According to some commenters who claim to have been involved in the incident, there was no fire on board. Instead, ladybugs managed to escape their package and swarm the cargo smoke detector, causing a false fire indication on the flight deck. The heat signature detected by ARFFS was caused by exhaust from the #2 engine / APU bleed duct, which cooled after the engines and APU were shut down. Mechanics found no evidence of fire or smoke during a post-flight inspection, only thousands of loose bugs.
I love the maritime spirit in the language of "souls on board." My customer service hope is that one day on the ATC radio some fed-up pilot cracks wise and says, for example, "We got 143 souls on board, plus two really mean passengers."
@@singemfrc HAHAHA Yeah true tho after what First Officer James Tucker (I think I said his last name wrong) the guy who was also involved in Fight for your life (FedEx 705 or Express 705 as that was its callsign) made that thing go towards Mach-tuck or Mach-1 correct me on that and the DC-10-30F (At the time) was only designed for only up to 695knots Tucker was over 800kts in that big dive and was at a 140 degree bank as well
@@singemfrc I find it weird, you're right because it is a masc name but I'm so used to referring as planes as "she". Uhh... What's N306FE's gender identity then?
Great CRM, I am also a freight dog, this is my worst fear. When and if this happens I (and my colleagues because we talk about this scenario frequently) am going to shed as much speed and altitude as fast as I can...exactly what this crew did. Amazing video
@@pinkdoughnut869 Think again. The fire was reported in the lower aft compartment. The smell of it could not have made its way to the cockpit. You need to know what you're talking about before you open your mouth. By the way, the word is amateur, not armature.
@@pinkdoughnut869 Such an assumption in a situation like that can get people killed and crash an aircraft. The only assumption that any professional pilot who gets a CARGO FIRE indication makes is that there IS a fire and that they need to get on the ground as quickly as possible.
Fire in the cargo bay... sounds like a nightmare but everyone involved handled it like it was just a spilt drink excellent communication and professionalism good to hear no one hurt and the plane was good to fly after just a few days
@@LorenzoGiordanoGomes The heat signature that the fire crews thought they saw was the bleed duct from the APU and #2 engine. I work for purple at TUL and by the time I got to the aircraft it had already cooled down and no more heat signature. Once we opened the cargo doors the only thing we found was thousands of ladybugs. Fire dept. checked the bays, no heat signatures, no smoke, no signs of fire.
If only Swissair Flight 111's pilots displayed the same amount of urgency and respect for the seriousness of their situation. Fire onboard is probably the worst thing for an aircrew to hear. I felt the second-hand anxiety for these pilots. Respect to them and atc for the flawless job.
Most people agree Swiss 111 wouldn't have made it anyways. They followed the checklist and industry standards of the time. Had they not wasted time to dump fuel they likely would have been over a populated area when the flight control wiring was destroyed by the fire. Their actions were what they were asked to do and saved many people on the ground. Of all the people to blame for Swiss Air 111, the pilots are absolutely not at fault. How many commercial airliners have you been the Captain on while a raging fire disconnected the flight deck from the aircraft controls? I'm going to guess zero.
@@hewhohasnoidentity4377 Yes that was in fact true, investigators concluded even if they didn’t dump fuel Swissair 111 would have not made it to Halifax in any circumstances there was not enough time They concluded from where they declared Pan Pan Pan at 10:14 it would take approximately 13 minutes to get to Halifax (Not including dumping fuel) by 10:24 (10 mins later) that’s when all electronics went haywire and that’s when Moncton ATC (That’s in New Brunswick I think in Maine or in Canada) lost contact with the plane and it’s secondary radar (Primary Radar was used until the plane crashed at 10:30 uncontrollable I believe) The last words by Swissair 111 was by the First Officer saying “Rouf” or Up in Swiss Also the Final Report states that electrical arcing Behind the Pilots was the cause of the crash the wiring itself was just wires and a bracket and would arc over time and couple with the In-Flight Entertainment System increased temperatures with an insulator that is flammable there was no realistic chance Swissair 111 was going to make it Also Additionally, When the Swissair pilots did the checklist “Smoke of unknown origin” they had turned off the recirculating fans that the reason why the fire didn’t grow. Had they known where the fire is they would never have turned off the Recirculating Fans But in this case Pilot Error wasn’t the cause but that little fact was just a factor that the pilots never knew but were never at fault for The probable cause was due to electrical arcing behind the cockpit which grew in intensity after the recirculating fans were turned by the pilots as per Swissair checklist states, No fault was involved with the pilots even tho they turned off the recirculating fans but were forced to turn it off as they were told to follow the checklist then if it doesn’t work divert immediately. So more fault was on the airplane training was great it’s the response was delayed due to following checklists with a possible fire onboard
Look at ValueJet, colossal fire, landing wasn’t even in the cards. Air Canada, they landed, though just narrowly. Of course they were both questioned why they didn’t land immediately immediately, but was pointed out that it was a DC-9, not an F-15. I think SwissAir could conceivably have landed, but between the fuel, the service, the protocol, and the fans, the outcome was guaranteed. Had they had the indication, and immediately dropped everything and was hell bent on landing right f’ng now, i see it being probable. Of course hindsight is 20-20.
Swissair procedures were not to land overweight. Hindsight is always 20/20. I flew the MD11 for nineteen years. Subsequently, we were taught to land regardless of aircraft weight.
I love the pilots. They're so calm and try trying to tell them that, "we're descending because of a fire alarm in the cargo area". LöL! I would think like, "HEY ATC!!!! THIS PLANE IS ON FIRE IN THE CARGO HOLD!!!!". Where as these guys sound slightly stressed. Great training and great job!
A little scary. I was returning home from a basketball game in my Cessna 182 when I started smelling smoke on final. It was after the normal closing time for the tower so I was surprised when he cleared me to land. I was on final so I ignored the smoke smell and just landed as quickly as possible and got off at the nearest taxiway and shut off the landing lights and taxi lights and was ready to grab the extinguisher from between the seats and evacuate but the smoke smell immediately started to dissapate so I taxied to the FBO and noted in the log that the plane needed to be checked out before another flight. They replaced the landing light switch. I can't help to think that I should have declared the emergency since the controller was still in the tower I would have felt pretty stupid if actual flames started and I just had the little extinguisher. The next day after thinking about it I decided if it ever happened again I would ask for the help if it was available.
@@K1OIK Fixed Base Operator.... It's the company at the airport that supplies services, such as fuel, plane storage, maintenance, etc. Many also rent airplanes out.
