The Turkish ottoman empire lasted a lot longer and was a lot more brutal than the British empire could ever be or ever hope to be. Why don't we ever talk about that 🤫
@@helen677 Darren Grimes and Dan Wootton have teamed up to try and attack Tom Daley and ruin him. Reminder: Tom Daley is a national hero; an Olympic Gold medalist who is an inspiration to so many. Grimes and Wootton on the other hand are bitter, self loathing clowns who have achieved very little other than being paid to create culture wars.
Dr Masani is (in my humble opinion) being far too polite about Tom Daley. Tom needs to do more research and perhaps LISTEN to some people who actually know a little more on the subject . The Empire has gone...years ago. The people of those countries can change any law they wish to. If they haven't, then it's their problem.
First time I have heard of Dr Masini, could have done with him in the 70s, when nobody helped me, OK having people like Stomewallwho did no think for me and as of now am thinking all I fought for and suffered was wasted for the woke classes to belittle me,,,
@@ronniedixon1128 His feet didn't move without his intention, his intention involved strategising and tactical play to outsmart the opponent. It involves the brain - its an intelligence.
Only half of Nigeria (the north): the south is Christian, but again, traditional societies (i.e. every society except the modern West) proscribes homosexuality. It really has nothing to do with Islam or any other religion per se. Religions merely codify an existing prejudice. Banning or discouraging homosexuality makes complete sense in every pre-industrial, agricultural society. You need to discourage males from not fathering children. As long as they left progeny, many societies (e.g. Ancient Greece, pre-industrial Japan, the pre-Islamic Middle East) did not care who men had sex with.
Tom is like most 'Brits abroad' ..... Slags off his country!! Why don't you change teams Tom and represent the USA, that great Bastian of Racial and Sexual harmony!! I'm sure his father would have been so proud of him!!
Tom is so ignorant, he does not mention that Arabic countries who were NEVER under colonial law also prohibited homosexuality. I wish these people would get off their one track mind.
NEVER ?.... Why am I thinking Iran, Libya, Syria, and Palestine to give just a few contemporary examples (Don't even mention the Crusades and the Romans).
Africa, with its copious peoples, Kingdoms and languages, pre-colonial times, predominantly did not tolerate homosexuality. Therefore it was not practiced and was not a real issue. I would guess that the same would be for all peoples of the world.
It’s was the 19th century for goodness sake attitudes were different worldwide not just in the empire. The Indian chap spoke so eloquently and made complete sense.
19th-century Britain and France were actually the most gay-friendly societies in history up to that point, with the exception of Ancient Greece and one or two others.
Daley has done himself no favours here. What an ungrateful prat.we in the UK supported him in every way. As he's so ashamed, then give the money and the medals back.🙄🙄
Peter gives in, again, to woke revisionism, confusing occasional tribal tolerance for the outsider with gay/lesbian social equality, which existed nowhere in the Empire.
Lets face it lol Tom Daley isn`t the brightest bulb in the box. He`s a bit dim. Instead of being applauded for his ability as a diver and athlete , he`s making himself look stupid now. He needs to keep his mouth shut.
Britain introduced many laws in the colonial countries mentioned due to the fact they never had rule of law in the way we introduced (common law) and this was the standard the common people of those lands wanted. There's this idea that Britain's colonialism meant imposition of law and tyranny on everyone but it's not as simple as that. Local authorities worked with the British authorities and that acted like a bridge towards common goals. To keep the locals from revolting there would have to be a respect of the laws and standards of the respective countries under British governance, for example. This is just another blind history lesson to promote an anti-western sentiment, as always spearheaded by the left.
Why Doesn't Tatchell go fight the cause in Saudi Arabia, Iran, China, Malaysia ?...Because he prefers the easy path of whining about Micro Offenses from the comfort of by most measures one of the fairest societies on the planet.
It was so refreshing listening this debate as neither side was constantly interuppting the other. Well done GBNews. So superior to the BBC e.g. Question Time for one.
Tom Daley has always been a naive man child, so has his husband. He's just desperately attempting to stay in the spotlight because his diving career, which let's be fair wasn't the most glamorous or successful, is essentially over.
Daley’s 48 year husband Dustin Lance-Black is extremely annoying and immature. I unsubscribed to Daley’s instagram for this reason, I like watching the diving but they’re a pair of woke prats.
It was embarrassingly ignorant. And not only that, people swallowed it. I had a debate with someone who GENUINELY believed 'buck breaking' was real. This is an urban myth debunked decades ago.
