Mistaken Identity, Panther 2 Revisited | Cursed by Design
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- Опубликовано: 5 фев 2025
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In my previous video on this topic I later found that mistakes had been made that had to be corrected. In this video I explain the origin of this mistake which has plagued the history of the Panther 2 and caused my error in the first video.
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ok
thanks for making a video to make the info panther II video accurate
You advertising a scammy, spineless, mobile game, pretending it is a simulation instead of stealing money from people....you lost ALL OF YOUR CREDIBILITY THERE!
@@nagykiss6020 give him a break
@@nagykiss6020 youtubers need money, sponsers are super important. You will never understand
A sign of a true historian! “New, reliable info become available? I should check my old hypotheses on the subject. Oh, I’ve made errors! Acknowledge and correct them!”
Excellent work Cone of Arc!
Honesly so true. God bless people that admit their mistakes.
Yes
The panther is such an asthetically pleasing tank I'm not disappointed to see the Panther 2 again
Yes, and especially the Schmalturm turret :D
No, its not
@@garlkurzer well that's just like your opinion man 😂
@@derrickstorm6976 You know, she's pretty tight 🤣 alright
@@garlkurzer well good luck standing alone on that opinion lol
ConeOfArk:"War path is very historically accurate"
Me: They just labeled Midway in the Atlantic ocean...
The PFP makes it even funnier
So on warpath, the “he100” in the game is actually the HE-112. So accuracy is meh
and then tiger p and tiger 1 have the same name
You’re talking about accuracy in Warpath, really?
I think that warpath is kinda inaccurate.
*calls ju 87 g panzerknacker without landing gear FW190*
Warpath is ridiculously inaccurate at some parts
ConeOfArc: Panther 2 mistakes.
Spookston: The panther 2 problem.
IronArmenian: THICC PANTHER 88
Phlydaily: *Cursed Image of Panther2*
ConeOfArc: *makes factual video on the Panther II*
Spookston: "The Panther II is overpowered." *proceeds to curb stomp everyone in a full downtier*
Iron: *Big Tiddy Baron waifu*
Phly: *good gameplay and memes*
@@TR33ZY_CRTM phly cringe
Bo time gaming , i found a pretty good youtuber i wouldn't use his videos to train to play better tho its better to learn yourself the hard way.
@@NoSaysJoyou sound like a spookston stan
@@maplearrow1842Spookston literally says that he doesn't know why anyone hates on Phly, the dude basically just minds his own business. People are just stupid
Warpath is accurate,
SHOWS MIDWAY IN THE ATLANTIC
Was coming here for that, it took me a moment “wait a gosh darn minute-“
World war II with ICBM and helicopter
sponsors usually demand small channels read their cringy scripts word for word
In game descriptions say that the KV-2 didn't use its gun and instead ran over enemy tanks lmao
Warpath: it is accurate
Also warpath: proceeds to have stuff that came after ww2
"Today's sponsor has taken historical accuracy very seriously"
*shows the Midway Islands in the middle of the Atlantic*
well, where would you put them?
@@BlackMasterRoshi the Great Lakes
@@BlackMasterRoshi in the middle of the pacific
@@BlackMasterRoshi somewhere along the Mississippi River
They didn't say geographical accuracy tho
1:12 Yeah... It takes it very seriously by calling a BT-7 "medium tank"...
And adding a mouse (maus) v2
Nice
It looks like the repeat of the WoT vs. WT historical accuracy wars
@@alphaplayzz1381 thats actually accurate because the two prototype Maus tanks are referred to a v1 and v2. V2 was the one completed with the turret and V1 was a hull with a turret weight.
I already sent some information to hopefully correct one similar issue with a label ingame and have offered to help make some corrections if they want me to.
@@ConeOfArc they have three versions of the maus, prototype, V1, V2. One of those has to be wrong
Warpath historical accuracy
*US medium tank: Panzer IV*
*Dive bomber: P-40E*
One of their ads shows a BF-109 dropping a bomb that carried soldiers being intercepted by JU-87 Stukas…because yes
@@Alpha_627 yo wtf
@@edwardkenway148 exactly, and if I remember correctly the Richelieu class battleships were the size of landing ships in length, and quite possibly were the landing ships
@@Alpha_627 bruh
Haha
The wording of the 1999 edition of Spielberger's book is hilarious.
The word "Abarten" is can be translated more accurately as "abominations" and less as "Variants".
The german word for variants is "Varianten".
Like, technically the translation is fine, but "Abart" or "abartig" is more commonly used to express disgust.
So the title of the book is more like "The Panther tank and its abominations", made me chuckle.
