Wider tires require MORE Lean angle | EXPLAINED
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- Опубликовано: 28 июл 2024
- I explain why wider tires require more lean angle, but are also necessary for big horsepower sportsbikes.
Instagram: / mikeonbikesofficial
#motorcycle #racing 
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Hey Mike, you have so many good videos explaining stuff in a great way, which isn't always easy to find other places. Really enjoy your videos and learned so much. Thanks for super content! Have a great motorcycle season! :)
🤔🧐🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
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Two types of people: those who are glad this video is 3 minutes long, and those who wish it was longer 🤣
Definitely wish it was longer
I wish it were more accurate.
So true
I want more!
I heard girthier is better
Great video. So many people have this “bigger tire is better” thinking.
Thanks Jake!
I am one of them. I see my mates doing a full lean easily at every corner, comparatively meaning:
I hold a Tiger xrt 800 front 19" and rear 17" 150mm rear.
They hold Tracer 900 GT, 17" front and 17" rear, 180mm rear.
I drove the Tracer. The ease of lean, as well as the fact that the 180mm never loses grip, while mine lost once on a roundabout, made me wanna switch to those. What you think, knowing a bit more of this?
I knew from experience, but never understand why - 😊
basically explains why smaller motorcycles feel so much more agile
They are also lighter, which adds to this agility. I actually want a lighter bike because of this.
@@joemann7971 the Ducati Superleggaro (not sure if the name is right) is as light as a 300CC motorcycle but the power is like that of a 1000 CC motorcycle.
Bomli Koyu V4 Superleggera
@@mohamedmasaau2991 yea that's right.
Yes. That's one factor.
I really love your motorcycle dynamics videos. I've been trying to understand the dynamics for the past 3 years. I believe that I can't fully learn how to ride a motorcycle without knowing the theory. Your videos have been the best in explaining the physics. Keep them coming!
This has... Unfortunately only added to my interest in motorcycle dynamics. I can't stop. It's such an interesting topic. Thank you so much!
Love it!
Finally! The question about reasoning behind tire width selection has been bugging me for a while. Thank you!
I miss my RS250 every single day. Never get rid of that beauty!
Garage Addiction why did u sell it?
@@wuvvbernardo9353 I blew the front cylinder at buttonwillow and at the time there were very few parts available and I ended up parting the bike out to keep others running :(
New video from home that is great for everyone who is staying at home right now. Love it
Your the best guy, I wish this video was longer. You explain really well this kind of stuff. Please still doing this amazing vídeos.
I really love that you make these videos short and they are very well explained
By far the best channel to understand a motorcycle physics!!!
Another great vid my man! Really enjoying your channel. Strong work!
Nice new standard: quick and dynamic video! The content is 10 as always!! Cheers!
I think this is why I think many people actually like riding bigger bikes on the street, even though the extra power is mostly unusable. On my Ninja 250, you could take corners at really unsafe speeds while still not getting that satisfying sensation of being leaned over.
All this said from personal experience. Bigger tires equal better braking, traction, and stability on street. On the street there are not many corners mostly straight lines.
More power does not necessarily mean more speed it means better acceleration. Better acceleration equals more fun as long as you have self-discipline and don't abuse it to ride at high speeds.
Youth plus more power rarely includes sound judgement.
Riding highway speeds on small displacement bike is buzzy and annoying. Then you have insufficent power for passing at higher speeds or 2-up riding.
The adage of riding a slow bike fast is more fun than riding a fast bike slow is urban myth perpetuated by individuals who often can't afford a more powerful bike.
Twist and go, on-demand acceleration from a powerful high torque bike is just as fun and more mentally relaxing then continuously clutching downshifting/upshifting to get into the power band. The later gets old fast. Are you at one with the machine or a slave of the machine? A more powerful motorcycle is like a well trained horse its ready to go when you are and you don't need to beat the crap out of it to make it happen.
Learning on a small displacement bike is the best way to start. Young minds don't think about mortality with an invincible mindset with desire for adrenalin rush is a dangerous combination on a powerful bike and limited experience. Even more seasoned adults lack self-discipline and learn the hard way or don't survive another day.
Every day one rides should include a personal conversation about not being foolish and living to enjoy riding another day. Riding on street should be about the experience sights, sounds, smells, and the journey. Street is not the place to up your heart rate by taking foolish chances. If you want to ride on the edge then the only place is the track but accept the fact that a crash could still become a life changing event.
@@kannermw I respectfully disagree on -"The adage of riding a slow bike fast is more fun than riding a fast bike slow is urban myth perpetuated by individuals who often can't afford a more powerful bike." I have owned 16 bikes ranging from a MT03, to a Harley to a GXSR 750, including a Z900. Mt07, Z650, and so on. I currently have a Kawasaki KLX 300Supermoto and its a hell of a lot more fun than I ever had on the GSXR or Z900. It will smoke both of them in tight turns such as the Tail of the Dragon. Acceleration does not always equate to fun. There is a lot more to riding than hard full throttle all the time. and No I don't get tired of upshifting and down shifting, its a motorcycle if I didn't want to change gears I would get a Honda Rebel 100 DCT. The fun part is downshifting entering a tight turn then on throttle coming out and upshifting. Boring is riding around in 2nd and 3rd gear all the time (GSXR and Z900). Even the Slower Z900 would do 90 in 3rd gear thats not fun at all. Where I live you can't run triple digit speeds but for brief moments. Anything over 100HP on a sport bike is wasted as you never use it at least where I live. If you live in TX or CA it may be different for you. But for me where I live handling (small and light) is more useful than power (120HP and more). I have seen guys on GROMs smoke supersports on Tail of the Dragon. Its all relative to where you can and do ride. Oh and I'm getting ready to buy a BMW F900r in case you were thinking I could not afford a big bike. I can in fact buy almost any bike available on the market including a Ducati Panigale, Kawasaki H2 or similar, I just don't see any point in it as I don't do track days.
