Lore of Horizon Forbidden West: Ancient Knowledge
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- With Apollo in our grasp, how will the tribes of Horizon react to the ancient secrets hidden within? Join us as we explore the potential ramifications this will have on the future Horizon Forbidden West and beyond!
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Your videos give me that sweet feeling I had when I first played ZD.
Calming Music, beautiful scenery, and reading lost (sometimes heartbreaking) messages.
That feeling of putting a puzzle together when your a child .
Hope that doesn't sound weird
Not at all, glad you enjoy it 😁
Same!
I'm a simple man. I see a new Random Side Quest video, I click like.
Thank you 👍
Same! I dropped everything!🎉🎉🎉
Another man of culture I see. 🤝
so do I !!
Yep! The second I saw it, and despite having notices for several other new videos from "favorites", this is the first video I played... 💖
Well in regards to the Utaru is is hard to see the Chorus retaining much power in the face of change unless they adapt to it. Their failure of their people was massive during HFW, their policy was for their people to simply roll over and die. With Zo being the one to repair the Land Gods it is likely that the Utaru will look to her for leadership over the Chorus, especially with the people knowing that one of the Chorus resorted to murdering another potential member in order to keep her power to enforce the 'roll over and die' policy.
I'm not saying that Zo would 'seize power' but it is likely that people in general will grant her more trust than their _current_ leaders.
She's already a strong leader. I bet she would step into that role gracefully.
Truth!
I hope part of Horizon 3 will be Aloy actually heading up to the Odyssey herself to unlock and retrieve the APOLLO database. Because Aloy...IN SPAAAAAACE!
I thought that Apollo was already merged. There were only two sub functions not merged at the end of the game. Heph and Ares.
Pretty sure you can find a Data Point in the 'Burning Shores' DLC (in Tilda's Mansion I think - Sylens long-gone at that point), which implies that Sylens intends to, or will have by the end, visited the Odyssey to do just that.
I feel that the nora would be more accepting of the knowledge if it is presented under a religious gaze. Like if Aloy described the knowledge as a gift from all mother to her followers, like how a mother passes down wisdom of years long gone, they would be more accepting of it.
If Gaia is presented to the Nora as All Mother, a not too difficult leap, then they could be brought along by Aloy
I'm currently doing my new Forbidden West playthrough on Ultra Hard and i was actually thinking about your channel yesterday, so nice to see you back.
I do wonder what the Tenakh would think of General Herres' final message, this military leader that led the largest war humanity has ever faced, hoping that there is no need for people like him in the future.
Also god I just really love this world. So many unique cultures and societies came about. It makes the world actually feel ALIVE, like things actually happened between the end of the world and when you come about. Things didn't just stagnate. I also would love to see what this world would look like once it's technology reaches levels of the Old Ones. It would make for such an interesting but weird world compared to our own.
Gotta say that I 100% agree that the Quen would, despite their relative cultural familiarity with pre-Z day technology, be among the worst when it comes to accepting the ancient truth and knowledge of the Old Ones. I’d even go so far as to say there’s even a good chance that it would have the most disastrous consequences in the effort and fight against NEMESIS. The Quen, not unlike the Carja, have built a mythos of exceptionalism about their tribe. When the Quen elite learn that the practically ‘divinely ordained’ structure they have crafted to give themselves unchecked power over many, many people is built on nothing but lies, what exactly have we seen of them so far gives us the idea that they won’t try to stamp these heretical beliefs out - cosmically and existentially life threatening for our world or no?
Bingo! And I would add that the Quen elites _already know_ their power sits on a pack of lies. That's exactly why they suppress "forbidden knowledge." Apollo won't be any kind of revelation, but a seismic shift in access to that forbidden knowledge.
And I hadn't thought about the Quen elites betraying Earth to Nemesis, but now I'm starting to suspect Quen alliance with Nemesis could be a key plot point (deliberately created by the storywriters.)
It would align - I believe the Quen elites see themselves as peers to the Zeniths.
Technically it's not even really lies as they only have access to knowledge up to a certain point in history so their perception is more simply distorted due to not having the most up to date information. But I do agree with you that they would react incredibly badly not only to the up to date information on their gods but also that Aloy would be trying to spread this information out to the rest of the population who wouldn't normally have access to any knowledge whatsoever
Every time i watch a new video from you i feel the urge to play the game again.....and again.
