Good Morning everyone! I'm the FPV drone Operator that filmed the chase sequence, pass, and slow start in Oroville California. I saw that a lot of people were concerned about my work in doing this so I just wanted to get a dialog started and get some info out there. When it comes to the legal side of things, I'm actually a licensed UAV operator that has been flying operations near and around crowds of people commercially for years now. I've done events, vehicle showcases, videos for locations like bars, etc. It's taken me a long time to become as confident as I am in order to record a video like this. The regulations from the FAA detail that flights like the ones I performed in the video above (with what is known as a category 2 unmanned aircraft, known in the hobby as a "cinewhoop") are allowed if and only if I follow specific guidelines: - The propellers are enclosed (not exposed to prevent injury) - Flight over people is not sustained for long periods of time, same goes for when flying near moving vehicles - You need to be licensed and have had extensive experience I'll leave a link to the FAA's guild lines so you don't have to take my word for it: www.faa.gov/uas/commercial_operators/operations_over_people Now when it comes to the moral side of the argument I can really feel for what Hyce mentioned in concerns about serving as a distraction for the engineer and other train crew. Obviously what I did here is protected by law, but that doesn't excuse the fact that this was indeed done without any of the crew's official knowledge. *** I should also mention that thanks to Hyce, I've notified about the Facebook group: "Official Union Pacific Steam Club" which does mention to stay back about 7.5 meters (25ft) I will say it was a personal failure that I did not find the group and double check the suggestions on their site before filming the clips. I will take full accountability for that as I did not fully inform myself, which I must say is quite embarrassing. *** Just like Hyce, I would love to talk to anyone from UP in regards to what has been done here, I think we can all gain so much if we continue to converse on this topic. I truly think that in the future either myself or some other seasoned FPV pilots could work with the railroad and create some incredible material for fans everywhere to watch. With the proper disclaimers of course. Thank you for reading! I look forward to conversing with everyone here, whether that be praise or criticism! p.s. The second pronunciation was spot on!
Thanks for being open and honest about your experience and giving background! Lots of folks said what you did was illegal and all that - I'm far from an expert on anything drone and think this is valuable conversation to be had. I sincerely appreciate your thoughts on this stuff. Cheers!
This was super well worded and very mature. Too many people get heated and jump into arguments instead of educating people in a mature and humane manner. I think everyone should take notes here. The internet needs more level headed people like yourself. Thank you, sir.
I am still in the hobbyist level with my drone flight. I had always assumed the same rules as RC airplanes, Just don't fly over crowds. I am glad that you are aware of any regulations regarding flying over crowds. Your filming is absolutely stunning! It's a level of confidence I hope to obtain some day.
Background: I am a recreational R/C (fixed wing, mostly) pilot and certificated private pilot (glider rating). Stepping back from the letter of the law to some more fuzzy parts and other possible safety issues, there is 14CFR91.13, which gives the FAA a broader authority over "careless or reckless operation." The FAA can and will bring that hammer down on you if someone is injured, so tread carefully. More generally, I'd rather just not talk to the FAA if I don't need to. YMMV. From a safety and not regulatory perspective, there is one particular incident in your video that I want to point out. Railroad (and automobile road) right-of-ways are often also used for power and telecommunications wires. At 11:56 in Hyce's video, a pair of wires go by in front of the camera. My experience with FPV is limited, but I would guess that you are probably not able to see those wires in your screen/goggles. In short, this is not a safe airspace to be flying in using either FPV or line-of-sight operations, doubly so when you take proximity to rail operations into account. It wouldn't be as cool, granted, but flying at an altitude of 75-100 feet probably would have been more appropriate here. To be clear, I'm not trying to rag on you, but flying near power and telecomms lines can be very expensive for both you and the power/telecomms companies. Just wanted to point them out because they're hard to see and can end a flight (UAS or full-scale) very badly.
Legal or not, diving under that bridge next to a moving train? 11:23 Ffs, no. It's a steam excursion. There are windows and doors open, people stick their heads out. And they are moving at track speed. So if your drone hits that bridge, that debris hits the train at track speed. And there's a work train right under the bridge on the track that you're flying over. 11:40 And yes, as mentioned above, there are all kinds of cables and wires strung up along a railroad. Right here you are basically level with the tender, about 6m off to the side, and passing *under* a cable between the two signals. With what looks like not a centimeter to spare.
9:29 Man, _that's probably the first time a steam whistle has echoed through the Pass in 70-odd years..._ *_It's beautiful_* 🥲 Edit: Thanks for the clarification, guys. Okay, so not _70+_ years, but still a while. _And that period of time might still apply for articulated locomotives?_
You know whats hilarious about what you said at 1:26? Ed Dickens himself made his first ever Trainorders post on the 7th of august, and in it he said this: [And by the way, the "diesel isn’t doing all the work" for goodness sake.] Ed is such a treasure lmao
"oh, you've seen the big boy before? what does it sound like?" "if its going slow, it sounds like *chunk chunk chunk chunk chunk chunk chunk chunk* , and if its going fast it sounds like *chunkchunkchunkchunk chunkchunkchunkchunk* "
I never thought I would get to see an operational smoke hood in preservation. Seeing 4014 exiting one of the tunnels with the smoke hood was such an unexpected surprise. About the heartlands tour, the engine will be coming through Oklahoma. So you bet I’ll be there with some of my friends to see the thing.
Airline pilot day job here, and I felt your two side of the coin points about the drone footage was spot on. You summed up the safety reservations perfectly.
The Donner Chase was my absolute favorite by far and likely never will be topped. I was at Bowman which is a couple of miles above the tree incident and when Ed took off out of Auburn, you could hear that thing from over 2 miles out come roaring up the hill with a fury I have never heard out of steam locomotive before! Makes me really appreciate what the big AC's must've sounded like when they were Kings of the Hill
I was at Emigrant Gap and Tunnel 41 when it went over donner. What a beast. At E Gap it stopped for greasing up the rods. When they highballed, that was a treat!
There’s nothing like hearing that engine working up the 2.2% grade past Colfax. Ed was pouring on the oil for the added smoke, and it made it all the more beautiful. Check out the scenes in Auburn over the bridge and Soda Springs past all the people!
I was lucky enough to ride behind 4014 in the Colorado Eagle dome. Many of us saw the drone land on the car in front of us in Colfax, and one person from the steam crew told us that “this was a first” for the steam crew. The drone was removed in Emigrant Gap. We must’ve seen at least 50 drones that trip, many of which were flying too close. Besides the collision with the tree, the brake fire on the Omaha car, and the numerous people dangerously close to the tracks, Ed sure put on a good show for everyone. It was amazing to watch the thousands of people who’d come out to see 4014
I was at the Gold Run crossing, and the behavior of some of the people was just appalling, like crossing the tracks long after the gates were done, and you could hear how close 4014 was... can't imagine the thoughts that the crew were having about that. People also got in the way of a Westbound Amtrak, that had to slow down and stop at the crossing just as Big Boy came past, and blocked the view for the people on the side of that track.
At around 3:25 ish, I turned up my volume and it really hit me how much better my new headset is, I almost cried when I heard 4014, it was so beautiful sounding. I've never seen an operational rail-bound steam locomotive in person.
Just awesome! To even see 4014 in service is incredible, to hear it work and pulling hard is just marvelous. WM1309 is the biggest steam Choo Choo I’ve seen run, and while I hope to one day see the big boy in action (as with Hyce, unfortunately scheduling conflicts for its trip East this fall….) seeing and hearing 1309 work in person will certainly give one chills. When I was fortunate enough to catch Big 6 up close working and slipping on the Cass grade, hearing the steam chuffs sounding like gunshots echoing through the mountains was surreal. I was for sure covered in goose bumps and just in awe of what I was experiencing. I will say, no matter what equipment you film or record with, nothing can compare to being there in person. But people like Hyce and others who SAFELY bring the footage of locomotives and trains to those of us who can’t be there in person are so important and enjoyable to those of us who love railroad preservation. And that key word is SAFELY. PLEASE enjoy these in real life while not being dangerous or annoying to the crews and other onlookers. As Hyce said, all it may take is one serious incident and all the progress in steam and railroad preservation can be undone in an instant.
