Why C5 Corvette front park lamps suck

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  • Опубликовано: 6 окт 2024

Комментарии • 264

  • @craigswanson7478
    @craigswanson7478 2 года назад +15

    I just happened to install those on my car three hours ago LOL. I personally would stick with a clear because the lights will be brighter. Keep up the good work.

  • @browningbelgium2326
    @browningbelgium2326 2 года назад +21

    Hey Lyle, the smoked lights would make your Vette have an attitude unlike before. Black Vette with smoked lights is a winning combo. You won't regret it and you're giving us C5 owners something to really think about. Tks!!

    • @goldenknight007
      @goldenknight007 2 года назад

      I agree it looks cool but dimming your safety gear surrounded by idiot drivers is a recipie for getting hit. Just like a motorcycle, if you value what you have and your health it's better to be visible. Looks aren't everything.

    • @jkeithv65
      @jkeithv65 2 года назад +4

      @@goldenknight007 I have the smoked and they are still plenty bright, though I'm sure they are a bit dimmer than the clear. But my yellow Vette helps make up for that lol 🙂

    • @brianschmitz4156
      @brianschmitz4156 2 года назад +1

      @@jkeithv65 I have been going back and forth on smoked or clear for my yellow. Would love to seea picture of how they look

    • @jkeithv65
      @jkeithv65 2 года назад +2

      @@brianschmitz4156 well if I could figure out how to attach a picture to this I would send you a couple LOL

  • @kennethmiller5543
    @kennethmiller5543 2 года назад +9

    Hi Lyle and thanks for the repairs C&S has done to my C5 over the years. Always repaired with OEM connectors and fasteners no matter how small every detail is OEM. I will be ordering a set of these front multi function running lights for my C5 to have on hand when the 3rd set the car sports melts away. My C5 is a vert and that’s why I keep a replacement set of sun-visors in the garage. A million thanks C&S Corvette and crew who have the parts and talent,advice and experience for any Corvette repair.

  • @chadatkinson3224
    @chadatkinson3224 26 дней назад

    Just ordered the front side and rear yesterday. Im not normally a person to change out oem lights. But these definitely do look to give the c5 an up to date modern look.

  • @ThatCorvetteGuy
    @ThatCorvetteGuy 2 года назад +3

    This explains so much with the light problem I'm having. I remember roughly a year ago I replaced both blinker lights because they were both having issues. I noticed while replacing them that both connectors for the lights, one more than the other, are actually burnt and slightly melted. I was always wondering how that happened. Now one of the lights has gone out again. I'm so glad you made this video. Now I know what to do to fix this issue.

  • @plcc07777
    @plcc07777 Год назад +1

    I was visiting friends in Sarasota over the weekend and took that opportunity to visit C&S Corvettes. They installed a set of the smoked front lamps on my yellow C5 while I browsed their showroom.
    WOW what an improvement these lights are !!! 👍
    I very highly recommend this upgrade to all C5 owners.
    Lyle and his team of expert Corvette techs never disappoint. 👍

  • @TheSurfRyder
    @TheSurfRyder 2 года назад +2

    Nice! A great option and doesn’t come across as a commercial.
    C&S keeping it real

  • @jeidm9936
    @jeidm9936 2 года назад +3

    Thanks! Please post more for the C5 community. The black one looks cool 😎

  • @jkeithv65
    @jkeithv65 2 года назад +10

    Lyle, I just added those turn signals and side markers to my yellow C5 convertible a couple weeks ago. I love them! You gave a great description of them, and I was excited to see this video actually talking about what I had just bought, because I respect your decisions on what to do with these cars. I also got the matching laser third brake light which really ties in with the side markers. And then added the Halo tail lights, which I also previously had on a red C5 Z06.
    It's hard to say whether you should go with clear or smoked. I understand the smoke would tie in with the black car and look sharp, but I believe it does dim the output a little bit. Plus with your silver screens on the front, those clear lamps kind of tie in with that. If I did the smoke lamps I would paint the screens black. Did that on my Z. Since you have a smoke one there, you could do a comparison video showing the difference both when they're off and the brightness difference when they're on (maybe just do 1 side), though that's hard to capture on video. Thank you for all your great advice!

    • @papagigo1
      @papagigo1 2 года назад

      @jkeithv65 , were they difficult to swap out ?

