You can almost imagine the designers being told to stop working on this innovative and imaginative sports car, and to go and help the Allegro design team with the ashtrays. Then losing the will to live.
.....they then went on to help put a dog shit brown interior in a Maxi, LMAO, I worked on all this junk when it was mainstream , started work in '77 aged 16 and was thrown right into it, fkn plastic screw in gear levers in Marinas, liver and "trunnions" front "legs" that seized up till they squeaked when turning the wheel, hilarious crap, all of it apart from the P5B Coupe, loved those
Did my apprenticeship at a BL dealer from '72 and have to say the E series never gave us any trouble. The only warranty repair I can remember was re shimming tappets on a new one once. Same with diffs on Marinas and Sherpas, never repaired a single one; very different when I was at Ford at we were constantly rebuilding Salisbury axles. I won't mention Marina gearbox's though, as I rebuilt what seemed like millions of them. The Maxi was a cracking car but very dull although the fleets seemed to like them ( I think they got them cheap, and I cant see many reps being pleased to be handed the keys). I remember the motorways then and if you looked at lane three it would be full of reps in Cortinas going flat out!
I’ve never heard of this car before but watching your video I feel like you’ve actually driven it so vivid are your descriptions! Another “if only” moment.
The suspension was fantastic, yet it is the interior space that marked the 1800 in mind. It was considered, and indeed appeared to be, a small car by Australian standards, and yet it seemed to be a Tardis once in either the front or rear seats.
Very interesting - as an ex-owner of an MGF, I feel glad they got there in the end. All the logic of mid engine and hydragas ride (and flawed but zingy and brilliant K-Series) translated into a masterpiece. Pity it was so underrated, I had an MX5 afterwards and hated it, sold it after 6 months!
First year I lived in Launceston I visited the Silverdome to view all of the Targa Tasmania cars. There must have been half a dozen MGFs, including a BRG example with white roof entered by a Japanese couple. That was the same year I saw a 6R4 for the only time and that thing screamed "purpose-built monster" at you. The F was a beautiful replacement for the B/C/R. One can hope that at some future juncture the Chinese will decide that heritage is a thing.
I was thinking DeTomaso Pantera look... The MG D GT could have been a great car in some ways, of course not in planned engine/tranny way, but by 1970's, the Importer/Dealers killed off MG/Triumph sales in the giant USA market! They priced the weak engined/low reliability MGs and Triumphs in the USA at the same or higher prices than vastly more reliable and more powerful Chevrolet Corvettes... yes, problem was Corvettes were 4 times the car... Although I still have my repainted Grabber Orange '75 MG Midget with added Buick 215" V8 and 5 speed BW T50 manual tranny...
Growing up just east of Indianapolis, I was fascinated when Lotus brought their rear-engined 29 to the Brickyard. Beyond being interested in Lotus racing cars, I soon became aware of their road cars. Having a family requiring 4-doord and a backseat ruled out an Elan and Elite. The arrival of the mid-engined Lotus Europa got my attention, but again growing family made a 4-door sedan a necessity. As my finances improved, a Toyota MR-2 soon got my attention. Bought on in 1987. It was the most fun I've ever had driving.
While the Hydrolastic Suspension system was good, there wasn't enough damping from front-to-rear for my liking on my modded 1310cc Cooper S swapped Aussie Mini Clubman S. However, among many of the changes to make it a high-performance Mini, was to bolt a pair of front shock-brackets to the subframe (yes, the threaded-nuts were welded on the sub-frames regardless of which type of suspension!), but there weren't any places to bolt the shocks onto the suspension-arms, so it did require some drilling & tapping to fit the original Mini shock-studs to the arms! As my Mini was one of the last Aussie cars to have the Hydrolastic System, it was relatively easy to find the parts needed in 1980!
All right gang (those of us who’ve been watching for a long while), let’s all share these ever more awesome videos around and get Ed to 100k. If viewership grew at the rate of production quality and content, we would be there.
Ed, brilliant as always. In an alternate MGD universe of my youth, schoolmate mate Roy would have been drawing MGDs everywhere and not TR7s, Steve would have bought an MGD not a B and I may have adored the D in the same way I did the X1/9 lol. EX234 looks very similar to the early somewhat feminine looking Alfa Spyder. the AD070 picture used looks a bit like a Japanese shopped Marina Targa and some real similarities in the XJS back end styling to the MGD.
We Americans only drew TR8s... LOL! The MG D GT could have been a great car in some ways, of course not in planned engine/tranny way, but by 1970's, the Importer/Dealers killed off MG/Triumph sales in the giant USA market! They priced the weak engined/low reliability MGs and Triumphs in the USA at the same or higher prices than vastly more reliable and more powerful Chevrolet Corvettes... yes, problem was Corvettes were 4 times the car... Although I still have my repainted Grabber Orange '75 MG Midget with added Buick 215" V8 and 5 speed BW T50 manual tranny...
That's understandable, the MG D GT could have been a great car in some ways, of course not in planned engine/tranny way, but by 1970's, the Importer/Dealers killed off MG/Triumph sales in the giant USA market! They priced the weak engined/low reliability MGs and Triumphs in the USA at the same or higher prices than vastly more reliable and more powerful Chevrolet Corvettes... yes, problem was Corvettes were 4 times the car... Although I still have my repainted Grabber Orange '75 MG Midget with added Buick 215" V8 and 5 speed BW T50 manual tranny...
The AC3000ME started out as the Diablo Project using a Maxi drive train in mid engined configuration. When AC took it over they lost years by redesigning it to take a Ford V6 3 litre and a bespoke gearbox. The resulting car was a gem. But the delay in getting it to market hampered the eventual success of the project. Also available in the seventies were a number of mid engined "specialist" and kit cars using the Mini drivetrain in mid engined configuration. Cars such as the GTM, DeepSanderson and Unipower GT A later car by GTM, The Libra, used Rover Metro drive trains in mid engined configuration. I heard that MG Rover had one for evaluation when designing the MGF.
I did enjoy watching this, I had 2 MGFs over the years, nice cars to drive, one got written off from a rear end shunt though. Had a Mazda MX5, ok but for the rear end stepping out in damp conditions, but my favourite was the Toyota MR2, a gem of a car, handled like a go-cart, really fun to drive, as all sports cars should be. But going back to the MGF, as a front engine car, it was a really good car and fun to drive, couldn't fault it.
A shame... the MG D GT could have been a great car in some ways, of course not in planned engine/tranny way, but by 1970's, the Importer/Dealers killed off MG/Triumph sales in the giant USA market! They priced the weak engined/low reliability MGs and Triumphs in the USA at the same or higher prices than vastly more reliable and more powerful Chevrolet Corvettes... yes, problem was Corvettes were 4 times the car... Although I still have my repainted Grabber Orange '75 MG Midget with added Buick 215" V8 and 5 speed BW T50 manual tranny... and an '85 Fiero for mid engined fun...
Well researched and presented in an interesting, informative and sober manner. For me at least, this is the way that car videos should be and it's much appreciated. One thing that always crops up in videos about BMC/BMH/BL is the shortage of money to develop new products. It seems that from the late 1950s onwards the management forgot that profits were essential to keeping the business healthy; the Mini being a good example of this, despite its innovative design.
Well the MG D GT could have been a great car in some ways, of course not in planned engine/tranny way, but by 1970's, the Importer/Dealers killed off MG/Triumph sales in the giant USA market! They priced the weak engined/low reliability MGs and Triumphs in the USA at the same or higher prices than vastly more reliable and more powerful Chevrolet Corvettes... yes, problem was Corvettes were 4 times the car... Although I still have my repainted Grabber Orange '75 MG Midget with added Buick 215" V8 and 5 speed BW T50 manual tranny...
