People have been calling for more mini-raids like Trial of Valor for years; this tier, we got two 4-boss raids released two weeks apart from each other! Thanks Blizzard for listening to our feedback!
The biggest group that played M+ in Dragonflight is completely shafted now. The people who played 14, 16, 17 keys with the goal to get good enough gear to achieve +20 Portals at the middle to end of the season. Now you only get the best gear at lvl 10s (fomerly 20) keys what last seasons was the ENDGOAL. The reward structure is just completely off. And thats not a hit on Delves, they are pretty ok and the loot is fine in my opinion.
This. My goal is KSH and portals. Myth track gear is basically "worthless". By the time I get it, I won't use it because I'll already have accomplished my goal and odds are once I'm done with 10s I'll have had such a miserable time I will be unable to find enjoyment in the dungeons to continue beyond 10s.
Couldn't agree more. Myth track coming only from 10s and the general difficulty curve is my only real complaint from this entire expansion so far. It just feels terrible not being able to pug, I find myself only being able to play the game when my friends are on, the second someone wants to play an alt it's pretty much gonna be just season over for our group... idk. It just feels terrible trying to 2 chest an easy 8 so that we can no leaver a 10 siege or whatever for 1 myth slot and knowing it'll be probably a deplete and 5 crests, idk it just feels like shit. And once I get the portals, I'm done. Idk it just feels bad.
Actually you only needed 18’s for myth track, 20 just gave myth starting at 1 ilvl higher than 18. So 10s aren’t even comparable. I think 9s should drop myth and 8s drop guided crests. Btw I’m pug clearing 10s now I I still want these changes. It’s not fun, it’s stressful work.
I think the key squish was fine, where they completely lost me adjusting the rewards track forward. I'm fairly sure 0 keys dropped champ gear, 7s would give you the end tier crest and 8s would give you a mythic track option. There was literally no reason for them to change that, I have heard the theory they moved down 0s to veteran to prop up delves and if that shift has cascaded up to the rewards from 9 and 10 keys, that was blizzard having a big case of the stupids.
I mean each to their own but if you cannot time a 9 or a 10 then why should you have access to the best gear from vault? There is absolutely zero challenge in running an 8 for best vault rewards and 6s for the best crests.
It’s not about challenge. It’s about progression. If I want a challenge I’ll push 12s and higher. But to get there, there has to be a stepping stone. I see it as 8/9 are my chores. 10s for portal reward and 12+ can be for sweats. That seems like reasonable progression.
@@mattc6056 I never mentioned not doing 9s or 10s, I have. Id also consider myself semi-competitive at the game with some 3k seasons and 7/9 mythic raiding prog. To say that there is zero challenge in 8s when the bleeding edge world first keys being ran right now are 12s-14s is a little bit unhinged to me. if you run in comms with a bunch of competent people, it definitively can be easier. perhaps you play the game on easy mode (death knight) have a skewed view of how hard this game actually is.
@@kfactor99 that's good and fine and i agree, but I feel like the degree of separation between world first keys and mythic vault slot and crest farm should be more than 3-4. literally the best timed of some keys are 12s, that is with 625 people stacking comp and in comms. I think for the health of the game blizzard needs to rein in the difficulty of its competitive content. Ive already experienced friends dropping out this season for the November patch when the content has been nerfed 8 more times and the game is refreshed. and honestly, they are fucking right. Ruby and AA were both atomic when they were released, would be nice if it didnt take 10 passes with the nerf wand to make a key something you looked forward to.
The crests that average players need aka gilded and even Runed crests I would not describe as abundant. Especially if you don't love doing m+. Growl, it definitely does not feel like you can ignore M+, you need crests to upgrade and that really only can be farmed from M+.
Hey guys. Y'all put on a really good WoW podcast. You've got good discussions, point of view differences, and strong speaking voices. Really been enjoying this coming out every week. Just wanted to shout out some support. Keep it up friends!
My cook for fixing M+ gearing is adding bountiful chests to 10 keys and above with a chance at myth track gear. Players would get 4 keys a week and would be on a seasonal cap, giving players a catch-up/incentive to play alts later in the season.
Casual AOTC chaser this tier after raiding mythic in the past. Trying to shepherd some new friends into M+. We are now stuck in the 6-8 range, we are all capped on Runed and Valor and can't do 9s to get Gilded, so there's no progress to be had. It's rather frustrating.
Kinda been my experience too, I really can’t understand what would have been so bad having the previous set up in s4 last expac where u started getting top crests in 6’s and myth vault loot in 7’s. Right now it’s actually kind of just disturbing where ur vault loot from m+ is the SAME (sure maybe it’s higher ilvl with higher key fine) from 3-9 like how tf? Why so stingy there’s nothing “broken” about being able to more handily get ONE feckin myth piece a week let only the crests. This is on top of clear over tuning, absurd fotm classes, 2 more upgrade tracks on myth gear, needing NINETY of the top crest just to craft the highest pieces, and then there’s the affixes where, sure we might not have the really annoying ones anymore, but wtf is with “challengers peril” that +15 seconds on top of the base 5 second timer loss is absurdly brutal in m+ as it stands with that affix at 7 or higher ur just expected to run the key deathless on top of it all and I am DREADING whenever my guild and I get to 10’s where we get to enjoy tyrannical AND fortified like wtf did we do to essentially receive a massive demotion to the way we got to play before?
What ilvl are you guys? If youre capped and cant do 9s that shouldnt be because the system that should be about your game play. 9-10 are definitely hard, but not impossible.
@@pupsymus Of course it's a skill issue 3 players are new. The squish has eliminated the intro curve and now we just hit a wall until people get better at the game. But there's almost 0 gear to be had and 0 upgrade materials.
The problem with keys and crests now is that if you aren't raiding you have to do 9 keys to get giled crests but you need gear that requires giled crests in order to just do those 9 keys. This is the same problem with delves, sure you can get hero track from delves but you can't upgrade them very much without the ability to do 9's so most of those players are just capped at like 616 and can't get an invite to 9's without 620+ gear
Idk, can't you get invites for 9+ if you have a cleared 8+ or 7++ on your profile ? So far the M+ pugging experience for me as been a bit grindy but usually if I have timed a key 1 or 2 levels below there is a chance I get invited. Fury Warr sitting at 611 and 1850 some score atm, have most things done in the 6 range and I'm fairly sure I'll get invites to 8s next week and 9-10s once I've cleared those as well. And if it really suddenly becomes more restrictive then I can just play my own key since it will be in the 10 range and according to the previous logic I should be able to find a lot of people. Imo if there is one thing I'm going to criticise it's the amount of heroic crests you get from 8+ delves. You get showered in loot but 0 crests so you are funneled into doing M+ or doing the raid in heroic for those crests. I'd increase the crests drops from 2 to 5 guaranteed on an 8 delve, would be more coherent. But all in all I would say I enjoy loot this season as much as DF S3. I think the current crest system since DF is all around a great improvement to loot and I'm thoroughly satisfied with it.
I'm a casual who only pug raids heroic and mostly plays for M+ with friends. I'm just approaching 2100 io this season and it's incredibly stupid that the highest crests only drop from 9s. You're stuck at 4/6 hero gear until you can reliably time 9s but in order to reliably time harder 9s most people need some of the better crests. Not to mention you need 90 to craft your 636 weapon which is ridiculous.
Following up on Growl's tip, the AH search string supports some basic level regex. You can search for multiple items using pipe-delimiter for OR searches, where you search for like: sto dus | glem sha | ref cry | writ sam | vial oil and that will return all the enchanting mats for this expansion: storm dust, gleaming shard, refulgent crystal and the writhing samples and vial of Kaheti Oils. The partial string matching he was talking about does have minimum of 2 characters I believe to work so cannot do like "s d" to look for "storm dust". I know alot of AH addons have shopping lists you can store this type of stuff in but for quick ad-hoc searches for multiple items has come in handy if you don't want or need more addons.
