Howard Miller Worthington Mantel Clock with Hermle 340 020 Movement
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- Опубликовано: 20 фев 2019
- #clockrepair Howard Miller Worthington Mantel Clock with a Hermle 340-020 movement made in 1988. Howard Miller model 613-102. Needed cleaning. No bushings. This clock has a hairspring balance wheel.
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An index for this video:
0:00 - 1:22 Information about this clock.
1:22 - 2:15 Removing the hands; examining the bezel.
2:15 - 5:05 Removing the movement from the case; briefly examining the movement.
5:05 - 5:50 Letting down (unwinding) the mainsprings.
5:50 - 7:24 Removing the balance wheel assembly.
7:24 - 9:15 Removing the hammer assembly.
9:15 - 25:43 Planning the disassembly; removing the external parts.
25:43 - 27:19 Separating the plates
27:19 - 28:40 Removing the inner parts from the plates.
28:40 - 30:19 The easier way to remove and insert the mainsprings on a Hermle movement.
30:19 - 31:13 A quick view of all the parts; reading the movement's stamp.
31:13 - 31:46 Examining all the pivot holes for wear. No substantial wear found.
31:46 - 35:51 Cleaning the plates and wheels with soapy water.
35:51 - 48:22 Removing a mainspring from its barrel, lubricating it, and returning it to its barrel.
48:22 - 49:18 Separately testing the cleaned time train and strike train.
49:18 - 50:52 Evaluating the sticky chime hammers; testing the cleaned chime train.
50:52 - 51:49 Testing the cleaned chime hammers.
51:49 - 52:21 Reassembling the movement (briefly).
52:21 - 1:22:41 Detailed explanation of how the chime levers work.
1:22:41 - 1:22:52 The fully reassembled movement.
1:22:52 - 1:23:50 Running on a test stand.
1:23:50 - 1:24:32 Placing the movement into the case.
1:24:32 - 1:25:21 The fully repaired clock running on the mantel.
Do you still fix clock i bind watching all your views on you tube
Who would want a Battery operated clock ! ,when you own one of these beauties. No one seems to be interested anymore in a mechanical masterpiece, I am !!Thankyou for explaining how it works .Its the first time I have seen one with two fly wheels , Thankyou .
The two governors work with the chime train and the strike train. Thanks for watching.
Best explanation of the chiming side on RUclips awesome
hI sir ...I AM 62 YEARS OLD AND CLOCKS IS MY HOBBY TOO ..WELL THAT WAS TE BEST TUTORIAL BY FAR ..I DO NOT HAVE WORDS TO THANK YOU GOD BLESS YOU regards panos
Thank you Mr. Perry for posting these Clock movement videos. I find them most fascinating. I love watching you work on them.
I also enjoyed watching you build your cement steps and railings over your pond outside. You are a very clever man. 👍🇨🇦
Thanks for the comment. I just try to stay busy.
Best tutorial on the self adjusting mechanism I have seen! Thank you for all the informative videos you have posted!!!!
Thank you for posting these videos! I have this same movement in a carriage clock. I was a little intimidated about cleaning it, but your video gave me all the instructions I needed. Excellent breakdown of the striking mechanics!!!!
When I get a movement I haven't worked on before, I take digital photographs of all the breakdown steps, print out the pictures, put them in reverse order and I have step-by-step illustrated instructions on how to put it back together.
I cannot thank you enough for this most informative video. You have saved me hours of trial and error in attempting to set up a Hermle movement to strike correctly. I think I learned something important in each and every step you shared with us. Again, heart felt thanks.
I'm glad the video was helpful. Thank you.
Thank you for this video very helpful. I'm an amateur clock repairer here in the UK it's also a bit of a hobby. I service the cheating way I clean the pivot holes with a tooth pic then clean with a cotton bud with fuel lighter fluid then re oil the movement so far seems to work out. Great to watch a master at work 😊
Thank you for the comment, but I'm no master. It's just a hobby for me as well. I started doing this in 1968.
Hello professor, I wanted to thank you for the video, it has been of absolute clarity, you have helped me to interpret the behavior of these cam wheels. The best video I have seen on the internet in which you address this subject in such detail. I am repairing a very similar Hermle 350-020 machine and your video has been a tremendous help. Best regards !
Thank you so much. I'm glad you found it helpful.
@@dperry428Yes of course you help me ! i wanted to ask you something: my clock have an old floating wheel escapement, is not like yours but similar, mine have a vertical hairspring. We need to cleanning and oiling the floating wheel escapement ? i dont know how can i do. Thank you professor, best regards !
It needs to be absolutely clean and free of any oil. A final rinse in a degreaser like acetone is good idea. No oil whatsoever.
@@dperry428Thank you professor, i send my best wishes !
Your video and knowledge are outstanding. I don't repair Clocks, but tinker with them. I found your video and got hooked watching it. I have a Gilbert Mantle Clock ($15 at an Estate Sale) and a Ridgeway. It's a square Mantle Clock ($70 at Estate Sale). The Gilbert started working after I lubricated the pivots with "Synthetic Super Lube". It keeps OK time. It gains about 1 minute a day when fully wound and then loses a minute or so a day when the mainspring it running down. I did notice a badly worn bushing in the Chime section. Don't have any special tools to replace it but bought a small bag of unsorted Clock bushings, also at a Garage Sale.
The Ridgeway uses a balance wheel and does not run. I took it to a Clock Shop and it is being repaired. I wanted to try and fix it myself but the Clock Technician said "It's a beautiful Clock and it would be too risky to try and repair it yourself". He's had the Clock for over a month and says he will fix it. I'm in no rush to get it back so he can repair it as time permits. I see why it costs a fair amount of $$$ with all the labor involved.
Sadly, too many of these Key-wind Clocks are being tossed out. Few seem interested in them, especially the younger generation. I am 66 years old and love mechanical things.
Thanks again for the videos and your expertise.
Thanks for watching and for your comment. Hope you watch my other videos as well.
WOW! I knew these clocks were an amazing feat in engineering, but didn't appreciate what goes into maintaining them and the knowledge that is needed to work on them.
Me, as foolish as I am, thought I could take one of these apart and get it working again will little effort! Boy, was I wrong. You are a very skilled craftsman.
I think I'll just put it back together and admire it.
Thank you so much for this very detailed video. I have a 340 020 movement in a mantle clock that my parents passed down to me. It worked perfect when I lived at home, so I was a bit surprised that when I got it, it was not working at all. I cleaned/oiled all the pins as per another video and it worked (ALMOST). Then after putting it all back together, I realized that the chimes were not functioning properly. At the quarter hour they would start and just keep going. So I hit the internet.
Came across your video and watched it for quite some time as you explained how the chime setup works and how to adjust it. Turns out that someone must have messed with the clock at some point after I left home. The quarter hour cam (I think that's what it's called 1:01), was NOT quite tightened in the right position. It was already starting to ramp up the cam before the pin came around to stop the quarter chimes. Loosened the screw, got everything where it should be according to your AMAZING instructions, tightened it up, DONE. Had to go through a few cycles before it straightened itself out, but it's all working just like when I lived at home. My parents would be so happy that it's working again. Now I have 7 other clocks to clean and oil!
Thank you so much for this information. I feel like no one seems to want these old clocks anymore and it's getting more difficult to find clock repair people now too.
Is there any way I can download the video from somewhere? It would be great to have for future reference. I'm afraid if it's not on youtube when I need it again, I'll never find one as good again! Thanks again.
Thanks for watching. I'm glad you found this helpful.
I tried to give you a link to a site that tells how to download YT videos, but it was deleted. Apparently, YT didn't like that. Just do a search for downloading YT videos and you'll find the information you need. I've never done any downloading so I have no recommendations to make.
@@dperry428And BTW, it's still chiming away 24 hours later. So seems good to go. Not sure how that cam got set out of alignment. This was always one of my moms most reliable clocks. It'll remain a mystery.
