Couldn’t agree more! So nice when it’s crisp and clean sounding! Especially when your trying to learn something! It’s like in college when you had someone with a heavy accent…trying to teach you English
Caller: Im not scared money Hand History: Scared to 3bet pre, scared of the nit button on the flop, scared to lead the turn and check raise the maniacs bet. Scared the maniac has a Q or 9 on the river. 🙄🙄🙄
Don't necessarily disagree on earlier streets, but on the river it comes down to his much you trust your own read that he's extremely deviant. I think Bart's advice was fine. Also, if this is a normal non-atrocious maniac who will barrel off but fold to aggression, XC a made flush isn't bad.
@@PhilipJReed-db3zc you can’t have it both ways. If we’re check-calling the turn it’s because we’re saying this guy is such a maniac that his range is mostly air and he’ll continue barrelling on the river (even though that means he’s betting into 4 people when the top cards pairs AND a flush comes in). If that’s the case we have to call the river. If on the other hand you get to the river and go “oh well he must have a queen, I fold” then you should have raised the turn, because no maniac is ever folding trip queens to a single raise.
There is a subspecies of player who psychologically lives for moments like these where he can show the big bluff, and he doesn't mind how much it costs him in the long run. They definitely exist.
This caller admitted he was scared preflop, and the rest of the hand did not disappoint. - Scared the maniac with a super wide range might boot the pot with weak holdings, so he won’t three bet a good hand and risk a large pot. - Scared the nit with a small range only has monsters and therefore won’t play a pot. - Assumes the guy with the wide range will blast with weak holdings, gets the bet, gets the fold from the scary nit, DECIDES NOW HES SCARED BY MANIAC GUY AND CALLS but also justifies that manic guy will bet out the River and give him his value anyway - Legitimate scare card comes on River, maniac blasts as expected… and now it scares hero. And for that reason, I’m out.
Not only that, I love it when they'll label me something. Once they label you, they're always going to be at a disadvantage. I never underestimate players because no matter how habitual they may play, they can always change it up at the least suspecting time. The fallacy is to think oneself as smart and observing and everyone else as just ants. Everyone out there is smarter than you may think. I always stay humble.
I would've definitely bet on making the nut flush. what in the world are you going to bet if you dont bet that? Unless you wanted to trap. It's a call, a call in Kentucky, or China, especially given the player type..and you know this man
If he is going to play post flop like this, the caller would be better off folding A-10s before the flop. If he isn't comfortable with a flush on a paired board and needs an even better hand that that, it just isn't going to happen often enough to justify the preflop call.
If villain is prone to bet this hand (and most any other hand) in this fashion, check calling is best. I am always amazed that guys like this never seem to learn. It does not take people long to adjust and let them bluff off their entire stack. If they run good, you can fry, but overall, they are probably the biggest source of profit except maybe the truly awful folks who are very passive and call way too wide.
He dug his own hole on this one. Semi bluff on the flop to make the pot bigger. Shove on the turn. If you lose to a Fullhouse, you lose to a fullhouse. It's just a cooler. Playing scared when you have the nut flush is just playing tooo tight and passive.
I don't think I like semi-bluffing on the flop because the button should have something pretty strong there. I think you really just need to lead small on turn.The stack depth makes most check raises awkward (and as mentioned a lot of times that checks through anyway) so that leaves jamming but there aren't enough lower flushes left with the AQT9 all accounted for (in retrospect someone that opens 74o may very well open K2s but in general even if I think my opponent is wide I won't won't put anything under K7s into their MP range with any confidence). Counting reasonable combos I feel like they have 7ish lower flushes (assuming those all call a check jam) and 8 boats + quads.
Ewww what awful advice. Hero should be 3 betting pre but check raising this flop as played is a bad idea imo. He should definitely be raising the turn as played though.
Another story beggining with "I let him bluff" and ending with "so i fold the best hand" Jesus, people don't learn xD if your plan is let the maniac bluff, you MUST CALL If you will fold in the river, don't let him bluff and raise the turn. Stop making "traps" to fold!
Yeah. This guy will fold 10 full stacks of chips away to the maniac before finally having the stone cold nuts on the river and stacking the maniac at which point he’ll pay himself on the back for his clever slow playing.
Does Bart understand the term "maniac"? I don't think he does. He's like "Oh gosh I dunno does he have the queen, doesn't he...." HE's A MANIAC. He could have 72 a random 4, 88s, A 3,etc. This is a SLAM DUNK call. If hero folded here he should be banned from Poker halls for a year to think over his grievous sins.
There is a poker room in Kentucky now. I moved to Tennessee from Jersey and a poker room in London, Kentucky, is the closest place for me to play. It's called The Royal Social Club. It opened last summer. I haven't gone yet because I plan on playing in the 3k Guaranteed they have on Saturdays and there has been terrible weather every Saturday for the last 2 months. They have a 20k Guaranteed every 3rd Saturday of the month that I plan on playing in too.
The button was the person you were most worried about and when he folded on the turn, that opens the door to raise the maniac. I paused it, so I don’t yet know what you did. But when I hit “play” again, I’m hoping that’s what you did.