It’s great seeing the 4014 working hard. I do agree with your thoughts on drones. Drone operators should respect the 25ft rule. With technology, something could easily go wrong and it only takes one incident that could ruin it for everyone. On another note, I was up at Lake Superior Railroad Museum a couple of weeks ago and saw DMIR’s #227 (Yellowstone), which was amazing to see.
At 11:23, the funny thing is I was right there as the drone flew over. I just saw a glimpse of it and thought “How on earth is that even legal…?” (Btw, I am the third one closest to the bridge, halfway down the hill and crouched over between the group of two and three people, so I saw it pretty good I believe.) My phone overheated at the last 7 seconds of the train.
Since 4014 decided to be a logger and hit a tree that took out the right front cylinder cocks, they lost three hours of steam running to be supplanted with steam sitting. I suspect that the diesel was invited to perform a bit more power to reserve some water besides the challenge of Donner. This probably would be a good call since they later got a brake lockup on one of the passenger cars that continued to delay the excursion causing the extended planned stops to be cancelled. Ed Dickens has spoken publicly and does NOT appreciate drones which affect the normal operation of a moving vehicle. It is the same as driving a car and having to have an additional thing that grabs your attention from what one is doing.
That’s not a typical drone but usual called a FPV. You fly them in VR goggles and often are extremely light to get good performance. GoPro are too heavy so they strip the core of the camera and toss the shell. It’s definitely risky and if I was certified I wouldn’t be risking my license by flying the way they were. Over crowds usually is what gets you in trouble
Something like that drone footage, coming from the perspective of a former aviation professional: That sort of thing needs lots of planning beforehand with the train crew. The train crew should know in advance when the drone will be in the air near the locomotive and generally speaking where. The air crew should plan the maneuvers with the train crew so anything the train crew isn't comfortable with can get vetoed. "What if we came head on then I slipped to the side to capture the train going by?" "No I don't like the chances that you'll hit the cab; can you maybe do a pass to the side?" The pilot should take notes of the train's planned performance so as to plan the flight around it; in aviation, the less maneuverable you are, the more right of way you get. A quadcopter is a lot more maneuverable than a steam locomotive. That way the train crew can plan for it. They can say "And there's our drone pilot" and then there isn't time spent going "what the hell, I think that's a drone!" They can continue running a train knowing the pilot is going to do his job. The pilot should plan his maneuvers around the limitations given by the train crew building in contingencies for equipment failure or adverse conditions; the drone should never be anywhere it can't safely land if something goes wrong. On the day, fly the planned flight. Without that communication and planning it just shouldn't be done. Don't just show up and start flying drones around things.
Just got membership back and got to say, the new members sees video first and then non members is a interesting way but just another way that makes your channel interesting.
@Hyce777 I watch another channel squatch253 and the members get early access to his videos and have for a while now. Hopefully it works out for you as well.
People definitely need to listen to Hyce's advice about obeying safety guidelines, both for safety's sake itself and for continuing to be allowed the privilege to see things like this at all. Case in point, back when 4449 was still being run on excursions, I remember them leaving the windows in the vestibules on the cars open so that people could better see and hear the locomotive during the trip; but the Amtrak personnel onboard that were responsible for a lot of the safety of the train warned people not to hang their heads or arms out of the vestibules for safety's sake. Well, some people ignored the rules and did it anyway, and the Amtrak guys spotted them doing it, and in response started requiring that all of the vestibule windows stay closed for the entire duration of the trips from that point forward. So the only way to really see/hear the locomotive when riding behind it was to go to the baggage car where they had the doors open. So I echo Hyce's message: stay safe people, and don't spoil the privilege for the rest of us! Great video as always, Hyce!
As per "Last if the Giants", they can operate either side of the smoke hood independent from the other, which is a cool thing to note . The steam plume coming off the engineer's side is either the injector, or exhaust from the centrifugal sludge separator which is used to help stop the boiler from foaming. It looks as though they removed the signal foam meter from 4014s cab (if she ever even had one, but most 4000s did from what i have seen), but I'm sure the manual sludge remover valves are probably still in the cab. There was one on either side of the cab, as built.
Having seen the 4014 in person, I will admit it is hard at times to stay that safe distance back, especially given what happened in Mexico that the crew of CP 2816 experienced. Staying back from all trains- no matter the motive power- when they are in motion is best for us all.
we were plannin to go see 4014 when she was in Roseville, but had to cancel last minute cause it was just too damn hot for us to make the trip (they unfortunately visited during a really gnarly heatwave across the north and middle state) and we figured we can always catch her again on another tour- the locomotive roaring like a jet engine with the whistle incredible echoing off the hills is still so impressive even through the video
There is nothing like giant steam locomotives taking over Donner Pass, Union 844 went over Donner, and I think 3985 went over as well, and some of the Southern Pacific steam locomotives are also used to take over Donner pass as well, this is one of the best part about this video.
1981, UP 844 (8444 at the time) and 3985 *doubleheaded* over Donner. SP had three tunnel motor helpers on the train. The crew was asked to work the steamers hard at a specific point for someone making an audio recording. Apparently, the helper crew decided to take that request to heart; the result was the steamers really getting down on their hands and knees as, for the first time ever, a train went *up* the ruling grade on Donner in full dynamic braking...
Fun story about a small SP wreck in downtown Truckee. My grandfather was a volunteer firefighter for Truckee for many years. Context: The fire department in Truckee is next to the Amtrak station, just separated by a parking lot. The 2nd story houses the fire chief’s office, which has windows only facing the street, and not behind the building. Behind the firehouse is a small gravel lot about 25 feet wide, for the firefighters to park. Behind the tiny lot is the good old espee railroad. Story (according to my grandfather):One day, the fire chief was in his office, on the 2nd floor of the old brick firehouse, as usual. All of the sudden, a tremendous rumbling can be felt throughout downtown, followed by a THUD and the sound of metal scraping on rock behind the building. Remember, there were no windows facing that direction, because the chief initially thought “The Big One” had hit. He gets on the brand-new radio and yells “I don’t know what the hell just happened, but I want everybody downtown NOW.” As it turns out, a SP train was coming down the summit too fast, and when it rounded the curve, the locomotives all tipped over, landed on the train station platform, and slid right next to the right-of-way, finally coming to a rest right behind the fire department in that small gravel lot. If the train had gone a couple feet further away from the tracks it would have been a disaster. Thank God they were going just fast enough to derail the engines but too slow for the rest of the train to follow suit, so no cars derailed. Train crew only had minor injuries. Cause? The train crew was high as a kite. Today, there is a steam crane that is on public display near the railyard, which is the same one that helped in the clean-up, hence why locals preserved it.
I personally think that drones are great for getting shots when they’re in the hands of the right people. I’ve seen so many clips of idiots flying drones through bridges or through moving open boxcars and it honestly scares me how close some of those near-misses were.
Having oil burning experience, I noticed the heavier smoke on donner pass as well. It did surprise me as the UP guys are very big into high heat, low smoke firing. I'd like to hear from whoever was firing that day to hear exactly what was going on. I'm no expert The first clip may be flue sanding, but I don't think so. Flue sanding is usually not that color, and shouldn't last that long. I wonder if that's just what they had to do to keep pressure on the grade? But Big Boy is a big - shrug. Maybe that smoke hood fills the fire and smoke space with soot in the long tunnels that had to blast out as soon as the the choo could blow its nose (ah choo {choo})? All kinds of speculation, but it sure looked and sounded cool!
Yeah, I'm with you. Flue sanding was a guess out of kindness. It might also have to fire a bit dirty to make that much steam. I knew if I said that I'd get an earful from Ed though. Lol! I'd love to know the details.
I think a lot of it was putting on a show for the crowds that expect smoke from a steam engine. I have footage of Big Boy around eagle lakes road from a standstill on a nice run by. Not to plug...
All of the big engines worked over Donner Pass in the steam days had stack splitters mounted over the smoke stack. These were mounted in a position from over the front to the back of the smoke stack on the center line of the stack made from a piece of angle iron so as to spit the exhaust slightly sideways instead of directly up out of the stack. This remedy came about after changing to oil firing from wood as the exhaust from the oil-fired engines loosened the boards on the roofs of the snow sheds.
