is he written by a woman or is it the bare minimum?
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- Опубликовано: 27 июл 2024
- At some point, we must ask is he a man written by a woman, or is it the bare minimum?
~time stamps~
0:00 - intro
3:37 - the blueprint
6:30 - the female gaze
10:56 - real men written by women
17:26 - final thoughts
~sources~
Female Gaze Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_...
Male Gaze Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_gaze
Harry Styles Rolling Stone Interview
www.rollingstone.com/feature/...
Bo Burnham's Growth Shows The Painfully Low Bar For White Men
www.insider.com/bo-burnham-lo...
~socials~
instagram: / amandapanda767
tiktok: www.tiktok.com/@amandapanda76... 6772018427601257478&tt_from=copy&source=h5_m
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It's interesting to think of why no men of colour come to mind when the term is discussed(I was hard pressed to think of any) Lack of media portrayal? Cultural norms within our community? The white gaze? What algorithms push based on our social media consumption?
THIS!!! I came to say exactly this. I can’t knock her if she’s just attracted to white men, love is love. But it honestly broke my heart as a Black man to know not even one could be thought of. That’s not to be confused as me attacking her, but it’s a testament to how a lot of us feel - as though we often share a lot of the responsibility of being a man and checking privilege, but we’re not counted in anything when it comes to categories of what women might like about men. It makes it a little difficult for some to achieve self-love when everything around you tells you the perfect man is white.
First thing I thought as well
@@IntermissionPrairieWolf I did mean generally mind you. But since then I was wondering if Donald Glover and LaKeith Stanfield fall into that category? And as far as characters maybe Ben from Insecure? I also think spaces white women have these discussions are more visible than where Black women do.
Easy, men written by women are usually white men.
Haha yes definitely seen that reaction to him
We are DEFINITELY over romanticizing them for the bare minimum and it’s sad 😪
@dang_an1 This has got you sexists quite infuriated
@dang_an1 damn, you really are out here replying to every comment. You come off as an incel with mommy issues. I think therapy would do you a lot of good. Good luck!
@dang_an1 typical of a man to blame all his problems on a woman as if he has no agency over his own behavior
@dang_an1 dudes have always done the bare minimum. always.
I think that's kinda weird to say, given that this progressive idea of a man portrayed in media is anything BUT the bare minimum. A lot of men are respectful, somewhat politically educated and decently self aware in everyday life - almost as much as women in my experience. The difference to Media is, they don't have an excellent sense of style and they don't look as pretty as Timothee. Admittedly, they might not understand white privilege or feminism YET, but that literally takes 10 minutes to explain.
So the cause for romanticization of these Ideal Men is their presentation in combination with their character, not their character specifically
its funny bc i would never classify any man i've met irl as "written by a woman." I think this just solidifies the fact that lableling celebrities as "written by a woman" emphasizes that we as fans view these people as characters in our lives, not as real people with flaws.
Contrary to your experience I have actually met a few of them and they are my closest friends now. they are definitely "written by women" I genuinely respect and admire them for growing up so well so human. Their parenting has been done real good as I witnessed it myself ofc they are not perfect but they have some remarkable basic qualities. I want my son/daughter to be like that
no one has to share your opinions about anything to be a good person.
I've been saying this for years. Female gaze can be just as objectifying as the male gaze, it looks different, but it still reduces people to objects. Just because it's female, doesn't automatically make it better
@@iasoing4919 Don't you realize how sexist it sounds to label "men who grew up so well, so human" as "written by women"? Most men are raised by women and tend to have a deeper connection with them compared to their fathers, who were mainly providers... I don't think men need to be like a women wants to be "human", specially since women today care very little about what men want from them, and don't assume that fitting into what we desire makes them better human beings.
@@cristalido3640 agreeing with some of what u told, i dont think you got my point there. I never told they were more like women, just described them as a decent human unlike some others i know. And i mentioned their *parenting* was done well and NOT *their mom raised them*. Again yea the standards are very hard to meet for "written by women" too sometimes it dosent even make sense but i never told anything else was inhumane. All i expect is bare minimum and idk how that is sexist. Everyone has a different set of qualities they like and i cant see where i mentioned anything out of that boundry is lesser human. Maybe my wording sounded wrong previously but i hope its conveyed this time.
I think there’s a lot to be said about “men written by women” in relation to gay men or men who aren’t straight, as many times a straight man will be praised and uplifted for these acts at the same time lgbtq men are outcasted from society for it.
Sad but true 😪
I was talking about this with a coworker the other day. I'm a lesbian, he's gay. And he was telling me that all his straight female friends are really into Harry Styles, Tom Holland, and Timothy Chalemet. Anyway he was basically saying he didn't get the appeal, and his friends are all baffled by it, because they assumed a gay man would go gaga over such "femine" men. And I was thinking about it, I'm not into the girls straight men think are hot either.
I don't know why this is though? Is it because I'm a woman I have different expectations of the women I date? Like maybe some kind of I know what women are like more than a straight man can because I am a woman? And therefore the things I'm attracted to are different?
I don't know but you make a good point.
@Melissa Bennett I was thinking about this before, I always wondered why my attraction to women isn’t rooted in things that are considered “conventionally” attractive, until I realized that a bulk of those things are features almost exclusively catered to what is normally associated with the male gaze. Not to demonize that perspective, but I was limiting my attraction to a standard that was not made for me, it makes sense that I‘m not attracted to things in a woman that a heterosexual man stereotypically would be,, because I don’t identify as one (not to say that all straight men are necessarily attracted to the same things ofc)
totally agree, and as a feminine (gay) man myself I feel sometimes like I'm only supported, or supported more, if I'm seen as fun and entertaining to the straight and bi women around me because of how media teaches them to see me
@@elimh1354 oof, that’s the cishet gaze, ain’t it -_- I say deny them camp and get Byronic to your hearts content: there’s plenty to brood about these days and you can win them over with the righteous of your cause…
I prefer to use the term written by a sane, mentally healthy, non problematic women because there are a lot of men which are written by women and would be a women's worst nightmare in reality.
Twilight and 50 Shades come to mind
cw sa mention
no bc I remember trying to read a book about an autistic woman, by an autistic woman author, and was like “surely it can’t be that bad” only for the guy to ?? Technically assault the mc like 2 chapters in and then kept justifying it (it was from his POV) by being like “im not like other men !! I’m not sleeping with this girl while she’s crying or shivering so this can’t be assault!!” Meanwhile he’s just after telling her to do something intimate she was visibly reluctant to do and had already said 10 seconds ago she didn’t want to do that day 😭😭😭😭 literally wtf
don't get me started on the after series
@spacebuns exactly! That's what I always think when I hear about this phenomenon. Most of romance books, ya and na are written by women and they make their characters absolute trash. Stalkers, assholes, controlling, slut-shaming women that are not the main character, kidnappers(!!!), it's all over the place
@spacebuns OMG RIGHT like it’s sooo hard to find good books T^T that’s why I read fantasy lmao
as annoying as it might be, i think it's important to praise men for being "men written by women" because positive feedback is how people change. if we only complain about what we don't like and never praise what we do, we only get people who are too afraid to do anything at all.