It’s plays like 3 monotone boards, betting the flush draw in with air and bluffing when it misses, that make more sense now that I’ve gotten into PLO much more
the guy's cbet with 74 is quite off. but had i done that on the flop, why not keep betting on the turn and river? he just turn bottom pair into bluff which sounds reasonable to me
@@ligafftheindifferent3495 oh, dont get me wrong, i think just betting the flop is burning money. Yet, if u gonna start it in such spot, might as well go 3st
I need to move to Louisville for, uh... uh... work! Yeah, packing up and leaving my family behind, it sucks. But btw, can you get me a seat at this game? XD
I'm very new to taking poker seriously, but I don't know how he didn't lead on any street. Even if you have the tight player behind it would make more sense to bet to see if he really is strong.
The logic in this hand makes no sense. Pre-flop - if we are against the maniac we should pretty much be always 3-betting AT suited because we have a strong range advantage. If we're against just the nit, we should not be 3-betting because when we get called we're usually behind or flipping. If we're against a raise from the maniac and a call from the nit, we should be squeezing because the nit capped their range and will likely fold all the hands that both flat and beat AT. So no reason to not squeeze AT suited in this spot at all. On the flop when the maniac bets and the button calls - why would we assume the nit is slow playing a set? It's a very dynamic board. Not saying some nitty players don't also slow play, but that would be a pretty glaring leak - especially with a trigger happy maniac in the hand. The button is very often going to have Qx, 9x, a pocket pair like JJ, TT, 88, or a draw. When the turn pairs the Q, why not lead?? There are so so so many times we get called by worse. Plus it makes us look like WE have a Queen, so maybe the maniac will try to rep a flush and bluff. And if we are checking: we have to be check raising the maniac. That's the kind of spot that we wait hours for. On the river we have a straight non-linear logic issue. In the hero's mind, the maniac could be "firing off with anything", he says it and sights an example on the turn. He then says that the maniac could not be firing off with a flush on the river. WHY NOT? One of those statements has to be wrong. And since the hand was played under the assumption that the maniac over values middling hands, I would absolutely assume the maniac can have a flush on the river.
Counter point: If the Villian is super wide preflop and bluff heavy post, do you really want to bloat the pot preflop out of position, knowing he will likely call a raise preflop. What do you do when you brick the flop 70% of the time. With your logic, you will not bet a board that is not favorable to your range and fold to a bet. If you do bet an unfavorable board, this type of player could float with overs and try to take it away latter. If you bet a favorable board like K45 and get called, you must be prepared to empty to clip or you are just giving money away as there might be somewhere like $400 in the pot on the flop after your 3bet preflop and cbet. Most people find it very difficult to fire allin on the turn or river with air. If the Villian is bluff heavy and likes thin value, let him hang himself. I think callers line was most profitable except folding the river of course.
Might be different in other areas, but in my cashgames I would like hero's line on every street. Flatting pre makes a lot of sense because we dominate a ton of the CO and BTNs range with them having weaker Ax, Tx and flushdraws while some of those hands would fold vs a 3bet. I would also need a good amount of History to make this river call. It seems unlikely for someone to just go crazy in a multiway pot on a board like this with no equity. That being said if i saw this villain making similar plays in the past I would lean towards a call, but hating my life
If your plan was to let mp2 bet the nit out of the hand and then go for value, then you need to x/r the turn once the nit is gone because that was the fucking plan. If your reasons keep changing but your behavior stays the same then you are lying to yourself about why you're doing things. In this case caller is a nit himself and doesn't want to risk a lot of money without a lock hand. Wants to look smart by trapping and fold quietly when things get scary. Also if your plan was going to be, call down the maniac with any reasonable made hand, then you better do that even if you have to throw up a little. He has obviously a lot more air in his range than queens and he only needs to have half as much air as queens. To clarify MDF, at equilibrium the ev of your call is always zero because you're indifferent to fold or call because villain is bluffing 1/3 of the time. (Your equity is either 100% or zero %.) However, you need to call with 50% of your range because if he sees you do otherwise he can always bluff or always give up. Likewise if he is bluffing more or less than 1/3 you're supposed to either fold all your bluff catchers or call all of them as appropriate. This player is a true maniac, not an aggro donk, the distinction being an aggro donk will usually quiet down for big money or in multiway pots or when facing resistance or counter aggression, but the maniac does not give a fuck. If you think the maniac has a made hand of any sort at any reasonable frequency then you must x/r the turn because he will call. If you think he's air heavy and that's why you slow play the turn, then you must call the river. So caller played every street wrong basically except possibly the flop.
100% agree. If you think he has mostly queens full on the river then he had trips queens on the turn and caller should have raised turn. If you think he had mostly air on the turn and is a maniac bluffing, then he still has mostly air on the river and is a maniac bluffing. Can’t have it both ways.
The river is absolutely worst card in the deck. But the real mistake was not raising the turn. There are at least 8 cards that make you throw up a little in your mouth when they hit, the 9 being one of them. If the vil has Q here, he's never folding. If he has air, it keeps the hero from having to make a hard decision. Raise turn.
I think Hero needs to consider how passively he played this hand. Villain has no reason to believe he has anything strong since he never showed any aggression. MDF, the nut flush is definitely to 50% of hands. Villain either has a Q or nothing in my opinion. If he's a maniac he could be trying to get an A high hand to fold. I don't love the spot but when playing passively and tricky and showing up on this river with nut flush I call and take my licks..