I think that the trick to sharing APOLLO with everyone is to basically meet people where they are. New learning requires new thinking. :D
I don't think there's going to be any problem with the Nora, since they trust Aloy now, they can fully embrace whatever knowledge they received from Apollo.
Eh, not necessarily. The Nora's trust in Aloy is founded on the fragile belief that she is the annointed champion of their deity. If at any point they are given cause to question that belief or Aloy fails to live up to their ideal of her, that trust will likely unravel.
This is made all the more likely by the fact that, even to this day, Aloy still resents the Nora and does not really recognize them as "her" people.
@@kktallman6257Nevertheless, the learning center in Euluthia 9 is the only intact teaching facility for the Apollo archive in the known world. And Aloy and Gaia have the sole access to allow entry. No one in what remains of the Nora tribe would gainsay her if she said it was Gaia's will, which it is. Just seeing the Gaia hologram would seal the deal.
There is one massive gamechanger for Nora though. Aloy.
She became something of a religious figure among Nora mostly against her will, but even then tribe leaders might see Aloy's quest as sacred to them and thus they might be willing to take knowledge from Apolo. Especially if it, in their way, was given directly from the All-Mother, Eulethia. So if it was Aloy who would be the one who would nudge Nora to learn, there might be a very interesting change in their belief, although all the knowledge they learn has to come directly from Eulethia-9 facility.
Aloy isn't "something of a religious figure" she's seen as essentially a demigod.
I often forget how complex each society has become and how cultural diverse is the Horizon world, I'm always be like: LET'S KILLL A DINOSOUR ROBOT!
Je pense que cela pourrait être une Renaissance, comme au XVème siècle. Apollo database est en quelque sorte la connaissance des Grecs redécouverte par l'Europe. Il est aussi intéressant de voir comment Cyan va communiquer avec les Banuks du Cut. Enfin, tout cela doit être mis en perspective avec l'arrivée de Némésis, les nouveaux détenteurs du savoir d'Apollo (Aloy and friends) devront distiller ces connaissances tout en préparant le combat futur... Tâche difficile s'il en est...
Given your extensive knowledge on the series, would you ever consider penning a Horizon Novelization? I would love to relive these games as a book with all the lore tied in.
If Guerrilla ever wanted to do something like this, I'd gladly collaborate 😁
Instant click as always! I’ll take all of this you got!
Appreciate it! 😁
This is exactly the sort of situation I find myself daydreaming about, so I was so excited to see you were thinking the same! I think all of these are very interesting and closely accurate to what might happen should APOLLO be open to the world again.
My gosh, Chili! Your discussions concerning the lore and characters of the world of Horizon are always and awesomely thought-provoking!
My own suspicion is that, with the reintroduction of Apollo's knowledge, many of the various tribes' individuals will find themselves rearranging and splitting off into those who want the knowledge that Apollo can offer, and those who do not. The likelihood of these "Apollo" followers from these tribes gathering together and becoming more and more homogeneous, to the point of becoming a tribe unto themselves, seems not just likely, but inevitable.
My question is, will this new tribe have the wherewithal to rise above becoming the mess that their ancestors became, while coaxing the "old" tribes, over time, into working with/joining them?
Will they learn of, and assimilate, enough understanding of the mistakes Humanity made in their past to choose NOT to repeat them? Or will the basic humanity, born of Ted's insane choice to make Apollo "unavailable" from the beginning of these humans' reintroduction to Earth, doom them to making the same sorts of mistakes in their own (not-even-as-far-off) future, thus bringing about the same ultimately fatal suffering that their ancestors experienced?
Will the (likely) future leaders of this new "tribe" be able--with the help of Apollo's knowledge--to inform the direction of its members and the remaining "old" tribes in ways that will allow everyone to at least try to fulfill Elizabet's original dream for a New Humanity? Or is it already too late for Apollo's knowledge to prevent them from, well... being "all-too-human"?
Excellent discussion, as always, and, as I said, most thought-provoking.
Thank you, RSQ! ❤
I love your analysis! It's impressive how you can still work out so many aspects. That's the special thing about Horizon, it makes you ponder like no other story. Thank you!
