you want to get new riders into the sport you would need to advertise to people who aren’t already interested.
I shy away from encouraging others to get onto a motorcycle. I've seen friends die, hell I even gave up riding myself for more than ten years but the itch to ride came back. I love riding and would gladly tell anyone who asks how much I enjoy it, but that doesn't mean I would promote it to others or assume that it's right for them. That's a decision they need to make on their own.
Insurance. Insurance rates for current gen sport bikes are just ridiculous. I recently came very close to pulling the trigger on a Panigale V4 and when I started searching for insurance everything fell apart. Spending 2-3k/year as a person that has never filed a claim to insure that bike is ridiculous. It's not even a cash flow issue. It's just a flagrantly wasteful way to spend 2-3k/year indefinitely. Motorcycle companies want to drive sales? Do something about what it costs to insure the bikes.
My roommate signed papers for a 959 Panigale on a saturday a few weeks ago. Came home and started getting insurance quotes and I had to help him pick his jaw up off the floor..... He terminated the deal and is still riding his 675:). 3-4 years of the insurance rates would have paid for the bike. Something is defiantly off there.
Get a standard/naked. The insurance is way cheaper because they do not classify them as a supersport. My 2018 Street Triple RS sets me back a whopping 500/year full coverage and that is with some tickets.
@@OregonMotorcycle Pretty much anyone over the age of 30. I have a sport bike and it just sits in my garage unless I do a track day which is maybe 3 times a year.
I work from a motorcycle, I commute on a motorcycle, I hobby on a motorcycle, I live motorcycles. If I hear one outside, somehow now I am outside. Once you get the fever you get it for life. Keep making these vids guys, talking bikes is my jam. Well done and much luv from Australia!!! Cheers m8....
Just curious in Australia how do motorcycle licenses work? Do you have to start with a 125cc or is it more like the states where once your licensed you can ride anything? Greetings from Virginia.
@@daynmitchell7543 Goes by displacement. I started on an R3, but some people started on a 500. You just check the Learner Approved Motorcycle Scheme (LAMS) website to check if your bike is learner legal.
All motorcycle/offroad atv's are all expensive, not everybody has the money nor the credit now a days. Cost of living has soared, rents have gone up, taxes have gone up as well.
I'm a millenial, and just bought a 2019 Yamaha MT09. But I've also been riding dirt bikes since I was knee high to a grasshopper, my current dirt bike being a YZ450F.
I'm more of a car guy than a motorcycle guy but if I'm right you can get some awesome bikes under 10k new right? Cuz 10k on a car isn't getting you shit unless it's used
Yeah, lots of amazing used bikes out there with very little miles for a fraction of new price. That's the main reason new sales are down. There is just a ton of great inventory from the pre08 boom.
@@TheFIREFLAME53 I get that but if a good used bike can be had for 5k like an sv650 or Idk Yamaha r3 why not pick up a part time job or even another full time one? Sounds crazy I know and I don't know your situation fully but there's lots of car guys that spend stupid amounts of money on their cars like 10-20k will get you a nice used sports car but for bikes thats brand new bike territory. As an outsider motorcycles guys seem cheaper than us car guys like I saw some guy say he wouldnt buy a panigalle because the insurance was 2-3k but for car guys that shit is pretty normal and it's seen as the price you pay for this crazy hobby.
There is a big hole y'all are just touching on. It's not just motorcycles. It's the whole economy. You have the majority of being shifted to the top 1% in the last 40 years. You have more and more tax burden falling on the middle class. Shrinking disposable income that would strengthen the economy. You 40 years of stagnant wages while productivity has been going up. The reason your higher priced motorcycles are dropping and dual sport is rising is because it's cheaper to have fun on. I ride a dual sport as my 9nly transportation because it's the only thing I can afford to use. If I could afford a new speed twin I would. People with families have to have the most practical cost effective modes of transport. If motorcycles are going to survive in our current economic direction they will have to be cheap and practical.
I agree with you but I think despite this people would still buy if we could lane split. I moved from California and its just annoying to try to commute on a bike. Everywhere else in the world has more people commuting on bikes.
@@raydavison2972 lol, as a transgirl who works as a webcam model on chaturbate and looking to start racing, I highly disagree with that bland assumption. Good habit to pick up after I quit injecting speedballs, although it's about as pricey.
@@raydavison2972 I hear that. Too many people are worried about what others think or judgments or just silly stuff instead of embracing their passions and living their lives. Most are too afraid to deter from the norm.
I kind of agree with Lemmy's hot take: motorcycle sales may suck, but I don't really care. I've done my part to help out the motorcycle industry. I've paid my monies / dues (I have two fairly new motorcycles in my garage, a 2017 Yamaha S10 and a 2019 Kawa H2SX). The thing that gets me is that the motorcycle industry doesn't really promote its own self. In mainstream media, I see more moto-specific ads or marketing campaigns coming from insurance companies. When was the last time you've seen a specific, targeted ad from a motorcycle OEM that wasn't in a motorcycle publication? On the side of motorcycles not being cool, I don't think that's the case. I think that people are more concerned with their overall safety and well-being, and riding a motorcycle seriously detracts from that.
For better or worse, I am a used bike consumer until I retire at the least....it's not that I don't care that sales are in the toilet, I just can't do anything about it...I gotta have a new cage at some point too, and because of my commute and need to work in all weather it has to have AWD, add that into the cost!
I'm with you. I'm not the only one in the house and the Misses doesn't ride, got kids to drive to school, so the cage must be purchased. I do plan on buying another bike this year though.
With all 4 bikes I've owned I always planned on buying new and then a killer deal would pop up on a used bike that just makes so much more sense. I get it with some of the new bikes with so much tech why they need to charge so much, but with old bikes they haven't changed in years I think they could really bring the price down and It wouldn't hurt them much.
@Evo Shift But that's a good thing. Someone who wants to sell their ride to buy a new one. That means someone else gets a used bike and a dealer can sell a new one. It's the circle of bikes, lol! Edit: That's how I scored a nice second hand SV650s... because somebody else wanted to get a new bike. Thats a win-win.
Let us take a look at the location of motorcycle dealerships. Where I live, there are 2 dealerships. One mini metric dealer, and the Juggernaut that is Harley Davidson. I have always seen the more experienced riders ride what they can wrench on. Brand doesn't matter as much. For the "normal" rider who is not a hobbyist, they frequent the dealership for everything the machine requires. Changing oil is definitely not on the schedule. Society as a whole has put big brands like Harley Davidson on a pedestal as "the only bike worthy of driving." If you're over a certain age, this has become almost common knowledge. The anomaly is that the younger rider refuses to accept common knowledge. American classics, or classics in general do not interest the upcoming riders. Paying $20,000 or $40,000 for a new Harley is not going to cut it. Being able to maintain a motorcycle is costly. No matter the brand, therefore most people will be searching for the bike that comes with the support for it. Dealers, service shops and knowledgeable people are needed in order to make it easier for "Joe Average" to even become interested. The only problem seems to be, is it worth it to the owner of a dealership? the technicians who make repairs? salesmen?
So the problem here is that my generation (your early to mid 20's people) has no money to buy a new bike, but they also don't have the mechanical know-how to buy an old bike and make it run like new? If that's what you're trying to say, then I'd have to agree
In the US we have an arms race of larger 'safer' vehicles that's pushing smaller more efficient vehicles out of the market. Motorcycles aren't the only casualty of this; look at car sales. As more people buy oversized heavy SUVs, it makes driving a car less safe. Ford and Chrysler no longer sell any compact cars in the US. The technical driver aids that enable distracted driving is the newest part of this arms race that scares me as a rider. (I don't care if a 2500 pound car or a 5000 pound SUV hits me on a bike.) I am scared by the drivers who are trusting in their cars to brake for them, check their blind spots for them, slow down for them, and even just tell them when to look up from their phones. These driver aids try to detect large fast moving objects (SUVs and cars) and some of the more advanced ones try to detect small slow moving objects (pedestrians.) I don't know if they've been designed to detect and avoid hitting small fast moving objects (motorcycles.) That scares me but not as much as how much safer these aids make drivers feel driving under the influence of their smart phones.
I've been campaigning hard on IG to get Netflix to pilot a series called "The Adventures of Young Sheriff Hopper". I will then pitch myself to be cast as the young Hopper. I am dead serious about this, so if any of you out there know anyone at Netflix, don't be hesitant to put me in touch!
When I was 18 I bought my first motorcycle. A used 1989 gsxr 750 Slingshot. My parents kicked me out. My dad was sure I would kill myself. Fast forward 20 years, my family is used to my riding. My wife has zero interest in it however. Yet every time I take my helmet out of the closet, my wife looks like it's time to get the funeral ready. I have never had an accident where I was badly hurt. Most people in my age group, 35-45, don't ride, want nothing to do with riding, and treat it as if it was an adrenaline type activity like base jumping or bungee. It is no longer a mode of transport, it is an dangerous X sport. I love riding and commute to work maybe 20 times a year, but every time I do, coworkers or clients make comments about being careful and "danger" and just general distrust of riders. It's definitely a sad time for motorcycle riding.
You love riding but you only commute to work 20 times a year? If you rode your bike to work every day, you would normalize it and your wife and coworkers would stop acknowledging it. You need to ride often enough to were riding a motorcycle for you is a way of life, not an event
As a person who has had bikes from Ninja 250r, SV650, fz1, Buell, R6, R1 and S1000RR. I can tell you why, a Japanese literbike has gone from 10k to 17k which use to be exotic territory. Millennials like me see the price and say, hey I can get a honda civic for the price of that bike.
Just got a great deal on a new 2018 GSXS750. Best bang for your buck motorcycle! I plan on keeping this bike no matter what. The induction noise and stock exhaust sound amazing. Motorcycling is an addiction for sure.
I’ve been riding for 30 years started with my Honda Trail 90 and now my Triumph Truxton. I’ve seen it go from; "Oh you ride? That’s so cool. Now it’s; You ride? That’s so dangerous! I know someone who knows someone who got into an accident.” Whatever.
I care! I agree with spurg that even though we're not selling bikes on behalf of OEM's, it's to every riders benefit to promote the hobby. Bringing in new riders and interests will keep sales up, which then motivates manufacturers to keep producing and innovating, thus keeping the industry alive, even grow, and hopefully affordable for everyone.
Note to self. Need to make motorcycles cool again. On it guys! Seriously though, this was the first episode of the podcast I've seen but love what you guys are doing. Hopefully, nobody gets canned and I can watch more in September!
Say you are going to the store, and you have a motorcycle, and a car in your garage. It's a hot summer day. So do you climb in your car which has A/C, or do you put all your body armor on,helmet, gloves. Not to mention risking your life against distracted drivers.
Great talk guys. You glazed over two issues: used bikes are amazing value, and insurance is expensive. Together it contributes to people not buying new
Alright, my .02 - I think Lemmy and Spurge are talking about two distinct things. Spurge is saying customers have a onus to represent motorcycling culture in as best a light as they can (eg, stop with the 100+ mph lane splitting, squids!). Lemmy's saying that the business end of motorcycling (selling bikes and accessories) is on the manufacturers, NOT the individuals. Y'all are both correct :) And Spurge, right on - us idiots sitting through the entire discussion? Yeah, we got a vested interest in seeing the thing we love continue to thrive and prosper!