Leading the river makes no sense. Some people do that when they just are scared to make a decision when facing a bet but it's something you just have to make.
The relatively large river bet compared to the previous streets screamed bluff IMO. And with the description of this known player, it's a tank call even though he could easily have a boat. This guy would bluff here more often than not against someone who is just checking like in this hand. Very frustrating run out though against a tilting player. Interesting hand. Loving these videos!
On paired boards you basically want to turn wired pairs into bluffs because you block full houses. Honestly can't remember callers position but if he was IP his passive play was pretty horrible. Putting it simply when the board is paired oop has to call lighter so IP gets to bet lighter not sure about double paired boards
@@Toadstool4 He's a maniac not a LAG. His bluff range has literally HUNDREDS of combos. Their ranges are far wider than you could imagine. Against a maniac a single card might "block" 1% of his range; it's meaningless.
I think I know exactly the type of player in here (Budapest), central europe and I figured out a crack where if I sense they'd try to push me off of the pot in the river where I'm out of position, exactly like online I block it (even as small as nonsensical 1/10th) where I think they are having extreme difficulty to bluff in position heavy re-raise (imagine being himself in your example, flush on the board and double paired and oop bets very tiny, good luck re-raise potting it with 74o). They mostly mumble their crap and fold where if I check they would bluff me throw huge laugh and toss 42o and sip their beer and highfive their buddy (I'm a foreigner here, not that much liked by locals) etc. I think it worths giving a try.
Comments seem a bit too hard on this caller imo. 3-betting preflop would have made this hand a lot easier but post flop is not that simple once hero got there.
Actually 3 betting may have made this an easier fold on river if Villain donked off. A lot of preflop defends from him with a Q. And if this is Villain's action I'm sure he would've continued preflop.
@@jdub643 I mean villain might 4-bet you (at which point granted you would still fold) but I don't see how they call pre-flop. Honestly though after getting called and 3-bet I'd expect them to fold their garbage hands most of the time but I don't have enough experience playing against people that maniacal to say.
I am a big fun Bart, you're my favorite commentator in HCL and I like this show. The only problem I have is the EMAIL THING, what I mean why the caller needs to email first, and it seems Bart does not know the HANDS. I am a little confuse there.
The mistake was not leading here, very costly, and I think not emphasized enough during the call, no matter how much of a maniac he is. We will never figure out how maniacal maniacs are. When you check/call 4 streets in a row, you completely hide the strength of your hand and look like a station, and also just open up his maniac-self to the maximum. Maniacs are scared easily by true strength. Especially on turn and river. So the correct strategy, after letting him do his job of bloating the pot to your liking, is actually to turn your hand face up, tell the truth, and send him packing before the "moment of reckoning" river spot.
5 checks on calling big river bets. 1. Do you beat any of his value hands? Kind of an N/A. 2. Was their a busted draw? Yes, JT. 3. Do you block the busted draw? Yes, 10 of spades. 4. Is opp capable of bluffing enough? Yes. 5. Is opp capable of turning a marginal hand into a bluff? Yes. Three out of 5 or better you call. In this case it was 3 out of 4.
Let's assume you were last to act after the bet by villian on the turn. In that case, the turn call was correct. We are assuming the villain is super, super wide and betting with near 100% frequency on the turn and river, so let him set his cash on fire. One could argue that his opponent with only a pair still had 4 outs and should be made to pay, but if his river bluff is a certainty, you make MORE money by calling even though you will get beat by 4 in 45 cards. And, of course, he might have a queen and in that case the chips are going in one way or another since this loon will bluff/bet any river, including another spade. Now if you are going to fold to a bet whenever the board double pairs, things get tougher. Now you are folding to 8 different river cards. Of course, if you opponent is certain to bet any river, you simply must call any river bet once you decide to just call, but once you do that, you will ALWAYS have the correct pot odds to call the river. This player is trying to knock you out of the pot and his cards do not matter to him. This read is why you called the turn. You cannot abandon it on the river. However, you are NOT last to act. The BB is still in the hand. His range should have LOTS of queens. If he folds a hand like Js5s pre flop, then he had damn few spades in his range but a boatload of Qx combos as well as a fair amount of trash that will probably fold no matter what. You absolutely must raise here to make the BB choose between making a call with insufficient odds and folding when he has a queen, which will be most of them time he has any sort of hand to continue with. If BB does have a flush, he could easily decide to shove here since you might only have.a queen. As for the flop, I think either approach has merit and either could work depending on a lot of unknowns about the hand.
If someone 3bets me from the SB I'm folding anything that isn't top post flop playable hands but I'm nitty as shit lol and SB range should be narrow as hell if he 3bets pre flop so unless I block some As K's Qs or hold a pair 9+ I'm out Edit: now I'm to the turn card 100% with the hands I would play against that SB 3bet pre flop just filled up.
The problem with these call ins is that the narrative is premised on the information given by the caller. Any additional/contextual information given is subjective and not necessarily true combined with the fact that the caller knows all of the eventual cards. That changes how the caller starts the story. Not many callers are able to be objective. I think analysing streamed hands would be more fruitful.
