My mom always told me that my grandpa died watching a boxing match. So I did some research and found that he dies on May 20th 1985. He was watching this fight. He liked Holmes because he was Ali's sparring partner. This fight holds a special place in my heart. R.i.p Lloyd R. Kyle.
I would rather watch Homes much more than Ali!! Why? His technique was always more consistent even though he was not quite as good overall. I think Holmes was better but didn't have as much natural talent. Holmes did have a real jab and not just a backfist. It's so full of conjecture. It's hard to make a decision on who was better. I think Carl won this fight. BTW I was a cornerman for 15 years with three world champions. We had some records also. Ali was much better before he was stripped and suspended. Yet he beat a monster of George Foreman. He then took revenge on Frazier!! They destroyed each other. Such heart Neither was ever the same.
@Jojew Yes, and respected the nation where he earned most of his cash! Don't know if Holmes served (although Norton did), however I believe had he been called, Larry Hohmes whould had serves his nation. Ali never held the title near as long as Homes, before nor after his suspension. How Ali gets the #1 slot in all time greats I'll kever know, because he dodged battle for his nation (that is again, where he made his cash & retired). While it's tough to outright name Holmes #1, a case could be made for it, the same for Foreman & to some degree, Mike Tyson & Lennox Lewis, one of the select few who via rematch, beat every opponent he faced. Including nearly derailing the career of Kitchsko early, the refs shouldn't had stopped the fight & his eye would had been so fucked up to fight again. 60 stiches & plastic surgery needed is not enough to prove who won? All (other than Kitchsko) deserves to be in the Top 5 of modern era boxing. Yes, Holmes best Ali's bitch ass & I love to watch that fight every month. That's Ali, when needed, he got Dundee to throw the towel in, rather than take his ass whipping like a man. There were many men & women also who didn't want to kill the enemy (some also for spitiual reasons), yet tens of thousands serves in that War alone. Ali doesn't deserve a Top 10 spot.
I could be wrong but I believe this was the last time one of the three major networks televised a heavyweight title fight live in prime time. I miss those days.
Yes, after this the Heavyweight Championship moved off free tv which was supported solely by broadcast advertising and the site fee, if there was one. There's more of a story of what happened to bring this about and how it relates to a great deal more.
I saw some guys giving the young Cassius Clay that work but the fighters was so no named that it's hard to fi d the footage, so when they do when 5 or 6 notable fights it make them look really great
That's what hurt boxing . No more recognition with regular non - paying cable customers .Boxing had more familiarization .A lot of boxers now are strangers because of it .
@@michaelclayton3114 Yep, by the mid 1990s it was really bad. The one that I think of most was Vinny Pazienza vs Roberto Duran, that should have been for free on network tv.
Holmes got a gift that night. So he really shouldn't have been mad when he lost to Michael Spinks because he really had gotten away with a couple victories he may not have really deserved
@@djhardcorproductions6132 In my opinion, Holmes was so lucky throughout his career. He really lost against Ken Norton, Tim Witherspoon and Carl Williams. Not to mention the fact that he ducked fighters like Greg page and Pinklon Thomas.
Larry Holmes was a good champion,7 years at the top,underfeated as WBC champion and had one of the best jabs in the heavyweights.He was never given his respect or due,he is one of the top 5 in greatest Heavyweight champions in history.Larry Holmes is my favorite Heavyweight!
Well.. listen to the fans late in his fight with Ray Mercer. Old Larry banged away at that monster that whole fight and by the end the fans began to realize just what a legend he was. Then he took on Holyfield and looked good doing it. I think he got his respect eventually
Holmes is one of my favorite boxers, but on this occasion I'm forced to admit I saw the fight for his opponent. Williams consistently out-jabbed Holmes, negated his attacks, and won the majority of the rounds. Holmes certainly landed the heavier punches but not nearly enough of them. That being said I couldn't argue against anyone who saw it for either fighter - most of these rounds were so close that you could have a wide variety of scores. I might even if I watch this a year from now. Williams 144, Holmes 142.
Larry Holmes was a proud, gifted, and very brave fighter. Unfortunately for him, he didn't become champion until he was almost 30 years old. This makes his accomplishments as champion even more impressive.
in the late 70s into the mid-80s is when every single weekend on one of the networks there was either a championship fight or two top contenders fighting each other
@@djhardcorproductions6132 You got that right my friend.... EVERY weekend , without fail , on free tv , great championship fights or top contenders going up against each other.....
I scored the fight 143-142 for Williams, but Holmes once again proved why he is 1 of the 3 greatest heavyweights in boxing history. In his 20th title defense, the way past his prime Holmes demonstrated his incredible versatility and great heart by pounding Williams to the body in the 9th round. After the fight, Eddie Futch stated, "Ali didn't throw 100 body punches in his entire career, but Larry listened to my advice in the corner and like he always seems to do, he finds a way to win." For whatever reason, most young boxing fans place little to no importance on boxing intangibles. They get all excited about Tyson's greatest knockout wins and/or the Lewis' longevity, but give a free pass to both men getting knocked out in their primes by journeyman heavyweights and NEVER winning a fight after being knocked down or behind on points.
You have no idea what a journeyman is if you think Douglas, Rahman or McCall come under that description. Then you come up with some illogical condition as though to justify your position with the "Didn't win a fight after being knocked down or after being behind on points" which makes no sense. That's without the fact that you're wrong with Lewis in fact winning a fight by stoppage after being behind on points against Vitali Klitschko. But to top it off, you look at how Lewis lost those fights against Rahman and McCall with the McCall fight being stopped when it shouldn't have. But you should know all about Don King trying to freeze Lewis out as he wouldn't sign up with him. Then the Rahman fight with Lewis turning up to South Africa far too late to acclimatise to the altitude where he gassed out badly and was seen with his mouth wide open from the start trying to get air into his lungs. You however did get the right winner in this fight as Williams did in fact win but got jobbed.
@@seablock Fine...Douglas/Rahman/McCall were not true journeyman, but unlike Tyson and Lewis (e.g., twice), Holmes NEVER lost in his prime. You can make all the excuses you want about those 3 losses, but the FACT remains that Tyson and Lewis combined for 3 defeats by knockout when they were in their prime. I was surprised that Lewis was behind 56-58 on all 3 scorecards in the last fight of his career. My bad, but it doesn't change the importance of intangibles when judging the resume of a fighter. Time and time again, a prime Larry Holmes found a way to win whereas everyone's favorite highlight reel (e.g., Mike Tyson) was knocked out in his prime by a good, but not great or even very good fighter. The same holds true for Lewis' 2 knockout losses which went a combined 7 rounds. For me, the main example of what made Holmes 1 of the 3 greatest heavyweights in boxing history was his performance against then undefeated Ray Mercer. The 42 year old Holmes dominated Mercer whereas Mercer gave a prime Lewis all he could handle in a 10 round slugfest.
This was nowhere near as big a robbery I thought it was from the last time I watched it (I watched it live as a kid and 7 years ago). The rounds Williams did well in, were very inconsistent and he took long stretches of time off in these rounds. He seemed to out jab Holmes for like 1 45 to 2 minutes and then spent the last minute standing in front of him not doing anything. His corner should have given him holy hell!
i don`t think holmes lost to witherspoon i just don`t think witherspoon did enough to beat holmes and i watched that fight over and over again now as for carl the truth williams i think he lost the last three and that`s y holmes won
i've watched this fight a dozen times over the years. I've never had Holmes winning. I've either had Williams winning 8-7, 8-6-1, or a 7-7-1 draw. After watching for the 13th time, I scored Williams 8-6-1.
Boxing was so corrupt. Two judges had it 146-139 Holmes. NO FUCKING WAY Holmes won this fight. No fucking way he won by 7 points!!!! This fight is why I stopped supporting and watching boxing. Flagrant in your face corruption
@@petersd314 Exactly. The 'reward' that Williams was given was to be ranked in all 3 organizations and be able to make money fighting other contenders. Meanwhile Holmes used his name to make millions fighting Spinks. Ironically enough, Holmes fought better against Spinks in both of those fights than he did in this one, but lost both decisions. R.I.P Carl. You deserved better.
I have scored it 7-6-2 for Holmes with the 5th and 13th round even. Williams fought well, but just not well enough to convincingly earn the heavyweight title. He got in trouble a couple of times in the later rounds and just didn't do enough offensively in those rounds. The Truth himself admitted in the post-fight interview he hadn't beaten Larry ...