Motorcycles cost too much for insurance and maintenance. Why does it cost more than double for 2 tires for my Goldwing vs. 4 tires for my econo car with a heater and A/C? Shop rates are higher than the Mercedes Benz dealer!
Money is a big part of it. I've always had a passion for riding and have only had one chance to buy a new bike. CBR 600,... only to be stolen a few months later. Fast forward 20 years and I had a handful of others. Now, still being strapped for cash and forking out 1k/month in CS, I managed to pick up a CL r6 for 450. A lil love and hard work and Im riding again. It took two really substantial things to get me back on 2 wheels. Passion and my mechanical abilities is what got my broke ass on a bike. So many of our younger folks cant even change their tire or oil so theres no way they could build up a project bike. Top that off with almost everyone I know having a student loan bill every month. Then take a drive to a dealer..... Bike are pricey when new and insurance is through the roof on some of these higher end bikes. Top that off with weather in certain climate areas and you get everyone wanting the new honda or something practical... It takes a certain breed to "want" to ride and that breed might be falling off a bit.
We have become a society of pansies, that hold ourselves back. We get constantly told if you act like a man, then you are being "toxic" and "problematic". No longer is being an "alpha" male socially acceptable, and riding something that seems dangerous, rebelous, and bad ass...well isn't acceptable anymore. In other countries motorcycles and/or scooters are seen as reliable and cheap transportation. Especially, when you can't readily afford a car. Even, in the UK when they are closes thing to us in the US...it's seen as transportation and NOT a toy. So, there are a few reasons to why motorcycles have "lost their acceptance". I feel in love with motorcycles through riding bicycles from the time I could walk(still ride today), then started off on 50cc scooters (then moved up through 150cc to 650cc scooters). I have rode different motorcycles and scooters, because I love being on 2 wheels...plus I own a car. Hell, I still ride my bicycle, MTB and city riding...because I love 2 wheels. Motorized or not. I feel the more people convincing their friends and family that bikes are awesome...the more riders we will have on the rode.
I think people are saying it's to dangerous. All I hear people say to me is "I wouldn't ride with how bad the traffic is. And people dont pay attention."
I’m the people who are watching this video and I do not care about the success of a company. Motorcycle, computer, instrument, clothing...any company that is failing is failing because they failed to either meet the demands of consumers or are not creating goods that interest consumers. Quality marketing for decent bikes at decent price points will sell way more bikes than a bunch of motorcyclists trying to convince their friends to buy a bike. But when you have Harley heavily promoting a $30k electric bike with trash mileage, that’s gonna shut down whatever interest was built up real quick. So what happens then is people buy used and the ones that love It buy a new one in time while everybody else becomes one of those people who says “wow, yeah...I used to ride a triumph in the 80s.” In the US, it’s almost exclusively for hobbiests. Motorcycle companies need to figure out how to market why we NEED a motorcycle. Right now they are playing off the whole out dated image of being a rebel or taking It out on PCH and ride the coastal sunset...they are selling us a hobby. They are still grasping at people who grew up riding, like you guys..when they need to be grasping at teenagers and college kids and young professionals. Just my two cents here.
Motorcycle sales are down probably cause alot of people cant drive a manual transmission. Look at all the cars and trucks that are automatic now. Motorcycles require the ability to switch gears.
Nope. Ain't care. I really enjoy Riding but, I don't care about all the imaginary financial burden or social obligation you've made up for motorcyclists to care about; it just doesn't matter to me
The 2020 bikes are coming out and I see new 2018's still on the floor. The traditional HD riders are getting older and don't ride much and aren't buying new bikes. Many factors overall.
Thanks to you guys and some motovloggers I've finally decided to pull the trigger. Taking my msf basic course next weekend, I've wanted to ride ever since I was a kid and now at 31 I will finally do it. But I will say the cost is definitely a huge factor, I'm going to the private market for a bike and not financing one.
I just want to say that i love these high side low side discussions/ podcasts. I hope they continue after the summer break. Let the people at revzilla know we want more! :-)
I live in N. Indiana next to a Major University (Notre Dame). There is 1 Harley dealer. I have to drive 30 miles to see a Yamaha or Indian . No Honda dealer, No Suzuki or Kawasaki..don't even look for a Moto Guzzi or Triumph around here.
There are three reasons I'm vested in the manufacturer's success. 1st. If they sell more bikes like mine, more aftermarket companies are going to invest in making products for my bike, giving me more options to customize and improve performance. 2nd. If they are financially healthy, they are generally not going to cut too many corners sacrificing quality and reliability. Which leads to the third point... 3rd. If they are making money, the make a great fun and reliable bike, not only they will stay in business, but they will help keep my bike's resale value high. Getting more for my bike when I sell it will allow me to get a better bike next time, and if I see the benefits of the company translating into more fun/$ spent, it will encourage me to stay brand loyal. Win-win situation. If they go out of business my resale value goes significantly down, unless I want to wait about 30 years in hopes that my KLR650 becomes a "collectible classic"...fat chance.
In Nashville Tennessee bikes of all types are everywhere. Here's the thing, what's the most popular adventure bike this year. Answer, the Royal Enfield Himalayan and the rest of their bikes that are cool and retro but with ABS. It's the price boys I'm telling you. I love Harley and would love to have a street glide but 20K plus.......sorry I don't have the money so I ride a Vulcan Classic.
In North America bikes are seen as a luxury item older people have more money, and Harley plays to wannabe “baddass” middle aged or older white males. Young people find the “Harley biker” image trashy and want nothing to do with it. So there is that. So motorcycles didn’t stop being cool, but Harley and what they represent did. Unfortunately that’s over half the bikes on the road.
Been riding since 1968. As in any high risk sport, motorcycling has always been dangerous; nothing new. You can live with or without the spice of risk. One reason why i'm still around is 'cause I take mine in in measured dosis. I only ride when my game is up psychologically & physically. Add physical protection and learned riding skills; you can lower the odds enough to satisfy almost any mom (or wife).
People have become pussified that is a fact and the number one reason motorcycle riding is not as popular. The other reason is inflation, the cost of living, and the fact that a motorcycle is a want and not a need (reverse that shit for me). If I had a dollar for every time someone told me that motorcycles are dangerous and not worth the risk, I would be able to get me a brand new BMW S1000 M edition -- cash. On the flip side, I am a single father of an 11 year old boy, I hope he has no interest in wanting a motorcycle due to the risk and the fact my son is all I have. When he becomes an adult, he can get what he wants, but I am not promoting riding in my family.
Not enough said about distracted car drivers. Can’t count the number of former riders telling me they gave up riding because of cell phones. “I never saw him, officer” , rider dead should = manslaughter charges. We should be seeing PSA’s on tv every hour on every station educating drivers of the life and death consequences of cellphone in cars.
I didn't by my 1st bike until I was 29 years old. The reason why is I couldn't afford one and like you guys talked about and it is a lot easier to buy a tv and xbox and call it a day. But now that I ride, its all I ever want to do or talk about. I finally got my best friend and his wife wanting to ride, but only after I told them out of experience its not as dangerous as it sounds as long as you ride defensively. Now they have the interest its the cost holding them back. The cost of a new bike isn't terrible especially since they're interested in an MT07 and a Z400 but you also have to factor in gear for 1st time buyers plus insurance. With 2 kids, a morgage and a handful of needed repairs around the house. For my friends that do have some extra cash it really is the other fun things out there thats holding them back. The interest is out there, but they'd rather buy a new gun, get more tattos or finally buy their dream car.
I care! Just purchased a new 2019 Suzuki v-strom 650 and I hope that Suzuki stays in business long enough that I can buy or upgrade a few years down the road. Just keep riding!
Great video, great season, thanks guys. I rode neighbor's dirt bikes as a kid (no one in my family rode) but wrecked pretty bad and that slowed down my interest. Most of my adult life I just never really thought about them. I was doing backcountry stuff on foot, on skis, in boats, on horses, and bikes just weren't a thing. Fast forward to my 50's and a good friend talked me into getting a bike (wasn't Spurge!). My wife was reluctant, and my kid worried about it. In my safety training course for my license, the stat was riding a moto was 27x as dangerous as a car. 27 times! I'm surprised my wife still supported me. I've been riding 4 years now, and love it so much. I preach, but I also understand how dangerous it is with all the distracted drivers, and young idiots on the road in super comfy, super quiet, super techy cars they don't even see anyone else on the road, and it gives me pause. I mitigate by not riding at night, during rush hour, in town, etc., but I still think a lot about it. It's not my skills I worry about, its some idiot not paying attention to others sharing the world with them. Will I ride forever? I don't know. I do appreciate the newer tech aimed at safety, but there is only so much you can do. But I do appreciate the culture, love the thrill and the challenge, and hope that all those other drivers see me so that I can do it as long as I feel the urge.
Millennial's are the "nurtured" generation. As young kids they could play in the backyard for a limited time (wouldn't want those pesky allergies to affect lil' Justin". A small percentage had a bicycle that they could ride on the approved bike trail with mom and dad on their bikes with baby sister in the tag along (don't forget the 6' flag for visibility!). So it makes sense that that generation shy's aware from the inherently dangerous motorcycle. not to mention that the stigma of 'biker' culture, whether HD stereotypes, or street Rossi's and cafe ruffians go against their soft ideologies. The older generations are buying less because of increase in traffic and the evaporating 'biker' culture that they found alluring. Plus not to mention, the industry continues to elevate prices so that they can get more ROI. I would love to have a garage full of newish bikes but the majority of bikes I magnate towards are almost to car price. A larger selection of interesting, quality bikes above 500cc's in the $5K - $8K range would be attractive to younger generations IMO.
I dont agree with the nurtured culture part, i think that most millennials just actually care about the world around them instead of selfishly thinking. I also think most millennials believe in practicality, and motorcycles are just not practical. Its a hobby. These a reason why almost everyone who owns a bike also owns a car, but only a small percentage who own a car also own a bike. Why own 2 different vehicles when 1 has weather, and seating restrictions? Its just not smart. Millennials grew up during some of the worst times in our economy, including the recession. The watched parents get laid off and struggle. Theyve seen grandparents lose homes theyve had for 40 years, And now many cant afford to have anything extra coming out of their paycheck such as motorcycle insurance during the down season and etc. Or they simply see the bigger picture and would rather hold onto that money. Theres a reason why tiny homes are becoming popular. Theyre practical, economically feasible, and affordable. Why get a $6,000 bike and still need a car when you can get an $8,000 car and be done? But the biker cultrue part is dead on though.
@@shayslay3416 Respectfully, if you think millennials are the only generation to care about the "world around them", you are sorely mistaken and showing your age group and I'm not clear how that is relevant to sagging motorcycle sales. Also to note, previous generations lived through (or were children of those who did) actual depression rather than a fairly mild recession. Your comments are very much in line with the sheltered, self centered outlook millennials have, no offense intended. Millennials are very enthusiastic about EV's however so its possible when affordable, practical electric options are available, sales will reflect. I think the LiveWire is a step in the right direction as an option, not a replacement. I personally would never pay that much money for one, but those prices will come down eventually.
