Jake and crew from Everything Black Powder are definitely the go-to experts in this field and Jake is a pretty rad guy to boot. I hope that he's gonna chime in at some point. Very knowledgeable guy and it would be an interesting collaboration between y'all.
So, I have a bone to pick... shall we chew? Pyrodex is a different chemical composition than black powder. Pyrodex has a different pressure gradient than black powder. It is not necessarily "more powerful " than black powder. The alternative composition, creates much harder fouling and also is just as corrosive as black powder, causing the barrel to become tersed over time. I just bought a Civil War Carbine that is a good example of what happens when you don't clean your gun after shooting, and I don't doubt the previous owners used Pyrodex (the fouling is so bad, its hard to load a regular undersized soft-swaged lead slug, let alone a full-bore slug.) Pyrodex fouling is notorious for its hardness, sometimes being even harder than the lead being shot from the gun. I actually learned this from personal experience, through my 1865 New Model Army Remington with the 12 inch barrel. It took me a year of shooting and cleaning with various methods to remove the fouling from the original cylinder. It was so bad, I bought a second cylinder partially due to that reason! Pyrodex is garbage. I'll shoot balsa powder before I ever shoot Pyrodex again, and I don't like balsa powder.
We've had some other people mention the terrible fouling as well, and it tracks with our experience on the range. I (Brad) recently bought some black powder, and I'm going to be using it exclusively now (except for specific experiments of course). Thank you for your input!
Nice touch, shooting in honor of the late great Paul Harrell! I wonder if the density of both is the same? Would the results be the same with same weight of powders? Great video!
Pyrodex was always supposed to be a volume equivalent for black powder. Definitely not weight equivalent and that was pointed out to highlight the difference from smokless that is normally measured by weight.
Interesting test. The only difference I ever observed between the two is that black powder seems much easier to ignite. Never a hang fire, whereas sometimes Pyrodex would give me a delay.
Pyrodex: avg-1500fps, SD-26.65fps, ES-50fps BP: avg-1518fps, SD-26.53fps,ES-54fps 18fps difference in average and standard deviations of around 26fps so you can call them basically the same thing And gotta admit for something measured out “volumetrically” pretty dang consistent Gotta admit though ive always shot pyrodex through and of my bp stuff
What I would like to know when you say %20 are you referring to a scale weight or a volumetric weight because I heard volumetric stays the same but weight is where you reduce.
Well, we assumed by volume since that is how you normally measure powder for black powder firearms, but after doing some research, it looks like the difference might be in the weight. Turns out pyrodex is less dense than black powder. We will be doing a follow up video on this soon!
Taking the math a bit farther, 20% of 1500fps = 300fps potential difference, not 18fps. Good test. But let's keep in mind, that is only one gun, but it should hold up. I think I'll try it with my .50 TC Hawken. I have run Pyrodex RS against Pyrodex Select, and not found any appreciable difference. Just like your test. R.I.P. Mr. Harrell.
The substitute more powerful than real B.P is triple7 but that's another can of worms!. Also, there's a difference between Swiss, Schutzen Go-Ex, and of course, home made but again, Jake from Everything Black Powder is litterally inventing every day a new and improved formula for B.P so again, too difficult to compare, best thing to do is to develop a load that works well with your rifle and that's it!
Jake and crew from Everything Black Powder are definitely the go-to experts in this field and Jake is a pretty rad guy to boot. I hope that he's gonna chime in at some point. Very knowledgeable guy and it would be an interesting collaboration between y'all.
Would love to hear from him! Some other people have been recommending his channel on here as well.
having played with both for over 50 years I have come to the conclusion they are very similar but pyrodex burns cleaner with a bit less smoke
We also observed less smoke with the Pyrodex.
wow paul harrells rifle. what an honor to have that!
It is a great honor.
So, I have a bone to pick... shall we chew?
Pyrodex is a different chemical composition than black powder. Pyrodex has a different pressure gradient than black powder. It is not necessarily "more powerful " than black powder.