The detailed description of set up of the cams for the quarter chime mechanism and automatic correction are really helpful. Thanks for uploading.
Glad it was helpful!
I don't quite know why, but I can't stop watching this video. It's like you've documented a journey through the jungle or a long hike and you're taking us with you. THanks for sharing.
Hi , This has been very helpful to me as every now and again my Hermle clock would do it,s own thing and chime twice when it should three chimes and so on , but now it,s Clock work every TIME , Thank You
Glad it helped
That's the best explanation on this clock I've ever seen! Thanks a lot!
I'm glad you found it informative. Thank you for watching.
Great video. You are very good at explaining the details. Thank you!
I appreciate the in-depth explanation of the chiming/striking sequence. Picked up a couple of good pointers. Thanks for posting.
Thanks so much for the video. You helped me identify the problem with my clock and repair it. Works like a charm now.
Glad it helped. Thanks for watching.
I am working on one of these movements and wanted to thank you for creating this very detailed video. Your explanation of how to setup the timing is very helpful!
Glad it was helpful!
Great demonstration...what a brilliant mechanism!
Wishing you good health and warmth with your family. Thank you for the entertaining, sharing and learning videos. Once again, I wish you and your family health and more movies in the future
Great, informative video! It helped me a lot when figuring out and repairing the chiming mechanism on my mantlepiece clock with a Hermle 340-020 movement. Thank you!
Glad it helped!
The thing that has kept me from taking one of these fully apart was not understanding how the strike and chime mechanisms works. Excellent explanation....I’m going for it - Thank you!
Great video very informative thanks for sharing your knowledge
I just bought a clock with this exact movement. It too has the super sticky hammers...must have been made with the same lubricant as yours. This video is perfect to guide me through servicing mine. Thank you!
Glad it helped. Makes the effort of doing the videos worthwhile when someone benefits from them.
Thank you so much for this!
Just stripped down, cleaned and rebuilt my Gran's old clock and this was just invaluable for re-assembling the chime levers!
My movement is an older one with a floating balance though.
For such a robust looking mechanism it was surprisingly temperamental.
I glad you found the video helpful.
Thank you for this video,saved my clock
Thanks for your work...
Great video!!
Excellent, Excellent Video! Thank you.
Thank you
Awesome, thannk you. I have 2 of these to repair, both need bushings in various places.
Glad it helped
Good knowledge sir
TKS my friend. Im in Brazil and could fixed my 340-020 machine
First class thank. Thank you.
Wonderful video
Thanks for the visit
Happy birthday!
Thank you
Вітаю,це ваше відео я дивився раніше,так ,це теж є четвертний годинник,а фірма Hermle робить якісниі годинники,я теж лагодив їх, дякую вам за працю 😊❤
excellent I learned so much from this thank you!!!
Glad it was helpful!
mine is now working great because of your video the only problem is the hourly bong starts quiet and gains volume with each bong. The hammers move perfect no restriction its almost like it not lifting the hammers high enough?
Strange! The hour strike is controlled by a star wheel between the plates. If the length of the "arms" of the star are not of equal length, then the hammers would vary in the height they are lifted with each strike, causing differences in amplitude of the sound. Only thing I could think of that might cause the problem.
good answer I wonder if that is possible that the star wheel could wear like that I appreciate your help in this matter. I will take a closer look at the star wheel if its needs replacement is it possible to get one?
Also, check for a bent pivot or even bent arbor that holds the star wheel. Any deviation from running true would cause a virtual change in length of the star wheel points. timesavers.com/search.html?q=hermle+star+wheel&go=Search
Thank you for the excellent explanations (and for filming the oiling of a clock spring). I learned a lot with this one! Knowing to align things (including where the warning pint needs to be) at the 3/4 hour is helpful. It looks like they had ease of assembly in mind with this design (at least as far as clock movements go).
A good habit to get into, if the clock is at all functional, is to get the chime and/or strike mechanism into its normal locked position and note where the part positions are. Digital photographs are also helpful. Then, when reassembling, you have reference to where everything needs to be.
Nice clock
Thanks for explaining the chime correction mechanism. Now I know how to fix this on my grandfather clock. I realize that probably have the timing of the cams a bit off. Or on backwards. Great videos! Sorry for the late comments I just found this channel.
Thanks for the comment. They are never too late and I appreciate them.
ياسﻻم روعة وجمال وتاريخ عريق يستحق التقدير و اﻹحترام لقيمته التاريخية واصالته هذه الساعات تعد ثروة و انا من عشاقها وبذات الساعات اﻻلمانية الكﻻسيكية الجميلة واحب تصليحها وصيانتها👍👌
Bravissimo
Gracias por compartir sus conocimientos, necesitaba un tutorial de esta máquina.
Regular el atraso y adelanto una vez hecho el servicio no lo tengo claro.
On this movement, there is a screw on the back next to the balance wheel. Turn the screw to the + to speed up the clock and to the - to slow it down. On other movements, there is a lever that shortens the hairspring to speed up the clock or lengthens it to slow it down.
@@dperry428 Ya esta montado y funcionando.
Muchas gracias por la ayuda.
Un cordial saludo desde España
I really enjoy watching your videos and congratulate you on your inspirational working methods. May I ask you if you apply oil to the balance staff at all after cleaning?
Yes.
Mr Perry... I just bought a Solar Mantle clock with a floating balance wheel escapement. It was so gummed up I had to ultrasonically clean the balance wheel assembly and the hammer mechanism because they wouldn't even function. I actually got the thing working..I will be making a video of it soon.
It's amazing how gummed up some of them can get. More satisfying to get them running again.
@@dperry428 i have it back together.. there is a video on my channel.
@@dperry428 perhaps you know.. in the floating escapement..is there a lubrication point in the mechinism? I did ultrasonically clean it and the amlitude did improve but it isn't moving more than about 35 deg.each way. It runs but it is not lubricated. Perhaps you know.
No, do not oil it. You might find this thread from the NAWCC forum of value: mb.nawcc.org/threads/guidelines-for-repair-hermle-floating-balance.17277/ Also, here is the Hermle Service Manual. issuu.com/acru/docs/hermle_service_manual Discussion of floating balance is on page II-28.
Hi there, you have racked up a lot of views and comments, well deserved, thanks for shooting this video. Totally new to clocks, just received one with a Hermle 340 020 movement. Wasn't even sure how to wind or test it. After watching your video (and reading below), I gently wound up the middle winder...and...nothing. It wound a couple turns and I stopped when I began to feel resistance. The top part that moves in back (the hairspring balance?) doesn't move at all. I tried rotating the minute hand through an hour, felt something happening at the quarters, nothing else. Then I wound the right one, no issue. Wound the left one, after a couple of twists the catch didn't hold and it unwound fast, really hurt!, but rewinding seemed to work fine. At this point, toggling the lever in back up and town caused it to play the chimes pretty well, but no other movement. Thoughts?
My thoughts? I would tell you to put this movement away until you have experience with simpler movements. Start with a movement that doesn't have chime or strike. For this movement, your experience with the springs tells me there are several problems and you have no experience working with springs. They can be VERY dangerous and have to be handled with care and respect. The one that slipped on you might have a damaged click mechanism. Unless you know what you are doing, I advise not messing with it. The middle spring is the one that controls the time, the one on the right is the chime and the one on the left is the strike. I can't diagnose problems without examining the movement. It's like saying to a car mechanic, "My car is making a noise, what's wrong with it?". Again, my advice is to not mess with it until you have experience with simpler movements.
By the way, that spring that let loose on you is a bad thing. That sudden release of energy may have damaged one or more of the gears -- either bent or broken teeth or bent or broken pivots. It will need to be examined very carefully. That spring could let loose again and next time a part may come flying out and hit you in the face. Wear eye protection.