I was a friend of the late Carl Williams. I watched this fight back in 1985. I watched it again today, 36 years later. Carl won the fight. How could two of the judges have Holmes win by 7 points. I can tell you that Carl was never the same after this fight. He was a very down to earth person. I miss you Carl!!!
@@paullubin5577 I guess Carl was to Holmes what Norton was to Ali. Just as Norton won the third Ali fight, but was cheated by the judges, Carl certainly won this fight but was robbed as well. All one need do is look at Holmes eye, and it's obvious who who won this bout.
@@jonnydanger7181 Oh pleeeeeze! Williams was robbed here, but no way did Cobb beat Holmes. That fight was a mismatch. I remember how Howard Cosell was so appalled that they didn't end, because Cobb was being beaten so badly, that he stopped working pro boxing matches after that bout.
@@TheEwanMC I'd argue that Williams won this fight clearer than Witherspoon. I scored the Holmes/Witherspoon fight a draw, giving the champ the benefit of the doubt. IMHO, Carl won this fight.
the last primetime boxing card televised by the big 3 networks. In the late 70s and early 80s these primetime shows were common place. Those were the days
When an unknown upstart does well against an established and heavily-favored champion, it's easy to overstate his actual level of success in a fight. I always thought that was at play in this fight. Very close, but not a robbery by any standard. The Truth was a beautiful boxer.
i have a theory: tyson was just on the cusp of the 15 round era, by coming in so hard and nasty he often caught these 15 round guys off guard, they fought in a different way at a different pace, like when he fought carl
But it's how he fought everyone so it was up to his opponent to be versatile enough to adjust to his style. Douglass did and later on holyfield, albeit differently, did it too. So it was up to the fighter to recognize the need to make the adjustment and force Tyson to respect it.
When the young lions: Witherspoon, Snipes, Williams had Holmes in trouble they never had or knew how to finish the fight, that showed their slight inexperience, like they were googly eyes.
Holmes a VERY close 8-7. He just was more aggressive throughout the bout--And pulled it out in the 15th. (I met one of the judges for this fight years later & he himself told me that he felt that Williams didn't "push" the action, but "coasted" in the latter rounds & thus scored the fight 10-5.)
This fight was 9-6 Holmes or 8-6-1 Holmes. Williams started very well but faded quickly and never really hurt Holmes. He got countered badly and didn't deserve the win, which he admitted in the post-fight interview.
yeah, Holmes was great. way underrated great. At his prime you'd have to say that nobody clearly beats him. He may well have beat both Klitschkos, young ali, young Tyson, a big Lennox Lewis, Foreman, Liston, smoking Joe, Louis. We can argue about any of those fights but we can't argue about his greatness.
I don't know that I would say that his jaw was made of glass but it was certainly suspect. Let's face it. The people that TKO'd him were some pretty hard punchers. (Tyson, Weaver, Morrison) and the others that hurt him (Ferguson, Cooper) had a good punch as well.
I agree with you about both fights. Those who were caught up in all the Pro-Duran hysteria in Montreal weren't able to see what was really happening, which was Sugar Ray out-slugging Duran in the majority of the exchanges.' This fight here, I don't know of the judges were distracted by.
Larry was probably a little past his best although fought on and off for another 15 years. Carl Williams was one of the best boxers in the division for a few years.
Watched this fight again, and still scored it 144-142 Williams. Yes, he did give some rounds away at the end that he shouldn't have. He thought he had a bigger cushion. I can see that tipping the scales toward the one judge that had it 143-142 for Holmes. But 146-139? Those two were paid off.
@@gordonmorris6359 Holmes got a few controversial split decisions until he said disparaging remarks about Marciano and lost a split decision to Spinks. Holmes was robbed.
@@gordonmorris6359 Karl looked so amateurish. Watching this fight for the umpteenth time, Karl just didn't do enough to dispell the reigning champion of his title, as did Spinks in which Holmes was robbed.
Holmes deserved to win by at least a couple of points. Note that he had Williams badly hurt in round 8, end of round 14 and again at the start of 15. But Williams never hurt Holmes. It would have been really unjust if Holmes didn't get the decision.
Yeah! I really remember that “young lions” interview! The Truth was a very insightful and articulate. I fully expected him to win a piece of the title after this fight. The Weaver debacle doomed him, and he never got a world title.
For sure, but Rocky beat every top guy in his era and retired undefeated - a feat no heavyweight champion has yet equaled. That's his greatness. As for Larry Holmes, he was the best talent and most professional and consistent champion ever. He belongs in everybody's top 5 greatest heavyweights of all time - no doubt!
Rocky, had he fought in the 80s, would have been a 220 Pound Heavyweight. Had Holmes or Williams fought in the 50s, they would have been 195 0ound Heavyweights
Holmes made a career of struggling with novice heavyweights, getting bad decisions against them, and never giving them a return fight (Weaver, Snipes, Williams, Witherspoon). The only thing Holmes was great at was thumbing.
They all get away with a low blow, thumb, whatever now & then. Boxing is a contact sport, unlike golf, sometimes when throwing a punch, it'll land the wrong way. That's the way boxing goes, have seen far more low blows versus Holmes thumbing in my lifetime. Even Foreman got away with hitting with his hand open, other got away with arm punching, wo will give a pass on Holmes for the occasional thumb. At least he had the guts to remain in his nation & fight, over 7 years as World Champion. Few has held the title that long & I know Ali never did, Holmes kicked his dead ass before Dundee threw in the towel, as always ducking a war. I seen the fight live, even a prime Ali couldn't beat Holmes.
And see when I was younger I did t understand but goi g back watch those fights some people they never ever mentioned gave our heroes so e tough times but got robbed because of the business of it
First fight I remember watching. Had no idea that it would be the last time a world heavyweight boxing title match would be show live on broadcast TV. It was boring as a kid...but we all thought Williams won. Rewatching it now, it was closer, but he still won in my opinion.
Ernie Shavers was someone. He had the highest KO percentage in heavyweight history and Holmes beat him twice. Ken Norton was someone. He was the champion in 1978 and many believe he beat Muhammad Ali twice. Jerry Cooney was someone. He knocked out Ken Norton & Ron Lyle. He was also 25-0 with 21 KO's going into the Holmes fight. Who knows how many more champs there would have been if Holmes wasn't knocking them off one by one? He also handled Ali and Joe Frazier in sparring before he turned pro.
Is this a holmes fight or a rocky documentary.. Ever hear that rocky fights was fixed.. Definition of great white hype .. Joe louis was 157 years old when rocky won...
I new Carl, he would come by my house to run .around Hempstead lake. I new back then. watching.Carl Sparing. That he would. Be a good freighter. ...TO THE CARL. WILLIAMS FAMILY. IM SORRY FOR YOUR. LOST...UNTIL WE MEET AGAIN CARL ...MAY YOU REST IN PEACE. GOD BLESS. ...
When did Carl the truth Williams died a lot of these cut boxers died that I don't even know about their a lot of good Fighters have died like Greg Page Ron Lyle Michael dokes when a good Champion dies heavyweight champion especially they should be honored don't too many people when the heavyweight champion that's not an easy task
I had the fight a draw. Williams got off to a good start, using his legs, getting off first, out jabbing Holmes and landing the bigger punches but after 6 rounds his work rate dropped off and Holmes being the crafty old champion picked it up attacking the body and coming back into it. The later rounds were difficult to score as both fighters tired, you could make a case for either guy to have won by a couple of rounds but for me no way was it an out and out robbery.
The fact that two judges gave Larry ELEVEN rounds is shameful. I've seen a lot of boxing matches and that one was scored as outrageously as any of them. Criminal.
This was barely a fight. One man just abusing an old warhorse who lacked the same talent, and couldn't do anything with his experience. Easy fight for Williams. This was the worst possible style of fighter for Holmes, or any boxer. Too much reach, and too strong of a jab. Two assets Holmes always had, but never to the same extent. I gave it to Williams 10-5. A one-sided beatdown.
IT'S NOT BECAUSE THEY LIKE CARL THE TRUTH THAT THEY WANTED HIM TO WIN THE FIGHT SO BAD.THE TRUTH IS THEY WERE SCARED THAT HOLMES BEATS THE MACINO RECORD OF 49 FIGHTS. I WAS SO HAPPY THAT HE WAN THAT FIGHT HE IS A REAL CHAMPION.