The issue with it going from 6's-9's for max crest is that 6's were used as a nice stepping stone for players to achieve more gear to help them get towards though higher key levels. The other issue with them being at 9's and up is that everyone is now trying to get into a 9 and it makes trying to form a group a thousand times harder for dps players. Its a really bad bottleneck filled with a million leavers.
1:41:35 As a liquid fan, I think that echo had a bunch of unfortunate events happen in a row. They got a bunch of raiders banned pre-raid, they stayed up super late to make up for it even though they probably didn't need to, they fumbled the reclear and deleted their moral... Just a lot of stuff that could have gone a little bit better and snowballed into to a much tighter battle. But at the same time, super excited for the next race because there being 3 legitimate competitors instead of two is very exciting.
As someone doing 9's consistently on my main tank, and 4's as a new healer on my alt. Things are way chiller in higher keys than lower. Yeah, there is some ego you run into, but the pure raw anger and rage quitting happens significantly more in lower keys in my anecdotal experience.
The issue is one shot or near one shots happen earlier than usual so in pisslow keys when you have people not hit defensives they just die. Izo isn't "that hard" after the nerf in a 8 or 9 or whatever when people rotate defensives and do mechanics correctly, but is a nightmare in a like +4 where someone doesn't have defensives bound. I refuse to do Stonevaults below like 8. EDNA and Skarmorax WILL get 3 stacked at every opportunity below that point because people literally don't know mechanics that have been reused for like 15+ years now at this point (let the stupid debuff fall off).
Turns out it's equally hard for healers. There are plenty of keys I either outgear or outnumber in points, and people still won't take me. Mistweaver not good enough, waiting for Shaman.
@@SnarkyLesbian Thats just average pug mental illness, they want bis of the bis and accept nothing else. Better to get some friends and play maybe less hours but way higher quality hours.
Shoutout talking about the M+ squish again. I heal, and have barely run any keys yet this season because there is never a "chill" option. Where in previous seasons anything from +2 to +9 was almost relaxing, the current +2 can be a total shit show if your tank is overconfident or your DPS never watch their feet. Basically it gets sweaty pretty fast. Its especially annoying if there is a class you want to just mess around with. I'm interested in playing HPal, but the odds of me trying a +2 as one is basically zero where I would have tried some low keys in older seasons to feel it out (Heroic dungeons are too easy to replace that and idk that the game ever really thinks about M0s as a real option)
dungeons are also just in a terrible state for encounters. too many casts and mechanics that are disgustingly dangerous all over the place on top of bosses like stitchflesh who is the most egregious "if you don't kill me 1st try your key bricks" boss of all time maybe.
I have said this same take with my friends and guild so many times. Clearly the wow devs wanted casual players to exclusively do delves while the people they considered more "tryhard" were relegated to gearing in difficult dungeon content. The problem is that decision has abandoned possibly the largest portion of the player base which is people who want only moderately challenging content for decent, but not bis gear. Now, you can "casually gear" through delves but delves aren't nearly as fun or compelling as dungeons so you're screwed on both fronts, gearing in a way that you enjoy, or just screwed because you can't do dungeons at all due to them not being casual whatsoever. Then people say "get good" which I mean is somewhat fair, but what happened to the old system which was "just have fun." Just because you have to take on a large amount of personal responsibility to do ALL relevant dungeon content doesn't mean there's been an improvement IMO.
I tried to heal a 6 city of threads the other day as an hpal with friends. FYI I am NOT a healer lol. Did fine until last boss.. then proceeded to wipe incessantly. Holy crap some of these boss fights have absolutely insane HPS checks for absolutely no reason. I couldn't imagine a 10.
As a new player wanting to M+ the lack of a social group has been tough. It’s hard to get accepted into a clique when you don’t have any achieves/experience to show or bring to the table. Gonna keep pushing and being super nice hoping I get a group to hang with regularly. Wish me luck!
I used to do keys around 2-7 to chill on alts (because I play more than my friends). The difficulty of a 2 now is too high for a fresh alt in pugs. M0 is harder than +2 because if you actually do the affix you get a nice buff. I hate that I can't just queue into content. I hate that I can't even get into heroic dungeons now just playing dungeons (which is what I love). I get that the squish was a good thing, but there is still a massive problem at the low low end.
While nerfing items feels bad, it feels 10x worse to know you are doing 10% less dps simply because the item won't drop for you. No item should be left in a state where its 2 to 3 times stronger than any other item.
I can’t get enough of Growl’s cat picture being on various WoW bosses (and potentially mobs in the future!). Queen Growl was my previous top pick but Waffletwister Growl is the new top tier pick!
The only thing Blizz is doing with the M+ changes is scare away even more ppl from playing it. By mid of the season the queue will be ghost town, push groups probably represent almost nothing of the player base I think. Who wants to bash their heads against a much more difficult content with literally trash loot?
I think this tier emphasizes the need for an "all star" mode above mythic that doesn't award additional gear. They already have so many modes, but it could share a lockout with mythic and would basically just be a RWF difficulty raid. Having mythic tuned around RWF and then just waiting for nerfs is such a bad design - it's not entirely Blizz's fault per se, but they do need to find a solution to make RWF and normal CE (even HOF tbh) happy that isn't just "wait until it's nerfed to our level".
I got back to wow recently after several years out. I’m playing resto druid as I used to before. So a lack of skill, limited time and a not-so-hot spec combine to let me know +10 are out of my reach for now. The reason to go back and do dungeons when all the solo stuff gives you decent gear is the competitive spirit I have that I will, eventually, get back to +10s or +11s. Maybe not this tier, but that’s why I subbed for 3 months. I feel a lot of the returning player base shares similar goals of proving to yourself you still “got” it
Specifically regarding shaman dominance and this definitely needs more traction is the addition of downpour. It's a 24 second* for totemic* rallying cry on top of ancestral vigor giving parties with shamans 20% more hp for almost every single mechanic or heal check in the entire game. I feel like I can put out competitive throughput and bring useful utility on other classes, but there are many instances where if I just had that extra 10% hp or 20% hp, the run would be infinitely smoother. As a shaman, I would be 100% on board to remove downpour's HP steroid and nerf vigor to 5%. But I think without proper traction, Blizzard will end up nerfing all the wrong things. As already witnessed by the most recent patch notes with -acid rain damage and -%dr on earth shield.
In regards to Thuns question. I totally agree. As someone who played resto shaman all DF, it feels weird to get all this attention as a class... When very little has changed
If they kept gilded (aspect) crests to like 7's i think this would all be fine. But i cant make heads or tales of whats better dungeons tuned down and keep the tyran fort combo at level 10 or should dungeons stay overall harder per sei but affixes need to be tuned down ( not the rotating affixes just the flat amps fort tyran peril guile etc )
The dungeons are genuinely not fun already on like +9 10's are not timeable atm for pugs for the most part. with the +7 affix i get the feeling of wanting to leave after one wipe instead of in dragon flight, i never got the feeling of wanting to leave after one or 2 wipes.
M+ for the masses end at +10. That is the highest reward giving keystone for the season. And most people are around 605-615 ilvl. They will gradually get to 625+ and these keys will feel a lot better. 10 is the maximum for the season, so there is a good slope of progression from 2 to 10. High key pushers for the first time this season got their own game mode. It's probably unoficially "m++" M++ starts with a huge increase in difficulty that is +12. +11 is the training grounds. M++ is infinitely scaling, and those players will prob get to 635+ ilvl very soon and their game will be between 12's to 20's. I think all is good.
@@vincenthamel3420 the amount of delves you would need to do to 619 your hero/champion gear is insane (not including the 1 piece of 616 you can get from the vault a week). each item to go from hero 1/6 to 4/6 requires 23 completed t8 delves for the 45 crests needed
@@akunomatata7897 again. seems really good deal for content soloable in quest green. but, if it's not enough for you, feel free to do +7 or heroic raid.