Also there needs to be nuances in situations where "men written by woman" may just be what woman idolize as men. It's like a woman written by a man. It's only for the man's idolization. Some men don't cook or clean often since they work long hours. Some do. Some are tough, some are soft. Some are emotional, some are stoic. It depends on the man and honestly it's not bad to be a man who is not written by a woman. We as people want different hings and that's fine. A good example of a balance of this is this woman called Megan and her husband whom she lovingly refers to as Mr. Moon. He is quiet and not as energetic by still shows affection to his wife but his appearance is that of a tough and stoic man meanwhile megan is a lovely woman whonis bouncy and energetic and serves her husband daily and he does to her. Don't know if that makes sense but there needs to be a balance between what men want and what woman want.
@@armellebiampamba4257 yes!! i agree. when the feminine and masculine are equally valued, we can authentically be who we were meant to be and like what we were meant to like, without socialization putting us in rigid boxes arbitrarily.
@@AmberinTrees completely agree! We may not be equal in every way but both men and women have equal value and masculinity and femininity should be something we work with not against
Holy shit gang? Like honestly though y'all are heroes for us men who are actually trying to not be assholes. We just get hit with the all men are this line or on the otherside we get shunned by other men for trying to breakdown these fucked up misogynistic beliefs. Its even worse for men of color to express their feminine side because mfs will tell you you're gay or white. Which i have no problem with but they use those descriptions as an insult. Fr though I hope we all find someone who actually matches our interests.
@@junsilver honestly it's sad that actual good men get lumped together with every bad man out there. We all need each other and women need men like men need women. Our differences should be celebrated not berated. I hope you realize not all women but men on such a low bar. For one I have male friends who are all over the spectrum in terms of personality. Just makes them who they are and that's that
it’s quite interesting that this has become a trend. as a writer and a woman i used to be overly cautious of a writing a male character deemed this very trope.
Yeah it’s sad honestly
The “Written by a woman” trope isn’t bad though, there are many compelling characters who would probably fall under this category. The problem is when you mistake the bare minimum as some sort of female fantasy of what the ideal man should be.
@@FirstnameLastname-zq8oy It is if you think about it, in my personal opinion men written by women need more deph rather then being their literally for women to be attracted to lmao and it's the same when men write women just for men to be attracted to them.. it's weird, broaden your audience and create a good story.
@@cazbutterfly4229 I feel like social media has kind of watered this trend down just “men doing the bare minimum”. I think a lot of women didn’t write these characters with the intention of creating a male character that corresponds to women’s ideal man, they just created nuanced characters.
write them however you want to write them
In terms of your comments about Hary Styles Id like to bring about the point that Harry a white man was praised for breaking gender stereotypes but male kpop idols have been wearing skirts, nail polish and make up for years before hand but they haven't been praised but were made fun of. It just seems like there is a discrepancy in how men of colour were treated compared to a white man.
I don’t doubt there’s a discrepancy, but there was plenty of “bring back manly men” backlash about Harry’s vogue cover too. He’s received some praise but he’s not received only praise.
oh 100%
@@jaelikesjackalopes I guess it's an issue of getting acknowledged vs not getting acknowledgement.
@dang_an1 I'm not a K-Pop fan, but I would never call it trash. Your racism is showing.
@dang_an1 gurl not u missing the whole point and i am not going to explain further because u don't actually wanna learn
writing men as a woman is hard as fuck. especially when youre rooting for you lead to end up with him
like...he has to be kind but not unrealistic. we're basically writing mythical creatures into realism and hoping they go unnoticed 🤞🏾
Screw that, make nice men the default in your stories. That way, anyone that fails up to live up to the standards of being decent human beings can be ashamed. That's right! I'm gauging male likability as a viable factor in whether or not I enjoy a piece of work.
@@Turquerina absolutely love this take. I think men oftentimes also get away with doing the bare minimum or even significantly less because we let them. Many men are simply never encouraged to reflect their behavior and media portrayel certainly plays a part in that.
@dang_an1Says the guy who obsessively posts on every comment they can find under the sun. Maybe practice what you preach? Just a thought.
@@Turquerina i love how woke you are and i love the emphasis on the "your expectations" part
@@elodie709 im sorry my queen that our efforts are not enough to please you we will try my very best to match the "obvious" bare minimum you show us . I am ashamed.
The way Bo Burnham has managed to transform his brand from racist edge lord to whatever it is he is doing now is really astounding.
i do think he's genuinely learned better at least to a degree but im impressed that he managed to turn his public appearance around to match
@dang_an1 thank you, dang_an1 for this scolding hot take. you know, i really think you brought something important to this conversation. you know, now that you've brought up humor, why don't we hear your comedic stand-up routine? you know, just to learn what you think comedy is, considering most of his current work is about pretty serious and non-funny topics where humor doesn't really apply to the overall message.
@@chasethdevil nah he more of an andrew tate kinda mans😂
I mean, I don't think he was really racist Bo Burnham was more like a character everything was just comedy.
We Stan good character development
I think if we are to take anything from the "man written by a woman" archetype, it would be to take the praise in the bare minimum of men and rather praise people who actually do above the bare minimum. But the thing is, "men written by a woman" are praised for their gender first and not necessarily for their actions/them as a person first. It's seeing that these people are white, abled, heterosexual, cis men is the first strict standard of a love interest or person and their heart as last. I wish more people could see people as the person they are as opposed to what stereotypes they fall or don't fall under.
that makes me wonder, what is above the bare minimum? like buying a woman a house or smth? if making her a meal is worthy of documentation (like posting ur man cooking on tiktok), what does she do if he saves up to actually give her something valuable, lmao? is it met w skepticism? opposition? fear? or is that what marriage is for? maybe those gestures come w time in the relationship? i've never actually been in a relationship since im a teen, but i cannot imagine being w someone who doesn't do basic things for me.
@@meaganolivia that's what I was wondering too. The bar is so low that these things are already considered a high achievement, it's making it hard for me to imagine what could be beyond that. I'm sure I could think of something if I put more effort into it, but that I need to at all is quite sad.
@@cryfly1 lol I like how when the dudes who aren't assholes but see the flaw in this way of thinking put up good points but then these girls disappear from the conversation as soon as they realize of shit this mf bout to call me out for being a hypocrite
i was waiting for somebody to at that omg
@@meaganolivia no men is obligated to do any of this things for you. It is his choice.
Several girls who were in classes with Timothee at NYU said he fatshamed and laughed at/mocked girls for their bodies. He always gave douchey vibes so it’s ironic to see how people put him on a pedestal because he’s “pretty” and awkward seeming.
men can get away with the bare minimum, the bar is in hell; lower than low.
Right not only in NYU but in his former high school LaGuardia I believe there was a whole viral thread on Twitter about it
her need to answer for this tbh cause he ain't say ish about it. He must still hold these views cause he hasn't acknowledged the criticism at ALL.
@👾natalie.33 The proof is in the furthest corner of their ass lol. They are making that up.
@@kimberleywilliams7802 He doesn't have to do anything. touch grass immediately.
Here is why personality traits of these behaviors cannot be the "bare minimum."