And that's why I gave you a list of skills that Larry Holmes had in his prime. Other than maybe Joe Louis, I don't know another heavyweight that was more technically sound than Holmes was but even at that being said, Holmes could change his style. He even figured out the "rope a dope" strategy later in his career that helped him beat Mercer. That takes skill. Tyson couldn't do that, Louis couldn't do that and only one other heavyweight champion could change styles like that. Muhammad Ali.
@I DON'T CARE I DON'T CARE Yes it was a condom with water and only used because the corner didn't want to look like they weren't prepared.. My only question for them would be.. who thought to bring a condom and why.
After having watched all the championships of Larry Holmes,I have several reasons to think that he was better than Ali: -he had more punch(especially the right hand and the devastating uppercut) -he was more "complete" technically(better jab,good body shots and the already mentioned uppercut) -he had better defensive skills(with arms,head and shoulders,Ali almost only used his legs) -the biggest difference was his superior stamina from the first to the last round,he never needed to stay in the ropes to breath,even in this fight when he was already washed up -look at the common opponents they had and look how he clearly beat opponents Ali difficultly beat(or stole) like Shavers,Evangelista,Spinks and Norton(at the contrary of the others 3,they met in 73 when Ali was at his best) -to finish,he respected more the fans who insulted him offering them beautiful fights even when he was washed up here against Williams but also Bey and Spinks 2,always trying to do his best,nothing in common with Ali against Young and Bugner For Ali I give advantage only for his stronger chin and arms speed.
iamtman1 Prime Ali would have never beaten Frazier and Foreman;the best Ali was in 73-74 and boxed only 6 rounds before beginning to clinch.Holmes had more punch and a better physical condition.And don't forget that when he became champion,he was already 29.
Lol not even close! Ali of 66-67 without wuestion far better than 73-74 Ali. Nobody ever would beat Ali just before his title got revoked . Chuvalo snd Patterson both fought both versions of Ali and said its not even close mid 60's Ali by far.
iamtman1 In the 70's,Ali had stronger chin,punched harder and was smarter.And anyway:to be at his best only 2 years in a carreer,is enough to be considered as the best ever?What should people say about Mayweather (I hate him) at his best for 17 years?
Ali's prime was interrupted by having his license revoked in 67 for almost 4 years that's why his prime didn't continue. The fact he comeback in the 70''s to beat Frazier, foreman etc while nowhere near as fast or skilled as before the layoff proves his greatness beyond a doubt.
This is the first time I've really watched this entire fight since I was probably 13 or 14 y.o. I used to feel sorry for Larry getting the RUNAROUND against Spinks both times but after witnessing this fight AINTNAMORE. Larry should've went into the first Spinks fight 47-1 So karma came thru in the end.
The boxing world wanted Holmes to be undefeated at 49-0 that way it would be more of a money draw, think about it how is it that he lost to Spinks and by doing so Marcianos record stays in tack. Then Spinks fights Tyson both undefeated but Spinks gets knocked out, and never ask for a rematch, but ends up retiring after his only lost.😒IJS
When master boxer meets master boxer it becomes chess match spunks can slip punches better because he was smaller man remember spinks came from light heavy
"Winning by decision is like a beauty contest "by Larry Holmes. I like the blatant racism by the medid.Larry Holmes fought mostly young boxers & beat them.Rita Marchino fought 30 no hopers & 19 old boxers.He run away from the hard punchers of his divison.He was kd by an old light heavyweight at his last fight. He was a made up hero & proteced by the Italian mafia. Larry Holmes is 1 of the greatiest hw champion of all time.He beat mostly young boxers.
Larry Holmes was a great Champion but your tirade against Marciano is silly. Marciano retired undefeated and KO’d Archie Moore in the 9th round of a scheduled 15 round fight. The heavyweights of the 1960 and’70s were the best because it was much more lucrative than football or basketball.
@Joepie De poepie I agree, there's no need for racism here. There's great boxers of many nationalities & colors. This is the year 2020, not 1920. We all live in the same World, peace is always preferred over racism.
Yeah younger boxers with less experience also.the older not old boxers were mostly hall of famers.rocky didn't fight all east fighters.both of them are two of the best ever n no one really knows how a fight between them would have went but wouldn't be easy for either one that's the truth
Rocky Marciano was either fighting older or overthehill boxers .....and yes, he was very much protected by the mafia. Holmes will always be a true champion , and what a great fighter Williams turned out to be also.
Bruce Lee is a made Up Hero n Holly Wood but Did get the word out to Mix Martial Arts But He has No Fights .Rocky that's selling Him Short and the Mafia Short .Usally When its all the Mafia they Don't let U Retire Undefeated Champion with 6 Title Defenses 49-0 at 32 Years old and yes Mafia Was involved .Think They were Involved N the 64 and 65 Ali Fights Sunny Liston Now There out The sport as Far Fury Kicked Wilders Ass No Mafia n These Big Fights and Most of Them r Jail.
Then you need to figure out what having technical ability means because Holmes had it all in his prime. The greatest jab in heavyweight history, an excellent right hand and a powerful uppercut. He was a good combination puncher, he went to the body and he had fantastic foot work. He could fight at range, toe to toe or close in. His hand speed and reflexes were also top notch. His only weakness was supposed to be his punching power but 48-0 with 34 KO's is good & he was a great technical fighter
What the hell are you talking about? Holmes went 48-0, ruled the heavyweight division for 7 1/2 years and never got knocked out. The only time he was KO'd was when he was almost 39 years old, coming into the fight with 2 years of ring rust and with no tune ups against a 22 year old prime Mike Tyson. Muhammad Ali would have been knocked out under those circumstances. Then at 42, he went the distance with Mercer and Holyfield. How many times did Mike Tyson get knocked out in his mid to late 30's?
holmes would of beat tyson when they were both in their primes.larry would of done to mike what buster douglas did to him he would ate mike up all night with his legendary jab
there was two ways to beat Holmes. Outjab him like Weatherspoon & Williams did, or time Holmes jab with a counter crushing right hand the way Tyson did
@@sihlembabe6585 he never lost the fight vs witherspoon, no way. You probably have in mind the 9th round and some body shots. Boxing is not based on one strong round. Yeah it was a close fight in every round, but how many rouds Tim has really won against Larry, honestly ? PS: i just rewatched the fight the other, with and then without the sound ( to not hear Dundee scream for everthing witherspoon did lol ). And So i repeat, Holmes won that fight vs witherspoon, there's no controversy.
In those days if you're the champion the 13th 14th 15th round were the Championship rounds. Larry Holmes won those 3 rounds that's how he retained his title in my book.
Jerry Roth was the only judge who got his right, with Holmes barely winning by a 143-142 count. The other 2 judges called it 146-139, or 11 rounds for Holmes and 4 rounds for Williams........those cards were absurd.
@@76WestSports everybody talks about frazier and i really respect the guy but honestly, why everybody considers his career so great ? exept beating Ali one time, why so many people consider him as one of the greatest, norton should have the same recognition.
@@emzid5105 Because he was one of the greatest. Unlike Ali's victories over Frazier, Frazier's victory over Ali was actually decisive. Ken Norton is on the same league, but as a fighter he is below Ali, Liston, Foreman and Frazier.
This was awesome to watch. I sincerely didn't even know who won this fight. I knew Holmes lost his first fight in the mid 80s so I thought perhaps this was it. Plus it was a great fight. Except for Williams apparently thinking he had the fight won in the late rounds.
I watched it on TV "live" Thought Williams won. Watching it again I see Wiliams give away about 4 rounds and had it 143-142 Holmes. With 4 swing rounds that I felt Carl was "The False" by giving them away.
He did give rounds away, and he should've known better. That being said, I still scored it 8-6-1 Williams. His sister says he was haunted by this fight for the rest of his career. He thought he'd won, but he knows he took some rounds off. Although 146-139 was ridiculous. 11-4? Come on.
I remember watching this fight live and feeling that Williams got robbed. In retrospect watching again today 27 years later it was a much closer fight than I had remembered. I still thought that Williams won but stylistically it made for a fight with a lot of close rounds so I could see some judges giving it to the champion by a close margin. The ridiculous part is that two of the judges had it 146-139 (11 rounds to 4 for Holmes!?) No way in hell you can tell me that Williams only won 4 rounds.