@@vincenthamel3420 its supposed to be an end game pillar for solo players by Blizzards own words. basically saying you cant lvl the gear you get from it is a failure of design
@@akunomatata7897 you can level the gear you get from it. You get heroic-track gear from it, which is the top 99% of WoW population will see, you can get runed crest from delve too. Again, and for the last time, how much effin power you want from something sooable in quest green? Is full heroic gear not good enough for you? Delve already made normal mode raiding and M0-6 obsolete because of how much normal-mode track gear it throw at you, is that not enough?
Blizz, after got criticized for stupid affixes: Our "new" philosophy is, play the dungeon NOT the affix. Blizz, after seeing people bought into that lie anyway: And here are "new" affixes that basically scream, PLAY THE AFFIX not THE DUNGEON. In other words, business as usual that's based on lies and it's in their nature. Anyone thought they are changing for real, must be feeling pretty dumb by now. 😑😑
Re: the take on enjoying it as people who like group content. Yes, we like it when we can group, but the problem is our groups have IRL stuff that makes it hard to do 4+ 10s a week together. Pugging them to fill the slots is very rough, and that also means our ability to obtain 10s is also tough
I think, overall the upping of difficulty was a step in the right direction, especially with how free 10s were in season 4. But, that does not change the fact that for a normy, trying to gear is not fun and i would have already stopped playing the season if it wasnt for progging heroic with guild. By making m+ harder and making the loot worse...it is just not fun anymore. I think the difficulty for better players can be refreshing, but i have to raid tonight and then do some m+ to gear for the guild and we still have brood, silken and ansurek to prog /cry Edit: and myth track items are more annoying than anything. Its your goal to get them, but cant target farm shit. If you get 2 myth track staves in back to back weeks, sucks to suck
Growls rant on how tanking feels without an Aug is so real in 11-12 area already had thoughts about rerolling to bear(even though it probably won’t help) because I literally get melted by everything without an aug and if the healer isn’t really good it just feels unplayable
Hard disagree on this m+ ideology being a good thing I enjoy M+ content but usually cap out around a 10 currently and this season there is very little to no reward already for doing below a 10. The weekly Myth track reward and gilded crests could be at a lower key level 8 or 9 and it would be much better but I also think raid great vault should give a weekly item a tier higher than whichever level you were doing.
Wish +6 would still dropp the best crests. There is just a massive jump in difficulty from 6-10 and +6-8 feel absolutely pointless because a 10min delve gives the same or better loot.
ppl asking for nerfs forget this will be nerfed by more ilvl and the raid buff it is week 2 - those bosses should only be nerfed in the way of a hp nerf vor nexus and the broodtwister should have received only nerfs to parasites. Now with the HP Nerf to Brood you will never come close to space issues in the end.
The orb affix can have some of the worse over laps that I’ve seen when it comes to affixes. 2nd boss ara kara has been the most egregious one, the affix was consistently spawning in the area denial phase of the boss. What’s that, don’t have a immunity to go soak, guess the next several dots will be un-healable lol
A hopefully good question this time. Why do you guys think Blizzard is so set on not making visual ques easily visible? They seem to double down and have made them even harder this expac by making them all purple on purple backgrounds For example, when i used to raid in SWTOR, very few people would die to the fire/swirly/aoe cone because it was just a bigass red circle on the ground Josh
What Blizzard needs to do is buff the other healers to match or be better then press. If that mean 50% buff so be it they can always say not in pvp. This way if you are playing a press you can still use it and don't feel bad about nerft.
Dude. Such a good point by growl. If you were invincible every key you’d still time just pulling one pack at a time. Everything in m+ being a survival check gets old. Dps is legit a useless metric.
Idk I just think they should at least start giving out gilded crest in smaller ammounts even for 6-7 and up keys for people to fully upgrade their heroic gear. Maybe I am wrong but whats the point of me getting heroic gear if i cant get gilded crests to fully upgrade it. My guild will never do mythic raids and 9 keys are out of my ability, so i might aswell just upgrade my champion gear fully and thats that, becasue im never gonna upgrade hero gear past 619. And that feels really shitty.
Playing healer is absolutely insane this season. Not being Resto Shaman feels so bad, that even when it's not being barred from invites, I keep scrapping by only barely in runs I do get to join on. Curse dispel, Easy AoE healing, externals for the tank, externals for the group, Bloodlust now that drums got effectively nerfed, being able to heal on range. I (Mistweaver) don't even have a good group buff other than 5% phys damage taken on mobs. While Shamans, the queens of utility, got another awesome buff on top of what they had already. All the healers are so far behind. Druid has a Battle res and curse dispel, but no healing power. And Mistweaver has overall alright numbers, but really not the best utility. Conduit of the Celestials is so weak that I often have to interrupt it to cast better heals. They really dropped the balls in terms of healing balance this season.
The M+ discussion demonstrates how detached the high end player base is with everyone else. The new system just eliminated content from a ton of players and they gave nothing back to those players. Delves fucking suck. It doesnt matter what the reward is, they're trash content. And the fact thay all three commentors view them as a substitute for the old M+ system shows how disconnected they are from a lot of people who used to pug the 10-20 range. Delves arent a susbstitute for thay level of M+, and thay content is mostly gone from pugs now.
So wait their all stuck on the worm 4/8 but what are they going to do with kyvezsa? When they get to it. 😅 Edited- disregard above... I listened to the rest of the vid inc the nerfs and buffs my bad 😁
Good lord I missed the podcast during the race. Edit: apparently I missed an episode during the race. Sorry, I guess? Edit2: I’m running with it being a Poddy C joke. Have a good day y’all.
After pugging and doing guild dungeons this season, man mythic plus is in a really rough spot this expansion, possibly the worst it's ever been in wow's history IMO. The two biggest selling points of M+ and dungeons just in general is that 1)* they're a casual and chill way to get decent gear with opt in difficulty for competitively bis gear and 2)* dungeons are a home for people that aren't comfortable/able/capable of creating a guild group or friend group to progress through raid with and thus build their character. Both of these monumental aspects of the success of dungeons historically feel completely reversed and discarded with the changes to gear acquisition and dungeon difficulty/stop and interrupt reliance in modern keys. Looking out across the reception amongst many content creator's videos, my guilds reception, and my friends reception of widely varying skill levels from top 100 players to gamer dads, reception has been incredibly bleak. People typically respond to complaints with some variety of "Just get better at the game" or "you're a part of the problem" but those responses regularly gloss over the elephant in the room which is that people do not *appear* to be having fun. Compare people's reception to Tazavesh Gambit to the reception of this set of dungeons for context. Thus far the changes to M+ have made almost no element of dungeons more enjoyable which should be the entire point to making any changes in the game, because that's what WoW is, a video game. Most gamer dads and moms, college kids with too much homework, and people working 2 jobs should probably not even touch dungeons and that's a problem (IMO). Even M0's and M2's are more lethal/unpuggable than the vast majority of all dungeon content I can remember throughout my entire time playing WoW. Pushing keys has even gotten considerably more difficult due to the nature of the timer penalty (people are leaving after 1 wipe and depleting keys and with the difficulty squish, depleting a key by 1 is much more relevant now)
Blizz should have a done a better job trinket tuning on beta, its too late now to be nerfing spymasters web when it is for some specs a better trinket than anything else even at normal mode ilvl and honestly its a fun trinket to use. That being said its going to get nerfed going into the next raid cause they wouldn't want it to be more powerful than the new trinkets they add.
@@christaylor3604 you completely misunderstood the comment. You need reading comprehension skills. He said because the M+ squish (as in M0 now being the old M10) made M0 too hard and people often face a wall and give up instead of taking time to learn the mechanics.
if M0 is now a wall I have lost faith in the skill of the WoW community. its really not that hard to do a M0. Learn the mechanics and apply yourself. It's about wanting to improve as a player and a person. This community just wants effortless handouts.
