Restoring Apollo (Horizon: Forbidden West)
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- With so many new challenges awaiting Aloy in the Forbidden West, there is one that may be the key to bringing stability to Horizon's tribal world. Can Gaia's purged subordinate function be brought back online? Join us as we theorize on how Aloy might be able to bring Apollo back!
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Sobek said she designed GAIA with Ted's potential tampering in mind. That she kept him out of several very key loops. I don't think he knew about the synthetic fossils. I think they survived.
She had to keep him out of it. Distract him with heavy jargon and confusing diagrams. Otherwise he would have pushed ZD's completion date back with his interference and harassment of the crew. She was damage control and the heart of the project.
A bit late to the conversation, but you are right. Synthetic fossils we use to store data can last thousands of years or even millions because we make them using sillica glass. It is technically not possible to erase or purge data because storing it in synthetics fossils make this data physical material that machines can use to read and decipher and upload to a screen.
Ted Faro probably thought it was just some very long lasting data storage device like any other, and thought he could wipe the slate clean. In reality, he probably only managed to sever the connection between Apollo and the fossils.
In short, the only real way to destroy this data is to destroy the fossils and grind them into dust, even then you would still find some form of knowledge, incomplete and corrupted, but not entirely lost, just pieces of a large puzzle. Which, lets assume, if there are 3000 plus failsafes, one probably includes backup fossils, untouched and not connected to any network that could have been destroyed.
I initially found it odd that DNA was used to store the knowledge, but it turns out to be extremely practical for its ability to store dense amounts of information.
To anyone who is new here. You have just found a good place for HZD and HFW content
-Good place- : best place
Have you considered doing a video pondering the question of whether or not Ted Faro's stated goal of "freeing humanity from the chains of the past" worked out in favor of the new tribes of the world? There's nationalist discrimination and classism, but racism doesn't seem to exist, nor does homophobia. Could Faro's decision could have aided that, even though it was likely motivated by a desire to make sure that generations of humanity yet to be born wouldn't see him as the dangerous fool who doomed the old world.
Maybe Faro leaving Gaia's new humanity without the history of persecution of marginalized people allowed new humans to be born into societies where other races or sexual orientations weren't seen as weird.
praveen -on tipped-iceberg youtube anyways.
Thank you, just got into the game
@@gregbasore2108 'sure', in one Small part of their old american continent.
while ignoring the others of possibility from the otherside of the still vague larger continents of the eastern Earth.
The guy who came into Guerilla and changed the storyline on HZD did such an incredible job, I’d love to see Steven Spielberg or Peter Jackson do an adaptation for the big screen, it’s such an epic but relatively unknown story and it deserves to be told.
I absolutely agree, the Horizon Games really deserve a brighter spotlight
I think a big budget TV show a la Game of Thrones would be amazing. Films are just too short for this kind of thing
@@jaimiepotts7638 even considering The Frozen Wilds and Forbidden West? There’s plenty of quests and missions in the game worthy of being included in the storyline, hunters lodge being just one that springs to mind.
Nah. All games to movies are suck. Let the game remain a game.
Let's see how The Last Of Us TV Series does first!
when ted killed the other alphas i was sad but always thought there was something important behind the act of killing. if he was sure he had wiped out apollo why kill them at all. you sumed it up quite well rsq. great content keep it up!
I can think of one reason to kill them, even if he was sure they couldn't stop him. Same reason he got rid of Apollo. Not that made up bullshit reason he gave about "forcing people to be chained to history and repeat it", naw, he never believed that.
Ted Farro destroyed Apollo because he didn't want the world to know that the machine swarm was his fault. He didn't want people in the future to look at him as the great fool and careless idiot who damned the world with his hubris. If he can't be remembered as our savior, he at least be comepletely forgotten instead of remembered as our damnation.
It's also speculated that he might have gone for the "Legacy Program" that was debated and rejected. The idea was to have people perfectly cloned and for their memories to be written into programs that could written into the minds of the clones, basically overwriting their identities. Or maybe it involved transplanting the brain into new cloned bodies. But the idea was to create a functional immortality for the ZD Alphas. They ultimately decided that would be unethical and to simply leave an archive for humans to from the past.
So the idea that some have, is that Ted activated that program for himself and is still alive in some form. He might even be the mysterious figure who sent the activation code to Hades and threw the world into chaos. If Ted did insure a form of immortality, it'd make sense for him to kill the other ZD Alphas just to make sure none of them followed suit.
@@gregbasore2108 thanks for the elaborate explanation. His ego made him doom the planet two times. With Horizon Zero Dawn 2, I hope your theory about him still alive somewhere can turn out to be true so we can eliminate him for good.
@@gregbasore2108 you know, this theory makes a lot more sense than expected. Elizabet had her DNA stored and cloned into Aloy (as a Hail Mary plan to restore things to the proper path), so why wouldn't Ted try the same thing? He hid a personal weaponized contingency no one allegedly had any idea of, whay not have a clone/replacement do hos twisted bidding years down the line? He made himself a PERSONAL bunker. Who knows what bullshit he took with him in there?
Or he was afraid they could dedicate the rest of their lives to at least rebuild it partially, they all were experts in their fields after all.
@@alexhulea2735 That's one of my two personal theories.
a) Ted XXVI sent the code because .... reasons - I mean, it was the world he created so ... why kill it again?
b) The Odyssey didn't blow, they settled someplace, came back and decided "We want earth back, but not with these primitives on it."
I have some experience with computer systems. Regarding current technology, deleting files or data doesn't actually get rid of the information: it just allows those places in memory to be overwritten. This is the very reason why deleted files can generally be recovered. Assuming this principle holds with APOLLO's archives, then unless Ted damaged the archives by tampering with the system, or added enough new information to the archives to override a significant portion (which I find highly unlikely), then as long as the data can be restored, I find it incredibly likely that it can be brought back.
Yeah, most people don't know that deleting data files doesn't get rid of them entirely. And Faro probably wouldn't have gone to extreme lengths to completely destroy Apollo, since he planned to murder the Alphas anyways, and no one in the future would really have enough knowledge on the technology of the past to recover the files from DNA.