Recently I flew a drone near a train, but was done from a parking lot and the thing did not fly onto RR airspace. I think of the 25 foot rule as a wall being super tall that applies to flying drones too. I'm a licenced pilot and normally a relative with her real estate listings taking Ariel shots.
(EDIT: the faa changed certain rules and regulations, I need to read up more on the changes) As a commercial drone operator and commercial pilot I can tell you that the drone operator most definitely violated several FAR’s. However there are certain rules that differ on operations if you’re flying as a 107 commercial drone operator and as a hobbyist. Operating over moving vehicles and groups of people is illegal no matter the circumstances. Unless this person planned out their flight and filed for an exemption with the FAA to operate over a moving vehicle and crowds their whole flight was illegal. Beautiful shots and amazing flying though.
The use of Cinewhoop drones has proliferated across the entirety of the FPV community so the FAA took a look at the regulations and retooled them, I've left a link in the pinned comment of the video if your curious to read the new rules.
@@Tivis7 ah okay, I’ll have to check out the new FAR’s. I’ve only ever flown my mavic’s so I was only aware of the rules pertaining to the operations I was doing. The fact that you were using a whoop is incredible. I remember when they were still being refined as far as imaging. The footage you got looks amazing.
2350 CDT drop of 4014 working hard… YES! Also 11:25 Hyce I can tell you from previous knowledge that the supplier of this video broke about 10-12 FEDERAL LAWS regarding the use of a UAS in any airspace at any time, within the span of 30 seconds.
@@Hyce777yeah the major one that was just repeated that got hammered into my head (that most 107 pilots should always keep in mind) is you are not allowed to fly over people or property, not directly involved in the operation of a sUAS.
@@CaptainS0305 actually, the rules have been recently changed as of a couple years ago. The use of Cinewhoop drones has proliferated across the entirety of the community so the FAA took a look at the regulations and retooled them, I've left a link in the pinned comment of the video if your curious to read the new rules.
I was up there chasing it with a non-railfan friend last weekend. Safe to say she firmly gets it now. The crowds were insane, even when the train was delayed in Auburn there were still hundreds of people toughing it out in the heat and humidity trackside. The show Ed and the crew put on afterwards made it well worth the wait.
9:13 The Big Boy has an exhaust steam injector on the fireman's side, and a live steam injector on the engineer's side (no feedwater heater, I guess UP thought the exhaust steam injector was good enough). So it was probably coming from the live steam injector.
A first time train chase for me as a rail fan... and it was epic! After seeing 4014 on static display at Roseville on Friday in the 100+ heat (it was a great treat to see and hear Ed at the Q&A), I knew that I just had to see it in motion. So, I followed 4014 from Roseville to Sparks, the sounds and sights were unbelievable. Those wistful whistle echos just melted my soul.
The steam coming out at 9:30 was the blow down being opened. The loco is going up a steep hill, all the boiler water is at the back of the boiler, the fireman will open the blowdown to drop the water level so the water isn’t too high in the glass and this will give more steam in the boiler to keep her working. Common practice if the fireman has put too much water in on the trip so far and the water in the glass is too high. This also improves the chances of the loco not priming and passing water through the regulator because of high water. (UK terms used as I’m from the UK)
If UP has any operation lifesaver diesels, that might be a good locomotive to trail behind 4014, that way Ed has a rolling safety advertisement wherever they go
Hyce, don't lose your safety minded training. I agree with your safety viewpoint. I was an operating rules instructor and engineman (now retired) from a western class 1 railroad. Yes I also noticed people were not back 25 feet from the tracks. That will be preached (just like operation lifesaver teaching that I was also involved in) and there will always be people who as you say " push the envelope" and risk their own safety and the safety of others. There will always be at least one idiot in every crowd. Thanks for your professional commentary. "Safety First" and "Accidents are Preventable" the latter was also printed on our employee time tables. If I remember correctly too, the passenger cars in the consist: their sub floors when built were filled with concrete for sound and vibration deadening.
I live in downtown historic Truckee, CA. I wasn't even aware that the "Big Boy" was going to roll through our town last Sunday. I was sitting on my upstairs front porch reading and when suddenly there was this extremely loud train whistle coming from down the hill where the train tracks run. I hear trains all the time but never that loud. I should've realized something special was going on because during the afternoon drive home from Reno I saw all these cars parked on the hill in and near my neighborhood above downtown Truckee and wondered what was going on to have so many tourists in town. But I'm not a rail fan per se and didn't know until the next day what had happened. The passage of the "Big Boy" through Truckee has been the talk of the town all week.
idk if you've seen the 4014 in duluth, Minnesota video. I forget what it's called, but there's an area where a bunch of tracks intersect and the curve of the track is quite steep. seeing the 4014 swing out over it is incredible
im not the biggest bigboy fan, but even i gotta apreciate that whistle echoing through the valley. theres honestly nothing in this world quite like the sound of a big steamer singing the song of its people through scenery like this.
9:40 This whistle transports me instantly to the edge of the prairie on a moonless night where several heavy storms are brewing a few miles away, but the skies are already quite bright with flashes electricity, so I seek shelter in a railroad station, and as I turn to close the door from the weather, a long freight train pulled by one of these monuments of engineering thunders by at more top speed than it should be, having descended the nearby mountains, right into the center of the bad weather... The next day the storms have passed and the telegraph lines are full of news of destruction, disaster and death in untellable numbers, neither I nor the stationmaster are sure if the train last night was real. Some hours after daybreak early reports come in over the southern telegraph lines, which have been spared by nature, of a bad derailment with a completely wrecked train and the total collapse of the nearest bridge.
That echo is so haunting. I saw 4014 and I even got to go inside the cab of one of its siblings 4006 and when I was in the cab, it felt like going back in time. When steam was king
them using the smoke deflector was something i wasn't expecting but when I first saw a video of it i was blown away that they actually kept that operable
This was an amazing experience for the railfans among us. Catch you on the high iron at the Colorado Railroad Museum or wherever your next adventure is, Mark.
What a day this was. My Dad and I started our chase at Auburn about 9AM. That was the first time I ever saw it running in person, and it was on a huge bridge over highway 80. Couldn’t get to Colfax because there were just too many people, so we went up to a place I found in Gold Run I thought would be ahead of everyone. It was, we were only like the third car to get there. Of course, 4014 hit a tree, so it didn’t get to us for about five hours, but it was all worth it to see that thing run by making up time. Just wish we could have kept going; too bad we had work the next day!
We have the same problem and Antique Tractor Plow and or Harvesting days with drones and on lookers. What makes it even worse is everyone is riding in 4x4 Side By Sides and get right up within a couple feet of the moving equipment! All its going to take is something to break and injure someone and no more Plow days! I agree with your view points.
I SAW HIM!!! I posted a video of it in the discord. He was handsome for sure. I woukda felt honored if my video ended up in here lol. I only heard the helper diesel kick on when they rolled over the switch, and he rolled coal accelerating up. It was the coolest experience ever. It was so cool.
The ACEs always remind me of those guys who are crown balding. The pattern of balding where the hair is gone from the top but its still full all around.
I went and saw 4014 when it stopped here in UT. Twas big and twas boy...... But probably more impressively was it was just there. All 25 of the UP Big Boys were built because of UT and it was fun to see it in the state that kind of was the reason for it to be. From what I could see in the lineup on it, there was a single diesel in sight and it was in reverse so I can only imagine that it was there to help stop the 600 ton locomotive plus all the extra stuff connected on it. In otherwords, I don't think it was running with a diesel, it was running on its own. The diesel was there to stop it as best it could.
Yes and no on the drone footage, Yes, OMG that footage was amazing and we need more, No, it can cause a distraction/possible safety issue, there might be a way to make it work with all parties in agreement, and i hope so, because that footage was so good!
That 2nd shot was a lesser grade of about 1%, a major flat spot for the 2% on either side, we can really pick up speed through there. The average grade on the Mountain is about 2.43% with some spots that get to 3%. with 80 miles of this a constant reverse curves all the way up, this was the hardest route this engine has ever worked in its life.
Imagein that sound coming out during the night time. God that echo thru out the land scape. watching the airal shot had to take some skill but the shot with the big boy moving slow. It look like slow motion but everyone is doing their normal walking speed. Big boy can going to a crawl while everything else stands still the the big boy steam train just keeps on going.