What I remember most was when they interviewed Williams after the fight and they asked him if he thought he won, he said "No"..That was sure unexpected!
This was the last of the good ole days of watching championship boxing fro free on network TV. I remember this fight. It was Larry's last victory before he finally lost to Spinks. A lot of people thought he lost this fight. I know he was wore out at the end. I was 2 months shy of 16 when I saw this fight.
Me too; I remember Williams got famous for awhile, telling people he was the 'uncrowned king.' But then we started to hear about this knockout artist from Brooklyn, who was trained by Cus D'Amato.
146-139 for Holmes? Wow, I must have been high watching this fight, because I had it Williams winning by 2 or 3 rounds... Maybe Larry was robbed against Spinks, I am yet to watch that fight, but there's no way he won against Carl Williams, and that is The Truth...
Carl Williams was actually the first man to beat Larry Holmes but didn't get the victory... And that's hard for me to say because Holmes is an all time favorite of mine...
@@Streetsmart1984 That's your opinion that Norton beat Holmes and your opinion is in a small majority I can tell you that right now... And given the fact that Larry Holmes TKO'ed both Ernie Shavers and Gerry Clooney the same two fighters that both put Kenny Norton away in one round, that there in itself let's you know that the judges gave the fight to the right guy... Larry Holmes...
Holmes was such a badass, that even after his prime year's he lasted longer than most fighters in their prime when he fought Tyson. I think if I saw the fight right, his arm got tangle on the ropes and that's when he got caught and knocked out.
ROBBERY...the judge who had it 46-39 or whatever Holmes... OMGosh!! Williams displayed the crispiest, most sublime jab in the history of boxing.. Very underrated CLASSIC. And, did ya'll notice the look on Holmes when it was over? For sure, he thought he lost that fight.
I agree. Williams should've got the decision. However, he brought it on himself by coasting through the later rounds by doing hardly any work. Just flicking out the jab, staying out of range and throwing the odd arm punch, against an aging, flat footed and out of shape Lary Holmes, who was there for taking. I suspect, the judges awarded Homles the inactive rounds because he was the one forcing the action. I'm old school; to win a world title from the champion, you should go out there and make a statement. Rip the belt from his waist. Prove to everyone you are the clear winner. Williams did great things in the earlier rounds with his footwork, extra reach, crisp jab and fast combos, but he didn't maintain it throughout the fight.
I gave Larry Holmes 11 rounds to 4, had Williams hurt bad in the 9th and 13th. Definitely won unanimously! Carl "The Truth" Williams fought a good fight but did not have the eye of the Tiger to beat the Champion! Larry Holmes not the greatest of all times but the best Heavy weight champion, 20 successful Heavy weight Title defenses and Champion for 7 years!
8-6 Holmes with one round a draw. Williams missed way too much, his punches had no power and he never capitalized on that jab of his which was very good. He did way too little after rounds 9 and 10. That's why he lost.
That's foul in my heart's of heartsand Marciano was ducting low Bob cat coming up and landed ng quick he was real dangerous Holmes would have lost and he lost this to me
Carl was more of a match for Larry on that day. He should have got the decision but we all know professional boxing is one of the most corrupt institutions there is.
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My mom always told me that my grandpa died watching a boxing match. So I did some research and found that he dies on May 20th 1985. He was watching this fight. He liked Holmes because he was Ali's sparring partner. This fight holds a special place in my heart. R.i.p Lloyd R. Kyle.
Thanks for sharing that.
died of boredom
I would rather watch Homes much more than Ali!! Why? His technique was always more consistent even though he was not quite as good overall. I think Holmes was better but didn't have as much natural talent. Holmes did have a real jab and not just a backfist. It's so full of conjecture. It's hard to make a decision on who was better. I think Carl won this fight. BTW I was a cornerman for 15 years with three world champions. We had some records also. Ali was much better before he was stripped and suspended. Yet he beat a monster of George Foreman. He then took revenge on Frazier!! They destroyed each other. Such heart Neither was ever the same.
@Jojew Yes, and respected the nation where he earned most of his cash! Don't know if Holmes served (although Norton did), however I believe had he been called, Larry Hohmes whould had serves his nation. Ali never held the title near as long as Homes, before nor after his suspension. How Ali gets the #1 slot in all time greats I'll kever know, because he dodged battle for his nation (that is again, where he made his cash & retired).
While it's tough to outright name Holmes #1, a case could be made for it, the same for Foreman & to some degree, Mike Tyson & Lennox Lewis, one of the select few who via rematch, beat every opponent he faced. Including nearly derailing the career of Kitchsko early, the refs shouldn't had stopped the fight & his eye would had been so fucked up to fight again. 60 stiches & plastic surgery needed is not enough to prove who won? All (other than Kitchsko) deserves to be in the Top 5 of modern era boxing.
Yes, Holmes best Ali's bitch ass & I love to watch that fight every month. That's Ali, when needed, he got Dundee to throw the towel in, rather than take his ass whipping like a man. There were many men & women also who didn't want to kill the enemy (some also for spitiual reasons), yet tens of thousands serves in that War alone. Ali doesn't deserve a Top 10 spot.
Jojew Holmes fought an out of condition Ali in the early stage of ill health.
NBC airing boxing. What a time to be alive.
Amen 🎯
Agreed. I remember watching this fight. And in prime time as well.
Larry Holmes was great but to me Carl Williams won this fight
I could be wrong but I believe this was the last time one of the three major networks televised a heavyweight title fight live in prime time. I miss those days.
Yes, after this the Heavyweight Championship moved off free tv which was supported solely by broadcast advertising and the site fee, if there was one. There's more of a story of what happened to bring this about and how it relates to a great deal more.
Me too
The good old days when good fights were on network television.
That's why the fighters (& promoters) gets huge contracts, PPV revenues. Still miss the good old days, watched Holmes vs Ali on national TV.
And those guys was just how was tougher than the other and so.e styles looked a lil better than others
I saw some guys giving the young Cassius Clay that work but the fighters was so no named that it's hard to fi d the footage, so when they do when 5 or 6 notable fights it make them look really great
That's what hurt boxing . No more recognition with regular non - paying cable customers .Boxing had more familiarization .A lot of boxers now are strangers because of it .
@@michaelclayton3114 Yep, by the mid 1990s it was really bad. The one that I think of most was Vinny Pazienza vs Roberto Duran, that should have been for free on network tv.
You can make a case for Holmes at 143-142 but 146-139? No damn way
EXACTLY! Lol
Holmes got a gift that night. So he really shouldn't have been mad when he lost to Michael Spinks because he really had gotten away with a couple victories he may not have really deserved
@@djhardcorproductions6132 In my opinion, Holmes was so lucky throughout his career. He really lost against Ken Norton, Tim Witherspoon and Carl Williams. Not to mention the fact that he ducked fighters like Greg page and Pinklon Thomas.
@@jacobh7188 He beat Norton and Witherspoon but he definitely lost this one.
EDIT: rescored again and had it a draw.
Larry connected more punches.
Rip Carl Williams one hell of a heavyweight,from 85-93.
Larry Holmes was a good champion,7 years at the top,underfeated as WBC champion and had one of the best jabs in the heavyweights.He was never given his respect or due,he is one of the top 5 in greatest Heavyweight champions in history.Larry Holmes is my favorite Heavyweight!
Good comment. Very insightful.
Well.. listen to the fans late in his fight with Ray Mercer. Old Larry banged away at that monster that whole fight and by the end the fans began to realize just what a legend he was. Then he took on Holyfield and looked good doing it. I think he got his respect eventually
Deontay Wilder is the greatest
Holmes is one of my favorite boxers, but on this occasion I'm forced to admit I saw the fight for his opponent. Williams consistently out-jabbed Holmes, negated his attacks, and won the majority of the rounds. Holmes certainly landed the heavier punches but not nearly enough of them. That being said I couldn't argue against anyone who saw it for either fighter - most of these rounds were so close that you could have a wide variety of scores. I might even if I watch this a year from now. Williams 144, Holmes 142.
Considering the opponent this is easily the best performance of Carl Williams' career.
Carl Williams had Tommy Morrison on the deck twice I believe??
@@danpolseno9728 Yes indeed "the Truth" dropped Morrison twice in the 6th or 7th round.
Larry Holmes was a proud, gifted, and very brave fighter. Unfortunately for him, he didn't become champion until he was almost 30 years old. This makes his accomplishments as champion even more impressive.