The question is whether this was a software deletion (e.g. normally deleting a file from a hard drive, or wiping the partition table to clear it), or a hardware deletion (e.g. putting the drive through a shredder, heating it until it demagnetizes, exposing it to seawater and letting it corrode). I'm leaning toward the latter, as the video also mentions: Subvert the temperature management of the archives, and the contents are at risk.
DNA will deteriorate fairly quickly if not cooled - -18°C seems like a good temperature to store it given scientific results showing that at -5°C mitochondrial DNA has a half-life of close to 10 000 years for longer (500 base pair) strands ([Allentoft et al.] table 1). However, the same study also indicates that at 25°C that half life drops to 30 years(!) - meaning that if, say, the cooling systems were subverted to start heating the archive instead, DNA decay could be sped up significantly.
It would not be an immediate effect, in other words, so murdering the Alphas would provide insurance for the purge going through without any archive cooling systems being shutdown and brought back to cooling.
[Allentoft et al.] www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3497090/
Over 15 years ago, I saw a bit on Tech TV (before they got bought out and destroyed by G4) where a hacker's "tip of the day" pointed out this exact problem and mentioned a kind of software that will create and delete junk data over and over so that a hard drive is completely wiped and the data intended to was truly gone.
If that kind of info was available to general audiences in 2004, we can safely assumed that a computer genius trillionaire in the 2060s would be able to figure out a similar approach.
That happens only in SSD and HDD tech, we're talking about data stored it dna, to distroy the data in them you'll have to change the temperature so the dna bonds break, ted faro most likely did that. And it's been a long time since the dna in which the data is stored broke so they most likely decomposed. I don't think they can recover any data after that. Lets hope that one of the facilities failed and didn't take any commands to distroy the data, that would be possible
@@spicemonke7306 It'd be great if it turned out some lazy IT guy didn't install the latest patch because he was oversleeping after a long night of online gaming.
Ted Faro's scheme being undone by a slaz ass Gen Gamma dork would be the shit.
I felt so devastated for Samina. Finding out, right before she was murdered, that everything she had dedicated the last year of her life to, believing she would preserve human knowledge and culture, was erased. And she was so sweet in her recordings.
Really amazing how you drew the connection between the 3 red objects, and the ancient vessel.
Though, if Apollo is actually recovered and the humans regain all that knowledge, I'm curious how it will be incorporated in the game and it's narrative, because the purge of Apollo is the narrative reason we are given for the humanity devolving and falling back to ignorance, and for the game's setting being in the post post apocalyptic yet Tribal era, which we all know and love
@Anthony E Ashworth You raise good points. Let's see what direction the writers take. Can't wait for the new game...
@Anthony E Ashworth Regarding tribes... there could be the Oseram, which would be willing to exploit that knowledge, and maybe this could eventually lead to some conflicts between technologically advanced tribes and primitive tribes
All hell will break loose. Simply put.
It could be a fitting end for forbidden west or a 3rd game? Like congratulations now humans understand electricity and wiring and metalworking better and can rebuild comfortably
Idk if I'd go as far as to say that I love the Tribal era I'd actually be much more interested in seeing a game where we're well past that and perhaps play as a grandkid of Aloy
I'd like to mention a fourth possibility. What if Apollo was restored by Aloy but with an empty archive?
The idea essentially would be that even though the knowledge of the 21st century would be lost forever, Apollo could act as an archive for the history and knowledge of the 31st century, preserving it and ensuring that periods of stagnation like the middle ages wouldn't happen again. It's educational function would also ensure that the future generations of the tribes would be able to learn from an ever increasing and stable baseline. And finally thanks to the focuses that knowledge would easily be accessible to anyone using them.
And, if in a different way, it would help the people of the 31st century to sprout a new tree of knowledge, their tree of knowledge.
What do you think?
An AI that is able to critically analyze the data input by new/fixed focus' and combine it with the technological knowledge of the other GAIA subsystems when brought in to create a new future. Machine animals and plants formed to allow not just our biosphere to thrive but also humans. Not like "automated luxury life" but more of "we can and choose to become better with each generation."
@@MechaBetty Exactly, though I'd think that Apollo was meant to be mainly a teacher and a keepr rather than a researcher or a scientist, so I'd think that what you suggest is something that would be out ot its capabilities. However, Minerva could be a candidate to play that part, after all it was designed to be most advanced computing system ever developed
Oh I like this idea. Plus a lot of what we discovered since the Renaissance and Enlightenment were already "discovered" in Antiquity. The only reason why there was such a scientific boon in the last 200 years is because of the Industrial Revolution which allowed more people of middle class status to pursue intellectual goals that was previously only for the upper class (since they had the leisure time).
This expansion of leisure time with the help of the machines could jump start a Renaissance or Enlightenment period for the tribes of the 31st Century. A rediscovering of the old knowledge. HADES knew advance mathematics and sciences. I would think that the other subfunctions would know such things too.
APOLLO was primarily a cultural and historical archive. While yes the sciences and maths were in there, APOLLO also held art, history, culture, literature, ect. The very soul of humanity. And I think that is the greater lost.
Technological achievements can be rediscovered, Derval made a phonograph. We already see technology being applied via the harvesting of machines. The Osseram are probably the most tech advance but there could easily be a tribe or tribes that surpass their knowledge.
For me it's the cultural and historical knowledge lost held within APOLLO.
That's a really good idea, but I don't think it would work so well in practice. APOLLO was supposed to be an archive. What it learnt, it kept for itself until someone brought it online and accessed its files. So it can't learn by itself, and thus relies on others to update it. Someone would have to make new files detailing the world of the 31st century for the information to be passed on to the next generations, and there are only a handful of people who even have a chance at doing that. And since Aloy and Sylens are both pretty busy from the looks of it, I doubt that anyone will be trying something like this anytime soon.
@@pietrocatalano4285 I'd ask you to consider the fact that APOLLO is not just a subordinate function anymore, like all the other functions it is now a fully self aware AI, so one could assume that whatever limitation had been imposed on it by the engineers is now gone. Given that AIs are renowed for being able to learn, I'd be pretty sure that APOLLO would have that ability too and given the empty archives it'd probably want to replenish them as soon as possible.