@@jcl410 What these type threads are full of are a closed club of elites. Who try to show how hip and cool they ate by using aircraft terms that easily could be spelled out so the casual viewer could understand them.
I retired from FEDEX last August after 26 years of Service and this video makes Me remember some very interesting experiences at the Tarmac...some scary, some funny and some very inspiring.
@@danilocastillo5714 I started in 95 at the Oakland Hub (OAKH), transfered for a year to the L.A. Ramp (LAX)....back to Oakland and transfered in 2003 to San Antonio Ramp (SATR) where I retired last August.
I just finished 28 years.. if those planes could talk Demis-js bouncing off the walls and tha ping of snapping lock. Seen a ramp Manager drop lowers pallet, grab forklift put on tha dolly and jump in tug loaded on plane. Last 10-15 years hard to find good managers. Same individual got in my face and wanted to fight.. ramp/sort life good times.
I work at the tulsa international Airport, and I was working the day this plane landed. Interesting to see all the fire trucks surrounding the jet. Thank God no one was hurt.
To the people commenting about the robust build of the DC-10, and all Douglas aircraft which all tended to be overbuilt. My dad flew N103TV (Transamerica Airlines) new build in 1971, he retired in 1977; TV103 later became FE303 (MD-10) when FedEx acquired it. Had I stayed in commercial aviation and flown for Fed Ex, I could have flown FE303 for my entire career and retired at age 65 and that plane would have outlived us BOTH. To my knowledge it was still flying until a few years ago, making it FIFTY years of service.
As a MEM based spotter, I have caught 306 several times. It is not unusual FedEx had an MD-10 on this route, regularly using them to Sacramento the past few weeks. Along with N316FE, 306FE is due to be one of the last 2 MD-10's retired on New Year's Eve.
FedEx employee here out of SMF - yep, we’ve had them pretty much every day the last two weeks or so. FedEx tries to sort of estimate volumes going to Memphis and Indianapolis and adjusts the planes used (either an MD-10 or 767) accordingly, since SMFR handles nearly all of Northern California (Sacramento to the Oregon/California state line).
I see this was an actual fire, not just a fire indication. These guys did not fool around. They acted quickly and went down fast and to ground in a hurry. What was noticeable is they did a short approach and as a result, the approach did not reach a stabilized approach until late in the pattern. I do believe this is a good indication of just how serious the crew treated this event. And then stopping on the runway and evacuating.
NO FIRE! Instuments INDICATED a possible fire, because escaped cargo (ladybugs) clogged a SMOKE DETECTOR. Being a stupid box of electronics, when the smoke detector could not see the light it acted just the same as if it was full of smoke - sent an alarm to the cockpit, just like it is supposed to do. The smoke detector outside your bedroom would do the same thing - sound the alarm - if IT was clogged with ladybugs.
Forget the "snakes on a plane", watch out for those ladybugs. Better to find the bugs rather than have actual fire, can't think of anything I'd fear worse than fire on an airplane.
With planes that have such good TCAS, you'd think they could just call in "I'm descending" in an emergency. Like how you should always look both ways before crossing the street, unless you're being shot at.
@@ropefreeze1660 They can and they do if the conditions call for it, and usually in that situation ATC will broadcast to other aircraft to stay clear of the airspace
What you usually hear is " Callsign, emergency descent (to 10000ftl)" - especially in case of depressorisation/loss of oxygen. I believe that if this flight hadn't gotten a descent clearance after they said they had to decent *now*, the captain would have probably gone into an emergency descent. However, not every (smaller) plane has TCAS. As you could see, there were mostly GA planes in the airspace around Tulsa.
Hilarious that all this was caused by escaped ladybugs clustering in the cargo compartment smoke detector. I have actually bought ladybugs for my garden before... I assumed they came via truck and the driver could kick open the door if they escaped!
@@K1OIK Because these type threads are chock full of aviators and aviation enthusiasts. Heck, even just PAX (passengers) who've flown enough to know that all airports have a 3 (actually 4) digit code.
@@Randrew What these type threads are full of are a closed club of elites. Who try to show how hip and cool they are by using aircraft terms that easily could be spelled out so the casual viewer could understand them.
If it was in fact a fire, the good news is FedEx restricts ADG (hard haz, including all flammables) to the forward upper, position 1L to to be precise. And most soft haz is also in uppers for logistical reasons. This means a fire in a belly can would likely not be as severe relatively speaking. It is also possible that this was a package in the rear bulk compartment that is loaded with a belt loader from a baggage cart. In the case that this incident was actually lady bugs, that would make since as occasional boxes fall off the belt loaders, this could damage a box containing bugs. As someone who is familiar with the Memphis hub, damaged bug boxes aren’t unheard of, though usually it’s crickets
Our issue (fedex) is undeclared dg... You have no idea where they're loaded if they make it in to the system... Start up companies will save money where ever they can and folks just don't think it is that big of a deal to ship say cologne or what ever as non dg...
@@Broke_Expat within FedEx, DG can only be scanned into a container opened to take DG in the system. That solves the issue with declared DG. Of course nothing can solve people sneaking stuff in their packages undeclared if the shipping location doesn’t catch it though I have been told the x-ray stuff trying to catch contraband
@@rustyshackleford6476 - yup... a favorite for consumers to not declare... We carry the Lipo guard style lithium bags on board the AC now for crew & jump seaters...
This one wasn't an actual fire thankfully (bugs escaped a package and swarmed the smoke detector) I'm sure you know this but others might not - fun fact to piggyback on what you said, that's why ADG is called Accessible Dangerous Goods, it's kept in the forward upper position, where it is in fact, accessible. The one time I get kinda unfriendly with customers on the phone is when I discover they have been, are, or will be shipping undeclared dangerous goods. This is not a game, and people need to know how serious it is. I always tell people to go google UPS flight 6.
Nicely done video and nice job to everyone! One of the rare pitfalls of not having a planned alternate (SWA), even if the weather is good and you’ve got multiple runways at your destination. Not a common happening but, as Murphy says, anything can happen. 🤘
I dont know any link of the chain in the decision making process that will have you designating an alternate when you do not need one. In an emergency the rule is to procede to the closest suitable airport where a sucessful landing is possible. [ especially in a time restricted emergency like a fire ] A airline captain allways knows where he is and airports that occure along his route. Most flight being routine you really cannot survive with that murphy monkey on your back.