Before the Buggery act was introduced in 1533 by Henry VIII, homosexuality wasn't a criminal act in England. However, after this act was introduced it became a criminal act, not only throughout Britain but eventually throughout the Empire. Therefore, if you want to lay the blame, don't blame the Empire, blame King Henry VIII .
And that was only because Henry Vlll was playing games with the Church of Rome, trying to get his own way. It was also the norm to marry a girl of 14 to a 40 years old man. We evolved to be better since then. Daley harping on in this way is unhelpful.
What Tatchell said about his friend in a Nigerian village - is true of Britain before the pro-Gay laws. People knew some men were gay and lived with their partner and it was accepted but just not celebrated or put on a legislative basis.
I respect Tom Daley for his athleticism and hard work, but I feel that he makes swiping statements just for "show". He made a stance against sporting authorities for not allowing transgenders in sports. But he has never understood the consequence of that statement. Does he really know how hard it will be for women to compete against transgenders?
The two commentators are speaking at cross-purposes. One is talking about homophobia in society, the other is talking about legislation. And Mr Tatchell fails to mention that homosexuality has always been illegal in Muslim countries, which cannot be blamed on the British Empire. In African, Oriental and Middle Eastern countries, racism, chauvinism, xenophobia, and homophobia are not considered bad. And one may very well ask, why should they have the same notions as the 'enlightened' West? Even in Thailand, which many Western tourists think is sexually liberal, as 'respectable' Thais are homophobic.
Homophobia in the commonwealth... what has that got to do with colonialism? In some countries (e.g. malaysia) it is related to religion. In other countries (singapore), it's tied to the low child birth... hmm...
There is no crime without a victim. Gays aren't harming anyone, and therefore should not be prosecuted.....However if Sovereign Peoples wish to preclude LGBT Culture from their Countries - that's entirely their own business.
Correction, not just Christianity. All the Abrahamic religions. Jews, Christians and Muslims have big problems with the gay community. No Indian faith (Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism or Sikhism) has a problem with the LGBT community, because we believe in reincarnation. Consciousness goes in cycles. So it is entirely possible for a person to be born as a man in this life and carry memories/feelings of being a woman in a past life. And this manifests in things like same sex attraction and feeling that you're possibly not in the right gender body. Nothing to be ashamed about! It's all cool and very natural. Hence in ancient India, gay people weren't persecuted and were very much accepted into society.
In respect of some things, but certainly NOT with regard to homosexuality. Almost all non-Christian societies prohibited homosexual acts for thousands of years before the colonial powers showed up. Read some damned history before you open your mouth!
Peter Tatchel seems happy to romanticise Nigeria based on the anecdotal experience of his friend’s great grandmother! ‘Live and let live attitude’? Maybe he should read the account of ‘Baba of Karo’ recorded by Mary Smith in 1954. Baba attests to tribal conflict, persecution and slavery before the coming of the British. It was hardly an environment of ‘live and let live’! 🙄
The British empire has a lot to answer for, not just for inciting homophobia. I could be ashamed of being British myself if we knew of all the injustices that went on in the past whether or not they are in the history books . There needs to be much atonement I believe.
@@bettyboo8214 It's not the past though, is it? It's still goes on. Homophobia has been growing and growing in more subtle ways in order to ostracise and marginalise gay people from society. That's partly why suicide and depression is common in gay men and women.
Talking absolute rubbish a friend in Nigeria grandmother said it was live and let live lol more likely got killed buried in the jungle and forgot with they try normalise homosexuality all over the world and it never been excepted as normal except in some western civilisation.African and Asian culture hasn’t excepted it never all Britain did is make a culture stigmatism a law like they did with everything murder wasn’t a law rape wasn’t theft wasn’t but people still got punished if they did it all the empire did was write down what was allowed and write a punishment for it instead of the whole village punishing the guilty party . Go to any of the countries and your cause a civil war trying to get them to except it . It has to be normalised slowly into the culture and those countries are not privileged enough for that to be a concern it’s that simple you do what the majority wants like everywhere else
![Gunna - HIM ALL ALONG [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/w7Wf0h1Q8a4/mqdefault.jpg)
It’s just trendy to blame everything on the empire amongst certain circles. Most of us with a brain can see what’s actually going on.
Empire, colonialism, is globalism we are seeing today, unless you have been asleep.
Your not wrong.
How long do we have to apologize for the British empire, is there a time limit or do we just have to apologize forever 😒
The Turkish ottoman empire lasted a lot longer and was a lot more brutal than the British empire could ever be or ever hope to be. Why don't we ever talk about that 🤫
@@davehallett810 cause it doesn't serve their purpose.