  • @jdmvette
    @jdmvette 2 года назад +2

    5:39 you got some hyperflash energy going
    Another vote for the smoked w/black C5.
    Also get the matching laser tail lights & laser 3rd brake for the whole package

    • @danielk6365
      @danielk6365 2 года назад

      where did you find the tail lights and brake light? i couldnt find them on the website

  • @jivadaya6439
    @jivadaya6439 2 года назад +1

    I would stick with these clear lights. Very classy - LOVE your car :D

  • @chemicalspore
    @chemicalspore Год назад

    Ive taken the bezel off the headlight to replace the bulb. Pain in the rear, anyway you replace it.

  • @craiglambert3082
    @craiglambert3082 3 месяца назад

    Hey Lyle; I definitely would go with the smoked lenses on the front.
    Looks cool!

  • @bobyates6435
    @bobyates6435 2 года назад +1

    If you have fog lights. When you turn them on at the turn signal lever the parking lights dim. I drive with my fog lights on all the time. Hopefully I won't have the problem.😎

  • @OVERKILL_PINBALL
    @OVERKILL_PINBALL 2 года назад +9

    You should definitely go with the smoked IMO
    Also the "louver" (for lack of a better term) mod for the tail lights looks amazing.. the black version, not the chrome.

  • @bigbenisdaman
    @bigbenisdaman 2 года назад +1

    It's a rabbithole, I went to new LED headlights, then before long got all the Vettlights smoked...they look great. Though the Taillights apparently had a revision a month after I ordered where you can change the halo, mine's hamburger only.

  • @davegregg1512
    @davegregg1512 2 года назад

    Thanks Lyle! When my DRL’s failed taking the sockets, the housing AND the pig tails, the solution was pretty simple: I drive with the DRL’s OFF with the park lights and fog lights On. I’ve had a real hard look at this product and I just love it!!! Thanks for making my decision to purchase a whole lot easier!!!

  • @franciskatzenback3010
    @franciskatzenback3010 2 года назад

    Just wanted thank you for all the information on c5's. I finally found my perfect one. Thanks for all the help in my search

  • @darrylsjodin7184
    @darrylsjodin7184 2 года назад

    I have the same black Z06 and went through the touchless car wash and both front bulbs blew up 😮. Thanks for the info!

  • @FredFlintstone21
    @FredFlintstone21 Год назад

    Wow! Awesome lights! Thanks for sharing Lyle!

  • @pscurti350
    @pscurti350 2 года назад +1

    I just placed my order, Your videos are really helpful, keep em coming.

  • @supersoldier05
    @supersoldier05 2 года назад

    Replaced my parking lamps with a set from Amazon and ran LED bulbs. No more issues 👌🏻

  • @retrobear9367
    @retrobear9367 9 месяцев назад

    The 1st thing I changed when I bought my c5. Was the corners. I bought a smoked/amber setup and went with led bulbs. But, Ive been debating those front lenses for a while now. I do have led tails and sides and some Knight Drive sleepy eyes. Ive been hoping someone would come up with another style since ive seen these on a few cars. But I may go ahead and just snag a set of these. They'd go nicely with my other lights. Oh and yes. Hyper flash harness is a must. I'm in Delaware. Would not pass inspection without it install. Luckily it takes like 5 min to pop in. Great review thank you.

  • @atlayank
    @atlayank 2 года назад

    I went with the smoked all the way around on my pewter C5 and am very happy.

  • @marcanthony6038
    @marcanthony6038 2 года назад

    I went with the clear, and I love these things. I bought them right before you went to Carlisle. Thought I would have to wait until you got back, no such thing happened. It was a speedy delivery, you must have dropped them off on the way there. Anyway, thanks again for the excellent customer service, because these things are awesome. They change the looks of the car, wether they are on, or off. I got the whole package, and it works great. I found them pretty easy to install. I found a burnt turn signal/brake light bulb when I did the side markers. I never had the tail lights off before. All kinda room in there to hide stuff. Im going to hide my BB Fusion contols in there. I learned some things there, and it was an all around pleasant experience installing these...I couldnt be happier with a purchase. Thanks again Lyle.