Even if the children of the new world had grown up with Apollo, there's a good chance that after a few generations the knowledge would only have been accessible to certain people in order to suppress others. That's just the way humans are. You can also see this in the Quen, who know at least some things about the old world, but keep a few things to themselves and are therefore not much more developed than the other tribes. Now that so many new cultures have formed, the knowledge of Apollo could plunge many people into a deep crisis. People who are shaken in their developed traditions and beliefs. Certainly some will open up to the knowledge and learn, but many will also reject it. There could be many civil wars. Between people who accept and welcome the change and those who cannot. Just like today.
RSQ back with another banger of a lore video!!!
0:00 Apollo database - how would it be received?
1:02 Nora - accept or shun and go extinct?
2:35 Banuk - apathetic or eager?
4:05 Carja - Avad (or Itamin) embrace Apollo?
5:43 - Oseram - poised to benefit most?
7:02 - Utaru - centrally positioned, or too politically embroiled?
8:33 - Tenakth - military protection and unity, or fragmentation?
10:10 - Quen empire - collapse or rebellion and renewal?
12:10 - conclusion - knowledge, a double-edged sword
Please paste this into your description! Feel free to change the chapter titles. :)
As always, just love these videos!
Wow... Ted Faro really made this situation a lot more complicated than it needed to be by removing Apollo from the equation in the first place. 🧐
Honestly, I still wonder what the real secret was that caused him to wipe it all. What was the "real reason for the glitch," that Elizabet threatened Ted with at the Faro Tower data point?
I think there's a whole lot more in that than anyone knows.
@@kikijewell2967 Call me crazy, but I think we might be looking too far into that one line. When Elizabet threatened that she would reveal the "true cause of the glitch", I think she just meant that everything that made the Faro Robots so dangerous was implemented on Ted Faro's orders. Once the robots stopped following orders, they became unstoppable. Ted's own greed, hubris and lack of foresight literally killed everyone on Earth and his inability to accept any culpability transformed him into a monster, both inside and out. 🤖
I saw the notification...never clicked so fast!!!! Thanks for the video RSQ!
Your videos are the reason I got in love with these games. Their lore and how complex it is. Rn really eager to play the third installment in the series.
I still like how well thought out, simple and easy to understand your videos are. I'm also amazed that we still find topics to discuss that we have never talked about, even after all these years.
What brilliant timing RSQ.
Just this AM I was thinking about HZD and how I missed news, finds in game and the excitement that builds as we hear the next part of Aloy’s adventure is coming
Reminds me of when I tried adapting the tribes of Horizon into the Mass Effect setting… because that’s just what I do when I have free time on my hands.
This video just reminded me how badly I want that third game 😫🙏🏾😤
and we got that goofy lego game😭
Same! The TV show too!
Man, 31st-century geopolitics is a much needed break from 21st-century geopolitics for my brain.
Hey Chilly always a great day when you upload another banger. Hope you are doing well.
It seems like the Nora are gradually becoming more accepting of old world tech and knowledge. Maybe eventually they will be open to understanding Apollo
Here is a possibility:
There will be some from every tribe that will embrace Apollo and there will be others who reject it. Some, like the Nora, will have a majority of their tribe reject anything from the old world. Others , like the Oseram, will see a majority interested in the "new" technology. This will happen in all the tribes across the land whether or not we have met them yet (there could be more tribes to the east that emerged from other Cradles). I can see a new tribe forming from those who, because they were curious about the new knowledge, were rejected or exiled from their old tribe. This new tribe would probably be heavy with Oseram, Carja, and Quen. They are the most likely to at least investigate this new knowledge. At the very least many of the Quen in North America will be open to new ideas and we have already met some who are not happy with how things are run in their government.
Aloy already has the most important people among the Carja on her side. Avad and Itamen both have some level of hero worship going on and the people of Meridian know very well who saved their city. While this won't guarantee that the people will embrace the new tech wholeheartedly, it will give Aloy and Avad a chance to spread the new knowledge. These Sun Priests are the way too influential opposition, and I believe that Avad may be too afraid or too traditional to go too far in upsetting the apple cart.