The alternative composition, creates much harder fouling and also is just as corrosive as black powder, causing the barrel to become tersed over time. I just bought a Civil War Carbine that is a good example of what happens when you don't clean your gun after shooting, and I don't doubt the previous owners used Pyrodex (the fouling is so bad, its hard to load a regular undersized soft-swaged lead slug, let alone a full-bore slug.)
Pyrodex fouling is notorious for its hardness, sometimes being even harder than the lead being shot from the gun. I actually learned this from personal experience, through my 1865 New Model Army Remington with the 12 inch barrel. It took me a year of shooting and cleaning with various methods to remove the fouling from the original cylinder. It was so bad, I bought a second cylinder partially due to that reason!
Pyrodex is garbage. I'll shoot balsa powder before I ever shoot Pyrodex again, and I don't like balsa powder.
We've had some other people mention the terrible fouling as well, and it tracks with our experience on the range. I (Brad) recently bought some black powder, and I'm going to be using it exclusively now (except for specific experiments of course). Thank you for your input!
Nice touch, shooting in honor of the late great Paul Harrell! I wonder if the density of both is the same? Would the results be the same with same weight of powders? Great video!
Thanks! After some research, we found the density is not the same! We will be coming out with a follow up video on this soon.
Pyrodex was always supposed to be a volume equivalent for black powder. Definitely not weight equivalent and that was pointed out to highlight the difference from smokless that is normally measured by weight.
You should do triple 7 Hodgon's powder. When I use it it feels like more powerful.
Might be worth a try!
@@MinutemanTheorytry making your own powder.... that's a good lesson 😊
These days, component AVAILABILITY is my main concern. Its getting difficult to get b.p. not to mention percussion caps.
No kidding! Seems like percussion caps are especially hard to get where we are.
Will barrel length make a difference ?
Pistol vs rifle
I wouldn't think so, but I don't know for sure. Worth testing for sure!
I started muzzleloading with pyrodex. What a mistake. Only use black powder. Much more reliable.
Interesting test. The only difference I ever observed between the two is that black powder seems much easier to ignite. Never a hang fire, whereas sometimes Pyrodex would give me a delay.
What about by volume ?
We were testing by volume. We tested by weight in our follow up video!
Pyrodex: avg-1500fps, SD-26.65fps, ES-50fps
BP: avg-1518fps, SD-26.53fps,ES-54fps
18fps difference in average and standard deviations of around 26fps so you can call them basically the same thing
And gotta admit for something measured out “volumetrically” pretty dang consistent
Gotta admit though ive always shot pyrodex through and of my bp stuff
it would be interesting to mix them 1/2 & 1/2 to see what happens.
What I would like to know when you say %20 are you referring to a scale weight or a volumetric weight because I heard volumetric stays the same but weight is where you reduce.
Well, we assumed by volume since that is how you normally measure powder for black powder firearms, but after doing some research, it looks like the difference might be in the weight. Turns out pyrodex is less dense than black powder. We will be doing a follow up video on this soon!
I started shooting pyrodex in the early 1990s. I was always told the difference was about 5%. Personally, I never notice any difference.
Fun fact: the guy who invented pyrodex got killed when his factory blew up.
For real!? Haha
Granulation size has a larger effect. Compare 2f to 3f.
That's a great idea! Adding it to the list!
Taking the math a bit farther, 20% of 1500fps = 300fps potential difference, not 18fps. Good test. But let's keep in mind, that is only one gun, but it should hold up. I think I'll try it with my .50 TC Hawken. I have run Pyrodex RS against Pyrodex Select, and not found any appreciable difference. Just like your test. R.I.P. Mr. Harrell.
Definitely! We only tried it in the one gun, and everyone's gun is a bit different.
Legends never die. RIP Paul Harrell.
The substitute more powerful than real B.P is triple7 but that's another can of worms!. Also, there's a difference between Swiss, Schutzen Go-Ex, and of course, home made but again, Jake from Everything Black Powder is litterally inventing every day a new and improved formula for B.P so again, too difficult to compare, best thing to do is to develop a load that works well with your rifle and that's it!
Triple 7 has more power than black. Try it and see!
No grains man, volume.
We were measuring in volume. Our powder measures are labeled in grains