  • @kallo182
    @kallo182 2 года назад +1

    Wow, nice one. I would buy it.
    Sadly, changing "Light Things" is fully Illegal in Germany : (

  • @kenhigginbotham4989
    @kenhigginbotham4989 2 года назад

    Thank you Lyle, I'm going to purchase the package and have them installed

  • @gregkistner1955
    @gregkistner1955 2 года назад

    Man! That's a nice idea! Makes the Corvette hip and cool!

  • @robertwolfe8680
    @robertwolfe8680 Год назад

    You give great advice and excellent explanations. I thank you for all things that I have learned.

  • @jeffpfeifle8240
    @jeffpfeifle8240 Год назад

    I installed the smoked and they look and work great

  • @regows123
    @regows123 2 года назад

    Just ordered a set of smoked park lamps for my 2004 Z06. Thank you for the review on your site. Love the information you provide.

  • @justkickinit6878
    @justkickinit6878 2 года назад

    Just pulled the trigger on the pkg in Smoke for my 02' mill yellow vert. Thanks Lyle, always pleased with your craft! The smoked would give your black C5 that flow that it lacks with the clear, IMHO.

  • @Dademold
    @Dademold 2 года назад

    Thanks, great video wish you guys were in Miami to get work done. anybody you recommend here thanks again.

  • @wizardwingman3654
    @wizardwingman3654 Год назад

    Great explanation Lyle. I installed the smoked lens corner lights and side markers on my Machine Silver 04Z, I’m really liking the different look and updated lighting. I will change out the taillights and third brake light next.

    • @lyleaulwurm9486
      @lyleaulwurm9486 Год назад

      Cool!! Let me know when you are ready for Phase II! :) Lyle

  • @shirmworm
    @shirmworm 2 года назад

    Use the smoked on your C5. Thanks for sharing the product!

  • @alexpartridge807
    @alexpartridge807 2 года назад

    Great video, just ordered these for my 04 LeMans edition convertible.

  • @WarriorsPhoto
    @WarriorsPhoto 2 года назад +1

    Lyle, what I am excited about is your good taste. That Black Z06 is pristine. These new LED light only made it gooder. You're a good man for helping us out like this.
    See you in a week.
    Oh what kind of tires are you running on that lady? I can't find the factory front size anymore.

  • @Mazak23
    @Mazak23 2 года назад +1

    I’m hoping to get a 2003 Z06 like yours next year when the used car market cools off. I learn so much watching your videos. I never thought about the stock turn signal housing melting like that. I’m seriously considering these when I get my Z06. I’d prefer the clear lenses myself, but since your Z06 is black, the smoked lenses should blend nicely on your car.

  • @robmunger922
    @robmunger922 2 года назад

    Those are amazing I like the clear on your car Lyle. Great video

  • @edstingray3828
    @edstingray3828 2 года назад

    Man I wish I knew this earlier. I've replaced front left a 100 times after a rain or wash. I remove the guard from the headlight. I go in from the top. As course the fore arm take a beating. Yes, I've replace the whole housing also. I still own a 72 . I rejoy all aspects of your sight.

  • @dalejernberg3550
    @dalejernberg3550 2 года назад +5

    Good stuff (as usual), so tired of replacing the DRL lamps on my Z06, had looked into LEDs before but didn't want to deal with rewiring for hyperflash. Having replaced just the lenses on a previous c5, it seems that your package is a great deal and definitely considering it.

    • @jaystrongsgarage3913
      @jaystrongsgarage3913 2 года назад +1

      You dont have to rewire , they make a plug and play hyper flash harness

    • @dalejernberg3550
      @dalejernberg3550 2 года назад +1

      @@jaystrongsgarage3913 Yes, they did but it was not as easy to deal with as the harness that Lyle is selling.

    • @shaunwalsh85
      @shaunwalsh85 Год назад

      I just pulled the fuse. I forget which one it is, but it’s easy peasy. Looks so much cleaner with no DRL’s on.

  • @RobertShingledecker
    @RobertShingledecker 2 года назад

    Lyle, Perfect. I was looking forward to seeing you at Carlisle, with questions about melted dlr housings on my 03.
    Ordered your kit, looking forward to installing it when we return from our road trip next week. Thank you!

    • @RobertShingledecker
      @RobertShingledecker 2 года назад

      Installed... Love 'em. Now, what are you doing for the fog lamps? Are you reviewing /selling the led bulbs?