He was 28 when he became champion. That's not old at all.
@@tlig you don’t know anything bout boxing and it shows punk.
His style depended relatively from age.
Why was it unfortunately that he became a champion at that age or any age??? Some people go through life not accomplishing anything at any age 👈
Love Holmes but thought he lost this fight!
in the late 70s into the mid-80s is when every single weekend on one of the networks there was either a championship fight or two top contenders fighting each other
yea these were the days! Good ol days the time good fights for free
@@djhardcorproductions6132 You got that right my friend.... EVERY weekend , without fail , on free tv , great championship fights or top contenders going up against each other.....
Yes, James. I miss those days. The heavyweight championship was on the same level as the Super Bowl, World Series, and NBA Finals back then.
@David Clark He was a true warrior !
Best time for boxing, I remember those fights on Saturday afternoon at Rahway state prison with James scott
I scored the fight 143-142 for Williams, but Holmes once again proved why he is 1 of the 3 greatest heavyweights in boxing history. In his 20th title defense, the way past his prime Holmes demonstrated his incredible versatility and great heart by pounding Williams to the body in the 9th round. After the fight, Eddie Futch stated, "Ali didn't throw 100 body punches in his entire career, but Larry listened to my advice in the corner and like he always seems to do, he finds a way to win." For whatever reason, most young boxing fans place little to no importance on boxing intangibles. They get all excited about Tyson's greatest knockout wins and/or the Lewis' longevity, but give a free pass to both men getting knocked out in their primes by journeyman heavyweights and NEVER winning a fight after being knocked down or behind on points.
Agreed. You just epitomized Holmes in his entirety. All steak, no sizzle and that's why he never got his just due as a fantastic champion.
Lewis and Tyson both gas bags.
Excellent post!
You have no idea what a journeyman is if you think Douglas, Rahman or McCall come under that description. Then you come up with some illogical condition as though to justify your position with the "Didn't win a fight after being knocked down or after being behind on points" which makes no sense. That's without the fact that you're wrong with Lewis in fact winning a fight by stoppage after being behind on points against Vitali Klitschko. But to top it off, you look at how Lewis lost those fights against Rahman and McCall with the McCall fight being stopped when it shouldn't have. But you should know all about Don King trying to freeze Lewis out as he wouldn't sign up with him. Then the Rahman fight with Lewis turning up to South Africa far too late to acclimatise to the altitude where he gassed out badly and was seen with his mouth wide open from the start trying to get air into his lungs.
You however did get the right winner in this fight as Williams did in fact win but got jobbed.
@@seablock Fine...Douglas/Rahman/McCall were not true journeyman, but unlike Tyson and Lewis (e.g., twice), Holmes NEVER lost in his prime. You can make all the excuses you want about those 3 losses, but the FACT remains that Tyson and Lewis combined for 3 defeats by knockout when they were in their prime. I was surprised that Lewis was behind 56-58 on all 3 scorecards in the last fight of his career. My bad, but it doesn't change the importance of intangibles when judging the resume of a fighter.
Time and time again, a prime Larry Holmes found a way to win whereas everyone's favorite highlight reel (e.g., Mike Tyson) was knocked out in his prime by a good, but not great or even very good fighter. The same holds true for Lewis' 2 knockout losses which went a combined 7 rounds. For me, the main example of what made Holmes 1 of the 3 greatest heavyweights in boxing history was his performance against then undefeated Ray Mercer. The 42 year old Holmes dominated Mercer whereas Mercer gave a prime Lewis all he could handle in a 10 round slugfest.
I watched this fight live, and rooted for Larry Holmes all the way; but in the end I knew The Truth had won.
He lost
This was nowhere near as big a robbery I thought it was from the last time I watched it (I watched it live as a kid and 7 years ago). The rounds Williams did well in, were very inconsistent and he took long stretches of time off in these rounds. He seemed to out jab Holmes for like 1 45 to 2 minutes and then spent the last minute standing in front of him not doing anything. His corner should have given him holy hell!
47 wins, no defeats and 20 title defenses (over 7 years). Unmatched!
Ellis Marcelle He lost to Witherspoon and Williams.
+John Jamele
It was close, but he lost. 8-6-1 even giving the champ the benefit of the doubt. If it was a fight with 2 non-title guys, Carl wins 10-5.
Sam Walker this is win boxing was at its best wide world of sports
i don`t think holmes lost to witherspoon i just don`t think witherspoon did enough to beat holmes and i watched that fight over and over again now as for carl the truth williams i think he lost the last three and that`s y holmes won
You had Holmes winning the 13th?
RIP Carl Williams :-(
We
i've watched this fight a dozen times over the years. I've never had Holmes winning. I've either had Williams winning 8-7, 8-6-1, or a 7-7-1 draw. After watching for the 13th time, I scored Williams 8-6-1.
Me too and Holmes knew, they like what style looked the best and if you could fight you was a hero
Williams edged him 100 percent
Boxing was so corrupt. Two judges had it 146-139 Holmes. NO FUCKING WAY Holmes won this fight. No fucking way he won by 7 points!!!! This fight is why I stopped supporting and watching boxing. Flagrant in your face corruption
@@petersd314 Exactly. The 'reward' that Williams was given was to be ranked in all 3 organizations and be able to make money fighting other contenders. Meanwhile Holmes used his name to make millions fighting Spinks. Ironically enough, Holmes fought better against Spinks in both of those fights than he did in this one, but lost both decisions.
R.I.P Carl. You deserved better.
I have scored it 7-6-2 for Holmes with the 5th and 13th round even. Williams fought well, but just not well enough to convincingly earn the heavyweight title. He got in trouble a couple of times in the later rounds and just didn't do enough offensively in those rounds. The Truth himself admitted in the post-fight interview he hadn't beaten Larry ...
Carl the truth Williams, won that fight ,he should have been champion.
So did Tex Cobb he really whipped Larry.
True. This was Holmes version of Ali-Norton 3.
I was a friend of the late Carl Williams. I watched this fight back in 1985. I watched it again today, 36 years later. Carl won the fight. How could two of the judges have Holmes win by 7 points. I can tell you that Carl was never the same after this fight. He was a very down to earth person. I miss you Carl!!!
@@paullubin5577 I guess Carl was to Holmes what Norton was to Ali. Just as Norton won the third Ali fight, but was cheated by the judges, Carl certainly won this fight but was robbed as well. All one need do is look at Holmes eye, and it's obvious who who won this bout.
@@jonnydanger7181 Oh pleeeeeze! Williams was robbed here, but no way did Cobb beat Holmes. That fight was a mismatch. I remember how Howard Cosell was so appalled that they didn't end, because Cobb was being beaten so badly, that he stopped working pro boxing matches after that bout.
Williams was a hell of a fighter r.i.p
That decision was BULL!!!!!
steven sandman Which was what I thought in 1985.
I‘m a Holmes fan, but I think Holmes lost this fight.
Same with me. And 146-139 for Larry? That's way beyond being a joke...
The Witherspoon fight was also one you could argue he may not have won and he was hurt badly in that fight too.
@@TheEwanMC I'd argue that Williams won this fight clearer than Witherspoon. I scored the Holmes/Witherspoon fight a draw, giving the champ the benefit of the doubt. IMHO, Carl won this fight.
Larry did lost that fight and it hurts me to realize that as well...
I have it 143-142 for Larry but it was exceptionally close. Carl shouldn’t have taken his foot off the pedal after the first few rounds.
Yeah, this should have been a wake up call to Holmes that it was all over. He lost that fight.
I knew he was going to have problems with Michael Spinks after watching this fight in 1985.
@@robross8935 I wonder if the Spinks decision was payback for Holmes getting a gift in this fight.
@@JasonMarshMusic I thought Holmes won this fight.
I respectfully disagree. I thought Holmes pulled it out in the championship rounds.
3bdhcn dbugvyrg rb gvhd h the disease and
I loved Holmes but he lost this fight
This was the golden era of boxing . Great fights on broadcast TV every other weekend .
the last primetime boxing card televised by the big 3 networks. In the late 70s and early 80s these primetime shows were common place. Those were the days
+Mark Phelps
Because it got obvious that the fights were fixed, unless you knocked the Don King fighter out.
Mark Phelps yeah those were the days!!!!
It was beautiful back then!
Indeed,they were.