7:27 The interior shot of Ex234 shows what I think is a TR7 steering wheel. The E series was originally intended to be a 1300, but in development it was decided that it wasn't pokey enough. The bores were already siamesed, so the only way to increase capacity was to lengthen the stroke to get 1500cc. That still was not enough, and it got lengthened again for 1750cc. BTW the 2200 E6 engine was designed to bolt to the 4-speed sump and gearbox of the 1800cc B-series. As was the O-series when it came along. The Rover T-series 16v engine was based on the O block. I wonder if you could put the T engine on the fwd sump gearbox (actually it is BEHIND the engine on the 1800 Landcrab and Princess etc) and have a 140bhp 2 litre Landcrab.
How ironic that Ed never mentions the Lotus Europa in the background behind the MGB V8 as he leans on it during his presentation. He does mention the later Lotus Elite, but the Europa was a direct competitor to the proposed mid-engined MGD, being introduced in 1966 and produced through 1975, the period the MGD would have come online.
Ed you must excuse the cognitive difficulties of an old man for my total misunderstanding of the announcement of your expansion onto more social media platforms, which this idiot took as your excellent reviews being dropped from Utube. So you have absolutely no idea just how delighted to have this MG sports care tour de force pop up today. Phew! I hope to avoid undue sycophancy but you are THE go to site for such well researched, written and presented classic car reviews, delivered with confidence, boldness and with a touch of fun. Indeed you are nonpareil in the motoring firmament! This history of MG sports cars was great and enjoyably which filled in the gaps of numbering about which I had no idea. Brilliant! I look forward to my continued enjoyment of your site on Utube 'cos this old codger only has this technophobic choice! Rob 😊
Great film. I'd never even heard of the MG-D prototype. One little thing about the E-Series engine; I could be wrong but I think the cylinder head was cast iron. Only that large finned rocker cover was alloy.
Another reason the engine was designed like it was is that it kept the engine short for transverse mounting - this was particularly Tue for six cylinder engines like the Kimberley/Tasman.
Great video which is well informed. I have had Austin and Cooper Minis, Sprite, MGB, Recently MGRV8. Sadly the MX5 had a clean run globally because of the BMC "fisheads" at the top sadly.
I have just stumbled on your video. I remember seeing one of your first. You have come a very long way. This video is well-researched and professionally presented. Congratulations!
Yes, the MG D GT could have been a great car in some ways, of course not in planned engine/tranny way, but by 1970's, the Importer/Dealers killed off MG/Triumph sales in the giant USA market! They priced the weak engined/low reliability MGs and Triumphs in the USA at the same or higher prices than vastly more reliable and more powerful Chevrolet Corvettes... yes, problem was Corvettes were 4 times the car... Although I still have my repainted Grabber Orange '75 MG Midget with added Buick 215" V8 and 5 speed BW T50 manual tranny... my Midget looks better, more modern, smoother styled with its black rubber bumpers...
If the X1/9 and MR2 are any indication, it could have been a success. But knowing BL I'm certain they would have found a way of messing up if they would have produced it.
Already messed up, the MG D GT could have been a great car in some ways, of course not in planned engine/tranny way, but by 1970's, the Importer/Dealers killed off MG/Triumph sales in the giant USA market! They priced the weak engined/low reliability MGs and Triumphs in the USA at the same or higher prices than vastly more reliable and more powerful Chevrolet Corvettes... yes, problem was Corvettes were 4 times the car... Although I still have my repainted Grabber Orange '75 MG Midget with added Buick 215" V8 and 5 speed BW T50 manual tranny...
I love it: the styling looks so beautiful for an affordable mid-engine car. I can't think of a sportd car in it's class that has the same looks: maybe a Matra Murena for the front, and a Lancia Montecarlo for the rear, but it's not exact.
Great video and story. Look forward to you doing a story on the Rover SDI. I had 3 and still the cars I have enjoyed owning the most. For younger readers, if you think the SDI still looks modern today, can you imagine the impact it had amongst the boxey cars of the 70's
Same story over and over with BL. They did have some interesting developments in the pipeline but then they were cancelled by management because the current range was selling well enough. It is like they never heard of product development.
Of course the MG D GT could have been a great car in some ways, but of course not in planned engine/tranny way, and by 1970's, the Importer/Dealers killed off MG/Triumph sales in the giant USA market! They priced the weak engined/low reliability MGs and Triumphs in the USA at the same or higher prices than vastly more reliable and more powerful Chevrolet Corvettes... yes, problem was Corvettes were 4 times the car... Although I still have my repainted Grabber Orange '75 MG Midget with added Buick 215" V8 and 5 speed BW T50 manual tranny...
As a senior development engineer in Engineering department at MG working with Syd Enever, Roy Brocklehurst, Terry M, Don H , Alec Henry et al. I had some input into the New concept. It had a Central mounted DeDion axle, transverse Fuel tank and the 1750 Maxi power unit. Early tests at chicane Dunlop test area Fradley aerodrome were good .Although it was a bit shaky. The photo is interesting as I have no idea where or when this car was made into thus condition. It was engineered to compete and expand with MG V8 NEVER A BESTSELLER OR TYPICALLY MG. At the time Stokes and his cohorts were influencing most Engineering activities, including the MG air bag development To qoute " I'm not having those things in any of my cars ! Stop work on them today." Sad time when the company was closed.
Your videos get better and better. So much information here and obviously you've done your research. Having owned a Eunos Roadster - 12 years old when I bought it - over three years I put up a lot of miles - over 100 thousand and noting fell off - unlike the 18 month old Spitfire I'd bought may ears earlier. I always admired the MGB - the GT was beautiful but it would have had to be a roadster for me but it was always just a little out of my reach. I imagine though that it would have been closer to the Triumph than the Mazda in terms of reliability and usability as a daily driver. The MX5, although in several actual incarnations has sold more than four times the MG|B , which makes it the best selling car in the world.
A mg r v8 was pretty well sorted out, I did a fair few mods on mgbs fitting mg r v8 bits like fitting complete front and rear suspension and brakes. It completely changed the vehicle, just wish the car was just a bit lighter.
Plus the MG D GT could have been a great car in some ways, of course not in planned engine/tranny way, but by 1970's, the Importer/Dealers killed off MG/Triumph sales in the giant USA market! They priced the weak engined/low reliability MGs and Triumphs in the USA at the same or higher prices than vastly more reliable and more powerful Chevrolet Corvettes... yes, problem was Corvettes were 4 times the car... Although I still have my repainted Grabber Orange '75 MG Midget with added Buick 215" V8 and 5 speed BW T50 manual tranny...
Superb work stitching the story together, ironic that the stop gap V8 MGB is the most sought after......were brilliant without the committees involved.
Both of the MGB replacements are great looking cars, the earlier green one is very reminiscent of the Alfa Romeo Spider, and the later one is just plain stunning for 1970.
The rear has shades of a properly designed Lotus Europa. (I firmly think that the Europa is a good looking car but it could have been a beautiful one) The views being shown from the rear 3/4 show absolutely beautiful lines. Fantastic video and a tragedy that this beauty never saw the tarmac.
EX 234 - what a beautiful car. Shades of Afla Romeo Spyder and Sunbeam Alpine for sure, but it could have been a world beater. Difficult to imagine it's from the same umbrella organisation that gave us the Allegro.
A very interesting video, thanks for taking so much trouble. You forgot to mention that Leyland management were so inept and the financial controls were absolutely appalling. Consequently and with the aid of the disruptive trade unions, the quality control and build quality were unbelievably bad. BMC/Leyland had no idea of the costings of their vehicles and made very little money, even on the minis. Ford, on the other hand, knew to the penny what their vehicles would cost before they started production plus how much profit they would make. There was a storey at the time that when the mini came out Ford senior management phoned up their BMC/Leyland opposite numbers to tell them they would not make any money out of the mini. On the subject of quality, the early minis and 1100's were so badly put together they used to leak like sieves. A friend in the early 60's bought a new mini and when it leaked returned it to the dealer to be rectified. The factory recommended solution was to punch some holes in the floor to let the water out. That was the mentality of the manufacturer.