"Variante" comes from Latin. "Abart" is the (correct) old German word. You just don't hear it anymore in that context.
@@ottovonbismarck2443 Yeah it's just amazing how language changes in just 80 years.
I'd not be surprised if some people in some town in Germany still use the word "Abart" like that but I've literally never heard it being used that way my whole life (I'm in my 30s now).
Or maybe it's still used in some scientific literature, just not colloquially.
@@TheLumberjack1987 I myself can't remember to ever have used the word in the last 30 years, and I'm 50 and German.
@@ottovonbismarck2443 abart in italian sounds like "aborto" (abortion/aborted child)
I think that "the panther and its aborted children" would be a fine name
@@alfredorotondo Ciao ! The adjective in German means "pervert", which makes it "Panther and the Perverts"
Sounds like a Punk Rock band ... 🤣
I wonder if you would make cursed by design on post war prototype french tanks like the AMX 50
That would be cool
Yes!
What about the AMX ELC bis?
@@thefishinggamekeeper5713 i think it's a WG fake. Only ELC-AMX tank existed, designed by the Bruno-Valette (idk if i write it correct) Company
@@mozeskertesz6398 i think ELC bis was produced
possible topics: e-series, amx-50 program, ELC program, t29+t30+t34, Chrysler K, Tiger ii variants, hwk series, vk 30 series, t-44 development, t-34 prototypes, is/t-10, AE Phases designs, T110 series, German 1945 proposals (rear transmission, 75mm l/100,...etc), M7 medium tank debacle, M-26 Pershing development history (T20 series), Type 61/74 development.
Yes please
I strongly disagree with Warpath as a sponsor. But I understand that people need to eat and if you have to shill a shitty mobile game, then so be it.
He's eating pretty well, it's at least a grand per sponsor for him.
@@tipi5586 Ok. How often are his videos? Once a week? A grand a week isn't a huge amount. Especially when you consider rent and electricity and water and software licenses.
Just skip the part. You won’t see any more warpath crap, and Coneofarc still can earn some money for his stuff
@@Kyle-gw6qp He does have a job although he said RUclips gives him more money at this point.
Warpath is actually a pretty good game. I've played it since the beta and it just keeps getting better.
It was a mistake, you don't need to apologise.
i like how in the intro now for ALL of these it says "Ancient Designs" and yet the earliest we've gone is the early 1920s.
Where's my Da Vinci tank, Cone??
Speaking of historical accuracy *warpath* lmfao
Played it for a week its shit
@@jesusdeputy931 shocking
"Warpath is accurately historical"
*shows a ww2 soldier holding a M16A4 in probably 1940*
Dont forget that they put midway in the atlantic
@@FOlklorens how do you mess that up
@@Osprey5435 Wdym?
@@FOlklorens i was wondering how they managed to place midway in the Atlantic
@@Osprey5435 Okay
1:24 ah yes, the famous Midway atoll situated in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean
12:17 "the tale/tail of the panther II" ... shows rear of panther. I see what you did there ...
Unintentional tbh
@@ConeOfArc Ass you said
@@ConeOfArc lies?!??!?!?
Cone:please forgive me for this great sin I have committed
Me: dude this all happend 80 years ago you are good
to 4:42: why inexcusable? the human mind is bound to make mistakes and you´re here to correct this. dont worry about it and keep staying tall^^
SERIOUSLY?! Thank you for your exceptional series and thank you for your amazing efforts in being as accurate as HUMANLY POSSIBLE!! Keep up your amazing work!!!
Very diligent and professional. Great series this.
Wdym inexcusable, it was an honest mistake, if we are to blame anyone then it would be the author of the book but he made an honest mistake too. Its not your fault at all.
You are a wonderful documentary creator on topics I love! Anything to do with tanks fascinates me! Thank you for all you do with your channel!
Thanks for watching!
@ConeOfArc Bravo, for your humility, showing your integrity, but also how you investigated and explained it all out, so others do not repeat the mistake. Bravo, you are a true historian in my opinioin.
Here’s a dumb joke:
The Germans didn’t have too many panthers and tigers in the field because the artists were too busy making modern art
this joke has 2 meanings
1. Hitler being rejected from art school
2. German designers more focused on designing dumb prototypes
@@Kalashnikov413 the first one you suggested makes no sense in that context. Punchline is the second (I'm assuming)
Yea, designers build the tanks
If the Panther's drivetrain would be designed to withstand 50 tons and it would have allsteel wheels, it would be a very good tank, and possibly the Pz. IV would get its improvements.
@@Kalashnikov413 Modern because bunkers and ruins.