@@racer2c i never said millenials were the only group who care about the enviornment. But are they the biggest group putting their money where their mouths are? Yes, absolutely. And there are statistics to back that up. They are literally pushing for more sustainable changes which is why we see fast food chains giving up plastic straws and cups, the tiny home movement, and minimalism rising. And it directly relates to sagging motorcycle sales because motorcycles arent practical. Coming from the stance that the majority of people will also need cars as well as the bike. So why waste the resources on creating bikes when for most people, it wont be the sole form of transportation. Why even buy something that burns gas and creates emissions when youll need something bigger on the day to day life anyway? More and more millenials are turning to more efficient and enviornmentally friendly forms of transportation such as public transit. And there are affordable EV's such as the nissan leaf, the prius, smart for two, and etc. Even teslas model 3 is down to $35,000 which is a step for them. If Zero bikes can cut down on costs in the future, then i think we will see more millenial riders. But its still not practical on a value sense, so probably not by much. And yes, some people still living did go through the great depression. But they came out of it with an amazing economy, social programs, affordable housing, cheap education, livable minimum wages, incredible job growth which meant most didnt need minimum wage jobs because more oportunity was available, and an abundance of other resources, which is why that generation started having kids, aka, the baby boomers. Who in general, did not have to struggle much because they had the same benefits, unless they were hit by the recent recession later in their adult life after being 40+ years deep into establishing their lives. The boomers did not live through the great depression, but the millenials lived through the recession, are battling the housing markets, the price of education, the lack of high leveled jobs, terrible pays and etc. And the generation before the boomers are not the ones on bikes. So while i get your point, its a little off gear. Millennials are more likely to be worried about sustainability and funding their own retirement accounts than everyone else because social security will probably be gone. And a fun hobby that costs money doesnt fit in that mold. Older generations dont have as much to worry about. And thus is why i stand the way i do.
@mld im not saying that older people who lost their homes are anyones fault but their own. Im just saying that young people watched it happen and had their families security knocked from under them. Your heartless attitude in the sake of the matter does say a lot about the era that you may have grown up in though. And it seems to be a very self centered snobby one that lacks empathy and value for anyone elses situation but your own lol. Im not going to guess who that sounds like though 😂
So many good points being made. My take away, overall, is that we should all be trying to do our part to keep the culture healthy so that manufacturers can continue to engage their customers with products and bikes that they actually want, rather than shrinking into obsolescence and maintaining relevance with just the select few. It’s a tough market these days, that’s for sure. Also, Lemmy it was nice meeting you yesterday!
I bought a new bike because I don't like the idea of someone else wrenching on it before me. Plus, 6 yr warranty in case my KTM blows up. Enjoy your break guys! Ride safe!
I am 63 years old now and been riding since I was 35 and I have never owned a brand new bike . I have owned 3 used bike and M riding a 2004 Yamaha FJR 1300 I love my bike but if I had the Expendable income I would probably own more motorcycles
modern bikes cost WAY to much !!! when you have to choose between a new car and a motorcycle because they cost nearly the same ! then its no wonder sales are down.
In Germany the biggest point pushing me to ride bikes is the lack of parking space. And coming with it the flexibility I could get just stopping where I want to go not where I can park. Learned to love small displacement "bikes" in Vietnam, but in 'murcia People seems to like only "Real Bikes".
If you want parts and support for your bike 10 years down the road, then you should care about the financial health of the company that made it. Ask Victory owners how they feel now. I tend to keep bikes a long time (17 years on a Voyager XII and now 12 years on an LT and a year on a KLR650), so I am quite keen to have BMW and Kawasaki stay in business.
Three intelligent, well spoken people having a real discussion on motorcycling. Non-riders would benefit from watching this....but unfortunately never will. Big fan of the beard Joe.
I've rode for 34 years. Haven't had a bike for 3 years. My last 2 bikes I owned at the same time were gsxr1000 and Harley Road King. Love riding both of them. Part of not buying one now is all the distracted drivers glued to their cell phones and I'm boating in my free time. I miss riding but having more fun on the water past couple of years. And bikes are huge in SE Asia out of economics and practicality. Been there seen that done that.
As a person who has been riding motorcycles for 50 years, I do care about the state of motorcycle sales, for one important reason. When motorcycle manufacturers are being successful and there are more companies out there as a result, there is more innovation in the industry. If it ever comes down to where there are only a handful of companies, there will less incentive to innovate. Even though Harley is struggling (reasons for that are a different topic), when they had virtually no competition, they didn't change their product at all. Bring Indian into the picture and they had to start bringing more technology to their bikes. So if you are a motorcycle enthusiast, I think it does matter.
For me motorcycles are only a transportation solution and nothing more. I suspect this is the insight that the North American motorcycle industry is missing, too many people in the North American sphere consider this a "power sport", and because of that thinking there is an artificial road block to down pressure on building cost effective products that cater to people looking for cost effective transportation solutions.
My bike is for commuting and cheap transportation and travel. Is it fun? Hell yes, but I wouldn’t own a bike just to cruise on the weekend sometimes. That’s a waste of money to me.
@@rewmeister tech on bikes is getting to be too much. Id rather have my , no traction control , no wheelie control, no abs , no stability control, carbed srad!.. but ya ill stick w what i got .. thats why sales suck
I think a large part of it is related to the fact that far fewer people know how to drive a manual transmission, and one of the things that historically made bikes great and fun was 1) the ability to actually feel the road-- to feel like you were REALLY driving/riding, and 2) the ability to work on your bike, to modify, improve, and customize it, and mechanical know-how has drastically declined too.
I am 63, I have been riding since the '70's, different bikes, started w/a Honda CB450, moved on to a full dress '58 Harley PanHead, and back to a Vespa P200E, a Honda Reflex and now a Suzuki Burgman 400. I hope they all stay in business, I want to watch how Royal Enfield does w/their HImaylan, and 650's, as far as price goes they are a steal. We need to make some movies pointing out the practicality oif scooters and bikes to get the younger folks interested.
2 Quick 2 Come 2018 CVO Streetglide... stealership wants $52,000! then wants to rape me by more than 10k on trade-ins of 2 bikes I bought ... from them. It’s not even an Ultra or liquid cooled. 52k?! Told them they were 10k+ High on their bike and 10k low on my bikes. Add the super aggressive sales culture at the stealership, and it’s a wonder they sell anything. It’s sooo unpleasant!
@@millibarman You wear new Harleys, for other people - like overpriced designer clothes. No one admires you personally for how fancy your expensive new Harley is - like the narcissist pricks driving new, Porches. Get a good used bike and it may not lose much value. Some have gone way up. $10-15k will buy a lot of used bike.
I care. The only reason I have a steady job is to ride motorcycles. If motorcycling doesn't bite you I also understand that. I wish dealers and OEMs the best of luck, they're responsible for their own marketing/image/sales. If you're not offering me a demo, even a pony ride, I'm not buying your bike. Thanks for the chat, tres hombres.
With low interest rates consumer debt increases. And we now have all time consumer debt! So I think it's related to consumers not being able to afford motorcycles rather than a loss of interest
Sales might suck but as a first bike owner I couldn't beat the price of my first bike....free. Why would I spend $5000 on a bike that I just might wreck when a used motorcycle can be had for a better price?
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Hey guys love the show. Could sales be declining because people today are more interested in buying used and getting more bang for your buck? Personally bought a 2006 Cbr for $3,000 because I live in Puerto Rico and something like a DRZ goes for $8,000 used and about $10,500 new. I would love something more practicall but couldn’t invest so much in a new bike
Subbed.
@revZilla you should hold a poll for that last question!
speaking of fun things you can spend 10 grand on, did you know that for kind of money you could buy a motorglider and literally fly around you're neighbourhood.
audio version is soooo great to listen to while riding.
Modern bikes are not the cheap simple things they used to be. Dealership fees are crazy, insurance rates are even crazier. It feels like the world is trying to make bikers extinct.
Blame it on the people, blame it on ourselves not the manufacturers. Everybody wants the latest greatest shiny new thing to one up someone or themselves. The manufactures are doing what they’re told to survive.
@Evo Shift there's been 50% inflation since 2000, so $10k -> $15k. Usually new bikes like that are $16.5k, so I don't think the prices have gone too crazy
@Evo Shift Bikes have improved however most of the improvement is in the weight, performance, and technology. Also as a owner of a said 1K sport bike which is a 2018 model, I have rode bikes that are 10-15 years old and they just don't act the same. Every liter bike now has ABS and traction control at least. My bike has a Bosh IMU (lean angle sensor), ABS, traction control, cruise control, anti wheelie, quickershift, and downshift blipper. However my friend's FZ1 doesn't have even half of that. Do I need it? No I can handle my bike fine because I don't have the anti wheelie on and traction control is set at 1 out of 8 just in case I start to slide too much. I enjoy both my bike and my friends but he's wanting something that has more convenience. That's what really sells some bikes. Its easy to just get on the interstate and put the cruise control on while heading to the hills. As for prices as @Nolan Luckett said inflation has caused most of that some of it is because of all the extras they add. People still think I'm crazy for spending 15k on mine from the showroom floor but it's what I love. If you want it that bad you'll find a way to get it.
Dealers in Tampa charge a $299 Predelivery Service charge, $1,598 Freight and set-up charge, and reconditioning charges, this is ON TOP of the actual price.
I agree. That’s why you should buy used. You pay 1/2 for a 2 or 3 year old bike with 5k miles.
I retired a couple of years ago and at 71 became the owner of a motorcycle for the first time in my life. Previously I did not have time to even think about riding. I have a Suzuki TS250x and love it. In the past year I've ridden over 3000 miles, and that is just tooling around town. As a new rider I am still developing sills. I do have my eye on a new SV650, but I feel lucky to have what I have and be able to ride.
Larry, you will LOVE the SV650!
Cool story. I had an SV... gen 1. Have you looked at the Kawasaki Versys 650?
You bought your first bike at 71? That is fantastic!
As an expat Englishman living in Indonesia I can see the two sides of the issues raised. By the way Lemmy you are welcome to come here and stay and try the bike culture here for yourself anytime. Here people ride bikes because they are poor, and cars are expensive. They are not "bikers". They ride badly. I had never been scared riding a bike before I lived here. The bike is simply the thing they are on to get them from A to B, or to carry something too big or too heavy to move any other way. Wardrobes, beds, and piles of boxes, as well as three four or five people are quite normal here.
They ride small bikes because of cost. There is a premium on prices once you go hit 200cc. Autimatics are the norm, because they are easy to ride.
I have been riding bikes since the 1980s in the UK, I am a 365 days a year rider, come rain, come, snow.
What has changed in the Western world is our ecomomics. My father back in the 1930's, 40's, and 50's rode a bike because he could not afford a car. Back then everyone rode a motorbike. I they got married and had a kid they got a sidecar. Everyone aspired to car ownership. We got our first car in the late 60's and that was a very seconhand Standard Vanguard.