We had a works visit to the rover factory, at the end of the tour they had a mgr v8 on display next to the prototype MGF, as I remember they said most of the mgr’s were being exported to japan
Understandable, the MG D GT could have been a great car in some ways, of course not in planned engine/tranny way, but by 1970's, the Importer/Dealers killed off MG/Triumph sales in the giant USA market! They priced the weak engined/low reliability MGs and Triumphs in the USA at the same or higher prices than vastly more reliable and more powerful Chevrolet Corvettes... yes, problem was Corvettes were 4 times the car... Although I still have my repainted Grabber Orange '75 MG Midget with added Buick 215" V8 and 5 speed BW T50 manual tranny...
I went to look at the MGF at its launch in my local dealership with my Dad and brother. As an MG midget owner really wanted to like it and was in the market for a new sports car. The salesman at the dealer obviously thought I was too young as I looked a young 20 despite being nearly 30 and focused on my dad and brother pretty much ignoring my entirely. Dad and brother got a test drive and I didn’t. I got to sit in it and was totally disappointed as it’s saying position was very saloon like not sports car at all. When the salesman was told by my dad that he should really be focusing on me since I was the person in the position of buying one. However by then I was not interested as it was more expensive than MX 5 and wasn’t in the same level. I told him it was too expensive, too slow and the driving position was like sitting on a sofa. Ended up buying a Caterham 7 and early on had a bit of a burn up on the road leaving an MG F for dead while I was running it in on
Correct, the MG D GT could have been a great car in some ways, of course not in planned engine/tranny way, but by 1970's, the Importer/Dealers killed off MG/Triumph sales in the giant USA market! They priced the weak engined/low reliability MGs and Triumphs in the USA at the same or higher prices than vastly more reliable and more powerful Chevrolet Corvettes... yes, problem was Corvettes were 4 times the car... Although I still have my repainted Grabber Orange '75 MG Midget with added Buick 215" V8 and 5 speed BW T50 manual tranny...
Thanks muchly for another corking feature, Ed - superb! Here's my 6d-worth: (i). That corporate attitude of "That'll do! - it's still selling well, so we'll just rest on our laurels" was in such stark contrast to most other free-market/capitalist manufacturers and was the equivalent of signing a Death Warrant a couple o'years in advance. (ii). Those FLYING BUTTRESSES HAD TO BE THERE in order to allow for such a TALL engine, but were an excellent way to mask the engine's height (its 'weakness') - IMHO, an excellent design master-stroke! - I'd speculate that the mid-engined ADO21 was probably TOO radical, for the staid Corporate SUITS, I suspect. AFAIK, Ray Brocklehurst was primarily responsible for following through/developing its design - the actual concept sketch having come from the great Harris Mann, in mid-1969 - admittedly borrowing somewhat from the Ferrari Dino 206GT. - The sad ending of this MGD was that it was completed and presented in late 1970 but then 'killed' in December of that year, being crushed shortly thereafter.
The issue with ADO21 was that it didn't have huge support within MG itself. I was astounded to discover this when I interviewed the late Don Hayter, but the car would've had poor interior room and little luggage capacity (less than the MGB GT) - a problem for the North American market. Another issue were the engines, because whilst the E-series had a five-speed gearbox, the larger faster E6 only ever had a four-speed gearbox. I'm also pretty sure that ADO21 was only ever intended to run with steel suspension. The prototype certainly was running coils in the photos which Hayter had - featuring its de Dion rear set-up. Also, if BLMC were to run something more exotic then it's doubtful that it would've opted for Hydrolastic given the car's likely launch date. By 1972 BLMC had moved to Hydragas for the Allegro and it would appear in the 1975 Austin-Morris 18/22s. Completely understand your passion for this car though. So close to greatness.
Similar to the Fiero in the States, bit of a miracle it was made, had pretty solid sales, but was held down because of the Firebird, Camaro, the Corvette. Can't have a more ckever car taking sales from other divisions.
You would have thought that the law of averages would have helpful Leyland get one greatest hit from all the prototypes they churned out over the years. Then, I suppose we have to take sod's law into account. Great job Ed.
Good video, thank you! Interesting that Gilbern also tried to build a mid engined car with the Maxi engine but they got as far as a prototype (which has now been completed). Looking forward to more interesting videos from you.
No one seems to remember that the 2200 and 2600 sixes were built in Australia. The east/west Tasman and Kimberley. Both cars upgraded 1800s. They were 5 speed, fast and handled like a dream but a bit small for Australian distances. I had the 2600 version in NZ but spare parts had dried up, not a usual BLMC problem.
The only BL car from that era that I had extensive experience with was the Dolomite Sprint. Lovely car. Give it fuel injection, better rear suspension bushes and fix the wandering head gasket problems and it could have been a world beater.
Another superb delivery of a professionaI video. 👍 I thought you might have mentioned the Austin Zanda which was also to use a rear mounted Maxi engine. A lovely looking concept car by Harris Mann (glass-fibre mock-up at Gaydon). The idea being later revived as the ADO21. I seem to remember that later Maxis and all 1750 versions ditched the cable gear linkage and replaced it with rods.
That would've been a beautiful car. As an American, I'm envious of British sport cars of the 60's. I would love to have an old MG, Triump, or any other of those beautiful cars
So you probably know the MG D GT could have been a great car in some ways, of course not in planned engine/tranny way, but by 1970's, the Importer/Dealers killed off MG/Triumph sales in the giant USA market! They priced the weak engined/low reliability MGs and Triumphs in the USA at the same or higher prices than vastly more reliable and more powerful Chevrolet Corvettes... yes, problem was Corvettes were 4 times the car... Although I still have my repainted Grabber Orange '75 MG Midget with added Buick 215" V8 and 5 speed BW T50 manual tranny... plus '85 Fiero mid engine sports car...
The British sports car engine development missed an important heart beat way back in the 1930s when several companies asked for government for money to compete against Germany and Italy whose company’s had the full backing of Hitler and Mussolini. In an ironic twist you wouldn’t see any Porsche’s, Ferrari’s or even Lamborghini’s today if it wasn’t for the early British racers who where dominating sports car racing at the time and who stimulated the desire to win.
Take that B out! The MG D GT could have been a great car in some ways, of course not in planned engine/tranny way, but by 1970's, the Importer/Dealers killed off MG/Triumph sales in the giant USA market! They priced the weak engined/low reliability MGs and Triumphs in the USA at the same or higher prices than vastly more reliable and more powerful Chevrolet Corvettes... yes, problem was Corvettes were 4 times the car... Although I still have my repainted Grabber Orange '75 MG Midget with added Buick 215" V8 and 5 speed BW T50 manual tranny...
@@buzzwaldron6195 (yes ironically almost 90% of those classic Brit sports cars were sold in the States and Canada). - They never really caught on much in the U.K. and subsequently RHD models are much the rarer ones now…
They should have simply built and sold the MGD as both an MG and a Triumph with slight styling differences... The MG D GT could have been a great car in some ways, of course not in planned engine/tranny way, but by 1970's, the Importer/Dealers killed off MG/Triumph sales in the giant USA market! They priced the weak engined/low reliability MGs and Triumphs in the USA at the same or higher prices than vastly more reliable and more powerful Chevrolet Corvettes... yes, problem was Corvettes were 4 times the car... Although I still have my repainted Grabber Orange '75 MG Midget with added Buick 215" V8 and 5 speed BW T50 manual tranny...
Great video, once again! Despite it's looks and innovations, the MG DGT with a Maxi engine would have been an unpleasant sports car. BL would NEVER have been capable of developing it successfully. Moreover, THE market for British sports cars was the USA but it was niche and the dealer network small and thinly spread. The TR7 was definitely right in those circumstances as it was understandable by both owners and mechanics. Unfortunately, the Japanese had fun cars too that were more reliable and better built than UK equivalents. It's very, very hard making cars that people really want to buy........ Time we put away those rose-tinted specs.