A bit of trivia about the vehicle: While at the Patton Museum the Panther-II, still in running order, took part in 4th of July parade at Fort Knox every year up until the 1980s.
Everyone makes mistakes; some of which have serious consequences. What everyone doesn't do is man-up to it like you did. I live in Illinois where no one accepts responsibility for anything. Its very refreshing. Thank You.
Ahhh world war two, when all the cigarettes were filterless and all the ammo was corrosive
someone willing to acknowledge a mistake and explain logically how it was made is far more trustworthy then someone never acknowledging a mistake.
Well done. I appreciate the update and correction.
Thank you I did a similar write up years ago on the War Thunder forum and appreciate that you were able to not only admit you made the mistake but to correct it. I can say with confidence that we all very much appreciate that about you and your channel! Keep up the good work.
That footage from 10:40 is from an armor museum in Massachusetts! I live 30 minutes away from there and have visited. I never really grasped the true size of the Panther and the T-34-85 before seeing them in person.
Awesome Doco.
Admitting you got something wrong greatly increases your credibility, unfortunately to many people seem to double down or just ignore their mistakes in the hope people will eventually forget about it.
Uh... in your Warpath ad, it showed midway island in the MIDDLE OF THE ATLANTIC
IT'S LITERALLY GOOGLEABLE
yeah i thought i was tripping balls when i saw that
I thought i smoked something weird
Real respect for people who are willing to admit and correct mistakes
Soo... That Mean Panther 2 Project just making a New Hull?
not making new hull, but improved it
originally just thiccer panther, later beacame standardised panther
I would love to see Cone go over all the historical inaccuracy in Warpath.
You have so much passion for tanks that you will correct a minor mistake in a video and then take full blame for it. You are great Cone and please keep up the good work.
Excellent work. A sign of a true historian is admitting when they make mistakes and correcting them
Bob Semple Tank is da best do a rereview of it
Based Bob Semple
@@AlreadyTakenTag Chad Bob Semple Tank
Every joke there is about Bob (all 1) has been made ad nauseum already.
@ConeOfArc The Pershing tank has a very complicated history that is somewhat similar to the panther tank with it’s production different variant.
From talking with Director for the U.S. army armor & Calvary collection I learned that he has access to a lot of source material about its development during the second world war.
All of your mistakes are forgiven bro
One of the biographies that I have read (and I am pretty sure that it is Panzer Battles by Mellenthin) states that the Panther initially came out with an 88mm gun, but was soon changed to a 75mm. I have not seen this in any other book though.
Willingness to correct your mistakes shows that you a person of integrity, a respectful trait
I see what you did there, Cone.
An ‘Enigma’ of a tank.
Nice.
Great vid ConeofArc, thanks for the in-depth info on the panther 2.
Respect for making this video! We all make misstakes and owning up to them is important! After all, it's from our mistakes we learn. You sir, have proven yourself to be a very serious content maker. Thank you for what you do! Cheers from Sweden!
1:23. Why the hell is Midway in the middle of the Atlantic?
I love your voice,it makes me sleepy and i have problems getting sleepy
It would be cool to see maybe a smaller scale mockup being made of the actual turret intended for the Panther II to be displayed with it.
Also no need to go so far with the apologies for making an easily understandable mistake. Majority of us are probably happy so long as you post a correction .
Man I love that intro, I've said it before but it really sets the tone
Off topic moment. I made an amazing Hetzer in Sprocket today. I freaking amazed myself with it.
It's an easy build doe.
Genuinely apologising and admiting to a mistake made. Cone is truly ahead of their time as a RUclipsr.
ConeofArc: "warpath is so good and accurate"
Meanwhile me, a Warpath player who plays the game: ARE YOU SURE ABOUT THAT?
You have my respect, for making a video to correct your mistake. It can be hard for people to admit that you were wrong/incorrect, even though your mistake would be considered mild I would say, AND it was because someone else made a mistake, LEADING YOU to make a mistake.
PS: also if would say that ConeOfArc is a little hard on himself for making this mistake.
I visited the Patton museum in 2000 as part of a trip from the UK for the F1 race at the Indy Speedway. I saw the Panther II. I'd actually gone down to Kentucky to see a museum at Fort Knox and saw the Patton museum and went there instead.
I saw one at the Patton Museum in Fort Knox. That was long ago and I don't know if it is still on display.
It’s no longer at Fort Knox, it’s with the rest of the US armor collection in Fort Benning which isn’t open to the public yet.
@@leops1984 currently no plans to reopen up most of that ordinance; if you want to see it you’ll have to be in the Army and have an MOS clearance of 89, 91 or 94 (pertaining to specialities in munitions, vehicle repair and radar repair) as a majority of it has been moved to Ft. Lee in southern Virginia, and is now meant to educate recruits in armored history and heritage. And as previous commenter said some of it (like the Panther) was moved to Georgia, still out of the public’s eyes.