I dont know any link of the chain in the decision making process that will have you designating an alternate when you do not need one. In an emergency the rule is to procede to the closest suitable airport where a sucessful landing is possible. [ especially in a time restricted emergency like a fire ] A airline captain always knows where he is and airports that occure along his route. Most flight being routine you really cannot survive with that murphy monkey on your back.
@AirTrafficVisualised Is there any chance the intro-sound could be on the same level as the rest of the video? People watching with earphones would really appreciate it. Well I know (kind off) that it is added as dramatic effect, but what good does it do if some viewer may watch it with their ears ringing....
ive been watching a lot of these videos lately.. ive learned 2 things, that civilian pilots have nerves of steel.. and that planes catch on fire a lot more than i ever thought..
yeah, i thought it was like a super super uncommon thing though, and while low still.. its higher than i estimated.. sry should have expanded on that.. and of course, but if my plane were on fire, i'd get a lil more excited, until it was verified that there wasn't one.
Happy that all turned out well! 😃 To me, it seemed that ARTCC and Approach didn't fully grasp the gravity of this situation, and seemed a little clueless that the DC10 needed to continue descending and get on the ground ASAP. The pilots had that undeniable urgent concern in their voices that they didn't have much time. Even ARFF had to be told to hurry up. I dunno... maybe I'm reading too much into this situation...
@@jim2lane They needed the "loop" to drop a massive amount of altitude... Planes don't just fly straight down... Not to mention, ATC had to clear the airspace around the emergency aircraft to get them down as quickly as possible... Remember, we're really only hearing the ATC audio related to the FEDEX, Ground Ops, & ARFF crew and didn't hear all the other chatter the ATC'ers still needed to deal with the other aircraft around that airspace... They ALL did exactly what needed to be done...
@@Flyby-1000 if you look at their distance from the field when they first declared an emergency their was plenty of time for a rapid descent. I agree with the first commenter in that ATC did not appear to grasp the gravity of the situation. An engine or electrical issue is one thing, but with a fire, you need to get that bird on the ground as quickly as possible. Just 30-60 seconds can be the difference between a controlled landing and the exact opposite
@@jim2lane Why do you think ATC did not understand the situation? Everything appeared to be handled professionally and quickly. That was a rapid descent. It's a big, heavy plane very high up. It takes a while.
@@jim2lane there wasn’t a lot of distance at all, I just looked up the info on this flight, they were descending at more than 4,000’/min and actually hit 5,411’/min during this descent. Also they were just going soooooo fast that’s why the turns were soooo wide. Once you descend below 10,000’ you aren’t suppose to be going faster than 250 knots indicated (which is the speed shown on their instruments), they were doing 430 ground speed (according to FlightAware) which is no where near 250 indicated. Yes it was an emergency I understand, but approach controllers aren’t used to working aircraft that fast nor is that easy to judge. Thankfully everything ended up being okay and they got to the ground safely. Also we don’t know the weather, they can’t just put airplanes on a 3 mile final, if it’s bad weather or marginal they have to do an approach which is roughly about a 10 mile final depending what airport you are flying to. On the RNAV 18L they would have to at least flown to about a 10 mile final to have a legal approach. And also from 31,000’ to 3,000’ they did that in 10 mins which is fast as hell, landed 5 mins later. All of that in 15 mins seems really fast to me, I say kudos to all involved.
They are still used my cargo operators cause they are cheap to get a hold of and they dont fly as often as passanger aircraft so fuel consumption is not too bad over all.
This aircraft was scheduled to be out of service as of Dec 31, 2022. My daughter's favorite episode of Mayday is the one for FedEx 705, so I came across that info when I was looking up information on the plane. (I am trying to find a model to paint for her...)
"We'd like to continue descending", "We'd like to continue the turn." I know ATC doesn't like to bother them but shouldn't they be a bit more proactive and clear them before they have to ask?
Iikely getting things sorted on the field and as an emergency they are able to initiate the turn without atc and break any rule thats needed to ensure the flight ends safely including the one they did of 250kts below 10k they were pushing barber pole til the FAC Im guessing
From other videos I’ve watched, ATC always asks the pilot what they would like to do and will list the options available. Sometimes the pilot will state his intentions or request to ATC after declaring an emergency. In other cases ATC will give vectors to suitable airports for whatever emergency. I guess it could depend on how busy the airspace is also… I’m no expert though….
He was basically just telling ATC what he was going to do, but using indirect speech to do so, just a cultural difference in how someone communicates intentions
In this case it was mostly a formality, but also to make sure they remain clear of other traffic. ATC would have been very busy coordinating/relaying information. As you can hear near the end, the runway was apparently not empty. I think the APP was asking TWR when they could turn inbound. Your really do not want this emergency to go around. However, I'm kind of annyoed that TWR apparently didn't get all the information the pilots gave APP (fuel in pounds, souls).
@@ernestgalvan9037 I'm an aircraft technician for fedex. There was no fire. The crew did blow the lower cargo fire bottle as required by the alert given. Fire crew did not fire the first shot of foam. They did inspect the bay. No fire
@@ernestgalvan9037 The heat signature the fire crew saw was most likely the bleed duct from the APU and #2 engine. Once it cooled off, the heat signature disappeared.
Why do ATC always ask for fuel in hours when that varies significantly with plane weight and type? Wouldn't weight be a better indication of the fire hazard?
They’re asking how long they can fly if needed to divert or re-route. Has nothing to do with people on board. They would be asking “how many souls on board”
Loving the graphics, but please test for a mid range mobile device. Most is great on my Pixel 6 Pro, but not so much on my 2 XL. Smaller text could be bigger, and the glow makes things smudgy. Also, perhaps highlight the communicating approach/tower when they are transmitting. But overall, I LOVE what you're doing.
Thanks for the feedback! Re: the "smudgy glow", what specifically are you referring to? Unfortunately, RUclips doesn't provide me with stats on how many people watch on mobile vs. other (desktop, TV, etc.), so it's difficult to know how to balance clarity for mobile vs. detail for larger screens. I'll keep your suggestions in mind!
@@AirTrafficVisualised I mostly mean in the subtitle, the transmitting station ID that matches the colour highlighting of the plane or airport on the map. Also, I'm amazed that RUclips doesn't give you this info! Typical RUclips tho I guess... Perhaps post a RUclips poll? It's worth just grabbing an old phone and watching one of your busier recent videos on it, that should make it obvious.