Fascinating. That crusty Alfa GTV illustrates another issue with IRS. This is the tendancy to mount the rear disc brakes inboard near the final drive. This is good for unsprung weight, but poor for sevicing. Jaguar and Rover please note. Actually, for a road car, which lives with road filth, it is better to have outboard drum rear brakes. The MGD could also have had a bigger brother with the Rover P6BS, if only... BMC ceased in 1966, and MG met Jaguar, via BMH, before meeting Triumph via Leyland in 1968.
Wow, that drawing doesn't do it any favors. Looks like it has rear steer. And the rear wheels on the mock up are way to skinny & inset. Who would think that looks good? Great vid!
I think one big problem for BL was that they had projects like MG D which were about prestige when really the general public wanted reliable "bread and butter".
The cable change was replaced by a rod change on the Maxi by the time MGD would have been launched. But would the 5 speed gearbox be able to handle an E6 engine? It wasn't used in the Princess
MG/Triumph, etc, in the USA were, as you say, doomed by reputation. Even the best-build British cars were/are in no way up to the standards required for the USA, the build quality, power, rust, etc. were nowhere near enough.
Another excellent vid that you managed to knock out of the park! Why is it whenever I watch any vid involving BMC/BL it ultimately tracks the useless decisions made by the incompetent management. Yeah I know about Red Robbo and his mates. I even remember watching the BBC news where he was shouting at the workers calling for another strike and out they went purely on a show of hands. But I can't help feeling that he would not have existed if it weren't for the utterly useless management that the workforce was saddled with .... 23:5223:52
@frglee I rather think it was more like director room arguments saying, no people might like the MG range more but it's the Triumph name that must succeed over it. The starving of imports into North America for months and refusal to supply MGBs to try and ensure that the TR7 would have a successful launch was evidence of that. Let's not also forget the wonderful introduction of the TR8 and all the reliability and fire issues with the Triumph models. The MG name should have survived long after the Triumph when it came to sports cars. There was at least some Karma when the Triumph Spitfire production stopped before the MG Midget. For all the boardroom determination that went on to try and promote the demise of MG and support Triumph, it was actually Spitfire that went first. As someone who loved my British built MG Midgets in my youth, at one point I had two, one I was driving and a second I was renovating (on the cheap as most MG enthusiasts did, sourcing many parts from MG International scrap yard in Birkenhead) I drove Midgets for over 10 years and was an ardent supporter and believer in British cars. I only gave up my Midget because as the wife didn't drive and I then had my brand new Halewood built Black XR3i (with alloy wheels!), I really couldn't justify it anymore and didn't have the space. I always hoped there would be a new small MG Midget, not the +150lb rubber bumpered 1500 Spitfire engine version but a proper modern small MG. I thought the Midget was a lovely looking car and the only other car that caught my eye back then was the Fiat X19 'Lido' metallic black with almost white interior but I couldn't bring myself to even contemplate buying a foreign car! I never realised, or perhaps I'd forgotten MG had plans for the MGD GT, at the right price that could have been the perfect car but perhaps it was no surprise that it never made production when you consider MGB GT V8 only made production because Costello were upgrading 1800 MGBs and couldn't turn them out fast enough. BL even refused to supply them with HC engines and only allowed them access to the LC variants, which rather demonstrated just how determined those in control of BL were to press the self destruct button. A car company and a heritage that could have done so much more if only we had a leadership/management that was fit for purpose. It's a shame Sir Micheal Edwards couldn't have turned up sooner. Perhaps if he had, we could still have and be using some of the great British car names of old under British ownership.
What this car is missing is the Ferrari Dino headlights and front. It was a Corvette competitor in waiting with a potential Rover V8 P6BS running gear update at a later date.
The Morris 1800 was a lovely car in many ways but dad's drank oil as it grew old, say 4 quarts fuel for every quart oil! The suspension worked great, all those years, but eventually, he gave up and got himself a couple of SAABs, all without steering servo, even the 900 (a very early one).
I think I had a Matchbox toy of this car, it had BMC Pinafarina stamped underneath. as I grew from schoolboy to driver I realised I never actually seen one and had always wondered what it was. If I found it is the toy worth anything?
This is typical of the "don't fix it if it's not broken" mentality of the pipe smoking british car management. MG had to fight the likes of Issigonis all the time in their design decisions, ultimately stifling their engineering creativity.
There could not have been a 2.6 variant, as the longer stroke of the 1750 / 2600 variants would clash with the B Series derived transmission needed to handle the 6 pots increased torque. It is why the larger capacity 6 pot was only seen on Rwd applications.
I had a Sprite and I watched as it rusted away to nothing before my own eyes, they built it to corrode as rapidly as possible by putting pseudo-insulation material in areas that would get wet, this insulation material stayed wet and corrosion was almost as fast as the Corrosion king, the Renault Dauphine. The engine was good, brakes and steering OK and if they had bothered to do better rust-proofing there would be many more still on UK roads.
This MGD seems conceptually very close to the special that later became the AC 3000 ME. Could there be a connection? It definatly bears a passing resemblance too...
Only the Mk 1 Maxis had the dreadful cable gear change, the Mk 2s, like the one you show in the vid, had a much better rod change, and that made all the difference to driving them.
I never heard of the MGD, which is a surprise as I followed the motoring press, I agree the nose needed to be 8'' shorter, BTW my favourite Scalextric car was an Austin Healy 3000
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You can almost imagine the designers being told to stop working on this innovative and imaginative sports car, and to go and help the Allegro design team with the ashtrays. Then losing the will to live.
You're wrong. The MG design team were put in charge of Marina glove box interior trim for the East Africa market.
lol on both counts
.....they then went on to help put a dog shit brown interior in a Maxi, LMAO, I worked on all this junk when it was mainstream , started work in '77 aged 16 and was thrown right into it, fkn plastic screw in gear levers in Marinas, liver and "trunnions" front "legs" that seized up till they squeaked when turning the wheel, hilarious crap, all of it apart from the P5B Coupe, loved those
@@markholroyde9412 And best of all........THE SQUARE STEERING WHEEL....I worked at Jag at Castle Bromwich........I feel your pain 😂😂🤣🤣😂😂
@@hissingsidll750 Years ahead of its time . . . have you seen the steering wheel on a Red Bull F1 car? 😄
Brilliant work, Ed. That's the way car stories should be.
Yes i agree, a great look back at these cars. 🙂
This channel has gone from interestingly decent, to grippingly brilliant.
Thank you for your hard work.
Should really have his own TV channel to bring new content and interesting car news and retrospective for younger audiences to keep classics alive!!
A superb retrospective on a car I’d never heard of. Excellent work!
My heart is in my throat. And I am in shock. If these cars had come into fruition, there would be an MG dealership right now in NYC.
As long as they were built properly without the garish American plastic fenders! Stripping the chrome away from these cars is criminal! 😌 ^^
As owner of a 72 MGB GT, I'd love that 🙂 even tho I'm 700 miles away
Was dreaming of 6 cylinder MG, but reliability and the svene brought me to Porsche boxster, to arrive at the 911. These were wonderful times thoigh.
Look up the Rover BS coupe - what could have been!
Sorry, but it simply was rather ugly, didn't point to any attractive future.
Did my apprenticeship at a BL dealer from '72 and have to say the E series never gave us any trouble. The only warranty repair I can remember was re shimming tappets on a new one once. Same with diffs on Marinas and Sherpas, never repaired a single one; very different when I was at Ford at we were constantly rebuilding Salisbury axles. I won't mention Marina gearbox's though, as I rebuilt what seemed like millions of them. The Maxi was a cracking car but very dull although the fleets seemed to like them ( I think they got them cheap, and I cant see many reps being pleased to be handed the keys). I remember the motorways then and if you looked at lane three it would be full of reps in Cortinas going flat out!
A highly impressive piece of work, congratulations.
I’ve never heard of this car before but watching your video I feel like you’ve actually driven it so vivid are your descriptions! Another “if only” moment.
You know so so much! I'm ever so pleased I watched this. TY for sharing your expertise. You've a talent for presentation!! 😊
Great story, thanks for putting it together so well 😊
The suspension was fantastic, yet it is the interior space that marked the 1800 in mind. It was considered, and indeed appeared to be, a small car by Australian standards, and yet it seemed to be a Tardis once in either the front or rear seats.