To be fair, the PTC thing was more for the FRA regulations and the ease of running mainline trips as a result. As for the grade, ANY steam locomotive going up that steep of a grade is GOING to smoke like a banshee no matter what. And I'm pretty sure the diesel is only on for the requirement of dynamic brakes because it has to be active for them to function. In reality, the train 4014 is currently running on is probably only about 5 to 600 tons without the diesel and 2 water tenders. If you factor in those, you're looking at maybe just over 1000 tons at most 1200. That's an EXCEPTIONALLY light train consist for most steamers let alone a 7000 horsepower 610 ton titan. Heck the freight consist she ran on with all them new UP cars probably only weighed about 350 to 400 tons at the very most. You'd need to calculate how much each car weighs for the accurate answer. But all those freight cars were empty so each car only weighed around 30 tons. So it's actually been a VERY light consist the whole time though it's been decently long. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if they did run 4014 on longer consists from now on simply because the engine is in fact broken in and ready for that kind of work. Does that mean we'll get another 143 car double stack intermodal train powered by steam over Sherman Hill?? Yeah probably not in our wildest dreams unless Ed really loses his mind lmfao
6:41 So that's what the doodad on that one Broadway Limited Imports Big Boy is! On BLI's website, one of their latest run of HO-scale Big Boys has some weird shroud thing covering the stacks. I couldn't figure out what it was (probably because I was too lazy to read the entire product description), but it's the smoke deflector. Looks like it's an optional add-on included with all of the Big Boys in this run. But I was scratching my head like an idiot (because I are one!) trying to figure out what the heck it was. Many thanks, Hyce!
This is UPs policy and what they say about individuals flying drones The person who did those drone rules not only broke what Union Pacific says but I’m also sure broke multiple FAA rules -Union Pacific operates in a safety-sensitive environment. Never operate a drone in a manner that could distract or otherwise endanger yourself, Union Pacific employees, equipment or the public. -All drone pilots must operate in compliance with applicable Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) regulations and safety guidelines. Flying a drone or other small unmanned aerial vehicle without complying with Federal Aviation Regulations, whether for hobby or commercial purposes, could result in civil fines or criminal action. For further information, refer to the FAA Drone Zone, as well as applicable state and local laws and regulations. -Drones may not take off from or land on Union Pacific property unless the pilot is authorized to do so in writing by a specific agreement with Union Pacific.
When it comes to the FAA's rules and regulations they've been retooled in recent years to allow for commercial pilots like myself to attain footage like this, there's a pinned comment at the top with a link to the FAA's website if you're curious to read up the exact words from them.
Thanks for sharing this with us, a pity about not having the cab-forward isn't in working order but it would've been nice infront of 4014 going up these mountains, there not hills. Double heading of course? One Australian very happy.
Those chime whistles are awesome! Many Australian steam locos were fitted with them. They sound so much better than the ‘peep peep’ of a traditional steam whistle.
4014 was probably working the hardest after it hit the tree in Auburn, California. Between Auburn and Colfax would appear to have been where it was pushed the hardest from every video I've seen and the video I shot at East Weimar Crossroads in Weimar, California. Old Man must have been pushing 50 or 60 up that stretch of the hill
I think the valve that brings up the smoke reflectors just operates both sides of the deflectors. More often than not when you'd see a 4000 with only 1 side of the hood up back in the day it was usually because one side of the hood wasn't working properly.
I know how to run this engine.... well... I know how to run this engine in TSC. As a European this is one of the iconic engines I heard about way before the internet was a thing. (The other one would be the FEF 3/UP844 in my case) and it was the first steam DLC I ever purchased for Railworks I believe it was called back then. Always amazing to see footage of the real thing.
@SpottingByTheBay posted a video a few days ago - Chasing Union Pacific Big Boy 4041 - with an overhead shot of the smoke deflectors engaging just before a tunnel. 2:58 minute mark.
I have a couple videos on channel of it going through the Truckee area. One video is at the horseshoe curve and you can hear the tension in the tracks just before it comes into view, with the ability to see the articulation in the front.
There's something so raw and primal about steam engines. Modern Diesel electrics will outperform them, but when you have a steam engine as big as Big Boy hurtling up that grade under full steam... There's nothing like it. It looks like a wild animal.
With respect to the smoke deflector: Hey, aren't those things usually supposed to deflect smoke up for protection of the crew? This does the opposite. Anyway, the idea I had for mercy to the crew is that since they have the diesel operational anyway, they could take 4014 down to idle as they enter the tunnel (might still need the deflector, but at least would make less steam and smoke) and crank the diesel up; then, when they get out of the tunnel, turn 4014 back up to full power and take the diesel down to idle, thereby minimizing the time of non-idle operation of both combustion-powered locomotives in the tunnel.
Reminds me of when the 611 pulled a train up the Saluda Grade way back when. I don't remember how steep it was but I believe it was over 4%. They split the train before the steep pull so there was only 4 or 5 cars behind it and it got within a stone's throw of the summit and spun out on a curve. They were about to call the helper diesels on standby to bring it to the top but they raided the sand buckets and put sand on the tracks in front of the engine until it was clear of the curve and they somehow got it started on that steep grade and got all the way to the top. I remember seeing a video somewhere where they matched up the event from inside and outside the cars because it happened as they were interviewing one of the people manning the brakes in case it lost grip suddenly. You got to watch it happen from a bystander's point of view and the interview's point of view simultaneously. It's always fun to hear them working hard like that.
![[SFS] This is a boxcar that ruined our week.](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/F-Jb1L8ShrY/mqdefault.jpg)
Good Morning everyone!
I'm the FPV drone Operator that filmed the chase sequence, pass, and slow start in Oroville California. I saw that a lot of people were concerned about my work in doing this so I just wanted to get a dialog started and get some info out there.
When it comes to the legal side of things, I'm actually a licensed UAV operator that has been flying operations near and around crowds of people commercially for years now. I've done events, vehicle showcases, videos for locations like bars, etc. It's taken me a long time to become as confident as I am in order to record a video like this. The regulations from the FAA detail that flights like the ones I performed in the video above (with what is known as a category 2 unmanned aircraft, known in the hobby as a "cinewhoop") are allowed if and only if I follow specific guidelines:
- The propellers are enclosed (not exposed to prevent injury)
- Flight over people is not sustained for long periods of time, same goes for when flying near moving vehicles
- You need to be licensed and have had extensive experience
I'll leave a link to the FAA's guild lines so you don't have to take my word for it:
www.faa.gov/uas/commercial_operators/operations_over_people
Now when it comes to the moral side of the argument I can really feel for what Hyce mentioned in concerns about serving as a distraction for the engineer and other train crew. Obviously what I did here is protected by law, but that doesn't excuse the fact that this was indeed done without any of the crew's official knowledge.
*** I should also mention that thanks to Hyce, I've notified about the Facebook group: "Official Union Pacific Steam Club" which does mention to stay back about 7.5 meters (25ft) I will say it was a personal failure that I did not find the group and double check the suggestions on their site before filming the clips. I will take full accountability for that as I did not fully inform myself, which I must say is quite embarrassing. ***
Just like Hyce, I would love to talk to anyone from UP in regards to what has been done here, I think we can all gain so much if we continue to converse on this topic. I truly think that in the future either myself or some other seasoned FPV pilots could work with the railroad and create some incredible material for fans everywhere to watch. With the proper disclaimers of course.
Thank you for reading! I look forward to conversing with everyone here, whether that be praise or criticism!
p.s. The second pronunciation was spot on!
Thanks for being open and honest about your experience and giving background! Lots of folks said what you did was illegal and all that - I'm far from an expert on anything drone and think this is valuable conversation to be had. I sincerely appreciate your thoughts on this stuff. Cheers!
This was super well worded and very mature. Too many people get heated and jump into arguments instead of educating people in a mature and humane manner.
I think everyone should take notes here. The internet needs more level headed people like yourself.
Thank you, sir.
I am still in the hobbyist level with my drone flight. I had always assumed the same rules as RC airplanes, Just don't fly over crowds. I am glad that you are aware of any regulations regarding flying over crowds.
Your filming is absolutely stunning! It's a level of confidence I hope to obtain some day.