The Oseram on the other hand will flock to the Forbidden West to seek out Aloy, her friends, and the new knowledge. The only opposition will be from those Eldermen who see this new knowledge as a threat to their power and influence. As long as they stay in Oseram territory and don't stop those who wish to learn there won't be a serious problem.
In the end I could see a new tribe forming from all of the tribes in the region (including some few Nora). Survival of this new tribe will be tricky since they currently can't move to unoccupied territory or move Gaia herself yet.
My theory is that Aloy will delete the Apollo archive to keep the status quo. She comes to the conclusion that too much knowledge changes the world drastically without knowing what comes next
My personal theory/hope is that Aloy and her allies begin gradually reintroducing knowledge, drip feeding it to people to make sure society has time to adapt to the new knowledge.
Another phenomenal video and narrative HZD & HFW Lore Video by my Fellow Banuk
Survive & prevail nothing else Wisdom 💙💙💙
The Banuk whom resides in the Cut have already a 6 months head start from the rest of the tribes who came from Cradle 9, because of Cyan. I think there is at least already one person who might be willing to learn, the apprentice of Ourea; Naltuk.
Well done Random....well done! Considering the impact of eventual dissemination of the Apollo archive across the various existing tribes...brilliant. As someone who loves the "world" built in the Horizon series...and the richness of the various tribal cultures...it would be hard to see several of them destroyed by what the Alpha's hoped would be the great equalizer (i.e., knowledge). Here's hoping the game devs review THIS video closely and incorporate some of your "what ifs" in the 3rd chapter of the series.
YES!!! It’s been too long! 😎
Beautiful video. I'm myself very excited about GAIA being integrated into the tribal cultures of the Horizon world. This video was a wonderful in-depth look into how different cultures will react to Ancient Knowledge. And this ancient knowledge is so advanced and far removed from most of what they know, that it might as well be alien technology. It's going to be fascinating, and this video is a wonderful 'teaser' for things yet to come.
I feel like the only way the Nora would ever embrace the knowledge stored in the APOLLO database is if Aloy and Gaia give it to them directly: the Nora already view them as sacred, so it would be easy to slowly convince them to accept the truth about the Old Ones. Otherwise, I just don't see them adapting quickly enough to not be left behind.
I'm hoping that Aloy's influence and Varl's willingness to use a focus will help convince the Nora to partake in Apollo.
Yay, new video
Love the effort you put into these videos!
Thank you 😁
Nora: Despite the Taboo views of Old World Technology given that the Appalo Archive is tied to thier sacred deity All-Mother and Aloy holds prophet status with the tribe I think that Taboo decree would be lifted albeit only for Nora that under go "trials" that Aloy and Gaia (who is esstentially the All-Mother.) establish. When it comes to the tech development the Nora would take a fairly conservitive approach and stick to what benifits the ecology and doesn't cause a social disruption.
Banuuk: While I could see Warrecks against the Appalo knowledge I think most will adopt the knowledge becuase like the Nora there is a sacred link, namely the machines of Zero Dawn. The Bannuk are likely to be more consivitive then the Nora and only allowing technology that Gaia (seen as the avatar of the Blue Light.) ever uses.
Carja: I am not concered of the tribe under a fully grown Iteman going full 180 and return to the old ways as there is too many figures who don't want that in his life. So yeah come acess to Appalo the Sundom would enter into a Golden Age. The real question though is what wpuld happen to the religon and goverment?
Osserum: Yeah the tribe would just adot the Appallo Archive in an instant. In fact they would adopt it so much that Osserum cities would be the Slicon Vallies of the new world (literally as the Tribal culture is seems to have elements of capitalism.) and the Ossurum might make the plurality of the Zero Dawn work force.
Uttaru: Honestly from what I can tell the Zero Dawn Tech jives well with tradition and from my understanding of the Chous they generally bring voices of oppossition into the ranks so I don't think there would be a civil strife. The would sit in the convervitive ranks of tech development of course wanting to be careful in not desturbing the melody that Gaia (the composser in the Uttaru's eyes.) has carefully crafted.