First, we're born with different predispositions to certain personality traits, including empathy, extroversion/introversion, impulsiveness, etc., so people pick up on different cues than others and have different emotional needs that cannot be projected onto others who are not like them. Not every woman wants the same things from a partner, including personality traits, so these behaviors that you highlight can actually be overbearing or manipulative (in the covert contract/co-dependency sense) to some. Manners are also different from culture to culture, so this language and these expectations are actually culturally imposing. Also, people have different life circumstances, so, for example, a deployed soldier can't perform the same "bare minimum" behaviors as a boyfriend home on summer vacation. People also have different handicaps, so these bare minimums can be pretty ableist.
Second, no one seems to be able to define what falls above the "bare minimum" in these comments, because everyone has different standards for bare minimum. For some, it's paying for dates or practicing cotillion-like manners, and for others it's several international trips a year, shopping sprees, an allowance, donating kidneys, ignoring other important aspects of your life to essentially worship them, etc. What's funny is that people often expect things from their partner that they would never do themselves, i.e. paying for dates or trips, making breakfast in bed, etc. Also, just because your partner does these things, it doesn't mean they're a good person. They may just be trading favors because that's what's expected as the bare minimum." For example, if you've ever seen the film Inglourius Bast*rds, there's an enititled male character who does all of the "bare minimum" but doesn't take "no" for an answer.
Third, people are not willing to get to know someone's personality unless that person meets pre-set qualifications that differ from person to person, aka the checklist, which includes checkboxes like height, weight, race, class, socio-economic status, religion, and all of the other filters you find on apps like Bumble. Those are the real bare minimums before you get to know someone, so personality/compatibility/manners are cherry-on-top qualities in the sequence of what people look at.
Fourth, "bare minimum" language is often entitlement language that tries to say everyone should follow certain behaviors that not everyone agrees about in terms of relational satisfaction. It also breeds entitlement in the other side, who thinks if they perform certain behaviors, they can win people over, which is not the case. Finally, this language minimizes the positive qualities of certain individuals, which encourages them to not do those things if someone feels entitled to them.
No one is perfect, so maybe we shouldn't expect people to be? Maybe we should celebrate people going out of their way to please their partners within the boundaries of what they're capable of? Expecting more is seeing people as less than human objects meant to meet your personal desires, as if they're machines.
EXACTLY!! Saying stuff like "men written by women" can also appropriate its counter-part "women written by men" as being positive. Both can definitely be unhealthy expectations in how "perfect" they are supposed to act towards the opposite sex. A person isn't supposed to be written for anyone, everyone messes up sometimes. People have flaws, and as long as they're not deal-breakers, you have to accept or compromise in order to truly love someone.
this is one of the best comments i've read in a while, the entire conversation about responsibilities/expectations in dynamics between people, whether it's platonic or romantic, has always seemed so overly complex to me, i'd much rather appreciate a person as a whole instead of just the sum of their parts
Yooooo you fucking snapped 🔥🔥🔥🔥
I respect you so much for saying this! I wholeheartedly agree with everything that you have said
Couldnt've said it better myself
what y'all call the bare minimum is a perfect human being. Most of y'all don't even be doing the bare minimum either. It's called being a good person or trying that's really what we want.
Facts can’t be expecting someone to be bringing you breakfast in bed and so on when you struggle to make a sandwich without them asking so honestly I’d say don’t expect the world from your partner when you can’t offer them the same effort
The girls in the comment section are the type of women that are talked about in blackpill and the likes
Also, "white." I think the socially normed bare minimum is also just being a white male. Even within all the examples in this video, predominantly all white women, men, people. I think main characters syndrome is an extension of white individualism. Soft boy also is inherently white, like clean girl is inherently white. Even the liturature discussed has been white. We should discuss the whiteness of it all.
Yeah. You’re right. It might be better for people to consider that things like this is white culture. When black ppl and other non white people dismiss white culture we will all be free. It’s like whatever white ppl are doing Everyone tries to adhere to, and algorithms are pushing these ideas as well.this whole written by a this that is white culture. Like- if these are were all black ppl doing this ppl would see it as black culture and not try to take part in it? Ppl as in all ‘POC’ and white people.
Very true 🧍♀️
Or how about white men are more prone to having these character traits. Get over it.
Black men have to always be 'tough'.
@@syasyaishavingfun Im sorry, is that not the image they portray for themselves in music, movies and real life? Do they not glorify gang violence misogyny and the degradation of the women and children of their community? Let’s not. I’m tired of black women putting on a cape for these disrespectful groups of males while we are the least protected and most of not all of black women’s problems stems from the very group of males who we’re always on the front lines for. That ain’t it sis just stop. I have to say something because this pick me mammy ish runs deep with us and at this point with all this information out about the reality of the BC none of us should be this dense. Burn that cape and let these males figure sh!t out for themselves. Let them rewrite their own image.
There’s something to be said about the images crafted for male kpop idols. Their appeal lies deeply in the “written by a woman” trope and their publicist and managers play it up as much as possible when it comes to their promotion. Side note: I’m thinking Michael Jackson is the modern figure head for all of this.
i mean many of their stylists and makeup artists and managers and choreographers are women so they have a lot of say in the way they are portrayed
@@angel127_ but men are still at highest positions when it comes to kpop industry
I agree. But I can also say that they DO NOT get a choice when they are styles ESPECIALLY as rookies. Just a PSA.
@@anyone1111 I guess I didn’t clearly mention this but that was the point of my comment. Their styles are purposely constructed in a way that makes them seem really sensitive to women (not to say they’re aren’t good people anyway) but these guys are literally written tropes especially when they’re rookies like you mentioned. It’s interesting to me because these are supposed to be real life individuals and not characters in a movie but their entire public existence is being directed. And just to be clear I don’t this applies to all of them but it is certainly true for the majority. Now for the female idols they too have a trope but that a whole other rabbit hole.
@@naufrage0 I absolutely agree and I actually was just feeling like there’s a specific group that I listen to with a very interesting concept as they’re about to have a come back. And I was thinking how awesome of a concept they were doing, but in the back of my mind I was like it just doesn’t seem like I was aware that they are styled. That somebody choreographed this, produced this, and did the cinematography and camera work. And being aware of that and then still watching the teaser for their come back it felt weird so I absolutely understand and yes it’s fascinating!! Also I’m sorry I came off as rude. Have a blessed day.
So today I realized that (not all) female writers write male love interests in either two extremes:
a respectable guy with unrealistic amounts of kindness and perfection to the point he's not human like he's some angel or God that forgives all of humanity's sins
Or
The most toxic and borderline or extremely abusive boyfriend with so many red flags you wonder why FMC doesn't see then or why she stills stay with him when this guy should get a restraining order
Be seeing these types of guys in fanfics a lot
Angels don't forgive, God is the forgiver .
I always hear about niceness being the "bare minimum," but I'm curious, what would "above the bare minimum" for men look like?
Honestly, I don't even know
The one who goes above and beyond to make you happy guess
@@carolinpurayidom4570
That’s the average, a man who’d die for you…hahah nah. In 2022 is not worthy, they’ll call rapist, toxic , sexist or an opressor
I think this:
Being respectful of others even when they are not in the room. That shows their true colours and goes beyond common respect . How do they speak about anyone when they are not there?
