Q&A: Why I retired from pastoral ministry
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- Опубликовано: 25 ноя 2024
- Pat Kahnke's books are available on Amazon:
"A Christian Case Against Donald Trump" (2024): a.co/d/iVSTqny
"MAGA Seduction: Resisting the Debasement of the Christian Conscience" (2020): a.co/d/1KNX3uQ
My white evangelical pastor told our congregation that there was only one “biblical” way to vote in the last election (for Trump). I was too shocked by his words to get up and walk out during service as I should have, but will never go back.
I greatly appreciate your thoughtful words Pat. You have been, and continue to be, a touchstone of sanity in the madness.
What a horrifying thing to hear in a church service. I'm an atheist, but I promise I'm not here to pick a fight, I'd just like to know: do you think that others in your congregation might have thought this politicking from the pulpit was inappropriate? I my view it should be grounds for revoking tax-exempt status-- even if the pastor had said to vote for another candidate as the one "biblical" way to vote.
@ you might think others would find it horrifying, but I thought a lot of things over the last few months that turned out to be wrong. It was very carefully phrased as a “pro-life” choice, which I expect a very high percentage of the congregants bought. Lots of “I’m not telling you who to vote for BUT there’s only one party / candidate that aligns with God’s views”.
Pat’s brilliantly structured arguments to the contrary have been a sanity lifeline during the last few months.
As a INFJ personality type, I completely understand. I live in my head, am very sensitive to people's emotions, and feel things intuitively that is often difficult to express verbally. I too ask a lot of questions and wander at the edges. I'm surprised that you lasted for 20 years. Because I can sense things, when Trump first came on the stage, I was shocked and disturbed that those calling themselves Evangelical could support this miscreant. It was obvious, his dangerous persona screamed, Warning" to me. I no longer call myself Evangelical, or Christian, as that term has been perverted as well. I simply follow Jesus. These are indeed perilous times. I can't find a church that hasn't been tainted and infectedv by him, and the Religious Right mindset. Your u tube podcasts have been a voice of sanity and wise perspective on the whole tragic train wreck that is the American Church; with a few exceptions, the majority have been sucked into the dark vortex that is MAGA and Trumpism. It's all about seizing political power and control. This is not the Gospel nor the true visage of Jesus. God, wake up your people. It is getting late.
You expressed yourself well here.
My husband feels like you do regarding identifying himself as an Evangelical and a Christian. I don't know if this will help or make a difference but.... I told him to Google the definition of an Evangelical. I told him I am one. I told him that I want to show what a true Evangelical represents....not the MAGA Evangelical. So I personally will not let the MAGA'S...in essence... steel MY identity. My husband also feels this way about the American flag. He said it makes him feel like it must belong to a MAGA when he sees one now. Trump has done so much damage. WE cannot let him change our perspectives.
I totally relate to your comment. I have much in common with you and have a hard time being in my head. My internal dialogue can make my head hurt sometimes.
I have a huge heart that is hard for me protect. I feel things so deeply, I can become so intense and my heart ❤️ is easily broken and causes me pain 🎚️
But there really are so many churches that are not all Trumpy. For example, I attend the United Methodist Church. We're a reconciling church that believes in love and justice. It's awesome! Please give them a try.
Episcopal church may be a better fit for you.
So called Christians or magagelicals as I call them have lost or don’t have any discernment because the deception is so loud and overwhelming..read some of his book, saw some of his tv show and the discernment was right there, I could see through him immediately..had an insight why I could never consider voting for him…I’m not dumb enough 😵💫 I would challenge him to a SAT or IQ test and he wouldn’t have a chance (I say without being prideful)..we must just pray for America and beyond because his time will have a devastating effect..he’s a precursor to the evil one 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🕊
I greatly appreciate your words. I really get where you are coming from. I’d been in pastoral ministry from 1995 to September this year. I got to the point where, because of the depth of my caring, I just couldn’t handle the direct care wounds of pastoral ministry anymore, especially in a deep red MAGA community. Add to that health issues, caring for aging parents and working full time as a hospice nurse, and pastoring a church became overwhelming. I think you are excellent in your calling now. People leaving the Evangelical movement but want to remain biblically rooted need calm, level-headed voices like yours.
Hallo, Pastor Chris, nice to see you! God bless!, 🙌🏾
You are right where you need to be. So thankful I found your channel.
You've helped me to regain calm - much more than you probably will ever know. Thank you for your ministry.💕🙏🏻
What you are doing Pastor is helping us cope n thanking you for your messages.