@@Valvad0ss misunderstanding a comment does not automatically and directly equate to lacking reading comprehension skills. Maybe you lack literary skills and don’t understand that yourself. 🤷♂️ Either way, he didn’t distinctly say that M0 was too hard. He only said M0 doesn’t teach people anymore which is factually false; given that M0 has the exact same mechanics as M+ and by doing M0, you will be taught how to do the dungeon in M+. So maybe you need reading comprehension skills? 🤡 And we all are aware of how easy M0 is. If people think M0 is too hard and simply cannot do it even though it is very forgiving and all of the checks in M0 dungeons aren’t hard, then they are struggling specifically with the BASICS of the game. I.E. their class, their rotation, their utility, interrupts, personal defensives, etc. and therefore should go back to even LOWER content, such as heroic dungeons, to learn the basics. Learning the dungeon and learning the basics of the game are not the same thing.
"Invisible high damage swirlies"... I'm sorry Blizzard, when did we go back to 2006? You'd think we'd have come a little further than Vanilla Naxx 40 and invisible ground effects, lol
-Mythic plus right now feels like shadowlands you have to work harder for less rewards, I don't think people are gonna be ok with this. While being in a guild and having a group of people to play with is good on paper but for some people this is not feasible to be able to have guaranteed times to play so all you have is to pug mythic plus. Delves are cool, but they stop being useful very fast and the level of difficulty for gear from them vs mythic plus is not even close, and the difficulty of the dungeons are not representative of the the numbers they feel like every dungeon in dragonflight +2 so 2s now feel like 4s so on so fourth
Squish is god awful for those of us who missed an early week of the expansion as you get stuck pugging with some fucking clowns, which was easier to push out of previously.
59:00 It's just crazy to me when people don't try to help one another, like if 2 players are on the same spec and one is doing significantly better they should be talking. I had the "better" warlock tell me "why should I reach out to him? He should be messaging me" lol like grow up and help each other out, it's better for everyone.
Years ago in Wotlk I whispered a fellow resto shaman letting him know that spirt was a terrible stat for shamans, let him know if he needed mana Mp5 was what he needed and as he geared he would want haste. The response I got from him was a bunch of slurs and unhinged rants. Things like this are why I will never reach out, I'll let someone ask.
Im so confused here. I have a honest question. People are always complaining that there is nothing to do in wow. Now we have a few bosses (on the hardest optional difficulty) where the average guild needs a few weeks of gear to clear it and no one is happy. I understand that not everyone is a member of Liquid or Echo but why are you all calling for nerves? Is it because you wish you could be done with progression faster? The stacking buff and gear will nerv all of the bosses and everyone will be able to kill the boss at some point. I don't understand what you need nerves for. Just kill all the bosses you can kill in a certain week and return stronger next week.
You do realize in order for an average 6-9 hour guild to hit 200 pulls you're looking at like a month of prog if not more right? That's assuming reclears can actually be done in minimal time (this raid is unbelievably frontloaded on trash so you lose like 20 minutes a night just to that). One day of raiding for these RWF guilds is over a week for the average guild especially since they are generally more efficient on pulls and learning from mistakes. A 200+ pull boss midway through the raid followed by 3 more is unacceptable especially since even IF you kill Broodtwister you ARE losing half a night the following week rekilling so you lose more prog on Kyvesa. No one wants to pull the same boss for over a month when it isn't even one of the last two.
i love m+, gotten to 3k every season in DF but playing a bottom meta healer aka resto druid its already hard being declined to groups but then the jump like you said from 7 to 9 is crazy for pugs as ive pugged to 3k in the last expansion in a timely fashion
i hope Method comes back to the First place, i know Liquid has earned it but really man i dislike them so hard. so beware of Method next tier they are comming closer
I am pugging only. I have 180 runes crests available to me and about 180 gilded crests. I still have 606 pieces of gear equipped. I am healing 10s. Granted I’m playing Rsham. But I am not finding these keys insanely difficult. Healing has felt worse in the past.
I could carry my friends through a 16 in df, they get aspect crests and can progress their characters. I cant carry for shit in a 9 or 10 everyone has to be on their game, 619 is the limit for most players right now, cant even slowly progress into myth track. Also i start doing 9s for guilded crests and do a 10 for vault and all of a sudden I have completed the highest non title achievement for the season? Thats anti climactic
The tank issue is fairly big in the higher keys. You're tank's either a complete G who is super prepped and knows what they're doing, knows dps/healer cooldowns/mana and pulls around them and your dungeon is going to feel very doable (if the dps isn't terribad). OR, you getting someone who still doesn't know count for dungeons and walks the first boss in dawnbreaker off the boat (not a joke, actually happened in my 10 dawnbreaker, the tank walked off the boat) and you're gonna complete it probably about 30 mins over the timer.
pair this issue with clueless DPS who do everything in their power to make the tank/heal life as hard as they can by not kicking anything, not stopping anything, bursting before the tank is in position, not LoS'ing, never pressing defensive, aggroing random extra pack...
The pug experience this expansion is extremely bad compared to any other ive played. I fail more keys in the 5-8 range than I complete and by fail I mean some people in the group are just getting farmed.
New rule: If you go on the bench you sit on the bench
Jealousy ;)
Fuck the bench and fuck Walmart
Doesn't "being benched" mean you don't play?
Next PoddyC: Raid leading from the bench 😅
Hey! He refused to say F poddyC, gotta give him props!
Haha, love it!
People have been calling for more mini-raids like Trial of Valor for years; this tier, we got two 4-boss raids released two weeks apart from each other! Thanks Blizzard for listening to our feedback!
The biggest group that played M+ in Dragonflight is completely shafted now. The people who played 14, 16, 17 keys with the goal to get good enough gear to achieve +20 Portals at the middle to end of the season. Now you only get the best gear at lvl 10s (fomerly 20) keys what last seasons was the ENDGOAL. The reward structure is just completely off. And thats not a hit on Delves, they are pretty ok and the loot is fine in my opinion.
This. My goal is KSH and portals. Myth track gear is basically "worthless". By the time I get it, I won't use it because I'll already have accomplished my goal and odds are once I'm done with 10s I'll have had such a miserable time I will be unable to find enjoyment in the dungeons to continue beyond 10s.
facts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Couldn't agree more. Myth track coming only from 10s and the general difficulty curve is my only real complaint from this entire expansion so far. It just feels terrible not being able to pug, I find myself only being able to play the game when my friends are on, the second someone wants to play an alt it's pretty much gonna be just season over for our group... idk. It just feels terrible trying to 2 chest an easy 8 so that we can no leaver a 10 siege or whatever for 1 myth slot and knowing it'll be probably a deplete and 5 crests, idk it just feels like shit. And once I get the portals, I'm done. Idk it just feels bad.
Actually you only needed 18’s for myth track, 20 just gave myth starting at 1 ilvl higher than 18. So 10s aren’t even comparable. I think 9s should drop myth and 8s drop guided crests. Btw I’m pug clearing 10s now I I still want these changes. It’s not fun, it’s stressful work.
They should have given hero 2 more tracks. So you could still work to the iLvL without getting much or even any Myth gear. Crests should drop at 8.
I think the key squish was fine, where they completely lost me adjusting the rewards track forward. I'm fairly sure 0 keys dropped champ gear, 7s would give you the end tier crest and 8s would give you a mythic track option. There was literally no reason for them to change that, I have heard the theory they moved down 0s to veteran to prop up delves and if that shift has cascaded up to the rewards from 9 and 10 keys, that was blizzard having a big case of the stupids.
I mean each to their own but if you cannot time a 9 or a 10 then why should you have access to the best gear from vault? There is absolutely zero challenge in running an 8 for best vault rewards and 6s for the best crests.
It’s not about challenge. It’s about progression. If I want a challenge I’ll push 12s and higher. But to get there, there has to be a stepping stone. I see it as 8/9 are my chores. 10s for portal reward and 12+ can be for sweats. That seems like reasonable progression.