Mark Phelps yeah an the 15 rounds ended too
Holmes fought Shavers twice.
There should be a special award just for that.....Shavers was terrifying.
This fight was riveting and Larry was tested to the limit
When an unknown upstart does well against an established and heavily-favored champion, it's easy to overstate his actual level of success in a fight. I always thought that was at play in this fight. Very close, but not a robbery by any standard. The Truth was a beautiful boxer.
i have a theory: tyson was just on the cusp of the 15 round era, by coming in so hard and nasty he often caught these 15 round guys off guard, they fought in a different way at a different pace, like when he fought carl
That's a great observation
Very interesting observation.
But it's how he fought everyone so it was up to his opponent to be versatile enough to adjust to his style. Douglass did and later on holyfield, albeit differently, did it too. So it was up to the fighter to recognize the need to make the adjustment and force Tyson to respect it.
Carl Williams had excellent boxing skills for a big man
When the young lions: Witherspoon, Snipes, Williams had Holmes in trouble they never had or knew how to finish the fight, that showed their slight inexperience, like they were googly eyes.
I thought Williams won but Holmes, the older fighter, won the last three rounds, and Holmes looked more tired than Williams. Holmes got heart!
Holmes a VERY close 8-7. He just was more aggressive throughout the bout--And pulled it out in the 15th. (I met one of the judges for this fight years later & he himself told me that he felt that Williams didn't "push" the action, but "coasted" in the latter rounds & thus scored the fight 10-5.)
This fight was 9-6 Holmes or 8-6-1 Holmes. Williams started very well but faded quickly and never really hurt Holmes. He got countered badly and didn't deserve the win, which he admitted in the post-fight interview.
yeah, Holmes was great. way underrated great. At his prime you'd have to say that nobody clearly beats him. He may well have beat both Klitschkos, young ali, young Tyson, a big Lennox Lewis, Foreman, Liston, smoking Joe, Louis. We can argue about any of those fights but we can't argue about his greatness.
idiots booing during the 15th round lull would be more gassed after 1 minute of boxing
+Ian Germaine
They were probably booing because they knew Carl had to knock him out to win and he wouldn't/couldn't.
As is the case when trying to take the title from a long reigning champion.
unless you're sugar ray leonard, in which case you'll be gifted the decision
I'm sorry but ur the best Larry but u got beat tonight
I scored the fight in favor of Williams 9 rounds to 6
Williams could have truly been something if his jaw wasn't made of glass. Shame.
+TheCerealGuy8
True that. He had all the skills, except for the damn left hook....which in this fight didn't come into play
I don't know that I would say that his jaw was made of glass but it was certainly suspect. Let's face it. The people that TKO'd him were some pretty hard punchers. (Tyson, Weaver, Morrison) and the others that hurt him (Ferguson, Cooper) had a good punch as well.
TheCerealGuy8 If any heavyweight land a good punch on any heavyweight it's lights out
I agree with you about both fights. Those who were caught up in all the Pro-Duran hysteria in Montreal weren't able to see what was really happening, which was Sugar Ray out-slugging Duran in the majority of the exchanges.' This fight here, I don't know of the judges were distracted by.
He had a bad habit of dropping his right hand
Larry was probably a little past his best although fought on and off for another 15 years. Carl Williams was one of the best boxers in the division for a few years.
Watched this fight again, and still scored it 144-142 Williams. Yes, he did give some rounds away at the end that he shouldn't have. He thought he had a bigger cushion. I can see that tipping the scales toward the one judge that had it 143-142 for Holmes. But 146-139? Those two were paid off.
Mills Lane is a legend
I thought Carl was robbed at the time, and watching again all these years later I still think he was robbed.
@@gordonmorris6359 Holmes got a few controversial split decisions until he said disparaging remarks about Marciano and lost a split decision to Spinks. Holmes was robbed.
@@gordonmorris6359 Karl looked so amateurish. Watching this fight for the umpteenth time, Karl just didn't do enough to dispell the reigning champion of his title, as did Spinks in which Holmes was robbed.
Wow! What great version of the national Anthem by JOSE FELICIANO
Holmes deserved to win by at least a couple of points. Note that he had Williams badly hurt in round 8, end of round 14 and again at the start of 15. But Williams never hurt Holmes. It would have been really unjust if Holmes didn't get the decision.
Jerry Roth's scorecard is the most realistic one IMO
7:54 that was a great interview. The Truth had charisma
Yeah! I really remember that “young lions” interview! The Truth was a very insightful and articulate. I fully expected him to win a piece of the title after this fight. The Weaver debacle doomed him, and he never got a world title.
Holmes would have beat the breaks off Marciano.
For sure, but Rocky beat every top guy in his era and retired undefeated - a feat no heavyweight champion has yet equaled. That's his greatness. As for Larry Holmes, he was the best talent and most professional and consistent champion ever. He belongs in everybody's top 5 greatest heavyweights of all time - no doubt!
dont be so sure rocky was a tough hard hitting never give up true fighter and larry could be hit by right hands rockys best punch
@@gabbyjay68 Rocky would get lit up bad
@@pearcemark2 people thought foreman would light up Ali too , point is you don't really know
Rocky, had he fought in the 80s, would have been a 220 Pound Heavyweight. Had Holmes or Williams fought in the 50s, they would have been 195 0ound Heavyweights
The Champ was working OT here to keep his career going, Carl Williams was a talented dude.. tough fight
please don't stop with the larry holmes full version! good job on the upload
Holmes made a career of struggling with novice heavyweights, getting bad decisions against them, and never giving them a return fight (Weaver, Snipes, Williams, Witherspoon).
The only thing Holmes was great at was thumbing.
They all get away with a low blow, thumb, whatever now & then. Boxing is a contact sport, unlike golf, sometimes when throwing a punch, it'll land the wrong way. That's the way boxing goes, have seen far more low blows versus Holmes thumbing in my lifetime. Even Foreman got away with hitting with his hand open, other got away with arm punching, wo will give a pass on Holmes for the occasional thumb. At least he had the guts to remain in his nation & fight, over 7 years as World Champion. Few has held the title that long & I know Ali never did, Holmes kicked his dead ass before Dundee threw in the towel, as always ducking a war. I seen the fight live, even a prime Ali couldn't beat Holmes.
LMAO...makes a career...four fights out of 48 wins to this point. Genius.
Actually he fought Mike Weaver twice technically he fought Mike Weaver twice the old man when he fought Mike Weaver again
Thought Carl won back in '85 when I watched it and still think Carl won.
He Did
And see when I was younger I did t understand but goi g back watch those fights some people they never ever mentioned gave our heroes so e tough times but got robbed because of the business of it
First fight I remember watching. Had no idea that it would be the last time a world heavyweight boxing title match would be show live on broadcast TV. It was boring as a kid...but we all thought Williams won. Rewatching it now, it was closer, but he still won in my opinion.
I didn't know that was the end of heavyweight prime time championship boxing on tv too.
They actually had a couple of Tyson fights on network when he came back from prison. For instance, I know the Buster Mathis Jr fight was on Fox.
@@philchroniger7839 Right...but that wasn't a heavyweight title fight. This was the last live heavyweight title fight on network TV.
@@manuginobilisbaldspot424 gotcha
@@philchroniger7839 they had a few fights on national tv after this, the Pete McNeely/Tyson fight is one I remember.
Beginning of the end for Holmes. One of the greatest though.
Ernie Shavers was someone. He had the highest KO percentage in heavyweight history and Holmes beat him twice. Ken Norton was someone. He was the champion in 1978 and many believe he beat Muhammad Ali twice. Jerry Cooney was someone. He knocked out Ken Norton & Ron Lyle. He was also 25-0 with 21 KO's going into the Holmes fight. Who knows how many more champs there would have been if Holmes wasn't knocking them off one by one? He also handled Ali and Joe Frazier in sparring before he turned pro.
Yes I remember this fight well. Holmes was a great champion but I thought Williams won also. This was a great fight start to finish.
Is this a holmes fight or a rocky documentary.. Ever hear that rocky fights was fixed.. Definition of great white hype .. Joe louis was 157 years old when rocky won...
Carl Williams won this.
I new Carl, he would come by my house to run .around Hempstead lake. I new back then. watching.Carl Sparing. That he would. Be a good freighter. ...TO THE CARL. WILLIAMS FAMILY. IM SORRY FOR YOUR. LOST...UNTIL WE MEET AGAIN CARL ...MAY YOU REST IN PEACE. GOD BLESS. ...