@@dperry428 Thank you sir, that's pretty much the perspective I wanted to hear, and thought it would be useful for others here in the comments. I am pivoting from typewriters to interest in clocks. Your video made very clear how much knowledge is needed to do this, and your respect for the stored energy within. The clock is so lovely, I just wondered what to do next. It seems most websites recommend replacing the mechanism, but it is such a masterful creation I would rather see it fixed. I was also thinking that a spring could be unwound as you demonstrated, and possibly just replaced as a module, as a middle ground. Anyway, thanks for the comments, I wasn't expecting a diagnosis, just perspective, much appreciated!
@@dperry428 Wow, that makes sense. Who would have guessed that clocks were more dangerous than typewriters! Pretty cool, actually, both run on human power, but the typewriter only stores a single typed line of energy, while the clock needs to store 8 days. Many thanks again for your thoughts.
Yes, many repair people say to just replace it. Don't give up. If you want the clock to function, buy a replacement movement and then play around with the old one. Let the springs down as a first step. That takes away the energy that can cause damage to both you and the movement. The spring barrels can then be removed without taking the movement apart and you can then take time to safely study how the movement works.
You did a great job explaining the entire process and I compliment your level of knowledge. I’m working on this exact same movement the frame-Hermie 340-020. I’ve got it fixed except for one thing that you didn’t go into. I had to remove the hammer assembly because the hammers were frozen and I took out the cam down there. I’ve placed it back in and all just like the movement you were working on except that the chime doesn’t complete the quarter hour until the next quarter hour. I was wondering if there is a certain way to place that cam in or does it work no matter where it’s placed? Any help you could give me would be appreciated
I think you're referring to the roller with the pins that raise the hammers? Set the chime to the point where either the quarter hour or 3/4 hour chime is done, assuming Westminster chime. At those quarter chimes, the chime ends in 4 descending notes. Loosen the gear with the set screw on the back of the movement. Disengage the gear teeth. Rotate the roller until the hammers drop to sound the 4 descending notes. Re-engage the gear teeth and tighten the set screw. You may have to repeat that until it finishes the chime correctly.
Great video. I just tore into my Hermle 340-020 and the chimes were not timed right, did not realize that the cams had to be positioned correctly. My fault, I hadn't taken pictures before I tore into it. QUESTION though, is there a "timing mark" on the striker barrel that I should be aware of?
No, not that I'm aware of. To set the roller with the pins on it so that the clock strikes the right notes, I let the clock run through the strike at the quarter hour or 3/4 hour since that's when four descending notes are sounded. So, let the clock strike, say, the quarter hour, loosen the set screw on the gear that runs the roller and turn the roller until the pins move the four hammers in a linear sequence, one after another, and then retighten the set screw. You may have to make minor adjustments so that the last hammer falls when the strike sequence ends. In a triple-chime movement, you should set the tune to Westminster chimes
A great lesson on strike train adj. Can you show one on a Juglans John Smith bracket clock?
I can only show repairs on clock that are sent to me. I haven't had a John Smith bracket clock to repair. BTW, the "Juglans" in the name is simply the genus of the wood -- walnut.
Another great video! Looks like everything was cranked down crazy tight at the factory, or perhaps corrosion was a culprit. When it came time to separate the plates, I wondered if you could lift the back plate off instead of the front plate, since the center cam/gear was not removed on the front plate side. Though it looks like you eventually sort of did this to get them apart. I ran into the same thing by the way, a non-removable/fixed shaft, when fixing a Jauch movement. And since its the hour shaft, the bushing shouldn't wear out for a long time (hopefully).
It goes a lot easier taking these movements apart if you're not old and forgetful and remember that the mainspring barrels can be taken out as soon as the hammer assembly is removed and the clicks on the front plate are removed. The winding arbor simply pulls out of the hole in the front plate and the whole barrel can be slid from between the plates. Makes disassembly a whole lot easier. Yes, those German movements, Hermle, Urgos, Kieninger, Jauch, all have the lift levers press-fit to the center arbor. Removing them can be a nasty affair without a puller. Hard to justify the expense of one if it is only used once in a couple years. With these movements, that is why many repair people just prefer to put in a new one. They are available except for Jauch, which is out of business. Be aware, too, that many of these movements that were made during the 1975 through 1989 period were made with soft steel plated with nickel or chrome and, when the plating wears off, rebushing simply results in the pivots wearing out in a matter of months. When you run across one of these with plating worn, you can replace the pivots with hardened steel or you can replace the bushing with tiny ball bearings that negates the concern for the pivot condition. These ball bearings are sold by a company in Muscatine, Iowa, Butterworth Clocks. They also sell replacement movements. butterworthclocks.com/ User name and password are both: butterworth
You always provide the best tutorials. Very honest and clear unlike many youtubers who don't share everything openly. I really appreciate your efforts. Would it be possible to do a video on 400 day clocks and how to change the suspension spring and putting them in beat? Thanks.
Thanks for the comments. I don't get a lot of the 400 day clocks to work on, but I have a few of my own that need work. I'll try to do one or more this winter. In the meantime, if you're thinking of working on them, do get a copy of Charles Terwilliger's "The Horolovar 400-Day Clock Repair Guide". It is indispensable.
@@dperry428 I do have one but my biggest challenge is putting the clock in beat. It is so confusing and I can't seem to get a straightforward method. Thanks a lot. I will be looking forward your future videos.
Depending on the individual clock, the pendulum should rotate approximately 270 degrees; some will be less (down to 180) and some will be more (up to 360) . Smaller models rotate more than larger models. The way I set the beat is to carefully watch the anchor and pendulum as it operates and, at the the moment the escape tooth is released, take note of how far past that exact point does the pendulum "overrun". The overrun at each end of the rotation should be exactly the same. If the overrun of the pendulum is not the same, the piece from which the top block is attached will have to be twisted to adjust the overrun. These adjustments are VERY tiny. That's why there is a "beat adjustment tool available that clamps to the top block assembly. It has a long handle that allows for very small adjustments. ronellclock.com/400-Day-Beat-Setting-Tool-TL-10.htm?categoryId=-1
@@dperry428 Thank you very much. I have the tool and the book but it seems to me that the template in the book isn't 100% accurate. It shows the fork tilted upwards and when I followed it, the clock didn't tick. I have a walmac 400 day clock that uses template 27c in the book. I moved it to be vertical and now it ticks but I am still trying to fiddle with the tool to get the beat right; What happens if the suspension spring is a bit shorter ? Would that affect the beat?
Watch that the vertical wire that is on top of the anchor hasn't been bent out of vertical. That can affect the interaction of the fork and anchor. Another thing to watch is whether the mainspring has not lost its strength. Did you remove it to clean and lubricate and to check it for expansion to at least 2 1/2 times the diameter of the barrel? Yes, the length of the suspension (torsion) spring is critical. If it is too short, the clock will run fast and the degrees of rotation will be smaller. The overrun will be smaller and it could be harder to judge when the clock is in beat. Too long and the clock will run slow, degrees of rotation will be greater and overrun will be longer. It is, of course, extremely important that the thickness of the wire be exact. I would not consider using anything other than Horolovar springs. That is the one that Terwilliger's book is based on. Springs other than Horolovar may be made of different material and the same thickness may not have the same torsional characteristics. I know there are bronze springs available, but using them creates all sorts of complications. I've not heard of the brand you mention (Walmac).
Hi Mr. Perry. Love the video. You gave me the confidence to tear apart my Hermle 351-830. Question: I don't have a puller, so the the minute shaft will stay on the plate. From a bushing perspective, how much play is acceptable between the shaft and plate? I can't get it apart to inspect it. Thanks so much.
I can't give you a specific amount of play that is permissible, but it's quite a bit. It isn't part of the drive train and there is not a lot of pressure on that arbor and pivot hole. If the hands don't bind when it's running, leave it alone.