Having control. Many men cannot control themselves when it comes to women. They see attraction above everything and cannot be in a relationship. Being a extremely loyal partner who is all in is a rare character trait both sexes fail to have these days. The bear minimum would be not to cheat, but there are many relationships where cheating doesn’t happen but there is zero effort from the man/guy.
And lastly doing extra effort to make the girl/women happy. Outdo doing the bare minimum.
Yeah I can't help but think people think of kindness as being 'bare minimum'. Okay and? its a good thing. I really don't get this concept. 🤷🏾♀ Its seems like its too subjective.
“Bare minimum”
“Writes poetry, cooks and cleans, sends you good morning texts, writes books about the patriarchy, is a feminist, saves cats from trees and the elderly cross the street, reads books about privilege.”
While this video is interesting, I would say that an average looking, financially unsuccessful guy would not be fantasized over by women just for being respectful and kind. They might think he's a nice guy but that doesn't mean they're going to be romantically involved with him. I would also add changing your entirely personality for a women who has not even committed to you, is certainly not the "bare minimum", treating your love interest like some idol who you need to change yourself for is a pretty unrealistic expectation. Just like a lot of fantasies, they are just that, fantasies. We should not expect people to meet our fantasies of the world the same way we would not expect women to meet expectations of male fantasies.
Agreed, this whole "bare minimum" trend is an echochamber of young women convincing themselves that their fantasies are realistic, and not entitlement. Honestly the same thing as the redpill and tradwives trend.
IMO all these people should lay down tiktok for a minute.
No real men would act like that. How is this the bare minimum to some?
Because they live in a fantasy inside their minds.
It's not really fair to call behaviors like these the bare minimum, especially when talking about real men.
Fictional men have the luxury of having money, an abundance of free time to devote to the love interest, no external stressors, or the fact that they live in a country where doing things like this is possible. Real life is not that simple.
A lot of things have to be considered before labeling something as the "bare minimum". If a man did these things for me irl I'd wouldn't take it that way.
Or is he just white?
THIS
Ngl this doesn't make as much sense as you think it does. Will explain later
Lmao honestly!!!!
@@V3inmistress explain?
@leo Like let’s be honest. Many of us are obsessed with it one way or another
Timothée's career is bizarre in that he has been able to successfully profit off this "written by a woman" trope and has unintentionally paved a foundation for this idea. It's something cinema rarely sees: a male actor, especially one so young, becoming successful not because of the ultra-masculinity of the characters he plays but rather how effeminate his roles can be. If we think about the most successful and well known male actors of our time, they were known for channeling and even pioneering what it meant to be a man of the decade, faces like Carey Grant in the 50s, Sean Connery in the 60s and Brad Pitt in the late 90s comes to mind. Now we're seeing a gradual shift in masculinity and how men like Chalamet are actually able to have a career in film by flipping the script on what it is to be a man and adopting traits stereotypically associated with being female. It makes me wonder whether this softness and new age approach to masculinity is a fleeting moment in our time and maybe we're too quick to use Chalamet's success as an actor as a way of confirming that the "written by a woman" man will remain concrete in our society or is even a positive thing.
Johnny Depp?
Leonardo Dicaprio?🤨
Jared Leto?
I never really got how the standards for women are supposedly impossibly high, but the standards fo men like, "be super tall, strong, rich, handsome, white, a defender, a cook, super agreeable yet confident and assertive, sensitive and in touch with your feelings, creative, and super competent at everything", are considered bare minimum.
It’s definitely a two way street. It’s unfair that men are expected to be strong and assured all the time, whilst women are supposed to be passive and polite. The standards for men and women are both stupidly unrealistic. The conversation should be about how to solve both rather than deciding which one is worse. As long as either stereotype is portrayed and upheld, society’s views and treatment of both groups will continue to be harmful.
I think people in general just tend to have above-average standards, men and women alike, regardless of how they see themselves or how other people see them. That alone means that the average person is going to have a hard time finding someone who’s standards they meet, and constant rejection or constant abuse will make people blame the opposite gender. The truth is, everyone wants the best for themselves, and everyone is pretty flawed, so we’re all kinda just screwing ourselves over.
@@christiedruman Men's standards are much much worse considering 90% of men are perceived to be below average by women (something that should be statistically impossible). That being said, there are some unnecessary restrictions around women's nature as well
You got a point. Men's atracttiveness is defined by things they cant change like their jawline, simetry, race, bone structure in general, height, etc.
I know its hard to conceive for young progressive girls that they dont like POC men. Maybe some Tyrones every now and then, but they LOVE white cock.
Men can go decades without even being complimented and all that at the beginning is considered the bare minimum.
i have literally never been this early but just by the title i can tell u right now, u are right. it is the bare minimum. every time.
Lmfaoo sad but true 😭
Now I’m just wondering, what is exceeding the bare minimum
Why can’t people just be attracted to other’s unique attributes. I’m tired of people just watching movies, pointing at the screen and saying, “I want that, and if I meet someone who isn’t exactly like that I’m breaking up!”
what a great video! i don't use tiktok but i feel like this trend is very much alive everywhere on the internet
it feels kind of bittersweet because on the one hand, we obviously want men to act like decent people and on the other hand i get annoyed when i find myself being impressed by a man literally doing/saying/etc. the bare minimum lol
Since when being a selfless generous and kind person open to new ideas is a bear minimum?
@@AG-oi6xt To a lot of women, even donating a kidney to the woman is the bare minimum. Don't be confused brother, women are entitled.
Personally I find a lot of the k-pop boys do match this character of "men being written by women". off course we can say, they too are playing a character but they do show the characteristics of caring, kind etc etc.
Until you realize most are racist, classist, islamophobic, etc...
Bang chan
Jimin
K-pop like American boy bands are all manufactured .
It's really simple. These film makers and other producers find men who are seen as physically attractive by the majority of women online: typically 25 and under. They use these actors in roles that have an appealing personality to women.
Sure, these dudes probably aren't like this in real life, but women project these positive qualities on them.
I like your perspective on this topic but I think we use this bare minimum phrase too much these days, things like being kind and respectful is not the bare minimum at least not in the society I grew up in.
We have to talk about how many coming-of-age movies had female gaze on it, which makes sense actually.
According to this video "tall" is part of the bare minimun, even if tall height is something relative to your own enviroment, a 1.6 metres men is tall in a land of 1.5 metres average height and a 2 metres guy is short if the average is 2.2 metres.
Lmao, being short is toxic masculity I guess
Not to mention that he must have floppy brown hair and unfairly long eyelashes...and write poetry? Are we now forcing people to be what they are not/do things they don't want?
Bare minimum for men = be tall and have a handsome face. It’s that easy, bro!
Just hit the jackpot on the birth lottery dude
Didn't you hear ? Being a short balding man is toxic masculinity. BE BETTER.