@@mattc6056 I never mentioned not doing 9s or 10s, I have. Id also consider myself semi-competitive at the game with some 3k seasons and 7/9 mythic raiding prog. To say that there is zero challenge in 8s when the bleeding edge world first keys being ran right now are 12s-14s is a little bit unhinged to me. if you run in comms with a bunch of competent people, it definitively can be easier. perhaps you play the game on easy mode (death knight) have a skewed view of how hard this game actually is.
@@kfactor99 that's good and fine and i agree, but I feel like the degree of separation between world first keys and mythic vault slot and crest farm should be more than 3-4. literally the best timed of some keys are 12s, that is with 625 people stacking comp and in comms. I think for the health of the game blizzard needs to rein in the difficulty of its competitive content. Ive already experienced friends dropping out this season for the November patch when the content has been nerfed 8 more times and the game is refreshed. and honestly, they are fucking right. Ruby and AA were both atomic when they were released, would be nice if it didnt take 10 passes with the nerf wand to make a key something you looked forward to.
Damn Growl was so good during this interview. Lots of good questions, props to the cat.
He has ascended and become WaffleCat, God Emperor of Dune
The crests that average players need aka gilded and even Runed crests I would not describe as abundant. Especially if you don't love doing m+. Growl, it definitely does not feel like you can ignore M+, you need crests to upgrade and that really only can be farmed from M+.
Hey guys. Y'all put on a really good WoW podcast. You've got good discussions, point of view differences, and strong speaking voices. Really been enjoying this coming out every week. Just wanted to shout out some support. Keep it up friends!
My cook for fixing M+ gearing is adding bountiful chests to 10 keys and above with a chance at myth track gear. Players would get 4 keys a week and would be on a seasonal cap, giving players a catch-up/incentive to play alts later in the season.
Casual AOTC chaser this tier after raiding mythic in the past. Trying to shepherd some new friends into M+. We are now stuck in the 6-8 range, we are all capped on Runed and Valor and can't do 9s to get Gilded, so there's no progress to be had. It's rather frustrating.
Kinda been my experience too, I really can’t understand what would have been so bad having the previous set up in s4 last expac where u started getting top crests in 6’s and myth vault loot in 7’s. Right now it’s actually kind of just disturbing where ur vault loot from m+ is the SAME (sure maybe it’s higher ilvl with higher key fine) from 3-9 like how tf? Why so stingy there’s nothing “broken” about being able to more handily get ONE feckin myth piece a week let only the crests. This is on top of clear over tuning, absurd fotm classes, 2 more upgrade tracks on myth gear, needing NINETY of the top crest just to craft the highest pieces, and then there’s the affixes where, sure we might not have the really annoying ones anymore, but wtf is with “challengers peril” that +15 seconds on top of the base 5 second timer loss is absurdly brutal in m+ as it stands with that affix at 7 or higher ur just expected to run the key deathless on top of it all and I am DREADING whenever my guild and I get to 10’s where we get to enjoy tyrannical AND fortified like wtf did we do to essentially receive a massive demotion to the way we got to play before?
What ilvl are you guys? If youre capped and cant do 9s that shouldnt be because the system that should be about your game play. 9-10 are definitely hard, but not impossible.
@@Genmurasaki it is a completely skill issue, 10s are hard yes but anyone with time investment should be able to do 9s
Based
@@pupsymus Of course it's a skill issue 3 players are new. The squish has eliminated the intro curve and now we just hit a wall until people get better at the game. But there's almost 0 gear to be had and 0 upgrade materials.
Doing Mythic Splits because you don't wanna do Broodtwister is so based
The problem with keys and crests now is that if you aren't raiding you have to do 9 keys to get giled crests but you need gear that requires giled crests in order to just do those 9 keys.
This is the same problem with delves, sure you can get hero track from delves but you can't upgrade them very much without the ability to do 9's so most of those players are just capped at like 616 and can't get an invite to 9's without 620+ gear
you definately can time 10s at ilvl 610
@@vincenthamel3420 Depends on the 10. NW and Threads are basically dead keys if you're pugging. But then +10 Mists and Ara-kara just feel like 8's.
As an arcane mage I get invited fairly quickly to 9s. I don't raid at all so my only source for crests are the 9s.
Idk, can't you get invites for 9+ if you have a cleared 8+ or 7++ on your profile ?
So far the M+ pugging experience for me as been a bit grindy but usually if I have timed a key 1 or 2 levels below there is a chance I get invited.
Fury Warr sitting at 611 and 1850 some score atm, have most things done in the 6 range and I'm fairly sure I'll get invites to 8s next week and 9-10s once I've cleared those as well.
And if it really suddenly becomes more restrictive then I can just play my own key since it will be in the 10 range and according to the previous logic I should be able to find a lot of people.
Imo if there is one thing I'm going to criticise it's the amount of heroic crests you get from 8+ delves. You get showered in loot but 0 crests so you are funneled into doing M+ or doing the raid in heroic for those crests. I'd increase the crests drops from 2 to 5 guaranteed on an 8 delve, would be more coherent.
But all in all I would say I enjoy loot this season as much as DF S3. I think the current crest system since DF is all around a great improvement to loot and I'm thoroughly satisfied with it.
You dont get invited to 10 keys unless youre atleast 620@@vincenthamel3420
I'm a casual who only pug raids heroic and mostly plays for M+ with friends. I'm just approaching 2100 io this season and it's incredibly stupid that the highest crests only drop from 9s. You're stuck at 4/6 hero gear until you can reliably time 9s but in order to reliably time harder 9s most people need some of the better crests. Not to mention you need 90 to craft your 636 weapon which is ridiculous.
Following up on Growl's tip, the AH search string supports some basic level regex. You can search for multiple items using pipe-delimiter for OR searches, where you search for like:
sto dus | glem sha | ref cry | writ sam | vial oil
and that will return all the enchanting mats for this expansion: storm dust, gleaming shard, refulgent crystal and the writhing samples and vial of Kaheti Oils. The partial string matching he was talking about does have minimum of 2 characters I believe to work so cannot do like "s d" to look for "storm dust".
I know alot of AH addons have shopping lists you can store this type of stuff in but for quick ad-hoc searches for multiple items has come in handy if you don't want or need more addons.
The issue with it going from 6's-9's for max crest is that 6's were used as a nice stepping stone for players to achieve more gear to help them get towards though higher key levels. The other issue with them being at 9's and up is that everyone is now trying to get into a 9 and it makes trying to form a group a thousand times harder for dps players. Its a really bad bottleneck filled with a million leavers.
1:41:35 As a liquid fan, I think that echo had a bunch of unfortunate events happen in a row. They got a bunch of raiders banned pre-raid, they stayed up super late to make up for it even though they probably didn't need to, they fumbled the reclear and deleted their moral... Just a lot of stuff that could have gone a little bit better and snowballed into to a much tighter battle. But at the same time, super excited for the next race because there being 3 legitimate competitors instead of two is very exciting.
Don't want to get banned don't do anything bannable 🤷♂️
As someone doing 9's consistently on my main tank, and 4's as a new healer on my alt. Things are way chiller in higher keys than lower. Yeah, there is some ego you run into, but the pure raw anger and rage quitting happens significantly more in lower keys in my anecdotal experience.
Angry as hell
The issue is one shot or near one shots happen earlier than usual so in pisslow keys when you have people not hit defensives they just die. Izo isn't "that hard" after the nerf in a 8 or 9 or whatever when people rotate defensives and do mechanics correctly, but is a nightmare in a like +4 where someone doesn't have defensives bound.
I refuse to do Stonevaults below like 8. EDNA and Skarmorax WILL get 3 stacked at every opportunity below that point because people literally don't know mechanics that have been reused for like 15+ years now at this point (let the stupid debuff fall off).
pugging is rough as hell this season
Turns out it's equally hard for healers. There are plenty of keys I either outgear or outnumber in points, and people still won't take me. Mistweaver not good enough, waiting for Shaman.