16161645 That's right I forgot he passed. Such a shame RIP! Had to be cool knowing him bro sorry...
When did Carl the truth Williams died a lot of these cut boxers died that I don't even know about their a lot of good Fighters have died like Greg Page Ron Lyle Michael dokes when a good Champion dies heavyweight champion especially they should be honored don't too many people when the heavyweight champion that's not an easy task
What did Carl the truth Williams die from
I had the fight a draw. Williams got off to a good start, using his legs, getting off first, out jabbing Holmes and landing the bigger punches but after 6 rounds his work rate dropped off and Holmes being the crafty old champion picked it up attacking the body and coming back into it. The later rounds were difficult to score as both fighters tired, you could make a case for either guy to have won by a couple of rounds but for me no way was it an out and out robbery.
I gave that a draw, maybe Holmes just edging it, but 146/139 from 2 judges, no
Don't you just love Nevada.
The fact that two judges gave Larry ELEVEN rounds is shameful. I've seen a lot of boxing matches and that one was scored as outrageously as any of them. Criminal.
Larry carried the last 5 rounds. Game over.
The truth got screwed he won the fight and we know it
Spot on. Holmes had enough all round ability to be considered great. Punch, chin, stamina and most of all heart. Larry had it all.
yeah larry had all that did nothin great but survive
This was barely a fight. One man just abusing an old warhorse who lacked the same talent, and couldn't do anything with his experience.
Easy fight for Williams. This was the worst possible style of fighter for Holmes, or any boxer. Too much reach, and too strong of a jab. Two assets Holmes always had, but never to the same extent.
I gave it to Williams 10-5. A one-sided beatdown.
LMFAO!!
TA152H01 well Mike Tyson never had any problem with Carl the truth Willian's
IT'S NOT BECAUSE THEY LIKE CARL THE TRUTH THAT THEY WANTED HIM TO WIN THE FIGHT SO BAD.THE TRUTH IS THEY WERE SCARED THAT HOLMES BEATS THE MACINO RECORD OF 49 FIGHTS. I WAS SO HAPPY THAT HE WAN THAT FIGHT HE IS A REAL CHAMPION.
And that's why I gave you a list of skills that Larry Holmes had in his prime. Other than maybe Joe Louis, I don't know another heavyweight that was more technically sound than Holmes was but even at that being said, Holmes could change his style. He even figured out the "rope a dope" strategy later in his career that helped him beat Mercer. That takes skill. Tyson couldn't do that, Louis couldn't do that and only one other heavyweight champion could change styles like that. Muhammad Ali.
Holmes eye was closed and the lack of an Enswell iron in the corner reminds me of Tyson vs Buster Douglas.
The wait till after the fight to apply it smh
@I DON'T CARE I DON'T CARE Yes it was a condom with water and only used because the corner didn't want to look like they weren't prepared.. My only question for them would be.. who thought to bring a condom and why.
Williams definitely won that fight! What a RIP-OFF!
After having watched all the championships of Larry Holmes,I have several reasons to think that he was better than Ali:
-he had more punch(especially the right hand and the devastating uppercut)
-he was more "complete" technically(better jab,good body shots and the already mentioned uppercut)
-he had better defensive skills(with arms,head and shoulders,Ali almost only used his legs)
-the biggest difference was his superior stamina from the first to the last round,he never needed to stay in the ropes to breath,even in this fight when he was already washed up
-look at the common opponents they had and look how he clearly beat opponents Ali difficultly beat(or stole) like Shavers,Evangelista,Spinks and Norton(at the contrary of the others 3,they met in 73 when Ali was at his best)
-to finish,he respected more the fans who insulted him offering them beautiful fights even when he was washed up here against Williams but also Bey and Spinks 2,always trying to do his best,nothing in common with Ali against Young and Bugner
For Ali I give advantage only for his stronger chin and arms speed.
+Frédéric Avalli Prime Ali 65-67 beats any version of Holmes.
iamtman1 Prime Ali would have never beaten Frazier and Foreman;the best Ali was in 73-74 and boxed only 6 rounds before beginning to clinch.Holmes had more punch and a better physical condition.And don't forget that when he became champion,he was already 29.
Lol not even close! Ali of 66-67 without wuestion far better than 73-74 Ali. Nobody ever would beat Ali just before his title got revoked . Chuvalo snd Patterson both fought both versions of Ali and said its not even close mid 60's Ali by far.
iamtman1 In the 70's,Ali had stronger chin,punched harder and was smarter.And anyway:to be at his best only 2 years in a carreer,is enough to be considered as the best ever?What should people say about Mayweather (I hate him) at his best for 17 years?
Ali's prime was interrupted by having his license revoked in 67 for almost 4 years that's why his prime didn't continue. The fact he comeback in the 70''s to beat Frazier, foreman etc while nowhere near as fast or skilled as before the layoff proves his greatness beyond a doubt.
Carl did more to Holmes, did Spinks did 🤔
Yes. Williams did more to Holmes than in Spinks did in Holmes-M_Spinks II.
@@aj7utu holmes spinks 2 was a robbery
Larry got robbed in M.Spinks II but got a bit lucky in this and Witherspoon fights despite being so close...
This is the first time I've really watched this entire fight since I was probably 13 or 14 y.o. I used to feel sorry for Larry getting the RUNAROUND against Spinks both times but after witnessing this fight AINTNAMORE. Larry should've went into the first Spinks fight 47-1 So karma came thru in the end.
It's not Larry's fault who the judges voted for fella !!!!!!
To be fair, Larry didn't get the runaround in the first Spinks fight. Now the second, different story...
The boxing world wanted Holmes to be undefeated at 49-0 that way it would be more of a money draw, think about it how is it that he lost to Spinks and by doing so Marcianos record stays in tack. Then Spinks fights Tyson both undefeated but Spinks gets knocked out, and never ask for a rematch, but ends up retiring after his only lost.😒IJS
When master boxer meets master boxer it becomes chess match spunks can slip punches better because he was smaller man remember spinks came from light heavy
Golden glove champ williams
"Winning by decision is like a beauty contest "by Larry Holmes.
I like the blatant racism by the medid.Larry Holmes fought mostly young boxers & beat them.Rita Marchino fought 30 no hopers & 19 old boxers.He run away from the hard punchers of his divison.He was kd by an old light heavyweight at his last fight.
He was a made up hero & proteced by the Italian mafia.
Larry Holmes is 1 of the greatiest hw champion of all time.He beat mostly young boxers.
Larry Holmes was a great Champion but your tirade against Marciano is silly. Marciano retired undefeated and KO’d Archie Moore in the 9th round of a scheduled 15 round fight. The heavyweights of the 1960 and’70s were the best because it was much more lucrative than football or basketball.
@Joepie De poepie I agree, there's no need for racism here. There's great boxers of many nationalities & colors. This is the year 2020, not 1920. We all live in the same World, peace is always preferred over racism.
Yeah younger boxers with less experience also.the older not old boxers were mostly hall of famers.rocky didn't fight all east fighters.both of them are two of the best ever n no one really knows how a fight between them would have went but wouldn't be easy for either one that's the truth
Rocky Marciano was either fighting older or overthehill boxers .....and yes, he was very much protected by the mafia. Holmes will always be a true champion , and what a great fighter Williams turned out to be also.
Bruce Lee is a made Up Hero n Holly Wood but Did get the word out to Mix Martial Arts But He has No Fights .Rocky that's selling Him Short and the Mafia Short .Usally When its all the Mafia they Don't let U Retire Undefeated Champion with 6 Title Defenses 49-0 at 32 Years old and yes Mafia Was involved .Think They were Involved N the 64 and 65 Ali Fights Sunny Liston Now There out The sport as Far Fury Kicked Wilders Ass No Mafia n These Big Fights and Most of Them r Jail.
Then you need to figure out what having technical ability means because Holmes had it all in his prime. The greatest jab in heavyweight history, an excellent right hand and a powerful uppercut. He was a good combination puncher, he went to the body and he had fantastic foot work. He could fight at range, toe to toe or close in. His hand speed and reflexes were also top notch. His only weakness was supposed to be his punching power but 48-0 with 34 KO's is good & he was a great technical fighter
The Truth always prevails... RIP
Seeing this again, I definitely felt the truth won.