The phrase "men are doing the bare minimum" is really an insult to every guy who tries to overcome the toxic masculinity he was raised to exhibit. I get the feeling that many girls/women think of "being a good man" as merely a question of wanting to. In this fictional world once you decide you want to respect women and to show your emotions the rest comes naturally on its own. What gets left out of the picture is the question of being able to do so. Now before anyone gets at me for making excuses for men, this is not my intention. The majority of men are still deeply sexist and don't even see the need to change. We should call them out at every opportunity we get. But for those of us who try to change and want to listen it is very much a constant struggle for identity. And the issue is not with where you want to end up with (respecting women, not overstepping boundaries, etc.) but with how to get there. You are constantly failing, either in adhering to toxic masculine traits which you actively and openly try to leave behind or in becoming a "better" man because a) you were raised to be a pain in the ass for every women you are going to meet and b) there is always something you can improve on/ educate yourself on. The bare minimum can be a mighty lot coming from a person who is raised and socialized as a toxic man. When rage or isolation are the only ways in which negative emotion can find a way to the surface introspection and change are very much an uphill battle.
Excellent point. It's not really "bare minimum" if you started out at subzero. I see that minimum mindset in a lot of different areas. It's like people forget you have to TEACH people things. And very few who want the "bare minimum" seem to lead by example.
It's a lot of work to unlearn bad behavior and it seems like nobody want to "praise" them for their effort and growth. Like, I hate to break it to you, but kindness, praise, and encouragement are how you bring betterment out of people. It's like they expect people to do all the work on their own, without no help, and no encouragement, and just be satisfied with that. Because it's "the bare minimum."
At first this trend thing felt reasonable. But the more prevalent it is, the more it feels like "we don't have to do anything for men cuz they're men" territory. It's hypocrisy.
what is "toxic masculinity"?
Most of the masculine traits I know benefit men for who they are.
How are those things called 'the bare minimum'
Literally the best on RUclips, so fun, so informative, so fresh, so clever, so down to earth. I love it, Thank you
You're forgetting the most important reason why a lot of guys can't even meet this standard, WE ARE BREADWINNERS. Every woman I've ever met wants a man with momentum and/or potential for the future. We gotta have a good career and stability. So on top of making decent money which is a 8 hour task every day, we gotta do EVERYTHING that women traditionally do and now you call that the bare minimum. On top of that none of this matters if we aren't handsome or reach a certain height criteria which is fair, everyone has their preferences. Yet the women in these romantic comedies provide absolutely NOTHING in return except stand there and look pretty
In order for anyone to make good money from a good career, you have to be a little disagreeable and tough. The truth is, all these unicorn men are really just good at switching between a few facades. The way they treat women is fantastic except for the fact that such an attitude would render you as a weakling in front of other men, so he's gotta switch and not show that side of him to the woman in his life. Look at Aragorn in LOTR, he's absolutely the most gentle and warm husband you can find when he's around his wife Arwen, absolutely ruthless and aggressive in a fight, and totally dominant (yet caring) when he's with other men. Realistically, I think he is the IDEAL ideal man that embodies both traits that attract women yet command respect from men
100% agree with this!
And yeah, Aragorn is a great role model for everyone. There are many good male characters in Lord of the Rings too like Sam, Frodo, King Theoden, Faramir, Boromir and Gandalf (etc.)
I am a girl and I find it easy relating to any of these male characters.
This is mostly my observation, but as someone who grew up in a third world/developing country here in Asia, most fathers or males belonging to the middle and lower class, have physically demanding jobs like working in construction sites and buildings, farming, fishing, mining, "kargador" (basically getting paid for carrying very heavy stuffs) and so on. Sometimes, it's kinda mindblowing to me how men can continue doing these almost "impossible" stuff for a living. I even admire drivers (of public transportations like jeeps and buses) for getting up every darn day knowing that it's not only a job but also a noble service to others as well. Here in my place, most people don't have the privilege of having and owning private vehicles so we heavily rely on the services of these jeep drivers. Longs hours and distance to travel but they still stick with their jobs every single day even if they're sleep deprived, stressed or even sick.
The reality I see in my everyday life, whether I am in the province or in the city is that it's mostly MEN who does the jobs that keeps society running.
The truth is, many females look down on these (the ones I've mentioned) male-dominated occupations and most females don't even consider trying any of these jobs. Sure, many females are interested in STEM and business but I never heard a female who's contented and okay to work as a construction worker, a "bricklayer"( we don't have them here but yeah) or a jeepney driver. Sure there are some, but if compared with the number of the male ones, they're pretty rare.
As much as I like Harry Styles, he's a wealthy privileged celebrity who's currently single. It's unfair to compare him to an average working dad.
Not here to pick a fight but do you know how women too work 9 to 5 and are expected to do everything that they are "traditionally" meant to do and everybody just takes it for granted? They are expected to slave away and bare children and still look slim and sexy. They are expected to be patient and tolerate workplace harassment and domestic abuse because when they try to speak up for themselves and be tough people would call them arrogant and dramatic. So what's so unrealistic and unfair about women expecting the men in their lives to atleast be decent human beings?
Hey,
The problem is that many women are working 8 hours per day aswell. When they do the things women have been doing the last few centuries on top of that too, it's still seen as more normal than when men do these chores and jobs.
Of course there are realtionships in which the man earns the money and the woman works at home, taking care of the house and kids, but even then, men should be EXPECTED and not PRAISED for respecting and listening to their partner. Just as women are EXPECTED to respecting and listening. (Plus, being "Breadwinner" doesn't necessarily mean working harder..)
I admit that a great number of romcoms portray a relationship in which the man has way more qualities than the woman does and I guess that goes for very many movies with the male gaze aswell.
I hope we can get to a point where men won't have to be afraid of being the "weakling" among oher men, when the way they treat women is fantastic and I hope you agree!
@@charlottelelele1668 Unfortunately, in the modern day, this standard STILL exists. It's called hypergamy. Women are completely capable of taking care of themselves from young age to old age but still demand men who are above them socially. Would you MARRY a man who made less money than you and/or had a less prestigious profession?
If so, can you imagine yourself still working 8 hours a day at 40-50 and returning home to your husband taking care of the kids? Most women would say no. Even now, most women I talk to, even ones studying engineering or medicine, eventually plan to take a backseat in terms of family income or reduce their involvement in their career. There are exceptions of course but that is not the norm. Even women with lower expectations in terms of salary or career for men expect the man to take over in terms of primary income and sometimes they underestimate that value and won't find out until the bills start racking up.
As for breadwinner not being harder work, I don't think so. Holding down a near 6 figure job is going to be much harder than taking care of some kids in general just from my personal life but there are always slow days at the office and days where the kids behave miraculously so I'll agree to disagree. It depends on the job and the kids.
But yes, I do agree men should be expected to listen and respect their partners but there's a limit. If men are expected to be listening and caring, then women should be expected to take care of the household. I think that would be a fair expectation but I'm no expert on this.
On your last point. NO. I don't think we will ever reach that point. Why? Because men compete with other men and women don't want to settle. This is going to sound rude but I always find it disingenuous when women say that it's ok for men to be weak, it's really not. You can say all those encouraging words but it doesn't mean anything because the real world stats say otherwise. Women don't date "down"
fax. bare minimum is a high ass standard if u think about it.