Very interesting - as an ex-owner of an MGF, I feel glad they got there in the end. All the logic of mid engine and hydragas ride (and flawed but zingy and brilliant K-Series) translated into a masterpiece. Pity it was so underrated, I had an MX5 afterwards and hated it, sold it after 6 months!
First year I lived in Launceston I visited the Silverdome to view all of the Targa Tasmania cars. There must have been half a dozen MGFs, including a BRG example with white roof entered by a Japanese couple. That was the same year I saw a 6R4 for the only time and that thing screamed "purpose-built monster" at you. The F was a beautiful replacement for the B/C/R. One can hope that at some future juncture the Chinese will decide that heritage is a thing.
Anyone else notice the Jaguar XJS resemblance, around the rear window. Side butresses too, by the look of it too.
Now you mention it, yes, but I was thinking more Dino 206/246 due to the concave glass
I was thinking DeTomaso Pantera look... The MG D GT could have been a great car in some ways, of course not in planned engine/tranny way, but by 1970's, the Importer/Dealers killed off MG/Triumph sales in the giant USA market! They priced the weak engined/low reliability MGs and Triumphs in the USA at the same or higher prices than vastly more reliable and more powerful Chevrolet Corvettes... yes, problem was Corvettes were 4 times the car...
Although I still have my repainted Grabber Orange '75 MG Midget with added Buick 215" V8 and 5 speed BW T50 manual tranny...
It's a chibi Ferrari BB512
Growing up just east of Indianapolis, I was fascinated when Lotus brought their rear-engined 29 to the Brickyard. Beyond being interested in Lotus racing cars, I soon became aware of their road cars. Having a family requiring 4-doord and a backseat ruled out an Elan and Elite. The arrival of the mid-engined Lotus Europa got my attention, but again growing family made a 4-door sedan a necessity. As my finances improved, a Toyota MR-2 soon got my attention. Bought on in 1987. It was the most fun I've ever had driving.
While the Hydrolastic Suspension system was good, there wasn't enough damping from front-to-rear for my liking on my modded 1310cc Cooper S swapped Aussie Mini Clubman S. However, among many of the changes to make it a high-performance Mini, was to bolt a pair of front shock-brackets to the subframe (yes, the threaded-nuts were welded on the sub-frames regardless of which type of suspension!), but there weren't any places to bolt the shocks onto the suspension-arms, so it did require some drilling & tapping to fit the original Mini shock-studs to the arms! As my Mini was one of the last Aussie cars to have the Hydrolastic System, it was relatively easy to find the parts needed in 1980!
All right gang (those of us who’ve been watching for a long while), let’s all share these ever more awesome videos around and get Ed to 100k. If viewership grew at the rate of production quality and content, we would be there.
Thank you so much for another great British car history lesson.
A great video, Ed! It's sad to see what has happened to the MG name...
Fascinating and interesting as always! Great episode thanks Ed!
Ed, brilliant as always.
In an alternate MGD universe of my youth, schoolmate mate Roy would have been drawing MGDs everywhere and not TR7s, Steve would have bought an MGD not a B and I may have adored the D in the same way I did the X1/9 lol.
EX234 looks very similar to the early somewhat feminine looking Alfa Spyder. the AD070 picture used looks a bit like a Japanese shopped Marina Targa and some real similarities in the XJS back end styling to the MGD.
We Americans only drew TR8s... LOL! The MG D GT could have been a great car in some ways, of course not in planned engine/tranny way, but by 1970's, the Importer/Dealers killed off MG/Triumph sales in the giant USA market! They priced the weak engined/low reliability MGs and Triumphs in the USA at the same or higher prices than vastly more reliable and more powerful Chevrolet Corvettes... yes, problem was Corvettes were 4 times the car...
Although I still have my repainted Grabber Orange '75 MG Midget with added Buick 215" V8 and 5 speed BW T50 manual tranny...
@@buzzwaldron6195 a Midget with a V8!!!!! what a pocket-rocket...how do you stop it from spinning the rear?
@@thatcheapguy525 - Who wants to stop that? OK, drive it gently...
@@buzzwaldron6195 maybe fit it with Carlos Fandango wheels lol (fyi: Panama cigar advert)
Brilliant video as always Ed - thanks Steve
Look at the prototypes compared to the crap they turned out. It’s mind boggling what those people managers was up to
That's understandable, the MG D GT could have been a great car in some ways, of course not in planned engine/tranny way, but by 1970's, the Importer/Dealers killed off MG/Triumph sales in the giant USA market! They priced the weak engined/low reliability MGs and Triumphs in the USA at the same or higher prices than vastly more reliable and more powerful Chevrolet Corvettes... yes, problem was Corvettes were 4 times the car...
Although I still have my repainted Grabber Orange '75 MG Midget with added Buick 215" V8 and 5 speed BW T50 manual tranny...
The AC3000ME started out as the Diablo Project using a Maxi drive train in mid engined configuration. When AC took it over they lost years by redesigning it to take a Ford V6 3 litre and a bespoke gearbox. The resulting car was a gem. But the delay in getting it to market hampered the eventual success of the project.
Also available in the seventies were a number of mid engined "specialist" and kit cars using the Mini drivetrain in mid engined configuration. Cars such as the GTM, DeepSanderson and Unipower GT
A later car by GTM, The Libra, used Rover Metro drive trains in mid engined configuration. I heard that MG Rover had one for evaluation when designing the MGF.
I did enjoy watching this, I had 2 MGFs over the years, nice cars to drive, one got written off from a rear end shunt though. Had a Mazda MX5, ok but for the rear end stepping out in damp conditions, but my favourite was the Toyota MR2, a gem of a car, handled like a go-cart, really fun to drive, as all sports cars should be. But going back to the MGF, as a front engine car, it was a really good car and fun to drive, couldn't fault it.
The MGF isn't front engined, it's mid-engine. I agree with your conclusion though, it was a remarkably good car considering...
@@fredjones100 I;m quite aware of the MGF being mid-engined having owned 2 of them that is why I did not like the MX5, no weight on the rear end.
A shame... the MG D GT could have been a great car in some ways, of course not in planned engine/tranny way, but by 1970's, the Importer/Dealers killed off MG/Triumph sales in the giant USA market! They priced the weak engined/low reliability MGs and Triumphs in the USA at the same or higher prices than vastly more reliable and more powerful Chevrolet Corvettes... yes, problem was Corvettes were 4 times the car...
Although I still have my repainted Grabber Orange '75 MG Midget with added Buick 215" V8 and 5 speed BW T50 manual tranny... and an '85 Fiero for mid engined fun...
Well researched and presented in an interesting, informative and sober manner. For me at least, this is the way that car videos should be and it's much appreciated. One thing that always crops up in videos about BMC/BMH/BL is the shortage of money to develop new products. It seems that from the late 1950s onwards the management forgot that profits were essential to keeping the business healthy; the Mini being a good example of this, despite its innovative design.
Well the MG D GT could have been a great car in some ways, of course not in planned engine/tranny way, but by 1970's, the Importer/Dealers killed off MG/Triumph sales in the giant USA market! They priced the weak engined/low reliability MGs and Triumphs in the USA at the same or higher prices than vastly more reliable and more powerful Chevrolet Corvettes... yes, problem was Corvettes were 4 times the car...
Although I still have my repainted Grabber Orange '75 MG Midget with added Buick 215" V8 and 5 speed BW T50 manual tranny...
7:27 The interior shot of Ex234 shows what I think is a TR7 steering wheel.
The E series was originally intended to be a 1300, but in development it was decided that it wasn't pokey enough. The bores were already siamesed, so the only way to increase capacity was to lengthen the stroke to get 1500cc. That still was not enough, and it got lengthened again for 1750cc.