I don't easily identify with the RUclipsrs who Vlog. Most of them avoid rain, avoid cold. A bike is criticised for a lack of heated grips, cruise controls, or fuel guage. The bike has become a toy. It is male jewelery and is only there to display more bling. They ride at weekends, if it is dry and warm.
You cannot turn the clock back. In Western countries the sales will follow economic downturns and upswings because the bike is a luxury item now.
Here in Asia and elsewhere the bike is, at least for the moment an essential like water, gas and food. Familes have two or three bikes. This is changing, there are more cars, and I see more "aspirational" bikes appearing in the market place.
Love this series. Look forward to its return. Keep up the good work. Ride Safe. Stephen Cartwright
Indonesian bike riders do scare the shit out of me, especially Jakarta bike riders.
I love this comment but I disagree that the West has made bike into a luxury toy forever.
I think the pandemic and car shortages and inflation etc etc is starting to bring some of that "ride 2 wheels because of poverty" back to the United States. Scooters are becoming terrifyingly more popular and theyre ridden by people who obviously have no idea what counter-steering is.
I think the Western world's "middle class" has been very gradually depleted over the course of the last 5 or so decades and we are headed back to a time where the poorest among us ride 2 wheels because we have to, not want to. I think the OEMs have not caught on yet. I think this will show up most visibly in sprawl cities like Los Angles and Atlanta.
In the US and Canada, motorcycles are a recreational vehicle. To the rest of the world it's cheap, practical transportation.
I live and ride in japan, and I’d say it’s somewhere in the middle here. Anything less than 125cc is generally considered to be practical cheap transportations; anything above is considered to be expensive toys (for the most part) I commute on my 250cc Honda Rebel every day though👍 Hbu bud? Do ya use your bike as a transportation wherever you live or is it a toy for ya?
I like to commute on my 300 then hop on a giant ambulance that guzzles fuel
From my limited experience the dealers rip customers off with fees and that hurts the manufacturers sales because buying private is so much cheaper.
Amen. My 2 Ninja 300 was $8000 at our Kawasaki dealership brand new, got it for half that a couple years later in effectively the same condition. Would never buy from a dealership unless I wanted a specific bike no ifs, ands, or buts and couldn't find one used.
AlibifortheAfterlife never have a need for someone’s used possibly crashed or dropped bike.
Sales probably down cause we live in a (everything's too dangerous) county now. I hate the fact that a lot of people are afraid of motercycles. They are the best stress reliever I have found and couldn't imagine life without them.....oh definitely care about the industry and want to see it thrive. Even have a stupid Revzilla sticker on my truck...I'm in Utah and have noticed more bikes on the road since the new lane filtering law passed. Good job Utah.
Not afraid of bikes, but terrified of drivers on the road not paying attention/on their phones.
I'd say distracted drivers have more to do than people being afraid motorcycles themselves. BUT, that has always been a part of riding. Being more observant than most drivers and understanding that you can't afford to be distracted.
I am so sick of strangers telling me how I should be careful because they know a guy who has a friend that crashed his bike... Happens all the time and I'm sick of it.
So true!....me too.
@@adamkatz94 Use the throttle to avoid obstacles like cell phone users.
I’m 63 years old. I started riding dirt bikes when I was 12 and street bikes at 16. Not long after I got my drivers license I got a pilots license and an amateur radio license. When I wasn’t doing one of those activities I was playing my guitar. As far as I know, every one of those activities is seeing declines in sales and overall interest. I agree with all your reasons for the declining participation in motorcycling, but it’s not just bike sales. In addition to safety and financial concerns I think a lot of younger people have gotten used to instant gratification and don’t want to put the time and effort required to become proficient to the point at which it becomes enjoyable. As far as bringing new blood into the sport of motorcycling, the additional obstacle we face is safety. A few years ago my now 28 year old son expressed an interest in learning to ride. It actually scared the hell out of me. I still ride almost everyday and enjoy every minute I’m on a bike but I think a little more each year about the consequences of an accident. I hope I know when it’s time to hang it up but I know I’ll dread that day.
Pilot, guitarist, radio operator, and motorcycle enthusiast..... when did you have time to have a kid? lol Jokes aside, my 8yo wants to ride and I feel the same way..... I don't think twice about my own safety (even though I have crashed several times and avoided numerous more crashes) but I worry about my son riding. I'm going to teach him to be smarter than me on a motor.
Younger generation has no money and can’t finance because full coverage insurance is almost as much as the bike
My M8 HD has full coverage only 38 bucks a month
Yup that's why.
Or more depending on the bike. Cruisers’ insurance is cheap sport bikes are super expensive. Younger riders are drawn to the sexy, fast sport bikes with super expensive insurance rates that they can’t afford. But they won’t ride the cruisers with cheap rates because they’re not cool, or are for old people. Or the only cool cruisers are Harley’s that are stupid expensive... either the bike is too expensive or the insurance is. Harley needs to drop their prices or we need to change the image of import cruisers. We can’t really drop the insurance rates of the sport bike.
@@thinkingoutloud9126 Let's be honest, if you want a cruiser you probably want a Harley. Otherwise you'd be the guy who's not sure whether to hang out with Harleys or Japanese sport bikes. I'm not really into cruisers but if I had the option to own multiple bikes and wanted a cruiser, I'd probably go with a Harley.
Trump's fault.
The cash issue is significant. I won my bike in a raffle, but have been struggling to even pay for the necessary upkeep because of other more practical financial issues: a kitchen remodel, electrical work that we need done, an upcoming need for a new mattress, upcoming vacation trip with the wife, etc. Even cheaper hobbies like my vinyl listening have taken a huge hit due to both limited finances and time. And all of this is AFTER I finally caught up from years in a debt hole as an employed Gen-Xer. I can't even being to imagine how most Millennials might begin to comprehend affording something like a bike. Hell, my wife and I gave up on the idea of having kids a few years back because we knew we'd never be able to adequately provide for one.
I don't think that bikes in themselves are the problem (though improved reliability does help reduce the need to buy new). Modern economic realities are the real killer. The large used market should be kept in mind as well.
Hit the nail right on the head brother. The only reason I was able to afford a motorcycle as an 18 yr old is because I was able to secure a relatively high paying job (23 an hour) working in construction for the summer. Now if I had bills (which thankfully my family can still cover for me) I definitely wouldn't have been able to do it. The housing market and price of living is just too damn high to afford "toys" like motorcycles. In fact I only got one because my family can't afford to buy me a car for college, so I got a bike (much cheaper)
@@alexslaydon5589 exactly. My son who is about to start univeristy next year is getting (actually alreadys has) a brand new duke 200 which he is about to get his license and learn to ride because we cant afford to get him a car. The cost of registration and insurance as well as running costs for the duke 200 is significantly cheaper then even a small 4 cyclinder car. The cost of living and spiralling debt we get ourselves into these days by getting a home loan and as Spurg said all the other things we now have like mobile phones and the plans we get for them, getting the latest TV, video games and consoles and other technology that are constantly evolving and changing sometimes forces us to upgrade (mobile phones and computers are a classic example) which in turn makes it virtually impossible for someone on a low income to go purchase a new motorcycle. As cities get larger and more congested people tend to opt for public transport too which is cheap. Kids these days are more interested in technology rather then getting out and enjoying the outdoors or riding a motorcycle. Times are changing as are the attitudes of kids but at some point I do believe there will be cycle change again particularly as technology becomes more advanced and sophisticated in things like cars and motorcycles. As things become cool again we will see a change in attitudes. Things come and go all the time. Just look at how popular retro gaming has become again with all the mini consoles that have come out and the new ones coming out later this year. Same thing will happen to motorcycles at some point especially if companies can lower the price point so the majority of lower income earners can afford one. One of the biggest issues facing motorcyclists too is the fact so many cages use their mobile phones while driving which has caused a significant increase in accidents. That plays on the minds of just about everyone these days (motorcyclists included) and so they fear getting on a motorcycle and parents are too scared and avoid encouraging their kids to get on one for that very reason.
Good points, but it sounds like you need to step up your financial game and find a career that can remedy a lot of those issues. That's what I had to do. I took two steps back, and sacrificed a lot of shit to get where I am today, and at the age of 47, I can pretty much get any motorcycle I want. Not bragging, but the World does not meet anyone halfway. Earn it ese.
I’m 22 and about to make 6000 a month lol it’s not hard to make a good amount of money, plus I want to be a entrepreneur lol you can do anything guys
Jim Beam For a single 22 year old 6 grand a month is more than enough, thats 72 grand a year which is more than what the average family earns in a year lol.
I care. It drives me crazy that the industry has just chased boomers and their good credit my entire adult life. Motorcycling is one of the most fun things you can do, or at least we all think so, and yet multiple generations at this point have no idea because the industry never bothered to try to cultivate them. The industry would rather blame governments or the market itself rather than take a look in the mirror and ask "Have I done everything I could?"
That's an interesting statement because it's us boomers who were around when classic bikes were on showroom floors, and we boomers are the ones riding these classic bikes. I own a 1971 Suzuki TC 100 but with a strong TC185 motor, a 1978 SR500 bobber, and a modest little, cherry Honda CB125S. My favorite bikes I owned, of all time though include a Penton 175, Penton 250, and Penton 400. I betcha you maybe know what one of those are. We boomers also know the name Maico, Ossa,, and Bultaco, all of which are better than the plastic computer crap on today's showroom floor.
@@johnjriggsarchery2457 I think what Thomas was trying to say is that the newer generation of bikers need bikes they can afford to ride. Classic looking bikes are expensive now and millennials cannot compete with their dollars against boomer dollars to buy them. I think a big reason why young riders go for sport bikes and nakeds is because those segments are priced more to millennials' purchasing power. Ask yourself how often do you see old guys on a Honda Grom?
If a company wants to sell a product, they advertise. The only time that you’ll see a Honda or Yamaha commercial is during a televised motocross race, if at all.
Yes. We see FREAKING KIA commercials @ the superbowl. But any motorcycle commersials? Nope... Honda needs another Nice campaign on a major platform again
From a "young person's" point of view, I will say that the best way to appeal to my age group is to highlight the affordability and practically side of things (but be honest about the impractically as well). I recently bought a 2016 CBR300R since I will be going to college in a few months. It was cheap, has so far been super reliable compared to the other shitty used cars I've had (that would cost near the same as my bike), and the fuel economy is just amazing. We aren't so much concerned with buying a machine that puts out 150+ horsepower (though it is definitely on the to-do list for me) because in all honesty that is not a practical bike. It's a machine built and designed for racing. The majority of people my age just don't have the money nor desire to delve into motorcycling as a hobby. Anyway, that's my .02 on the matter 🤷♂️
I agree. For example, the service schedule on motorcycles is MUCH more intensive than a car, but that fact is hidden from the customer. If a service manual came with the bike and individuals were empowered by dealerships to maintain their motorcycles-and develop a deeper understanding of the bikes (they would need to be built in a way that facilitates this, naturally) rather than having valve adjustments, steering head service, chain and sprocket maintenance etc. coming as not only a surprise to new riders but a serious financial hardship when dealer fees are involved, then the manufacturers would more successfully build a solid customer base. The current model is exploitative of the consumer, and the new generation is NOT having it.