Playing against maniacs isn’t easy if you haven’t trained yourself to do it. It’s hard to play differently against them than how you normally play. Calling down in a big pot with any pair, A high, sometimes even K high just feels wrong. Gotta kick that feeling to the curb though if you want to beat them. You’ll experience more variance than normal but in the long run you should come out on top.
@@blakefredrickson6506 i’m not here to teach you that what you’re saying is wrong. For the heck of it though I will say your calls need to beat your opponents Bluffs even if they are maniacal. This is a mistake I see a lot of players make when they are playing against a maniac and I’ll leave it at that.
@@Stockhandle123 I’m not saying you should call down with A high every single time. But you definitely have to have it your arsenal. And unless the board is very wet you should call down with weak pairs most the time. I’ve seen it way too many times where a maniac bullies a weak player, then the weak player finally takes a stand so the maniac knows it’s a strong hand and it’s time to get out of the way. I’ve been that weak player before and it’s no fun. Gotta call down with marginal holdings.
This player is playing over the stakes he can afford. He's not able to view things on a large enough scale, each hand is a scary, bumpy ride in a car with bad shocks. My first advice for him would be to play at stakes he can much more easily handle until he gets the balance and frequencies down a little more.
I honestly dislike calls like this. Nothing against the caller but I see a lot of these calls where the hero is contemplating a hero call that is going to bleed chips on average, but of course it will sometimes have the desired outcome. We only see the call where the outcome was as desired, and it almost feels like an attempt to justify a call. Not depicted - the other 95% of the time where the villain shows you Qx for the full house and you lose your stack. This case isn't as egregious as some others I've seen. I wonder if a better approach would be for a hero to track his action in an entire session and send it to Bart, and then let Bart pick the hands for review. There is just too much of a selection effect in these calls.
Anytime I think about heading to the tables I can just watch vids on this channel and remind myself that the money is gone. Even uncreative, unintelligent people just have the blueprint now and, now that it is all mapped out, they just sit at the tables just in case a stray person or two sits down trying to gamble and have fun and play in any suboptimal way. Everything else that mainly happens in these poker rooms is just players pushing money back and forth and letting the house take a cut with every transfer.
Thumb up for the caller's audio quality in this hand!
Couldn’t agree more! So nice when it’s crisp and clean sounding! Especially when your trying to learn something! It’s like in college when you had someone with a heavy accent…trying to teach you English
Great audio quality... and a great educational hand!!! 👍
Can I get the address to this home game?
Yeah us here in Kentucky don’t have casinos or card rooms. And also, no cellphones yet. Landline all day!
@@fowlerjr3983 You must live wayyy out in the sticks. I lived in Covington for awhile.
Caller: Im not scared money
Hand History: Scared to 3bet pre, scared of the nit button on the flop, scared to lead the turn and check raise the maniacs bet. Scared the maniac has a Q or 9 on the river. 🙄🙄🙄
This line was way to passive.
Don't necessarily disagree on earlier streets, but on the river it comes down to his much you trust your own read that he's extremely deviant. I think Bart's advice was fine.
Also, if this is a normal non-atrocious maniac who will barrel off but fold to aggression, XC a made flush isn't bad.
Caller was probably the biggest nit in the hand is definitely scared money
@@PhilipJReed-db3zc you can’t have it both ways.
If we’re check-calling the turn it’s because we’re saying this guy is such a maniac that his range is mostly air and he’ll continue barrelling on the river (even though that means he’s betting into 4 people when the top cards pairs AND a flush comes in). If that’s the case we have to call the river.
If on the other hand you get to the river and go “oh well he must have a queen, I fold” then you should have raised the turn, because no maniac is ever folding trip queens to a single raise.
Agreed. A call on the river was the only thing he needed to redeem this weak approach.
There is a subspecies of player who psychologically lives for moments like these where he can show the big bluff, and he doesn't mind how much it costs him in the long run. They definitely exist.
Got a friend Pif who plays exactly like this. True Maniac
They exist and it's very profitable to call them down light
Gotta live the Maniacs!
This caller admitted he was scared preflop, and the rest of the hand did not disappoint.
- Scared the maniac with a super wide range might boot the pot with weak holdings, so he won’t three bet a good hand and risk a large pot.
- Scared the nit with a small range only has monsters and therefore won’t play a pot.
- Assumes the guy with the wide range will blast with weak holdings, gets the bet, gets the fold from the scary nit, DECIDES NOW HES SCARED BY MANIAC GUY AND CALLS but also justifies that manic guy will bet out the River and give him his value anyway
- Legitimate scare card comes on River, maniac blasts as expected… and now it scares hero.
And for that reason, I’m out.
I see what you did there. :-)
I´m here today because i want to sell 49% of my lemonade stand for 5 million dollars.
@@glennhagstedt I'll tell you what, I'll offer you 250 bucks for 200% of your lemonade stand; otherwise I'm out.
Three bet pre, barrel the flop and bomb the turn, and hence elimate all the guess work, if villian has a full house, say nice hand and move on.