He’s another winger. Britain gets blamed for pretty much everything 🇬🇧
You are 💯- percent correct it seems to be a favorite pastime to blame Britain for everything bad that has ever happened in the world.
'whinger' or 'whiner' but yes. a 'winger' plays in a football team.
Tom Daley is a prat in the same mould as Lineker, Southgate and Hamilton.
Roger Mellie is a prat in the same mould as Darren Grimes, Laurence Fox, Martin Daubney and Alex Belfield.
Rodger you are right these are "woke" idiots.
Well said!
Ouch ! So true...
@@helen677 Darren Grimes and Dan Wootton have teamed up to try and attack Tom Daley and ruin him. Reminder: Tom Daley is a national hero; an Olympic Gold medalist who is an inspiration to so many. Grimes and Wootton on the other hand are bitter, self loathing clowns who have achieved very little other than being paid to create culture wars.
Dr Masani is (in my humble opinion) being far too polite about Tom Daley. Tom needs to do more research and perhaps LISTEN to some people who actually know a little more on the subject . The Empire has gone...years ago. The people of those countries can change any law they wish to. If they haven't, then it's their problem.
First time I have heard of Dr Masini, could have done with him in the 70s, when nobody helped me, OK having people like Stomewallwho did no think for me and as of now am thinking all I fought for and suffered was wasted for the woke classes to belittle me,,,
What an eloquent man… then Tatchell opened his mouth..
Tim Hull.
Exactly. Tatchell, sometimes just needs to listen a bit more.
Actually Peter is a very intelligent man. I agree with most of what he states.
Seems like tatchell just mentioned facts? Sorry facts offend you
Tom Daleys a silly little boy.
Tom Daley has shown himself to be completely ignorant and unintelligent.
Exploitable in other words. But still a great diver - that takes a kind of intelligence.
@@elkpaz560 Not really, just dedication and talent. For example I wouldn’t regard Paul Gascoigne as intelligent but he was a brilliant footballer.
@@ronniedixon1128 His feet didn't move without his intention, his intention involved strategising and tactical play to outsmart the opponent. It involves the brain - its an intelligence.
Jumping in water, what a useless skill!
Yet another attention seeker! 😏😏
I was under the impression by Nigeria also practises Islam , which is also homophobic.
Nigeria normally has two terms Islamic President and 2 terms Christian, and neither will repeal the law
Only half of Nigeria (the north): the south is Christian, but again, traditional societies (i.e. every society except the modern West) proscribes homosexuality. It really has nothing to do with Islam or any other religion per se. Religions merely codify an existing prejudice. Banning or discouraging homosexuality makes complete sense in every pre-industrial, agricultural society. You need to discourage males from not fathering children. As long as they left progeny, many societies (e.g. Ancient Greece, pre-industrial Japan, the pre-Islamic Middle East) did not care who men had sex with.
Peter Tatchell always has a friend (3:34) who is affected by the subject being discussed.
Your point is?
@@stanbily9416 Read it again.
Tom Daley should stick to just jumping into water….he’s very good at that…..speaking? Not so much….
Maybe hes had too much chlorine...
Probably too busy diving into Harry monk.
Daley is an attention seeker .... 'The only Gay in the village' 😜
Tom daily showing British education is in the toilet
He is a diver at the end of the day why are we even talking about him
Peter i have a friend tatchel , funny how he always has a friend that ...
Not sure why Tom is mouthing off in the uk. Why can’t he go to those countries and enforce his ideology on them.
Tom is like most 'Brits abroad' ..... Slags off his country!! Why don't you change teams Tom and represent the USA, that great Bastian of Racial and Sexual harmony!! I'm sure his father would have been so proud of him!!
Tom Daley is a fool
Ugh, Peter "I'm a lying prat" Tatchell. 🙄 Once I see him, I switch off. 😒
He's a single-issue grifter: he makes his money by complaining about non-existent "injustices."
Listening to Daley is like taking weather information from Greta
He should move to Saudi Arabia. They love the Gay community .
Tom is so ignorant, he does not mention that Arabic countries who were NEVER under colonial law also prohibited homosexuality. I wish these people would get off their one track mind.
NEVER ?.... Why am I thinking Iran, Libya, Syria, and Palestine to give just a few contemporary examples (Don't even mention the Crusades and the Romans).
Africa, with its copious peoples, Kingdoms and languages, pre-colonial times, predominantly did not tolerate homosexuality. Therefore it was not practiced and was not a real issue. I would guess that the same would be for all peoples of the world.
Tom would have done a better documentary on knitting.
It’s was the 19th century for goodness sake attitudes were different worldwide not just in the empire. The Indian chap spoke so eloquently and made complete sense.