Background: I am a recreational R/C (fixed wing, mostly) pilot and certificated private pilot (glider rating).
Stepping back from the letter of the law to some more fuzzy parts and other possible safety issues, there is 14CFR91.13, which gives the FAA a broader authority over "careless or reckless operation." The FAA can and will bring that hammer down on you if someone is injured, so tread carefully. More generally, I'd rather just not talk to the FAA if I don't need to. YMMV.
From a safety and not regulatory perspective, there is one particular incident in your video that I want to point out. Railroad (and automobile road) right-of-ways are often also used for power and telecommunications wires. At 11:56 in Hyce's video, a pair of wires go by in front of the camera. My experience with FPV is limited, but I would guess that you are probably not able to see those wires in your screen/goggles. In short, this is not a safe airspace to be flying in using either FPV or line-of-sight operations, doubly so when you take proximity to rail operations into account. It wouldn't be as cool, granted, but flying at an altitude of 75-100 feet probably would have been more appropriate here.
To be clear, I'm not trying to rag on you, but flying near power and telecomms lines can be very expensive for both you and the power/telecomms companies. Just wanted to point them out because they're hard to see and can end a flight (UAS or full-scale) very badly.
Legal or not, diving under that bridge next to a moving train? 11:23 Ffs, no. It's a steam excursion. There are windows and doors open, people stick their heads out. And they are moving at track speed. So if your drone hits that bridge, that debris hits the train at track speed. And there's a work train right under the bridge on the track that you're flying over.
11:40 And yes, as mentioned above, there are all kinds of cables and wires strung up along a railroad. Right here you are basically level with the tender, about 6m off to the side, and passing *under* a cable between the two signals. With what looks like not a centimeter to spare.
If Ed does watch and proves you wrong, you need to say Ed will never let you ride in the cab.
Don't forget this lines, ad will not let Mark fire the big boy or drive the big boy. 😉
Indeed, don't forget
Ed will never run her up over Saluda Pass with tonnage! :D
As much as it pains me to say this, Saluda won't see anything again. It is washed out in many places.
@@bigunatwork Dammit. Any other brutally stiff grades in the 4% plus range on a mainline left in the States for Ed to never run her up with tonnage?
9:29 Man, _that's probably the first time a steam whistle has echoed through the Pass in 70-odd years..._
*_It's beautiful_* 🥲
Edit: Thanks for the clarification, guys. Okay, so not _70+_ years, but still a while. _And that period of time might still apply for articulated locomotives?_
Im pretty sure the rotaries ran on steam for longer
@@the_retag But did they really have whistles? Besides, you know what I meant
@@Railman1225 most likely yes, as its a steam vehicles primary means of communication and warnings
They ran 844 over Donner back in 2012. It's been a while, but not 70 years.
You know whats hilarious about what you said at 1:26? Ed Dickens himself made his first ever Trainorders post on the 7th of august, and in it he said this: [And by the way, the "diesel isn’t doing all the work" for goodness sake.]
Ed is such a treasure lmao
not to be confused with the doner pass; the dangerous part of a night out where you try to walk by the kebab shops without stopping in
I experienced that kind of pass in Bosnia. Lol!
@@Hyce777 one of the few true pan-european shared experiences 🤣
@Azeria it's a part I have fallen foul of many a time. Damn tasty though.
Iykyk
Anyone who’s been to the Alley in Turkey knows, tire bread will run you over
"oh, you've seen the big boy before? what does it sound like?"
"if its going slow, it sounds like *chunk chunk chunk chunk chunk chunk chunk chunk* , and if its going fast it sounds like *chunkchunkchunkchunk chunkchunkchunkchunk* "
I never thought I would get to see an operational smoke hood in preservation. Seeing 4014 exiting one of the tunnels with the smoke hood was such an unexpected surprise. About the heartlands tour, the engine will be coming through Oklahoma. So you bet I’ll be there with some of my friends to see the thing.
Airline pilot day job here, and I felt your two side of the coin points about the drone footage was spot on. You summed up the safety reservations perfectly.
The Donner Chase was my absolute favorite by far and likely never will be topped. I was at Bowman which is a couple of miles above the tree incident and when Ed took off out of Auburn, you could hear that thing from over 2 miles out come roaring up the hill with a fury I have never heard out of steam locomotive before! Makes me really appreciate what the big AC's must've sounded like when they were Kings of the Hill
I was at Emigrant Gap and Tunnel 41 when it went over donner. What a beast. At E Gap it stopped for greasing up the rods. When they highballed, that was a treat!
I imagine the big boy thinking Jesus 70 years later and they STILL need me
Speaking of drones, I saw a post UP made asking people to keep their drones at least 25 feet away from the trains.
This is what the Big Boy lineup was REALLY built for! Taming the grades!
There’s nothing like hearing that engine working up the 2.2% grade past Colfax. Ed was pouring on the oil for the added smoke, and it made it all the more beautiful. Check out the scenes in Auburn over the bridge and Soda Springs past all the people!
I was lucky enough to ride behind 4014 in the Colorado Eagle dome. Many of us saw the drone land on the car in front of us in Colfax, and one person from the steam crew told us that “this was a first” for the steam crew. The drone was removed in Emigrant Gap. We must’ve seen at least 50 drones that trip, many of which were flying too close. Besides the collision with the tree, the brake fire on the Omaha car, and the numerous people dangerously close to the tracks, Ed sure put on a good show for everyone. It was amazing to watch the thousands of people who’d come out to see 4014
I was at the Gold Run crossing, and the behavior of some of the people was just appalling, like crossing the tracks long after the gates were done, and you could hear how close 4014 was... can't imagine the thoughts that the crew were having about that. People also got in the way of a Westbound Amtrak, that had to slow down and stop at the crossing just as Big Boy came past, and blocked the view for the people on the side of that track.
That drone shot, holy shit i understand the need for the two mindsets of interpretation
I love the 4014's whistle, and you're right it is a haunting, and ethereal sound.
At around 3:25 ish, I turned up my volume and it really hit me how much better my new headset is, I almost cried when I heard 4014, it was so beautiful sounding. I've never seen an operational rail-bound steam locomotive in person.
I know, right dude! Sound will make all the difference!
Just awesome! To even see 4014 in service is incredible, to hear it work and pulling hard is just marvelous.
WM1309 is the biggest steam Choo Choo I’ve seen run, and while I hope to one day see the big boy in action (as with Hyce, unfortunately scheduling conflicts for its trip East this fall….) seeing and hearing 1309 work in person will certainly give one chills.
When I was fortunate enough to catch Big 6 up close working and slipping on the Cass grade, hearing the steam chuffs sounding like gunshots echoing through the mountains was surreal. I was for sure covered in goose bumps and just in awe of what I was experiencing.
I will say, no matter what equipment you film or record with, nothing can compare to being there in person. But people like Hyce and others who SAFELY bring the footage of locomotives and trains to those of us who can’t be there in person are so important and enjoyable to those of us who love railroad preservation.
And that key word is SAFELY. PLEASE enjoy these in real life while not being dangerous or annoying to the crews and other onlookers. As Hyce said, all it may take is one serious incident and all the progress in steam and railroad preservation can be undone in an instant.
It’s great seeing the 4014 working hard. I do agree with your thoughts on drones. Drone operators should respect the 25ft rule. With technology, something could easily go wrong and it only takes one incident that could ruin it for everyone. On another note, I was up at Lake Superior Railroad Museum a couple of weeks ago and saw DMIR’s #227 (Yellowstone), which was amazing to see.
there flying illegally to start with rules on UAS state they are NOT to fly over people at all and must keep with in 500 feet of the pilot.
At 11:23, the funny thing is I was right there as the drone flew over. I just saw a glimpse of it and thought “How on earth is that even legal…?” (Btw, I am the third one closest to the bridge, halfway down the hill and crouched over between the group of two and three people, so I saw it pretty good I believe.) My phone overheated at the last 7 seconds of the train.
Since 4014 decided to be a logger and hit a tree that took out the right front cylinder cocks, they lost three hours of steam running to be supplanted with steam sitting. I suspect that the diesel was invited to perform a bit more power to reserve some water besides the challenge of Donner. This probably would be a good call since they later got a brake lockup on one of the passenger cars that continued to delay the excursion causing the extended planned stops to be cancelled. Ed Dickens has spoken publicly and does NOT appreciate drones which affect the normal operation of a moving vehicle. It is the same as driving a car and having to have an additional thing that grabs your attention from what one is doing.
