I recently changed out my 05 Mazdaspeed NB Miata (MX5) turbo 6 speed with a Kmiata mod kit (lightened flywheel) and Getrag/BMW ZF 6 speed box, standard BMW clutch, the rattle is not as bad as that but still noisy at times on certain RPM range. I may have to change out to an ACT brand sprung clutch to quiet it down some. For what its worth, its running about the 400rwhp mark.
Correct. This same transmission was quiet when it had a stock dual mass flywheel and clutch. The rattle noise comes from a small amount of clearance between gear teeth on the input shaft and countershaft inside the gearbox. A piston engine delivers power in small pulses as each cylinder fires, which creates a torsional vibration at the crankshaft. A normal clutch assembly has springs in the disc to help absorb the torsional vibration, or a dual mass flywheel with springs + added weight to smooth out the vibration. When you remove the springs or remove mass, the vibrations from the engine get transmitted more directly to the gearbox and you start hearing the gear teeth rattling against each other. This video clip does a decent job showing what a DMF does. ruclips.net/video/DbvP5EvpUbA/видео.html
shit that is loud and annoying but who cares. Im about to order this kit through Bimmerworld, Do you recommend it for racing/track use as compared to other units?
I've used stock DMF + Sachs clutch, UUC stage 2, and Tilton OT-II in this car over the years. The Tilton is grabby and solid when engaged but can still be slipped a little getting around the paddock or loading on my trailer. You just don't want to put too much heat into it. With the dual disc 7.25", pedal feel is near stock. There's no way I'd use it on the street because of the alarming noise - but for a track-only clutch I'd say it's really, really good. Better than stock or the UUC.
Yes it does, but in my experience the deceleration noise is directly related to which transmission mounts I use. Stiffer/harder material = more noise - at least in this car.
@@MajorDiscomfort Yes - I have a GS6-53 transmission in my E36 with a lightwheel flywheel & twin disc clutch kit, poly trans & engine mounts. It makes similar noise to yours at idle and you can hear the transmission gear lash when decelerating. There's always some compromise with performance!
Do you what this video means? It means I just threw out a perfectly good ZF320Z. *Facepalm It was a $200 JY trans so not a big deal. But still, I see now that noise is normal. I thought for sure it was input shaft bearing.
I scrapped a transmission years ago too - before discovering how noisy they can be when lightweight flywheels are used. It's easy to mistake gear rattle for a bad input shaft bearing. I posted this so people might understand what a LWF sounds like before dropping one in a street car and then thinking something's broken. The Tilton is an extreme case... it's especially loud because 1) this is a gutted car with zero insulation, 2) the entire flywheel and dual disc clutch weighs just 16lbs, and 3) unlike a standard pressure plate it has 2 solid puck discs ratting around inside a solid carrier. It does hook up though. Engagement is lightning quick and smooth. Very easy to drive. Awesome for the track, WAY too noisy for street use.
@@MajorDiscomfort I have the same Tilton Twin on mine, though I dont have much seat time with it. Moving it around the yard it is definitely a slippable clutch. Probably gets a wee but harder to slip once it's hot. I actually managed to find a brand new ZF320Z for cheap, and installed it, and nearly popped my pants when it made the same sound. The sound is definitely different from what I hear with other applications. Seems like more of a chatter with most transmissions, but it's a loud repetitive knock with the ZF320Z. I also have the Mason clutch pedal and the CDV delete done. Like you said, its truly an amazingly quick clutch action now.
If you have a single-mass lightweight flywheel I wouldn't worry too much. They tend to make gearboxes noisy like this. The Tilton is particularly noisy because it's an extremely light race clutch assembly.
MajorDiscomfort yea it's a single mass bespoke light flywheel with competition stage 4 6puk disc and sacs performance plate.. grabs brilliantly and holds 440 ibft but noise on idle was worrying me. Thanks again
@@goldenvtr just seen your reply there I myself have fitted a bmw 6 speed gearbox to my mk4 Supra once installed I thought the gearbox was scrap so after the 2nd gearbox install I found out it was normal - my rattle is gone if you need the details I'll be glad to help
This clip illustrates an extreme case with a very lightweight race clutch in my gutted track car. But yes, any lightweight flywheel in an E36 results in some increased level of transmission noise. In my daily driver E36 I use a stock (heavy) dual mass flywheel to maintain smoothness and quiet.
@@chamatharavinda3741 If you're talking about crank harmonics, I haven't had any issues with this car over 10+ years of track use. There are also many people who have been running lightweight flywheels in E36s for years with no trouble. For the most part it seems to be how sensitive you are to the increased gearbox noise (which can be substantial and annoying for sure).
@@MajorDiscomfort if it doesn't have any issues like that, actually having a rough sound is also a kool thing...+ performance, I was always wondered why the e36 rev so slowly,
@@MajorDiscomfort it also damages the rod bearings since there is more stress being put on the crankshaft throwing it out of balance since you now are not absorbing any of that chatter, and just allowing it to "run wild"
Авто/Мото
I recently changed out my 05 Mazdaspeed NB Miata (MX5) turbo 6 speed with a Kmiata mod kit (lightened flywheel) and Getrag/BMW ZF 6 speed box, standard BMW clutch, the rattle is not as bad as that but still noisy at times on certain RPM range. I may have to change out to an ACT brand sprung clutch to quiet it down some. For what its worth, its running about the 400rwhp mark.
I can't understand why all e36 sounds like that with a LWF. The main shaft should have lots of play or something.