Tenakth: I think a new round of clan wars will depend on which wins out, a desire to continue conflict or a temprance and sheathing of the warrior ways. Tech development likely has Hakaru having his Marshels and other loyal to a unified Tribe being given the knowledge (at the insistence of Hakaru.) so that way the Chiefdom has the advantage against any clan sessecionists. And as for who takes over from Chief Hakaru given the importance of trials I would not be suprised if the Chiefdom has one in place and modeled around to being someone that is strong as Hakaru. Tech development would be somewhere moderate as the Tenakth have no views for or against technology just if they serve a purpose benifical to the tribe or not.
Quen: A civil War is certian has no way would the members of Zero Dawn would support in maintaining the autocratic nature of the tribe and so would be smuggling the knowledge to the masses. What the Zero-Dawn back Rebels woud look like I can't be certian.
Excellent breakdown! Thanks for writing all of that!
Right off the bat, Gaia Reborn making a Galaxy Brain guess from Aloy's focus.
The Carja would be the inly tribe we know of fully embracing APOLLO. While the Quen would be at civil war over it due to their ruling empire. The Oseram would embrace the parts of engineering and practical development such as brewing and armory. The tenakth would be selective as well in knowledge of war and defense. With Hekarro he may encourage the tenakth to learn other things. The Utaru may be embracing but I only see the younger generation doing that. The quest with an older chorus member having her apprentice kill a new member due to her having different beliefs shows that the Utaru still have great conflict of ideas. While I feel the Nora and Banuk would reject APOLLO, I feel the Banuk in the cut would be more receptive due to now being taught by the AI that resides there. Can't speak on the tribes in the rest of the world.
Hay man love your videos and I love this game its the first thing I’ve seen Beauty in
once again, great job ! thanks
Make this series an audio playlist on spotify!
Another amazing video, keep up the great work
I'm clearing the cobwebs and blowing away the dust, preparing to make the journey again into this amazing world. Feeling inspired. 😂❤
I love banuks,wish we had more information
I looked forward to seeing what the next Horzion Zero Dawn brings. Will be interesting to see if they go East for the US. Show ancient New York City which can be an interesting place to explore especially for lead-up of Nemesis.
Love your vids! You do a great job of peeling back the layers and looking between the lines to parse new things and make the lore more interesting and consequential that it already seemed at first glance.
That said, I don't think Eagle Canyon UT is where the Carja are at. Was there a data point that implied that? I figured it was somewhere between either Monument Valley National Park (MVNP) and Lake Powell, maybe Canyonlands national park (CNP). I know there's an overlay map that puts it in Eagle Canyon, but I disagree. Meridian is on one of the tall Mesas that implies MVNP or the mesas and canyons of CNP, while still being east/south of both Bryce canon and the lake (whether what used to be lake Powell or a new lake). The Jewel was the only weird thing, with much having to happen in order to get a desert to turn into a jungle, but that oddly enough doesn't bother me. I know many geographical liberties were taken - it's a game after all! - but after driving through Utah and its national parks, they all have their own unique feel.
There's a Vantage Point that implies Eagle Canyon.
@@RandomSideQuest Welp, I stand corrected! Guess I need to do another playthrough...
Great analysis! For all the benefits that could be had by the various tribes, the knowledge of Apollo would bring great chaos instead. Could Horizon 3 include a decision for Aloy on whether to make Apollo available, or let it remain under wraps, in order to spare humanity the bloodshed that could be unleashed upon future generations?
Yay 3rd comment🎉🎉🎉
Your videos are amazing dude
Thank you so much
kindred spirit i was thinking about this yesterday what happens in horizon 4 one of game in 2030's ps 6 one more horizon apollo etc great vid dude
Wake up babe, RSQ dropped a new video
Quen: England survived the translation of the Bible into English; it also later survived the breakaway from Rome in the establishment of the Church of England. The Quen would survive contact with Apollo; without a doubt.
I think Aloy will release information a bit at a time to tribes who are strongly opposed to technology or the old ones. First it will basic knowledge like science, technology things like that. Reveal some history about the old ones but don’t data dump everything at once. What’s going to happen is that with the Nora they will initially keep their beliefs about all mother but switch some things around. Elizabet Sobeck will end up being the all mother who slay the “devil” Faro or something similar. The Nora would just use technology that would fit to their beliefs they might end up similar to the American Amish Who uses some modern technology but not all of it.
