If your a warlock you should ALWAYS take arcana as your proficiency. With arcana proficiency you can create spell scrolls. Spend a little cash to rack up those level 1 spells (hex, shield, absorb elements etc). You should never use those spells with your limited pact magic. But yea spell points are cool just wished it worked on DnDbeyond.
Well like, in the video he already said "you will have to change the spell point regen to a short rest," so I think it's safe to assume that he already knows this doesn't work RAW
There is a reason it says „The Spell Points by Level table applies to bards, clerics, druids, sorcerers, and wizards.“ and not mentions warlocks. If you give warlocks this, you mess up the class fundamentally. Either you let them regain spell points at a short rest and make them OP or you don’t and they become substantially underpowered compared to other classes because that is their bread and butter.
Warlock: "I ran out of magic already." Fighter, rogue, monk, ranger, paladin: "You don't need magic to be cool." Cleric, druid: "There are better patrons in the pantheon lol" Wizard, sorcerer: "Nice cantrip bro!"
It's cool that such optional rules exist, so both play styles are possible. But i prefer classic warlock, because i don't see the class as pure spell caster. Pact magic brings an interesting problem to the table, which is fun to solve. Which means that pact slots are better used on really impactful spells, like synaptic static. Or, and this is because warlocks get many more spells known than spell slots, that they can be perfect situational casters solving niche or unique problems in-game. Spider climb, for example. Plus warlocks get tons of spell like mileage out of invocations. Mask of many faces is just extremely good. Eyes of the runekeeper. Eldritch sight. Sculptor of flesh. The entire tome pact can rival wizard's ritual casting and then some. But i like my warlocks angry, that's why I'm cool with armor of agathys, because it will last twice as long if warlock rages.
The problem is it really limits what spells you wanna pick up as a warlock. Expeditious Retreat, Hex, Illusory Script, Protection from Evil & Good, & Unseen Servant. All of these spells are made to be cast at just 1st level, but as a warlock you have to waist one of your precious resources to do fun things like have a servant fetch you things or create magic writing. So now you have to decide if you do fun things with magic but make the party spend an hour needlessly resting, or save all your magic for combat and pigeon hole yourself to Armor of Agyths or damage spells.
@@MrDrewwills you could just pick up pact of the time and book of ancient secrets to cast both illusory script and unseen servant at will. or I don't know, pick up magic initiate or some shit. the whole point of the class is compromise. do you want to use a spell slot on roleplay? fine but don't whine about not having that slot when you need it.
@@FeverDM Those were just examples. Let's say i'm introducing someone to the game and they wanna play the warlock of an eldritch god. They come up with these cool and creative ideas for spells, but then I have to tell them. "Well you have to either sit around for 1 hour or get to cast 1 spell during combat." They're going to say that sucks, and how come everyone else gets to spend all of combat throwing around big cool spells. If I tell this person "It's because those limitations make warlock unique" they're gonna tell me that's dumb and they'll be upset because their characters worse than everyone elses. Then if I say "Well you can pick up magic initiate" they'll look it up and see that it's 1 first level spell 1 time per day and a cantrip. And to take that they'll have to make their stats worse from their other players. This is a hobby people play to have fun, everything should be focused on making sure someone has fun. If a warlock wants to cast fun low level spells more often, is that going to make things less fun for them and the other players? If the answer is no then you should always do it.
Good point, it probably would suck for a new player in that situation. I'm just saying that warlock has a lot of options and its not just about throwing around a ton of leveled spells despite how fun that is
@@FeverDM Yeah, warlocks are super unique, but my point is switching to spell points doesn't change the maximum amount of fire power they can dish out. It really just comes down to letting them use lower-level spells more often. Which is another problem actually. You see all these cool spells on the warlock spell list that you really wanna use, but you constantly have to second guess yourself on if it's worth it. You can't just use a spell, it has to be this whole toss up of "can I convince the party it's worth it to have a short rest?" "does resting make sense in the story?" "If none of those are an option will I need those spell slots later?" Honestly just getting rid of that feeling is a good enough reason for me.
Spell points variant rule actually makes sense, why is no one talking about this? Personally when I play a warlock I often ignore hex. Below 5th level, in a combat that lasts ~5 rounds you get like 12 points worth of damage out of it, provided it's casted on the right target. Hellish rebuke at 2nd level instantly does almost that damage. Armor of agathys at 2nd level also deals 10 damage as soon as someone hits you. At 2nd level also, the darkness spell grants advantage on your attacks. This bonus often exceeds hex' damage output as well as protect you. Alternatively there's shadow blade, hold person or misty step where you might keep a spell slot for. But at level 5, when the spell supposedly becomes twice as good, it becomes near useless. Summoning spells and hypnotic pattern are simply a way better use of your concentration, and thus spell slot. If the investment isn't the same however, hex might become worth it again because you could use it on more occasions, or combine it with misty step as you mentioned before. After third level, there's never a point where I would consider getting the hex over a spell like summon lesser demons, those buggers might not be friendly but you can actually cast them into the enemy backline and they will start fighting them. I don't need control I need chaos! But if you take one of the other options, ignoring the additional benefits of having a summon by ignoring the fact that it takes an action not a bonus action, the shadowspawn deals 1d12+6 damage while the hex spell only gives 2d6. And at 7th level this difference only widens because now the single summons get multiattack from themselves. As weird as it may sound, the shadowspawn deals more damage then you yourself would do at level 7+. The spawn by itself can deal 2d12+14, while you (without hex) would do 2d10+10. With hex you'd deal an average of 2d6+2d10+10=28, while the shadowspawn alone deals 27, ignoring your additional 21 points of damage from you (yes the hex spell only adds 1/3 of your base damage). I have ignored all the to hits, because they all use your spellcasting modifier for that which makes them a constant.
I played DnD in the 80's and 90's a lot. And we were using spell points a lot back then for all magic users. It gives a lot of flexibility to the casters and allows multiple uses of the same spells between rests. However, it is more difficult for the DM to track as there is a little more math. This is fine if you can trust your players. But it also allows a greater chance a cheater will sneak some by.
Cool variant rule. But I would still homebrew warlock to have a number of spells slots equal to its proficiency modifier, such as the RAW version won't feel left out.
This really helped me out, I've been running spell points for a while and was struggling a lot with how to make warlocks and specifically my Order of the Profane Soul player feel more like the other classes, especially because i also have an Arcane Trickster at my table. Thanks!
One of my DMs had a very creative solution to pact magic. He basically created a mystic arcanum esque feature. He called it "Arcane reminders" As your Patron grants you higher boons, so too does he provide a bitter sweet reminder of how you were before their benevolence. Each time your pact magic slots grow to a new level, you receive a spell slot of the previous one. Unlike your pact magic, your Arcane spell slots are regained on a long rest. This means you gain a bit more standing power for longer tuns between rests, and you also don't feel cheated for keeping a spell that doesn't upcast. So now sort of you have 1 spell slot for each level, except for 5th, which you'll have a bunch of short rest slots of
I think that the way warlock is currently makes choosing spells interesting. You can more easily swap out lower power spells for their higher power versions (such as Hold Person to Hold Monster, and Fireball to Synaptic Static).
The way I see it, if a player wants to play a Warlock, or any class for that matter, give the players the circumstances to allow the character to shine. For example, I have a Goblin Warlock (Fiend Patron, Pact of the Chain). He's easily one of, if not the most favourite character I've played thus far. He has: -Rod of the Pact Keeper -A whistle which fills a similar role, while summoning random Goblinoid reinforcements -Ring of Fire Elemental Command (infused with a Fire Elemental) He has ample means to keep his Pact Magic reserves fresh, and the ring allows him to cast a few spells in a pinch when he's out of slots. The result? Rarely do I feel caught short, and always I'm having fun. So props the my DM for finding the balance I guess.
i think thats the point though. spells like shield and misty step dont gain any benefits being upcasted but are very good and hard to say no to outright. I love warlocks how they are and find other ways around the limitations as invocations are absolutely amazing. grab a feat such as aberrant dragonmark/ magic initiate for shield and/or fey touched for misty step AND hex and youve solved the worse of those issues. i know feats arent free, but something like fey touched is so freakin good on a warlock
I agree with Warlock being better if they had spell points, simply converting it this way is wonky and gets somewhat overpowered. The scaling of the spell points needs to be adapted to stay both fair and be a smooth increase in power level instead of a bumpy one
I like this it just seems to open up the spell options and doesn't limit them to only the upcasted spells and highest level spells. You don't get a ton of spell option by doing only 2. I have a fathomless level 7 and he would cast summon undead and armor of agathy. Going for a Davy Jones type.
I would say keep pact magic along with the magic pool. But keep the magic pool only able to be recharged on a long rest. It means that a warlock has a lot more at their disposal, but it won’t invalidate other casters who require long rests to regain spell slots.