Awesome video. Can you tell me the difference between 340-020 and 340-020A. I'm looking for a hand nut and wonder if both units use the same. Thanks
If the "A" were separate from the model number, it would signify the movement being made in 1988 but, as far as I know, a letter after the model number is an engineering code and has no significance. 340-020 and 340-020A should have the same hand nut.
Great video- thank you! The only thing I am not clear on and maybe you can make a video of: how do you oil the clock and in which places? Do you oil the teeth pars of the wheels to run smoothly? What do you use for that? Will W-40 be bad? How about razor blade oil? Thank you!
Use a good synthetic clock oil. Do not use WD40. It is a penetrating oil that spreads out, so is the opposite of what is wanted in a clock. The WD stands for water displacement. Good for locks and rusty bolts, but really bad for clocks. Razor oil the same. Oil only the pivots of each gear and, then, only a tiny amount. Too much oil that spills out of the pivot hole will run down the plate, draw out the oil in the pivot and act as a dust collector. NEVER oil gear teeth nor pivots of levers, except for oiling the anchor pallets with a tiny drop of oil that will lubricate just the tips of the escape wheel teeth.
I like the information and it works all the time. I have a question; I've just finished cleaning hermle 1161-853 and got it running. Trouble is, it only chimed correctly the first time on the quarter, half, three quarters and the hour. Then the second time it didn't stop chiming for 2 cycles then stopped then the strike started. I made sure I followed your instruction when I set it up. Pin was up and both cams were in the right position at the 3 quarters hours. Would a wrong fly wheel affect this? Are both fly wheels interchangeable or different? Thanks
Check the levers on the cams. Make sure the hook that locks everything down on the 3/4 hour is not dragging or hanging up on the lever or cam. The governor fly would be a non-issue.
@@dperry428 Thank you very much. Will do
Hi There, thank you so much for posting this video with such a great explanation of the chiming mechanism. I live in the UK and so I get offered a lot of the Hermle chimers, but so far I had not found a good enough explanation of the chimes! Now I think that I will be willing to give them a go!
Also, a quick question about the main springs; when do you decide that the spring is "set" and have to replace it? Looking at the one shown here, I would have thought that it was "set", due to its compressed size when unwound?
Once again, many thanks for the videos.
Thanks for the comments. When I did this clock, I was hesitant to use the old springs. Normally, the rule of thumb is that the relaxed springs should have a diameter a minimum of two-and-a-half times the diameter of the barrel. These were much less than that. There was no hurry getting this clock back and the spring barrels can be removed without taking the clock apart, so I put them back in. While I'm writing this answer, I have a video rendering that will be posted tomorrow. It shows the replacement of the springs in this very clock. It would only run accurately for about 3 to 4 days and then start to gain or lose time erratically. If it had run reasonably well with the old springs, it would have saved an 82 year-old man $30. This is a hobby for me. I have no need to make money on it, so it is a matter of course that I won't replace parts unless I'm absolutely certain it's necessary.
dperry428 That makes perfect sense, I would do the same😃👍
Thanks for the spring explanation, which is what I was working from, so it does all make sense.
I know what you mean about working with the springs, however, I’m much happier now I have a main spring winder! I really cringe when I see people doing them by hand😮 ... show the springs some respect!
I look forward to your video of replacing the springs.
Thanks again, from one hobbyist to another.
@@joncooke2450 Here's a link to the video ruclips.net/video/DJ2cCFcPTn0/видео.html
Great video. Just finished cleaning 3 Hermle 340-020 movement. Put them together. they all run for like half a day and then stop. Floating balance seem to be working but a bit slow. Could it be out of beat? Is there a way to clean the floating balance? I don't know if it needs to be cleaned or oiled. Please help. Thanks a lot.
Rinse the entire balance assembly in mineral spirits. This may be helpful. www.nawcc-index.net/Articles/Murray-hermle.pdf as well as this mb.nawcc.org/threads/guidelines-for-repair-hermle-floating-balance.17277/
Gesundheit!
Thank you
That's a very nice clock. I have a Howard Miller Worthington clock similar to that one, only mine has the Kienninger movement. I want to get into clock repair someday. Can clocks like this one that had a Hermle movement be fitted with a Kienninger movement?
Howard Miller used Hermle movements until 1993, when Howard Miller bought Kieninger and started using those movements. I don't know the situation at the moment but, last summer, Kieninger was in Chapter 11 bankruptcy and, if they didn't find investors, would be going out of business. As far as fitting the movements to an existing case, you'd best measure the distances between the center hole and winding holes on the dial and see that the replacement movement has matching distances between the center shaft and the winding stems. Otherwise, you'll need to replace the dial as well.
A great video, thanks for sharing your knowledge. I am new to all of this but I have always be fascinated with older clock movements. If I may ask you, what is your choice for ultrasonic cleaner that will also brighten the brass? Thank you!!
I have no choice or preference. I've been repairing clocks as a hobby for more than 50 years and, until recently, never used an ultrasonic cleaner. They were simply too expensive. Then, two years ago, I received one as a gift. I like it for initial cleaning, but still prefer to hand clean, much like detailing a car. If i want to brighten the brass and remove stains, I use a mild abrasive cleaner meant for acrylic showers and tubs, along with a toothbrush, to polish the brass. In reality, there is no reason to polish the brass to a shine, unless the clock is one where the movement is visible, such as carriage clocks, skeleton clocks and 400-day clocks.
@@dperry428 Great and thank you for your time. I am an older and retired but have had a long interest in old clocks. I completed my first ever rebuild just a few days ago, a Seth Thomas #89. It took a while, 12 pivots later and about 10 tries to make it work correctly, I finally figured out what all that stuff does. It has been running and striking now without a problem for about a week. Your videos are very inspiring and full of information. Thanks again for what you do!! Ron
Congratulations and welcome to the world of clock repair. You might like to join the NAWCC (National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors). They have a museum Columbia, Pa (Lancaster county), publish a journal, provide training in repair and also have a great forum online that is a valuable source of information. nawcc.org/
I will look into this. Thanks
Oh, that 340-020... It is a nice looking movement, but the plates are thin. I have a junghans with that movement. Serviced by me years ago, only a clean and relube. Now after 5 years the chiming is slow: removed the large barrel to see if something is wrong... Plates ok, but the arbor just enlarged ( sorry my english ) the hole on top and bottom of barrel, making the barrel moving left/right on his axis. Time to buy a new barrel.
Sounds like either rebush the barrel and cover or replace the whole thing. A new spring would also help with the slow chime. timesavers.com/search.html?q=hermle+mainspring&go=Search
Thank you for this very informative video! I am working on a movement with the same functionalities but I encountered the following problem: the quarter chimes are incomplete, the last note is missing. One of the hammers remains lifted and drops back in the warning phase. Do you know what the problem could be? Many thanks!
The pinned roller that lifts the hammers needs to be advance in its rotation by an amount to allow the hammer to be released. If you look at the back of the movement, there are 3 gears that transfer power to rotate the pinned roller. The top one has a set screw that can be loosened so the roller can be adjusted.
@@dperry428 Thank you for your advice! I will try and let you know the result!
I have identical movement. I have repaired and got it working but it will stop chiming because of a spring that is missing from the lever that lifts on the star wheel.
Do you have a picture or dimensions of that spring? Or the gauge of wire I might need to get to make a new one. I Live in the U.K
Is there anyone doing spares?
Great video. Your help appreciated.
I can't help with spring size as the clock has long since gone back to the owner. You might find what you need in an assortment such as this: timesavers.com/i-8947977-200-piece-coil-spring-assortment.html
In the past, I've made various springs from brass spring wire
timesavers.com/search.html?q=brass+spring+wire
And also the screwdriver spring unwinding tool
timesavers.com/i-8948374-4-piece-let-down-set.html?q=mainspring+let
Excellent video as ever. Why is the pre-chime state called "warning"?