About time someone else thought about this too
man I love your videos !
Trible reactions to Apollo data base:
Nora: *TABOO*
Banuk: Meh
Carja: *The Speaker of the Sun has Spoken, lets learn it*. *Reject it, the Speaker of the Sun demands it*
Oseram: Its free real Estate.
Utaru: It is what it is.
Tenakth: AMERICA F### YEAH!
Quen: 🎶 We are the Guards of a new world order, we the soldiers, the Legion of light, fire an flame, all are one. 🎶
Have said it before, but I still question what the benefit (now) is, for the wider world (in the game's present) to have access to the Apollo database moving forward? Apart from further educating a few key people who already have an appreciation of the past (as a result of the story so far) and perhaps to assist GAIA in 'her' ongoing efforts in order to collectively defeat Nemesis and bring the planet's system into stability, I'm not sure why it makes sense to bring all this knowledge to the 'ordinary citizens' (either locally, or world-wide). Had the original ZD planned worked and had not been sabotaged by Ted Faro in the way it was, then that would have made sense, because the aim was to effectively create a new 21st century society, but in the 31st century. All humans on the planet would then have had a similar education and achieved a similar understanding and (presumably) primary belief system. This would not prevent future divergence from that starting point, or the evolution of different belief structures as the years, decades and centuries passed, but the starting point would have been common to all. Now however, several diverse and fragmented societal structures have organically developed independently, all over the planet, in much the same way as they did throughout human history prior to the 'glitch'. So, as I say, what would be the point of 'educating' all those (millions?) of people world-wide to the level originally intended - what are they supposed to do with this knowledge (even if they accepted it in the first place)? My concern, would be that it would likely lead to societal splits and even greater conflict, between those who embrace the new knowledge and (somehow) benefit from it and those who reject it and remain in the (effective) cultural and technological 'backwaters'.
KNOWLEDGE IS POWER!!!
RandomSideQuest
Please do an Video about TVShow Adaptation should be.
With the Quen being so far away, and Apollo having to be "rolled out" in North America just due to where Aloy's group is, i could see the Quen going to war over it. Alva already tried to explain how their military "protects" their knowledge, when they attacked Aloy. Given that their leaders might be literally insane (judging by the CEO), they could stage an invasion, believing it their right alone to have it.
Unfortunately, i really wouldn't be surprised in lots of the tribes going to war over it. Humans are generally terrible.
Can the Quen defeat the tribes of Eleuthia 9 if they were to invade? They barely were able to cross the Pacific already, they have to get past the Tenakth who are the most brutal warriors of all the tribes and are close to the Utaru if they need them. Even if they were to invade, by then, the Tenakth would have peace with the Carja and by proxy, the Oseram as well be on their side to assist. The Quen may also have map terrains of USA, but those maps are 1000 years outdated as well as ignoring damage caused by Enduring Victory, meaning if the Quen were to ever attack USA, it would fail.
@@gozogo1233 I'm not sure, but my main point is that what we've seen and heard of their leaders so far, they'd be insane enough to try to attempt it anyway. Or at least attempt to order their people to attempt it. Maybe that'd finally tip them over into revolution.
Personally I say your assessment of Ittamen is wrong. Whole he did grow up surrounded by the doctrine of the Shadow Carja his mother whom he clinged to didn't agree with the sentiments. There's also the fact he idolizes aloy as his savior and a trusted adult, we see how excited he is to see and even learn hunting from her at the beginning of forbidden West.
Also while the banuk will be slow as a whole, the people of the cut will probably take to it fairly well considering the respect that Aloy, Aratack, and Ourea command in the tribe, especially with cyan opening them up to the ideas for over six months.
For the Utaru, Zoe has been a massive descenting voice against the chorus since the red raids and has now healed the land gods, between the two important roles of healer and death singer along with her time fighting in the raids she already carries some power and respect from her tribe and with the events of West included, she can probably speak against the chorus on even footing by herself much less with help from others in the tribe and those in the chorus
Yaaaassss
all the nora need to be convinced to use that knowledge is for gaia to say so thanks to their all mother religion
Where you bruh, it's been too months? You doing good?Are the videos hard to make? Or is there not enough lore to make a video too often?
Babe wake up random posted