Honestly, i think it can be both! I dislike this trend a lot, not gonna lie. To me at least, it really represents how many people have internally accepted such a.... Voyeuristic, i guesa? View of the world and how it works, I just don't think its a great idea. The underlying concept of having a 'writer' who dictates your personality, how that ties to the idea of being 'the main character' and even into the more established idea of a personal brand.... I don't think thats a healthy way to live your life. Trying to lock down Who You Are (and in this case, who other people are) into easily distilled packages is just... A really simplified way of looking at human beings, yknow? Its just a recipe for a lack of a coherent identity beyond aesthetic signifiers of subgroup social capital. I can't really begrudge anyone for talking about their ideal partner having these traits, but its just weird that these cishet white guys are praised for the bare minimum of treating women like human beings. On that note though, I feel like its telling that all these 'men written by women' examples are cis guys. I dont know if trans men are held to different standards, or maybe arent seen as canidates in the first place, or if we're just not very prominent in these communities, but this whole trend just reeks of cisnormative ideals of gender.
This - cisnormative, and whites-only
You put my thought into words. Amazing. I agree with you 100%
200% based! OP even brought in the “flattening” of reality by social media in late capitalism.
And what you’d expect?! Most people are cis, most people consuming those books are cis and most writers and cis. Even most of the haters of those writers and characters are cis .
@@RIVERVIEWIAM straight ppl too
Am I the only one that thinks a lot of this perception is solely about men and their relationships with women? Either treating them poorly through the unhealthy obsession embodied in the male gaze, or idolizing them in through the 'men written by women' trend you discuss. In both cases men are actively chasing the women, it only seems to be the outcome that changes between perspectives and who it is controlling that outcome.
It's interesting to me that some of the most popular male protagonists have no love interests at all by the end of their arcs. Luke Skywalker (Star Wars) and Frodo Baggins (LotR) both have no love interest by the end of their stories.
There seems to be a deeper attraction to the male characters that are completely alone and independent of any romantic relationships. Even with more cut & dry characters like James Bond or Indiana Jones, love is treated as a throwaway and is either abandoned or squandered - it's interesting that in 'new media' both these characters have been given relationships - as if the presence of a stable/mature relationship completes them. You could also look at Woody in Toy Story 4 or Maverick in the recent Top Gun, as more examples of men being given relationships where they didn't previously have them.
As much as men's relationship with women is unhealthy in the way we treat them, it also seems unhealthy in the way we disregard ourselves in order to please them (obtaining hyper-success/status) or 'win' their affection (as in the Pride and Prejudice example). When the outcome of a man's arc is a relationship, what does that say about male identity? It's curious to me how some of the more idolised (by men) male characters in media, have no romantic interests at all.
indeed, surprised that this comment doesn't have more likes...
@@gortrobot578 because it’s buried by piles of comments saying how the “female written men” thing is so “true”
im so grateful for your videos, amanda. thank you so much :)
Bare minimum for men? Theres gotta be a way to have an actual honest debate about the fucked up gender dynamic....and how it is BOTH sides fault for where we are. And that these increasingly once sided approaches will further alienate the discussion.
I basically said this in another comment, but: “She wants you to appeal to her female gaze from the movies, which is the bare minimum…but also the male gaze would be too much pressure on women and would be oppressive”
@@anotherrandomguy8871 and the biggest one is this. The inability to take accountability or admit their hypocrisy.
@@anotherrandomguy8871 even if you prove it to their face.
@@anotherrandomguy8871 like you behave as if men are inherently incapable of looking at women as anything other than sex objects....but then I have almost never seen a girl sacrifice her time and resources and effort for a man in a romantic way....comparable to what I've seen men do
@@anotherrandomguy8871 it's almost always a dude throwing his life away for a girl. So now I'm losing interest in even the idea of connections. And all my experiences have been similar. Just a status symbol for a woman.
Some of us were soft, sensitive, and emotionally available from a young age until we had it beaten out of us. Have you stopped to consider that maybe a lot of men don't live in a world where vulnerability is safe? Especially men of color? I just don't understand how literally being a prop for the character development of the women around you is the "bare minimum." There has to be some alternative to patriarchy which is more nuanced than this. Dear God. Please.
I think people easily forget that being emotional vulnerable, sensitivity and the likes comes with risk as a male depending on who you are being vulnerable with, but the person that’s being vulnerable, sensitive, and soft around you, also may have to legit trust you with him being vulnerable around you if he’s not someone that always does that with people who are not extremely close to him, and even then it’s not quite as easy. It can’t just be a “awww that’s so cute I want a man that’s emotionally soft and vulnerable around me” because in translation to irl it’s not that simple. Even some women who swear up and down that they are empathic end up being belittling or react badly, and view the male expressing his issues and being vulnerable, and see him as being fragile, toxic, and centering himself. So no, not every dude can’t just be emotionally sensitive and soft for you all the time, or even want to be, or want to open up.
Also some dude’s simply do not fit the personally of being sensitive all the time, and they know it, and that’s ok. When it comes to a movie, yeah of course the male hits all of the emotional check boxes for the female audience that the movie is made for, that’s ok, but he’s meant to be perfect, and tender and emotional, but irl not every dude is sensitive and soft, a lot of dudes just aren’t. Even I’m not sure if I’d fit that criteria, whether it’s because of personal experience, unsureness, or because it’s just not part of my personality. Mostly the top two.
Dope video, but I'm not gonna lie, as soon as you mentioned that the typical 'Man written by a Woman' is white, it was very hard to not notice, especially as a Black guy. This was especially prevalent at the end when you said that the archetype is your ideal man.
Well, black men protray themselves as the contrary
When will you dudes realize that black men are not valued for their personality or actions? Women only see value in our bodies. If you want to be seen as attractive, then hit the gym and get shredded. You don't have the privilege to be a "soft boy" like white men do.
I feel like I understand. Sometimes it is good to be in a place that feels wholesome, a happy place. For me, I like listening to Enya's music. We need to be noticing the positive aspects of each other as a society and things we appreciate, no matter what. Be more compassionate, more generous, and understand why having moral behavior is important. It's possible the negative mindset is what she's trying to avoid here.
Enya’s awesome!
Your voice is rly soooo calming and I have to admit: my taste in men is also men written by women lol. Amazing video as always
Honestly hate the whole “written by a female” thing. When it should be just being a decent person. Also I don’t only give credit to them, there’s tons of soft and sensitive male characters that written/created by a man.
This made me realized that a lot of kids show that are targeted towards girls has male characters that are written exactly like this and I never understood why I don’t like them, they’re just stale in in comparison to their female counterparts, or maybe they’re the same but the male characters are just the side characters.
I think we as the viewers just wants characters written as actual characters (for me at least)
Dicaprio in Titanic written by man
Technically, the first man writen by a woman would be Genji Hikaru from Genji Monogatari by Lady Shikibu Murasaki, who wrote the first ever novel in the 11th century in Japan.
that was funny XD
That isn't a novel.
What a brilliant video!! The part where you mentioned about character vs actor vs celebrity lines blurring bcs of the illusion of access that social media gives was so interesting. Never thought about it that way. I kept wondering about where or when is the line drawn? I agree with you that we have simply over romanticised some basic ass human-ness into this whole 'written by women' trend. Thank you for clearing the fog in my mind! 🙌
I can’t believe Edward Cullen was written by a woman.
this comment kills me
I think it’s very telling that none of the guys I know would actually be interested in having a relationship with a “woman written by a man”. No one wants “wish fulfillment” as a relationship for very long.