@@SnarkyLesbian Thats just average pug mental illness, they want bis of the bis and accept nothing else. Better to get some friends and play maybe less hours but way higher quality hours.
Shoutout talking about the M+ squish again.
I heal, and have barely run any keys yet this season because there is never a "chill" option. Where in previous seasons anything from +2 to +9 was almost relaxing, the current +2 can be a total shit show if your tank is overconfident or your DPS never watch their feet. Basically it gets sweaty pretty fast.
Its especially annoying if there is a class you want to just mess around with. I'm interested in playing HPal, but the odds of me trying a +2 as one is basically zero where I would have tried some low keys in older seasons to feel it out (Heroic dungeons are too easy to replace that and idk that the game ever really thinks about M0s as a real option)
dungeons are also just in a terrible state for encounters. too many casts and mechanics that are disgustingly dangerous all over the place on top of bosses like stitchflesh who is the most egregious "if you don't kill me 1st try your key bricks" boss of all time maybe.
I have said this same take with my friends and guild so many times. Clearly the wow devs wanted casual players to exclusively do delves while the people they considered more "tryhard" were relegated to gearing in difficult dungeon content. The problem is that decision has abandoned possibly the largest portion of the player base which is people who want only moderately challenging content for decent, but not bis gear.
Now, you can "casually gear" through delves but delves aren't nearly as fun or compelling as dungeons so you're screwed on both fronts, gearing in a way that you enjoy, or just screwed because you can't do dungeons at all due to them not being casual whatsoever.
Then people say "get good" which I mean is somewhat fair, but what happened to the old system which was "just have fun." Just because you have to take on a large amount of personal responsibility to do ALL relevant dungeon content doesn't mean there's been an improvement IMO.
I tried to heal a 6 city of threads the other day as an hpal with friends. FYI I am NOT a healer lol. Did fine until last boss.. then proceeded to wipe incessantly. Holy crap some of these boss fights have absolutely insane HPS checks for absolutely no reason. I couldn't imagine a 10.
@@ScottySmith1957 man, exactly
@@ScottySmith1957 Great post.
As a new player wanting to M+ the lack of a social group has been tough. It’s hard to get accepted into a clique when you don’t have any achieves/experience to show or bring to the table. Gonna keep pushing and being super nice hoping I get a group to hang with regularly. Wish me luck!
That's a great mindset. It also helps if you convince your RL friends to get addicted- I mean, start playing WoW lol
Props to Growl for acknowledging Method's incredible tier
I used to do keys around 2-7 to chill on alts (because I play more than my friends). The difficulty of a 2 now is too high for a fresh alt in pugs. M0 is harder than +2 because if you actually do the affix you get a nice buff. I hate that I can't just queue into content. I hate that I can't even get into heroic dungeons now just playing dungeons (which is what I love). I get that the squish was a good thing, but there is still a massive problem at the low low end.
While nerfing items feels bad, it feels 10x worse to know you are doing 10% less dps simply because the item won't drop for you.
No item should be left in a state where its 2 to 3 times stronger than any other item.
I like how this was recorded before the further broodtwister and princess nerfs lol
Oh shit they got them at the end, POG
I can’t get enough of Growl’s cat picture being on various WoW bosses (and potentially mobs in the future!). Queen Growl was my previous top pick but Waffletwister Growl is the new top tier pick!
The only thing Blizz is doing with the M+ changes is scare away even more ppl from playing it. By mid of the season the queue will be ghost town, push groups probably represent almost nothing of the player base I think.
Who wants to bash their heads against a much more difficult content with literally trash loot?
I think this tier emphasizes the need for an "all star" mode above mythic that doesn't award additional gear. They already have so many modes, but it could share a lockout with mythic and would basically just be a RWF difficulty raid. Having mythic tuned around RWF and then just waiting for nerfs is such a bad design - it's not entirely Blizz's fault per se, but they do need to find a solution to make RWF and normal CE (even HOF tbh) happy that isn't just "wait until it's nerfed to our level".
I got back to wow recently after several years out. I’m playing resto druid as I used to before. So a lack of skill, limited time and a not-so-hot spec combine to let me know +10 are out of my reach for now. The reason to go back and do dungeons when all the solo stuff gives you decent gear is the competitive spirit I have that I will, eventually, get back to +10s or +11s. Maybe not this tier, but that’s why I subbed for 3 months. I feel a lot of the returning player base shares similar goals of proving to yourself you still “got” it
The affix orbs on the second boss for grim batol...how often they land in whatever fire we had on the ground was ridiculous haha
Specifically regarding shaman dominance and this definitely needs more traction is the addition of downpour. It's a 24 second* for totemic* rallying cry on top of ancestral vigor giving parties with shamans 20% more hp for almost every single mechanic or heal check in the entire game. I feel like I can put out competitive throughput and bring useful utility on other classes, but there are many instances where if I just had that extra 10% hp or 20% hp, the run would be infinitely smoother.
As a shaman, I would be 100% on board to remove downpour's HP steroid and nerf vigor to 5%. But I think without proper traction, Blizzard will end up nerfing all the wrong things. As already witnessed by the most recent patch notes with -acid rain damage and -%dr on earth shield.
1:14:40 - this is me... I'm not stepping into M+ until I'm geared enough to do 10s. Just no point in doing M+.
In regards to Thuns question. I totally agree. As someone who played resto shaman all DF, it feels weird to get all this attention as a class... When very little has changed
If they kept gilded (aspect) crests to like 7's i think this would all be fine. But i cant make heads or tales of whats better dungeons tuned down and keep the tyran fort combo at level 10 or should dungeons stay overall harder per sei but affixes need to be tuned down ( not the rotating affixes just the flat amps fort tyran peril guile etc )
2 hr podcast right on 2 hr NA maintenance, nice
Extended.
Soon to be 5 hours for the 3rd straight week
Fuck you both for speaking this into existance
womp womp extendo
Can’t find anything else to do for 2 hours
Regarding the affix orbs, i've had them flying above my hitbox trying to reach miniboss spiders in arakara.
The dungeons are genuinely not fun already on like +9 10's are not timeable atm for pugs for the most part. with the +7 affix i get the feeling of wanting to leave after one wipe instead of in dragon flight, i never got the feeling of wanting to leave after one or 2 wipes.
Every tuesday im here 10am fuck yeah
Thank you for confirming that there are invisible swirls. I died to last boss Mist from one of those.
Anyone have a link to the broodtwister invisible swirls?
M+ for the masses end at +10. That is the highest reward giving keystone for the season. And most people are around 605-615 ilvl. They will gradually get to 625+ and these keys will feel a lot better. 10 is the maximum for the season, so there is a good slope of progression from 2 to 10.
High key pushers for the first time this season got their own game mode. It's probably unoficially "m++"
M++ starts with a huge increase in difficulty that is +12. +11 is the training grounds.
M++ is infinitely scaling, and those players will prob get to 635+ ilvl very soon and their game will be between 12's to 20's.
I think all is good.
Love hearing that dev is doing great and aug is ‘sit-able’
Sure, I can get hero track gear from delves, but I can't fully upgrade it without heroic raiding or lvl 4 m+ keys. Which I don't really want to do.
then you will cap out at ilvl 619.
which is not bad for content soloable in quest green...
@@vincenthamel3420 the amount of delves you would need to do to 619 your hero/champion gear is insane (not including the 1 piece of 616 you can get from the vault a week). each item to go from hero 1/6 to 4/6 requires 23 completed t8 delves for the 45 crests needed
@@akunomatata7897 again.
seems really good deal for content soloable in quest green.
but, if it's not enough for you, feel free to do +7 or heroic raid.
@@vincenthamel3420 its supposed to be an end game pillar for solo players by Blizzards own words. basically saying you cant lvl the gear you get from it is a failure of design
@@akunomatata7897 you can level the gear you get from it. You get heroic-track gear from it, which is the top 99% of WoW population will see, you can get runed crest from delve too.