Sure is a long time getting down with a fire onboard,geez, I guess it's a process , totally respect the professional manner in which it was all handled,
Yeah, obviously a process especially when the planes is fully loaded. lot of fuel and payload weight. If this happened to me though Id prolly be in 30 degree descent hauling ass lmao I think an onboard fire is the scariest thing a pilot can endure even more while at cruising altitude.
Agreed. With multiple engines, an engine fire is definitely bad, but manageable to some extent. Fire onboard is immediate pucker factor 11. No great way to know how bad it is and what it might damage.
The question is , was Tom Hanks on this flight ? The movies have made it clear to never travel with Tom Hanks and he does have a very bad history with Fed Ex
I have added a pinned comment with this information, and have updated the title and description of the video to reflect that there was a fire INDICATION, not necessarily a fire.
Good question! Controllers are not required to use "and maintain", ICAO standard phraseology is just "descend to FL180". However, controllers may choose to add "and maintain" for additional clarity, to cancel procedure altitude restrictions, or to stop pilots from bugging them with requests for further climb/descent. Or, in this case, probably just out of habit. "Descend FL180" and "descend and maintain FL180" essentially mean the same thing.
I don’t know who “airtrafficvisualised” is but in the US FAA Order 7110.65, (controllers procedures) instructs controllers to issue altitude assignments as “climb/descend and maintain…”. I was taught that and in 30 years of ATC never did anything different.
![FedEx MD11 Makes EMERGENCY LANDING After Engine Problem [ATC audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U0bzFlGaWm4/mqdefault.jpg)
![FedEx MD11 Makes EMERGENCY LANDING After Engine Problem [ATC audio]](/img/tr.png)
![CRASH-LANDING AT MIAMI! MD-82 Skids Off Runway and Fuel Explodes as Gear COLLAPSES [ATC audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tkxrSAOtyS0/mqdefault.jpg)
According to some commenters who claim to have been involved in the incident, there was no fire on board. Instead, ladybugs managed to escape their package and swarm the cargo smoke detector, causing a false fire indication on the flight deck. The heat signature detected by ARFFS was caused by exhaust from the #2 engine / APU bleed duct, which cooled after the engines and APU were shut down. Mechanics found no evidence of fire or smoke during a post-flight inspection, only thousands of loose bugs.
Don't lie, those ladybugs had matches on them...
Can you post up the Huntington Beach Police Helicopter that went down?
The reason why a computer glitch is called "A Bug".
@@ffjsb 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@ffjsb they were defund the police pot heads... plain and simple.
The Fact that this is the plane that did nosedives like more than a decade ago and is still in service today is just wow
I heard they retired it last year, at the end of December...
Wow, thats sad. Sorry for the late reply
Judging by the other comments the back story of this plane deserves a video all by itself.
I love the maritime spirit in the language of "souls on board."
My customer service hope is that one day on the ATC radio some fed-up pilot cracks wise and says, for example,
"We got 143 souls on board, plus two really mean passengers."
Wow, N306FE is the same plane involved in the Fedex 705 hijacking.
holy hell thats a weird coincidence.
Time to retire that cursed plane!
Wow. Well-spotted.
Thats plane needs to be dumped in the ocean
It survived both incidents, is currently over 36 years old, and is still in service. That is one tough plane!
Impressive. That's the 2nd fastest descent N306FE has made in her lifetime.
I laughed when the controller said "If you can't make that turn" captain should have said "Sir this plane has made much tighter turns than that one"
And although I know normally aircraft are referred to as she, but this one I always call "he" because I know it's name is actually John.
@@singemfrc HAHAHA Yeah true tho after what First Officer James Tucker (I think I said his last name wrong) the guy who was also involved in Fight for your life (FedEx 705 or Express 705 as that was its callsign) made that thing go towards Mach-tuck or Mach-1 correct me on that and the DC-10-30F (At the time) was only designed for only up to 695knots Tucker was over 800kts in that big dive and was at a 140 degree bank as well
@@singemfrc I find it weird, you're right because it is a masc name but I'm so used to referring as planes as "she". Uhh... What's N306FE's gender identity then?
@@singemfrc Yeah N306FE nickname was John Peter Jr
Great CRM, I am also a freight dog, this is my worst fear. When and if this happens I (and my colleagues because we talk about this scenario frequently) am going to shed as much speed and altitude as fast as I can...exactly what this crew did. Amazing video
Thanks very much, fingers crossed you only ever experience this in the simulator!
Bs. If they didn’t smell it it was faulty indication. Armatures
Ladybugs in the smoke detector. They were live cargo and got loose.
@@pinkdoughnut869 Think again. The fire was reported in the lower aft compartment. The smell of it could not have made its way to the cockpit. You need to know what you're talking about before you open your mouth. By the way, the word is amateur, not armature.
@@pinkdoughnut869 Such an assumption in a situation like that can get people killed and crash an aircraft. The only assumption that any professional pilot who gets a CARGO FIRE
indication makes is that there IS a fire and that they need to get on the ground as quickly as possible.
Time crunch! Also impressed that the low fuel aircraft went alternate without question.
Professionalism everywhere!
Kudos to pilots & ATC for handling this situation!
Fire in the cargo bay... sounds like a nightmare but everyone involved handled it like it was just a spilt drink excellent communication and professionalism good to hear no one hurt and the plane was good to fly after just a few days
There was No fire. Ladybugs escaped a package and clogged the smoke detectors causing a false indication.
@@rustyshackleford6476 where did this info come from? Avherald says a heat signature was found and dealt with.
@@LorenzoGiordanoGomes I’m an AMT at Fed. I read the write up and saw the photos
@@LorenzoGiordanoGomes The heat signature that the fire crews thought they saw was the bleed duct from the APU and #2 engine. I work for purple at TUL and by the time I got to the aircraft it had already cooled down and no more heat signature. Once we opened the cargo doors the only thing we found was thousands of ladybugs. Fire dept. checked the bays, no heat signatures, no smoke, no signs of fire.
@@rustyshackleford6476 Source?
This plane has been up to Mach 1.2 as well!
This air-frame is indestructible....
Probably has an F-4 radar weapons system in the radome. (for strafing runs, ya know)
Gonna take a lot more than ladybugs to do John in!!
you've obviously never been to north tulsa.
If only Swissair Flight 111's pilots displayed the same amount of urgency and respect for the seriousness of their situation. Fire onboard is probably the worst thing for an aircrew to hear. I felt the second-hand anxiety for these pilots. Respect to them and atc for the flawless job.