The Apostle Paul told us to live a quiet and peaceable life. I'm an author and have sold thousands of books and receive frequent requests for interviews, which I turn down 9 out of 10...just because of the strife and backlash I receive from writing about things that others won't say. I think the only person on this earth that should be "FAMOUS" is Jesus Christ. I've always believed that Pastors have a special and unique calling that is rare, a gift of shepherding that can only be given by the Spirit of Christ. Thank you for your videos. I'm currently watching your series on "A Christian Case Against Donald Trump" and have been encouraged by thoughts I already had but could not express as you have so graciously done.
I retired as a pastor in 2015. There were a variety of reasons, but the biggest was the abuse being thrown my way by a handful of parishioners. The lay leaders wouldn’t do anything about them. I had to get out to keep my sanity. I appreciate your work on this channel. It’s a form of pastoral ministry, actually. You’re teaching people and spreading the Gospel. Blessings!
Thank you for your honesty and sincerity 💕💕💕💕
Having just been connected with your posts within the past couple of weeks and now, watching this post I am seeing something I haven't seen, or rather, didn't see because of the confines of expectations set by the modern evangelical/charismatic/pentecostal understanding of what "pastor" means. I no longer consider myself pentecostal, I've never been a charismatic, I am part of a evangelical church in our town of 4,000. I love the analogy of the universe you spoke about which I define as established and the outer rim. I have faced a lot of backlash from those who felt I was stabbing the Republicans in the back prior to this last election. But I've made my stand, my wife and I have made this stand for Christ: NO king but Jesus. You're a breath of fresh air, my friend.
I love learning this about you. And your metaphor about people being shaped a particular way makes a lot about myself and how I interact with the world suddenly click into place. Thank you for that aha moment!
Thanks for asking the questions and bringing us along for what you’re finding. We are the beneficiaries… from your polar opposite, ESFJ!
Thank you for all your messages!! They are really encouraging!!
I hear ya. I was never a pastor, but i enjoy going exploring myself. Unfortunately, when i report back, sometimes folks get angry.
I appreciate this message. For me, I come from a military family and even after someone's retirement, I still would refer someone as "Commander" or "Colonel Kitt" (my next door neighbor and he was retired). I refer to my friends dad who is a lawyer, "Councilor". I have referred to you as pastor on this channel for the same reason but I honor how you want be called and understand better why you choose not be referred this way. Peace to you.
Retired social worker here. There is a therapeutic term called “vicarious traumatization”. It can stick like glue in us. I am glad you had good mentoring.
Retired SpEd Teacher who worked with students with behavioral challenges and with students with moderate to severe handicapping conditions. I have some vicarious and actual experience PTSD.
Amen 🙏 thank you ❤
Thanks again from a Catholic in Cyprus. In Christ and the Eucharist I live and move and have my being. God bless your work and keep you safe.
Thanks for sharing Pat. I, for one, appreciate you using your gift in this way now - to help me and others better understand how we got into this fine mess.
Being a pastor has to be one of the hardest jobs.
Thank you for sharing your journey! I've been listening for a few weeks and find you to have a gentle voice with a firm message. I was in an evangelical church for 30 years and needed to leave but couldn't until Covid happened. I, too, do not think I will ever be an evangelical Christian again. I feel like I've been given permission to accept people for who they are - like my Trans nephew. I still belive my God has saved me - and he can save anybody he chooses. I never liked or voted for Trump. And I hang on to something you relayed in another video - speak truth and defend the vulnerable. And I ask Jesus to show me how to do that. If you or anyone else have gotten this far, thank you for reading and allowing me to be known. God bless.
Thank you for being so transparent with us. I can identify with many of your traits. Kudos to you for listening to those words and acting on them. I appreciate all you do on this channel and your books.
Hi! Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family. 🎉
Thank you Pat
Introvert too. When you mentioned how you collapse after talking and being with people, I could so relate.
Me too. Being around people is truly exhausting for me. And I hate meetings.
It is so important to know what we are called to, and to be self aware. This was good !!
I was 46 in 2008, the year I realized my faith tradition had a blind spot.
Edit: Nice to meet you, fellow INTP :)
🖖
Once again, THANK YOU! God Bless and Happiest of Thanksgiving to you and everyone here!
I receive so much more during my quiet time with Holy Spirit and I talk with my God about everything so church has by become about corporate worship. My friends at church have so many problems. I love them but can't relate to them. God bless 🙏
I'm an introvert too. I know exactly what you're talking about.
Wow, am so impressed that you can verbally define/explain/express who you are and the way you work. I get the introvert portion (I share that) but going to the edges and reporting back is a new concept to me. Maybe that’s the piece that we listeners find helpful to both our growth and grief in these times.