The term “bare minimum” has become another annoying buzz term at this point. I feel like it’s used to just minimize any “positive” trait about a man. Besides what is considered the bare minimum is very subjective based on what one is used to. For some, the bare minimum could be cruises on a yacht every week.
Fair point👌🏾
what a man take. how do you minimize a minimum ? :D
@@greynotchristian my point is, is what is considered the “bare minimum” is subjective. What might be the bare minimum to you might be a privilege to someone else
Agreed, each person has different wants and needs for a partner. Empathy, vulnerability, and breaking norms are hard for everyone, far from the "bare minimum" in my opinion.
@@thedissilent2548 what kind of privilege for example? cuz if we're talking basic decency idk if it's linked to privilege or maybe i am missing your point :D
Men having every possible attractive quality is bare minimum but women just being pretty is too much
I completely enjoyed this video. You put this together really well. Props to you
I need to do the bare minimum and start being tall.
Just git gud
I’m a teen boy, and I feel comfortable with myself for the most part (with some exceptions obviously) and I tried to be this “man written by a woman” but I just couldn’t. I hold a lot of feminist values and beliefs, and tried to abstain from saying a lot of sexist shit, but I found myself slipping up a lot, especially around groups of other men, but it’s not like they were even saying sexist shit, I just found myself trying to impress people by saying offensive shit. I’m not sure if this is a thing for all men, but I always wanted to be noticed. I would do a lot of crazy shit, and say a lot of crazy, sexist, and racist jokes to people because I didn’t want to be alone. For the longest time, I would do that because I wanted more friends so I would have someone my age to talk to. It worked for the most part but a bunch of women avoided me because they thought I was weird (makes sense ngl).I stopped eventually, although I do slip up from time to time. Right now I’m at a crossroads, because I try to hear from a lot of women’s perspectives about what to do and what not to do, and while listening to those perspectives, I realize I am exactly what not to do. I tried to implement more feminist values in my life, without becoming one of those “nice guys” or grifters, but I don’t know how well I’m doing at that. It feels like I’m faking a lot of this, but I don’t want to be a bad person y’know? Idek where I’m even going with this comment, I guess I’m just trying to say that I wish us men could just be our own people, and we didn’t have to follow preconceived notions of being the “ideal male”
I'm just a few years older than you, I'm 23, but I've have felt the exact same way you have. I was raised very "blue-pilled" I believed, (and still believe) all of the feminist/gender equality values and propoganda but I have slowly realized that its all a lie, or atleast it isn't realistic. I think the main point of feminism is the concept of choice and autonomy. We should give women the choice to live their lives independent from men but it shouldn't be the absolute. I have observed that a lot of women still like to be led and taken care of by their man. It is ok to have masculine/dominant beliefs and values. However, being cognizant of a woman's emotions will make you a better man. That is the beauty of being a man, bro. You have the power to shape your own (future) family. A woman can and will never be angry with you if you are able to listen to her and convey your emotions well.
@@SuperSpectrom I don’t say this a lot, but this comment got me emotional. Thank you so much bro, I’m so happy someone else understands this.
@@southernstargazer2006 I'm happy for you man. have a great day.
Loved to read your comment.
For me it's like, as soon as I've identified what I've been doing wrong, I try my best to change and trust that I will in time.
Like I don't beat myself up and that helps a lot. Be as gentle with yourself as you'd like to be with others.
recognizing that you have harmful biases and habits and trying to change that is one of the hardest things someone can do, but also one of the most important. The fact that you're you g and can do this, whereas tons of people spend most of their adulthood without being able to, os incredible in and of itself. And you should be proud of that. You seem very self aware, and also you seem to care about being a kind and good person. Trust yourself and give yourself a little credit, peer pressure is hard and sometimes we do bad things bc of it but as long as you keep trying to improve then thats all anyone can ask of you. So keep at it, it might feel "fake" now but eventually being more thoughtful when you speak will become natural and wont feel fake anymore. Just needs time. Good luck and thanks for being so empathetic to the perspectives of women around you
Respecting women should come with the territory of being in a relationship with one.
Love your videos. Very well though out and researched. Big thumbs up!!
I have tried to be the men described in these movies but women have told me im being too nice and dumped me for a jerk, can any women explain this to me?
I looooveee your perspective on life. It allows me to see things from a different viewpoint and it actually helps me change my though pattern and has somewhat helped with my thought process . I had no idea that I was really liking a guy because of the bare minimum of attention he gave me until you explained it in this video. Although the bare minimum is not bad, that’s all I thought I need in a man and it made me have low expectations and low standards for myself.
Uploaded 3 secs ago! Love the video concept 💜
Very well articulated and researched, thank you.
My honey bunny treats me really good. He is a Black man. 26 years of marriage.
This is great! My wife has a huge crush of Timothé and we often talk Ali go the lines of the observations that you made but never had it as clearly covered as you did in this video, thank you!
I love how articulate you are. I also loved listening to your analysis. Great work!
I just want to say that I love your channel and appreciate your content
I’m not too sure what’s being discussed here, but I appreciate the first 3 minutes. Pretty fresh and quirky.
I’m sorry but the rain scene in Pride and Prejudice is THE SCENE!!! So good.
great video, even tho i still don't have a tiktok account and had no idea of this trend before watching.
Still gonna watch it tho
I love this!! And missed your videos 💕
This is very rooted in mass generalisation. All the YA female authors who think 50 shades is a romance and that all other men are so bad that those who are simply good people must be written by a woman
I just realized that your chanel is so much more fun to watch high
I'm sure if you would ask this girl if she'd do the groundbreaking thing of listening to a man and change herself to what he likes in order to be with him, she'd answer with tropes like "I'd never change for a man"/"If he doesn't love me at my worst he doesn't deserve me at my best"/"Who does he think he is ? I'm perfect, yes Queen ~" etc... But okey.
So ready for this and it just started
I think it would be better for you to move the microphone abit more out of the frame since the camera has trouble focusing and is constantly switching between you and the mic
It’s quite ironic that Timothee is regarded as a ‘man written by a woman’ when so many of his NYU classmates have said that he was an asshole who treated women like collateral 😭
Didn't we all waited for Mr Darcy at some point 🤷🏻♀️ but again that was superficial too, he is rich ,well educated, insanely good-looking , gentleman
Have to subscribe. You are ethereal and so well spoken 💛
at this point I strongly believe that the internet is losing original thought and all we get are new words for the same idea/premise.
I know this is a way off-topic but which hair extensions did you use for your twists? I LOVE THEM!😍
I never actually liked Laurie. Granted, I've only seen the movie lol. But he didn't seem that respectful. He seemed at times a little like a 'nice guy'. He was nice and 'deserved' to marry Jo. When that didn't work out he ran over to her sister, who he knew had a crush on him since they were little.