I love when callers use these terms that they hear not knowing what they really mean and then call people nits and then describe their nit play lol
Not only that, I love it when they'll label me something. Once they label you, they're always going to be at a disadvantage. I never underestimate players because no matter how habitual they may play, they can always change it up at the least suspecting time. The fallacy is to think oneself as smart and observing and everyone else as just ants. Everyone out there is smarter than you may think. I always stay humble.
The maniac? I'd say: Shark.
.
The scared hands always see a shark as a maniac. This shark had a nit on btn as a shield. Well done Mr. Maniac!
@Bryan Smith you mean: You are a shark!
I would've definitely bet on making the nut flush. what in the world are you going to bet if you dont bet that? Unless you wanted to trap. It's a call, a call in Kentucky, or China, especially given the player type..and you know this man
On the river? I’m folding here as played but I’m never playing like that so I wouldn’t be in this spot.
If he is going to play post flop like this, the caller would be better off folding A-10s before the flop. If he isn't comfortable with a flush on a paired board and needs an even better hand that that, it just isn't going to happen often enough to justify the preflop call.
So,the caller basically made all the live reads correct but then folded despite his reads…
As is often the case, preflop decisions murky the waters on all later streets.
On the river you’re beating nothing basically. But on the turn I’m shipping it and running it a few times or running once and crying in the car 🤷🏿♂️
I’d presume the maniac would fold if you shipped the turn. Although he’d have 4 outs if he called you with his 74o 😂
If villain is prone to bet this hand (and most any other hand) in this fashion, check calling is best. I am always amazed that guys like this never seem to learn. It does not take people long to adjust and let them bluff off their entire stack. If they run good, you can fry, but overall, they are probably the biggest source of profit except maybe the truly awful folks who are very passive and call way too wide.
He dug his own hole on this one. Semi bluff on the flop to make the pot bigger. Shove on the turn. If you lose to a Fullhouse, you lose to a fullhouse. It's just a cooler. Playing scared when you have the nut flush is just playing tooo tight and passive.
I don't think I like semi-bluffing on the flop because the button should have something pretty strong there.
I think you really just need to lead small on turn.The stack depth makes most check raises awkward (and as mentioned a lot of times that checks through anyway) so that leaves jamming but there aren't enough lower flushes left with the AQT9 all accounted for (in retrospect someone that opens 74o may very well open K2s but in general even if I think my opponent is wide I won't won't put anything under K7s into their MP range with any confidence). Counting reasonable combos I feel like they have 7ish lower flushes (assuming those all call a check jam) and 8 boats + quads.
Ewww what awful advice. Hero should be 3 betting pre but check raising this flop as played is a bad idea imo. He should definitely be raising the turn as played though.
Another story beggining with "I let him bluff" and ending with "so i fold the best hand"
Jesus, people don't learn xD if your plan is let the maniac bluff, you MUST CALL
If you will fold in the river, don't let him bluff and raise the turn.
Stop making "traps" to fold!
Yeah. This guy will fold 10 full stacks of chips away to the maniac before finally having the stone cold nuts on the river and stacking the maniac at which point he’ll pay himself on the back for his clever slow playing.
Does Bart understand the term "maniac"? I don't think he does. He's like "Oh gosh I dunno does he have the queen, doesn't he...." HE's A MANIAC. He could have 72 a random 4, 88s, A 3,etc. This is a SLAM DUNK call. If hero folded here he should be banned from Poker halls for a year to think over his grievous sins.
There is a poker room in Kentucky now. I moved to Tennessee from Jersey and a poker room in London, Kentucky, is the closest place for me to play. It's called The Royal Social Club. It opened last summer. I haven't gone yet because I plan on playing in the 3k Guaranteed they have on Saturdays and there has been terrible weather every Saturday for the last 2 months. They have a 20k Guaranteed every 3rd Saturday of the month that I plan on playing in too.
Scared money doesn’t win….
The button was the person you were most worried about and when he folded on the turn, that opens the door to raise the maniac. I paused it, so I don’t yet know what you did. But when I hit “play” again, I’m hoping that’s what you did.
Who hits the nut flush and gets scared? Balls out man! This is poker
It’s plays like 3 monotone boards, betting the flush draw in with air and bluffing when it misses, that make more sense now that I’ve gotten into PLO much more
why use pot odds otr and not mdf?
the guy's cbet with 74 is quite off. but had i done that on the flop, why not keep betting on the turn and river? he just turn bottom pair into bluff which sounds reasonable to me
When you get THREE callers on the flop, betting that turn is literally setting your money on fire with bottom pair.
@@ligafftheindifferent3495 oh, dont get me wrong, i think just betting the flop is burning money. Yet, if u gonna start it in such spot, might as well go 3st
I’m in Louisville. I need to get in on this home game
I need to move to Louisville for, uh... uh... work! Yeah, packing up and leaving my family behind, it sucks. But btw, can you get me a seat at this game? XD
@@noex100
What kinda job are you moving to Louisville to do? There is a casino across the river in Indiana that has cash games
@@mattk40104mk It was a joke, that home game is gonna be my new job XD
I'm very new to taking poker seriously, but I don't know how he didn't lead on any street. Even if you have the tight player behind it would make more sense to bet to see if he really is strong.