I’m so thankful God is using the gifts He gave you in this capacity! Thank you so much for all of your content; it has been such a huge encouragement.
That's so insightful and as always very well articulated! I enjoy very much how you share all things with such honesty and a humble spirit. I'm so happy to tag along even though I'm not an American, but I am a Christian and am looking forward to other perspectives you are going to share :)
Very interesting, thank you for sharing. For years my boss offered me a management position but I knew based on my personality type it would not be a good fit for me. Many people would have jumped at such a great opportunity but I've never regretted my decision at all.
Thanks for sharing these stories. Looking forward to tomorrow’s video.
Thank you so much for your videos. Fellow sojourner.
Oh goodness, I can identify. As a retired RN and parish nurse at my church , I've been told I am too empathetic . I still work at giving things to Jesus
Thank you for what you do now. I don't think I'll ever call myself an evangelical again either.
Yep, I abandoned evangelicalism and pastoral work.
How about an "exvangelical"? There are now many "deconstructed" Christians who have abandoned the main evangelical, extreme, cold and severe judgementalism of their whole so called "Christian" belief. I don't know what bible they use, but to me it isn't Christ like. They may be Christians, but they lack love. The seem hate filled and have alienated many.
What a great video. Thanks for sharing your journey.
I am INTJ, so I’m not exactly like you , but similar. I feel that God has been preparing me my whole life just for what is happening now.
I mentioned a while back that I felt very uncomfortable with how Christians I had known for years started saying horrible things about Obama, things no Christians should say at all.
Then came Trump. I knew I could never vote for Trump-period-but like you, I couldn’t vote for Clinton either. It was a real struggle to break free the Republican abortion manipulation, but I can see it for what it is now and it has no power over me any longer.
When I told friends back in 2016 that I could not vote for Trump, several said I could not be a Christian if I didn’t vote for him. I’ve been called a socialist so many times it’s almost comical, a libtard, etc., and all by Christians.
I began to realize that Christians were no longer acting very Christ-like, which led me to wonder about the wide gate vs the narrow gate and all of Jesus’s warnings to the body of Christ about false prophets and deception. And, slowly, it all became clear. I felt very alone until I began to see that, though I was in the minority of white evangelical Christians who seem to be most affected by this present darkness, I was not alone.
I no longer call myself or consider myself an evangelical. I’m just a born again Christian-a follower of Jesus.
Your RUclips channel has been a huge blessing to me. I also read the book you recommended: The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory-wow! That was very edifying. Thank you for that recommendation. I’m an information junky and his booked was well researched and documented. I could hardly put it down.
Hang in there. I know that it can be tough fielding the insults, which will only get worse as more people discover you. But God is your righteousness and the joy of the Lord is your strength. Those insults mean you are doing your job well.
Also, age is not a factor. Moses’s eyes never dimmed; though, he was very old. With God, all things are possible.
(PS: If there is any way I can help, let me know.)
Some pastors are so far right that I wonder when they will start teaching the Bible again instead of politics. I left an evangelical church because I missed the Bible, the whole of it and not just revelations.
The first time I took the test, I took time to think about the thinking/feeling questions, so I was basically an INT/FP. The second time, I let go and answered as I felt, so I was a solid INFP.
I really appreciate your frank narrative about your time as a pastor. You are and have been such a great blessing to people.
I no longer call myself an evangelical either. I now say, "I'm a follower of Christ leaning into the Celtic tradition, which means I recognize and honor God's presence in the amazing complexity and variety of his creation that will be perfected through his love and sacrifice. I confess that I am part of and have contributed to the wrongness that exists and am redeemed through Christ."
I’m a licensed counselor, but also was inspired to start God’s Creatures Ministry. I’m pro-life like you, and liked your explanation about voting. I never voted for Trump. I’m a registered Republican because of the conservative views I thought they had.
Thank you for all of your videos. I don't feel alone anymore in this era of the maga movement. I cannot say I am an evangelical Christian as well anymore. I call myself a Christian plain and simple.
I very much appreciate knowing more about your pastoral... past. And you are doing wonderful work here now, even with atheists like myself. Thank you.
I feel ya...from an INFP 😊
I feel like you and your introverted personality were in training your whole life for just this moment in time. I’m an introvert as well and I bottle up so much because I’m not good at expressing myself in a helpful way. My whole family is MAGAt. I just find myself pulling inward. I had to unfriend so many on my feed because I’m struggling with what they’ve done.
This thanksgiving, I will be with fawns, foxes and feathers. Also squirrels, possums and groundhogs! My peaceful place. I volunteer at a wildlife rehab center. It’s the best place,ace for me right now!
