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The Big Helix: Running a Train on the Helix, Wiring, And More Roadbed (257)
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- Опубликовано: 25 май 2022
- Before we move up to the second and higher loops in the helix we need to check the track we just laid to make sure it is free of issues. Then I want to see how many cars a typical loco can haul up the helix. Finally we'll solder on some track feeders, install the riser blocks, and add the first section of roadbed for the second level.
thank you for sharing the video
Getting there, Thanks for sharing
Larry moving along. Some nice tips also. Like the part about the rail joiners causing a hump and how to resolve it
I enjoyed the video. That helix is coming along very well. Thanks for sharing your tips and hard work.
It sure is coming along nicely Larry, good job.
Looking really great Larry
Nick Australia
Overall good work Larry and things are progressing nicely, perhaps slowly but nicely. However I can't agree with locating the track feeders at the rail joiners. You took quite some time explaining how to make the joints smooth and correct any problems with gauge and potential humps all of which involved heating the track to move the rails within the ties. Then after doing all of that to get a smooth well working rail joint you advocate heating the joiners again 😲😲!! To me that is just asking to mis-align the rail joints you have just worked so hard to get right. I strongly recommend attaching the rail joiners somewhere near the middle of the flex track sections. Even on straight sections of rail I NEVER co-locate the feeders and rail joints, it's just asking for trouble even if you use a high melting point solder for the joiners and a lower melting point solder for the feeders..
I always recheck after adding the feeders. It takes so little heat and time to add feeders to the sides of the joiners you aren’t likely to soften the ties and they’re already pre-tinned so no need to heat up another location on the track.
Larry,
Very informative I now understand how you are able to get from tier to tier and the construction method. Thanks
Thanks Larry, a great how to Video, looking forward to the next installment, I’m running a bit behind due to Work outside.
Thank you for sharing. Enjoyed.
Larry, I have installed a double track helix on my layout. Mine is 1.99% and is 5 level that goes between my 20 inch deck heights. There are a couple of things you may want to consider before you progress that can make the installation a bit smoother. I followed two rules. The first one, is to never put a rail track joint over a riser sub-roadbed splice joint. Even after sanding smooth these can move and swell with humidity and temperature changes. The second is, Do not put your rail joints between two pieces of flex track directly across from each other. Even though this is convenient it can cause those bump issues you mentioned in your video. The best way I have found to join and solder rail joints is to follow prototypical railroad track practice and offset the joints. I follow this all my curves on my railroad. I space my joints out between 1/2 inch and an inch for each rail. This not only makes the track smoother it also prevents kinks where the two sections if flex track join. Track is attached to the wood which can move. This can result in some instances with a kink to the outside of the curve or a vertical curve causing a bump caused by said environmental conditions. By spacing the the joints between sections of track this greatly reduces the probabilities that you will have a problem down the road. I have had the track in my helix in for over 10 years without any problems.
As a side note my helix construction is made from 1/4'" mahogany plywood with Poplar risers. They were cut from a single sheet of the plywood in straight pieces with angles on the end and spliced with a 2 inch lap joint and glued with Titebond 2. The beauty there is no splice plates are needed and you have little waste from cutting out your round roadbed. I have plans and a template cut from poster board. Bill Shanaman, New Haven RR, Sugar City, Colorado
Staggering the rail joints is a good approach but 1/2" to 1" of stagger really isn't enough. If you do that the stagger needs to be set by the "loose" rail, all of which have to be on the same side of the track to allow them to slide into the adjacent tie strip and have at least 6" of stagger. It is a bit of a hassle to do this but to me is well worth the effort.
Like you I always avoid joints over joints, it is a good practice.
I glad it's almost finished
I wish it were finished. I now have to use a step ladder to get to the inside and soon will have to resort to crawling under to get in there. But it does look impressive!
Hi Larry, I saw your method of fixing track from another video last year bu fishplate, this guy is from Australia
I'm following your helix build very closely, as I'm at that same point in my layout now. Only difference that I did was I cut the inner blocks 1/16" shorter to give me a slight amount of super elevation
I'm running two tracks, one up and one down on a logging / mining themed setup. I'm using 3-1/2" outer blocks in case I want to run taller Loco's later on. Upper will predominately be the logging and mining, lower level will be dedicated to coaches only - I'm modeling 1840 - 1880 . . . lots of "rustic" wood buildings and wooden ore cars for the mine. It's hard to find the exact period that I'm doing so the coaches are Bachmann Durango and Silverton units.
Sounds like a fun layout with a lot of potential for scenery.
Have you consider using pocket holes for the riser blocks. I have used this type of jointer on my layout. I have enjoyed your channel
Was there a reason that you didn't drill holes for your droppers through the plywood, or is it just that they wont be seen anyway. Frank
no need to hide them down there and more work.