Not all tanks were built to kill, the cute little kuegleblitz was built to love.
8:08 i believe it would of had this turret if the Panther II was fully built prototype. Cause the overall design makes sense unlike the other designs with the 8.8 KwK L/71 which seem like the loader could have challenges loading the long shells in a cramped crew compartment.
I wish I could find the old scource! The Allies found a a Panther turret at the Krupp testing range with the 88mm L71 fitted. Wether it was designed for the 'Panther II' or not, I'm not sure. But. they were testing to try and make it fit on a Panther of some description.
I've seen the Panther II while training in FT Benning. They also have Jagtiger, Marder II, Hetzer, StuG III just to name the few.. Also M22 Locust, Sheridan and M56 Scorpion.
Stop lying little kid.
@@michaelcenteno8724 Visit Benning's armor museum you chairforce POG.
@@240pixel Damn kid. Why are you disrespecting the branch people serve by making fun of the name?
@@michaelcenteno8724 Calling somebody who's almost 30 and is serving in a 2nd Army as infantryman a "kid" kinda asking to be made fun of.
@@240pixel Grown ass man still name calling. Grow up act like an adult instead of a kid by name calling.
How about a cursed on design on the cone itself
Warpath: trailer looks like Claudia Schiffer at her peak, actual game looks like Kamala Harris on PCP.
10:55 -> I have been there and up close. The Panther is just aestheticly a masterpiece
This video was really good! I enjoyed it. Could you maybe do the T29 American tank next? You hinted that it would need its own video in your M6 video. I think it would be a cool topic to research
Problem with Panther II turret from Panzer Tracts was that drawing date (Late 43) was after MAN cancelled Panther II project in May 43 and turning it into "test mule"
When I saw the commercial, I thought "man. John Cena is getting around". I laughed when I realized it wasn't him.
This video is the kind of video lazerpig should make on the t-14 armata, I think a format like this would be good.
Much respect for this video. Far too many people are unwilling to accept when they have made an error.
I love correction videos. Proves that the maker is honest in their attempts to tell history has accurate has possible. You can only be has good has the source material at hand at the time. And it makes you human. Much about that war is just now becoming available , so more information may change in future.
3:04 (to 4.34) Wait, hang on there....!
What then explains how they knew the armor was inferior in February when they only fielded it in July?? 🤔
(I'm assuming they knew the penetration of the T-34s from experience, and the armor from their own next-gen designs - but it would still be nice to have certainty)
Not sure exactly but if I had to guess they had likely already captured some of the Soviet anti tank rifles and tested them. Could also just be from their previous tanks having roughly the same sidearmor and running into issues.
@@ConeOfArc
Thanks! :)
i assume the rational during that time, panther armor effectiveness are superior with the current tech but not with great margin.
kind of similar on how some MBT research focusing on what will came in the future so they have been designed to have enough space/room inside the tank for future upgrades
" I'm only human after all. " This line reminded me a song.
> Warpath
Why. You claim to hate misinformation about tanks, yet Warpath does it all the time.
They showed midway in the atlantic...
Oh god
@@fabovondestory b r u h
he need to feed his family man
@@Feten56709 you got a point there
Hey nice artwork on your desk just beneath your keyboard ⌨️ at 2:36 there.
Respect for admitting a mistake
What do you think about opinion that Tiger I should be considered as medium and Panther as heavy tank - from the one of the videos that was by Military History Visualized?
Small note, final drive failures were not exclusive to the Panther.
Almost all Panzers were suffering from final drive failures after a loss of tungsten to support strengthening to the gears. This is also why APCR rounds became more rare, and even 'brittle plates' became an issue when manganese no longer was as available.
The Panther also had increased final drive failures through the inability of the Germans to reliably produce helical-toothed gearing for the final drives, and having to rely on spur gears, which were more vulnerable to breaking teeth. A small contribution to the lack of reliability, but a factor nonetheless. As an aside, the Kfz 2 Kleiness Kettenkraftrad employed aluminum gears in its transmission to save on strategic materials, and also suffered from gear tooth breakage; replacement gears milled from proper steel show no such vulnerability, demonstrating how shortcuts due to limitations in raw materials contributed to reliability issues.
the sponser part, the midway islans are in the atlantic, so accurate
Bloody Brilliant video!
Don't beat yourself up though, even large companies made the same mistake with much worse outcomes!
And im sorry if i was a little harsh on your last Panther II video
02:46 "This was done using the Schmalturm turret..." Turm means turret in german, and schmal means narrow.