You should do a commented gameplay of Horizon Forbidden West when the game is released. I would definitely love to watch you play, especially since I know you value the game's story and wouldn't leave any files behind!
These lore vids always make me pop the game back in
Bummed they had to push HFW back, but still love picking apart the lore. Also I was thinking about a recording of Margo telling Charles that "Ted doesn't understand the systems at all. That was kinda by design." Maybe he only thought he purged Apollo, which would also explain why he killed the Alphas. He didn't want them figuring out that he didn't because he apparently didn't know the minutia of what the Alphas were doing. Seeing as all the Alphas were chosen because of their skills, if he'd left them alive, they probably would have figured out a way to restore Apollo and keep him out potentially. He couldn't risk that so he had to kill them all.
Exactly, Ted knew that what he did would be at least partially ineffective because he did not fully understand what he was doing, and almost certainly believed that the Alphas would recover it, and lock him out forever as well.
He had one shot to do it, and couldn't allow the possibility of them recovering it. Thus, kill protocol.
(so yeah, fully agreed 👍)
he also needed them to bail him out from... you know the world ending... again... just like he needed Elizabeth to fix the energy crises that made him a trillionaire
I really hope they do restore Apollo.
I hope so too
I think they will manage it; however, my theory is that Gaia will decide that dumping all that information onto the current established societies would be catastrophic, so she might choose to slowly release the Apollo archives over the course of a few centuries.
@@Shaun_Jones That's probably the most logical course of action. Like you say, that enormous info-dump on a tribal society would be catastrophic. It was different when the plan was to teach new, unsocialised humans that knowledge from scratch, but delivering it to swathes of primitive tribesmen with hundreds of years of established culture, and a history of their own...? It would probably do more harm than good.
Of course, the alternative could be even worse. A handful of people having knowledge nobody else possesses...could end badly. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king, as they say.
I honestly wouldn't know how to handle revealing APOLLO, if I were in Aloy/GAIA's shoes...
@@valkyrion_ex1173 the evil of knowledge no one else possess.. Sylens bitch ass lol
welp
Hi, I just want to say that I absolutely love your channel and that I’ve been devouring plenty of your videos ever since I found it.
I finished Horizon Zero Dawn last week and I’m totally hyped for Forbidden West. But before the next game arrives, I would like to see you create a video covering a very recurrent theme in Horizon: Technology being essentially Magic.
Any sci-fi fan should be familiar with Clarke’s Third Law, “Any technology, no matter how primitive, is magic to those who don’t understand it.” And the world of Horizon perfectly illustrates that seeing the primitive humans’ beliefs rooted in the technology of the Old Ones.
If you look at the trends in shows and movies when it comes to aliens, we usually portray them to be technologically advanced compared to us. The writers of Horizon flipped that notion on its head by making humans, the Old Ones at least, and their technology essentially be “alien” to the present humans. They were able to organically bridge that premise through the means of a post-apocalypse narrative, creating a rich world for players to explore.
The reason why 31st Century humans and their tribes have come to view the Old Ones’ technology as magic is mainly because of Apollo’s erasure. Which is precisely the reason why as I played from Aloy’s point of view, I felt an unsettling wonder of how intricately crafted Horizon’s world is.
Aloy’s journey of discovery and knowledge despite Apollo’s absence begs the question of how much knowledge of technology can bring a person power. Before she insisted against it, the Nora tribe began to worship her, calling her ”The Anointed” after exiting All-Mother’s Door because of how left in the dark they were. To them, Aloy was essentially a “goddess” (small g intentional) because of her knowledge, capabilities, and her genetic makeup being the key to the Cradle facility’s door, technology that none of her tribespeople could comprehend at all. To them, she was the most powerful person in the world, and as I played through the game, I began to believe so too as I learned how to takedown and tame machines.
Maybe it’s the reason why Aloy is often criticised as a Mary Sue, when she really isn’t. She falls under the character trope of “The Chosen One,” which is that of a person who is supposed to fulfill a destiny. When Aloy found out her birth origins and began to have an existential crisis because of it, Sylens with his wit and sarcasm told Aloy “How tragic to learn you’re a person of towering importance!” A Mary Sue would have powers and capabilities that suddenly show up in the heat of the moment with no explanation at all. Aloy had none of that, having her heart broken by Rost’s death, and feeling unsettled as her life would inextricably be made more complex by technology, the same technology which had birthed her.
Playing Horizon has given me incredible inspiration for this fictional world I have been brewing in my head for years, and if I ever get the chance to work with Guerilla Games to make my world into a game, I have no doubt that you will see plenty of inspiration coming from Horizon.
In the meantime, I believe the topic would make for an excellent meta-analysis/commentary video, one where I’d like to see you savor in-depth the technology in Horizon’s world, and how it is the same technology which makes it magical. From Aloy’s birth to the challenges she has to face.
Thank you for continuing to make videos on HZD, and once the next installment arrives, may you continue to be blessed with more lore for your videos’ content! :))
Jesus!!! U write too much
This was very well written and I enjoyed reading it!!
I always wonder, what society would be like If Apollo was never purged, great video
Completely unrelated but I've always wanted to see different areas of the world in Hzd. Like India, Africa, Japan and China. Those artificial life facilities can't only have been built in America. If there is life outside of the horizon areas we know of. I wanna see it.
Speaking of those places, I wonder how much of Japan might be under water in the HZD universe
@@bj0rnen I imagine most or all of the now-populated areas of Japan would look like San Francisco in Forbidden West.
@@bj0rnen damn most of it is probably under water. And the cities are floating on top of it supported by metal beams
There is! If you watch Dr. Sobecks hologram introduction to GAIA, it includes a map of planned Cradle facilities around the world. The images flash too fast but if you pause on a RUclips video, the locations include France, Russia, India, China, Greenland, Afghanistan. It’s unclear how many Cradle facilities were completed in time.