D&D needed Mana Points like in videogame rpgs. Spells needed a mana cost and not a level. This would have helped as a substitute even for the number of uses of “magical” abilities, since instead they would have costed a certain amount of mp. Way less tracking of resources, and a better easier system for spellcasting
This is sorcery points with extra steps. It wouldent fly on a warlock because there’s of the difference between pact magic and spellcasting. Simply take a level in another class that gives you first level spells. You can use both your pact magic and spell casting. Using those 1st level spell slots gained from taking a level in another class for things like shield. Then there’s options when creating a class like custom lineage, using the free feat you get to attain say fey touched. You get access to misty step, and your choice of 1st level spell for free from certain schools of magic that can be casted with the feat. So you get a free first level spell, a free 2nd level misty step, 3 first level spell slots you can use for your warlock spells and you still get your pact magic to use for your stronger warlock spells. Easy.
The thing I loved about playing a warlock was the forced movement options you can get for your elder it h blast. It makes the cast feel like battlefield chess masters moving pieces around a board. It gives you great teamwork options with another caster’s AoE, it guarantees none of your allies are getting shut down by grapples, and it lets you take advantage of any environmental elements on a map. If there’s a battle on a bridge, near a pool of lava, on a boat, etc, the warlock quickly becomes the most useful member of the party as he hurls enemies into hazards. Warlocks also get some really cool utility spells like unseen servant (use a bonus action to have it run around the battlefield dropping caltrops and picking up anything someone drops), flock of familiars to give everybody advantage, and summon shadowspawn to throw around de buffs. It’s a similar playstyle to the sorcerer where you might not be using a ton of different spells, but you get to manipulate your spells into fitting whatever situation you’re in. The spell points method would definitely be cool and add versatility to the warlock toolbox, but it’s already a super versatile class as long as you’re creative and your dm is doing their job giving you chances to use your cool features.
At that point why not just give warlock a regular casting feature that recovers on a long rest? 🤨 make them kinda like sorcerers. They are gonna still be unique enough thanks to eldritch evocations and their patron's features.
First character I played was a Tiefling Warlock. Played to 10th level. I had a lot at my disposal: many cantrips from Pact of Tome, my racial spells, a couple of magic items, my pact magic, and, most importantly, invocations. Warlocks have limited casting because their Pact Boon and Invocations give them more flexibility than most other classes. I took the Invocation that let me cast Levitate at will and used it in combat on my enemies. Also had Disguise Self at will and tried to confuse them. Honestly, the "optimized hexblade" style just feels like a waste of a Warlock sometimes, given the vast range the class could have with its 2 subclasses and long invocations list.
Yeah, some people seem to forget that their invocations can give them vastly more casting capabilities, granted at a limited cost in spell selection. That and given the fact short rests could be easy to come by, the warlock can have a ton of spells cast in a single day.
Wow somebody else who figured out that the stereotypical variant human Sentinel pole arm master adventurers League legal Hex blade that falls for all the trap spells that burn through the only resource you really have is a trap to begin with. And yes invocations are essentially well they're class specific feats that you get a whole lot more of from a different list while still getting your feats. If you were instead to make. Verdan Fighter 1/2 Arcana Domain 1 TomeLock 3+ you'll get Proficiency in two physical saving throws advantage in two mental savings throws that you're going to be stacking high anyway for the most part and you will get at least six cantrips or more, a really awesome book that you can do a lot of awesome stuff with none the least of which is any and all rituals. Oh and you'll never have to take a one or two on creation for recovering a hit die ever again. You also get all weapons and all armor with this build you're also only a single level away from action surge. Take that poorly designed warlock base line and flush it down the toilet.
I solved the problem by having the Warlocks at my table perform a 10-minute ritual to get their spell slots back. They can perform the ritual while the party is cleaning up after the battle, patching up wounds and looting. They can perform this ritual a number of times per day equal to half their Warlock level (rounded up) plus their Charisma bonus, so the feature gets better if they heavily invest in Warlock levels, but it's still fine even on a dip if they have a decent Charisma bonus. This replaces the short rest recovery, but they can perform the ritual as part of a short rest. It also encourages the Warlock to use their Pact Magic for utility instead of just for combat. My players like it because it lets the Warlock feel like a full caster with some limitations and it doesn't result in the Warlock whining for short rests all the time, which slows the game down.
I might be dumb but warlocks cast at the highest spell slot possible so either way they still can only cast 2 spells. So in his example he cast the first spell bam 5/10 left then if he cast hex (has to cast at the highest lvl) which is 3rd lvl so he would still use 5 and thats it so still only 2 spells cast
Warlocks don't HAVE to upcast their spells. They are forced to do so by the fact that you only have high level spell slots to use. In your example, the warlock could cast say a Fireball for 5, and then if they cast Hex they could still do it just for 2 points, thus keeping 3 points in stock. They aren't forced to cast Hex as a 3rd level spell and use 5 points on it too.
I use spell points for sorcerers and include their sorcery points into that mix for use as spells or metamagic. It really helps represent a sorcerer as an innate spellcaster with a well of power inside them.
I do precisely this as well. it gives them a little more fluidity in how they use their magic, and reduces the resource cost for converting spell slots into SP. since sorcerer's already have a built-in mechanic for swapping spell slots around, this just effectively removes the resource cost associated with that. it's a nice little buff that doesn't affect balance as heavily as spell points would for someone like a wizard or druid or cleric
@@Wence42 I was originally concerned with how the newer subclasses would affect their power balance. Since they can cast specific spells at a much reduced rate. But after seeing it in action it really doesn't and I've been considering creating lists for adding that feature to the older subclasses too.
we mostly fixed warlock's feel by just sticking to the whole 6-8 encounters, by stretching it over a few days instead of 6-8 encounters for 1 day, and using the "gritty realism" ruleset, it really gives a bump to short rest resources, including pact slots
This wouldn't change anything. Since warlocks are required to always cast a spell at the highest level they're able, converting your spell slots into points does nothing, you still just have to use that many points to upcast it appropriately.
I had not read this rule variant. This makes a lot of sense for these odd casting classes. The ability to convert spell slots like this sounds like a really fun way to play a lot of the casters.
its homebrew the rule is for spell casters not pact magic and warlocks always cast at max level so its homebrewing rules for both pact magic and this variant rule other wise you would have the same problem on warlock just branded as spell points instead of spell slots
Back in the 80's and 90's we used a similar system of spell points in place of spell slots for magic users. It made a lot more sense to most of us and made the magic users more flexible. The downside to it is now you have a total of points to keep up with instead of slots. And as a DM that does make it harder to keep up with as instead of checking off slots used by a player, you have to do math now. If you have players you trust this is not a problem. But cheaters can more easily slip one or two by without anyone noticing, especially low level spells.
Normally I don't really like spell points, but I think this is a fine application of the variant rule. Base warlocks are lackluster, and this does give a lot more flexibility.
This only works assuming the base level of the spell. As a warlock, you're forced to upcast so you should be forced to spend the same 5 points for misty step, not the lessened value of 3
As much as I like the spell point system this gives more functionality than the Warlock was designed to have...for better or worse. It kind of touches on one of the reasons I don't care for Warlocks mechanically, in that they are very much a class defined by their restrictions rather than what their unique abilities, which is that they are "supposed" to lack the flexibility of other spellcasters to use spells at lower levels and have frankly far too few spell slots compared to other casters. Putting aside how balanced it is I tend to find them less fun than other spellcasters because of that. That being said I would absolutely allow this at my table if a player wanted to use it, I don't think it breaks anything. Besides I kind of thought that the mystic's psionic system was a better designed system than the other classes spellcasting system, even if its power in lower levels was asymmetrical to the other classes.
The mystic's abilities ape early editions pre-codification of psionics. It's pretty broken so I understand how your assessment of spell points with Pact magic is just as flawed.
@@MorinehtarTheBlueWell you fell for my trap and gave me a chance to talk about my favorite irrelevant dead class so I'm going to take it. I'm not going to lie, I have no idea what point you are trying to make in your first sentence. As for the overall sentiment though I think I should probably clarify that my point here was never that mystics weren't broken. Their folly was that they were too late to the game, and so they were given a ton of spell like abilities that didn't count as spells which made for hellish cross class (see mystic/Barb/Druid), didn't play with counter play measures like counterspell and dispel magic, they don't have any need for any components, and they have a fair amount of abilities that were begging for a nerf...like being able to maintain concentration on multiple abilities at once. As I said, there was some asymmetry between them and the other classes. That being said none of that is what I was referring to when I said that psionics were better designed than spells. I was specifically referring to disciplines being a more organic and interesting way of learning abilities compared to the grab bag of spell. Disciplines are groups of abilities that you pick at certain levels that all follow a theme. The abilities they give you all cost varying amounts of psi points, and so as you progress you naturally acquire more abilities based off your increasing psi limit. This sort of interplay meant that you actually felt like you were getting better at your abilities as you leveled up, instead of just picking sporadic spells. Now you might disagree with me on that concept or argue that I could do something similar with spells (which you can do SOME of the time depending on what themes you want to go with) but I found it to be far more interesting than the 1-9 spell slot system with various classes getting access to hopelessly disparate spell lists and access to equally disparate spells. Also why is my view on Warlocks with points flawed?
The way you suggest doesn't work that way. Warlocks always cast spells at the highest level they can cast. Even in the DMG where the spell point variant is says it doesn't include warlocks. Because even if they use spell points it doesn't change how many times they can cast a spell. Warlocks cannot choose to cast at a lower level. That's a part of what separates Pact Magic from normal spellcasting. In the example you did, by the rules, you would cast Armor of Agathys for 5 points and then Hex for 5 points. That is because they are always cast at the highest level, in this case, 3rd level.