19th-century Britain and France were actually the most gay-friendly societies in history up to that point, with the exception of Ancient Greece and one or two others.
Daley has done himself no favours here. What an ungrateful prat.we in the UK supported him in every way. As he's so ashamed, then give the money and the medals back.🙄🙄
And his OBE.
Peter gives in, again, to woke revisionism, confusing occasional tribal tolerance for the outsider with gay/lesbian social equality, which existed nowhere in the Empire.
There were no laws against gays in Africa in the 19th century and earlier because they had no laws at all
It was Adam and Eve... Not Adam and Steve!
Yeah 100%.
I was hoping that ridiculous cringey statement was out of date, apparently not. There are better ways to defend traditional Christian views.
Yawn.
@Zoro it's an Alan Partridge reference.
Dr Zareer Masani is only one with sense
Tom should dive for the Afghanistan team. Great dive platform, shame about the pool.
So, so wrong Peter. Traveling to as a tourist and living in these counties is a big difference
Lets face it lol Tom Daley isn`t the brightest bulb in the box. He`s a bit dim. Instead of being applauded for his ability as a diver and athlete , he`s making himself look stupid now. He needs to keep his mouth shut.
So he is not allowed to have an opinion?
The third world was a bastion of tolerance before the British Empire turned up. Gay love for all!
Gay love as in all love for adults with adults...
Sarcasm or Serious
@@seanmoran2743 LOLZ
Sorry, this is sarcasm isn't it???
Britain introduced many laws in the colonial countries mentioned due to the fact they never had rule of law in the way we introduced (common law) and this was the standard the common people of those lands wanted.
There's this idea that Britain's colonialism meant imposition of law and tyranny on everyone but it's not as simple as that. Local authorities worked with the British authorities and that acted like a bridge towards common goals. To keep the locals from revolting there would have to be a respect of the laws and standards of the respective countries under British governance, for example.
This is just another blind history lesson to promote an anti-western sentiment, as always spearheaded by the left.
Tom Daley, what a bummer.
Daley is not misguided, but simply wrong, and trying to be trendy in blaming the empire, and Tatchel is no better.
Why Doesn't Tatchell go fight the cause in Saudi Arabia, Iran, China, Malaysia ?...Because he prefers the easy path of whining about Micro Offenses from the comfort of by most measures one of the fairest societies on the planet.
Because he will get seriously fucked up and not in his preferred way
He went to Qatar to protest, which is on the borders of SA. Your comment is ignorance.
@@martynblackburn9632 My comment is ignorant is what you are grasping for.
@@notabiologist9865 Okay, your comment is an example of ignorance being shown is what I meant, though I did not write it that way that is all.
Same sex marriage is not wildly popular in most of the world
This predates European Contact and holds true today
It’s not wrong nor are we right
It was so refreshing listening this debate as neither side was constantly interuppting the other. Well done GBNews. So superior to the BBC e.g. Question Time for one.
The reality is that Daley is attempting to re-impose empirical values, by stating that the UK sets the standard.
Tom Daley has always been a naive man child, so has his husband. He's just desperately attempting to stay in the spotlight because his diving career, which let's be fair wasn't the most glamorous or successful, is essentially over.
Daley’s 48 year husband Dustin Lance-Black is extremely annoying and immature. I unsubscribed to Daley’s instagram for this reason, I like watching the diving but they’re a pair of woke prats.
100 % YOUR THE MAN !
"Deliberately guided" rather than "misguided", I think!
Tribal laws in Africa had some horrible laws, in particular for woman.
He always has a friend.
Peter Tatchell and yet another of his sooo many friends.
Tom Daley would be of little relevance were it not for Sir Isaac Newton, and not much more relevant thanks to him
Yet actively encouraged immigration into this country, of people that just don't hate him. But like really hate him?
I find it amazing that they can come with so many names for the mentally sick.
It was embarrassingly ignorant. And not only that, people swallowed it.
I had a debate with someone who GENUINELY believed 'buck breaking' was real. This is an urban myth debunked decades ago.
Before the Buggery act was introduced in 1533 by Henry VIII, homosexuality wasn't a criminal act in England. However, after this act was introduced it became a criminal act, not only throughout Britain but eventually throughout the Empire. Therefore, if you want to lay the blame, don't blame the Empire, blame King Henry VIII .
And that was only because Henry Vlll was playing games with the Church of Rome, trying to get his own way. It was also the norm to marry a girl of 14 to a 40 years old man. We evolved to be better since then. Daley harping on in this way is unhelpful.
@@Lemontea-y71
Tom Daley is good at jumping into water, but not much else.