Most people agree Swiss 111 wouldn't have made it anyways. They followed the checklist and industry standards of the time. Had they not wasted time to dump fuel they likely would have been over a populated area when the flight control wiring was destroyed by the fire. Their actions were what they were asked to do and saved many people on the ground.
Of all the people to blame for Swiss Air 111, the pilots are absolutely not at fault. How many commercial airliners have you been the Captain on while a raging fire disconnected the flight deck from the aircraft controls? I'm going to guess zero.
@@hewhohasnoidentity4377 Yes that was in fact true, investigators concluded even if they didn’t dump fuel Swissair 111 would have not made it to Halifax in any circumstances there was not enough time
They concluded from where they declared Pan Pan Pan at 10:14 it would take approximately 13 minutes to get to Halifax (Not including dumping fuel) by 10:24 (10 mins later) that’s when all electronics went haywire and that’s when Moncton ATC (That’s in New Brunswick I think in Maine or in Canada) lost contact with the plane and it’s secondary radar (Primary Radar was used until the plane crashed at 10:30 uncontrollable I believe) The last words by Swissair 111 was by the First Officer saying “Rouf” or Up in Swiss
Also the Final Report states that electrical arcing Behind the Pilots was the cause of the crash the wiring itself was just wires and a bracket and would arc over time and couple with the In-Flight Entertainment System increased temperatures with an insulator that is flammable there was no realistic chance Swissair 111 was going to make it
Also Additionally, When the Swissair pilots did the checklist “Smoke of unknown origin” they had turned off the recirculating fans that the reason why the fire didn’t grow. Had they known where the fire is they would never have turned off the Recirculating Fans
But in this case Pilot Error wasn’t the cause but that little fact was just a factor that the pilots never knew but were never at fault for
The probable cause was due to electrical arcing behind the cockpit which grew in intensity after the recirculating fans were turned by the pilots as per Swissair checklist states, No fault was involved with the pilots even tho they turned off the recirculating fans but were forced to turn it off as they were told to follow the checklist then if it doesn’t work divert immediately. So more fault was on the airplane training was great it’s the response was delayed due to following checklists with a possible fire onboard
Look at ValueJet, colossal fire, landing wasn’t even in the cards. Air Canada, they landed, though just narrowly. Of course they were both questioned why they didn’t land immediately immediately, but was pointed out that it was a DC-9, not an F-15. I think SwissAir could conceivably have landed, but between the fuel, the service, the protocol, and the fans, the outcome was guaranteed. Had they had the indication, and immediately dropped everything and was hell bent on landing right f’ng now, i see it being probable. Of course hindsight is 20-20.
14 min from level in cruise flight to touchdown without convenience of ILS (RNAV briefing takes longer than ILS)…very, very well done.
Swissair procedures were not to land overweight. Hindsight is always 20/20. I flew the MD11 for nineteen years. Subsequently, we were taught to land regardless of aircraft weight.
I love the pilots. They're so calm and try trying to tell them that, "we're descending because of a fire alarm in the cargo area". LöL! I would think like, "HEY ATC!!!! THIS PLANE IS ON FIRE IN THE CARGO HOLD!!!!". Where as these guys sound slightly stressed. Great training and great job!
A little scary. I was returning home from a basketball game in my Cessna 182 when I started smelling smoke on final. It was after the normal closing time for the tower so I was surprised when he cleared me to land. I was on final so I ignored the smoke smell and just landed as quickly as possible and got off at the nearest taxiway and shut off the landing lights and taxi lights and was ready to grab the extinguisher from between the seats and evacuate but the smoke smell immediately started to dissapate so I taxied to the FBO and noted in the log that the plane needed to be checked out before another flight. They replaced the landing light switch. I can't help to think that I should have declared the emergency since the controller was still in the tower I would have felt pretty stupid if actual flames started and I just had the little extinguisher. The next day after thinking about it I decided if it ever happened again I would ask for the help if it was available.
FBO?
Landing the aircraft was your priority in that moment, not communication.
@@K1OIK Fixed Base Operator.... It's the company at the airport that supplies services, such as fuel, plane storage, maintenance, etc. Many also rent airplanes out.
@@jcl410 What these type threads are full of are a closed club of elites. Who try to show how hip and cool they ate by using aircraft terms
that easily could be spelled out so the casual viewer could understand them.
I retired from FEDEX last August after 26 years of Service and this video makes Me remember some very interesting experiences at the Tarmac...some scary, some funny and some very inspiring.
Man, I used to work at FedEx on the tarmac, it was such a fun job! I do still miss it but management makes or breaks any job I'm sure you know.
@@danilocastillo5714 yeap I know, 18 of those 26 years I was a Ramp Agent and It was real fun....until It wasn't
@@topaztec where’d you work at??
@@danilocastillo5714 I started in 95 at the Oakland Hub (OAKH), transfered for a year to the L.A. Ramp (LAX)....back to Oakland and transfered in 2003 to San Antonio Ramp (SATR) where I retired last August.
I just finished 28 years.. if those planes could talk Demis-js bouncing off the walls and tha ping of snapping lock.
Seen a ramp Manager drop lowers pallet, grab forklift put on tha dolly and jump in tug loaded on plane. Last 10-15 years hard to find good managers. Same individual got in my face and wanted to fight.. ramp/sort life good times.
I can’t even imagine the time it takes to make one of your videos but I certainly appreciate them! Outstanding!
Isn't that just what you need, an ATC who has a total grasp of the situation!?
Hi
I work at the tulsa international Airport, and I was working the day this plane landed. Interesting to see all the fire trucks surrounding the jet. Thank God no one was hurt.
The visualisation is 🔥
Awesome work!
This is the same plane that ended up going over the speed of sound!!! Look up fedex flight 705.
The only DC-10/MD-10 to have flown inverted!
To the people commenting about the robust build of the DC-10, and all Douglas aircraft which all tended to be overbuilt.
My dad flew N103TV (Transamerica Airlines) new build in 1971, he retired in 1977; TV103 later became FE303 (MD-10) when FedEx acquired it. Had I stayed in commercial aviation and flown for Fed Ex, I could have flown FE303 for my entire career and retired at age 65 and that plane would have outlived us BOTH. To my knowledge it was still flying until a few years ago, making it FIFTY years of service.
This is the second time in a week I’ve seen video of a serious emergency ending in safe landing. I love these!
I knew that tail number looked familiar.
If you know you know.
As a MEM based spotter, I have caught 306 several times. It is not unusual FedEx had an MD-10 on this route, regularly using them to Sacramento the past few weeks. Along with N316FE, 306FE is due to be one of the last 2 MD-10's retired on New Year's Eve.