You are misinterpreting how the Spell Slots section of Pact Magic works from the example. For example, when you are 5th level, you have two 3rd-level spell slots. To cast the 1st-level spell witch bolt, you must spend one of those slots, and you cast it as a 3rd-level spell. It says "you MUST use these spell slots" (because they are the only ones you have as per Pact Magic alone) and "you cast it as a 3rd-level spell" (because you are using as a 3rd-level spell slot to cast the Witch Bolt, so of course it would upcast). HOWEVER, if you read the ACTUAL rule part that is not the example: The Warlock table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your warlock spells of 1st through 5th level. The table also shows what the level of those slots is; all of your spell slots are the same level. To cast one of your warlock spells of 1st level or higher, you must expend a spell slot. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a short or long rest. This piece of text never states "you must always cast your Warlock spells at their highest level". Moreover, if you gain spell slots from another source, you can cast your Warlock spells using those slots at a level that is not the max your pact magic can achieve.
Spell points does NOT work officially for Warlock. This is a misleading video as you do not lay this out. WARLOCKS DO NOT HAVE THE SPELLCASTING FEATURE! They have the PACT MAGIC feature. The spell points can only officially apply to non-warlock casters. Its not an optional rule for warlocks. The issue everyone has, is that they want to play any other casting class and reflavor their relationship with their power origin to that more like a patron and warlock. That is, if you just want the idea of a sugardaddy giving you magic. Warlocks are designed very much to be a roleplaying class. The relationship with their patron and their overall themes and story are forefront and make physical changes to them. Which is why theyre given a bunch of options to choose from to specialize in like the battlemaster FIGHTER is. The problem is people dont understand how to play warlocks. Yall wanna put the class in boxes that it was never intended to fit in. Pick on-theme spells and more importantly THINK VERY CAREFULLY ABOUT YOUR PLAYSTYLE AND WHAT INVOCATIONS TO PICK TO BOOST THAT OVER TIME! The Warlock is honestly fine how it is. People just need to realize that they actually just wanna play a sorcerer or paladin, or they just want eldritch blast, which case I would ask your dm if they allow first level feats, or take a feat at 4th for magic initiate and take Eldritch Blast. You can even take Eldritch Invocation feats to get some of those. If you just want the cantrip and a little flavor but wanna be a tank or something be a fighter and put your feats into warlock flavored magic initiate and eldritch invocations.
Just a more complicated way of giving them Sorcery points. Honestly, I never liked how they did Warlocks. They should have been Mystic Arcanums all the way down. No spell slots at all.
I understand why Gary Gygax despised spell point systems. You can describe how the entire magic system works in D&D (B/X, BECMI) and AD&D without mentioning any rules, and that adds a lot to the flavor of the game. But the moment you start talking about points it's as if all the magic vanishes. It might work well, from a game design standpoint, but I can't help but feel like something special is lost in the process. It becomes less about fantasy and more about managing game mechanics. At least that's how I feel.
Another person who thinks Warlocks should be Sorcerers. Invocations and Pact Features are what make the Warlock special, not the amount of spells they can cast. If combat happens and my Celestial Warlock dropping Flaming Sphere on an enemy, then using Eldritch Blast to push the enemy into the sphere over and over doesn't cause enough damage to be useful, then that is a battle that should be run from. On that note, if I'm being pursued by something and I keep throwing up a perfect illusion to disguise myself the moment I pull a corner, they fly right by me. I walk back around the opposite way, changing my illusion again and disappear into a crowd without ever touching my spell slots. Getting peppered by arrows? How about using Silent Image to throw up cover that, yes the arrows can go through, but hides where you are to them. Then, drop the cover, Blast 2 or 3 of them and run for real cover. Again. Never touched a spell slot and just did anywhere from 2 to 20 (or 7 to 34 with Agonizing Blast) while being pretty safe. Warlocks are characters that have a magical gimmick granted to them, not true spellcasting. Magics that compliment a character, turning an average person into something that can enforce his and his patron's will, often at a cost. Think of them that way.
There is a mana system to. You add you spell slots x level. That's your mana. Each mana is a slot so level 3 spells cost 3 mana, simple. The only exception is 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th level spells. You can only cast 6th and 7th lev spells twice per day and 8th and 9th once. The system grants you good versatility and a simple way to keep track of how much juice you have left. Warlocks get 20 mana max but recharge on a short rest. Wizards and the like get 90 / long rest. A lock does not need to cast at max but will still have to rest 5 times before beating the wizards slots.
So using spell points ignore the whole thing of "casting at max level spell slot available", defeating the unique thing about warlock's "spellcasting" I'm not saying it's wrong, and I'm sure it will be fun, but I personally don't like it, and I don't know if I would allow it as a DM It feels like saying that ranger's fighting style choices are too few, and allowing him to choose between all of them (including something that thematically doesn't fit with the concept of a standard ranger) It could be arranged to fit certain ideas, but this shouldn't be standard
I think the warlock is fine as is. No one is forcing you to play eldritch blaster. There are so many other customization options. The warlock known spells vs spell slots are set up to make the class be unique and have to get rid of lower level spells that aren't worth the higher level spell slot. For as much as people in this game community vehemently defend creativity and flexibility available for a table top rpg instead of a video game, we have a vocal minority complaining they only see warlock as an eldritch blaster. All warlocks just take hex and eldritch blast and agonizing blast and that's what you do. Ignore everything else. Then whine. The invocations are so cool. A pact of the chain voice of the chain master familiar is a ton of spells baked in. It acts as a permanent unseen servant or mage hand. It scouts better than a ranger or rogue or wizard familiar. It can attack. It can use your voice better than minor illusion. It is arcane eye. It is knock (resummon it within 30 feet on the other side of the door). It can intelligently feed you a potion when you go down while invisible. It counts as beast bond, beast sense, animal messenger, message, sending. The wizard familiars don't have hands, are stuck within 100 feet and have int scores 3 and lower and are all beasts. If your DM doesn't understand that difference don't play pact of the chain. Your party can avoid ambushes and know how to set up before a fight. However, your DM can be an asshole and hamper all this because they don't get it and it gets in the way of their railroad.
The spell point variant rule is for classes with the spellcasting feature, but check with each DM. If you and your DM decide to overcome the limitations of the Warlock's Pact Magic then it could be a lot of fun. But instead of converting spell slots into spell points just use the charts provided. At 5th level you get 27 spell points and can now cast at will as this levels the playing field between the spellcasting and pact magic features. Instead of only casting 2 spells each short rest, your warlock can cast as many spells as they have spell points for.
I personally use a halfway system - Spontaneous casters like Sorcerer and Bard use a variant of spell points; Prepared casters like Wizard and Cleric use a variant of the existing spell slot system, and Warlock gets a mixture of both, remaining the only class whose resources can recharge on a short rest. Making one of the most flavorful classes in the game also be one of the least mechanically-interesting classes to play bothers me immensely.
if you are gonna use THAT rule...just play a fucking sorcerer, then you get meta magic on top of your spell point system, the Sorcerer is already built around. and warlocks are supposed to always be upcasting their 2 spell slots to max level, thats part of how they differentiate between other arcane caster classes. and yes, some spells have the exact same effect regardless of what level it is upcast too. its a limiting factor for the class for a reason. again to create difference between a wizard or bard or sorcerer, or hell even arcane trickers and other arcane sublcass casters. this is just a "Diet Coke" version of a sorcerer.
Not really. "The Warlock table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your warlock spells of 1st through 5th level. The table also shows what the level of those slots is; all of your spell slots are the same level. To cast one of your warlock spells of 1st level or higher, you must expend a spell slot. You regain all expended Pact Magic spell slots when you finish a short or long rest." So you have to expend one of two spell slots. If u inerpret this this to spell points, then u will have to expend 5 spell slots on each of ur casts. So yeah, no free cookies 4 u.
this increases the power of warlocks too much. warlocks are not meant to have the ability to cast that many spells. the truth of the matter is that agonizing blast gives the warlock consistent damage output on par with martial characters. I do not recommend this change. but of course, your table = your rules.
Not to sound negative but if it's your homebrew you should say that at the beginning of the video and express this isn't RAW things like this will confuse new players trying to learn
Whenever I hear pact Magic I think of the "Tomb of Magic" for dnd 3.5. They had a Class called the "Binder" which could choose one (later more) of several Vestiges (powerful but banished Creatures, basically lost Gods) and bind them to themselves, giving them certain Powers and Limitations during that time. I love this Class and there are convertions to 5e from it. For me at least this is much more exciting than the normal Warlock Abilities in 5e. You could create powerful combos of Vestiges, there were cool Prestigeclasses (similar to subclasses) and magic Items for them. Easily the most interesting Class out of the 3 in the Book.
I loved that book too, my favourite was the shadowcaster. With their spell like abilities that eventually progressed so antimagic wouldn't be a problem for them. Had great fun with that character combining a blink effect and their shadow arrow to teleport around battle and poke things at range.