  • @carllyth3815
    @carllyth3815 Год назад

    Thanks Lyle, ordered today

  • @OMEGATECH
    @OMEGATECH 2 года назад

    Your right they do!, the ones on your look awesome!!!💯

  • @doug2993
    @doug2993 2 года назад

    Yeah, I'm getting really good at changing them and tweaking to get it to come back on. I use the rear of the vehicle in front of me to see if they are still working.

  • @hipsterdoofus52
    @hipsterdoofus52 2 года назад

    I gotta say, I like the look of the smoke lens. I would love to see them. Interested for my C5!

  • @dandilts3213
    @dandilts3213 Год назад

    I think the smoked lenses will look real good on your Z06. That’s my 2 cents worth. I will be getting the lighting kit for my 03 after I’m done with the headlight conversion. Thank you for your time & efforts testing these.

  • @thehomer5913
    @thehomer5913 2 года назад

    Sheesh, now I wonder how the smoked lenses would look on my cherry red 2003. Great tip!

  • @thyubernoob
    @thyubernoob Год назад

    I'm a big fan of all blacked out, wheels too!

  • @anthonycorrado4574
    @anthonycorrado4574 2 месяца назад

    Awesome product. Get the black ones😂. Nice ZO6

  • @yzfdunc
    @yzfdunc 2 года назад

    Smoked Lyle. I've got a black C5 and I've smoked the lights. Looks meaner 👍

  • @nworbydnar
    @nworbydnar 2 года назад

    The goatee looks great.
    Good idea!!

  • @KevinGilpin-qk6nq
    @KevinGilpin-qk6nq 6 месяцев назад

    Definitely change to the smoked lenses!!! Cars black and they would tie the car together better than the clear up front and smoked in rear!

  • @shoopdj
    @shoopdj 2 года назад

    The smoked glass park lights are the best! They go great with the black finish of the car.

  • @marcanthony6038
    @marcanthony6038 2 года назад +1

    I would like to see your car if you put the smoked ones on. My car is black also, and I do think the chrome backing looks great against the black. Super clean. Im not sure if I want smoked because I worry it will hide the cars natural lines, and contour in the front. It would look too much like the 89 Firebird I had years ago. This is going to be a tough decision, but Im going to have to buy one or the other. I agree the old lenses are a bit dated. I dont like the heat they generate either. You sold me on these ones I think. Thanks for the video.

  • @stephendibari5010
    @stephendibari5010 2 года назад +2

    Great video Lyle. I would stay with the clear lenses in front. For me I would want all the brightness they can offer; function over beauty.
    That’s a great package deal too
    After watching this video it’s making me want a C5 Z06 more than what im currently saving for a 2017 C7 Stingray non z51 manual !
    I really need to test drive both !

    • @jkeithv65
      @jkeithv65 2 года назад +1

      I've had both. And while I do love the looks of the c5s and some of the Retro coolness like the pop-up headlights, the improved handling and technology and especially the interior of the C7 is a world apart.

    • @stephendibari5010
      @stephendibari5010 2 года назад

      @@jkeithv65 I hear you 💯. I feel the same way on all your points! Yeah the C5’s interior isn’t remotely close to the quality of the C7, that alone should persuade me to go for the C7

    • @garthock1
      @garthock1 2 года назад

      If someone offered me a C7 trade for my C5 I would have to say yes then I'd sell the C7 and buy another C5 with enough $$$ left over for some goodies. Just my 2 cents worth.

  • @joeboccia672
    @joeboccia672 2 года назад

    A bit of information if you buy these lights. When installing and testing. If your emergency brake is on the full running light will not light. There is nothing wrong with the light. I also had to change the light socket as they were burnt up. The sockets have 2 little tabs on each side or two small holes to push the tabs in. When you do this you can remove the center of the socket. Once apart you can remove the wires and place them in the new socket push the center in till it snaps in. There is no need to cut and splice. Just some information.

  • @gordenvogt2618
    @gordenvogt2618 2 года назад

    as always great info thanks Lyle

  • @regows123
    @regows123 2 года назад +1

    Smoked lamps would look awesome

  • @Spartan620
    @Spartan620 2 года назад

    I absolutely LOVE my Vette lights on my C5

  • @kelvinmclain9199
    @kelvinmclain9199 2 года назад

    You should definitely change the clear to the smoke lens Thanx for the video

  • @franklp2183
    @franklp2183 2 года назад

    Great stuff and I really like those sequential signals! I changed my signals out a few years back, but will look for these next time. Thanks!