That’s not a typical drone but usual called a FPV. You fly them in VR goggles and often are extremely light to get good performance. GoPro are too heavy so they strip the core of the camera and toss the shell.
It’s definitely risky and if I was certified I wouldn’t be risking my license by flying the way they were. Over crowds usually is what gets you in trouble
Something like that drone footage, coming from the perspective of a former aviation professional:
That sort of thing needs lots of planning beforehand with the train crew. The train crew should know in advance when the drone will be in the air near the locomotive and generally speaking where. The air crew should plan the maneuvers with the train crew so anything the train crew isn't comfortable with can get vetoed. "What if we came head on then I slipped to the side to capture the train going by?" "No I don't like the chances that you'll hit the cab; can you maybe do a pass to the side?" The pilot should take notes of the train's planned performance so as to plan the flight around it; in aviation, the less maneuverable you are, the more right of way you get. A quadcopter is a lot more maneuverable than a steam locomotive.
That way the train crew can plan for it. They can say "And there's our drone pilot" and then there isn't time spent going "what the hell, I think that's a drone!" They can continue running a train knowing the pilot is going to do his job. The pilot should plan his maneuvers around the limitations given by the train crew building in contingencies for equipment failure or adverse conditions; the drone should never be anywhere it can't safely land if something goes wrong. On the day, fly the planned flight.
Without that communication and planning it just shouldn't be done. Don't just show up and start flying drones around things.
I agree with this take. There's a time and space - *with* coordination.
Just got membership back and got to say, the new members sees video first and then non members is a interesting way but just another way that makes your channel interesting.
Welcome back! It's something I'm trying for the next week or so at the request of my Google rep. We'll see how it goes. Hopefully folks like it!
@@Hyce777 okay
@Hyce777 I watch another channel squatch253 and the members get early access to his videos and have for a while now. Hopefully it works out for you as well.
People definitely need to listen to Hyce's advice about obeying safety guidelines, both for safety's sake itself and for continuing to be allowed the privilege to see things like this at all. Case in point, back when 4449 was still being run on excursions, I remember them leaving the windows in the vestibules on the cars open so that people could better see and hear the locomotive during the trip; but the Amtrak personnel onboard that were responsible for a lot of the safety of the train warned people not to hang their heads or arms out of the vestibules for safety's sake. Well, some people ignored the rules and did it anyway, and the Amtrak guys spotted them doing it, and in response started requiring that all of the vestibule windows stay closed for the entire duration of the trips from that point forward. So the only way to really see/hear the locomotive when riding behind it was to go to the baggage car where they had the doors open.
So I echo Hyce's message: stay safe people, and don't spoil the privilege for the rest of us! Great video as always, Hyce!
As per "Last if the Giants", they can operate either side of the smoke hood independent from the other, which is a cool thing to note .
The steam plume coming off the engineer's side is either the injector, or exhaust from the centrifugal sludge separator which is used to help stop the boiler from foaming. It looks as though they removed the signal foam meter from 4014s cab (if she ever even had one, but most 4000s did from what i have seen), but I'm sure the manual sludge remover valves are probably still in the cab. There was one on either side of the cab, as built.
Having seen the 4014 in person, I will admit it is hard at times to stay that safe distance back, especially given what happened in Mexico that the crew of CP 2816 experienced. Staying back from all trains- no matter the motive power- when they are in motion is best for us all.
we were plannin to go see 4014 when she was in Roseville, but had to cancel last minute cause it was just too damn hot for us to make the trip (they unfortunately visited during a really gnarly heatwave across the north and middle state) and we figured we can always catch her again on another tour- the locomotive roaring like a jet engine with the whistle incredible echoing off the hills is still so impressive even through the video
Yeah it was really hot that day, I drank all the water I brought with me!
There is nothing like giant steam locomotives taking over Donner Pass, Union 844 went over Donner, and I think 3985 went over as well, and some of the Southern Pacific steam locomotives are also used to take over Donner pass as well, this is one of the best part about this video.
1981, UP 844 (8444 at the time) and 3985 *doubleheaded* over Donner. SP had three tunnel motor helpers on the train. The crew was asked to work the steamers hard at a specific point for someone making an audio recording. Apparently, the helper crew decided to take that request to heart; the result was the steamers really getting down on their hands and knees as, for the first time ever, a train went *up* the ruling grade on Donner in full dynamic braking...
Big Boy is like, "You call this a hill? PFFH this ain't nothing!!"
They operate wonderful for Union Pacific Big Boy 4014.
Big Boy is amazing! if I could have an accurate model railroad I would have one of him running around.
Watching a steam locomotive run these passes is like seeing what the Wild West must've been like.
My mother grew up in Truckee. The whole area is just amazing. I was going to fly out to Donner to catch 4014 but life had other plans…
Fun story about a small SP wreck in downtown Truckee. My grandfather was a volunteer firefighter for Truckee for many years.
Context: The fire department in Truckee is next to the Amtrak station, just separated by a parking lot. The 2nd story houses the fire chief’s office, which has windows only facing the street, and not behind the building. Behind the firehouse is a small gravel lot about 25 feet wide, for the firefighters to park. Behind the tiny lot is the good old espee railroad.
Story (according to my grandfather):One day, the fire chief was in his office, on the 2nd floor of the old brick firehouse, as usual. All of the sudden, a tremendous rumbling can be felt throughout downtown, followed by a THUD and the sound of metal scraping on rock behind the building.
Remember, there were no windows facing that direction, because the chief initially thought “The Big One” had hit. He gets on the brand-new radio and yells “I don’t know what the hell just happened, but I want everybody downtown NOW.”
As it turns out, a SP train was coming down the summit too fast, and when it rounded the curve, the locomotives all tipped over, landed on the train station platform, and slid right next to the right-of-way, finally coming to a rest right behind the fire department in that small gravel lot. If the train had gone a couple feet further away from the tracks it would have been a disaster. Thank God they were going just fast enough to derail the engines but too slow for the rest of the train to follow suit, so no cars derailed. Train crew only had minor injuries.
Cause? The train crew was high as a kite.
Today, there is a steam crane that is on public display near the railyard, which is the same one that helped in the clean-up, hence why locals preserved it.
I personally think that drones are great for getting shots when they’re in the hands of the right people. I’ve seen so many clips of idiots flying drones through bridges or through moving open boxcars and it honestly scares me how close some of those near-misses were.
this has always confused me... hypotheticly, what happens if the drone crashes into the boxcar?
Having oil burning experience, I noticed the heavier smoke on donner pass as well. It did surprise me as the UP guys are very big into high heat, low smoke firing. I'd like to hear from whoever was firing that day to hear exactly what was going on.
I'm no expert
The first clip may be flue sanding, but I don't think so. Flue sanding is usually not that color, and shouldn't last that long. I wonder if that's just what they had to do to keep pressure on the grade? But Big Boy is a big - shrug.
Maybe that smoke hood fills the fire and smoke space with soot in the long tunnels that had to blast out as soon as the the choo could blow its nose (ah choo {choo})?
All kinds of speculation, but it sure looked and sounded cool!
Yeah, I'm with you. Flue sanding was a guess out of kindness. It might also have to fire a bit dirty to make that much steam. I knew if I said that I'd get an earful from Ed though. Lol! I'd love to know the details.
I think a lot of it was putting on a show for the crowds that expect smoke from a steam engine. I have footage of Big Boy around eagle lakes road from a standstill on a nice run by. Not to plug...
It very well may be they have to run a bit richer than usual to get enough fuel in for the steam generation they need - that's my guess, anyway.
@@davidfuller581 Yeah that's what I'm leaning towards. They probably wouldn't make smoke just for pictures.
Excellent production! Thanks for compiling the great videos!
That whistle gave me chills. Not quite N&W Hooter from 1218, but just as awesome
All of the big engines worked over Donner Pass in the steam days had stack splitters mounted over the smoke stack. These were mounted in a position from over the front to the back of the smoke stack on the center line of the stack made from a piece of angle iron so as to spit the exhaust slightly sideways instead of directly up out of the stack. This remedy came about after changing to oil firing from wood as the exhaust from the oil-fired engines loosened the boards on the roofs of the snow sheds.