The logic in this hand makes no sense. Pre-flop - if we are against the maniac we should pretty much be always 3-betting AT suited because we have a strong range advantage. If we're against just the nit, we should not be 3-betting because when we get called we're usually behind or flipping. If we're against a raise from the maniac and a call from the nit, we should be squeezing because the nit capped their range and will likely fold all the hands that both flat and beat AT. So no reason to not squeeze AT suited in this spot at all.
On the flop when the maniac bets and the button calls - why would we assume the nit is slow playing a set? It's a very dynamic board. Not saying some nitty players don't also slow play, but that would be a pretty glaring leak - especially with a trigger happy maniac in the hand. The button is very often going to have Qx, 9x, a pocket pair like JJ, TT, 88, or a draw.
When the turn pairs the Q, why not lead?? There are so so so many times we get called by worse. Plus it makes us look like WE have a Queen, so maybe the maniac will try to rep a flush and bluff. And if we are checking: we have to be check raising the maniac. That's the kind of spot that we wait hours for.
On the river we have a straight non-linear logic issue. In the hero's mind, the maniac could be "firing off with anything", he says it and sights an example on the turn. He then says that the maniac could not be firing off with a flush on the river. WHY NOT? One of those statements has to be wrong. And since the hand was played under the assumption that the maniac over values middling hands, I would absolutely assume the maniac can have a flush on the river.
Counter point: If the Villian is super wide preflop and bluff heavy post, do you really want to bloat the pot preflop out of position, knowing he will likely call a raise preflop. What do you do when you brick the flop 70% of the time. With your logic, you will not bet a board that is not favorable to your range and fold to a bet. If you do bet an unfavorable board, this type of player could float with overs and try to take it away latter. If you bet a favorable board like K45 and get called, you must be prepared to empty to clip or you are just giving money away as there might be somewhere like $400 in the pot on the flop after your 3bet preflop and cbet. Most people find it very difficult to fire allin on the turn or river with air. If the Villian is bluff heavy and likes thin value, let him hang himself. I think callers line was most profitable except folding the river of course.
Playing tentatively causes your worst nightmare to happen!
Might be different in other areas, but in my cashgames I would like hero's line on every street. Flatting pre makes a lot of sense because we dominate a ton of the CO and BTNs range with them having weaker Ax, Tx and flushdraws while some of those hands would fold vs a 3bet. I would also need a good amount of History to make this river call. It seems unlikely for someone to just go crazy in a multiway pot on a board like this with no equity. That being said if i saw this villain making similar plays in the past I would lean towards a call, but hating my life
If your plan was to let mp2 bet the nit out of the hand and then go for value, then you need to x/r the turn once the nit is gone because that was the fucking plan. If your reasons keep changing but your behavior stays the same then you are lying to yourself about why you're doing things. In this case caller is a nit himself and doesn't want to risk a lot of money without a lock hand. Wants to look smart by trapping and fold quietly when things get scary. Also if your plan was going to be, call down the maniac with any reasonable made hand, then you better do that even if you have to throw up a little. He has obviously a lot more air in his range than queens and he only needs to have half as much air as queens.
To clarify MDF, at equilibrium the ev of your call is always zero because you're indifferent to fold or call because villain is bluffing 1/3 of the time. (Your equity is either 100% or zero %.) However, you need to call with 50% of your range because if he sees you do otherwise he can always bluff or always give up. Likewise if he is bluffing more or less than 1/3 you're supposed to either fold all your bluff catchers or call all of them as appropriate.
This player is a true maniac, not an aggro donk, the distinction being an aggro donk will usually quiet down for big money or in multiway pots or when facing resistance or counter aggression, but the maniac does not give a fuck.
If you think the maniac has a made hand of any sort at any reasonable frequency then you must x/r the turn because he will call. If you think he's air heavy and that's why you slow play the turn, then you must call the river.
So caller played every street wrong basically except possibly the flop.
100% agree.
If you think he has mostly queens full on the river then he had trips queens on the turn and caller should have raised turn.
If you think he had mostly air on the turn and is a maniac bluffing, then he still has mostly air on the river and is a maniac bluffing.
Can’t have it both ways.
The river is absolutely worst card in the deck. But the real mistake was not raising the turn. There are at least 8 cards that make you throw up a little in your mouth when they hit, the 9 being one of them. If the vil has Q here, he's never folding. If he has air, it keeps the hero from having to make a hard decision. Raise turn.
This is why you should get the money in earlier in a hand like this. That way a 9 pairing the board wouldn't scare you out of making the right move.
u really shouldn't though against this kinda player. if they gonna blast like this u have to just check call down
"that's a special type of maniac..."
Can I get that on a tshirt ?
I think Hero needs to consider how passively he played this hand. Villain has no reason to believe he has anything strong since he never showed any aggression. MDF, the nut flush is definitely to 50% of hands. Villain either has a Q or nothing in my opinion. If he's a maniac he could be trying to get an A high hand to fold. I don't love the spot but when playing passively and tricky and showing up on this river with nut flush I call and take my licks..
Time line of literally every CLP call:
- Pre-flop
- Flop
- Turn
- River
- Villain shows a crazy hand that had nothing to do with any of his actions.
There is a newest charity room in London, KY.