The used bike market is so lucrative that unless a dealership is offering some insane deals, you're way better off getting a 5 year old bike with 5k miles on it for half what it originally sold for. The average person just doesn't have 10 grand (on the low end) to spend on a new bike, and instead of spending 6-7k on a more budget friendly bike, you could get a low milage high quality bike that'll out perform that for 5k.
Just picked up a 97 ninja 600 for $600 runs great has 5k miles on besides faded paint everthing is perfect.
@@TheGnanubis Make sure you check the tire age on the sidewalls and tread life. Change all the fluids and replace the air filter, plugs, brakes, etc.. I'm sure a $600 bike needs at least half of those things! Stay safe and have fun
@@smugmode I would consider all that to be regular matnice not realy something that makes a bike good or bad. Unless its ran with out oil
it's pretty hard to convince someone to pickup motorcycles if they are not inclined to it in the first place
Companies could probably do a better job reaching a wider audience. Motorcycle lovers are gonna buy bikes, its just a matter of where. Many years ago people like Honda were making huge waves with stuff like the Super Cub though, by marketing it as a chill, convenient little bike that even your grandma could ride. I think if they stepped their game up and touted their lower-end CC bikes, show off bikes MPG which can be like 75MPG (crazy compared to the SUV's people are drawn to these days), plus how much less resources it takes to make bikes over cars, they'd draw more people in. I get that we are more safety concerned nowadays, but if we convinced like 10% of people to trade their cars for bikes, smog levels drop, traffic would greatly drop, and then you have more people seeing them on the road wondering what the fuss is about.
If they started there first, I think from that they would lead more people to be interested in other aspects of two-wheeled shenanigans like pricier cruisers, hobby-ist dirt bikes, and sport bikes.
You all are too young to remember (probably not yet born), but the likely reason for the spike in 1973 was gas shortages due to the Arab oil embargo. There were long waiting lines at gas stations and often stations were out of gas. Lots of folks bought bikes just to get to work on the limited gas available.
I remember that shit. Used to sit in my dads car and wait and wait. I seen people get into some major fights as well.
Neo Smith I was 13 then, but remember it well. I have long wanted to see OPEC get their reward for that embargo and when we struck gas in PA, ND and other places as well as more oil, it has been fun to watch oil prices plunge and OPEC is pretty much powerless to respond now. Makes me smile.
LTVoyager, oh, dude. I hate to burst your bubble, but OPEC is *still* very much in control of oil prices. The countries which make up OPEC are still responsible for the *vast* majority of oil production in the world, and can collectively control whether there is a glut or dearth of crude oil on the market. In fact, while they routinely adjust their output to ensure that oil prices remain (mostly) stable, because it’s better for them economically to *not* run off their biggest consumers (e.g.: the US). The only thing preventing OPEC from creating gas shortages again, are: 1) The Strategic Oil Reserve (good for a few years at current consumption rates), and 2) their knowledge that a lot of countries would go hard-core into other energy sources if they did so. (Basically, it would be great for OPEC *short* term, and economic suicide *long* term. OPEC uses oil prices to apply pressure that prevents the US from doing things that are *too* blatantly stupid and harmful to the region, despite the fact that militarily and economically we completely outclass the entire region combined. If we were to suffer another oil embargo, our economy would be hit even worse than it was in the 70s, because we’re dependent on oil for so many more materials and products than we were at the time.
Theo Brinkman You made my point quite well. OPEC no longer can swing oil prices at a whim. It is constrained on many fronts now. 1. It is a smaller percentage of world oil production than it was 20+ years ago. 2. Oil prices are already below the level where many member nations can make the money they need to keep their population suppressed. If prices go much lower, their will be riots in many countries. 3. There are more alternatives to oil now than ever before, particularly NG in the US.
So, OPEC certainly can influence oil prices, but they no longer really control them as they are constrained now on too many fronts. And it is a beautiful thing.
Reasonably healthy here in Thailand @ about 1.8 million a year with a population of about 60 million..... But 95% are basic, practical 1/8 litre scoots, that folks buy to get around on. My own ride is a 22 year-old, 100cc Honda Dream that has done 289,000 km (180,000 miles). Does an easy 50 - 55 mph (tops out @ 65) and gets better than 130 mpg(US). Frankly, few of of the high tech behemoths offered in the West would be of interest to me and most others here.
And Thailand is home to my beloved Honda CB500X.
I LOVE the Honda Dream, and it's great to hear someone is keeping it alive and using it so much. Ride on! That's so awesome!
We need a big campaign to legalize lane sharing on the remaining states. Once those car owners stuck on traffic see the bikes filtering through and getting to their destination faster, a lot more people will opt to commute on two wheels. As it is right now, if there's heavy traffic, I rather take the car and enjoy some air conditioning.
Beerded Wanderer, you hit the nail on the head. Really, it’s a similar dynamic with bicycles. In some cities, people use them as primary transportation; but as a percentage of overall users, two-wheels are seen as toys/luxury items, not as viable transportation.
I would add that the industry as a whole promoted that toy/luxury image for a long time.
@@beerdedwanderer agreed, but the flip side is that it seems incredible to me that people in non-splitting states even have motorcycles. Why would you? They're dangerous as hell and you have to sit in the weather waiting?
They need to legalize lane sharing. Come on, big manufacturers, let's do some old fashioned political lobbying
Motorcycle culture in rest of the World is so much different than the the US. Bikes/Scooters are way of life in many countries, while it is a weekend hobby for people like me here in the US. I look forward to a Sunny Sunday all week long even if it is only a few hours of ride. In Paris, Rome, Bangkok or Delhi they ride rain or shine.
I'm not normally one to comment, but the last question of this HS/LS hit home for me. To explain my situation as a consumer (and a millenial): I grew up wanting a motorcycle pretty much as early as I can remember wanting really anything with a motor and wheels. My mom, however, didnt agree with that sentiment and I had to wait until buying my own house to get one... and now have been riding for several years. I would consider myself relatively abnormal as far as typical population goes in even wanting one. A big issue in America as a whole is practicality. Whether you live in a big city or a rural farmtown... a motorcycle simply and objectively isn't the best way to spend your money for either transportation or leisure unless you already have some sort of reasoning for wanting one. What good does a small motorcycle do you if you can't use it for your morning commute on the highway at 70mph... or if it's raining... or if you have a passenger or two... or maybe if you share a common fear that motorcycling is significantly more demanding and dangerous than any other form of transportation? A big motorcycle might solve some issues of usability, but that comes with significantly increased cost and even more deterring factors for entry. I feel like anyone looking from the outside-in is going to view motorcycling as something that wouldn't benefit them in the slightest, especially when considering the finite resource of leisure dollars to spend.
On the topic of whether you should care about inspiring the interest of others "in the sport" as Spurg calls it is erroneous in its principle. Objectively, inspiring someone that would otherwise have no interest in motorcycling is, in my opinion, equivalent to telling someone they should start smoking cigarettes because they're so cool and relaxing. Like cigarettes, the hobby of motorcycling exposes the participant to greatly increased risk factors for injury and possibly death and this can't be ignored. The only people you could hope to and/or should care about attracting are already going to have an interest in motorcycling.
The decline of motorcycle sales is to be expected as consumers shift away from desiring motor vehicles, particularly leisure motor vehicles, as a whole. Even the sentiment that you /need/ a particular product to enjoy an activity is an outdated way of thinking. Why buy a motorcycle to go trail riding when you can simply go for a hike?
I'm not sure where the conclusion lies in all of this, so I'll leave that part up to anyone who would be kind enough to read my drabble and post a reply. Thank you all and ride safe!
Personally I’m just tired of the Harley crowds arrogance. I’ve sold my dyna and have bought 3 new dual sports this year and having more fun than I ever have. I just laugh at the fact now my old friends won’t wave at me on my KLR!! The cool Harley crowd is shrinking. My friend just bought a new heritage classic and said I should get a Harley again so we could ride??? Why isn’t it cool with that crowd to ride the KLR?? Harley crowd I’m out! Lol!!
Yep, always loved the idea of being open minded and able hand out with different crowds on my DRZ400SM supermoto rather than being tied to some sort of closed group who are too cool to even wave back. I have nothing against Harleys, I used to think they were "cool" but now it's just the mentality of the people I don't like.
In America a bike that does 0-60 in five seconds is so slow and underpowered that you can't ride one for more than a year before dying if boredom. In the rest of the world, people love that the same bike is cheap to buy, cheap to run, super reliable, faster than most cars on the road, and easier in traffic than a car.
If you can't afford an expensive bike that is so powerful it burns through tires, brakes, and gas; and has short, expensive service intervals, but you refuse to be seen on a cheap, fuel efficient, practical bike then you won't buy many bikes. And that's the US market.
The problem with new bike sales is complex. It's partly price (BMW R1250GS over $20k), partly the fact that there is a huge used bike market, partly the fact that bike upkeep is ridiculously expensive, partly the fact that bikes are competing with so much more for people's attention (sport is far more popular than it used to be i.e. cycling, gym etc, electronics, travel, clothes, food and the internet) and partly increasing restrictions in terms of speed, power and emissions.
Have a great summer, guys. I love your show. Cheers from Switzerland.
Well said. There is definitely multiple causation. I think it is indicative, also, of a shift in values of the general population. The electric bicycle/moped market is surging like crazy. Two wheeled travel isn't as much the issue as the various competing factors that you mentioned.
One thing I’ve never understood is why I never see a motorcycle commercial on tv, occasionally you see a Harley commercial during a sporting event and you see a dirt bike commercial during the super cross race. But you never stop seeing car commercials, beer commercials, etc. makes no sense to me
Yep, coming from India it was also a minor culture shock for me. Back there you'd always see the ads about the latest versions of their bikes during big cricket games (equivalent to football/ super bowl) and what not just as much as car commercials if not more. It was always exciting and since pretty much every adult rides there, I would chat with my dad about the specs and what not. After moving here my parents now they see bikes just like the westerners, "dangerous" and they even try to ignore the conversation, memories from back then every time I bring it up as if they never even existed.
I don't watch TV so I dunno. But you tube has motorcycle ads for me. And sometimes other ads with motorcycles
Phillip w for me as well, but that’s because we are watching motorcycle videos, if you want to get new riders into the sport you would need to advertise to people who aren’t already interested.
I'm 60 years old. I'll probably only ride for another 30 years.
Maybe people are just bored and fed-up with the illusion that buying something will make their lives better. Can’t allow that to happen.
I shy away from encouraging others to get onto a motorcycle. I've seen friends die, hell I even gave up riding myself for more than ten years but the itch to ride came back.
I love riding and would gladly tell anyone who asks how much I enjoy it, but that doesn't mean I would promote it to others or assume that it's right for them.
That's a decision they need to make on their own.
Insurance. Insurance rates for current gen sport bikes are just ridiculous. I recently came very close to pulling the trigger on a Panigale V4 and when I started searching for insurance everything fell apart. Spending 2-3k/year as a person that has never filed a claim to insure that bike is ridiculous. It's not even a cash flow issue. It's just a flagrantly wasteful way to spend 2-3k/year indefinitely. Motorcycle companies want to drive sales? Do something about what it costs to insure the bikes.