If you look up the last of the Giants you will see the fireman and the engineer testing. The smoke reflector before they left the yard.
instead of just 25 feet back from the track it should be a 25 foot bubble around the locomotive so it could apply to drones too
Recently I flew a drone near a train, but was done from a parking lot and the thing did not fly onto RR airspace. I think of the 25 foot rule as a wall being super tall that applies to flying drones too. I'm a licenced pilot and normally a relative with her real estate listings taking Ariel shots.
(EDIT: the faa changed certain rules and regulations, I need to read up more on the changes) As a commercial drone operator and commercial pilot I can tell you that the drone operator most definitely violated several FAR’s. However there are certain rules that differ on operations if you’re flying as a 107 commercial drone operator and as a hobbyist. Operating over moving vehicles and groups of people is illegal no matter the circumstances. Unless this person planned out their flight and filed for an exemption with the FAA to operate over a moving vehicle and crowds their whole flight was illegal. Beautiful shots and amazing flying though.
The use of Cinewhoop drones has proliferated across the entirety of the FPV community so the FAA took a look at the regulations and retooled them, I've left a link in the pinned comment of the video if your curious to read the new rules.
@@Tivis7 ah okay, I’ll have to check out the new FAR’s. I’ve only ever flown my mavic’s so I was only aware of the rules pertaining to the operations I was doing. The fact that you were using a whoop is incredible. I remember when they were still being refined as far as imaging. The footage you got looks amazing.
2350 CDT drop of 4014 working hard… YES! Also 11:25 Hyce I can tell you from previous knowledge that the supplier of this video broke about 10-12 FEDERAL LAWS regarding the use of a UAS in any airspace at any time, within the span of 30 seconds.
Yikes; yeah, I wasn't familiar, as cool as it looked, it may not have been the most correct.
Quite the advertisement for a professional drone photographer, that is.
@@Hyce777yeah the major one that was just repeated that got hammered into my head (that most 107 pilots should always keep in mind) is you are not allowed to fly over people or property, not directly involved in the operation of a sUAS.
@@CaptainS0305 actually, the rules have been recently changed as of a couple years ago. The use of Cinewhoop drones has proliferated across the entirety of the community so the FAA took a look at the regulations and retooled them, I've left a link in the pinned comment of the video if your curious to read the new rules.
part of me wonders if hes the dude who had his drove crash into the consist lol
I was up there chasing it with a non-railfan friend last weekend. Safe to say she firmly gets it now. The crowds were insane, even when the train was delayed in Auburn there were still hundreds of people toughing it out in the heat and humidity trackside. The show Ed and the crew put on afterwards made it well worth the wait.
Thanks, Hyce! I enjoy your audio without the annoying bell ringing when I'm trying to hear the 4014! 😃
absolutely beautiful piece of art
9:13 The Big Boy has an exhaust steam injector on the fireman's side, and a live steam injector on the engineer's side (no feedwater heater, I guess UP thought the exhaust steam injector was good enough). So it was probably coming from the live steam injector.
Love your passion and emotion towards the videos I though was just me 😂
A first time train chase for me as a rail fan... and it was epic! After seeing 4014 on static display at Roseville on Friday in the 100+ heat (it was a great treat to see and hear Ed at the Q&A), I knew that I just had to see it in motion. So, I followed 4014 from Roseville to Sparks, the sounds and sights were unbelievable. Those wistful whistle echos just melted my soul.
The steam coming out at 9:30 was the blow down being opened. The loco is going up a steep hill, all the boiler water is at the back of the boiler, the fireman will open the blowdown to drop the water level so the water isn’t too high in the glass and this will give more steam in the boiler to keep her working. Common practice if the fireman has put too much water in on the trip so far and the water in the glass is too high. This also improves the chances of the loco not priming and passing water through the regulator because of high water. (UK terms used as I’m from the UK)
Interesting, blowdown makes sense. Neat! Very different than the ones I'm used to.
I'm glad the big boy can still put in a little work.The old man still got it
If UP has any operation lifesaver diesels, that might be a good locomotive to trail behind 4014, that way Ed has a rolling safety advertisement wherever they go
Always great videos and explanations tks
Hyce, don't lose your safety minded training. I agree with your safety viewpoint. I was an operating rules instructor and engineman (now retired) from a western class 1 railroad. Yes I also noticed people were not back 25 feet from the tracks. That will be preached (just like operation lifesaver teaching that I was also involved in) and there will always be people who as you say " push the envelope" and risk their own safety and the safety of others. There will always be at least one idiot in every crowd. Thanks for your professional commentary. "Safety First" and "Accidents are Preventable" the latter was also printed on our employee time tables. If I remember correctly too, the passenger cars in the consist: their sub floors when built were filled with concrete for sound and vibration deadening.
YA LOVE TA SEE IT
Can't wait for her to come through my state in the Heartland of America tour!
I live in downtown historic Truckee, CA. I wasn't even aware that the "Big Boy" was going to roll through our town last Sunday. I was sitting on my upstairs front porch reading and when suddenly there was this extremely loud train whistle coming from down the hill where the train tracks run. I hear trains all the time but never that loud. I should've realized something special was going on because during the afternoon drive home from Reno I saw all these cars parked on the hill in and near my neighborhood above downtown Truckee and wondered what was going on to have so many tourists in town. But I'm not a rail fan per se and didn't know until the next day what had happened. The passage of the "Big Boy" through Truckee has been the talk of the town all week.
idk if you've seen the 4014 in duluth, Minnesota video. I forget what it's called, but there's an area where a bunch of tracks intersect and the curve of the track is quite steep. seeing the 4014 swing out over it is incredible
ruclips.net/video/KAlK61l6yQI/видео.htmlsi=4C3Vh7aRQ8B732F0
this is another great video that shows the big boy coming into duluth, Minnesota.
im not the biggest bigboy fan, but even i gotta apreciate that whistle echoing through the valley. theres honestly nothing in this world quite like the sound of a big steamer singing the song of its people through scenery like this.
That echo at 9:29-gives me chills every time.
9:40
This whistle transports me instantly to the edge of the prairie on a moonless night where several heavy storms are brewing a few miles away, but the skies are already quite bright with flashes electricity, so I seek shelter in a railroad station, and as I turn to close the door from the weather, a long freight train pulled by one of these monuments of engineering thunders by at more top speed than it should be, having descended the nearby mountains, right into the center of the bad weather...
The next day the storms have passed and the telegraph lines are full of news of destruction, disaster and death in untellable numbers, neither I nor the stationmaster are sure if the train last night was real. Some hours after daybreak early reports come in over the southern telegraph lines, which have been spared by nature, of a bad derailment with a completely wrecked train and the total collapse of the nearest bridge.
That echo is so haunting. I saw 4014 and I even got to go inside the cab of one of its siblings 4006 and when I was in the cab, it felt like going back in time. When steam was king
them using the smoke deflector was something i wasn't expecting but when I first saw a video of it i was blown away that they actually kept that operable
This was an amazing experience for the railfans among us. Catch you on the high iron at the Colorado Railroad Museum or wherever your next adventure is, Mark.
I fully agree with your 1000ft view on the drone snafu. sometimes railfans can be our own least self aware group.🙃
What a day this was. My Dad and I started our chase at Auburn about 9AM. That was the first time I ever saw it running in person, and it was on a huge bridge over highway 80. Couldn’t get to Colfax because there were just too many people, so we went up to a place I found in Gold Run I thought would be ahead of everyone. It was, we were only like the third car to get there. Of course, 4014 hit a tree, so it didn’t get to us for about five hours, but it was all worth it to see that thing run by making up time. Just wish we could have kept going; too bad we had work the next day!
I didn’t see this beast on the roll unfortunately, but I saw it while it was in Roseville. Cameras really don’t do it justice how big it is.
We have the same problem and Antique Tractor Plow and or Harvesting days with drones and on lookers. What makes it even worse is everyone is riding in 4x4 Side By Sides and get right up within a couple feet of the moving equipment! All its going to take is something to break and injure someone and no more Plow days! I agree with your view points.