..... I remember watching this fight cheering on Carl but as the corrupt promoters and Judges would have it Greed won the day ....
definitely
What the hell are you talking about? Holmes went 48-0, ruled the heavyweight division for 7 1/2 years and never got knocked out. The only time he was KO'd was when he was almost 39 years old, coming into the fight with 2 years of ring rust and with no tune ups against a 22 year old prime Mike Tyson. Muhammad Ali would have been knocked out under those circumstances. Then at 42, he went the distance with Mercer and Holyfield. How many times did Mike Tyson get knocked out in his mid to late 30's?
holmes would of beat tyson when they were both in their primes.larry would of done to mike what buster douglas did to him he would ate mike up all night with his legendary jab
Never appreciated Larry Holmes til many years later. In my opinion, he was a great fighter and a hell of a Champion.
LOL! At the end of round 12 they showed a replay of when Holmes supposedly thumbed Williams in his left eye with a left jab. What a crock!
The punch slide across his eye. No thumb
there was two ways to beat Holmes. Outjab him like Weatherspoon & Williams did, or time Holmes jab with a counter crushing right hand the way Tyson did
Macheal Naylor Tyson was a beast n2 he switched his team and married Robbin Givens
Day light robbery larry lost these fight
@@sihlembabe6585 he never lost the fight vs witherspoon, no way. You probably have in mind the 9th round and some body shots. Boxing is not based on one strong round. Yeah it was a close fight in every round, but how many rouds Tim has really won against Larry, honestly ? PS: i just rewatched the fight the other, with and then without the sound ( to not hear Dundee scream for everthing witherspoon did lol ). And So i repeat, Holmes won that fight vs witherspoon, there's no controversy.
Tyson would not have been able to beat the prime Larry Holmes
In those days if you're the champion the 13th 14th 15th round were the Championship rounds. Larry Holmes won those 3 rounds that's how he retained his title in my book.
Jerry Roth was the only judge who got his right, with Holmes barely winning by a 143-142 count. The other 2 judges called it 146-139, or 11 rounds for Holmes and 4 rounds for Williams........those cards were absurd.
R.I.P Carl the truth..tough night for larry
Has Carl Williams passed ?
What a robbery that was
I met Larry Holmes recently and he's very nice
Yes Williams should have taken the title. Met him on the 5 train in the Bronx around 2005.
I remember watching this, and Holmes won the late rounds.
But not the fight
@@deacontheseer4804 Holmes won the fight in my eyes.
Not the fight
I think Holmes had the career Ali would have without the exile in terms of record
Possibly with the exception of Frazier I
@@76WestSports everybody talks about frazier and i really respect the guy but honestly, why everybody considers his career so great ? exept beating Ali one time, why so many people consider him as one of the greatest, norton should have the same recognition.
@@emzid5105 Because he was one of the greatest. Unlike Ali's victories over Frazier, Frazier's victory over Ali was actually decisive. Ken Norton is on the same league, but as a fighter he is below Ali, Liston, Foreman and Frazier.
Good old days man
This was awesome to watch. I sincerely didn't even know who won this fight. I knew Holmes lost his first fight in the mid 80s so I thought perhaps this was it. Plus it was a great fight. Except for Williams apparently thinking he had the fight won in the late rounds.
I watched it on TV "live" Thought Williams won. Watching it again I see Wiliams give away about 4 rounds and had it 143-142 Holmes. With 4 swing rounds that I felt Carl was "The False" by giving them away.
+Randall Holmes I think he coasted for 3 rounds, and that cost him the fight!
9-5-1, Williams.
He did give rounds away, and he should've known better. That being said, I still scored it 8-6-1 Williams. His sister says he was haunted by this fight for the rest of his career. He thought he'd won, but he knows he took some rounds off. Although 146-139 was ridiculous. 11-4? Come on.
Williams gave away a few rounds but still did enough to mess up Holmes physicaly and clearly beat Holmes ...
I remember watching this fight live and feeling that Williams got robbed. In retrospect watching again today 27 years later it was a much closer fight than I had remembered. I still thought that Williams won but stylistically it made for a fight with a lot of close rounds so I could see some judges giving it to the champion by a close margin. The ridiculous part is that two of the judges had it 146-139 (11 rounds to 4 for Holmes!?) No way in hell you can tell me that Williams only won 4 rounds.
What I remember most was when they interviewed Williams after the fight and they asked him if he thought he won, he said "No"..That was sure unexpected!
I scored it 8 rounds to 7 for Williams.
COMMENTATORS:
(NBC) MARV ALBERT & DR. FERDIE PACHECO
(ITV) REG GUTTERIDGE
(MBS) FREDDIE ABANDO
TV NETWORK:
NBC / ITV / MBS-4 (NOW PTV-4)
DATE:
20 MAY 1985
This was the last of the good ole days of watching championship boxing fro free on network TV. I remember this fight. It was Larry's last victory before he finally lost to Spinks. A lot of people thought he lost this fight. I know he was wore out at the end. I was 2 months shy of 16 when I saw this fight.
Me too; I remember Williams got famous for awhile, telling people he was the 'uncrowned king.' But then we started to hear about this knockout artist from Brooklyn, who was trained by Cus D'Amato.
146-139 for Holmes? Wow, I must have been high watching this fight, because I had it Williams winning by 2 or 3 rounds...
Maybe Larry was robbed against Spinks, I am yet to watch that fight, but there's no way he won against Carl Williams, and that is The Truth...
Carl Williams was actually the first man to beat Larry Holmes but didn't get the victory...
And that's hard for me to say because Holmes is an all time favorite of mine...
Same here.
Wrong; ken Norton beat Holmes first … t
@@Streetsmart1984
That's your opinion that Norton beat Holmes and your opinion is in a small majority I can tell you that right now...
And given the fact that Larry Holmes TKO'ed both Ernie Shavers and Gerry Clooney the same two fighters that both put Kenny Norton away in one round, that there in itself let's you know that the judges gave the fight to the right guy...
Larry Holmes...
Holmes was such a badass, that even after his prime year's he lasted longer than most fighters in their prime when he fought Tyson. I think if I saw the fight right, his arm got tangle on the ropes and that's when he got caught and knocked out.
The young fighters didn't know how to finish against Holmes.
@@aarondigby9859 Semi True, but Holmes was just BadAss. Young or old.
That was a great performance of the National Anthem.
ROBBERY...the judge who had it 46-39 or whatever Holmes... OMGosh!! Williams displayed the crispiest, most sublime jab in the history of boxing.. Very underrated CLASSIC. And, did ya'll notice the look on Holmes when it was over? For sure, he thought he lost that fight.
i've heard Holmes saying that williams was by far his toughest fight during his reign.
I agree. Williams should've got the decision. However, he brought it on himself by coasting through the later rounds by doing hardly any work. Just flicking out the jab, staying out of range and throwing the odd arm punch, against an aging, flat footed and out of shape Lary Holmes, who was there for taking. I suspect, the judges awarded Homles the inactive rounds because he was the one forcing the action. I'm old school; to win a world title from the champion, you should go out there and make a statement. Rip the belt from his waist. Prove to everyone you are the clear winner. Williams did great things in the earlier rounds with his footwork, extra reach, crisp jab and fast combos, but he didn't maintain it throughout the fight.
I gave Larry Holmes 11 rounds to 4, had Williams hurt bad in the 9th and 13th. Definitely won unanimously! Carl "The Truth" Williams fought a good fight but did not have the eye of the Tiger to beat the Champion! Larry Holmes not the greatest of all times but the best Heavy weight champion, 20 successful Heavy weight Title defenses and Champion for 7 years!
What a disgraceful decision, Williams won hands down, out-jabbed Holmes, and look at how he messed up Holmes face.
RIP Carl Williams
Holmes was not a show man he was classy. A Real Professional, a Winner, true dominant champion
8-6 Holmes with one round a draw. Williams missed way too much, his punches had no power and he never capitalized on that jab of his which was very good. He did way too little after rounds 9 and 10. That's why he lost.
That's foul in my heart's of heartsand Marciano was ducting low Bob cat coming up and landed ng quick he was real dangerous Holmes would have lost and he lost this to me
Carl was more of a match for Larry on that day. He should have got the decision but we all know professional boxing is one of the most corrupt institutions there is.
I agree
They got it wrong predicting the younger, inexperienced fighter would be fresher in the championship rounds. I don't think Williams did enough.