@@eden20111 The one in Xinxiang province is Eleuthia-1. Eleuthia-2 is in Mozambique, I think. Since Eleuthia-9 was located at one of the last places in the world to go (not sure how long South America held out for), there's probably only 9 or 10. Since you named off six locations, you probably found most of them! Personal theory: I think Sylens is descended from people from the Greenland facility (Eleuthia-8)?
Its said in the game that Apollo is with the Zeniths along with two other sub functions
Ever since we speculated about there possibly being an archive of Apollo still and being able to restore it, I’ve been so interested in the idea of Guerilla adding that to HFW or the sequel after that if we get one. Just imagine what the characters could become and what they could do if they are able to learn from Apollo. The rest of the world would finally know what happened to the Old Ones and the amazing things they accomplished, but most importantly, they’d learn to not make the same mistakes they did, like the Eclipse were beginning to do.
You are so knowledgeable about HZD that it’s mindblowing. I can just imagine a HZD dev watching this video and laughing to themselves because you picked up on their Easter eggs. Can’t wait to return to this video next year after HFW gets released!!
I have completed Horizon Zero Dawn (main campaign) over the last weekend and now I am playing through the DLC, Frozen Wilds. I think I will stick around and watch this channel.
I believe it's highly possible to bring Apollo back online. While Ted did indeed have a tight grip on ZD and Gaia as a project, it's mentioned multiple times that Elizabet knew how to deal with him and what he was like/capable of, so I doubt she left any loose ends when it came to rank clearance for ted. (Basically I doubt he actually got rid of every copy with omega clearance). Even in the audio files we find in the facility, ted sounds manic and not mentally focused. could he ahave really pulled off such a task in his state of mind? Plus, when aloy enters the cradle, the system merely states Apollo as offline, not corrupted or deleted or worse, and HZ as a game/world is quite finicky with its wording. This hints towards a 'dormant' state. And as mentioned, Apollo's symbol during Gaia's dying wish is very much bright and 'alive'. And as many people before have already pointed out, it's odd at how ted kills the alphas. The motive is very shady and almost seems like he knew he didn't actually delete Apollo and it was very much possible for the Alphas to reverse the damage.
All in all, it'd be pretty cool to be able to get apollo back and then fully restore gaia (as an end game goal). But we can only wait and see what GG do with HFW and the horizon trilogy
Something that occurred to me is that even if Apollo is destroyed, with Gaia’s restoration, Aloy and Gaia may be able to tweak some of Gaia’s “high level protocols” and permit her to interact with humanity, to share at least what she knows. Could be an interesting middle choice between complete rebuilding of human knowledge and “here, this is how this works”
Hello sir,
I've got a question
Remember when we do "A moment's peace" side quest, we have to look for an unknown signal on the mountain and we see a device (similar to a horus face/transmitter) that the oserams are digging out,that device kept the machines friendly towards humans,my speculation is that it is a subfunction code shackle or whatever u may call it,
What do you think it may be ? And can you make a video on speculating on which subfunctions have gone rogue and which is still normal? anyways can ya tell me what really that device is that kept the machines friendly in the side quest?.
I believe that it's heavily implied if not even confirmed in the lore that it was a fragment of gaia that was ejected by the explosion.
My guess is that it was equipment from GAIA Prime, that got ejected from the mountain when it exploded. If I remember correctly, a Focus scan indicates something about it being either 19 or 20 years old, putting it in the range of GAIA's self destruction
You can ask CYAN about it in FW
@@oldladywinchester what does cyan respond? We really need a moments peace lore video and theories!
To echo the above responses, it looks like CYAN's mainframe housing, so I assume it was GAIA's housing that had been launched across the Rockies by the explosion.
In summary, Ted was just a giant egoistical maniac that didn't want the future to know that it was his wrongdoings that ruined the world.
hey man, i'm a huge fan of this masterpiece, 700 hours in, 12.000+ rare mod accumulated, all the weapons are max out, i read every documents, i listened to every recording, i discovered every inch in the game, the sad part that my friends doesn't play video games so i feel like no one can undrestand my passion for Horizon, until i discovered your channel a few weeks ago, and gotta tell you thank you so much for your content, to think that in this planet there is a guy who shares the same passion with me over this game is just heart warming so again thank you, can't wait for your futur uploads.
For some reason I thought odyssey was that fallen ship in the desert with tallneck around it. It had 2 far zenith audios on it
If odyssey failed in earth orbit, there would be no mystery as to its fate, if it failed on an interplanetary/interstellar trajectory, then its unlikely anything would've survived reentry into earth's atmosphere
@@saturn5mtw567 the info we get is that odyssey is lost. But dont say where or how. So anything can apply to this, both it fell somewhere on earth or was lost in space.
But the fact that we have a fallen space thing on the desert, and it have 2 farzenith audios on it made me assume that was odyssey.
@@lissapesci we can still eliminate scenarios that are implausible. If the ship were still in earth orbit when it failed, even an amateur astronomers telescope would be sufficient to determine it's fate.
@@saturn5mtw567 but if we have no info on someone stating this not the case we cant assume it isnt the case
@@lissapesci I'm basing this off of the assumption that amateur telescopes in this future would be as good if not better than current ones, unless that is not the case its a safe assumption that anything non-stealth in earth orbit would be noticed
Glad to see a new post from you RSQ.
I’m really excited to learn how the wider story/lore is woven into HFW and to pick up new parts to it.
There was a conversation between alpha's recovered that said that Ted did not understand the functions. I wonder if this is an indication that he did not succeed.
the last part in your video where you show the panting on the wall, where in Devil's grief is that
oh. like you, i'm more likely to take the lore at face value when it comes to the odyssey and i thought those falling stars were more to do with the blight or even other sub-functions since that's exactly how hades looked when he flew across the sky. but those parallels with the stars in the trailer, the logo, and the mural really gives me something to think about
Alternate Title: Restoring History so Ted’s Nightmare of being remembered for being the greatest dunce ever can happen
Don’t forget Sylus said that HADES taught him bout physics and calculus. The sub functions would have had to share info as well make machines. Maybe not all the knowledge is in HADES but some is
and CYAN was also quite aware of knowledge far beyond her scope of authority as well, and with the restraints on her programming lifted has probably been teaching the Banuk all sorts of things to increase their knowledge base. The difference was that APOLLO was meant to impart knowledge in a particular way to children without the help of adult teachers- through gamification, as the creator put it- to maximize the retention and understanding of that knowledge at different intellectual development levels. Hell, Aloy managed to access enough data via the Focus in a fairly small region of Colorado and Utah that she pieced together a great deal about the past, so if she went lore-hunting through databases and data spikes she could rebuild a fair amount of knowledge. APOLLO was supposed to be able to impart that knowledge to newly-hatched kiddos, but now there are generations of adults able to help teach. The problem that the knowledge of the Old Ones now faces is the preconceptions, superstitions, and prejudices of 31st century tribal humanity.