I just bought a lwfw for my car (not a bmw) and they were recommending a shim kit which I didn’t buy. :) we’ll see how bad it is
Valeo makes a conversion kit from dual mass to single mass its not lightweight however.
I don't mind "roll over" noise at all
Hey, so the noise from the fly wheel isn’t a sign of intense wear correct?
Correct. This same transmission was quiet when it had a stock dual mass flywheel and clutch. The rattle noise comes from a small amount of clearance between gear teeth on the input shaft and countershaft inside the gearbox. A piston engine delivers power in small pulses as each cylinder fires, which creates a torsional vibration at the crankshaft. A normal clutch assembly has springs in the disc to help absorb the torsional vibration, or a dual mass flywheel with springs + added weight to smooth out the vibration. When you remove the springs or remove mass, the vibrations from the engine get transmitted more directly to the gearbox and you start hearing the gear teeth rattling against each other. This video clip does a decent job showing what a DMF does. ruclips.net/video/DbvP5EvpUbA/видео.html
@@MajorDiscomfort ok, Thankyou so much
shit that is loud and annoying but who cares. Im about to order this kit through Bimmerworld, Do you recommend it for racing/track use as compared to other units?
I've used stock DMF + Sachs clutch, UUC stage 2, and Tilton OT-II in this car over the years. The Tilton is grabby and solid when engaged but can still be slipped a little getting around the paddock or loading on my trailer. You just don't want to put too much heat into it. With the dual disc 7.25", pedal feel is near stock. There's no way I'd use it on the street because of the alarming noise - but for a track-only clutch I'd say it's really, really good. Better than stock or the UUC.
Did the transmission also make noise on deceleration?
Yes it does, but in my experience the deceleration noise is directly related to which transmission mounts I use. Stiffer/harder material = more noise - at least in this car.
@@MajorDiscomfort Yes - I have a GS6-53 transmission in my E36 with a lightwheel flywheel & twin disc clutch kit, poly trans & engine mounts. It makes similar noise to yours at idle and you can hear the transmission gear lash when decelerating. There's always some compromise with performance!
Do you what this video means? It means I just threw out a perfectly good ZF320Z. *Facepalm It was a $200 JY trans so not a big deal. But still, I see now that noise is normal. I thought for sure it was input shaft bearing.
I scrapped a transmission years ago too - before discovering how noisy they can be when lightweight flywheels are used. It's easy to mistake gear rattle for a bad input shaft bearing. I posted this so people might understand what a LWF sounds like before dropping one in a street car and then thinking something's broken. The Tilton is an extreme case... it's especially loud because 1) this is a gutted car with zero insulation, 2) the entire flywheel and dual disc clutch weighs just 16lbs, and 3) unlike a standard pressure plate it has 2 solid puck discs ratting around inside a solid carrier. It does hook up though. Engagement is lightning quick and smooth. Very easy to drive. Awesome for the track, WAY too noisy for street use.
@@MajorDiscomfort I have the same Tilton Twin on mine, though I dont have much seat time with it. Moving it around the yard it is definitely a slippable clutch. Probably gets a wee but harder to slip once it's hot. I actually managed to find a brand new ZF320Z for cheap, and installed it, and nearly popped my pants when it made the same sound. The sound is definitely different from what I hear with other applications. Seems like more of a chatter with most transmissions, but it's a loud repetitive knock with the ZF320Z. I also have the Mason clutch pedal and the CDV delete done. Like you said, its truly an amazingly quick clutch action now.
i have this same noise with my getrag 6speed, how has it been racing etc?
It works great in use. It's just hilariously loud at idle.
good to know, ive been paranoid its going to shit itself (2jz supra with getrag 6speed m3 gearbox conversion). thanks for the reply :) nice videos btw
If you have a single-mass lightweight flywheel I wouldn't worry too much. They tend to make gearboxes noisy like this. The Tilton is particularly noisy because it's an extremely light race clutch assembly.
MajorDiscomfort yea it's a single mass bespoke light flywheel with competition stage 4 6puk disc and sacs performance plate.. grabs brilliantly and holds 440 ibft but noise on idle was worrying me. Thanks again
@@goldenvtr just seen your reply there I myself have fitted a bmw 6 speed gearbox to my mk4 Supra once installed I thought the gearbox was scrap so after the 2nd gearbox install I found out it was normal - my rattle is gone if you need the details I'll be glad to help
that sucks, i dont want a LWF
This clip illustrates an extreme case with a very lightweight race clutch in my gutted track car. But yes, any lightweight flywheel in an E36 results in some increased level of transmission noise. In my daily driver E36 I use a stock (heavy) dual mass flywheel to maintain smoothness and quiet.
@@MajorDiscomfort if we kept the noise factor aside, what about this damaging engine thing that everyone is talking about? will it have a big issue?
@@chamatharavinda3741 If you're talking about crank harmonics, I haven't had any issues with this car over 10+ years of track use. There are also many people who have been running lightweight flywheels in E36s for years with no trouble. For the most part it seems to be how sensitive you are to the increased gearbox noise (which can be substantial and annoying for sure).
@@MajorDiscomfort if it doesn't have any issues like that, actually having a rough sound is also a kool thing...+ performance, I was always wondered why the e36 rev so slowly,
@@MajorDiscomfort it also damages the rod bearings since there is more stress being put on the crankshaft throwing it out of balance since you now are not absorbing any of that chatter, and just allowing it to "run wild"