But know, you are making a difference for Christian’s like me who have spent years wondering why I couldn’t arrive at their way of thinking. That perhaps I wasn’t close enuf to God….and I’m not frankly. But….at least I’m not feeling so hell bound as I used to! I figured God didn’t want me.
So thank you for your service here!
I am a Catholic Christian who has been following your channel for about two months. I read A Christian Case Against Donald Trump and while it was difficult material to read, I was strangely comforted by the fact that there are Christians who have some common sense and see through this false prophet…unfortunately not enough to defeat him. I trust that God has a plan in all of this. I hope that it is worked out before too much damage is done to our democracy and our relationships.
Thanks for the work you are doing with your books and your calm presence in this storm.
Good on you for understanding your personality, mind, and heart and knowing when to make a change. You definitely have preaching and teaching gifts. Seems to me, though, that you’re a voice calling us back to the core - to the core of Jesus. In contrast, the “evangelicals” have wandered off into some weird and foreign territory.
Pat - just want you to know that I apprecieate what you do. It's refreshing to me to have someone to listen to that embodies my own beliefs - especially when it comes to Trump (I bought your book BTW - good job!). And I also appreciate your explanation of your personality type. That was very enlightening. I'm a 72 year old INFJ male and am continuously amazed that the majority of our U.S. population can justify voting for a 'corrupt sociopathic' person such as Trump. I frequently muse that "We're surrounded by them" (in reference to Trump supporters). I know that God chooses leaders to facilitate His own long-range goals for humanity, but that doesn't make it any easier to realize that our national morality is so driven by choosing to travel the road of un-christian like behavior. Seems the bible is right - the road to destruction is indeed quite wide while the path of righteousness is narrow. I thank God daily for the hope that he has given us with respect to being spared from the tribulation that is on the horizon.
Well stated!
Thanks.
You are the only one who can say what is right for you and what your calling is. You are doing good and useful work here in your videos, so I think you could rightfully still call yourself a pastor as one of your roles in life, even if you are also doing other things as well. A building is not what makes a good pastor.
Pat, there is a sadness to you that concerns me. I have a wave of questions I’d like to ask you, out of a fellow brother’s concern. I completely understand the reason for no longer wanting to be known as an evangelical. I have choked on that word when talking to non-Christian friends and have felt the need to define “evangelical” for them as I see it from a Biblical perspective. I hope you are staying strong in your faith throughout this season of life. I will be praying for you.
@robpool7814 Feel free to reach out to me at culturefaithandpolitics@gmail.com. I'm behind on my emails, but I'd like to talk with you.
When you spoke of bearing parishioners' burdens as a "weight," I thought of how some Christian traditions refer to matters that God lays on our hearts to pray about as "burdens from the Lord." In my own experience, I have often found relief from the type of weights you describe by spending time in earnest intercession about those matters.
Well, it's just my perspective.
Keep reporting!
Thank you for being a fundamentalist voice in a cultural hurricane, helping us hold onto the true Anchor, Christ. On the right, there's MAGA, and on the left there are nihilists who don't believe in anything. I almost lost my faith through doubt in college and only loving parents who were very devout were able to let me know that is normal and not to falter in faith vs. knowledge.
I don’t understand what it is that you think you weren’t able to ministerially provide for your parishioners. Because if I were at your church and saw you speaking your heart and soul and connecting with me on such a deep level, i would think that that is how a pastor should be. Perhaps you were trying to hide your talents because you were taught that a pastor was supposed preaching “this way or that way.” Seems to me you preach compassion, honesty, curiosity and love.
I have social anxiety disorder. I feel people's pain, distress. It has taken it's toll on me. I also have the gifts of vision, wisdom, discernment and boldness. I am often called " of strong opinion." Ironically being a person with SAD the Holy Spirit emboldens me to beat people with the Bible for relevancy and knowledge and correction. God called me and qualified me.
Your gifts are helping !
Christian Nationalist have used words like evangelicals to make it a negative title and twists scripture for political agenda that is self serving and just plain wrong.
I’m honestly confused about what you wrote, especially “the Holy Spirit emboldens me to beat people with the Bible”.
Can you elaborate?
Interesting. Thanks.
Ya just hafta go INTiPping sometimes... As an INFP, I go INFliPping all the time.
I think that the term evangelical has gotten distorted and twisted with Trump, and has been intertwined with Trump politics and Republican Conservativism. I think that we need to redefine evangelical to include all of the Bible’s teachings even those that are uncomfortable. In my own meditations and readings of Scripture I am finding that the teachings of the Bible fall in line with more Eastern philosophies, and not with Western individualism. Western individualism came from the teachings of the Bible in its original cultural contexts.