FedEx employee here out of SMF - yep, we’ve had them pretty much every day the last two weeks or so. FedEx tries to sort of estimate volumes going to Memphis and Indianapolis and adjusts the planes used (either an MD-10 or 767) accordingly, since SMFR handles nearly all of Northern California (Sacramento to the Oregon/California state line).
@@chriscarpenter1703 I'll miss them when they're gone later this year. I'm guessing it will be split between the MD-11 and 767 out to MFR when gone.
Spotted 306 today in Memphis David.
Ugh I know I keep wanting to catch 306 at SMF but I always just miss him
@@singemfrc Try Flight Aware singemfro
The most dangerous part of this was ending up in North Tulsa…
Lower aft cargo fire indication but the tower says they see no smoke from the cockpit....unreal
This is quite possibly the last DC-10 emergency with Fedex set to retire the MD-10s later this year.
Amazingly calm. Well done everyone-
I see this was an actual fire, not just a fire indication. These guys did not fool around. They acted quickly and went down fast and to ground in a hurry. What was noticeable is they did a short approach and as a result, the approach did not reach a stabilized approach until late in the pattern. I do believe this is a good indication of just how serious the crew treated this event. And then stopping on the runway and evacuating.
I've read online that it was a false indication caused by escaped ladybugs.
NO FIRE! Instuments INDICATED a possible fire, because escaped cargo (ladybugs) clogged a SMOKE DETECTOR. Being a stupid box of electronics, when the smoke detector could not see the light it acted just the same as if it was full of smoke - sent an alarm to the cockpit, just like it is supposed to do. The smoke detector outside your bedroom would do the same thing - sound the alarm - if IT was clogged with ladybugs.
Forget the "snakes on a plane", watch out for those ladybugs. Better to find the bugs rather than have actual fire, can't think of anything I'd fear worse than fire on an airplane.
With planes that have such good TCAS, you'd think they could just call in "I'm descending" in an emergency. Like how you should always look both ways before crossing the street, unless you're being shot at.
More specifically in a time critical emergency like this one
@@ropefreeze1660 They can and they do if the conditions call for it, and usually in that situation ATC will broadcast to other aircraft to stay clear of the airspace
What you usually hear is " Callsign, emergency descent (to 10000ftl)" - especially in case of depressorisation/loss of oxygen. I believe that if this flight hadn't gotten a descent clearance after they said they had to decent *now*, the captain would have probably gone into an emergency descent.
However, not every (smaller) plane has TCAS. As you could see, there were mostly GA planes in the airspace around Tulsa.
You're correct!! Get that plane on the ground now!!!!
Hilarious that all this was caused by escaped ladybugs clustering in the cargo compartment smoke detector.
I have actually bought ladybugs for my garden before... I assumed they came via truck and the driver could kick open the door if they escaped!
I work for DHL at the CVG hub and hate the thought of fire on board a cargo plane, even if they are a competitor.
CVG?
@@K1OIK Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport in Covington KY.
@@bereabeard Why not be clear and say that in the first place?
@@K1OIK Because these type threads are chock full of aviators and aviation enthusiasts. Heck, even just PAX (passengers) who've flown enough to know that all airports have a 3 (actually 4) digit code.
@@Randrew What these type threads are full of are a closed club of elites. Who try to show how hip and cool they are by using aircraft terms that easily could be spelled out so the casual viewer could understand them.
Awesome visuals on the video
Tulsa boys don't play, they'll take care of ya. Good job pilots!
Great presentation. Glad everyone was safe. 👍✈✈👍
Cheers Diane!
Dam. Great video work. Impressive. Your getting better and better.
Thank God my package arrived safely!
You guys did a great job. Like the speed all the way to short final. Proud of ya.
If it was in fact a fire, the good news is FedEx restricts ADG (hard haz, including all flammables) to the forward upper, position 1L to to be precise. And most soft haz is also in uppers for logistical reasons. This means a fire in a belly can would likely not be as severe relatively speaking. It is also possible that this was a package in the rear bulk compartment that is loaded with a belt loader from a baggage cart. In the case that this incident was actually lady bugs, that would make since as occasional boxes fall off the belt loaders, this could damage a box containing bugs. As someone who is familiar with the Memphis hub, damaged bug boxes aren’t unheard of, though usually it’s crickets
Our issue (fedex) is undeclared dg... You have no idea where they're loaded if they make it in to the system... Start up companies will save money where ever they can and folks just don't think it is that big of a deal to ship say cologne or what ever as non dg...
@@Broke_Expat I saw the fire department raking smoldering lithium batteries out of a can a couple years ago. That’s some scary shit
@@Broke_Expat within FedEx, DG can only be scanned into a container opened to take DG in the system. That solves the issue with declared DG. Of course nothing can solve people sneaking stuff in their packages undeclared if the shipping location doesn’t catch it though I have been told the x-ray stuff trying to catch contraband
@@rustyshackleford6476 - yup... a favorite for consumers to not declare... We carry the Lipo guard style lithium bags on board the AC now for crew & jump seaters...
This one wasn't an actual fire thankfully (bugs escaped a package and swarmed the smoke detector)
I'm sure you know this but others might not - fun fact to piggyback on what you said, that's why ADG is called Accessible Dangerous Goods, it's kept in the forward upper position, where it is in fact, accessible.
The one time I get kinda unfriendly with customers on the phone is when I discover they have been, are, or will be shipping undeclared dangerous goods. This is not a game, and people need to know how serious it is. I always tell people to go google UPS flight 6.
Forget the fire BS and the history of the aircraft. I just wanna know how I file a claim for my missing ladybugs.
A high school classmates husband is a pilot for FedEx. Hope that he never has any problems with his planes. They are good people and good friends.
That was my package. When will it be coming............
When it does arrive, you may find it a few bugs short😁
I do not care about the fire. I want my package right now.
I have to give these pilots credit, if have panicked my backside off and likely crashed.
There's a few places where I really would not want a fire, an airplane is one of them.
Like NotBoeingnotgoing said below, great CRM. Great graphics with the video as well.
Nicely done video and nice job to everyone! One of the rare pitfalls of not having a planned alternate (SWA), even if the weather is good and you’ve got multiple runways at your destination. Not a common happening but, as Murphy says, anything can happen. 🤘
I dont know any link of the chain in the decision making process that will have you designating an alternate when you do not need one. In an emergency the rule is to procede to the closest suitable airport where a sucessful landing is possible. [ especially in a time restricted emergency like a fire ] A airline captain allways knows where he is and airports that occure along his route. Most flight being routine you really cannot survive with that murphy monkey on your back.