Love a sunday for rsq videos
Man, I appreciate your videos so much. Even after all these years I still play HZD, sometimes, just to be in that world. I hope The Forbidden West won’t be delayed too long.
Btw, Ted recommending Elisabet to create an override both helped and destroyed the world. Funny
Just a thought - I find it likely that Ted Faro decided to destroy Apollo's archival data using temperature regulation sabotage - it's straightforward and very effective. I think it is considerably more likely than any other mechanism for data destruction as it requires very little knowledge for it to be both effective and *reliable* . It probably consisted of simply disabling the power supply for the cryocoolers.
However!
If even just one of these storage facilities was in an Arctic or otherwise very cold location, it may well still be viable, even without active regulation. I'm not sure what information exists regarding the climate conditions of when this sabotage event occurred and the intervening time up to 'present day' within the setting, but I imagine there have to have been at least SOME with the required characteristics for this natural cooling theory to be viable.
don't forget two things- 1, the Eleuthia cradle Aloy came from in Cheyenne Mountain still held viable genetic material to be able to hatch her a thousand years later, and the other cradles still held viable zygotes four centuries after Faro's egomaniac tantrum. If even some of the fossils were stored in the same place he couldn't wipe them out without killing the zygotes. 2, similar to what you suggest, as seen in The Frozen Wilds the world is in the midst of a mini-Ice Age akin to what happened several centuries ago, and places that would've been temperate in northern American/Canadian regions are now ice-locked, which would've preserved the material. This likely happened very quickly without the thermaldynamics caused by living organisms and may have happened fast enough to preserve some of the northern-most fossils.
truly glad that Iwent into every little detail when I played it, these videos touch on the best story ever told with further explanations, I.JUST.LOVE.IT
Here is the theory : Odysey was in fact destroyed, but not completely. Part of the ship, containing computer core, auxiliary power and comm systems survived. It entered irregular orbit around the sun, and after 1000 years it came close enough to Earth to send transmission. And containing all the knowledge of humanity, Appolo would also contain knowlege on how to program AI.
Oh yes the Odyssey laugh in Far Zenith
Here's my personal theory: I think Faro was a key part of the Far Zenith project and placed a clone of himself on board. I think he destroyed Apollo so no one would know it was him in the future being the man that he was. I think his clone sent the signal for hades to destroy the planet so Gaia would have to start again and before the humans from the cradle facilities would be born and released he could descend and rule the planet with his advanced society from the Odyssey. That being said, we all know the Sobeck was a genius of genius'. I think she accounted for all of this in some and hid some kind of system to counter all of this. Like a fresh copy of Gaia and her sub functions or something similar. I would love at the end of the Horizon journey, if my theory is true, is to have this Faro clone with Aloy watching a pre-recorded message from Sobeck saying that she anticipated Faro's hubris and put this counter plan in place. I would find that very satisfying.
Nice I liked it a lot, I can’t wait for the game
DNA is incredibly stable storage media. Though it does degrade overtime. Storing it at -18'C, without any DNase enzymes present, and protected from radiation with both physical and a digital backup. Even if Faro destroyed the samples by tampering with the storage temp, Aloy may be able to piece together the complete DNA sequence to complete Apollo from multiple copies like how we can complete the DNA sequence of ancient species using multiple samples.
Something i haven't seen discussed much is that Gaia was functional but not complete. The alphas had planned on doing more work in the bunker but Ted killed them before it could be completed. So Gaia, while functioning, was not at 100%, that must have consequences, right? I think the damage that Ted did by killing the alphas was therefore more extensive than just purging Apollo. Some things were left incomplete that would let Gaia run smoothly. like a machine that works, but its a bit bumpy or maybe even glitchy at times. i think this is gonna come back at some point
Okay, this is the GOAT for HZD and HFW lore...
The game says that the odyssey lost telemetry and there was catastrophic failure. Could it be that the odyssey went thru a wormhole bringing the ship to present day and that could be what woke up hades? Maybe the ship was trying to contact earth but they had no contact. Maybe they found Gaia and thats what set the first game in motion and now there going to land on earth and try to figure out what happened and probably thats how aloy will restore Apollo. Maybe even alot meets a decent from Elizabeth Sobeck family, like a cousin or a siblings. That would be amazing, so she doesn't have to feel lonely or what not. Can't wait for the February to be here, also nice video.
I am sure it is climatic (is this a word) for the developers and 20 writers of this masterpiece to see what people speculate about their well written ideass
This better like heck be the overarching story of all of Horizon Zero Dawn. With something like a very last choice being like... "give humanity all information completely unchanged" or "give humanity a censored version of history that an AI has calculated would less likely lead to war/prejudice, etc." with Alloy choosing (in the "good" ending) to release the information unhindered--but the whole third game making the tempting case to alter the information before it's broadcasted for the sake of peace.
Here is a question: Would the habitants of Aloy's world WANT the knowledge of the Old Ones? After all, it would mean losing their new History and Cultures and most probably make the world they have fought so hard to create disappear in a very short amount of time. We, (us living today), see Apollo's disappearance as a huge loss, and so does Silens, who, in my view, represents our current society with quite a few of its flaws. Aloy does not seem that keen on restoring Apollo, she just wants to save the world she lives in, and, from what I gather, as it is in the 31st century. I think there is an undercuring ideoligical fight in HZD and Forbidden West: Aloy's "humans come first" against Silens's "knowledge comes first", at whatever the cost.