I don't know why other than it's ready to strike. The parts have always used the term, as in the pin that moves from locked position to the ready position has always been called the warning pin, the wheel it's on is called the warning wheel and the lever that catches the warning pin is called the warning lever.
Fantastic video thank you very much .I am the hobbits that help me a lot
That's nice work.
But we're you satisfied with the action of the floating balance.
It was a hairspring balance, not a floating balance.
I love your videos. They are so educational and I learn a lot form you. I have a question. I have just finished cleaning a movement like that one Hermle 340-020 and although the chiming and strike work perfectly. The time terrain runs for a bout 5 hours and stops. I can't figure out the problem. Floating balance works. Any thoughts? Thanks.
I would suspect one or more worn pivot holes. Look particularly at the second wheel. If it were running a couple days and quitting, I'd suspect a weak spring that needs replaced, but at 5 hours, that's not likely, unless the springs are dried out and sticky. Did you remove the springs from the barrels to clean and re-oil them?
@@dperry428 Oh yeah, took the mall out. cleaned them up and oiled them back in place. They were pretty dirty but in a good condition. 3 times the size of the barrel and not warped or anything. Could it be a bent pivot? Thanks.
Possibly. If it is, it would likely be on the second wheel. Did you polish the pivots? That is the time to look for bent pivots. You would see a wobble of the bent one when you go to polish them.
@@dperry428 Unfortunately I didn't polish them. I just cleaned them and wiped them dry with piece of cloth. I am thinking maybe when I was putting the clock together I might have bent one of the pivots with my tweezers. Guess what? came back from work and the clock has been running. It has been 8 hours now. Thank you very much!
At 28:40 how did you get that shaft out? Did you need a special puller? If I don’t have one can I just clean the plates with the shaft still installed? Thank you.
Unless there is significant wear in the plate hole, it's best to leave it in place. First, unless one has a puller, which is expensive, taking it off involves driving it off in any contrived manner you can devise without damaging the shaft. Second, once it's removed, the relationship of the lifting cams on the shaft and the squared end of the shaft on which the minute hand goes is now out of kilter. Getting the cams back on in EXACTLY the same relative position is nearly impossible. Then, you'll have a minute hand that does not align with the number 12 when it strikes the hour. So, you end up having to force the bushing on the minute hand into the correct relationship by twisting the bushing. Best to just leave the shaft alone unless ABSOLUTELY necessary. Just do a careful hand cleaning of the hole and shaft. If the shaft does need to come off, it is best to remove the gear from the shaft on the inside and then remove the brass collar from the shaft on the inside of the plate. It can be gripped and twisted off, noting well its position so it can be accurately replaced. Then, either a new collar can be turned or the old one replaced and held in place with a drop of Loctite.
I have a Hermle 451 movement (451-050H specifically) That only chimes every other hour. For example, it will chime on the 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, and 12, but just clicks with no chime on 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, and 11. How do I fix this problem? Could one of the cams out of sync?
Since the striking mechanism is controlled by exactly the same parts and processes, with the exception of the NUMBER of strikes, which is controlled only by the rack and snail, what you describe makes no sense whatsoever. I know of no condition under which this would happen.
Very thorough, for the most part. You didn’t show the cleaning of the spring, and the darkened oil when you tapped it to get rid of excess, makes me wonder if it was cleaned or just oiled. Just wondering if cleaning is necessary- it is enclosed in operation, after all.
Cleaning is absolutely necessary. You are correct that I didn't actually show cleaning the springs. None of my videos show every step or they would be six or more hours long. The old oil dries out and prevents the spring coils from freely moving. Not much to show about cleaning the springs except when there is oxidation and really hardened oils and grease as the spring is simply put into the ultrasonic cleaner. There would be no need to remove the springs from the barrel if they simply needed oil. That can be added to the edges of the spring in barrel without removing it. How much a spring needs cleaning can only be ascertained by removing it from the barrel.
@@dperry428 Thank you very much for the time and efforts you take in sharing your work with those of us who are grateful. Unlike some, I appreciate the videos and I thank you for posting whatever YOU decide to share, irrespective of what tactless viewers may feel entitled to.
Thank you. The original reason for my making these videos was to show the owner of the clock what was done to it and what goes into "repairing" a clock. Over time, how certain operations are done was added to help those interested in getting started with this hobby. Also, when unusual circumstances come up, it's fun to share those as well. I always figured that if I already have shown how to do something in a video, it wasn't necessary to show it every time. I think a lot of people don't realize, either, how long it takes to edit one of these videos. I'm running the camera for long periods of time and have to select what I include or the videos literally could run for many hours. I also figure that someone who is interested in learning will take the time to watch more than one of my videos and, if they've seen it before, they won't want to see it again. Some people also get upset if my hands get in the way. I'm fixing clocks, not making cinematic wonders. Guess no matter what I do, someone will get offended. I appreciate your comments. Thanks again.
Hello and Thank You for the Video. Can you tell me what the Number 40 on the Barrel represents?
It's Hermle's barrel number that, used in conjunction with their service manual, gives reference to the size of mainspring that is used and for replacement. Clock parts suppliers such as Timesavers, sells replacement barrels and mainsprings using that number. Here is a link to the Hermle service manual:
issuu.com/acru/docs/hermle_service_manual
I recently replaced the chime cam that had a broken pin. The quarterly chimes and hourly strikes now property start and stop. I reassembled the clock and now noticed that at 2mins before each hour the clock would strike once; then when the hour is reached it would chime and strike as usual! Must yet disassemble again to troubleshoot. : (
Listen to the chimes before you start taking things apart again. Listen very carefully. My bet is that the chime roller (with all the pins that lift the hammers) is just slightly out of alignment. Two minutes before the hour is when the clock goes into "warning" before chiming the quarter hour. The train of gears, as well as the chime roller moves slightly and, if a hammer from the last time it chimed has been lifted but failed to release, it will fall at this time and you'll hear a single note. Make sure there are no hammers being lifted partially at the end of the each quarter hour. Adjust the roller as needed.
@@dperry428 - Thank you! Your troubleshoot was spot on. Upon inspection, I noticed build-up accumulated around the chime roller and the gear of the stuck hammer. This consistently prevented the hammer arm from slipping over the threshold of the gear tab during the last note of the 3/4 chime; the hammer arm would merely sit on the apex of the triangular tab of the gear! (Very cool to see). A gentle tap to the clock case would push the hammer arm over the gear tab threshold. Similarly, as you said, the motion of the 'warning' action also provided sufficient movement to drop the hammer; hence the singular note be fore the hour chime sequence! A gentle cleaning, a slight adjustment to the gear, and a drop of oil brought back proper function (and ease of mind)!! Much obliged, sir.
I've not seen a balance wheel type of system before. Is this what is used on the Anniversary Clocks (typically under a glass dome enclosure)? Those "400 day" clocks?
The 400-day clocks have what is called a torsion suspension. There is still a typical, though very small escape wheel with an anchor and adjustable pallets. Instead of a pendulum crutch, there is a lever that extends vertically from the top of the anchor. Into that lever is a horizontal fork, the back of which is attached to a VERY thin and delicate ribbon of wire, which is suspended from what is called a top block. At the bottom of that wire is a rotating pendulum, typically 4 balls, that rotates back and forth through about 270 degrees. The wire on the anchor pushes the fork back and forth, which twists the thin wire, which transfers the twist to the pendulum. There are about 8 beats of the pendulum per minute, so it takes a very long time for the mainspring to wind down. Some of these clocks are actually made to run 1000 days. The main problem with them is damage to the very thin wire ribbon. They vary in thickness from model to model but a common one has a thickness of .0024". The average human hair is .004, so these wires are close to half the thickness of a hair. They get broken easily, or some kid decides to spin the pendulum and permanently puts a spiral twist in the wire, making it completely useless. A lot of people don't like to work on them. They are sometimes difficult to get in beat. If you ever get one, don't even think about working on it without having a copy of Charles Terwilliger's book "The Horolovar 400 Day Clock Repair Guide". It contains outlines for identification of every 400 day clock made and exact specifications for the wire thickness, fork location, wire length and positioning of the top and bottom blocks that attach to the wire. I've repaired many of these clocks and my copy of his book goes back to the early 1970's. I have half a dozen of these clocks in my collection.