@@QCreyton I loved the flavor and the progression from the Shadowcaster. Sadly the spells were rather uninspired. Mostly just reflavored known spells. And Truename Magic was the coolest concept but the Math was just off...
it honestly would make warlock less battle centered and open the up the rp doors a bit I don't have comprehend language because it take one of my 2 slot and it's such a low level spell
Incorrect. Warlocks always cast the spell at the highest level. So a 5th level Warlock is always casting those spells at third level therefore costing 5 spell points per spell cast. so two.
Okay… so… I get this… but this is basically giving the warlock regular spell casting again with normal spell slots. Because now spells cost points, but like higher level slots are most costly. In my honesty opinion I think they should get their 3rd slot MUCH sooner. Probably level 6 or something. And at level 20 they end off with just one more slot than normal. I’d probably just make it tired to proficiency bonus for how many pact slots they have. But that could make them grow too fast
But isn't that just a sorcerer then? Isn't the whole thing about warlocks that makes them unique the fact that they are forced to cast their spells at max level all the time?
I tend to treat Warlock spell caster as selectable class features that act like spells rather than as spells, so it’s never been a problem for me. Maybe the key to Warlocks is to treat their pact magic like arcanum or invocations instead of spells?
isn't this just sorcerer points? like using this rule just get rid of one of the only good things about sorcerers? like they have a few more uses but it's meant to be unique to them, if just given to every caster they lose one of their only upsides. sorcerers are already quite bad, like for anything besides role play I'd never play any sorcerer if I was aloud to pick 1 any wizard subclasses. this comment isn't against the video you just doing content just a statement against it from a guy who want sorcerers to have something more unique to them. (their special form doesn't count as unique it's a magical rage most of them can by copied by wizard spells as well).
sorcerers don't lose anything when other spell casters also have spell points. They can still use sorcerer points to use meta magic, which other spell casters cannot do.
@@ikarus6549 meta magic feat there is only 1 good meta magic is combat quickened spell and out of there's about 2, meta magic adept lets you have 2 yes only single or double use however I think 4 fireballs can handle most foes and that's just two uses. I do understand the benefits to meta magic but if I said everyone can use spells like a wizard optionally the wizard is still op but it just makes it way less special.
@@palehunter6711 Twinned is great too. And yes, with that feat a wizard can have a little of the power that a sorcerer has. Or he can multiclass into sorcerer. I could also get Eldritch Adept and have one warlock invocation, but invocations are still a mostly unique feature of the warlock. My point is that, to me, meta magic is more the unique sorcerer thing than converting between spell slots and points. I know that converting all your low-level slots to more of your highest-level slots is great, but I wouldn't agree that this is the only good feature a sorcerer has.
@@ikarus6549 I do get you point but we've now just ended with our opinions rather then fact, as I still disagree. I did forget twinned spell that is a good one.
No, using spell points in this case will increase the practical use of Hex (since your overcast increases time, not damage or something). The consequence is automatic buff for warlocks that use Hex, as they will have more resources. The problem isn't Warlock's slots, it's how people use them: you yourself exemplified "hex + armor of agathys and blasts..." Congratulations, you have a ranged barbarian!
I mean sure, but the pact magic feature functions as it does for a reason. You're not SUPPOSED to get a fifth level, a second level, and a first level. You're SUPPOSED to get your 2 fifth levels, and then have friends who aren't shitty and let you chill for *30 in game minutes* taking no time from playing the game itself unless people would like to, oh idk *roleplay* in their roleplaying game. Like yea it doesn't feel great to cast a 5th level shield, but that's how it's supposed to be
I'm pretty sure spell points directly mention pact slots and says they act completely the same so for some reason warlocks still run with spell slots in the spell point system
umm, doesnt it say in the PHB that warlocks always cast their spells at the highest level available.. in the example on page 107 PHB, talking about a 5h level char, "To cast the 1st-level spell witch bolt, you must spend one of those slots, and you cast it as a 3rd-level spell" so at 2:00 your example would change to 5 points for armor (level 3 spell) then 5 points for Hex (must be cast at 3rd level)
You're misinterpreting the example because of wording. If you read the actual rules part of the Spell Slots section right therea above he example, nowhere does it say you HAVE to upcast always. You only do it because as a warlock you only have higher level slots. To further the point, if you were a Warlock 5/Wizard 1, you could use one of those 1st-level wizard spell slots to cast Hex, a Warlock spell, because neither the Warlock spellcasting rules nor the multiclassing Pact Magic rules contradict this.
So you just give warlocks more slots and hence make them OP (as they also have invocations and other class features, not only cantrips)... not a fan just don't use hex in the first encounter of the day
Spell points don't work with pact magic. The point of a warlock is that all of your spells have to be cast at the same level. You have fewer spells per day but they are all cast ay the maximum level. Using spell points to enable more spells to be cast would undermine the entire point of the class, and that's why it says spellcasting and not pact magic, because pact magic and spellcasting are not the same feature. This is in the same vein as the coffelock strategy which is also impossible if you're following the rules.
While you are entirely correct about spell points not working for warlock (literally every base class gets mentioned in them except for Warlocks), Coffelock is entirely possible in RAW. Sorceror's spell point creation ability works with spell slots of any kind and warlock, despite not having the spell casting feature, does posses spell slots. On top of that pact magic spell slots are tracked differently from regular spell lost, so you can convert them and then short rest to get them back, and this won't affect any newly created sorcerer spell slots because they reset on long rest. Only RAW thing that possibly stops Coffelock is the sleep deprivation rule from Xanathar, which states that you need to make a con save every 24 hours you go without long resting or you take a point of exhaustion. Now I would never allow this start, but unless I missed something, it does work RAW
@@Nuggette your total sorcery points cannot exceed your sorcerer level. The premise is that you gain a large stockpile of sorcery points so you can turn them back into spell slots once you cast them, but you can't actually do that, since doing so would exceed your maximum count.
The only problem with this is that it doesn't work (spell points only work on classes with the "spellcasting" feature). If all you do as a warlock is cast hex and agathys, then you are playing the warlock wrong. Sure, this strategy works at low levels, but as you get to level 5, you get access to powerful concentration spells like Fear, Hunger of Hadar, Hypnotic Pattern and Summon spells. At 7th level, there is Banishment and Sickening Radiance. Casting these spells on turn 1, and then casting EB is the way to play a warlock optimally (not to mention the expanded spell options of each subclass, there are fenomenal options there too. The power of the warlock comes from the fact, that while full casters can cast the spells above twice or maybe thrice in a day, you can use them all day, as long as you shortrest between fights (if you don't have more slots, EB is always there). Spell points break the system completely, making warlocks OP af. Don't use it for your own sake.
It is pointless. Pact magic is what makes Warlock - unique. With spell points it is just shity wizard or sorcerer. Regaining all power on a short rest is also one of key features. Without it Warlock is kind of crap. But I agree with you about other halfcasters, like eldritch knight and arcane trickster.
RAW this doesn't work, as it specifically only applies to the classes it lists. They exclude warlock from this list, so it's not a variant that applies to warlocks specifically.
If your a warlock you should ALWAYS take arcana as your proficiency. With arcana proficiency you can create spell scrolls. Spend a little cash to rack up those level 1 spells (hex, shield, absorb elements etc). You should never use those spells with your limited pact magic.
But yea spell points are cool just wished it worked on DnDbeyond.
There's a homebrew feat on dndbeyond that gives you spell points. It's a bit wonky at first but you get used to it
I just use Avrae for this sort of stuff. Custom counters
As far as the RAW rules are concerned, Spellcasting and pact magic are different, so you cannot use this feature this way
Well like, in the video he already said "you will have to change the spell point regen to a short rest," so I think it's safe to assume that he already knows this doesn't work RAW
There is a reason it says „The Spell Points by Level table applies to bards, clerics, druids, sorcerers, and wizards.“ and not mentions warlocks. If you give warlocks this, you mess up the class fundamentally. Either you let them regain spell points at a short rest and make them OP or you don’t and they become substantially underpowered compared to other classes because that is their bread and butter.
How does it make them OP? I'm genuinely curious how you think this could break warlock?
Warlock: "I ran out of magic already."
Fighter, rogue, monk, ranger, paladin: "You don't need magic to be cool."
Cleric, druid: "There are better patrons in the pantheon lol"
Wizard, sorcerer: "Nice cantrip bro!"
well theyre not using the spell points by level table
Hence why you just do the math and give them points based on their slot levels deconstructed
Funniest part about warlocks is that they don't get more spell points than other classes either
It's cool that such optional rules exist, so both play styles are possible.
But i prefer classic warlock, because i don't see the class as pure spell caster. Pact magic brings an interesting problem to the table, which is fun to solve. Which means that pact slots are better used on really impactful spells, like synaptic static. Or, and this is because warlocks get many more spells known than spell slots, that they can be perfect situational casters solving niche or unique problems in-game. Spider climb, for example.
Plus warlocks get tons of spell like mileage out of invocations. Mask of many faces is just extremely good. Eyes of the runekeeper. Eldritch sight. Sculptor of flesh. The entire tome pact can rival wizard's ritual casting and then some.
But i like my warlocks angry, that's why I'm cool with armor of agathys, because it will last twice as long if warlock rages.
The problem is it really limits what spells you wanna pick up as a warlock. Expeditious Retreat, Hex, Illusory Script, Protection from Evil & Good, & Unseen Servant. All of these spells are made to be cast at just 1st level, but as a warlock you have to waist one of your precious resources to do fun things like have a servant fetch you things or create magic writing.