Ha Ha...another anti British comment from Goldman Sachs.
What Tatchell said about his friend in a Nigerian village - is true of Britain before the pro-Gay laws. People knew some men were gay and lived with their partner and it was accepted but just not celebrated or put on a legislative basis.
‘I have a friend who….’ The Peter Thatchell statement in every interview.
@@Telcontarnz When people like him talk about having friends, you know they're lying.
it is a fact, a grandma said so …
Feel like Darren is the last person who should be pulling at the "is this guy qualified to be on telly" thread.
What relevant qualification do you feel he lacks ?
Asking for an answer more in hope than expectation.
We get blamed..for everything in britain
The reckoning is coming and it's about time it did.
I respect Tom Daley for his athleticism and hard work, but I feel that he makes swiping statements just for "show". He made a stance against sporting authorities for not allowing transgenders in sports. But he has never understood the consequence of that statement. Does he really know how hard it will be for women to compete against transgenders?
that's because he's thick
The two commentators are speaking at cross-purposes. One is talking about homophobia in society, the other is talking about legislation. And Mr Tatchell fails to mention that homosexuality has always been illegal in Muslim countries, which cannot be blamed on the British Empire.
In African, Oriental and Middle Eastern countries, racism, chauvinism, xenophobia, and homophobia are not considered bad. And one may very well ask, why should they have the same notions as the 'enlightened' West? Even in Thailand, which many Western tourists think is sexually liberal, as 'respectable' Thais are homophobic.
I'm surprised anyone still listens to Peter twatchell!!!
Let us see evidence of this live and let live thingies then.....
That is an extremely rare thing: live and let live. I don't find it anywhere personally.
Homophobia in the commonwealth... what has that got to do with colonialism? In some countries (e.g. malaysia) it is related to religion. In other countries (singapore), it's tied to the low child birth... hmm...
There is no crime without a victim. Gays aren't harming anyone, and therefore should not be prosecuted.....However if Sovereign Peoples wish to preclude LGBT Culture from their Countries - that's entirely their own business.
Christianity is to blame! Not British. British colonial policy was NOT to spread Christianity. That was Spanish colonial policy.
Correction, not just Christianity. All the Abrahamic religions. Jews, Christians and Muslims have big problems with the gay community. No Indian faith (Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism or Sikhism) has a problem with the LGBT community, because we believe in reincarnation. Consciousness goes in cycles. So it is entirely possible for a person to be born as a man in this life and carry memories/feelings of being a woman in a past life. And this manifests in things like same sex attraction and feeling that you're possibly not in the right gender body. Nothing to be ashamed about! It's all cool and very natural. Hence in ancient India, gay people weren't persecuted and were very much accepted into society.
In respect of some things, but certainly NOT with regard to homosexuality. Almost all non-Christian societies prohibited homosexual acts for thousands of years before the colonial powers showed up. Read some damned history before you open your mouth!
Peter Tatchel seems happy to romanticise Nigeria based on the anecdotal experience of his friend’s great grandmother! ‘Live and let live attitude’? Maybe he should read the account of ‘Baba of Karo’ recorded by Mary Smith in 1954. Baba attests to tribal conflict, persecution and slavery before the coming of the British. It was hardly an environment of ‘live and let live’! 🙄
Peter Tatchell, nudging the fudge as usual.
Peter Tatchell was bum diving long before Tom Daley 😜
His arsehole is probably like an old battered wind sock
The British empire has a lot to answer for, not just for inciting homophobia. I could be ashamed of being British myself if we knew of all the injustices that went on in the past whether or not they are in the history books . There needs to be much atonement I believe.
why should WE have to atone for things that were done in the past???
it was nothing to do with us. just a load of bollocks.
@@bettyboo8214 It's not the past though, is it? It's still goes on. Homophobia has been growing and growing in more subtle ways in order to ostracise and marginalise gay people from society. That's partly why suicide and depression is common in gay men and women.
Talking absolute rubbish a friend in Nigeria grandmother said it was live and let live lol more likely got killed buried in the jungle and forgot with they try normalise homosexuality all over the world and it never been excepted as normal except in some western civilisation.African and Asian culture hasn’t excepted it never all Britain did is make a culture stigmatism a law like they did with everything murder wasn’t a law rape wasn’t theft wasn’t but people still got punished if they did it all the empire did was write down what was allowed and write a punishment for it instead of the whole village punishing the guilty party . Go to any of the countries and your cause a civil war trying to get them to except it . It has to be normalised slowly into the culture and those countries are not privileged enough for that to be a concern it’s that simple you do what the majority wants like everywhere else