I agree! I see it more on "Aloy: emotions" and "Sylens: rationality". A development that I would like would be that in some ways they could work together to build a new humanity, that like us is composed by both emotion and mind.
@@marcogubert Funny, I see Aloy as very rational due to her natural genius but tempered with a humanitarian side more than an emotional one. Silens, also a genius, does not possess this, as it is shown several times during HZD. He's like the one track mind scientist that disregards everything except his/her persuit, regardless of the consequences.
@@sweets6259 This is exactly what I think, above I was only highlighting her emotional side (which in my opinion is linked with her humanitarian one; he helps other people because of his past as an outcast), as I see this aspect more prominent than her genius. However I think also that she has a great mind compared to the other ones (probably because she's a genetic clone of Elisabet) Sobeck). What I said before wasn't exactly my thought. My bad
@@marcogubert don't worry! I know how hard it can be to convey our thoughts through writing comments! I've had my fair share of "misunderstandings" writing comments before! LOL I'm glad that we are on the same page regarding these 2 fascinating characters. Oh! And what do you think of this? I think that Silens, because of his sense of superiority, if he were to get his hands on Apollo, or the knowledge of the "Masters" could be the grand villain or the great betrayer. "Grand Villain" as in someone hogging all the knowledge of Apollo and changing the world to suit himself, therfore becoming a sort of living God that looks upon his lowly worshipers, or the "Great Betrayer" giving the "Masters" access to the world of HZD probalby by giving them Aloy who is a "Master key" of the Gaia system, if he can become one of them ang gain their knowledge. That would also still follow the superiority complex trope.
@@sweets6259 haha, you're so nice😊 Yes, this is really an interesting idea for the plot of HFW. We'll see in the future (hopefully, next future) what the devs came up with for Aloy and Sylens
5:57 Wait but I think that it was mentioned by the double agent zenith that Apollo was stored on the Odyssey (last I played HFW was half a year ago so yeah)
There is also the possibility that with Apollo and other sub functions becoming self aware, Apollo might get discovered by Aloy and it asks her for her help to restore (at least partially) the wiped data. We could assume through degradation much information is unrecoverable.
Wow. You do great work on these videos man. Lots of research. Well done
still holding on to the notion that the Odyssey survived and thrived somewhere else (another planet?) for a thousand years so they have advanced technology and are responsible for the signal that unshackled the AI. It would be a huge treasure trove of a 1000 years lore of an advanced space-faring culture. They would probably have to be at least a temporary antagonist, perhaps they are divided themselves and a faction wants to help, and other faction wants to destroy, etc. I don't want Sylens to be the main antagonist. He should be given a redemption arc. I say Hades gets loose again somehow only for Aloy to put him down again, this time permanently, making Sylens realize he keeps fucking up and start to make amends.
I like the theory with the divided factions of the Odyssey factions im going to completley soeculate here but maybe Sylens is working for the Odysseys descendants rebel faction
they could have promised him power or something along those lines
The Odyssey references in the game and its references to "alfa version of apollo" plus ted wiping out the apollo data, its placed in the history of the game in a way that if it isn't that the way of recovering the data... by finding the remains of odyssey space ship and recovering it's data like a "black box" from a plane, it would not have been introduced in the game history in the first place... the whole "alfa version of apollo" in the data points it's a little bit forced for me if it isn't part of the solution.... "Apollo" = space ship = odyssey = recovering lost arc, i hope it is and loved your video, the mug and trailer really sells it aswell, getting it the strongest theory and the most satisfying, in "game design story thinking"
I haven't been this hyped for a sequel in a very long time. Horizon is my favorite post-apocalyptic setting. ^_^
I'm glad that someone else noticed the connection with the three red streaks and the Odyssey. Honestly I think that the Odyssey never had any issues at all when launching. I think the telemetry regarding an explosion was somehow altered to draw attention away from them. We know from the in game codex that Far Zenith was a pretty shady group. I think that they faked an explosion and then put themselves into some sort of cryogenic stasis. The idea of cryogenic stasis is at least mentioned by Sylens at one point. Also, the alpha that was in charge of the Eleuthia chambers mentioned that Far Zenith's technology, which they were using for the chambers, was far more advanced than he thought it would be. Also, if Far Zenith was made up of the world's richest people, then Faro was probably part of it. They probably wanted Faro to purge Apollo. Then they could return to Earth much later and rule over the primitive human population. And with their own copy of Apollo and all its knowledge, they would seem like gods in comparison. However, I'm curious as to whether or not they were the ones who sent the signal to free Hades. I thought at first that they did, but if Hades kills everything, then there is no one left to worship the Far Zenith people.
I'm pretty sure we'll hear from Homer (aka Apollo 0.6) again, which was stored on the Odyseey (or how I like to call it "Chekhov's Space Ark").
It may have had a real malfunction, and crashed on earth, or went into a orbit which will bring it near enough to earth to access the data onboard.
This ties in nicely with Sylens' ruthless quest for knowledge as well and may be what he's after in HFW.
Why not a combination of all of the above? They all seem just as likely. And Aloy is smart, so I wouldn't be surprised if she comes up with these possibilities based on the datapoints she collects.
Aloy finds a working iPad...
"Brazzers? What's that?"
yay new random side quest video!!! i’ve been slowly watching all your videos :D
Best channel hands down for HZD and future HFW lore content!
I’ve always wondered if the fate of the Odyssey was somehow tied with the signal that woke up Hades…
Just what I needed while waiting for "Forbidden West"! 😁
in my opinion, the 3 red streaks are likely connected to what happens to the environment. I doubt that Apollo (and by extension, the Odyssey) are going to be the focus of Forbidden West when we already have such an obvious threat. the blight is clearly some kind of plant and the only thing that should be advanced enough to produce it is Demeter. same about the Storms. I suspect those are caused by Aether. considering that both vegetation/soil and air are acting up, it seems fitting that there is also something wrong with the water even if we haven't seen it yet. since our primary objective is restoring Gaia now, it makes sense that we would find a few of her subordinate functions this time. I believe that's going to be Demeter and Aether and possibly Poseidon, but since we haven't seen anything related to the water yet, it could be that Poseidon isn't actually in the game this time but I wouldn't be surprised if he was in a game expansion later on, like with Hephaestus in the Frozen Wilds. there is probably a bit more going on here too, because these sub-functions shouldn't have any motivation to harm humans. maybe Hades is acting through them somehow.