I dont know any link of the chain in the decision making process that will have you designating an alternate when you do not need one. In an emergency the rule is to procede to the closest suitable airport where a sucessful landing is possible. [ especially in a time restricted emergency like a fire ] A airline captain always knows where he is and airports that occure along his route. Most flight being routine you really cannot survive with that murphy monkey on your back.
It Hass to be terrifying to be flying a giant tube of oxygen.
Thankfully it's air, not just oxygen. A tube of oxygen Hass to be scary though, can't argue there.
That has to be every cargo plane pilot's nightmare, a fire on board even if it turns out to be a false alarm.
I’d be lying if I said I didn’t miss this part of the job.
The ladybugs were extinguished? Lol
Wow!! Thank you for sharing..
Was on the sdge of my seat. Glad it turned to be lady bugs. Great job documenting this event.
Thanks for the follow-up.
@AirTrafficVisualised Is there any chance the intro-sound could be on the same level as the rest of the video? People watching with earphones would really appreciate it. Well I know (kind off) that it is added as dramatic effect, but what good does it do if some viewer may watch it with their ears ringing....
TY For the great video,,! I joined your channel,,,,,,,,,,,, keep them coming.
TY?
ive been watching a lot of these videos lately.. ive learned 2 things, that civilian pilots have nerves of steel.. and that planes catch on fire a lot more than i ever thought..
This was a false alarm. No fire. A bunch of ladybugs escaped their packaging and triggered the alarm.
Very few actual fires, most are false alarms.
Jeff, you train for this. They did as trained. If you shit your pants whenever you have an emergency you're in the wrong business.
Lithium ion batteries...
yeah, i thought it was like a super super uncommon thing though, and while low still.. its higher than i estimated.. sry should have expanded on that.. and of course, but if my plane were on fire, i'd get a lil more excited, until it was verified that there wasn't one.
Thank for sharing. Happy the way turn out
Why would ATC say "there's not a ton of people evacuating" when they knew there were exactly 3 SOB??
Happy that all turned out well! 😃
To me, it seemed that ARTCC and Approach didn't fully grasp the gravity of this situation, and seemed a little clueless that the DC10 needed to continue descending and get on the ground ASAP. The pilots had that undeniable urgent concern in their voices that they didn't have much time. Even ARFF had to be told to hurry up.
I dunno... maybe I'm reading too much into this situation...
I agree, the approach should have been absolute direct instead of the loop they gave them
@@jim2lane They needed the "loop" to drop a massive amount of altitude... Planes don't just fly straight down... Not to mention, ATC had to clear the airspace around the emergency aircraft to get them down as quickly as possible... Remember, we're really only hearing the ATC audio related to the FEDEX, Ground Ops, & ARFF crew and didn't hear all the other chatter the ATC'ers still needed to deal with the other aircraft around that airspace... They ALL did exactly what needed to be done...
@@Flyby-1000 if you look at their distance from the field when they first declared an emergency their was plenty of time for a rapid descent. I agree with the first commenter in that ATC did not appear to grasp the gravity of the situation. An engine or electrical issue is one thing, but with a fire, you need to get that bird on the ground as quickly as possible. Just 30-60 seconds can be the difference between a controlled landing and the exact opposite
@@jim2lane Why do you think ATC did not understand the situation? Everything appeared to be handled professionally and quickly. That was a rapid descent. It's a big, heavy plane very high up. It takes a while.
@@jim2lane there wasn’t a lot of distance at all, I just looked up the info on this flight, they were descending at more than 4,000’/min and actually hit 5,411’/min during this descent. Also they were just going soooooo fast that’s why the turns were soooo wide. Once you descend below 10,000’ you aren’t suppose to be going faster than 250 knots indicated (which is the speed shown on their instruments), they were doing 430 ground speed (according to FlightAware) which is no where near 250 indicated. Yes it was an emergency I understand, but approach controllers aren’t used to working aircraft that fast nor is that easy to judge. Thankfully everything ended up being okay and they got to the ground safely. Also we don’t know the weather, they can’t just put airplanes on a 3 mile final, if it’s bad weather or marginal they have to do an approach which is roughly about a 10 mile final depending what airport you are flying to. On the RNAV 18L they would have to at least flown to about a 10 mile final to have a legal approach. And also from 31,000’ to 3,000’ they did that in 10 mins which is fast as hell, landed 5 mins later. All of that in 15 mins seems really fast to me, I say kudos to all involved.
I live in Tulsa and I remember seeing this plane. I thought it was weird because I would’ve never seen any FedEx plane.
Damn ATC
Let these boys land this bird
Without the interruptions
The aircraft might have a new name called Ladybug 306!
She’s got quite a reputation.
Excellent job by everyone and impressive descent 🙌🏻
Didn't even know DC-10's were in active use. Thought they were long since consigned to the scrap heap for their horrendous fuel economy.
They are still used my cargo operators cause they are cheap to get a hold of and they dont fly as often as passanger aircraft so fuel consumption is not too bad over all.
19 in the sky flying
The speed they were moving at below 5,000 feet! Haha there were moving! Booking It! lol
I'm fearful about fires and don't know how well I'd handle one a plane in which I'm a passenger. These pilots are calm, cool, and collected. 😊
"The fire was extinguished"? There was no fire. It was ladybugs believe it or not.
I love it! thanks for such great work!
This aircraft was scheduled to be out of service as of Dec 31, 2022. My daughter's favorite episode of Mayday is the one for FedEx 705, so I came across that info when I was looking up information on the plane. (I am trying to find a model to paint for her...)
That moment when you realise this is the same aircraft involved in the 1994 Fedex hijacking! :O
"We'd like to continue descending", "We'd like to continue the turn." I know ATC doesn't like to bother them but shouldn't they be a bit more proactive and clear them before they have to ask?
Iikely getting things sorted on the field and as an emergency they are able to initiate the turn without atc and break any rule thats needed to ensure the flight ends safely including the one they did of 250kts below 10k they were pushing barber pole til the FAC Im guessing
From other videos I’ve watched, ATC always asks the pilot what they would like to do and will list the options available. Sometimes the pilot will state his intentions or request to ATC after declaring an emergency. In other cases ATC will give vectors to suitable airports for whatever emergency. I guess it could depend on how busy the airspace is also…
I’m no expert though….