I have the Hermle Hamilton Wheatland 340-020 movement (same movement as yours) I only have one issue with it. It chimes fine but when it reaches the hour, it chimes one extra ie if its 8o'clock it chimes 9 times. Is there any easy fix for this issue. I dont think I'm brave enough to dismantle as you have done here, besides I feel there is very little actually wrong with it as the 15,30 and 45 chimes are spot on. Any help with this would be much appreciated. Thanks
The hour hand is a friction fit; move it forward one hour. Probably, at some time in the past, someone set the time by moving the hour hand backward. The movement doesn't give a hoot where the hour hand is.
Thank you so much for this invaluable information. My click is now chiming the hour perfectly thanks to you. 👍👍👍👍
Glad I could be of help.
Great video! Is there a trick to the strike side too... with respect to the warning wheel, the star wheel (for lifting the hammers) and the position of the cam on the front?
The star wheel is not a problem. It has a set screw and is external to the plates, so it can be adjusted at any time. The second wheel has the two-lobed cam on it (between the plates) that is involved with the mechanism to keep the bird out during striking. When the warning pin is at the top (near the top edge of the back plate), that double cam should also be about vertical. Set the strike mechanism to the locked position so that the warning pin is on the stop lever detente and the double cam is vertical. THEN put on the gathering pallet so that the pin that rides it is in the slot on the gathering pallet. The strike mechanism should now operate properly.
@@dperry428 Thanks for the reply,,, I'm not sure what "the bird" is, assuming it's not cuckoo clock related. The explanation you did on the chime levers and lock up, etc. was fantastic. I recently followed your video on my own 340-020 this week. The strike side has the star wheel that pushes down the lever and lifts the 4th,5th and 6th hammers. It's also got a warning pin position and when my clock goes into warning it lifts the hammers, preventing the 4th hammer from chiming. I think I need to move the star wheel but not entirely sure.
I'm sorry. When I get notified of new comments, they appear on a screen that has a tiny thumbnail of the video and appears in a list of comments about varying videos. I had just answered a comment about a cuckoo clock and thought your question was in reference to a Regula 25 cuckoo clock. The setting of the warning pin on the strike side is not critical since the stop position is against a detente on the a lever controlled by the chime side, which is controlled by the extra "bump" on the chime cam at the end of the 4th quarter (hour) chime. Adjustments to the strike side can simply be made by assuring the warning pin is on the stop detente and then setting the gathering pallet into the stop position. The star wheel is between the plates and is a strong friction fit to its arbor. It can be adjusted, however, by prying one of the lifting points on the star with a screwdriver using another arbor as a fulcrum.
@@dperry428 Perfect! Thanks again. Your detailed video was very helpful. The Ollie Baker mainspring winder looks like a great tool too. Those mainsprings are scary strong.
I have a clock like this. I replaced the main spring based on your comment to another viewer since it was gaining an hour a day and couldn't adjust.. Now the chimes are a mess. The hammers seem out of sync, one or more left in up position and the last chime leaves one hammer up that chimes on the next quarter. I think the gear that moves the hammers is in wrong, if so, how to get it aligned? It is also chiming 8 minutes off the quarters. Thank you, your video is super.
Make it chime the quarter or three-quarter hour. Both of those chimes end in four descending notes. Then loosen the set screw on the top gear on the back of the movement and move the roll with the pins on it until it just finishes the four descending notes. Retighten the set screw. The minute hand can be adjusted to point at the proper quarter by twisting it in the attached tubular base until it aligns with the correct number.
@@dperry428 Thank you sir
Another great informative video. I am new to clock repair. I have been repaing some clocks but i ran into an issue i cannot figure out. The clock that i been fixing does not keep good time. It loses about 20 to 30 min a day. Why might this be Mr Perry? Also all bushings have been replaced on time side
I need a whole lot more information to give you any advice. For example, if you said the clock was a 400 day (anniversary) clock, I would tell you the chances are 99% that the wrong suspension spring was installed. What kind of clock are you referencing? Pendulum or balance wheel? Was the clock functioning properly at some time in the past with the same parts installed? What did you do to repair this clock other than bushings? Tell me more about the clock involved.
@@dperry428 i dont know to much of the history of the clock i workin on. Its 1 that someone had found and i just fixing as a hobby. But anyways its a pendulum clock. 8 day spring there is no markings on the movement so i dont know maker. As far as repairs i have taken it apart. Cleaned it. And checked and replaced bushings accordingly. Before i did anything to it i can tell you that the clock did not work at all. After the repairs i did it now does work just slow as far as time keeping.
In a pendulum clock, a pendulum is usually suspended from a suspension spring by way of a pendulum leader. The period of the pendulum (the time to swing back and forth) is controlled by the length of the pendulum, which is measured form the point of suspension to the center of mass of the pendulum. The longer the pendulum, the slower the clock runs and the shorter the pendulum, the faster the clock runs. One or more parts of the pendulum system, suspension spring, leader or pendulum itself is making the system too long. The pendulum bob, itself, can be at fault as a heavier bob will lower the center of gravity of the system and make the clock run slower. 20 to 30 minutes a day indicated a much too long pendulum system. Shorten the pendulum until it runs the correct speed.
@@dperry428 thank you mr perry for advice i appreciate you to take the time and help me.
Hi there I have that same movement on my clock it works fine but it runs about a half hr fast I see the plus and minus wings but Im not sure witch one to move and what direction to move them could you please guide me in the correct direction I would appreciate it! This was my dads clock he got from his work I don't remember how many yrs it!
Depends on the type of balance. Try these references:
ruclips.net/video/GV-2UF9L9NU/видео.htmlsi=PvyZBu1jXQoKYNO8
mb.nawcc.org/threads/adjusting-time-on-old-style-hermle-340-020.80026/
If it is very fast, it may be beyond adjusting and needs a new spring.
so my HM bracket clock runs for about 20 hrs and then stops, I can move the front hand arbor up a little and it starts back??? so what do you think is my issue here Sir
Sounds like a classic case of worn pivot holes. The clock runs until the slack is taken up in the wheel (gear) train, depth of mesh gets too deep in one or more gears and the clock stops. Moving the hands jostles the gears, pushes one of the pivots out of the worn spot in its pivot hole and the clock starts again. Solution is to rebush the worn pivot holes.
Hi, I followed the instructions but the hammers are stuck up when the chime is done. They don"t come down. Do you think it is the cam position or the chime mechanism? Thanks
If the chime is stopping, then the cams are correct. It is the roller with the pins that needs to be advanced. Loosen the set screw on the first external gear and disengage the tooth mesh with the next gear. Move the roller to a position where the hammers just drop off the pins. Then, holding everything in place, push the first gear back to engage the second gear and tighten the set screw. You may have to repeat the process until it works.
@@dperry428 Thank you very much.
Hi Mr. Perry a friend gave me a movement just like that one. But I am missing the lever that is on the back of the movement that lifts the hammers so they can strike. I can not find that part anywhere on the internet. Could you help please! Hope you are in good health. P.S. do you have video on how you determine the size of new mainspring and where do you get them.
Can't help you with parts. You might check with these people and see if they ship internationally. www.cousinsuk.com/category/movement-parts-hermle-by-list I also suggest looking for an identical movement for sale on ebay for "parts only". As for mainsprings, the cover of each barrel has a stamped number on it. You can buy them either with the complete barrel or just the spring here: timesavers.com/search.html?q=hermle+mainspring&go=Search
@@dperry428 thank you so much sir!!