The tigers driving in unison is a sight to see 😍
One wonders why the tiger final drive was never adopted for the Panter from the get go.
That thing just worked....and all tanks had the habit of getting thicker as time went on ( was it married? )....
Another case of mistaken identity that spread is between FV 301 and Vickers Medium Cruiser Mk 1. Watch video on Armored Archives because it may have similarities between this and the mentioned video.
"This enigma of a tank." Nice one Arc.
We love your videos. This is bound to happen every now and then. Your admission and accountability proves just how amazing you and your staff are. We forgive you and will always love your videos.👍keep up all with all the informative videos that we have come to love.
Are you going to do a video on the British Challenger 2 tank? would be interesting!
... Wasn't the turret used on the late Puma armoured recon car, originally intended for the ww2 leopard,that wasn't eventually produced 🤔.
No malice, no blame!
Once again I must ask for you to replace the Bob Semple from your opening.
For it is not cursed, but instead is extremely blessed
"So I apologise for something so _inexcusable_ happening..."
Jesus Christ dude don't be so overwhelmingly hard on yourself! Everybody fucks up from time to time, and from your explanation it seems like a very reasonable fuck up. It pains me to hear people talk about themselves like that for something that's really a non-issue.
Yes but having a video which spreads further misinformation about a historical topic is not my goal and I shouldnt have let it happen
@@ConeOfArc Thanks for the rapid reply, and I agree with what you say about perpetuating incorrect data, but I stand by what I say that you were too hard on yourself. Take it easy just a bit. And thanks very much for the fantastic content.
@@ConeOfArc commit seppeku. You have brought dishonour.
Cone do you have any plans of looking into the cancelled T57/T58 heavy tank? I would love to know what happened to the prototype they built because I can't seem to find any info as to its eventual fate once the program for it was cancelled by the US military. The tank was basically a heavy tank mounted with I think a 120mm or 155mm gun using an autloader in an oscillating turret mounted on the M103 heavy tank chassis.
I think it was a 120 mm gun
6:30 - this is a common thread in German MIC. In tank development, specifically, this went on since 1934, when Pz.IV project was created as completely separate from virtually identical Pz.III project, with very low parts commonality at that, for no other reason but to give Krupp and his buddies their share of the gravy train. Otherwise Germans would have had Pz.III Ausf. N right from the start (hilariously, some people make an excuse that Pz.III could not carry 7.5 cm gun).
Same repeatedly happened with consequent German attempts to standardize and unify - reducing the number of unique parts would kick someone away from the gravy, and you can't have that! It went beyond absurd: in the middle of the war German arms manufacturers were busy suing each other over patent infringements (e.g. Erma vs Haenel).
Most Western researches, e.g. Jentz, sidestep and ignore this side of things completely, as if unification "just failed", for no reason at all. Presumably, because it highlights the Capitalist nature of Nazi Germany, and the striking similarity of their corrupt MIC practices to modern American MIC practices (M114 anyone?).
What are 'MIC practices', please?
@@elmariachi5133
MIC stands for Military Industrial Complex, and those practices include $640 plastic toilet seats, $659 ashtrays, $7,622 coffee makers, $74,165 aluminum ladders, and even $2,043 per a plain round nut that you literally get a dime a dozen at the hardware store. Or 720 F-35 jets delivered for $102 billion - none of which are considered operational, and most won't ever be operational.
Similarly, Tiger tank had non-interchangeable gears in its transmission, including idler gears, for no other reason but to inflate the sheer number of separate parts to sell to the government.
@@Conserpov All right! :) thank your for the explanation! So the 3rd reich has shown significant shortcomings of capitalism which of course wasn't acceptable in ever western society since.
@@elmariachi5133 IE. it was a bit more complicated that being either capitalist OR socialist. Generally, Marxism and subsequent Leninism/Stalinism are more economic in theory, Nazism was underpinned by a quasi form of Racial Socialism.
An apology is unnecessary but that shows your commitment to what you do keep it up
Old saying ….. there are only two types of people who never make a mistake …. Those who do nothing at all or liars ….. no exceptions.
Warpath accuracy:
what they call a wirbelwind: 𝗠𝟰 𝗦𝗵𝗲𝗿𝗺𝗮𝗻
their most common tank: 𝗠𝟯 𝗦𝘁𝘂𝗮𝗿𝘁
the bombers: 𝗕𝗙-𝟭𝟬𝟵
Just found your channel... Excellent video, thank you! 👍
Warpath is historacly accurate. Lost it at that point
He needs food!
i dont mind the mistake
im just happy u found it
and told us what was wrong