This is a great video. Maybe it will be on a future video, but I'm wondering how you are running your bus for the track. Also, noticed that you are using an all-in-one countersink drill bit, which probably should be mentioned (maybe I missed it if you did).
I’ll talk about the bus when we get to the detection video. As for the countersink bit I think it is sized for #6/8 screws which is what I commonly use.
One thing I think would be best is to test your track with the most extreme rolling stock in your collection.
By extreme do you mean the worst? Since I modify all my rolling stock to the same standard I’d have to dig out some old stuff to do that.
Would be interested to know how one of your Hornby Bulleid pacific's or other UK steam locomotives pulling typical UK passenger cars does going up?
OK, I ran my new Manor up the helix and it pulled an Accurascale Siphon G plus 3 Hornby coaches without issues. Compare that to a Hornby King class pulling the siphon plus 5 coaches. My Dapol Mogul pulled the Siphon and one coach, whereas my Merchant Navy pulled the Siphon plus 6 coaches. I still need to run a WCC/BoB up there, maybe this weekend.
@@TheDCCGuy Awesome - thankyou for that. Thats actually better than I was expecting. Would be interested to see what the WCC's do as the mechanism is very simliar to the rebuilt MC's which I have ton of (Far more than I can ever justify!)
Hello Larry , did you do a video showing how the final turn of the helix connects to your main layout
No, before I can do that I have to get the tracks on the main section done and before I can fit those I need to build the BIG bridge over the James River. Right now I am working on the trestles for the BIG bridge and as soon as they ready I will do a series of videos on modeling the river, the trestles, and the overall scene. Once that is done it will be time to lay track down to the helix.
Larry I am building a new layout from scratch, hope to build a staging yard like you are doing , I watched your videos a few times now
Is your RR run in one direction and that's why single rail helix?
No, the layout is primarily double track mainline. However after evaluating my schedule I found only a couple of instances where two trains need to enter or leave the staging yard at around the same time, so a double track helix was unnecessary. Given the current cost of flex track I’d have to have a lot of potential meets before I would invest in a double track helix.
@@TheDCCGuy well that makes sense as long as delay time is acceptable. Thanks.
In this case, this helix brings the trains up from the staging yard so the delay will be acceptable. My other helix will be in the middle of the scenicked portion but will be about half the size of this one so half the time.
Hi Larry, just curious.. are you using 3rd or 4th radius curves?
Let’s see, according to the chart on Hattons website a 4th radius is 24”. My minimum radius on the visible portion of the layout is 36” but I do go down to 30” in the helix so I guess I’m out there a bit more!
Wow, that's a large helix .... Thanks for the reply.
Larry Question about Helix. On My Helix I had to put two turnouts on the track. A tortoise machine will not fix under the Level a train would hit it.. I was thinking of adding a pad on the side of the roadbed to mount the tortoise upside down. I was wondering is there a small device That I can get that will control the turnout and send a signal over the DCC line so that JMRI will no the turnout status. The tortoise machine do if you are using a NCE Switch 8 MK2 and my Cobalt IP Digital also send signals back to JMRI for turnout status. Is there a smaller machine that will do this or should I use the side mount and turn the machine upside down ? Thanks Tom
Tom-I can’t remember whether you have NCE or Digitrax. With NCE they make a device that communicate with the computer but I am not familiar with it. Some Digitrax accy decoders have connectors for LocoNet so you can report status.You just will need to explore what these companies list on their websites. You also might check with RR-CirKits as they make some Loconet compatible devices for reporting status.
While you are giving us an EXCELLENT discussion and "HOW TO" on building a helix I think it's time to ask a concept question. There have been six (6) episodes devoted to this topic. That's fine, TO A POINT. When I see how much space has to be devoted to the spiral I think you need to consider how many home layout owners can actual find, and devote that much space to their home layout! As a retiree I can't, and I think many/most other model railroaders are in the same situation. You may be spending too much time on what is really a "club feature"! I always look forward to your programs so this observation is difficult for me to make. Thank you for all for all your hobby support over the years! --- Bill
The same could be said for the fact I am committing a 25’x30’ room for the layout and my huge staging yard series from last winter. The reality is this series of videos will likely be around as a learning resource long after I and the layout are gone. Whether or not you or someone else choose to replicate this or any other feature is not the rationale as long as someone eventually does. Plus I know lots of folks with large layouts including helices so they are being built. Moreover it is all part of a learning process to build skills at all levels.
Hi Bill. I understand the point you are making - and it's the same one that people make to the Mackinley Railway guys on their posts here in the UK - i.e. they are building something that is huge and well beyond almost all modellers. However, their response is like Larry's and I think I agree; while these videos are presenting a recipe to allow you to duplicate what you see, they are ALSO providing information on tools, techniques and methods which you may be able to apply to your own modelling activities. Plus of course, even seeing something that is well beyond what you can yourself build due to space constraints, might well still trigger an idea for something that you CAN accomodate. So it's information, inspiration and aspiration that are the benefits - plus of course a reference for anyone who is lucky enough to have such a space at their disposal.