I've been following you for quite a while, specifically prior to the 2024 election. You have helped me put into words how I have been feeling about Christianity in the United States. I have a lot of questions. One is about Christian Zionism. I have been in church all my life on and off and going to Bible studies with the best theologians that I could find. I'm very perplexed as to why Christian Zionism is still supported in churches across the United States. I hope one day you will talk about that.
👏🫂🙏
Do you have a church that you attend? I ask because I’m struggling with being part of organized religion during this time of trumpism.
Maybe try the Anglican Church. While not impervious to maga, it has wide doors.
Have you been tested for ADD? Might also be figuring in (whether you’ve ever had the H part of it or not) or mild ASD?
Incidentally the I part of the personality test is the one that never changes for me but the others do depending on what I’m going through 😅
Yep - I got diagnosed with ADD as an adult. Treating that has made a huge difference.
You are describing me. You are an empath
No one - in the outer worlds - knows anything until s/he has the mind of Christ. Have you met anyone in that state? Socrates said, "I only know one thing - that I know nothing."
I think too much importance is placed on the ‘ministers’ of the church, whereas everyone in the church body is supposed to be an integral part of the body. For example, where is it written that the pastor is supposed to preach a 47 minute sermon at every church service? And what has happened to the prophetic gifts? They have gone by the wayside. When these gifts are operating properly the Saints, including the pastor, are built up.
So.....I believe....out of respect many of us are still referring to you as "Pastor".
Would you like us not to do that?
@Rae6357 Thanks for asking - it doesn't "bother" me, of course, but it's more about me not wanting to use that title online. I'll explain it more thoroughly in my video, but in short, I have a view of the title of "pastor" that I don't want to use it unless I'm operating under the accountability of an organization that ordains me for that purpose. Basically, since people tend to give weight to something a "pastor" says, I believe in not operating as a free agent. I want people to be able to go to my authorities and tell them if I'm teaching some off-base things under the title of pastor. I'm not worried about doing that myself, but it bugs me when I see other people doing it. So that's the principle I'm operating under. Hopefully that'll make more sense when I explain it in full.
@@culturefaithandpoliticsit makes total sense. I look forward to hearing tomorrows video. You are very humble and so respected! I have said it before but it is worth repeating... you help my emotions feel validated. I feel calmed after listening to you. Thank you for all your sharing.
You seem to be saying that you don't have the "pastoral gift." In my view, pastors of all types are needed, but any given church needs a change of pastor from time to time, so that one pastor can complement the gifts of another. BTW, I too am an INTP. Maybe look into the "orthodoxy" of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. You might find some new truth.
There are many kinds of pastors, Pat. I respect your honesty and humility in this matter, but (and I apologise if this statement is disrespectful of your convictions) this video is exactly that sort of thing a true pastor would do. You may have no choice in the matter... if you get my drift.
I wonder Pat if "evangelical" meant a ministry that looked like Billy Graham, would you still call yourself an "evangelical"? I feel that the fundamentalist of the likes of Bob Jones realized one day the term they had was a negative term and so they adopted and started to identify as "evangelical" even though they by definition were fundamentalist..... And no one stopped them. That is where we are today. They brought all the negative baggage and spoiled the term. Thoughts?
Hi I would like to know what to do about the church go to. We have to pray for Trump because he’s a good man, l know trump is a wicked man he is not a man of God, but they believe he is and be good for Israel and the world. I don’t feel right about going there now. Am I just being silly
There is the answer, " you retired, you" no the Lord. And to you and all of your followers, just think about this: You worked with all your mind, words, and you used "your position as a pastor" to influence your brothers in Chrits not to vote for President Trump. You talked and talked and talked about your personal agenda and opinions. Well, what did happen? God answers prayers. Bur He only answers prayers that are just, righteous, and according to His will. Now, for you Sir , instead of attacking the President of your great nation, you should do and teach the unchangeable Holy Word that TEACHES YOU AND YOUR followers to PRAY FOR THE AUTHORITIES, because the BIBLE SAYS: THEY ARE chosen for God. You should be praying for the elected president and teaching CHRISTIANS to do the same. Contrary to that, you are rebellious and worse. You are influencing God children to do the same. Pray, pray I the Spirit, and let Him guide you to the right and holy aptitud. Pardon my English
And did you PRAY FOR THE AUTHORITIES when it was Biden, Obama, or Clinton?
Right now, and for nearly four years, the "President of your great nation" is Joe Biden, and he will be until January 20, 2025. You said Pat Kahnke "should be praying for the elected president". Joe Biden is the current "elected president". Are you praying for him in these last two months?