I saw a video on Instagram of the hood deflector coming off as 4014 came out of a tunnel and it was very cool to see that angle!
I SAW HIM!!! I posted a video of it in the discord. He was handsome for sure. I woukda felt honored if my video ended up in here lol. I only heard the helper diesel kick on when they rolled over the switch, and he rolled coal accelerating up. It was the coolest experience ever. It was so cool.
The ACEs always remind me of those guys who are crown balding. The pattern of balding where the hair is gone from the top but its still full all around.
I went and saw 4014 when it stopped here in UT. Twas big and twas boy...... But probably more impressively was it was just there. All 25 of the UP Big Boys were built because of UT and it was fun to see it in the state that kind of was the reason for it to be. From what I could see in the lineup on it, there was a single diesel in sight and it was in reverse so I can only imagine that it was there to help stop the 600 ton locomotive plus all the extra stuff connected on it. In otherwords, I don't think it was running with a diesel, it was running on its own. The diesel was there to stop it as best it could.
Yes and no on the drone footage, Yes, OMG that footage was amazing and we need more, No, it can cause a distraction/possible safety issue, there might be a way to make it work with all parties in agreement, and i hope so, because that footage was so good!
I'm also secretly hoping an a agreement can be made, I would be FLOORED to see more incredible FPV footage that UP could put out officially!
wow, that whistle was like an entire song. That was fantastic
I saw it yesterday at the Ogden Union station. It is a beautiful piece of machinery.
That 2nd shot was a lesser grade of about 1%, a major flat spot for the 2% on either side, we can really pick up speed through there. The average grade on the Mountain is about 2.43% with some spots that get to 3%. with 80 miles of this a constant reverse curves all the way up, this was the hardest route this engine has ever worked in its life.
Imagein that sound coming out during the night time. God that echo thru out the land scape. watching the airal shot had to take some skill but the shot with the big boy moving slow. It look like slow motion but everyone is doing their normal walking speed. Big boy can going to a crawl while everything else stands still the the big boy steam train just keeps on going.
The safety thing, we can look at what happen with the Canadian Pacific 2816 in Mexico and the fact they will never go back to Mexico because of it.
To be fair, the PTC thing was more for the FRA regulations and the ease of running mainline trips as a result. As for the grade, ANY steam locomotive going up that steep of a grade is GOING to smoke like a banshee no matter what. And I'm pretty sure the diesel is only on for the requirement of dynamic brakes because it has to be active for them to function. In reality, the train 4014 is currently running on is probably only about 5 to 600 tons without the diesel and 2 water tenders. If you factor in those, you're looking at maybe just over 1000 tons at most 1200. That's an EXCEPTIONALLY light train consist for most steamers let alone a 7000 horsepower 610 ton titan. Heck the freight consist she ran on with all them new UP cars probably only weighed about 350 to 400 tons at the very most. You'd need to calculate how much each car weighs for the accurate answer. But all those freight cars were empty so each car only weighed around 30 tons. So it's actually been a VERY light consist the whole time though it's been decently long. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if they did run 4014 on longer consists from now on simply because the engine is in fact broken in and ready for that kind of work. Does that mean we'll get another 143 car double stack intermodal train powered by steam over Sherman Hill?? Yeah probably not in our wildest dreams unless Ed really loses his mind lmfao
At 6:47 I was there chasing it and it was spectacular, I really should edit my video of that lol
6:41 So that's what the doodad on that one Broadway Limited Imports Big Boy is! On BLI's website, one of their latest run of HO-scale Big Boys has some weird shroud thing covering the stacks. I couldn't figure out what it was (probably because I was too lazy to read the entire product description), but it's the smoke deflector. Looks like it's an optional add-on included with all of the Big Boys in this run. But I was scratching my head like an idiot (because I are one!) trying to figure out what the heck it was. Many thanks, Hyce!
This is UPs policy and what they say about individuals flying drones
The person who did those drone rules not only broke what Union Pacific says but I’m also sure broke multiple FAA rules
-Union Pacific operates in a safety-sensitive environment. Never operate a drone in a manner that could distract or otherwise endanger yourself, Union Pacific employees, equipment or the public.
-All drone pilots must operate in compliance with applicable Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) regulations and safety guidelines. Flying a drone or other small unmanned aerial vehicle without complying with Federal Aviation Regulations, whether for hobby or commercial purposes, could result in civil fines or criminal action. For further information, refer to the FAA Drone Zone, as well as applicable state and local laws and regulations.
-Drones may not take off from or land on Union Pacific property unless the pilot is authorized to do so in writing by a specific agreement with Union Pacific.
Yeah I can't say I'm surprised.
When it comes to the FAA's rules and regulations they've been retooled in recent years to allow for commercial pilots like myself to attain footage like this, there's a pinned comment at the top with a link to the FAA's website if you're curious to read up the exact words from them.
Thanks for sharing this with us, a pity about not having the cab-forward isn't in working order but it would've been nice infront of 4014 going up these mountains, there not hills. Double heading of course? One Australian very happy.
Those chime whistles are awesome! Many Australian steam locos were fitted with them. They sound so much better than the ‘peep peep’ of a traditional steam whistle.
4014 was probably working the hardest after it hit the tree in Auburn, California. Between Auburn and Colfax would appear to have been where it was pushed the hardest from every video I've seen and the video I shot at East Weimar Crossroads in Weimar, California. Old Man must have been pushing 50 or 60 up that stretch of the hill
DJ of DJ's Trains is a CSX Engineer and a drone pilot. He has things to say about flying drones around railroad property.
I think the valve that brings up the smoke reflectors just operates both sides of the deflectors. More often than not when you'd see a 4000 with only 1 side of the hood up back in the day it was usually because one side of the hood wasn't working properly.
I've seen Big Boy in Cheyenne (live in Wyoming) but not running. This was epic! And the drone video was crazy, but yeah, dangerous!
I know how to run this engine.... well... I know how to run this engine in TSC. As a European this is one of the iconic engines I heard about way before the internet was a thing. (The other one would be the FEF 3/UP844 in my case) and it was the first steam DLC I ever purchased for Railworks I believe it was called back then. Always amazing to see footage of the real thing.
@SpottingByTheBay posted a video a few days ago - Chasing Union Pacific Big Boy 4041 - with an overhead shot of the smoke deflectors engaging just before a tunnel. 2:58 minute mark.
the excessive smoke may be due to the air density loss due to elevation. so they may need more air flow up at altitude than down at sea level.
What a beautiful machine!
I have a couple videos on channel of it going through the Truckee area. One video is at the horseshoe curve and you can hear the tension in the tracks just before it comes into view, with the ability to see the articulation in the front.
There's something so raw and primal about steam engines. Modern Diesel electrics will outperform them, but when you have a steam engine as big as Big Boy hurtling up that grade under full steam... There's nothing like it. It looks like a wild animal.
With respect to the smoke deflector: Hey, aren't those things usually supposed to deflect smoke up for protection of the crew? This does the opposite. Anyway, the idea I had for mercy to the crew is that since they have the diesel operational anyway, they could take 4014 down to idle as they enter the tunnel (might still need the deflector, but at least would make less steam and smoke) and crank the diesel up; then, when they get out of the tunnel, turn 4014 back up to full power and take the diesel down to idle, thereby minimizing the time of non-idle operation of both combustion-powered locomotives in the tunnel.
That Diesel is purring along helping Big Boy up hill.
Oh man I have a great low angle video showing off how hard it was working up that grade!
Reminds me of when the 611 pulled a train up the Saluda Grade way back when. I don't remember how steep it was but I believe it was over 4%. They split the train before the steep pull so there was only 4 or 5 cars behind it and it got within a stone's throw of the summit and spun out on a curve. They were about to call the helper diesels on standby to bring it to the top but they raided the sand buckets and put sand on the tracks in front of the engine until it was clear of the curve and they somehow got it started on that steep grade and got all the way to the top. I remember seeing a video somewhere where they matched up the event from inside and outside the cars because it happened as they were interviewing one of the people manning the brakes in case it lost grip suddenly. You got to watch it happen from a bystander's point of view and the interview's point of view simultaneously. It's always fun to hear them working hard like that.
The drove flyover was amazing yet dangerous in my opinion and also it make me think of the free camera in train simulator for how it moves