  • @BarberDave
    @BarberDave 2 года назад

    Smoked for sure. Have the park lamps on my C6 and they are awesome

  • @CaptEricS
    @CaptEricS 2 года назад

    Hello Lyle, I'm an ASE CMAT and you are correct the 2157 bulbs melt the housing. My C5 has 60K and they where destroyed. I went to LED's They are fantastic... However, I went with LED's w/ Blue-dots for tail lights and they hyper flashed. I bought the same anti-hyperflash unit and it didn't work. I got another and it didn't work. I went with resistors... It is a real pain, yet I love a project! They work fine! Thanks...

    • @onemoremisfit
      @onemoremisfit 2 года назад

      I have an '02 Avalanche (obviously going to differ from a Vette) but I was able to easily find a drop in electronic flasher on amazon that allowed all directional and front side markers to be converted to the drop in led bulbs with no hyper flash. And the DRLs (located in the fog lamps) also work with a drop in 3157 led bulb. However, the brake lights, which are 2 of the 4 bulbs in tail lamps, will not trigger the cruise cancel with the drop in led 3157s, so that means you lose your cruise. So the solution there had to be resistors, and they brought the cruise back, but they got silly hot. So I tried using 2 resistors in series on each bulb, which doubles the resistance, halves the current passed thru them and also halves the heat. It worked. The brake lights now still draw enough current to trigger the cruise with leds, and less heat. Now I have the entire truck converted to all led (except the headlamps and fog lamps, I decided to stay halogen on those). Even the license plate lights are led, and they were way too bright, like 20th Century Fox on my license plate (lol) so I put pieces of black plastic with a small peep hole over them. But doubling the resistors in series is worth a try to reduce the heat if you have to use them, only trying it can tell if it will work, and it is better to draw less current as long as the flasher still works. A friend of mine has an '01 Z06 Vette, and I could not find any drop in electronic flashers for that car. He is also confounded with the poor headlights on that car as well. He lives a thousand miles from me and is not a guy who can wire in resistors, so his options are limited. I'm going to send him this video.

  • @krumabon1903
    @krumabon1903 Год назад

    Good choice.Clear looks better IMHO

  • @rogermeidl4856
    @rogermeidl4856 Год назад

    Stay with the clear, I want a pair!

    • @csvette
      @csvette  Год назад +1

      They are on my website, and the Park Lamp/Sidemarker/Hyperflash Bundle Special is still active! :) Lyle

  • @QUIKSIX1
    @QUIKSIX1 2 года назад

    Smoked for the setup you have. Also nice ZO6!

  • @lashlarue2266
    @lashlarue2266 2 года назад

    Another great video Lyle. Suggest Smoke version. Cheers.

  • @justinkrizenesky
    @justinkrizenesky 2 года назад

    I like the smoked look on the black car

  • @richarddobreny6664
    @richarddobreny6664 2 года назад +3

    Yes! With a black car, the smoked lamps will look great! I would like to know if that special under dash resistor works on the C6? I did LED’s in the rear and have some hyperflash

  • @leonlawrencez28
    @leonlawrencez28 2 года назад

    I like the clear lights but actually I like the hyper flash. I will check out the clear ones.

  • @victorjohnson2093
    @victorjohnson2093 Год назад

    I like the smoked and will order the kit

  • @danshotter791
    @danshotter791 7 месяцев назад

    You should show what the smoked front turn signals look like in smoke on line. That might make me what to buy the whole kit. Thanks

  • @tomfaltash9634
    @tomfaltash9634 2 года назад

    Hey Kyle, I think you should go with the smoke lights.
    Love your vlog, keep up the amazing content

  • @frankg6161
    @frankg6161 2 года назад +1

    your side markers look great with black paint, change the fronts to match, and complete the look

  • @jeffpfeifle8240
    @jeffpfeifle8240 2 года назад

    Go with the smoked so everything matches, I will be looking at your site for a front of smoked units and the hyper flash wiring

  • @luisdias5132
    @luisdias5132 2 года назад

    Yes I think you should switch to your black ones they look very sharp

  • @JoeZasada
    @JoeZasada 2 года назад

    those look great. If I ever get a C5, I would put (all) of those lights on it

  • @macnasty83
    @macnasty83 2 года назад

    Definitely gonna vote for the smoked lenses

  • @keithroberson9291
    @keithroberson9291 Год назад

    Thanks for the great video, are they difficult to install?