My roommate signed papers for a 959 Panigale on a saturday a few weeks ago. Came home and started getting insurance quotes and I had to help him pick his jaw up off the floor..... He terminated the deal and is still riding his 675:). 3-4 years of the insurance rates would have paid for the bike. Something is defiantly off there.
Get a standard/naked. The insurance is way cheaper because they do not classify them as a supersport. My 2018 Street Triple RS sets me back a whopping 500/year full coverage and that is with some tickets.
My tuono was $200 per year. Rsv4, almost same bike, 2000 per year same coverage. Very easy choice.
Neo Smith ya but who wants a street fighter..😂
@@OregonMotorcycle Pretty much anyone over the age of 30. I have a sport bike and it just sits in my garage unless I do a track day which is maybe 3 times a year.
I work from a motorcycle, I commute on a motorcycle, I hobby on a motorcycle, I live motorcycles. If I hear one outside, somehow now I am outside. Once you get the fever you get it for life. Keep making these vids guys, talking bikes is my jam. Well done and much luv from Australia!!!
Cheers m8....
Just curious in Australia how do motorcycle licenses work? Do you have to start with a 125cc or is it more like the states where once your licensed you can ride anything? Greetings from Virginia.
@@daynmitchell7543 Goes by displacement. I started on an R3, but some people started on a 500. You just check the Learner Approved Motorcycle Scheme (LAMS) website to check if your bike is learner legal.
All motorcycle/offroad atv's are all expensive, not everybody has the money nor the credit now a days. Cost of living has soared, rents have gone up, taxes have gone up as well.
I'm a millenial, and just bought a 2019 Yamaha MT09. But I've also been riding dirt bikes since I was knee high to a grasshopper, my current dirt bike being a YZ450F.
Thank you for your service to millenialism Zachary.
I wonder if it's people cant justify buying a bike when their 40k deep in student loans and live paycheck to paycheck
I'm more of a car guy than a motorcycle guy but if I'm right you can get some awesome bikes under 10k new right? Cuz 10k on a car isn't getting you shit unless it's used
Dr Potato you can get a decent used bike for half the price with low miles
I’m neck deep in student loans and my passion is bikes so I follow it
Yeah, lots of amazing used bikes out there with very little miles for a fraction of new price. That's the main reason new sales are down. There is just a ton of great inventory from the pre08 boom.
@@TheFIREFLAME53 I get that but if a good used bike can be had for 5k like an sv650 or Idk Yamaha r3 why not pick up a part time job or even another full time one? Sounds crazy I know and I don't know your situation fully but there's lots of car guys that spend stupid amounts of money on their cars like 10-20k will get you a nice used sports car but for bikes thats brand new bike territory. As an outsider motorcycles guys seem cheaper than us car guys like I saw some guy say he wouldnt buy a panigalle because the insurance was 2-3k but for car guys that shit is pretty normal and it's seen as the price you pay for this crazy hobby.
There is a big hole y'all are just touching on. It's not just motorcycles. It's the whole economy. You have the majority of being shifted to the top 1% in the last 40 years. You have more and more tax burden falling on the middle class. Shrinking disposable income that would strengthen the economy. You 40 years of stagnant wages while productivity has been going up. The reason your higher priced motorcycles are dropping and dual sport is rising is because it's cheaper to have fun on. I ride a dual sport as my 9nly transportation because it's the only thing I can afford to use. If I could afford a new speed twin I would. People with families have to have the most practical cost effective modes of transport. If motorcycles are going to survive in our current economic direction they will have to be cheap and practical.
I agree with you but I think despite this people would still buy if we could lane split. I moved from California and its just annoying to try to commute on a bike. Everywhere else in the world has more people commuting on bikes.
It is astounding how much attention the royal enfield line up is getting, isn't it?
@@bobm9509 I have noticed a lot more attention to RE. They are really poised to dominate a big section in an economic demographic.
Their Himalayan actually made me price dual sport bikes for the first time in a long time.
People stopped being cool not the bikes.....😎im fly as hell on my Yamaha
Yep, most people today are bland as white bread and just have no excitement in their lives.
@@raydavison2972 lol, as a transgirl who works as a webcam model on chaturbate and looking to start racing, I highly disagree with that bland assumption. Good habit to pick up after I quit injecting speedballs, although it's about as pricey.
@@trikkinikki970 I would say that you do not identify with the majority!
@@raydavison2972 I hear that. Too many people are worried about what others think or judgments or just silly stuff instead of embracing their passions and living their lives. Most are too afraid to deter from the norm.
@@trikkinikki970 why tf are you giving us all this irrelevant detail about your life lmao
I kind of agree with Lemmy's hot take: motorcycle sales may suck, but I don't really care. I've done my part to help out the motorcycle industry. I've paid my monies / dues (I have two fairly new motorcycles in my garage, a 2017 Yamaha S10 and a 2019 Kawa H2SX). The thing that gets me is that the motorcycle industry doesn't really promote its own self. In mainstream media, I see more moto-specific ads or marketing campaigns coming from insurance companies. When was the last time you've seen a specific, targeted ad from a motorcycle OEM that wasn't in a motorcycle publication?
On the side of motorcycles not being cool, I don't think that's the case. I think that people are more concerned with their overall safety and well-being, and riding a motorcycle seriously detracts from that.
For better or worse, I am a used bike consumer until I retire at the least....it's not that I don't care that sales are in the toilet, I just can't do anything about it...I gotta have a new cage at some point too, and because of my commute and need to work in all weather it has to have AWD, add that into the cost!
I'm with you. I'm not the only one in the house and the Misses doesn't ride, got kids to drive to school, so the cage must be purchased. I do plan on buying another bike this year though.
I'm a used vehicle consumer in general. I buy used, ride or drive until it becomes too expensive to repair, repeat.
With all 4 bikes I've owned I always planned on buying new and then a killer deal would pop up on a used bike that just makes so much more sense. I get it with some of the new bikes with so much tech why they need to charge so much, but with old bikes they haven't changed in years I think they could really bring the price down and It wouldn't hurt them much.
@Evo Shift But that's a good thing. Someone who wants to sell their ride to buy a new one. That means someone else gets a used bike and a dealer can sell a new one. It's the circle of bikes, lol!
Edit: That's how I scored a nice second hand SV650s... because somebody else wanted to get a new bike. Thats a win-win.
Let us take a look at the location of motorcycle dealerships. Where I live, there are 2 dealerships. One mini metric dealer, and the Juggernaut that is Harley Davidson. I have always seen the more experienced riders ride what they can wrench on. Brand doesn't matter as much. For the "normal" rider who is not a hobbyist, they frequent the dealership for everything the machine requires. Changing oil is definitely not on the schedule. Society as a whole has put big brands like Harley Davidson on a pedestal as "the only bike worthy of driving." If you're over a certain age, this has become almost common knowledge. The anomaly is that the younger rider refuses to accept common knowledge. American classics, or classics in general do not interest the upcoming riders. Paying $20,000 or $40,000 for a new Harley is not going to cut it. Being able to maintain a motorcycle is costly. No matter the brand, therefore most people will be searching for the bike that comes with the support for it. Dealers, service shops and knowledgeable people are needed in order to make it easier for "Joe Average" to even become interested. The only problem seems to be, is it worth it to the owner of a dealership? the technicians who make repairs? salesmen?
So the problem here is that my generation (your early to mid 20's people) has no money to buy a new bike, but they also don't have the mechanical know-how to buy an old bike and make it run like new? If that's what you're trying to say, then I'd have to agree
Amen Spurge! The last point made. I love you “three idiots sitting on a couch” - keep up the great work and enjoy ur summer break guys!
In the US we have an arms race of larger 'safer' vehicles that's pushing smaller more efficient vehicles out of the market. Motorcycles aren't the only casualty of this; look at car sales. As more people buy oversized heavy SUVs, it makes driving a car less safe. Ford and Chrysler no longer sell any compact cars in the US.
The technical driver aids that enable distracted driving is the newest part of this arms race that scares me as a rider. (I don't care if a 2500 pound car or a 5000 pound SUV hits me on a bike.) I am scared by the drivers who are trusting in their cars to brake for them, check their blind spots for them, slow down for them, and even just tell them when to look up from their phones. These driver aids try to detect large fast moving objects (SUVs and cars) and some of the more advanced ones try to detect small slow moving objects (pedestrians.) I don't know if they've been designed to detect and avoid hitting small fast moving objects (motorcycles.) That scares me but not as much as how much safer these aids make drivers feel driving under the influence of their smart phones.
After watching Stranger Things earlier today Spurge looks like David Harbour's stunt double.
Dude. Lol. Im rewatching ST first season right now and thought the same thing.
Im not even watching ST but i thought that straight away too.
Lol that's so true
Next season on Strange Things: Hopper gets a new-to-him 3-year-old Virago!!
I've been campaigning hard on IG to get Netflix to pilot a series called "The Adventures of Young Sheriff Hopper". I will then pitch myself to be cast as the young Hopper. I am dead serious about this, so if any of you out there know anyone at Netflix, don't be hesitant to put me in touch!
Lemmy. You are welcome anytime you want. Come by, we'll ride the Bajaj pulsar all over the Himalayas.
When I was 18 I bought my first motorcycle. A used 1989 gsxr 750 Slingshot. My parents kicked me out. My dad was sure I would kill myself. Fast forward 20 years, my family is used to my riding. My wife has zero interest in it however. Yet every time I take my helmet out of the closet, my wife looks like it's time to get the funeral ready. I have never had an accident where I was badly hurt. Most people in my age group, 35-45, don't ride, want nothing to do with riding, and treat it as if it was an adrenaline type activity like base jumping or bungee. It is no longer a mode of transport, it is an dangerous X sport. I love riding and commute to work maybe 20 times a year, but every time I do, coworkers or clients make comments about being careful and "danger" and just general distrust of riders. It's definitely a sad time for motorcycle riding.
OldFrankHog that’s so sad man, their has to be a way to show people it’s not scary at all
You love riding but you only commute to work 20 times a year? If you rode your bike to work every day, you would normalize it and your wife and coworkers would stop acknowledging it. You need to ride often enough to were riding a motorcycle for you is a way of life, not an event
@@n40798 I live 60km from work and drive 2 other people to work every day. I can only ride my bike to work when I am by myself.
As a person who has had bikes from Ninja 250r, SV650, fz1, Buell, R6, R1 and S1000RR. I can tell you why, a Japanese literbike has gone from 10k to 17k which use to be exotic territory. Millennials like me see the price and say, hey I can get a honda civic for the price of that bike.
Just got a great deal on a new 2018 GSXS750. Best bang for your buck motorcycle! I plan on keeping this bike no matter what. The induction noise and stock exhaust sound amazing. Motorcycling is an addiction for sure.
I’ve been riding for 30 years started with my Honda Trail 90 and now my Triumph Truxton. I’ve seen it go from; "Oh you ride? That’s so cool. Now it’s; You ride? That’s so dangerous! I know someone who knows someone who got into an accident.” Whatever.