Again, and for the last time, how much effin power you want from something sooable in quest green? Is full heroic gear not good enough for you? Delve already made normal mode raiding and M0-6 obsolete because of how much normal-mode track gear it throw at you, is that not enough?
Blizz, after got criticized for stupid affixes: Our "new" philosophy is, play the dungeon NOT the affix.
Blizz, after seeing people bought into that lie anyway: And here are "new" affixes that basically scream, PLAY THE AFFIX not THE DUNGEON.
In other words, business as usual that's based on lies and it's in their nature. Anyone thought they are changing for real, must be feeling pretty dumb by now. 😑😑
wdym by play the affix?, how can you even "play" this affixes lol
Re: the take on enjoying it as people who like group content. Yes, we like it when we can group, but the problem is our groups have IRL stuff that makes it hard to do 4+ 10s a week together. Pugging them to fill the slots is very rough, and that also means our ability to obtain 10s is also tough
I think, overall the upping of difficulty was a step in the right direction, especially with how free 10s were in season 4. But, that does not change the fact that for a normy, trying to gear is not fun and i would have already stopped playing the season if it wasnt for progging heroic with guild. By making m+ harder and making the loot worse...it is just not fun anymore. I think the difficulty for better players can be refreshing, but i have to raid tonight and then do some m+ to gear for the guild and we still have brood, silken and ansurek to prog /cry
Edit: and myth track items are more annoying than anything. Its your goal to get them, but cant target farm shit. If you get 2 myth track staves in back to back weeks, sucks to suck
Growls rant on how tanking feels without an Aug is so real in 11-12 area already had thoughts about rerolling to bear(even though it probably won’t help) because I literally get melted by everything without an aug and if the healer isn’t really good it just feels unplayable
Hard disagree on this m+ ideology being a good thing I enjoy M+ content but usually cap out around a 10 currently and this season there is very little to no reward already for doing below a 10. The weekly Myth track reward and gilded crests could be at a lower key level 8 or 9 and it would be much better but I also think raid great vault should give a weekly item a tier higher than whichever level you were doing.
In pugs, priests not having a kick single handedly makes them the worst spec(s)to bring
Hot take: 1st boss should be between 30-40 pull increasing by 50% pulls on each boss.
„Volatile Concoction is huge healing check that requires your presence evoker to press his button“ 😂says it all …
Wish +6 would still dropp the best crests. There is just a massive jump in difficulty from 6-10 and +6-8 feel absolutely pointless because a 10min delve gives the same or better loot.
Growls intro for sang was amazing
ppl asking for nerfs forget this will be nerfed by more ilvl and the raid buff it is week 2 - those bosses should only be nerfed in the way of a hp nerf vor nexus and the broodtwister should have received only nerfs to parasites. Now with the HP Nerf to Brood you will never come close to space issues in the end.
The orb affix can have some of the worse over laps that I’ve seen when it comes to affixes. 2nd boss ara kara has been the most egregious one, the affix was consistently spawning in the area denial phase of the boss. What’s that, don’t have a immunity to go soak, guess the next several dots will be un-healable lol
If it weren't for the fact that we can see Sang's face, you could not convince me that he wasn't actually Ethan Klein IRL with that voice
A hopefully good question this time.
Why do you guys think Blizzard is so set on not making visual ques easily visible? They seem to double down and have made them even harder this expac by making them all purple on purple backgrounds
For example, when i used to raid in SWTOR, very few people would die to the fire/swirly/aoe cone because it was just a bigass red circle on the ground
Josh
What Blizzard needs to do is buff the other healers to match or be better then press. If that mean 50% buff so be it they can always say not in pvp. This way if you are playing a press you can still use it and don't feel bad about nerft.
Dude. Such a good point by growl.
If you were invincible every key you’d still time just pulling one pack at a time.
Everything in m+ being a survival check gets old. Dps is legit a useless metric.
The benched is so much better than poddyc. Haven't watched a single poddyc episode in 2 weeks now.
I really like them both. Very different vibes and that's ok.
@@constantius8769 the joke was that poddyc hasnt done an episode for the last 2 weeks
@@akunomatata7897 ok, that’s actually hilarious
Last season: Shamans have no external...
This season: shaman has best external...
Growl thumbnail on point.
Idk I just think they should at least start giving out gilded crest in smaller ammounts even for 6-7 and up keys for people to fully upgrade their heroic gear. Maybe I am wrong but whats the point of me getting heroic gear if i cant get gilded crests to fully upgrade it. My guild will never do mythic raids and 9 keys are out of my ability, so i might aswell just upgrade my champion gear fully and thats that, becasue im never gonna upgrade hero gear past 619. And that feels really shitty.
Playing healer is absolutely insane this season. Not being Resto Shaman feels so bad, that even when it's not being barred from invites, I keep scrapping by only barely in runs I do get to join on. Curse dispel, Easy AoE healing, externals for the tank, externals for the group, Bloodlust now that drums got effectively nerfed, being able to heal on range. I (Mistweaver) don't even have a good group buff other than 5% phys damage taken on mobs. While Shamans, the queens of utility, got another awesome buff on top of what they had already.
All the healers are so far behind. Druid has a Battle res and curse dispel, but no healing power. And Mistweaver has overall alright numbers, but really not the best utility. Conduit of the Celestials is so weak that I often have to interrupt it to cast better heals. They really dropped the balls in terms of healing balance this season.
what tank external?
@tili_ I mean a near permanent 20% health gain is pretty good last I checked. Also Earth Shield is just a 5% DR constantly up as well.
The M+ discussion demonstrates how detached the high end player base is with everyone else.
The new system just eliminated content from a ton of players and they gave nothing back to those players. Delves fucking suck. It doesnt matter what the reward is, they're trash content. And the fact thay all three commentors view them as a substitute for the old M+ system shows how disconnected they are from a lot of people who used to pug the 10-20 range. Delves arent a susbstitute for thay level of M+, and thay content is mostly gone from pugs now.
I'm sorry but delves are not M0 tuning. There are DoTs in these dungeons when you're specced healer that hit harder than DoTs in +7's.
So wait their all stuck on the worm 4/8 but what are they going to do with kyvezsa? When they get to it. 😅
Edited- disregard above... I listened to the rest of the vid inc the nerfs and buffs my bad 😁
Good lord I missed the podcast during the race.
Edit: apparently I missed an episode during the race. Sorry, I guess?
Edit2: I’m running with it being a Poddy C joke. Have a good day y’all.
Missed it how? As in the days felt longer? Because there have been episodes during the race.
@@TheRodonji ya, the days felt longer for sure with a race that lasted so long including heroic week.
There were episodes every week of the race....wtf are you talking about
Unless this is another lame PoddyC joke, it's weird how many people liked that considering there's been an episode every week
These affixes are a movement towards dps being responsible for them.
Probably the worst season of m+ ever. Now we get to go through the blizzard swings slowly fixing this mess but never admitting they messed up
Nerf pres it should not be doing 15-20% more healing then the rest.
After pugging and doing guild dungeons this season, man mythic plus is in a really rough spot this expansion, possibly the worst it's ever been in wow's history IMO.
The two biggest selling points of M+ and dungeons just in general is that 1)* they're a casual and chill way to get decent gear with opt in difficulty for competitively bis gear and 2)* dungeons are a home for people that aren't comfortable/able/capable of creating a guild group or friend group to progress through raid with and thus build their character. Both of these monumental aspects of the success of dungeons historically feel completely reversed and discarded with the changes to gear acquisition and dungeon difficulty/stop and interrupt reliance in modern keys. Looking out across the reception amongst many content creator's videos, my guilds reception, and my friends reception of widely varying skill levels from top 100 players to gamer dads, reception has been incredibly bleak.
People typically respond to complaints with some variety of "Just get better at the game" or "you're a part of the problem" but those responses regularly gloss over the elephant in the room which is that people do not *appear* to be having fun. Compare people's reception to Tazavesh Gambit to the reception of this set of dungeons for context. Thus far the changes to M+ have made almost no element of dungeons more enjoyable which should be the entire point to making any changes in the game, because that's what WoW is, a video game. Most gamer dads and moms, college kids with too much homework, and people working 2 jobs should probably not even touch dungeons and that's a problem (IMO).