Hello, I have this movement in a Seth Thomas mantle clock. How can I stop the chimes from chiming?
OR, don't wind the chime side.
Y la leva de accionar la soneria del eje de centro?
I don't understand what you are asking. Your comment translates as: "And the cam to drive the chime of the center axis?"
I have a clock That I replaced the movement with a brand new 340-020a but it runs slow. Is there and adjustment screw to make the clock running faster about 3 minutes a day. Thanks
Looking at the back of the movement, at the top of the back plate on the right-hand side, you'll see + and - signs stamped on the plate. Above those signs, on the platform with the balance wheel, you'll see a slotted screw. Turning that screw clockwise will slow the clock and turning it counterclockwise will speed the clock. Turn the screw half-a-turn and observe the results in time keeping. Adjust back and forth until it keeps accurate time. Even tiny movements of the screw will make a difference, so be judicious.
Hello I have the same issue the only screws I see are the ones that holds the balance wheel assembly and there tight what am I not seeing?? maybe I have a different mechanical movement I have marked on the back says Kieninger 73 #340-020
What you describe does not exist. If it actually has "Kieninger 73" stamped on it, it doesn't have a balance wheel. That model is a pendulum movement, chain/weight driven grandfather movement. #340-020 is a Hermle number, which is a completely different manufacturer. Your information is faulty, so I can't help you.
@@dperry428 can I send you a picture of the mechanism for the Kieninger 73 340-020 mantle clock
@@dperry428 thank you so much for your time and help
I have a Howard Miller 340-020. It runs great. The only problem is every 12 hours, it had gained 8 minutes. I have been turning the time adjusting screw counterclockwise. In several days, the clock still runs 3 minutes fast every 12 hours. Some improvement was made. Should I continue adjusting the screw counterclockwise? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
With a balance wheel escapement, if power is being lost somewhere, the balance wheel will not make its normal full swing and the clock will gain time. That power loss can be caused by loss of power through the gears, indicating a need for lubrication or replacement of worn pivot holes or through loss of power in the mainspring. I've found these mainsprings to be the culprits if the clock is older than 30 or 40 years. Mainsprings can be replaced without disassembling the entire movement. Try oiling the pivots. If that doesn't solve the problem, the movement will need service and possible bushing and/or mainspring replacement.
I have cleaned and oiled the pivot points to the best of my novice ability. The movement has been functioning for a week, but the gain in time has decreased with my adjustments. Just today the gain is 1:30, down from 3 minutes. I will try again to turn the adjustment screw. If no improvement is realized, I will look to replace the mainspring. Any information or links to do the mainspring replacement?
Easiest thing to start with is to turn the adjustment screw all the way to the end of its ability. The clock should then run slow. If it doesn't, proceed with the mainspring replacement. Otherwise, back off until it keeps proper time. To replace the mainspring(s), let down the springs, remove the click mechanism, pull out the winding stem and the spring barrel can be pulled out from between the plates. Look at the number on the barrel and order a new one from here and reinstall. timesavers.com/search.html?q=hermle+mainspring&go=Search
@@dperry428
Thanks again for the tip. I will try turning the adjustment screw out more. Checked this am. and the clock gained 1 minute. Making progress. Keep turning until the end of it's ability if necessary. Then, if needed, try replacing the mainspring. I'll keep you posted.
I have been away. I turned the adjustment screw almost to the end, and the clock stopped running. Turned the screw back some, and the clock began keeping time again. But running 1 minute fast every 12 hours. Would you recommend the mainspring replacement? Thanks.
Hi there. I've got my clock working perfect thanks to your video. I have one question. At 1:24:31 into the video, there is a bar (silver metal) on the bottom of the clock that goes between the chime and the chime levers. I don't know what that's for or how to adjust it. On my clock, it's actually installed above the chime hammers. I just don't understand what it's purpose is except to perhaps silent the chimes. Is that what's it's for? Thanks again.
Should be below the hammers. When lifted up against the hammers, it keeps the clock from chiming.
@@dperry428 Ah ok thanks. I think because the clock has another mechanism to stop it from chiming, they must have just put it out of the way. Has a dial on the back which rotates a bar into the spinner to stop it from activating the chimes.
Could also have been used when shipping the clock.
@@dperry428 I just took apart another clock that I had. WOW. Looks like they dipped it in oil! Oil everywhere. Besides the shafts where they go through the plates, is it really necessary to oil all the gears too?
Gears should be oiled ONLY if you want to eventually destroy them. Oil is a natural dust trap and combines to form a grinding paste that will accelerate the wearing away of the teeth and leaves of gears. The only thing that should be oiled is the pivots of the wheel (gear) arbors and only with enough oil to surround the pivot. Oil should not spill out of the oil sink and spread on the plates. Otherwise, oil will be drawn out of the pivot hole, leaving the hole dry.
can i replace the 1051-020 11cm movement for a 1050-020 that has the balance wheel and not the pendulum? being the 1050-020 is a lot cheaper? will this be a direct exchange movement? thanks
I don't know, as I'm not a Hermle expert. What you need to check is whether the distances between the winding holes and the center hole are the same. Otherwise, I don't know why not, but I don't know if the hole distances are the same. Otherwise, you'd have to find a replacement dial, too.
@@dperry428 ok thanks tell me if the movement has a broken time band will the clock run at all? or can they be over wound? also because i do not have this clock yet in my possession what winding point is for the time? i have got the 8 the 6 for this. i think the 6 is for time and 8 is for the hour and 4 is for chimes this clock was not running so i told the guy to started it and keep it running by hand and now it seems to be running. it seemed to be wound tight but the wawcc forum guys say you can't overwind them. but now i wonder? thanks
A clock cannot be overwound. When you reach the fullest a spring can be wound, that is it. I suppose a gorilla could put enough turning force on the mechanism to break something. People will let a clock go for years without servicing it and the oil can congeal and cause the spring coils to bind and not slip past each other. That's probably what people are calling overwound. It is more properly called underserviced or unoiled. I assume by "broken time band" you mean a mainspring. If the spring for the time train is broken, the clock will not run. On a chime clock movement, facing the clock front, the hole in the middle is for the time train, the hole on the right is the chime train and the hole on the left is the strike train. So, I assume you are buying a used clock. If it is not completely operative, you are facing, unless you have the skills, a large repair bill. It will need servicing at the least; that is cleaning and oiling. Very likely, it will need extensive repair to replace worn pivot holes with new bushings. Heaven help you if the clock was manufactured during the 1970s through the early 80s when the manufacturers used soft steel for the arbors and chrome plated the pivots. The chrome wears off and grinds away the pivot holes and the repairs can get very expensive. Most people choose to just buy a new replacement movement. Either way, the cost is not cheap.
@@dperry428 thank you much. the clock is a friends not mine. it is the franz hermle 1051-020 11cm 200.78 and above the name is what looks like a square but most likely a 0 if i could post photos and some videos of it running but can't here. anyway you helped me a lot thanks so much. i think it does need oil and the spring may be dry and winding them tight makes them stick. the local clock shop said the time bad was broke but it is now running after he mas kept it running so it may be dirty and it just sticks. again thanks. i have been viewing your videos on that movement your took all apart and then put back together.
Hi dperry. I have a Hermle 340-020 that did not wind in the middle (clock). When I wind it, it keeps slipping. The clock does not work. What is wrong with it. I am a rookie about this kind of clock, got this clock from my grandad. Please help, thx so much.