Gentlemen, I understand your comments and expect that Larry appreciates your defense also, But... I will restate the basic conceptual problem. Using cameras to monitor hidden yards and devoting 6+ episodes to a helix are well beyond the "typical Home Layout". Being able to "Commit" a 20'X30' Room to a home layout isn't an explanation, it clinches my point. And let me also point out that the concept of Rise over Run calculations was well explained by the previous generation of modelers. I just "gotta" say this also , Larry either has the most patient and understanding spouse or he is a bachelor without any other commitments during the week to have generated over 250 episodes. Hats off to him. It took forever for me to get the "rights" to my little 11'X20" Shelf. Well I see I've got to throw more coal on the fire now. The steam pressure is dropping on my loco...
Larry, this question is off topic, but I’m having trouble finding an answer I can understand and I know you can do it.
Teach me how to wire a rotary switch for a yard latter please.
Thank you
BQ
I have seen several articles in MR where a rotary switch was used to control the turnouts. It is not as simple as it sounds since you have to have some way to flip polarity. I showed two methods in chapter 8 of my book “Wiring Your Model Railroad”, available from Kalmbach or Amazon.
@@TheDCCGuy thank you, Larry.
😊
How did you determine the rise versus run?
That’s all discussed in video 252.
Isn't is fun to build a helix?
Yes, but it is sort of like the never ending story. It seems like there is always one mor loop ahead. Next time I may just raise the floor instead.
Larry, I think I'm going to take the time to design an elevator that will also rotate the train 180 degrees. It will take up a lot less room and a lot less track.
Have you finished it yet?
I can’t connect it to the layout until I finish the 4’ long bridge and approach track it connects to. That is the next BIG project for this winter. So more to come on that one.
@@TheDCCGuy, looking forward to seeing it!
I think 3.5" is a better rise for HO. Double stacks probably require that.
Yes, if I was modeling a later time period I too would go that way, but since I stop at 1957 I don’t think they even have extended hoppers for sawdust transport.
Howzit : Actually; It's Kinddov Simple ... To Avoid Excessive * Dwell-Time * When Soldering Metal Rail-Joiners ( Be It During Helix-Construction or Laying Down Curves or Straight Track ); Gently File ( Scratch-Up ) Both The Surfaces Of The Rail-Joiner and The Side Of The Rail; Apply Flux; Solder ( Thin-Thread; Rosin-Type ) and Then The Tip Of The Soldering-Iron .... You Will Find That The Process Is Quick; Free-Flowing and Efficient. A Common Mistake Is To Use A LOW-WATTAGE / UNDER-RATED Soldering-Iron In The Misguided Belief That The Use Thereof Will Not Damage The Plastic Ties During The Process .... In Truth; The Exact OPPOSITE Occurrs; This Being Due To The Rail Acting As A Heat-Sink That Requires An Extended * Dwell-Time * That Not Only Compromises The Integrity Of The Solder-Joint Itself; But Will More Than Likely Damage / Melt The Plastic Ties Too. Cheers For Now / Johnny
Man that is hard to read but writing style aside...
I agree with most of what you are saying but it is much simpler to use a flux or rosin to prepare the rail and joiners for soldering. Use of a flux is far more effective than filing as it will work into all the joint surfaces and the solder will flow everywhere that flux has cleaned. To me low wattage and small tip soldering irons have always been a recipe for melting the ties when trying to solder rail joints or add feeders to the rails - low wattage irons don't get hot enough and small tips don't have enough heat capacity to maintain their temperature when touched to the rails/joiners/feeders. I understand what Larry is trying to accomplish by using a small tip to get into the side of the rail web but he and I fundamentally disagree on that technique - it works for him but sure doesn't work for me. I have always done track work with a Weller 100/140W soldering gun using the 100W trigger detent, allow the tip to heat up then quickly and only after that touch the joint area to melt the flux and quickly add solder. If you move the iron back and forth along the rail joint while heating it the process takes barely 2 seconds. If track position allows I heat the inside of the rail and add solder to the outside of the rail so the heat wicks the solder though the entirety of the joint. Of course you can't move the tip when soldering feeders but again allowing the tip to heat before touching the tip to feeder/rail contact area and quickly adding solder as soon as the flux or rosin is melted makes a quick strong joint in less than a second. Yes it takes some practice to get the timing, pressure and solder feed rates right but once learned it is a highly effective soldering technique. In the end it comes down to heat flow being a function of temperature differential and balancing the heat capacity of the tip to the thermal mass of the components to be soldered.
@@68Jaguar420G Point taken and valid comment ... I trust that this is easier on the eye ! I will resist and desist ... With Thanx. Regards / Johnny sometimes use the In taking up on