Even M0's and M2's are more lethal/unpuggable than the vast majority of all dungeon content I can remember throughout my entire time playing WoW. Pushing keys has even gotten considerably more difficult due to the nature of the timer penalty (people are leaving after 1 wipe and depleting keys and with the difficulty squish, depleting a key by 1 is much more relevant now)
That silhoutte is max right ? Am i the only one
The non POE players just learned about regex 1:22:00
Blizz should have a done a better job trinket tuning on beta, its too late now to be nerfing spymasters web when it is for some specs a better trinket than anything else even at normal mode ilvl and honestly its a fun trinket to use.
That being said its going to get nerfed going into the next raid cause they wouldn't want it to be more powerful than the new trinkets they add.
The M+ level squish made M+ harder. Previously, some of the lower keys was how people learned the mechanics and now, M0 doesn't teach people anymore.
M0 has the exact same mechanics as mythic +. So I mean, what else is supposed to happen for people to learn?
@@christaylor3604 you completely misunderstood the comment. You need reading comprehension skills. He said because the M+ squish (as in M0 now being the old M10) made M0 too hard and people often face a wall and give up instead of taking time to learn the mechanics.
So have them do 2s? There’s little difference and a 2 is free with more realistic damage and a timer. I don’t see the issue
if M0 is now a wall I have lost faith in the skill of the WoW community. its really not that hard to do a M0. Learn the mechanics and apply yourself. It's about wanting to improve as a player and a person. This community just wants effortless handouts.
@@Valvad0ss misunderstanding a comment does not automatically and directly equate to lacking reading comprehension skills. Maybe you lack literary skills and don’t understand that yourself. 🤷♂️ Either way, he didn’t distinctly say that M0 was too hard. He only said M0 doesn’t teach people anymore which is factually false; given that M0 has the exact same mechanics as M+ and by doing M0, you will be taught how to do the dungeon in M+. So maybe you need reading comprehension skills? 🤡
And we all are aware of how easy M0 is. If people think M0 is too hard and simply cannot do it even though it is very forgiving and all of the checks in M0 dungeons aren’t hard, then they are struggling specifically with the BASICS of the game. I.E. their class, their rotation, their utility, interrupts, personal defensives, etc. and therefore should go back to even LOWER content, such as heroic dungeons, to learn the basics. Learning the dungeon and learning the basics of the game are not the same thing.
People forget that this is week 3 of the raid. The boss is fine you guys are just there insanely early.
I thought the mystery guest was me
Growl saying to be careful with nerfing pres so as to not disrupt people doing rerolls, doesn't he main pres?
listen to community trying to get +9 or +10 for mythic track upgrade....
me just trying to do +3 and delves to fill vault for hero track upgrade.....
"Invisible high damage swirlies"... I'm sorry Blizzard, when did we go back to 2006? You'd think we'd have come a little further than Vanilla Naxx 40 and invisible ground effects, lol
Good luck. Back in S4 of SL we went almost the entire season of ground effects being hidden under rugs in Lower Kara.
-Mythic plus right now feels like shadowlands you have to work harder for less rewards, I don't think people are gonna be ok with this. While being in a guild and having a group of people to play with is good on paper but for some people this is not feasible to be able to have guaranteed times to play so all you have is to pug mythic plus. Delves are cool, but they stop being useful very fast and the level of difficulty for gear from them vs mythic plus is not even close, and the difficulty of the dungeons are not representative of the the numbers they feel like every dungeon in dragonflight +2 so 2s now feel like 4s so on so fourth
Hell yeah Dev enjoyer!
The AH thing been in since like Aberrus
Squish is god awful for those of us who missed an early week of the expansion as you get stuck pugging with some fucking clowns, which was easier to push out of previously.
59:00 It's just crazy to me when people don't try to help one another, like if 2 players are on the same spec and one is doing significantly better they should be talking. I had the "better" warlock tell me "why should I reach out to him? He should be messaging me" lol like grow up and help each other out, it's better for everyone.
Years ago in Wotlk I whispered a fellow resto shaman letting him know that spirt was a terrible stat for shamans, let him know if he needed mana Mp5 was what he needed and as he geared he would want haste. The response I got from him was a bunch of slurs and unhinged rants. Things like this are why I will never reach out, I'll let someone ask.
Im so confused here. I have a honest question. People are always complaining that there is nothing to do in wow. Now we have a few bosses (on the hardest optional difficulty) where the average guild needs a few weeks of gear to clear it and no one is happy.
I understand that not everyone is a member of Liquid or Echo but why are you all calling for nerves? Is it because you wish you could be done with progression faster? The stacking buff and gear will nerv all of the bosses and everyone will be able to kill the boss at some point. I don't understand what you need nerves for. Just kill all the bosses you can kill in a certain week and return stronger next week.
You do realize in order for an average 6-9 hour guild to hit 200 pulls you're looking at like a month of prog if not more right? That's assuming reclears can actually be done in minimal time (this raid is unbelievably frontloaded on trash so you lose like 20 minutes a night just to that).
One day of raiding for these RWF guilds is over a week for the average guild especially since they are generally more efficient on pulls and learning from mistakes.
A 200+ pull boss midway through the raid followed by 3 more is unacceptable especially since even IF you kill Broodtwister you ARE losing half a night the following week rekilling so you lose more prog on Kyvesa. No one wants to pull the same boss for over a month when it isn't even one of the last two.
1:49:00 it also got.... a.... RAID BUFF
i love m+, gotten to 3k every season in DF but playing a bottom meta healer aka resto druid its already hard being declined to groups but then the jump like you said from 7 to 9 is crazy for pugs as ive pugged to 3k in the last expansion in a timely fashion
i hope Method comes back to the First place, i know Liquid has earned it but really man i dislike them so hard. so beware of Method next tier they are comming closer
blizzard : lets nerf holy pallies.
Sang's title longer than Daenerys fr
I am pugging only.
I have 180 runes crests available to me and about 180 gilded crests. I still have 606 pieces of gear equipped.
I am healing 10s.
Granted I’m playing Rsham. But I am not finding these keys insanely difficult. Healing has felt worse in the past.
I could carry my friends through a 16 in df, they get aspect crests and can progress their characters. I cant carry for shit in a 9 or 10 everyone has to be on their game, 619 is the limit for most players right now, cant even slowly progress into myth track. Also i start doing 9s for guilded crests and do a 10 for vault and all of a sudden I have completed the highest non title achievement for the season? Thats anti climactic
Also killing Zekvir grants 25 Valorstones
Shaman is king ... it's so much easier than mystweaver or paladin. It's not even funny for how easy it is compared to other classes
The tank issue is fairly big in the higher keys. You're tank's either a complete G who is super prepped and knows what they're doing, knows dps/healer cooldowns/mana and pulls around them and your dungeon is going to feel very doable (if the dps isn't terribad). OR, you getting someone who still doesn't know count for dungeons and walks the first boss in dawnbreaker off the boat (not a joke, actually happened in my 10 dawnbreaker, the tank walked off the boat) and you're gonna complete it probably about 30 mins over the timer.
pair this issue with clueless DPS who do everything in their power to make the tank/heal life as hard as they can by not kicking anything, not stopping anything, bursting before the tank is in position, not LoS'ing, never pressing defensive, aggroing random extra pack...
overreacting is your guys strongest Trait, the Affix is not bad tbh. and i dont see really problems in PuGs
Need a progressive M+ buff under 10s
The pug experience this expansion is extremely bad compared to any other ive played.
I fail more keys in the 5-8 range than I complete and by fail I mean some people in the group are just getting farmed.
Lets gooo
Idk I’ve never done pve ever I’m a pvp player and cleared 3 +5s in all pvp gear