So now you have to decide if you do fun things with magic but make the party spend an hour needlessly resting, or save all your magic for combat and pigeon hole yourself to Armor of Agyths or damage spells.
@@MrDrewwills you could just pick up pact of the time and book of ancient secrets to cast both illusory script and unseen servant at will. or I don't know, pick up magic initiate or some shit. the whole point of the class is compromise. do you want to use a spell slot on roleplay? fine but don't whine about not having that slot when you need it.
@@FeverDM Those were just examples. Let's say i'm introducing someone to the game and they wanna play the warlock of an eldritch god. They come up with these cool and creative ideas for spells, but then I have to tell them. "Well you have to either sit around for 1 hour or get to cast 1 spell during combat." They're going to say that sucks, and how come everyone else gets to spend all of combat throwing around big cool spells.
If I tell this person "It's because those limitations make warlock unique" they're gonna tell me that's dumb and they'll be upset because their characters worse than everyone elses.
Then if I say "Well you can pick up magic initiate" they'll look it up and see that it's 1 first level spell 1 time per day and a cantrip. And to take that they'll have to make their stats worse from their other players.
This is a hobby people play to have fun, everything should be focused on making sure someone has fun. If a warlock wants to cast fun low level spells more often, is that going to make things less fun for them and the other players? If the answer is no then you should always do it.
Good point, it probably would suck for a new player in that situation. I'm just saying that warlock has a lot of options and its not just about throwing around a ton of leveled spells despite how fun that is
@@FeverDM Yeah, warlocks are super unique, but my point is switching to spell points doesn't change the maximum amount of fire power they can dish out. It really just comes down to letting them use lower-level spells more often. Which is another problem actually. You see all these cool spells on the warlock spell list that you really wanna use, but you constantly have to second guess yourself on if it's worth it. You can't just use a spell, it has to be this whole toss up of "can I convince the party it's worth it to have a short rest?" "does resting make sense in the story?" "If none of those are an option will I need those spell slots later?"
Honestly just getting rid of that feeling is a good enough reason for me.
Spell points variant rule actually makes sense, why is no one talking about this?
Personally when I play a warlock I often ignore hex. Below 5th level, in a combat that lasts ~5 rounds you get like 12 points worth of damage out of it, provided it's casted on the right target.
Hellish rebuke at 2nd level instantly does almost that damage. Armor of agathys at 2nd level also deals 10 damage as soon as someone hits you.
At 2nd level also, the darkness spell grants advantage on your attacks. This bonus often exceeds hex' damage output as well as protect you. Alternatively there's shadow blade, hold person or misty step where you might keep a spell slot for.
But at level 5, when the spell supposedly becomes twice as good, it becomes near useless. Summoning spells and hypnotic pattern are simply a way better use of your concentration, and thus spell slot.
If the investment isn't the same however, hex might become worth it again because you could use it on more occasions, or combine it with misty step as you mentioned before.
After third level, there's never a point where I would consider getting the hex over a spell like summon lesser demons, those buggers might not be friendly but you can actually cast them into the enemy backline and they will start fighting them. I don't need control I need chaos!
But if you take one of the other options, ignoring the additional benefits of having a summon by ignoring the fact that it takes an action not a bonus action, the shadowspawn deals 1d12+6 damage while the hex spell only gives 2d6. And at 7th level this difference only widens because now the single summons get multiattack from themselves. As weird as it may sound, the shadowspawn deals more damage then you yourself would do at level 7+. The spawn by itself can deal 2d12+14, while you (without hex) would do 2d10+10.
With hex you'd deal an average of 2d6+2d10+10=28, while the shadowspawn alone deals 27, ignoring your additional 21 points of damage from you (yes the hex spell only adds 1/3 of your base damage). I have ignored all the to hits, because they all use your spellcasting modifier for that which makes them a constant.
I like this idea and probably will allow it in my games for warlocks.
I played DnD in the 80's and 90's a lot. And we were using spell points a lot back then for all magic users. It gives a lot of flexibility to the casters and allows multiple uses of the same spells between rests. However, it is more difficult for the DM to track as there is a little more math. This is fine if you can trust your players. But it also allows a greater chance a cheater will sneak some by.
Cool variant rule. But I would still homebrew warlock to have a number of spells slots equal to its proficiency modifier, such as the RAW version won't feel left out.
This really helped me out, I've been running spell points for a while and was struggling a lot with how to make warlocks and specifically my Order of the Profane Soul player feel more like the other classes, especially because i also have an Arcane Trickster at my table. Thanks!
One of my DMs had a very creative solution to pact magic. He basically created a mystic arcanum esque feature. He called it "Arcane reminders"
As your Patron grants you higher boons, so too does he provide a bitter sweet reminder of how you were before their benevolence.
Each time your pact magic slots grow to a new level, you receive a spell slot of the previous one.
Unlike your pact magic, your Arcane spell slots are regained on a long rest.
This means you gain a bit more standing power for longer tuns between rests, and you also don't feel cheated for keeping a spell that doesn't upcast. So now sort of you have 1 spell slot for each level, except for 5th, which you'll have a bunch of short rest slots of
I usually allow Spell Point variants for sorcerers to seperate them from wizards more easily, but I'll consider allowing it for warlocks as well!
I think that the way warlock is currently makes choosing spells interesting. You can more easily swap out lower power spells for their higher power versions (such as Hold Person to Hold Monster, and Fireball to Synaptic Static).
You just turned warlock into regular half-caster
As far as I know, by RAW it doesn't work for warlocks. But you are free to do it if it works for your game.
The way I see it, if a player wants to play a Warlock, or any class for that matter, give the players the circumstances to allow the character to shine.
For example, I have a Goblin Warlock (Fiend Patron, Pact of the Chain). He's easily one of, if not the most favourite character I've played thus far. He has:
-Rod of the Pact Keeper
-A whistle which fills a similar role, while summoning random Goblinoid reinforcements
-Ring of Fire Elemental Command (infused with a Fire Elemental)
He has ample means to keep his Pact Magic reserves fresh, and the ring allows him to cast a few spells in a pinch when he's out of slots.
The result? Rarely do I feel caught short, and always I'm having fun. So props the my DM for finding the balance I guess.
Actually... this would likely bridge the gap between playtest warlock and current warlock nicely
And it would keep the Warlock’s magic feeling otherworldly and aberrant compared to other casters.
Invocations need to be expanded upon, particularly those that give free casts.
Seems weird, especially when there's the fact that Warlocks always cast at the highest spell level.
In fact this an homebrew rule that allow warlock to NOT cast at the highest spell level
i think thats the point though. spells like shield and misty step dont gain any benefits being upcasted but are very good and hard to say no to outright. I love warlocks how they are and find other ways around the limitations as invocations are absolutely amazing. grab a feat such as aberrant dragonmark/ magic initiate for shield and/or fey touched for misty step AND hex and youve solved the worse of those issues. i know feats arent free, but something like fey touched is so freakin good on a warlock
Yo, I actually loved this idea. This is the boost warlocks need
Well that's not playing it wrong... Its just that your DM isn changing the class using an optional rule
Reminds me of the 3.5 Psionics system, which used Psionic 'Power Points' to cast their 'spells' in much the same way.
I agree with Warlock being better if they had spell points, simply converting it this way is wonky and gets somewhat overpowered. The scaling of the spell points needs to be adapted to stay both fair and be a smooth increase in power level instead of a bumpy one
If you want a warlock to play like a wizard or sorceror, then just be a wizard or sorceror...
I like this it just seems to open up the spell options and doesn't limit them to only the upcasted spells and highest level spells. You don't get a ton of spell option by doing only 2. I have a fathomless level 7 and he would cast summon undead and armor of agathy. Going for a Davy Jones type.
I would say keep pact magic along with the magic pool.
But keep the magic pool only able to be recharged on a long rest.
It means that a warlock has a lot more at their disposal, but it won’t invalidate other casters who require long rests to regain spell slots.
D&D needed Mana Points like in videogame rpgs. Spells needed a mana cost and not a level. This would have helped as a substitute even for the number of uses of “magical” abilities, since instead they would have costed a certain amount of mp. Way less tracking of resources, and a better easier system for spellcasting
My interpretation of the wording, for the Spell Points is that it’s only applicable with SpellCasting. Which Warlocks don’t have!
This is sorcery points with extra steps. It wouldent fly on a warlock because there’s of the difference between pact magic and spellcasting. Simply take a level in another class that gives you first level spells. You can use both your pact magic and spell casting. Using those 1st level spell slots gained from taking a level in another class for things like shield. Then there’s options when creating a class like custom lineage, using the free feat you get to attain say fey touched. You get access to misty step, and your choice of 1st level spell for free from certain schools of magic that can be casted with the feat. So you get a free first level spell, a free 2nd level misty step, 3 first level spell slots you can use for your warlock spells and you still get your pact magic to use for your stronger warlock spells. Easy.
Excuse typos
OMG- finally someone's talking about SpellPoints!