Again, I might've misinterpreted some things in the movie. But it never seemed to me like Laurie actually fell in love with Amy. It just seemed logical to him. She wanted to marry a rich man, even if she didn't like him, so she could have the freedom to persue art. He was rich and wanted to marry a friend I guess.
And there's nothing wrong with that. But part of me read that as him acting like he loved her, her wanting to believe he did because she liked him, just cause he did still want to be close to Jo.
Idk. Something about him marrying Amy rubbed me the wrong way. Which is weird, cause I shipped them from the beginning. I just never got to see that he truely cares for her as more than a childhood friend.
I'm surprised you didn't include Tom Holland! He was my first thought.
but if a guy says what he looks for in a girl he is always called misogynistic
This video is so spot on the things that I was thinking, especially regarding Harry Styles. I also wonder if it's connected to another phenomenon, of teen girls romanticizing gay/ queer/ bisexual men. Like in fan fiction and other places. It's not exactly the same, but close.
Since when being a selfless generous and kind person open to new ideas is a bear minimum?
nothing wrong with being kind. bare minimum means it's something that everyone should have, a basic thing that everyone should own. and there's nothing wrong with doing that bare minimum. it's just that it shouldn't be praised too much. sure, you can show appreciation to the people in real life, but there's no need to go overboard to the point you make a tiktok/social media posts about it.
Guuurl....you used the word "Ostensibly". Never heard it spoken before😮👏👏
if i ever find my selff doing most of all things you said in the intro i would be on my verge of life writing poetry would be the thing that makes me pull the time plug on my life
kit young (jesper in shadow & bone) also comes to mind for a "man written by a woman"
Calling ALL the stuff you mentioned from 00:00 to 00:15 the bare minimum is so wild to me. Most ppl don't do most of those things.
How is writing poetry and taking time to help the elderly daily the bare minimum?
If it was a joke and I didn't get it, pardon me, but the way ppl use the term "bare minimum" online when it comes to relationships is so weird, it's almost like shaming someone for not being spectacular. Everyone cannot be spectacular. Also everyone's bare minium is subjective, it's a privilege that one person's bare minimum is paying for a date, while another is excited by finally being able to meet people in a tax bracket where scrounging for a shared meal together is their bare minimum.
anyways, hopefully the vid gets better from here
This is a really great point, things really aren’t as black and white as what people seem to think it is. Surely the bare minimum would just be treating each other with respect, taking the time to listen to each other, and just making an effort to make things work with what you have/how you can.
People saying a lot of things, say for example that having a job is the bare minimum has always irked me. There are so many reasons why someone might not have a job, and it just seems racist, ableist and classist to say you shouldn’t be dating someone because of something like that.
Like you said, it really is subjective, and unless it’s something genuinely at the fault of the person, it really should be looked at through a different lense
I consider "bare minimum" as respect, compromise, sincerity, empathy, attentive, etc. So, in that case we shouldn't praise anybody for having those traits because that is the bare minimum someone can do.
@@aleum I also believe that we all should show these qualities to one another - it is our duty as civilized humans to be kind, respectful, show empathy, etc... However, just because it is our moral obligation, doesn't mean it doesn't deserve praise or compliments, no? Despite being essential, they are beautiful qualities. Praising is an excellent incentive and reward that humans inherently need. Now, I do believe men tend to be more praised than women when they display these characteristics - and yes, sometimes it frustrates me to think that when women try to be good people, it's just seen as us doing what we have to do. However, I don't think that should stop us from complimenting men when they actually try to be good people - or women, by the way. I believe we should just break the cycle and praise good qualities, whoever the person is. Or else the world would be rather cold, don't you think?
@@someperson128 i completely agree with what you’re saying! The whole “men are from mars, women are from venus” way of looking at things just makes me feel like I’m back in middle school. I don’t get when women (I am one btw) talk about men like they aren’t humans too and come from all walks of life with different personalities, opinions and interests. If a man, or anybody for that matter, is genuine, kind, and a good communicator and I’ve known them long enough, I’m gonna let them know that I appreciate that about them.
@@rosecoloredbby so true!
I do want to bring up, make sure that you change out of respect for your partner within reason. Like of he/she says "Hey will you please stop doing ___ I don't like it" in regard to something easily fixable and manageable then yes. You should change that. But if they're asking you to change something that's fundamental to who you are as a person, then don't.
What’s the update now that you’re all done filming?! I’m so excited to hear more about it or even see it. Like if you want amandamaryanna to respond.
Ngl from what I see in fanfics like after or 50 shades, a lot of men written by women are brooding bad boys who they feel the need to fix or whatever.
For sure, there's more than one single female gaze. Plenty of girls swoon over the overly masculine bad boy archetype.
“The bar for men is in hell.” is a T-Shirt.
A lot of women don't have good standards.
@@cazbutterfly4229 basic respect?
@dang_an1 wanting basic respect is in purgatory. Got it
I don't get it, is she saying the bar for men is low as hell? because i see the exact opposite, the bar for men is on fucking jupiter while the bar for women is in hell..
@@Kemachris what are men's general standards for women?
Loved the video!
sometimes when I watch your videos I can't focus on what you're saying because you're so pretty
It bothers me that most of these written by a women men tend to be white/ spicy white men💀
For me is asian men - kdrama, kpop...
The main examples were European period pieces
@spacebuns Exactly!
@@liyajk8182 those are real people getting styled and showcasing a better persona for fans/ future fans. I don’t think it’s the same. Similar maybe. But not the exact same. I’m terms of kpop. But I can agree with Kdramas!!
You'll never see any of them darker than a paper bag
ok but can this framework be applied to slash fanfiction
As a man, sometimes I think a lot of women don’t understand that those trends like the “written by a woman” can be extremely important for man to simply understand women better. The different types of media that we produce framed by the lens of gender and sexuality create and reinforce different cultures and understandings of the world, and paying attention to those types of trends are a window into a perspective a lot of man have no contact with.
Now for the thing that annoys me in this conversation: as someone that in a lot of respects hit the “written by a woman” marks(parênteses to flex me at myself: I cook, I did interior design, I am a certified gardener, I can sew my own clothes, I Clean, I am an athlete and was a kid’s coach, I organized a kid’s book club, I never let someone I like have less than me, and I am very demanding with the quality of the things I like, etc) and that also struggle a lot with sexual assault(generally from women), those discussions and trends can fell intensely objectifying, mainly because my own criteria for attraction and partnership resonates more with the female gaze than the male gaze(I’m straight btw), and I both saw and also did myself situations where the effort to reinforce and maintain those “female gaze” attributes made people(and myself) treat their partners as a object or a impossible creature to be preserved(funny enough, another place I see a similar thing happening is amongst some of the more misogynistic nerd subcultures with the perfect nerd/gamer girl). To reach a conclusion, I think that those tendencies and trends, I’m my perspective, can sometimes mirror the problems of the hegemonic gender paradigm wile presenting themselves as a way to scape from it, and can dehumanize the people that fall victim(hyperbole) to the gaze.
Thank you fo reading ❤😊
did we watch the same vid all i understood is that women want a tall white guy that treats you with respect, and changes their personality to be liked more by the girl the whole gaze thing is dogshit especially this video, you seem quite reasonable though with your take.
amazing video!!!