I think i like a bet fold on the river when the Q or 9 comes , it makes it alot harder for him to have a bluff with how the turn played
Leading the river makes no sense. Some people do that when they just are scared to make a decision when facing a bet but it's something you just have to make.
The raise on the turn would have won him the hand
The relatively large river bet compared to the previous streets screamed bluff IMO. And with the description of this known player, it's a tank call even though he could easily have a boat. This guy would bluff here more often than not against someone who is just checking like in this hand. Very frustrating run out though against a tilting player. Interesting hand. Loving these videos!
- So, how passive are you?
- Yes.
If the caller didn’t want to call what he was doing “playing scared” he could always call it “playing like a nit bitch”
6:34 “I’m checking but I’m not necessarily folding my hand”.
Be fair, he wasn’t planning to fold his turned nut flush to a single bet from a maniac.
calm down
Seems harsh.
So, a hero walks into a bar and sits down with a nit and a maniac.......
I thought there was a casino in London, Kentucky?
I’m find myself calling these types of players down super light. I don’t think I’m folding river as played but I’m x/r the turn or leading turn.
None of this hand was about poker. It was about mentality.
On paired boards you basically want to turn wired pairs into bluffs because you block full houses. Honestly can't remember callers position but if he was IP his passive play was pretty horrible. Putting it simply when the board is paired oop has to call lighter so IP gets to bet lighter not sure about double paired boards
Have a T in your hand is an argument against calling here since it blocks most of his bluffs
This is probably the worst reason not to call.
"It blocks most of his bluffs"; I see you haven't played with many maniacs before.
@@noex100 I guess I shouldn't say most but it certainly blocks some. He's more likely to get to the river here with T8 KT JT than say K5dd
@@Toadstool4 He's a maniac not a LAG. His bluff range has literally HUNDREDS of combos. Their ranges are far wider than you could imagine. Against a maniac a single card might "block" 1% of his range; it's meaningless.
@@noex100 "It blocks most of his bluffs" Might want to rely a bit less on those online coaching videos and play a little more real world poker.
Call the bluffers.
I think I know exactly the type of player in here (Budapest), central europe and I figured out a crack where if I sense they'd try to push me off of the pot in the river where I'm out of position, exactly like online I block it (even as small as nonsensical 1/10th) where I think they are having extreme difficulty to bluff in position heavy re-raise (imagine being himself in your example, flush on the board and double paired and oop bets very tiny, good luck re-raise potting it with 74o). They mostly mumble their crap and fold where if I check they would bluff me throw huge laugh and toss 42o and sip their beer and highfive their buddy (I'm a foreigner here, not that much liked by locals) etc. I think it worths giving a try.
How to play suited broadway ace so passively better switch from playing poker to playing solitaire
Yikes, caller might be the spot in the game.
That was a call. Never folding nut flush. Ever. Long run it's a big winner
Comments seem a bit too hard on this caller imo. 3-betting preflop would have made this hand a lot easier but post flop is not that simple once hero got there.
Actually 3 betting may have made this an easier fold on river if Villain donked off. A lot of preflop defends from him with a Q. And if this is Villain's action I'm sure he would've continued preflop.
@@jdub643 I mean villain might 4-bet you (at which point granted you would still fold) but I don't see how they call pre-flop. Honestly though after getting called and 3-bet I'd expect them to fold their garbage hands most of the time but I don't have enough experience playing against people that maniacal to say.
My favorite type of players ❤ A lot of them in Baltimore and Philly areas.
I am a big fun Bart, you're my favorite commentator in HCL and I like this show. The only problem I have is the EMAIL THING, what I mean why the caller needs to email first, and it seems Bart does not know the HANDS. I am a little confuse there.
i def thought the river was a call vs the described villain.
Is there no merit to a block bet here?
The mistake was not leading here, very costly, and I think not emphasized enough during the call, no matter how much of a maniac he is. We will never figure out how maniacal maniacs are. When you check/call 4 streets in a row, you completely hide the strength of your hand and look like a station, and also just open up his maniac-self to the maximum. Maniacs are scared easily by true strength. Especially on turn and river. So the correct strategy, after letting him do his job of bloating the pot to your liking, is actually to turn your hand face up, tell the truth, and send him packing before the "moment of reckoning" river spot.
5 checks on calling big river bets.
1. Do you beat any of his value hands? Kind of an N/A.
2. Was their a busted draw? Yes, JT.
3. Do you block the busted draw? Yes, 10 of spades.
4. Is opp capable of bluffing enough? Yes.
5. Is opp capable of turning a marginal hand into a bluff? Yes.
Three out of 5 or better you call. In this case it was 3 out of 4.
You play scared at the beginning of the hand, aggressiveness pays off, you let the villain do this to you.
Classic intermediate play on preflop. If he will bet when checked to, great. Check when you flop an ace
Caller, is this Joe or Toni’s game?
neither
Let's assume you were last to act after the bet by villian on the turn. In that case, the turn call was correct. We are assuming the villain is super, super wide and betting with near 100% frequency on the turn and river, so let him set his cash on fire. One could argue that his opponent with only a pair still had 4 outs and should be made to pay, but if his river bluff is a certainty, you make MORE money by calling even though you will get beat by 4 in 45 cards. And, of course, he might have a queen and in that case the chips are going in one way or another since this loon will bluff/bet any river, including another spade. Now if you are going to fold to a bet whenever the board double pairs, things get tougher. Now you are folding to 8 different river cards. Of course, if you opponent is certain to bet any river, you simply must call any river bet once you decide to just call, but once you do that, you will ALWAYS have the correct pot odds to call the river. This player is trying to knock you out of the pot and his cards do not matter to him. This read is why you called the turn. You cannot abandon it on the river.