The thing I loved about playing a warlock was the forced movement options you can get for your elder it h blast. It makes the cast feel like battlefield chess masters moving pieces around a board. It gives you great teamwork options with another caster’s AoE, it guarantees none of your allies are getting shut down by grapples, and it lets you take advantage of any environmental elements on a map. If there’s a battle on a bridge, near a pool of lava, on a boat, etc, the warlock quickly becomes the most useful member of the party as he hurls enemies into hazards. Warlocks also get some really cool utility spells like unseen servant (use a bonus action to have it run around the battlefield dropping caltrops and picking up anything someone drops), flock of familiars to give everybody advantage, and summon shadowspawn to throw around de buffs. It’s a similar playstyle to the sorcerer where you might not be using a ton of different spells, but you get to manipulate your spells into fitting whatever situation you’re in. The spell points method would definitely be cool and add versatility to the warlock toolbox, but it’s already a super versatile class as long as you’re creative and your dm is doing their job giving you chances to use your cool features.
At that point why not just give warlock a regular casting feature that recovers on a long rest? 🤨 make them kinda like sorcerers. They are gonna still be unique enough thanks to eldritch evocations and their patron's features.
Didn’t know about this until this video was recommended. Cool and based and subscribed
First character I played was a Tiefling Warlock. Played to 10th level. I had a lot at my disposal: many cantrips from Pact of Tome, my racial spells, a couple of magic items, my pact magic, and, most importantly, invocations.
Warlocks have limited casting because their Pact Boon and Invocations give them more flexibility than most other classes. I took the Invocation that let me cast Levitate at will and used it in combat on my enemies. Also had Disguise Self at will and tried to confuse them.
Honestly, the "optimized hexblade" style just feels like a waste of a Warlock sometimes, given the vast range the class could have with its 2 subclasses and long invocations list.
Yeah, some people seem to forget that their invocations can give them vastly more casting capabilities, granted at a limited cost in spell selection. That and given the fact short rests could be easy to come by, the warlock can have a ton of spells cast in a single day.
Wow somebody else who figured out that the stereotypical variant human Sentinel pole arm master adventurers League legal Hex blade that falls for all the trap spells that burn through the only resource you really have is a trap to begin with.
And yes invocations are essentially well they're class specific feats that you get a whole lot more of from a different list while still getting your feats.
If you were instead to make.
Verdan
Fighter 1/2
Arcana Domain 1
TomeLock 3+
you'll get
Proficiency in two physical saving throws advantage in two mental savings throws that you're going to be stacking high anyway for the most part and you will get at least six cantrips or more, a really awesome book that you can do a lot of awesome stuff with none the least of which is any and all rituals.
Oh and you'll never have to take a one or two on creation for recovering a hit die ever again.
You also get all weapons and all armor with this build you're also only a single level away from action surge.
Take that poorly designed warlock base line and flush it down the toilet.
I solved the problem by having the Warlocks at my table perform a 10-minute ritual to get their spell slots back. They can perform the ritual while the party is cleaning up after the battle, patching up wounds and looting. They can perform this ritual a number of times per day equal to half their Warlock level (rounded up) plus their Charisma bonus, so the feature gets better if they heavily invest in Warlock levels, but it's still fine even on a dip if they have a decent Charisma bonus.
This replaces the short rest recovery, but they can perform the ritual as part of a short rest. It also encourages the Warlock to use their Pact Magic for utility instead of just for combat.
My players like it because it lets the Warlock feel like a full caster with some limitations and it doesn't result in the Warlock whining for short rests all the time, which slows the game down.
I feel like a schmuck. I came up with this awhile ago to make casters more flexible and now you tell me it was in the book the whole time.
I might be dumb but warlocks cast at the highest spell slot possible so either way they still can only cast 2 spells. So in his example he cast the first spell bam 5/10 left then if he cast hex (has to cast at the highest lvl) which is 3rd lvl so he would still use 5 and thats it so still only 2 spells cast
Warlocks don't HAVE to upcast their spells. They are forced to do so by the fact that you only have high level spell slots to use. In your example, the warlock could cast say a Fireball for 5, and then if they cast Hex they could still do it just for 2 points, thus keeping 3 points in stock. They aren't forced to cast Hex as a 3rd level spell and use 5 points on it too.
Did a great job editing this video mate! Well done keep it up!
I don't play systems that arbitrarily limit how often you can do the things you built your character to do.
I use spell points for sorcerers and include their sorcery points into that mix for use as spells or metamagic. It really helps represent a sorcerer as an innate spellcaster with a well of power inside them.
I do precisely this as well. it gives them a little more fluidity in how they use their magic, and reduces the resource cost for converting spell slots into SP.
since sorcerer's already have a built-in mechanic for swapping spell slots around, this just effectively removes the resource cost associated with that. it's a nice little buff that doesn't affect balance as heavily as spell points would for someone like a wizard or druid or cleric
@@Wence42 I was originally concerned with how the newer subclasses would affect their power balance. Since they can cast specific spells at a much reduced rate. But after seeing it in action it really doesn't and I've been considering creating lists for adding that feature to the older subclasses too.
we mostly fixed warlock's feel by just sticking to the whole 6-8 encounters, by stretching it over a few days instead of 6-8 encounters for 1 day, and using the "gritty realism" ruleset, it really gives a bump to short rest resources, including pact slots
The gritty realism ruleset is a whole other beast, that I also love! But it definitely changes the whole feel of a game
This wouldn't change anything. Since warlocks are required to always cast a spell at the highest level they're able, converting your spell slots into points does nothing, you still just have to use that many points to upcast it appropriately.
This is an option that should be talked about more, a lot more.
Oh heck yeah! Finally someone else who considered using Spell Points on Warlock! I've been thinking that's a good idea for years now.
So the general reason to roll a Sorlock without the sorcerer part xD
I had not read this rule variant. This makes a lot of sense for these odd casting classes. The ability to convert spell slots like this sounds like a really fun way to play a lot of the casters.
Because it is not one.
It's just homebrew
It isn't officially approved for Warlocks
its homebrew the rule is for spell casters not pact magic and warlocks always cast at max level so its homebrewing rules for both pact magic and this variant rule other wise you would have the same problem on warlock just branded as spell points instead of spell slots
Back in the 80's and 90's we used a similar system of spell points in place of spell slots for magic users. It made a lot more sense to most of us and made the magic users more flexible. The downside to it is now you have a total of points to keep up with instead of slots. And as a DM that does make it harder to keep up with as instead of checking off slots used by a player, you have to do math now. If you have players you trust this is not a problem. But cheaters can more easily slip one or two by without anyone noticing, especially low level spells.
Normally I don't really like spell points, but I think this is a fine application of the variant rule. Base warlocks are lackluster, and this does give a lot more flexibility.
This only works assuming the base level of the spell. As a warlock, you're forced to upcast so you should be forced to spend the same 5 points for misty step, not the lessened value of 3
As much as I like the spell point system this gives more functionality than the Warlock was designed to have...for better or worse. It kind of touches on one of the reasons I don't care for Warlocks mechanically, in that they are very much a class defined by their restrictions rather than what their unique abilities, which is that they are "supposed" to lack the flexibility of other spellcasters to use spells at lower levels and have frankly far too few spell slots compared to other casters. Putting aside how balanced it is I tend to find them less fun than other spellcasters because of that.
That being said I would absolutely allow this at my table if a player wanted to use it, I don't think it breaks anything. Besides I kind of thought that the mystic's psionic system was a better designed system than the other classes spellcasting system, even if its power in lower levels was asymmetrical to the other classes.
Warlocks are defined by their invocations, which are far more important to the warlock than spells.
@@dmnemaine I'd argue that warlocks are supplemented by their invocations.
@@Harab_Serapel Then you're not getting it. Spellcasting (Pact Magic) is the supplemental class feature. Invocations are a warlock's bread and butter.
The mystic's abilities ape early editions pre-codification of psionics. It's pretty broken so I understand how your assessment of spell points with Pact magic is just as flawed.
@@MorinehtarTheBlueWell you fell for my trap and gave me a chance to talk about my favorite irrelevant dead class so I'm going to take it.
I'm not going to lie, I have no idea what point you are trying to make in your first sentence.
As for the overall sentiment though I think I should probably clarify that my point here was never that mystics weren't broken. Their folly was that they were too late to the game, and so they were given a ton of spell like abilities that didn't count as spells which made for hellish cross class (see mystic/Barb/Druid), didn't play with counter play measures like counterspell and dispel magic, they don't have any need for any components, and they have a fair amount of abilities that were begging for a nerf...like being able to maintain concentration on multiple abilities at once. As I said, there was some asymmetry between them and the other classes.
That being said none of that is what I was referring to when I said that psionics were better designed than spells. I was specifically referring to disciplines being a more organic and interesting way of learning abilities compared to the grab bag of spell. Disciplines are groups of abilities that you pick at certain levels that all follow a theme. The abilities they give you all cost varying amounts of psi points, and so as you progress you naturally acquire more abilities based off your increasing psi limit. This sort of interplay meant that you actually felt like you were getting better at your abilities as you leveled up, instead of just picking sporadic spells. Now you might disagree with me on that concept or argue that I could do something similar with spells (which you can do SOME of the time depending on what themes you want to go with) but I found it to be far more interesting than the 1-9 spell slot system with various classes getting access to hopelessly disparate spell lists and access to equally disparate spells.
Also why is my view on Warlocks with points flawed?