He was basically just telling ATC what he was going to do, but using indirect speech to do so, just a cultural difference in how someone communicates intentions
In this case it was mostly a formality, but also to make sure they remain clear of other traffic. ATC would have been very busy coordinating/relaying information. As you can hear near the end, the runway was apparently not empty. I think the APP was asking TWR when they could turn inbound. Your really do not want this emergency to go around.
However, I'm kind of annyoed that TWR apparently didn't get all the information the pilots gave APP (fuel in pounds, souls).
@@madiis18account Cultural my ass. If my ass is on fire, being polite is not on my list of priorities.
Wow! Glad they got everyone off safely! I guess this is why shipping explosives is against the rules.
Fun fact this happened in the future look at the date in the top right corner of the screen. Lol good landing. I did watch it land in person.
07/06/2022 is June 6th in UTC/Zulu time signatures (whatever thay're called) , Europe, etc. Day/Month/Year. (I still like the way you think, lol)
@@UncleKenInAz June 7th but you're right ^^. DD-MM-YYYY is used almost everywhere outside the US.
YYYY-MM-DD should be the standard
@@bkdotcom I don't mind it. It's fine. DD-MM-YYYY and YYYY-MM-DD can be used simultaneously without confusion
wow I saw N306FE a few days before this happened lol
Aaah that’s why my package was late
There was no fire on board. It was a false warning
No fire on board?
Fire crew extinguished the fire, so yes, there WAS a fire.
@@ernestgalvan9037 I'm an aircraft technician for fedex. There was no fire. The crew did blow the lower cargo fire bottle as required by the alert given. Fire crew did not fire the first shot of foam. They did inspect the bay. No fire
@@ernestgalvan9037 - There was no fire, as has been stated. Aircraft ferried to MEM and was back in service within a few days.
@@ernestgalvan9037 There was No fire. Ladybugs escaped a package and clogged the smoke detectors causing a false indication. I am also an AMT at FedEx
@@ernestgalvan9037 The heat signature the fire crew saw was most likely the bleed duct from the APU and #2 engine. Once it cooled off, the heat signature disappeared.
SO !...this is why my cigars haven't arrived as yet ?
396FE, the legend. With ladybugs.
306 fat fingers
Why do ATC always ask for fuel in hours when that varies significantly with plane weight and type? Wouldn't weight be a better indication of the fire hazard?
Sounds bad but simply
How many bodies we looking for if u crash and the plane comes apart
How big can we expect the fire to be
They’re asking how long they can fly if needed to divert or re-route. Has nothing to do with people on board. They would be asking “how many souls on board”
Thank you.
These are the real unsung American heroes.
Loving the graphics, but please test for a mid range mobile device. Most is great on my Pixel 6 Pro, but not so much on my 2 XL. Smaller text could be bigger, and the glow makes things smudgy. Also, perhaps highlight the communicating approach/tower when they are transmitting. But overall, I LOVE what you're doing.
It's fine for me (6.4 display).
Thanks for the feedback! Re: the "smudgy glow", what specifically are you referring to? Unfortunately, RUclips doesn't provide me with stats on how many people watch on mobile vs. other (desktop, TV, etc.), so it's difficult to know how to balance clarity for mobile vs. detail for larger screens. I'll keep your suggestions in mind!
@@AirTrafficVisualised I mostly mean in the subtitle, the transmitting station ID that matches the colour highlighting of the plane or airport on the map.
Also, I'm amazed that RUclips doesn't give you this info! Typical RUclips tho I guess...
Perhaps post a RUclips poll?
It's worth just grabbing an old phone and watching one of your busier recent videos on it, that should make it obvious.
I work at FedEx and I talked with the guys. The aft caught fire but everyone was ok
What are the odds is the same bird?? Glad to hear wasn't like last time
Sure is a long time getting down with a fire onboard,geez, I guess it's a process , totally respect the professional manner in which it was all handled,
Yeah, obviously a process especially when the planes is fully loaded. lot of fuel and payload weight. If this happened to me though Id prolly be in 30 degree descent hauling ass lmao I think an onboard fire is the scariest thing a pilot can endure even more while at cruising altitude.
Agreed. With multiple engines, an engine fire is definitely bad, but manageable to some extent. Fire onboard is immediate pucker factor 11. No great way to know how bad it is and what it might damage.
The font for the frequency
The question is , was Tom Hanks on this flight ? The movies have made it clear to never travel with Tom Hanks and he does have a very bad history with Fed Ex
GREAT video. Thanks
"Mayday mayday mayday FedEx 463 cargo fire, need immediate decent and vectors to Tulsa"
I know the FedEx aircraft mechanics at Sacramento CA, they always chilling and smoking outside instead of fixing the planes.
typically there is not a lot of repair work to perform.
Heard it live
Why didn't the callsign change to MAYDAY FEDEX 463 HEAVY? Well done all👍
I work at SMF for fedex lol, and I know the exact guy who onloaded the aft bulk
Everyone remembers their first box of ladybugs?
There was No fire. Ladybugs escaped a package and clogged the smoke detectors causing a false indication. Please correct this.
Surprised it wasn't lithium batteries again.
Hello Rusty, please see my response to Daniel Sullivan for more details. Can you please provide a source for your information?
@@AirTrafficVisualised Ladybugs. My SIL works FedEx air freight and confirmed it was ladybugs. Said they all had a good laugh about the "fire."
@@AirTrafficVisualised I’m an AMT at Fed and read the MX updates and saw the attached pictures
I have added a pinned comment with this information, and have updated the title and description of the video to reflect that there was a fire INDICATION, not necessarily a fire.
Probably a cargo involving some Samsung Galaxy Note 7's randomly catching fire 🔥
Nice video! I was just wondering why they all keep saying to „descend and maintain“? I mean, what would they do if the clearance was „descend FL180“?
Good question! Controllers are not required to use "and maintain", ICAO standard phraseology is just "descend to FL180". However, controllers may choose to add "and maintain" for additional clarity, to cancel procedure altitude restrictions, or to stop pilots from bugging them with requests for further climb/descent. Or, in this case, probably just out of habit. "Descend FL180" and "descend and maintain FL180" essentially mean the same thing.
I don’t know who “airtrafficvisualised” is but in the US FAA Order 7110.65, (controllers procedures) instructs controllers to issue altitude assignments as “climb/descend and maintain…”.
I was taught that and in 30 years of ATC never did anything different.
@@wturn5354 but why? What would US pilots do if you for once omitted the „and maintain“ part?