I keep thinking to myself: What kind of idiot would store data in a system susceptible to organic decay that requires constant cooling to -18° without creating a backup copy on a more durable medium? That method is less durable and more likely to fail even without tampering than a bloody dvd.
I was thinking this too. In fossils, organic matter has been replaced by minerals, which would not require any sort temperature control. I don't think any of the natural fossilization processes would preserve detail down to the molecular/DNA level. However these are synthetic fossils, so who knows.
In the HFW datapoint World #2 Eyes to the Heavens, the message reads “-November Special! We’re getting ready for our 2059 Annual viewing of the abandoned Odyssey spacecraft as it follows its orbital path above the Western Grand Array”. How can this be if the Odyssey never in fact blew up? Is this an early version that was scrapped and launched into orbit for some reason?
CYAN also possesses ancient knowledge and a willingness to communicate
I'm convinced that apollo crashed back down to Earth on one of those ships or a big escape pod. I bet there's gonna be a crater with a ship in it with a door where only Aloy's DNA could access it
I love your videos. You find and educate us on lore that builds this amazing world.
SO, happy people are digging into the lore of this game!
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There is a copy of Apollo in the Zenith's ship oddessey the ship is in earth's orbit and we just need to get it from there and merge it with Gaia
Ted faro wasn't aware of that particular copy and was unable to delete it because it was off planet
So far the only two who knew about it were elisabet and Tilda.
I also imagine the ways apolonsecretly survived was the fossils in a parts of the world and maybe Apollo archives were transferred to 6 cradles in the world,(maybe the only cradles to get Apollo and one with a sentient Apollo ai and thus the only few advanced cities on earth hidden from the world with the access to the knowledge and only advanced places left like maybe Atlanta, Tokyo, etc and a secret city made by vast silver,etc
Also maybe mars is secretly thriving tooo
looking at that mural of the falling stars behind All-Mother Mountain has me thinking that if we are to recover anything from that site, it would be far to the south of the mountain. given that the Nora settlement is at the southern end of the map
My hope is the restoring of Apollo too, tat would be cool, teds actions were always unjust, and all knowledge is secured and to be archived and restored, even books,files,etc
It would be cool if in some datapoints in the new forbidden west game, they mention references to the corona virus waves we're going through now. An addition to the pre-Faro plague catastrophes!
Maybe someone saying "nah we're not just gonna fall in another plague like this"
A "catastrophe" that has only killed 0.05% of the world's population? Pretty lame as far as catastrophies go. By comparison, the Spanish Flu in 1918 killed 2.7% of the world population. World War II killed 3.1% of the world's population.
It would be super cool if Apollo could be brought back, it could mean the start of something similar to what the galactic encyclopedia in Terminus (and especially its scientific enclave) started in the Foundation saga of Asimov books. A safe haven for knowledge from which to gradually and slowly light again the spark of technological civilization so that the period of "barbarism" is shortened by a lot. I believe if Aloy restored Apollo, it would still take time (decades and perhaps even a couple of centuries) for the tribal societies of Horizon's world to fully be able to use its knowledge and adapt their cultures enough to even just be able to accept such knowledge, but even a period of adaptation o say 2-3 centuries would still be a LOT shorter than the time these societies would require to reach that level of knowledge by themselves
One thing I haven't seen you or anyone else address is that Travis SPECIFICALLY says Gaia can fake telemetry data. If that's true, then we have to assume others can fake telemetry data as well. It seems a VERY specific skill for him to mention, esp. given the fact that the only other time telemetry data is really important in the story is in the destruction of Project Odyssey. All we have to go on is the telemetry data, which we are expressly told, in reference to Gaia, can be faked. I'm a professional and published writer. That kind of detail, and the layers they went into about the background on the alpha version of Apollo, aren't usually employed unless you plan for it to pay off somehow. There are a LOT of Chekov's Guns in relation to Apollo, Project Odyssey and Far Zenith for it to just be colorful background.
[GHST/GHST(s): * "This place is amazing. It's bigger than the Archives in Old Accra." * ] - [half-jokingly guessed of which place should this supposedly survived piece of another APOLLO should be (02:43)]
It is a shame this state of an alternative Humanity is only 'GA' era a bit on their locked Earth.
Imagine if the [O] Blinked into that verse area.
You know by the nature that Hades was able to teach things to our favorite guy off screen, like mathematics and other topics to him to further its goals means the synthetic fossils and the drivers to read them are still there. Might be all the support AIs like Hades are able to use them but only in the limited ability they where made for. Hades had to trade knowledge for access the build out of the focus network for its goal of ending all life. I bet the others can also access them. Its just none of them are teachers like Apollo.
Always great content with masterful delivery thanx brother keep it coming!
SPOILERS FOR FORBIDDEN WEST
Now that they got APOLLO (or at least an alpha build of it) reconnected to GAIA, once they get over their initial shock and awe, imagine the potential hyperacceleration of technology the tribes will undergo as they gear up for NEMESIS.
if the theory of V.S and Theodore actually doing it at the same time of that purging....
Excellent vid Chilly, I didn't notice that the same 3 red "stars" are also on the mug :) Very interesting.
When faro destroyed the Apollo database I don't think the cradles were built or operating yet. And were at best in a deactivated state to hide from the faro swarm.
I hope the details of the other sub functions are stored in the Apollo Archive. It could be a huge help to Beta and Sylens in the 3rd installment
Maybe the Odyssey's black box somehow returned, heck if we’re including the Silver theory, maybe Silver tried hitching a ride on the odyssey to escape the Faro plague, but either something went wrong because of pure bad luck, or it did the math and figured out when to sabotage the ship so that it/part of it would land back on earth after the Faro bots were shut down.