"You're playing Warlock wrong! You should have your DM buff them and completely negate the main balancing weakness of the class."
The way you suggest doesn't work that way. Warlocks always cast spells at the highest level they can cast. Even in the DMG where the spell point variant is says it doesn't include warlocks. Because even if they use spell points it doesn't change how many times they can cast a spell. Warlocks cannot choose to cast at a lower level. That's a part of what separates Pact Magic from normal spellcasting. In the example you did, by the rules, you would cast Armor of Agathys for 5 points and then Hex for 5 points. That is because they are always cast at the highest level, in this case, 3rd level.
You are misinterpreting how the Spell Slots section of Pact Magic works from the example.
For example, when you are 5th level, you have two 3rd-level spell slots. To cast the 1st-level spell witch bolt, you must spend one of those slots, and you cast it as a 3rd-level spell.
It says "you MUST use these spell slots" (because they are the only ones you have as per Pact Magic alone) and "you cast it as a 3rd-level spell" (because you are using as a 3rd-level spell slot to cast the Witch Bolt, so of course it would upcast). HOWEVER, if you read the ACTUAL rule part that is not the example:
The Warlock table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your warlock spells of 1st through 5th level. The table also shows what the level of those slots is; all of your spell slots are the same level. To cast one of your warlock spells of 1st level or higher, you must expend a spell slot. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a short or long rest.
This piece of text never states "you must always cast your Warlock spells at their highest level". Moreover, if you gain spell slots from another source, you can cast your Warlock spells using those slots at a level that is not the max your pact magic can achieve.
Spell points does NOT work officially for Warlock. This is a misleading video as you do not lay this out. WARLOCKS DO NOT HAVE THE SPELLCASTING FEATURE!
They have the PACT MAGIC feature. The spell points can only officially apply to non-warlock casters. Its not an optional rule for warlocks.
The issue everyone has, is that they want to play any other casting class and reflavor their relationship with their power origin to that more like a patron and warlock. That is, if you just want the idea of a sugardaddy giving you magic.
Warlocks are designed very much to be a roleplaying class. The relationship with their patron and their overall themes and story are forefront and make physical changes to them. Which is why theyre given a bunch of options to choose from to specialize in like the battlemaster FIGHTER is. The problem is people dont understand how to play warlocks. Yall wanna put the class in boxes that it was never intended to fit in. Pick on-theme spells and more importantly THINK VERY CAREFULLY ABOUT YOUR PLAYSTYLE AND WHAT INVOCATIONS TO PICK TO BOOST THAT OVER TIME!
The Warlock is honestly fine how it is. People just need to realize that they actually just wanna play a sorcerer or paladin, or they just want eldritch blast, which case I would ask your dm if they allow first level feats, or take a feat at 4th for magic initiate and take Eldritch Blast. You can even take Eldritch Invocation feats to get some of those. If you just want the cantrip and a little flavor but wanna be a tank or something be a fighter and put your feats into warlock flavored magic initiate and eldritch invocations.
Just a more complicated way of giving them Sorcery points.
Honestly, I never liked how they did Warlocks.
They should have been Mystic Arcanums all the way down.
No spell slots at all.
I understand why Gary Gygax despised spell point systems. You can describe how the entire magic system works in D&D (B/X, BECMI) and AD&D without mentioning any rules, and that adds a lot to the flavor of the game. But the moment you start talking about points it's as if all the magic vanishes. It might work well, from a game design standpoint, but I can't help but feel like something special is lost in the process. It becomes less about fantasy and more about managing game mechanics. At least that's how I feel.
Another person who thinks Warlocks should be Sorcerers. Invocations and Pact Features are what make the Warlock special, not the amount of spells they can cast. If combat happens and my Celestial Warlock dropping Flaming Sphere on an enemy, then using Eldritch Blast to push the enemy into the sphere over and over doesn't cause enough damage to be useful, then that is a battle that should be run from. On that note, if I'm being pursued by something and I keep throwing up a perfect illusion to disguise myself the moment I pull a corner, they fly right by me. I walk back around the opposite way, changing my illusion again and disappear into a crowd without ever touching my spell slots. Getting peppered by arrows? How about using Silent Image to throw up cover that, yes the arrows can go through, but hides where you are to them. Then, drop the cover, Blast 2 or 3 of them and run for real cover. Again. Never touched a spell slot and just did anywhere from 2 to 20 (or 7 to 34 with Agonizing Blast) while being pretty safe.
Warlocks are characters that have a magical gimmick granted to them, not true spellcasting. Magics that compliment a character, turning an average person into something that can enforce his and his patron's will, often at a cost. Think of them that way.
There is a mana system to. You add you spell slots x level. That's your mana. Each mana is a slot so level 3 spells cost 3 mana, simple. The only exception is 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th level spells. You can only cast 6th and 7th lev spells twice per day and 8th and 9th once.
The system grants you good versatility and a simple way to keep track of how much juice you have left. Warlocks get 20 mana max but recharge on a short rest. Wizards and the like get 90 / long rest. A lock does not need to cast at max but will still have to rest 5 times before beating the wizards slots.
So using spell points ignore the whole thing of "casting at max level spell slot available", defeating the unique thing about warlock's "spellcasting"
I'm not saying it's wrong, and I'm sure it will be fun, but I personally don't like it, and I don't know if I would allow it as a DM
It feels like saying that ranger's fighting style choices are too few, and allowing him to choose between all of them (including something that thematically doesn't fit with the concept of a standard ranger)
It could be arranged to fit certain ideas, but this shouldn't be standard
I think the warlock is fine as is. No one is forcing you to play eldritch blaster. There are so many other customization options. The warlock known spells vs spell slots are set up to make the class be unique and have to get rid of lower level spells that aren't worth the higher level spell slot. For as much as people in this game community vehemently defend creativity and flexibility available for a table top rpg instead of a video game, we have a vocal minority complaining they only see warlock as an eldritch blaster. All warlocks just take hex and eldritch blast and agonizing blast and that's what you do. Ignore everything else. Then whine.
The invocations are so cool. A pact of the chain voice of the chain master familiar is a ton of spells baked in. It acts as a permanent unseen servant or mage hand. It scouts better than a ranger or rogue or wizard familiar. It can attack. It can use your voice better than minor illusion. It is arcane eye. It is knock (resummon it within 30 feet on the other side of the door). It can intelligently feed you a potion when you go down while invisible. It counts as beast bond, beast sense, animal messenger, message, sending. The wizard familiars don't have hands, are stuck within 100 feet and have int scores 3 and lower and are all beasts. If your DM doesn't understand that difference don't play pact of the chain. Your party can avoid ambushes and know how to set up before a fight.
However, your DM can be an asshole and hamper all this because they don't get it and it gets in the way of their railroad.
I love the spell points variant but haven't tried it for Warlock.
The spell point variant rule is for classes with the spellcasting feature, but check with each DM. If you and your DM decide to overcome the limitations of the Warlock's Pact Magic then it could be a lot of fun.
But instead of converting spell slots into spell points just use the charts provided. At 5th level you get 27 spell points and can now cast at will as this levels the playing field between the spellcasting and pact magic features.
Instead of only casting 2 spells each short rest, your warlock can cast as many spells as they have spell points for.
This is really cool! I'll try and implement something like this the next time one of my players wants to be a Warlock!
I personally use a halfway system - Spontaneous casters like Sorcerer and Bard use a variant of spell points; Prepared casters like Wizard and Cleric use a variant of the existing spell slot system, and Warlock gets a mixture of both, remaining the only class whose resources can recharge on a short rest.
Making one of the most flavorful classes in the game also be one of the least mechanically-interesting classes to play bothers me immensely.
if you are gonna use THAT rule...just play a fucking sorcerer, then you get meta magic on top of your spell point system, the Sorcerer is already built around. and warlocks are supposed to always be upcasting their 2 spell slots to max level, thats part of how they differentiate between other arcane caster classes. and yes, some spells have the exact same effect regardless of what level it is upcast too. its a limiting factor for the class for a reason. again to create difference between a wizard or bard or sorcerer, or hell even arcane trickers and other arcane sublcass casters. this is just a "Diet Coke" version of a sorcerer.
"Most campaigns stop after level 12 or 13"
My Players Level 17 wizard: "I cast wish. I wish this campain would never end"
Not really.
"The Warlock table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your warlock spells of 1st through 5th level. The table also shows what the level of those slots is; all of your spell slots are the same level. To cast one of your warlock spells of 1st level or higher, you must expend a spell slot. You regain all expended Pact Magic spell slots when you finish a short or long rest." So you have to expend one of two spell slots. If u inerpret this this to spell points, then u will have to expend 5 spell slots on each of ur casts. So yeah, no free cookies 4 u.
this increases the power of warlocks too much. warlocks are not meant to have the ability to cast that many spells. the truth of the matter is that agonizing blast gives the warlock consistent damage output on par with martial characters.
I do not recommend this change. but of course, your table = your rules.
Your videos are awesome! I was just thinking about using the variant rule for my next game. I look forward for more videos like this.
How does this let Warlocks use fewer spell points? Warlocks automatically cast at the highest level slot they have, no matter the spell.
Not to sound negative but if it's your homebrew you should say that at the beginning of the video and express this isn't RAW things like this will confuse new players trying to learn
Love it!