BTW the 2200 E6 engine was designed to bolt to the 4-speed sump and gearbox of the 1800cc B-series. As was the O-series when it came along. The Rover T-series 16v engine was based on the O block. I wonder if you could put the T engine on the fwd sump gearbox (actually it is BEHIND the engine on the 1800 Landcrab and Princess etc) and have a 140bhp 2 litre Landcrab.
How ironic that Ed never mentions the Lotus Europa in the background behind the MGB V8 as he leans on it during his presentation. He does mention the later Lotus Elite, but the Europa was a direct competitor to the proposed mid-engined MGD, being introduced in 1966 and produced through 1975, the period the MGD would have come online.
Ed you must excuse the cognitive difficulties of an old man for my total misunderstanding of the announcement of your expansion onto more social media platforms, which this idiot took as your excellent reviews being dropped from Utube.
So you have absolutely no idea just how delighted to have this MG sports care tour de force pop up today. Phew!
I hope to avoid undue sycophancy but you are THE go to site for such well researched, written and presented classic car reviews, delivered with confidence, boldness and with a touch of fun. Indeed you are nonpareil in the motoring firmament!
This history of MG sports cars was great and enjoyably which filled in the gaps of numbering about which I had no idea. Brilliant!
I look forward to my continued enjoyment of your site on Utube 'cos this old codger only has this technophobic choice!
Rob
😊
Great film. I'd never even heard of the MG-D prototype. One little thing about the E-Series engine; I could be wrong but I think the cylinder head was cast iron. Only that large finned rocker cover was alloy.
I had one in Morris 1500, and after I removed the rusty car from around it, many people ask my dad about the Datsun engine sitting in driveway.
Was a cast iron head. Very smooth engine.
Another reason the engine was designed like it was is that it kept the engine short for transverse mounting - this was particularly Tue for six cylinder engines like the Kimberley/Tasman.
Great video which is well informed. I have had Austin and Cooper Minis, Sprite, MGB,
Recently MGRV8.
Sadly the MX5 had a clean run globally because of the BMC "fisheads" at the top sadly.
Nice video mate, well presented and researched, lovely to see 1800s and Maxis, my Dad had both when I was a kid
I have just stumbled on your video. I remember seeing one of your first. You have come a very long way. This video is well-researched and professionally presented. Congratulations!
That MG DGT looks similar to the mockup for the Holden Torana GTR-X from 1970.
The TR7 looked ridiculous with 'Murican "5 MPH" bumpers.
Yes, the MG D GT could have been a great car in some ways, of course not in planned engine/tranny way, but by 1970's, the Importer/Dealers killed off MG/Triumph sales in the giant USA market! They priced the weak engined/low reliability MGs and Triumphs in the USA at the same or higher prices than vastly more reliable and more powerful Chevrolet Corvettes... yes, problem was Corvettes were 4 times the car...
Although I still have my repainted Grabber Orange '75 MG Midget with added Buick 215" V8 and 5 speed BW T50 manual tranny... my Midget looks better, more modern, smoother styled with its black rubber bumpers...
The MGR... the first works restomod. A very special car.
I never heard of it! Gorgeous automobile.
If the X1/9 and MR2 are any indication, it could have been a success. But knowing BL I'm certain they would have found a way of messing up if they would have produced it.
Already messed up, the MG D GT could have been a great car in some ways, of course not in planned engine/tranny way, but by 1970's, the Importer/Dealers killed off MG/Triumph sales in the giant USA market! They priced the weak engined/low reliability MGs and Triumphs in the USA at the same or higher prices than vastly more reliable and more powerful Chevrolet Corvettes... yes, problem was Corvettes were 4 times the car...
Although I still have my repainted Grabber Orange '75 MG Midget with added Buick 215" V8 and 5 speed BW T50 manual tranny...
I love it: the styling looks so beautiful for an affordable mid-engine car. I can't think of a sportd car in it's class that has the same looks: maybe a Matra Murena for the front, and a Lancia Montecarlo for the rear, but it's not exact.
Thanks great work, that was a good Sunday morning viewing!👍👌
Great video and story. Look forward to you doing a story on the Rover SDI. I had 3 and still the cars I have enjoyed owning the most. For younger readers, if you think the SDI still looks modern today, can you imagine the impact it had amongst the boxey cars of the 70's
Same story over and over with BL. They did have some interesting developments in the pipeline but then they were cancelled by management because the current range was selling well enough. It is like they never heard of product development.
Of course the MG D GT could have been a great car in some ways, but of course not in planned engine/tranny way, and by 1970's, the Importer/Dealers killed off MG/Triumph sales in the giant USA market! They priced the weak engined/low reliability MGs and Triumphs in the USA at the same or higher prices than vastly more reliable and more powerful Chevrolet Corvettes... yes, problem was Corvettes were 4 times the car...
Although I still have my repainted Grabber Orange '75 MG Midget with added Buick 215" V8 and 5 speed BW T50 manual tranny...
As a senior development engineer in Engineering department at MG working with Syd Enever, Roy Brocklehurst, Terry M, Don H , Alec Henry et al.
I had some input into the New concept. It had a Central mounted DeDion axle, transverse Fuel tank and the 1750 Maxi power unit.
Early tests at chicane
Dunlop test area Fradley aerodrome were good .Although it was a bit shaky.
The photo is interesting as I have no idea where or when this car was made into thus condition. It was engineered to compete and expand with MG V8 NEVER A BESTSELLER OR TYPICALLY MG. At the time Stokes and his cohorts were influencing most Engineering activities, including the MG air bag development To qoute " I'm not having those things in any of my cars ! Stop work on them today." Sad time when the company was closed.
Your videos get better and better. So much information here and obviously you've done your research. Having owned a Eunos Roadster - 12 years old when I bought it - over three years I put up a lot of miles - over 100 thousand and noting fell off - unlike the 18 month old Spitfire I'd bought may ears earlier. I always admired the MGB - the GT was beautiful but it would have had to be a roadster for me but it was always just a little out of my reach. I imagine though that it would have been closer to the Triumph than the Mazda in terms of reliability and usability as a daily driver. The MX5, although in several actual incarnations has sold more than four times the MG|B , which makes it the best selling car in the world.
A mg r v8 was pretty well sorted out, I did a fair few mods on mgbs fitting mg r v8 bits like fitting complete front and rear suspension and brakes. It completely changed the vehicle, just wish the car was just a bit lighter.
Very informative and eloquent presentation, if only the trade unions hadn’t been hell bent on ruining the UK car industry.
No - A fish first rots from the head, thence down.
Plus the MG D GT could have been a great car in some ways, of course not in planned engine/tranny way, but by 1970's, the Importer/Dealers killed off MG/Triumph sales in the giant USA market! They priced the weak engined/low reliability MGs and Triumphs in the USA at the same or higher prices than vastly more reliable and more powerful Chevrolet Corvettes... yes, problem was Corvettes were 4 times the car...
Although I still have my repainted Grabber Orange '75 MG Midget with added Buick 215" V8 and 5 speed BW T50 manual tranny...
Superb work stitching the story together, ironic that the stop gap V8 MGB is the most sought after......were brilliant without the committees involved.
Both of the MGB replacements are great looking cars, the earlier green one is very reminiscent of the Alfa Romeo Spider, and the later one is just plain stunning for 1970.
Quality script, faultlessly narrated, and a compelling story
The rear has shades of a properly designed Lotus Europa.
(I firmly think that the Europa is a good looking car but it could have been a beautiful one)
The views being shown from the rear 3/4 show absolutely beautiful lines.
Fantastic video and a tragedy that this beauty never saw the tarmac.
EX 234 - what a beautiful car. Shades of Afla Romeo Spyder and Sunbeam Alpine for sure, but it could have been a world beater. Difficult to imagine it's from the same umbrella organisation that gave us the Allegro.
there was also the Diablo concept with a Maxi engine which became the AC 3000- that would have been a very cool MGD !
A very interesting video, thanks for taking so much trouble. You forgot to mention that Leyland management were so inept and the financial controls were absolutely appalling. Consequently and with the aid of the disruptive trade unions, the quality control and build quality were unbelievably bad.