I wonder about what would happen if Apollo was restored, and the information made available. it would be completely life changing like complete culture shock. i'm willing to bet that the only tribe out of the ones we've seen so far willing to accept Apollo's knowledge would be the Oseram as they are the most open minded in my opinion.
i'm convinced Sylens has something to do with Apollo. Maybe he was created off of the DNA of Samina Ebadji. But his crave for knowledge is too suspicious.
Must admit, I too have wondered about his seemingly advanced intellect and understanding, but I don’t think he can be a clone. In the main quest ‘Deep Secrets of the Earth’, Sylens confirmed that he was born of a woman (when Aloy reacts to discovering that she was the product of a machine). That means Sylens was the son of someone who’s ancestors were the first to emerge from a cradle facility, centuries before. Equally, Sylens mentions that he had spent ‘decades’ delving into the ruins in search of answers, which means he was born long before the present ‘derangement’ which prompted Gaia to initiate Aloy’s creation, so there would have been no need to create a clone back then. Still all very intriguing and enjoyable. 👍
I mean... the thing he has to do with it is that it's effectively the complete embodiment of everything he wants; all lost knowledge and the power it represents in one place where he can learn from it and figure out how to apply it.
If Apollo were to be restored in either Forbidden West or another future sequel, it would be interesting to see how the different tribes respond to revelations of how the world was and what they believe in within their tribes and religious customs is in fact false.
You are so close despite The Odyssey having nothing to do with these red stars or asteroids or whatever they're supposed to depict
One Option to store the Data in DNA would be to create an actual organism holding the information inside it's DNA. This is actually more realistic than it seems to be. By splitting the information into chunks it's possible to prevent actual protein biosynthesis. This information pieces are called introns and are an ordinary part of the DNA. Furthermore redundancy could be applied in addition the double strand redundancy. These Apollo-introns could filled with a lot of intron like sequences, which makes the chance of data loss even lower.
The best thing about it: DNA in an organism is self replicating. The genome inside one organism is pretty stable within it's lifespan. So if a species with a long life (e.g. some tree) would have been chosen only a hand full of generations would have passed till the 31st century.
Propably Demeter would be accountable of "storing" the information in one or more organisms and Gaia might know how to restore it from there.
I guess one point of the whole HZD plot is that Gaia was condemned to do nothing and just continue her work. Rebuilding the system core might free Gaia from her "high level directives" that forbid her to communicate directly to the people. After that she might be able/allowed to restore Apollo as I described.
So we are asuming that Elizabeth Sobek one of the bightest minds and someone who knew Ted Faro fairly well did not think of keeping backups disconnected from the network of the zero dawn project?
I mean lets assume the systems get somewhat corrupted then having a separate database outside the grid would be a smart choice in order to avoid a total loss and then having backups of those backups would be the smartest.
Well see how it plays out, but maybe they will go to the "lets allow the past to rest and byild our own future" kinda route.
I'm guessing Forbidden West will have you go to different storage faculties to try and get pieces of whatever might have survived and gather whats survived in one place to restore Apollo Fully!
How would Apollo be able to educate them without them having access to the education facilities?
I mean Eluthia-9 is still around
Horizon Zero Dawn is so underrated it hurts... Can't wait for a faithful film adaptation, like Sonic the Hedgehog.🤘
this game was one of the best i have ever played, i was happy when it was announced we are getting a sequel
I'm super Excited for Horizon Forbidden West!
Very close, to what the story was intended to be, the 3 flares in the sky was supposed to be hades released by silence once he understands the hole thing, yes the space ship had a copy of apolo, but without the Gaia control, they change it over the years. The space ship was the reason hades revel, but ades doesn't intends to restart everything, just wants to restart apolo and Gaia, Odyssey apolo version is the reason, Gaia had to die, only Hephaestus can repare Gaia by force with hades or agreeing. Odyssey apolo is the most important thing.
Surely all the info stored in Apollo was saved somewhere OUTSIDE Apollo. People are always told to store important data on drives outside their computer, such as flash drives, external drives, the cloud, etc, so I don't see why the Zero Dawn team didn't go "huh, we should save a copy of everything outside Apollo."
They probably have incomplete copies of Apollo everywhere. But the complete version is probably destroyed, but that means there would be information loss that was added in late... The project is massive. Also more information loss from those thousands of years outside the safe...
Based on what Faro said, I would reason from his statement that he wiped Apollo, not the knowledge. Without the Apollo program to access the data, the data storage would just sit there and remain unused.
If I had to guess, we'll be picking through the remains of the crashed ship for however much of the archive remains.
I hope the plot will be that Far Zenith utilized vast silver as a ready to go AI, likely tried to utilize it as an ship AI to control things like auto pilot, But combine the ever so actually depressed vast Silver with the Data bank of Homer and fear could lead to anger and anger, anger at the beings that caused this catastrophe, he is the only one who could've activated Hades and send the other functions in dissaray
I went through a lot of your stuff and something about the death cults struck me. It makes me think what if Vast Silver by some means was behind these cults? Like HADES behind Eclipse who sought destruction same for these under VAST SILVER? Who eventually took over Faro Swarm as it was the only likely candidate who could overpower such advanced technology and thus bring forth destruction of the world and now in the new world tries to do the same through the Supercell storms and Red blight as we know VAST SILVER was an AI related to terraforming, meterology and just had one aim that is the make Earth a better place
Thus it's likely it ended up considering humans as the enemy to the nature and thus trying to get rid of them which would explain the storms and stuff which was in order to destabilize the Earth thus creating adverse conditions which would trigger HADES to reset the Earth but as GAIA wouldn't allow that to happen thus the mysterious signal which allowed all the systems to roam free and thus allowing HADES to do what VAST SILVER wanted that is a world without humans who would do the same as the ones before them which would make sense considering the statement that it was fear which made VAST SILVER run away and thus if she acted out of fear then it's logical that the fear might be towards humans destroying the Earth again or continue to do so. This could mean the end battle would be between VAST SILVER, a embodiment of nature that wants to destroy humans for the wrongdoings Vs GAIA who is an embodiment of nature but loves all life alike and knows humans must be protected at any cost.
And so that's my theory!