If I wasn't using the Dungeon Coach-esque 10 min short rest rules, I wold totes do this for my players!
Whenever I hear pact Magic I think of the "Tomb of Magic" for dnd 3.5.
They had a Class called the "Binder" which could choose one (later more) of several Vestiges (powerful but banished Creatures, basically lost Gods) and bind them to themselves, giving them certain Powers and Limitations during that time. I love this Class and there are convertions to 5e from it.
For me at least this is much more exciting than the normal Warlock Abilities in 5e. You could create powerful combos of Vestiges, there were cool Prestigeclasses (similar to subclasses) and magic Items for them. Easily the most interesting Class out of the 3 in the Book.
I loved that book too, my favourite was the shadowcaster. With their spell like abilities that eventually progressed so antimagic wouldn't be a problem for them. Had great fun with that character combining a blink effect and their shadow arrow to teleport around battle and poke things at range.
@@QCreyton I loved the flavor and the progression from the Shadowcaster. Sadly the spells were rather uninspired. Mostly just reflavored known spells.
And Truename Magic was the coolest concept but the Math was just off...
Such a cool varient feature, I wish D&DB's sheets had a mechanic that supported Spell Points
They don't because it isn't a variant feature. It's homebrew this guy is passing off as official for some reason.
@@Michael-bn1oi DMG pages 288-289, under "Chapter 9: Dungeon Master's Workshop - Creating new character options"
Except that in the DMG warlocks are excluded from using the spellpoint system..
it honestly would make warlock less battle centered and open the up the rp doors a bit I don't have comprehend language because it take one of my 2 slot and it's such a low level spell
Incorrect. Warlocks always cast the spell at the highest level. So a 5th level Warlock is always casting those spells at third level therefore costing 5 spell points per spell cast. so two.
Okay… so… I get this… but this is basically giving the warlock regular spell casting again with normal spell slots. Because now spells cost points, but like higher level slots are most costly.
In my honesty opinion I think they should get their 3rd slot MUCH sooner. Probably level 6 or something. And at level 20 they end off with just one more slot than normal. I’d probably just make it tired to proficiency bonus for how many pact slots they have. But that could make them grow too fast
But isn't that just a sorcerer then?
Isn't the whole thing about warlocks that makes them unique the fact that they are forced to cast their spells at max level all the time?
sure if you totally ignore that warlocks ALWAYS cast at their highest level spell slot possible...
this is standard when I'm running lol... But the warlocks have never utilised it unfortunately
I tend to treat Warlock spell caster as selectable class features that act like spells rather than as spells, so it’s never been a problem for me. Maybe the key to Warlocks is to treat their pact magic like arcanum or invocations instead of spells?
*Eldritch Invocations*
This is the reason why I LOVE warlocks...
So your solution to an already busted class is to give it as many spell points as full casters? No, I think I’ll pass.
isn't this just sorcerer points? like using this rule just get rid of one of the only good things about sorcerers? like they have a few more uses but it's meant to be unique to them, if just given to every caster they lose one of their only upsides. sorcerers are already quite bad, like for anything besides role play I'd never play any sorcerer if I was aloud to pick 1 any wizard subclasses.
this comment isn't against the video you just doing content just a statement against it from a guy who want sorcerers to have something more unique to them. (their special form doesn't count as unique it's a magical rage most of them can by copied by wizard spells as well).
sorcerers don't lose anything when other spell casters also have spell points. They can still use sorcerer points to use meta magic, which other spell casters cannot do.
@@ikarus6549 meta magic feat there is only 1 good meta magic is combat quickened spell and out of there's about 2, meta magic adept lets you have 2 yes only single or double use however I think 4 fireballs can handle most foes and that's just two uses.
I do understand the benefits to meta magic but if I said everyone can use spells like a wizard optionally the wizard is still op but it just makes it way less special.
@@palehunter6711 Twinned is great too.
And yes, with that feat a wizard can have a little of the power that a sorcerer has. Or he can multiclass into sorcerer.
I could also get Eldritch Adept and have one warlock invocation, but invocations are still a mostly unique feature of the warlock.
My point is that, to me, meta magic is more the unique sorcerer thing than converting between spell slots and points.
I know that converting all your low-level slots to more of your highest-level slots is great, but I wouldn't agree that this is the only good feature a sorcerer has.
@@ikarus6549 I do get you point but we've now just ended with our opinions rather then fact, as I still disagree. I did forget twinned spell that is a good one.
wouldn't it just be better to create a sorlock and use their sorcery points for basically unlimited spell slots?
No, using spell points in this case will increase the practical use of Hex (since your overcast increases time, not damage or something). The consequence is automatic buff for warlocks that use Hex, as they will have more resources.
The problem isn't Warlock's slots, it's how people use them: you yourself exemplified "hex + armor of agathys and blasts..." Congratulations, you have a ranged barbarian!
I mean sure, but the pact magic feature functions as it does for a reason. You're not SUPPOSED to get a fifth level, a second level, and a first level. You're SUPPOSED to get your 2 fifth levels, and then have friends who aren't shitty and let you chill for *30 in game minutes* taking no time from playing the game itself unless people would like to, oh idk *roleplay* in their roleplaying game. Like yea it doesn't feel great to cast a 5th level shield, but that's how it's supposed to be
The real solution is multiclassing into sorcerer and learning how to brew a lot of very strong coffee
I'm pretty sure spell points directly mention pact slots and says they act completely the same so for some reason warlocks still run with spell slots in the spell point system
My table just made Warlocks into normal full casters.
umm, doesnt it say in the PHB that warlocks always cast their spells at the highest level available..
in the example on page 107 PHB, talking about a 5h level char, "To cast the 1st-level spell witch bolt, you must spend one of those slots, and you cast it as a 3rd-level spell"
so at 2:00 your example would change to 5 points for armor (level 3 spell) then 5 points for Hex (must be cast at 3rd level)
You're misinterpreting the example because of wording. If you read the actual rules part of the Spell Slots section right therea above he example, nowhere does it say you HAVE to upcast always. You only do it because as a warlock you only have higher level slots.
To further the point, if you were a Warlock 5/Wizard 1, you could use one of those 1st-level wizard spell slots to cast Hex, a Warlock spell, because neither the Warlock spellcasting rules nor the multiclassing Pact Magic rules contradict this.
So you just give warlocks more slots and hence make them OP (as they also have invocations and other class features, not only cantrips)... not a fan
just don't use hex in the first encounter of the day
TL;DW fix Warlocks by not playing Warlocks.
Spell points don't work with pact magic. The point of a warlock is that all of your spells have to be cast at the same level. You have fewer spells per day but they are all cast ay the maximum level. Using spell points to enable more spells to be cast would undermine the entire point of the class, and that's why it says spellcasting and not pact magic, because pact magic and spellcasting are not the same feature.
This is in the same vein as the coffelock strategy which is also impossible if you're following the rules.
While you are entirely correct about spell points not working for warlock (literally every base class gets mentioned in them except for Warlocks), Coffelock is entirely possible in RAW. Sorceror's spell point creation ability works with spell slots of any kind and warlock, despite not having the spell casting feature, does posses spell slots. On top of that pact magic spell slots are tracked differently from regular spell lost, so you can convert them and then short rest to get them back, and this won't affect any newly created sorcerer spell slots because they reset on long rest. Only RAW thing that possibly stops Coffelock is the sleep deprivation rule from Xanathar, which states that you need to make a con save every 24 hours you go without long resting or you take a point of exhaustion. Now I would never allow this start, but unless I missed something, it does work RAW
@@Nuggette your total sorcery points cannot exceed your sorcerer level. The premise is that you gain a large stockpile of sorcery points so you can turn them back into spell slots once you cast them, but you can't actually do that, since doing so would exceed your maximum count.
The only problem with this is that it doesn't work (spell points only work on classes with the "spellcasting" feature). If all you do as a warlock is cast hex and agathys, then you are playing the warlock wrong. Sure, this strategy works at low levels, but as you get to level 5, you get access to powerful concentration spells like Fear, Hunger of Hadar, Hypnotic Pattern and Summon spells. At 7th level, there is Banishment and Sickening Radiance. Casting these spells on turn 1, and then casting EB is the way to play a warlock optimally (not to mention the expanded spell options of each subclass, there are fenomenal options there too.
The power of the warlock comes from the fact, that while full casters can cast the spells above twice or maybe thrice in a day, you can use them all day, as long as you shortrest between fights (if you don't have more slots, EB is always there).
Spell points break the system completely, making warlocks OP af. Don't use it for your own sake.
of course your a hexblade....saw that coming.
I do like spell points I just totally forget them when I ran it
The title made me apprehensive, but the argument is more than solid.
i literally would call my dm if i didnt already and knew hes with his grandma
Ooor, just multiclass into bard and be a beast Bardlock.
It is pointless. Pact magic is what makes Warlock - unique. With spell points it is just shity wizard or sorcerer. Regaining all power on a short rest is also one of key features. Without it Warlock is kind of crap. But I agree with you about other halfcasters, like eldritch knight and arcane trickster.
Wait, you can just erase marker from paper like that?
RAW this doesn't work, as it specifically only applies to the classes it lists. They exclude warlock from this list, so it's not a variant that applies to warlocks specifically.