BMC/Leyland had no idea of the costings of their vehicles and made very little money, even on the minis. Ford, on the other hand, knew to the penny what their vehicles would cost before they started production plus how much profit they would make. There was a storey at the time that when the mini came out Ford senior management phoned up their BMC/Leyland opposite numbers to tell them they would not make any money out of the mini.
On the subject of quality, the early minis and 1100's were so badly put together they used to leak like sieves. A friend in the early 60's bought a new mini and when it leaked returned it to the dealer to be rectified. The factory recommended solution was to punch some holes in the floor to let the water out. That was the mentality of the manufacturer.
We had a works visit to the rover factory, at the end of the tour they had a mgr v8 on display next to the prototype MGF, as I remember they said most of the mgr’s were being exported to japan
Understandable, the MG D GT could have been a great car in some ways, of course not in planned engine/tranny way, but by 1970's, the Importer/Dealers killed off MG/Triumph sales in the giant USA market! They priced the weak engined/low reliability MGs and Triumphs in the USA at the same or higher prices than vastly more reliable and more powerful Chevrolet Corvettes... yes, problem was Corvettes were 4 times the car...
Although I still have my repainted Grabber Orange '75 MG Midget with added Buick 215" V8 and 5 speed BW T50 manual tranny...
Thanks for reply👍
I went to look at the MGF at its launch in my local dealership with my Dad and brother. As an MG midget owner really wanted to like it and was in the market for a new sports car.
The salesman at the dealer obviously thought I was too young as I looked a young 20 despite being nearly 30 and focused on my dad and brother pretty much ignoring my entirely. Dad and brother got a test drive and I didn’t. I got to sit in it and was totally disappointed as it’s saying position was very saloon like not sports car at all. When the salesman was told by my dad that he should really be focusing on me since I was the person in the position of buying one. However by then I was not interested as it was more expensive than MX 5 and wasn’t in the same level.
I told him it was too expensive, too slow and the driving position was like sitting on a sofa.
Ended up buying a Caterham 7 and early on had a bit of a burn up on the road leaving an MG F for dead while I was running it in on
Correct, the MG D GT could have been a great car in some ways, of course not in planned engine/tranny way, but by 1970's, the Importer/Dealers killed off MG/Triumph sales in the giant USA market! They priced the weak engined/low reliability MGs and Triumphs in the USA at the same or higher prices than vastly more reliable and more powerful Chevrolet Corvettes... yes, problem was Corvettes were 4 times the car...
Although I still have my repainted Grabber Orange '75 MG Midget with added Buick 215" V8 and 5 speed BW T50 manual tranny...
Thanks muchly for another corking feature, Ed - superb!
Here's my 6d-worth: (i). That corporate attitude of "That'll do! - it's still selling well, so we'll just rest on our laurels" was in such stark contrast to most other free-market/capitalist manufacturers and was the equivalent of signing a Death Warrant a couple o'years in advance.
(ii). Those FLYING BUTTRESSES HAD TO BE THERE in order to allow for such a TALL engine, but were an excellent way to mask the engine's height (its 'weakness') - IMHO, an excellent design master-stroke!
- I'd speculate that the mid-engined ADO21 was probably TOO radical, for the staid Corporate SUITS, I suspect.
AFAIK, Ray Brocklehurst was primarily responsible for following through/developing its design - the actual concept sketch having come from the great Harris Mann, in mid-1969 - admittedly borrowing somewhat from the Ferrari Dino 206GT.
- The sad ending of this MGD was that it was completed and presented in late 1970 but then 'killed' in December of that year, being crushed shortly thereafter.
Brilliant video - well done, i'm now a dedicated fan.
Why no mention of the Rover P6 BS, V8 mid-engine car designed by Spen King?
The issue with ADO21 was that it didn't have huge support within MG itself. I was astounded to discover this when I interviewed the late Don Hayter, but the car would've had poor interior room and little luggage capacity (less than the MGB GT) - a problem for the North American market. Another issue were the engines, because whilst the E-series had a five-speed gearbox, the larger faster E6 only ever had a four-speed gearbox.
I'm also pretty sure that ADO21 was only ever intended to run with steel suspension. The prototype certainly was running coils in the photos which Hayter had - featuring its de Dion rear set-up. Also, if BLMC were to run something more exotic then it's doubtful that it would've opted for Hydrolastic given the car's likely launch date. By 1972 BLMC had moved to Hydragas for the Allegro and it would appear in the 1975 Austin-Morris 18/22s.
Completely understand your passion for this car though. So close to greatness.
Similar to the Fiero in the States, bit of a miracle it was made, had pretty solid sales, but was held down because of the Firebird, Camaro, the Corvette. Can't have a more ckever car taking sales from other divisions.
You would have thought that the law of averages would have helpful Leyland get one greatest hit from all the prototypes they churned out over the years. Then, I suppose we have to take sod's law into account. Great job Ed.
Very good and entertaining analysis! Your presentations have really matured over the years - excellent!
Good video, thank you! Interesting that Gilbern also tried to build a mid engined car with the Maxi engine but they got as far as a prototype (which has now been completed).
Looking forward to more interesting videos from you.
Very pretty car. I could see someone making a newer version with fender flares, and better tail-lights.
As a concept, this looks stunning. Bang up to date for 1971. What a shame. 😕
16:08 The Matra 530 (Matra _Sports_ 530 more precisely) has been released in 1967, the Fiat X1/9 has been released in 1972.
In the pre-interent era a magazine reviewer described the braking in a B as feeling like "Shit, I've just hit a brick wall". 🤣
No one seems to remember that the 2200 and 2600 sixes were built in Australia. The east/west Tasman and Kimberley. Both cars upgraded 1800s. They were 5 speed, fast and handled like a dream but a bit small for Australian distances. I had the 2600 version in NZ but spare parts had dried up, not a usual BLMC problem.
Nicely narrated!👍
The only BL car from that era that I had extensive experience with was the Dolomite Sprint. Lovely car. Give it fuel injection, better rear suspension bushes and fix the wandering head gasket problems and it could have been a world beater.
Another superb delivery of a professionaI video. 👍
I thought you might have mentioned the Austin Zanda which was also to use a rear mounted Maxi engine. A lovely looking concept car by Harris Mann (glass-fibre mock-up at Gaydon). The idea being later revived as the ADO21.
I seem to remember that later Maxis and all 1750 versions ditched the cable gear linkage and replaced it with rods.
That would've been a beautiful car. As an American, I'm envious of British sport cars of the 60's. I would love to have an old MG, Triump, or any other of those beautiful cars
So you probably know the MG D GT could have been a great car in some ways, of course not in planned engine/tranny way, but by 1970's, the Importer/Dealers killed off MG/Triumph sales in the giant USA market! They priced the weak engined/low reliability MGs and Triumphs in the USA at the same or higher prices than vastly more reliable and more powerful Chevrolet Corvettes... yes, problem was Corvettes were 4 times the car...
Although I still have my repainted Grabber Orange '75 MG Midget with added Buick 215" V8 and 5 speed BW T50 manual tranny... plus '85 Fiero mid engine sports car...
The British sports car engine development missed an important heart beat way back in the 1930s when several companies asked for government for money to compete against Germany and Italy whose company’s had the full backing of Hitler and Mussolini. In an ironic twist you wouldn’t see any Porsche’s, Ferrari’s or even Lamborghini’s today if it wasn’t for the early British racers who where dominating sports car racing at the time and who stimulated the desire to win.
Fantastic video. Makes me want to take my 70 B out today!
The weather looks ok Roger so go for it my friend! 😁👍🇬🇧
Take that B out! The MG D GT could have been a great car in some ways, of course not in planned engine/tranny way, but by 1970's, the Importer/Dealers killed off MG/Triumph sales in the giant USA market! They priced the weak engined/low reliability MGs and Triumphs in the USA at the same or higher prices than vastly more reliable and more powerful Chevrolet Corvettes... yes, problem was Corvettes were 4 times the car...
Although I still have my repainted Grabber Orange '75 MG Midget with added Buick 215" V8 and 5 speed BW T50 manual tranny...