  • @madmax96
    @madmax96 2 года назад

    I've had a low mileage C5 for a few years. I took it on its first road trip to the Woodward dream cruise from Chicago and both are melted. I thought it was because of the junky aftermarket housings.
    The lights shown here look cool but it sure doesn't look like the front turn indicator visibility is that great from directly in front of the car, especially at night with white LEDs washing it out....?
    Great video as always!

  • @ss-5553
    @ss-5553 2 года назад

    Nice idea thank's !

  • @jgetscensored7837
    @jgetscensored7837 7 месяцев назад

    Mine are melted. Buying some new ones and putting leds in them.

  • @danielskopp2448
    @danielskopp2448 2 года назад

    My 1998 park lamps are just fine!! So far!

  • @vincentfisher4748
    @vincentfisher4748 2 года назад

    Go with the smoked ⚫️ lights .they go good 👍 with a dark color .

  • @FredRobel
    @FredRobel 2 месяца назад

    I think it was GM's design philosophy at the time, with their front running/turn signal lights. I have a 2000 C5, and we used to have a 2000 Chevy minivan. The thing they have in common? Crappy front turn signal/running lights. Same issue on both. The running lights overheat the modulat plastic housing, warping/burning it; Or, the socket breaks out. Terrible engineering for a plastic housing.

  • @kumakaroshi117
    @kumakaroshi117 5 месяцев назад

    Clear looks best , smoke/dark tend to look cheap over time

  • @christopherdutro168
    @christopherdutro168 2 года назад

    Thanks!

  • @themcandrews5862
    @themcandrews5862 2 года назад

    Smoked look nice bud. 😎👍

  • @mikeanddebboyers6822
    @mikeanddebboyers6822 2 года назад +1

    I hate my milky stock DRL's. I'm also concerned about messing with anything electronic on theses cars. I'm afraid to get gremlins started.

  • @CrossWindsPat
    @CrossWindsPat 2 года назад +1

    Probably the first thing I did to my c5 was upgrade everything to LED.

  • @mitchklass4280
    @mitchklass4280 2 года назад

    Put the smokes on Lyle! I have smoke on both parking and side markers and looks so good on black C5’s!!

  • @MegaNono43
    @MegaNono43 2 года назад

    Lyle, can you talk about performance across the different generations?
    Thats something people really don't have much idea and it is very important.
    For example, is a C3 big block faster than a C4 LT1? Or a C4 LT4 vs a C5?
    Stick vs Auto? Would it be worth to pay extra for a z06 or z51?
    That would be a great topic to talk about not only for collectors but for the young folks that like speed.
    Btw great channel and shop! I love watching the videos!

  • @clintonstepanekjr4241
    @clintonstepanekjr4241 2 года назад

    You have to match them to the side panel lights, you obviously like the black look. Just switch em out for the smoked ones. Thats just my opinion but i think you really wanna switch em too😉

  • @garthock1
    @garthock1 2 года назад

    Lyle do the smoked for your black smokin' hot C5 Vette. When my park lamps go south on my metallic grey 04 I'm going to get the smoked ones.

  • @roderickpullen4102
    @roderickpullen4102 2 года назад

    Love the smoke look. Go all smoke.

  • @TheBBodyBuilder
    @TheBBodyBuilder 2 года назад

    Love your videos Lyle! (Also really like the 03 Z06!)…why not offer a kit for all of the exterior lamps? Looking forward to your next upload Sir.

    • @csvette
      @csvette  2 года назад +1

      Bubba, I will do that once I have installed LED headlights and taillights myself to test them for afew months...I really want to make sure that anything I promote on here has been QC'd. :) Lyle

  • @HusseinWN
    @HusseinWN 2 года назад

    Nice but i still love oem gm once, i do have the laser on back fender.. keep it up and def kore c5 videos haha 👍

  • @lobuzz311
    @lobuzz311 2 года назад

    Smoked for sure! Swap them out and enable Batman mode 👍

  • @lesevans1479
    @lesevans1479 2 года назад

    100% go with smoke --- I did on my black 2002