Steve Richardson Right there with you, 35 years on a bike from my Honda Trail 70 to my Hypermotard 1100. And what you said is 100% accurate
I care! I agree with spurg that even though we're not selling bikes on behalf of OEM's, it's to every riders benefit to promote the hobby. Bringing in new riders and interests will keep sales up, which then motivates manufacturers to keep producing and innovating, thus keeping the industry alive, even grow, and hopefully affordable for everyone.
Note to self. Need to make motorcycles cool again. On it guys! Seriously though, this was the first episode of the podcast I've seen but love what you guys are doing. Hopefully, nobody gets canned and I can watch more in September!
Say you are going to the store, and you have a motorcycle, and a car in your garage. It's a hot summer day. So do you climb in your car which has A/C, or do you put all your body armor on,helmet, gloves. Not to mention risking your life against distracted drivers.
Great talk guys. You glazed over two issues: used bikes are amazing value, and insurance is expensive. Together it contributes to people not buying new
Alright, my .02 - I think Lemmy and Spurge are talking about two distinct things. Spurge is saying customers have a onus to represent motorcycling culture in as best a light as they can (eg, stop with the 100+ mph lane splitting, squids!). Lemmy's saying that the business end of motorcycling (selling bikes and accessories) is on the manufacturers, NOT the individuals. Y'all are both correct :) And Spurge, right on - us idiots sitting through the entire discussion? Yeah, we got a vested interest in seeing the thing we love continue to thrive and prosper!
I’m 58 and just bought my first bike. I really do care about bike sales. I feel the more riders there are the safer the roads are
Motorcycles cost too much for insurance and maintenance. Why does it cost more than double for 2 tires for my Goldwing vs. 4 tires for my econo car with a heater and A/C? Shop rates are higher than the Mercedes Benz dealer!
Money is a big part of it. I've always had a passion for riding and have only had one chance to buy a new bike. CBR 600,... only to be stolen a few months later. Fast forward 20 years and I had a handful of others. Now, still being strapped for cash and forking out 1k/month in CS, I managed to pick up a CL r6 for 450. A lil love and hard work and Im riding again. It took two really substantial things to get me back on 2 wheels. Passion and my mechanical abilities is what got my broke ass on a bike. So many of our younger folks cant even change their tire or oil so theres no way they could build up a project bike. Top that off with almost everyone I know having a student loan bill every month. Then take a drive to a dealer..... Bike are pricey when new and insurance is through the roof on some of these higher end bikes. Top that off with weather in certain climate areas and you get everyone wanting the new honda or something practical... It takes a certain breed to "want" to ride and that breed might be falling off a bit.
We have become a society of pansies, that hold ourselves back. We get constantly told if you act like a man, then you are being "toxic" and "problematic". No longer is being an "alpha" male socially acceptable, and riding something that seems dangerous, rebelous, and bad ass...well isn't acceptable anymore. In other countries motorcycles and/or scooters are seen as reliable and cheap transportation. Especially, when you can't readily afford a car. Even, in the UK when they are closes thing to us in the US...it's seen as transportation and NOT a toy. So, there are a few reasons to why motorcycles have "lost their acceptance". I feel in love with motorcycles through riding bicycles from the time I could walk(still ride today), then started off on 50cc scooters (then moved up through 150cc to 650cc scooters). I have rode different motorcycles and scooters, because I love being on 2 wheels...plus I own a car. Hell, I still ride my bicycle, MTB and city riding...because I love 2 wheels. Motorized or not. I feel the more people convincing their friends and family that bikes are awesome...the more riders we will have on the rode.
I think people are saying it's to dangerous. All I hear people say to me is "I wouldn't ride with how bad the traffic is. And people dont pay attention."
I've been riding for 8 years and driving for 12. Distracted driving was bad when I started but it's gotten so much worse.
I have a lot of co-workers telling me how they used to ride, but don't trust the drivers anymore.
@dave eldridge
Now you know one more.
I’m the people who are watching this video and I do not care about the success of a company. Motorcycle, computer, instrument, clothing...any company that is failing is failing because they failed to either meet the demands of consumers or are not creating goods that interest consumers. Quality marketing for decent bikes at decent price points will sell way more bikes than a bunch of motorcyclists trying to convince their friends to buy a bike. But when you have Harley heavily promoting a $30k electric bike with trash mileage, that’s gonna shut down whatever interest was built up real quick. So what happens then is people buy used and the ones that love It buy a new one in time while everybody else becomes one of those people who says “wow, yeah...I used to ride a triumph in the 80s.” In the US, it’s almost exclusively for hobbiests. Motorcycle companies need to figure out how to market why we NEED a motorcycle. Right now they are playing off the whole out dated image of being a rebel or taking It out on PCH and ride the coastal sunset...they are selling us a hobby. They are still grasping at people who grew up riding, like you guys..when they need to be grasping at teenagers and college kids and young professionals. Just my two cents here.
Motorcycle sales are down probably cause alot of people cant drive a manual transmission. Look at all the cars and trucks that are automatic now. Motorcycles require the ability to switch gears.
Nope. Ain't care. I really enjoy Riding but, I don't care about all the imaginary financial burden or social obligation you've made up for motorcyclists to care about; it just doesn't matter to me
The 2020 bikes are coming out and I see new 2018's still on the floor. The traditional HD riders are getting older and don't ride much and aren't buying new bikes. Many factors overall.
T Sav I’m not worried about it. Discounts for me!
Thanks to you guys and some motovloggers I've finally decided to pull the trigger. Taking my msf basic course next weekend, I've wanted to ride ever since I was a kid and now at 31 I will finally do it. But I will say the cost is definitely a huge factor, I'm going to the private market for a bike and not financing one.
Love these High Side/Low Side podcasts and videos. Can't wait until September! Get out and ride!!
What's in September?
I just want to say that i love these high side low side discussions/ podcasts. I hope they continue after the summer break. Let the people at revzilla know we want more! :-)
I live in N. Indiana next to a Major University (Notre Dame). There is 1 Harley dealer. I have to drive 30 miles to see a Yamaha or Indian . No Honda dealer, No Suzuki or Kawasaki..don't even look for a Moto Guzzi or Triumph around here.
Tardisius You think that’s bad? Try rural ND there is nothing here... *NOTHING.*
The only Triumph dealer left the state last year.
There are three reasons I'm vested in the manufacturer's success.
1st. If they sell more bikes like mine, more aftermarket companies are going to invest in making products for my bike, giving me more options to customize and improve performance.
2nd. If they are financially healthy, they are generally not going to cut too many corners sacrificing quality and reliability. Which leads to the third point...
3rd. If they are making money, the make a great fun and reliable bike, not only they will stay in business, but they will help keep my bike's resale value high.
Getting more for my bike when I sell it will allow me to get a better bike next time, and if I see the benefits of the company translating into more fun/$ spent, it will encourage me to stay brand loyal. Win-win situation.
If they go out of business my resale value goes significantly down, unless I want to wait about 30 years in hopes that my KLR650 becomes a "collectible classic"...fat chance.
The drop in the US is due to Harley sales tanking. Other makers like BMW are up.
Live Wire will push sales through the roof...people have $30K in their pockets burning holes.
In Nashville Tennessee bikes of all types are everywhere. Here's the thing, what's the most popular adventure bike this year. Answer, the Royal Enfield Himalayan and the rest of their bikes that are cool and retro but with ABS. It's the price boys I'm telling you. I love Harley and would love to have a street glide but 20K plus.......sorry I don't have the money so I ride a Vulcan Classic.
In North America bikes are seen as a luxury item older people have more money, and Harley plays to wannabe “baddass” middle aged or older white males. Young people find the “Harley biker” image trashy and want nothing to do with it. So there is that. So motorcycles didn’t stop being cool, but Harley and what they represent did. Unfortunately that’s over half the bikes on the road.
Been riding since 1968. As in any high risk sport, motorcycling has always been dangerous; nothing new. You can live with or without the spice of risk. One reason why i'm still around is 'cause I take mine in in measured dosis. I only ride when my game is up psychologically & physically. Add physical protection and learned riding skills; you can lower the odds enough to satisfy almost any mom (or wife).
People have become pussified that is a fact and the number one reason motorcycle riding is not as popular. The other reason is inflation, the cost of living, and the fact that a motorcycle is a want and not a need (reverse that shit for me). If I had a dollar for every time someone told me that motorcycles are dangerous and not worth the risk, I would be able to get me a brand new BMW S1000 M edition -- cash. On the flip side, I am a single father of an 11 year old boy, I hope he has no interest in wanting a motorcycle due to the risk and the fact my son is all I have. When he becomes an adult, he can get what he wants, but I am not promoting riding in my family.
Not enough said about distracted car drivers. Can’t count the number of former riders telling me they gave up riding because of cell phones. “I never saw him, officer” , rider dead should = manslaughter charges. We should be seeing PSA’s on tv every hour on every station educating drivers of the life and death consequences of cellphone in cars.
Coming back from a ride.
Looking at my subscriptions.
Seeing a revzilla podcast.
Happy boi mode
Saaaaame
@@Twinspinner they make people smile
I didn't by my 1st bike until I was 29 years old. The reason why is I couldn't afford one and like you guys talked about and it is a lot easier to buy a tv and xbox and call it a day. But now that I ride, its all I ever want to do or talk about.
I finally got my best friend and his wife wanting to ride, but only after I told them out of experience its not as dangerous as it sounds as long as you ride defensively. Now they have the interest its the cost holding them back. The cost of a new bike isn't terrible especially since they're interested in an MT07 and a Z400 but you also have to factor in gear for 1st time buyers plus insurance. With 2 kids, a morgage and a handful of needed repairs around the house.
For my friends that do have some extra cash it really is the other fun things out there thats holding them back. The interest is out there, but they'd rather buy a new gun, get more tattos or finally buy their dream car.
I care! Just purchased a new 2019 Suzuki v-strom 650 and I hope that Suzuki stays in business long enough that I can buy or upgrade a few years down the road. Just keep riding!
I'm sorry.
Welcome to the Wee world. I bought mine last year and added a gsx s750 brother to it this year. The bikes are bulletproof.
Great video, great season, thanks guys. I rode neighbor's dirt bikes as a kid (no one in my family rode) but wrecked pretty bad and that slowed down my interest. Most of my adult life I just never really thought about them. I was doing backcountry stuff on foot, on skis, in boats, on horses, and bikes just weren't a thing. Fast forward to my 50's and a good friend talked me into getting a bike (wasn't Spurge!). My wife was reluctant, and my kid worried about it. In my safety training course for my license, the stat was riding a moto was 27x as dangerous as a car. 27 times! I'm surprised my wife still supported me. I've been riding 4 years now, and love it so much. I preach, but I also understand how dangerous it is with all the distracted drivers, and young idiots on the road in super comfy, super quiet, super techy cars they don't even see anyone else on the road, and it gives me pause. I mitigate by not riding at night, during rush hour, in town, etc., but I still think a lot about it. It's not my skills I worry about, its some idiot not paying attention to others sharing the world with them. Will I ride forever? I don't know. I do appreciate the newer tech aimed at safety, but there is only so much you can do. But I do appreciate the culture, love the thrill and the challenge, and hope that all those other drivers see me so that I can do it as long as I feel the urge.