@@buzzwaldron6195 (yes ironically almost 90% of those classic Brit sports cars were sold in the States and Canada). - They never really caught on much in the U.K. and subsequently RHD models are much the rarer ones now…
@@philtucker1224 - MGA and XK-E weren't even allowed to be sold in UK at first as the UK wanted foreign money to come in to pay for WWII debts...
@@buzzwaldron6195 yes that’s right. (There were far more Triumph TRs just in Canada alone than were ever sold in the U.K.)…
Very well done documentary,Thanks for sharing
It used to be said that the tension in BMC/bl between triumph and mg often meant that mg got the rotten end of the stick.
They should have simply built and sold the MGD as both an MG and a Triumph with slight styling differences... The MG D GT could have been a great car in some ways, of course not in planned engine/tranny way, but by 1970's, the Importer/Dealers killed off MG/Triumph sales in the giant USA market! They priced the weak engined/low reliability MGs and Triumphs in the USA at the same or higher prices than vastly more reliable and more powerful Chevrolet Corvettes... yes, problem was Corvettes were 4 times the car...
Although I still have my repainted Grabber Orange '75 MG Midget with added Buick 215" V8 and 5 speed BW T50 manual tranny...
Great video, once again! Despite it's looks and innovations, the MG DGT with a Maxi engine would have been an unpleasant sports car. BL would NEVER have been capable of developing it successfully. Moreover, THE market for British sports cars was the USA but it was niche and the dealer network small and thinly spread. The TR7 was definitely right in those circumstances as it was understandable by both owners and mechanics. Unfortunately, the Japanese had fun cars too that were more reliable and better built than UK equivalents. It's very, very hard making cars that people really want to buy........
Time we put away those rose-tinted specs.
What would the Japanese have done if the 240Z & 510 had Real competition?
Fascinating. That crusty Alfa GTV illustrates another issue with IRS. This is the tendancy to mount the rear disc brakes inboard near the final drive. This is good for unsprung weight, but poor for sevicing. Jaguar and Rover please note. Actually, for a road car, which lives with road filth, it is better to have outboard drum rear brakes. The MGD could also have had a bigger brother with the Rover P6BS, if only... BMC ceased in 1966, and MG met Jaguar, via BMH, before meeting Triumph via Leyland in 1968.
Wow, that drawing doesn't do it any favors. Looks like it has rear steer.
And the rear wheels on the mock up are way to skinny & inset. Who would think that looks good? Great vid!
Another incredibly interesting presentation... Again very well researched... Loved the old video footage... Thank you... Roger....
Superb . We have countless cars available from our community. Come and take your pick. All the best, Adam
It`s hard to imagine anything from England matching the delicate elegance of the Fiat x19, but still, the potential was there
Amazing video having grown up being a car enthusiast as a child & my father too the history is fascinating tkx
I think one big problem for BL was that they had projects like MG D which were about prestige when really the general public wanted reliable "bread and butter".
Wet informative and enjoyable video. Thank you.
Great video as always Ed! 👍
The cable change was replaced by a rod change on the Maxi by the time MGD would have been launched. But would the 5 speed gearbox be able to handle an E6 engine? It wasn't used in the Princess
Interesting video, I was looking to buy an MGR apparently they only made one in old English white.
MG/Triumph, etc, in the USA were, as you say, doomed by reputation. Even the best-build British cars were/are in no way up to the standards required for the USA, the build quality, power, rust, etc. were nowhere near enough.
Another excellent vid that you managed to knock out of the park! Why is it whenever I watch any vid involving BMC/BL it ultimately tracks the useless decisions made by the incompetent management. Yeah I know about Red Robbo and his mates. I even remember watching the BBC news where he was shouting at the workers calling for another strike and out they went purely on a show of hands. But I can't help feeling that he would not have existed if it weren't for the utterly useless management that the workforce was saddled with .... 23:52 23:52
@frglee I rather think it was more like director room arguments saying, no people might like the MG range more but it's the Triumph name that must succeed over it. The starving of imports into North America for months and refusal to supply MGBs to try and ensure that the TR7 would have a successful launch was evidence of that. Let's not also forget the wonderful introduction of the TR8 and all the reliability and fire issues with the Triumph models. The MG name should have survived long after the Triumph when it came to sports cars. There was at least some Karma when the Triumph Spitfire production stopped before the MG Midget. For all the boardroom determination that went on to try and promote the demise of MG and support Triumph, it was actually Spitfire that went first.
As someone who loved my British built MG Midgets in my youth, at one point I had two, one I was driving and a second I was renovating (on the cheap as most MG enthusiasts did, sourcing many parts from MG International scrap yard in Birkenhead) I drove Midgets for over 10 years and was an ardent supporter and believer in British cars. I only gave up my Midget because as the wife didn't drive and I then had my brand new Halewood built Black XR3i (with alloy wheels!), I really couldn't justify it anymore and didn't have the space.
I always hoped there would be a new small MG Midget, not the +150lb rubber bumpered 1500 Spitfire engine version but a proper modern small MG. I thought the Midget was a lovely looking car and the only other car that caught my eye back then was the Fiat X19 'Lido' metallic black with almost white interior but I couldn't bring myself to even contemplate buying a foreign car!
I never realised, or perhaps I'd forgotten MG had plans for the MGD GT, at the right price that could have been the perfect car but perhaps it was no surprise that it never made production when you consider MGB GT V8 only made production because Costello were upgrading 1800 MGBs and couldn't turn them out fast enough. BL even refused to supply them with HC engines and only allowed them access to the LC variants, which rather demonstrated just how determined those in control of BL were to press the self destruct button. A car company and a heritage that could have done so much more if only we had a leadership/management that was fit for purpose. It's a shame Sir Micheal Edwards couldn't have turned up sooner. Perhaps if he had, we could still have and be using some of the great British car names of old under British ownership.
50,000 subscribers. Pretty sure it will be a large multiple of that in times to come.
Terrific content. Always informative and fun.
What this car is missing is the Ferrari Dino headlights and front. It was a Corvette competitor in waiting with a potential Rover V8 P6BS running gear update at a later date.
The Morris 1800 was a lovely car in many ways but dad's drank oil as it grew old, say 4 quarts fuel for every quart oil! The suspension worked great, all those years, but eventually, he gave up and got himself a couple of SAABs, all without steering servo, even the 900 (a very early one).
I think I had a Matchbox toy of this car, it had BMC Pinafarina stamped underneath. as I grew from schoolboy to driver I realised I never actually seen one and had always wondered what it was. If I found it is the toy worth anything?
This is typical of the "don't fix it if it's not broken" mentality of the pipe smoking british car management. MG had to fight the likes of Issigonis all the time in their design decisions, ultimately stifling their engineering creativity.
There could not have been a 2.6 variant, as the longer stroke of the 1750 / 2600 variants would clash with the B Series derived transmission needed to handle the 6 pots increased torque. It is why the larger capacity 6 pot was only seen on Rwd applications.
I had a Sprite and I watched as it rusted away to nothing before my own eyes, they built it to corrode as rapidly as possible by putting pseudo-insulation material in areas that would get wet, this insulation material stayed wet and corrosion was almost as fast as the Corrosion king, the Renault Dauphine. The engine was good, brakes and steering OK and if they had bothered to do better rust-proofing there would be many more still on UK roads.
MG.EXE? Sounds like a racing game for MS-Dos.
This MGD seems conceptually very close to the special that later became the AC 3000 ME. Could there be a connection? It definatly bears a passing resemblance too...
Only the Mk 1 Maxis had the dreadful cable gear change, the Mk 2s, like the one you show in the vid, had a much better rod change, and that made all the difference to driving them.
The styling looks derivative of the OTAS of the early 70s, one of which I briefly owned. Tiny, but a lot of fun!
I never heard of the MGD, which is a surprise as I followed the motoring press, I agree the nose needed to be 8'' shorter, BTW my favourite Scalextric car was an Austin Healy 3000