The mainspring is likely broken. The easiest solution is to replace the whole barrel that contains the mainspring. Remove the movement by removing the hands, remove the screws holding it in the clock case and then remove the middle barrel. You do that by removing the click mechanism on the front of the movement, pulling out the winding stem and then slipping the barrel containing the spring from between the plates. There will be a number on the cover of the barrel, such as 40 or 41. Order a new barrel and spring here: timesavers.com/search.html?q=hermle+mainspring&go=Search and install it. Were you experienced and had the equipment, you could just order the spring and install it in the old barrel, but I would not recommend that.
@@dperry428Wowww, very very happy when I saw your reply. I did order a full barrel #40, and it is on the way. Also, I forgot to ask you about the ratchet wheel, I has some wears on the teeth. Before when the clock was working, I wound it (middle) and I did not hear clicks, and I have to wind until it holds. The problem started the other day when I wound it, and holds. Seconds later, the key spinning backwards very badly. From that point I was not able to wind it anymore. Is there anything gone bad beside the barrel. I hope you understand my points. Thank you very much again.
The only thing inside the barrel is the spring. You can get a new ratchet here: timesavers.com/search.html?q=hermle+ratchet
@@dperry428 I just rescued a clock from a local junk shop with a Hermle 340-020 movement with this exact problem. I was hoping your explanation was as simple as it sounds, and watching your video to the point where you showed how easy it really was makes me confident I can get this one back in service. Thanks!
I am rebuilding this same movement. I have the time train in and the clock is running, but something doesn't seem right. I have a floating balance and it just seems like the clock is not beating right. If I sent you a video of it, would you take a look and offer some advice? Thank you in advance.
Is the movement keeping time? If it is, leave it alone. If not, read these: www.nawcc-index.net/Articles/Murray-hermle.pdf mb.nawcc.org/threads/guidelines-for-repair-hermle-floating-balance.17277/ mb.nawcc.org/threads/difficulties-with-hermle-floating-balance-mvts.46737/ Lastly, did you check the springs? When out of the barrel and let down, they should be at least 2 1/2 times the diameter of the barrel diameter. If not, replace them.
@@dperry428 Thank you for the links, I will check those out. No the movement is running slow. I don't have the tools to be able to remove the springs from the barrel. I could probably get them out, but I would likely never get them back in again.
ruclips.net/video/hC61EFOqDy4/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/uGZARnv2kkw/видео.html
@@dperry428 Thank you again for all the advice. I still cannot get the clock running. It seemed like everything was good yesterday, but this morning the balance wheel was barely ticking over. I guess that suggests a power issue in the gear train? Any chance I can email you directly, or do you have a suggestion where I could seek out additional help. Thanks again!
Leave an email address in a comment. I hold comments for approval. Then I'll contact you and delete the comment without publishing it.
I love this video - I am slowly coming to a clock mystery. I am IT person going towards retirement and interested in clocks. I have 0340-020 from 77 movement to learn . I just changed a floating balance - since - I think I have destroyed it while putting floating balance in ultrasonic cleaner - I used a water :(. But anyway - I tried to put there a new floating balance - but my clock is working - chiming and striving just it is fast about 5 minutes per one hour... haaa. :) .... I think the rotation of the balance is not sufficient - or any other idea why is that so fast ? I assume that rotation should be larger so amplitude should be greater. Any advice why is so speeding ?? Thank you and wish you good health - greeting from Slovakia - Europe.
If the movement is from 1977, it is one that was manufactured using soft steel for the arbors and then the pivots were plated. Did you have to rebush the second wheel pivot holes? If you did, they will wear excessively as the plating will have worn off and the pivots will be very soft. The balance wheel should rotate 180 degrees each side of resting, or 360 degrees total. If it is not doing that, it is likely power is being lost. It is going to either be worn pivot holes or a weak spring that is the problem. Did you remove the springs from the barrels for cleaning? If so, was the time side spring at least 2 1/2 times greater in diameter than the barrel? If not, replace with a new spring. timesavers.com/search.html?q=hermle+mainspring If pivot holes are worn (especially the second wheel), you will need to either replace the pivots with hardened steel or buy a replacement second wheel from a dealer such as timesavers.
timesavers.com/search.html?q=hermle+second+wheel&go=Search
@@dperry428 Thank you ... I will probably make a full attempt to clean. For security reasons - I purchased one more 340-020 Hamilton from 88. Thank you for your comments
Where did you buy the clock spring unwinding tool? Can you send me the link?
timesavers.com/i-8944167-ollie-baker-style-spring-winder.html?q=spring+winder
Looking to get a mantle clock repaired and was recommended to email you
You can leave an email address in a comment. I hold comments for review before allowing them to be posted, so I will get your address and then delete the comment without posting. We can then communicate via email.
I have a movement made by cuckoo clock works could you make a video on how to synchronize it I took it completely apart to clean and now I need to put it back together
I have a number of videos on cuckoo clock movements on my channel. Here is one: ruclips.net/video/rhHLTUlkOMA/видео.html
How do you set up the strick side
There is nothing to set up on the strike side. The long lever from the chime side releases the pin on the warning wheel of the strike side, drops the rack, catches the warning pin and holds it until the chime is done at the hour. It then drops out of the way and, when the striking is done and the rack is raised up, the lever on the strike side stops the pin on the warning wheel until the long chime lever releases everything at the next hour. There is nothing to set on the strike side. If the chime side is set up correctly, the strike side takes care of itself.
@@dperry428 thank you so much I really enjoy your videos you have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year
The same to you and yours.
Hi,i have a question.... Can i use a lighter weight (cuckoo)? Mine is calling fast. Thanks :)
Yes. In fact, it is the ideal to use the lightest weight that still keeps functionality. The lighter the weight, the less wear on the pivots and pivot holes. However, in the case of the cuckoo going too fast, I suspect the problem is the governor, or fan, is not tight enough on its arbor and is slipping, allowing the gear train to run too fast. The governor is a small, flat brass piece that uses air resistance to slow the train and is supposed to slip on the arbor when the cuckoo ends and the gear train comes to a sudden stop. Its slipping on the arbor dissipates the energy of the moving gear train when it stops to prevent damage to the gear teeth and pin on the warning wheel. You may find a lighter weight slows the train but then doesn't provide enough power to lift the bellows. The best solution is to tighten the governor. It's also possible that, if someone else owned the clock at one time, they put substituted a heavier set of weights to keep a worn clock functioning and the weights are actually too heavy.
Thanks a lot, I really enjoyed watching your videos makes me want to be a watchman :)
Go for it.
Hi dperry I have been watching your video for some time now I have been working on clocks for a while now just as a hobby and sometimes people ask if I could look at there clock for them well I have Bulova westminster has a floating balance wheel with the adjustment on the wheel it runs to slow I have it all the way to the plus side does not make different do you have any ideas on it thank you for your expertise
It's probably a Hermle movement made for Bulova. Does it have a number on the back plate? First, make sure the balance assembly is clean and free of oil. The floating balance should not be oiled. Can be washed in mineral spirits or acetone. When you say floating balance, I'm assuming you mean the one with the balance wheel and a vertical spiral-shaped spring. It's called a floating balance because it has a hollow tube through which a thin wire passes and the balance floats around it. That wire must be taut and not bent. The spiral spring must not be distorted or sag and drag on the bottom of the frame of the assembly. If all that is well and there is no retarding friction, then assess the motion of the balance wheel. It should be approximately 360 degree turn. You can decrease the turn by narrowing the distance between the pins, but don't move them much at all. Decreasing the amount of turn of the balance will speed the clock and vice versa. Weight can also be removed from the wheel to speed it. Here is an article with diagrams you might find helpful. www.nawcc-index.net/Articles/Murray-hermle.pdf
That movement seems like an amateurs nightmare more complicated than a typical american 8day.
These Hermle movements, while made in Germany, are one of the most common movements found in newer clocks. They are no more complicated than any other movement with similar functionality. Keep in mind that most clock movements don't have the quarter-hour chiming mechanism. That adds another whole gear-wheel train.