Millennial's are the "nurtured" generation. As young kids they could play in the backyard for a limited time (wouldn't want those pesky allergies to affect lil' Justin". A small percentage had a bicycle that they could ride on the approved bike trail with mom and dad on their bikes with baby sister in the tag along (don't forget the 6' flag for visibility!). So it makes sense that that generation shy's aware from the inherently dangerous motorcycle. not to mention that the stigma of 'biker' culture, whether HD stereotypes, or street Rossi's and cafe ruffians go against their soft ideologies. The older generations are buying less because of increase in traffic and the evaporating 'biker' culture that they found alluring. Plus not to mention, the industry continues to elevate prices so that they can get more ROI. I would love to have a garage full of newish bikes but the majority of bikes I magnate towards are almost to car price. A larger selection of interesting, quality bikes above 500cc's in the $5K - $8K range would be attractive to younger generations IMO.
I dont agree with the nurtured culture part, i think that most millennials just actually care about the world around them instead of selfishly thinking. I also think most millennials believe in practicality, and motorcycles are just not practical. Its a hobby. These a reason why almost everyone who owns a bike also owns a car, but only a small percentage who own a car also own a bike. Why own 2 different vehicles when 1 has weather, and seating restrictions? Its just not smart. Millennials grew up during some of the worst times in our economy, including the recession. The watched parents get laid off and struggle. Theyve seen grandparents lose homes theyve had for 40 years, And now many cant afford to have anything extra coming out of their paycheck such as motorcycle insurance during the down season and etc. Or they simply see the bigger picture and would rather hold onto that money. Theres a reason why tiny homes are becoming popular. Theyre practical, economically feasible, and affordable. Why get a $6,000 bike and still need a car when you can get an $8,000 car and be done?
But the biker cultrue part is dead on though.
@mld as you're on youtube watching videos and responding to comments
@@shayslay3416 Respectfully, if you think millennials are the only generation to care about the "world around them", you are sorely mistaken and showing your age group and I'm not clear how that is relevant to sagging motorcycle sales. Also to note, previous generations lived through (or were children of those who did) actual depression rather than a fairly mild recession. Your comments are very much in line with the sheltered, self centered outlook millennials have, no offense intended. Millennials are very enthusiastic about EV's however so its possible when affordable, practical electric options are available, sales will reflect. I think the LiveWire is a step in the right direction as an option, not a replacement. I personally would never pay that much money for one, but those prices will come down eventually.
@@racer2c i never said millenials were the only group who care about the enviornment. But are they the biggest group putting their money where their mouths are? Yes, absolutely. And there are statistics to back that up. They are literally pushing for more sustainable changes which is why we see fast food chains giving up plastic straws and cups, the tiny home movement, and minimalism rising. And it directly relates to sagging motorcycle sales because motorcycles arent practical. Coming from the stance that the majority of people will also need cars as well as the bike. So why waste the resources on creating bikes when for most people, it wont be the sole form of transportation. Why even buy something that burns gas and creates emissions when youll need something bigger on the day to day life anyway? More and more millenials are turning to more efficient and enviornmentally friendly forms of transportation such as public transit. And there are affordable EV's such as the nissan leaf, the prius, smart for two, and etc. Even teslas model 3 is down to $35,000 which is a step for them. If Zero bikes can cut down on costs in the future, then i think we will see more millenial riders. But its still not practical on a value sense, so probably not by much.
And yes, some people still living did go through the great depression. But they came out of it with an amazing economy, social programs, affordable housing, cheap education, livable minimum wages, incredible job growth which meant most didnt need minimum wage jobs because more oportunity was available, and an abundance of other resources, which is why that generation started having kids, aka, the baby boomers. Who in general, did not have to struggle much because they had the same benefits, unless they were hit by the recent recession later in their adult life after being 40+ years deep into establishing their lives.
The boomers did not live through the great depression, but the millenials lived through the recession, are battling the housing markets, the price of education, the lack of high leveled jobs, terrible pays and etc. And the generation before the boomers are not the ones on bikes. So while i get your point, its a little off gear. Millennials are more likely to be worried about sustainability and funding their own retirement accounts than everyone else because social security will probably be gone. And a fun hobby that costs money doesnt fit in that mold. Older generations dont have as much to worry about. And thus is why i stand the way i do.
@mld im not saying that older people who lost their homes are anyones fault but their own. Im just saying that young people watched it happen and had their families security knocked from under them. Your heartless attitude in the sake of the matter does say a lot about the era that you may have grown up in though. And it seems to be a very self centered snobby one that lacks empathy and value for anyone elses situation but your own lol. Im not going to guess who that sounds like though 😂
So many good points being made. My take away, overall, is that we should all be trying to do our part to keep the culture healthy so that manufacturers can continue to engage their customers with products and bikes that they actually want, rather than shrinking into obsolescence and maintaining relevance with just the select few. It’s a tough market these days, that’s for sure. Also, Lemmy it was nice meeting you yesterday!
I bought a new bike because I don't like the idea of someone else wrenching on it before me. Plus, 6 yr warranty in case my KTM blows up.
Enjoy your break guys! Ride safe!
Nothing wrong with that. The idea of not knowing what the bike had been through also triggers my OCD.
Or lack of wrenching :/
6 yrs! Prob a good idea with a pumpkin. Bikes are worth buying new, but not cars and trucks.
Don’t matter to me, I got mine. When I want a new one there will be something I like. Sales numbers only matter to stock holders
I am 63 years old now and been riding since I was 35 and I have never owned a brand new bike . I have owned 3 used bike and M riding a 2004 Yamaha FJR 1300 I love my bike but if I had the Expendable income I would probably own more motorcycles
modern bikes cost WAY to much !!! when you have to choose between a new car and a motorcycle because they cost nearly the same ! then its no wonder sales are down.
@mld what bikes are these mld ? please give some examples.
In Germany the biggest point pushing me to ride bikes is the lack of parking space. And coming with it the flexibility I could get just stopping where I want to go not where I can park.
Learned to love small displacement "bikes" in Vietnam, but in 'murcia People seems to like only "Real Bikes".
If you want parts and support for your bike 10 years down the road, then you should care about the financial health of the company that made it. Ask Victory owners how they feel now. I tend to keep bikes a long time (17 years on a Voyager XII and now 12 years on an LT and a year on a KLR650), so I am quite keen to have BMW and Kawasaki stay in business.
Three intelligent, well spoken people having a real discussion on motorcycling. Non-riders would benefit from watching this....but unfortunately never will. Big fan of the beard Joe.
I am sure dealers will sell more if they cost less. $$$ matter and always have.
I've rode for 34 years. Haven't had a bike for 3 years. My last 2 bikes I owned at the same time were gsxr1000 and Harley Road King. Love riding both of them. Part of not buying one now is all the distracted drivers glued to their cell phones and I'm boating in my free time. I miss riding but having more fun on the water past couple of years. And bikes are huge in SE Asia out of economics and practicality. Been there seen that done that.
I've made my girlfriend ride a motorcycle. She rides a 125cc and loving it.
As a person who has been riding motorcycles for 50 years, I do care about the state of motorcycle sales, for one important reason. When motorcycle manufacturers are being successful and there are more companies out there as a result, there is more innovation in the industry. If it ever comes down to where there are only a handful of companies, there will less incentive to innovate. Even though Harley is struggling (reasons for that are a different topic), when they had virtually no competition, they didn't change their product at all. Bring Indian into the picture and they had to start bringing more technology to their bikes. So if you are a motorcycle enthusiast, I think it does matter.
I bought my first new bike last year, 18 Suzuki v strom 1000xt.
Well done boys! Didnt miss one episode and cant wait for you guys to come back! Stay safe!
Thanks for watching!
For me motorcycles are only a transportation solution and nothing more. I suspect this is the insight that the North American motorcycle industry is missing, too many people in the North American sphere consider this a "power sport", and because of that thinking there is an artificial road block to down pressure on building cost effective products that cater to people looking for cost effective transportation solutions.
My bike is for commuting and cheap transportation and travel. Is it fun? Hell yes, but I wouldn’t own a bike just to cruise on the weekend sometimes. That’s a waste of money to me.
The moment that lane splitting is legalized throughout the States, motorcycle sales would definitely shoot back up again due to the convenience.
Why buy a new 10000$ bike now , when in 4 years ittl be worth 5-6k
Because it's a new bike with new tech and goodies....that isn't 4 years old
@@rewmeister tech on bikes is getting to be too much. Id rather have my , no traction control , no wheelie control, no abs , no stability control, carbed srad!.. but ya ill stick w what i got
.. thats why sales suck
I think a large part of it is related to the fact that far fewer people know how to drive a manual transmission, and one of the things that historically made bikes great and fun was 1) the ability to actually feel the road-- to feel like you were REALLY driving/riding, and 2) the ability to work on your bike, to modify, improve, and customize it, and mechanical know-how has drastically declined too.
A motorcycle being nearly if not more expensive then a car....your sale are going to drop
I am 63, I have been riding since the '70's, different bikes, started w/a Honda CB450, moved on to a full dress '58 Harley PanHead, and back to a Vespa P200E, a Honda Reflex and now a Suzuki Burgman 400. I hope they all stay in business, I want to watch how Royal Enfield does w/their HImaylan, and 650's, as far as price goes they are a steal. We need to make some movies pointing out the practicality oif scooters and bikes to get the younger folks interested.
Motorcycles are not affordable anymore Point Blank period
2 Quick 2 Come 2018 CVO Streetglide... stealership wants $52,000! then wants to rape me by more than 10k on trade-ins of 2 bikes I bought ... from them. It’s not even an Ultra or liquid cooled. 52k?! Told them they were 10k+ High on their bike and 10k low on my bikes. Add the super aggressive sales culture at the stealership, and it’s a wonder they sell anything. It’s sooo unpleasant!
@@millibarman You wear new Harleys, for other people - like overpriced designer clothes. No one admires you personally for how fancy your expensive new Harley is - like the narcissist pricks driving new, Porches. Get a good used bike and it may not lose much value. Some have gone way up. $10-15k will buy a lot of used bike.
I care. The only reason I have a steady job is to ride motorcycles.
If motorcycling doesn't bite you I also understand that.
I wish dealers and OEMs the best of luck, they're responsible for their own marketing/image/sales. If you're not offering me a demo, even a pony ride, I'm not buying your bike.
Thanks for the chat, tres hombres.
Tres Hombres.... I hope that nickname catches on....
You can get FANTASTIC used bikes from 2 to 5 grand. Enjoy!
With low interest rates consumer debt increases. And we now have all time consumer debt!
So I think it's related to consumers not being able to afford motorcycles rather than a loss of interest
I split my fun money between firearms and motorcycles haha
Nice budget forming lol
Good man
Can't argue with that.
Sales might suck but as a first bike owner I couldn't beat the price of my first bike....free. Why would I spend $5000 on a bike that I just might wreck when a used motorcycle can be had for a better price?