However, you are NOT last to act. The BB is still in the hand. His range should have LOTS of queens. If he folds a hand like Js5s pre flop, then he had damn few spades in his range but a boatload of Qx combos as well as a fair amount of trash that will probably fold no matter what. You absolutely must raise here to make the BB choose between making a call with insufficient odds and folding when he has a queen, which will be most of them time he has any sort of hand to continue with. If BB does have a flush, he could easily decide to shove here since you might only have.a queen.
As for the flop, I think either approach has merit and either could work depending on a lot of unknowns about the hand.
Before looking at the reveal im gonna make a guess and say Villain has quad 9s.
Yeah.... i was pretty close.
Guy is not stupid. I seen players like he ran into use the Flop,Turn, River as their hand....You can pick up some nice pots on tight plays that way...
I’m sorry, which player is the nit?
I swear he already uploaded this video
Find it!
i visit KY (around Bowling Green) several times a year, can I get an invite to your game?
Caller is scared 💰
If someone 3bets me from the SB I'm folding anything that isn't top post flop playable hands but I'm nitty as shit lol and SB range should be narrow as hell if he 3bets pre flop so unless I block some As K's Qs or hold a pair 9+ I'm out
Edit: now I'm to the turn card 100% with the hands I would play against that SB 3bet pre flop just filled up.
The problem with these call ins is that the narrative is premised on the information given by the caller. Any additional/contextual information given is subjective and not necessarily true combined with the fact that the caller knows all of the eventual cards. That changes how the caller starts the story. Not many callers are able to be objective. I think analysing streamed hands would be more fruitful.
Can I get the address to this home game?
If you don't call with nut flush here; what are you calling with besides nuts? Pocket 4s? Lol
A LITTLE home game! Lol
Well... that's all I can say.
Flip a coin. Final answer.
Playing against maniacs isn’t easy if you haven’t trained yourself to do it. It’s hard to play differently against them than how you normally play.
Calling down in a big pot with any pair, A high, sometimes even K high just feels wrong. Gotta kick that feeling to the curb though if you want to beat them. You’ll experience more variance than normal but in the long run you should come out on top.
Lol no
@@Stockhandle123 great point
@@blakefredrickson6506 i’m not here to teach you that what you’re saying is wrong. For the heck of it though I will say your calls need to beat your opponents Bluffs even if they are maniacal. This is a mistake I see a lot of players make when they are playing against a maniac and I’ll leave it at that.
@@Stockhandle123 I’m not saying you should call down with A high every single time. But you definitely have to have it your arsenal. And unless the board is very wet you should call down with weak pairs most the time.
I’ve seen it way too many times where a maniac bullies a weak player, then the weak player finally takes a stand so the maniac knows it’s a strong hand and it’s time to get out of the way. I’ve been that weak player before and it’s no fun. Gotta call down with marginal holdings.
Im guessing maniac has pocket pair
This player is playing over the stakes he can afford. He's not able to view things on a large enough scale, each hand is a scary, bumpy ride in a car with bad shocks. My first advice for him would be to play at stakes he can much more easily handle until he gets the balance and frequencies down a little more.
Alternative title: Caller plays against Eastern European guy in Kentucky
caller does not seem to know what a donk bet is, making it sound like a very derogatory play
You need to have 100% equity 33% of the time lol.
This is one of the worst hand analyses I have ever seen. Almost nothing correct was said by either party.
Please let us know what we should do next time?
Lol if he’s half normal he wouldn’t do that that’s funny dude
Much less likely to have a house on double paired Board. Easy call
Sorry playing too much PLO
Shove on THE TURN
on this Guy then u wont get out played
If you’re scared, stay home.
Maniac alert!!
this is so low stakes player mentality, scared money.
I honestly dislike calls like this. Nothing against the caller but I see a lot of these calls where the hero is contemplating a hero call that is going to bleed chips on average, but of course it will sometimes have the desired outcome.
We only see the call where the outcome was as desired, and it almost feels like an attempt to justify a call. Not depicted - the other 95% of the time where the villain shows you Qx for the full house and you lose your stack.
This case isn't as egregious as some others I've seen.
I wonder if a better approach would be for a hero to track his action in an entire session and send it to Bart, and then let Bart pick the hands for review. There is just too much of a selection effect in these calls.
Kings maybe?
Anytime I think about heading to the tables I can just watch vids on this channel and remind myself that the money is gone. Even uncreative, unintelligent people just have the blueprint now and, now that it is all mapped out, they just sit at the tables just in case a stray person or two sits down trying to gamble and have fun and play in any suboptimal way. Everything else that mainly happens in these poker rooms is just players pushing money back and forth and letting the house take a cut with every transfer.
Bart I love your call ins but I’ll never do it because your comment section loves nothing but shredding the callers lol #bebetter people
Second!
FIRST