@@kannermw all very solid advice, except for the delusional bit about the “myth perpetuated by people who can’t afford powerful bikes” …what’s fun is subjective and can’t be wrong, which means your myth claim objectively is wrong. And the can’t afford it line is like the most famous identifier of a douchebag. You’re better than that.. you obviously have a lot of great wisdom to share that could make someone a safer rider, there’s no reason to encourage people to be egotistical about money
Great video! Excellent graphics to explain things too. Thank you!
Thank heaps man, love your vids, indeed always something new to learn or see stuff explained in other ways ^_^
Yeah i definitely noticed the understeer when upgrading from my CB500F (160mm rear tire) to my CBR600RR (180mm rear). Thanks for the video explanation.
REALLY!!!!
the size of the tire is kind of irrelevant as a 170 and 200 series rear tyres will both only of a very very close size contact patch roughly 1.5 inches of rubber in contact with the tarmac
Wow, this is incredibly awesome! Well said and great visual explanations. Thanks!
Perfect explanations! 👍🏼 well done
Great, please keep doing more of these videos! 😊
THANK YOU SO MUCH,i was kinda depressed cause i wasn't able to confirm which tyre i should buy,this helps a lot
Love that shirt bud. Mcgyver was my favorite TV show when I was young. I still like it.
Under many of your videos I could write that the video is absolutely precious due to the great knowledge, but here I just can't resist because of that MacGyver t-shirt! Man, I need one! :)
Har alltid funderat på detta. Nu förstår jag mer. Med andra ord behöver man inte så breda däck på en supermotard som alltför många har, fast de kör på gata för det mesta. Well done Micke. Tack för upplägget. Fortsätt med att dela din kunskap. Det behövs fler som dig.
Tack Khan! Breda däck på en Supermotard är rätt kontraproduktivt. I vissa gränsfall såsom racing med supermotard-hojar som har mycket hästkrafter kan man tjäna på ett bredare bakdäck. Vissa proffs byter svingen för att få på bredare bakdäck av den anledningen. Om man kör gata för det mesta så är det bättre med smalare däck.
1:37 The centripetal force is what allows the bike to corner, inertia is what is trying to make it go in a straight line.
I think he meant centrifugal force.
@@wjsim Yeah he probably did. Except centrifugal force isn't an actual force, it's really just inertia.
I thought part of the reason is also the weight of the motorcycle. More powerful bikes are heavier, requiring a more extreme lean angle, but I guess it sort of hard to separate the two, since more powerful bikes come with wider tires by default.
Damn, thx for the info ! love your channel, support from Indonesia !
Great video but you missed one key factor...the profile of the tyre. Wider tyres generally have a flatter profile than narrower tyres, so you can reduce the amount of lean required by switching to a tyre with a deeper profile, this also reduces the effort required make the bike lean into a turn.
The standard rear tyre on my bike is a 190/50, but I use a 190/55. It is more agile with the deeper profile and brings it a little closer to the profile of a narrower tyre.
this.
Damn, I wish this video was out last week 😂 I just had a rear tyre fitted 1/2" wider than standard. I guess I'll have to console myself that I have more rear tyre grip in the wet!
big fan of urs from INDIA ..... god bless uh keep going on heights as always
This narrowed down to 3 mins. is amazing. I'd even watch a 10-minute video about it if you made one.
Didn't know about this. Thanks for the helpful video.
Great explanation and the video graphics and editing are very good. Thanks.
Thanks!
Easy to digest video, sooo goooood!
Mind-blowing, as always!
Short and to the point, i like it.
Hey Mike sorry for writing on wrong video, but I think the biggest benefit of leg dangle is not the dangle itself.
It's the retrieval of the leg that makes is easier to lean the bike in opposite direction. Would like to know your thoughts.
Great video Mike - thanks!
I highly appreciate your channel
Thanks for the details. 👍
Wow, an expert on tires.
Cool explaination of lean angle and tire with relationship. Subscribing!!
Thanks for the video. I have a question, why does 17inch rim is the choice from manufactures for most of the sport/ road motorcycles?
Thank you for great info!
Explained so well!
Great vid, perhaps this goes a long way to explaining why Harley’s with a 250-300mm rear tyre conversion tend to fall over. They simply can’t get the angle required due too exhaust, foot pegs n stuff hitting the ground first. Cheers 🍻
as a noob i had no idea! .... but i also had to replay the 2:00 part to actually see the angle changing because it's barely noticeable tho
This helped me out, thx
I'd had to play this part twice as well as the first time I didn't notice it was extending to the right ;)
Great info brother thanks
Mike is the best!
I miss these sportbike videos :DD
That’s the coolest shirt I’ve seen!
You're conflating tire width with tire profile, which is largely driven by both width and height (aspect ratio). In your graphic you're also flipping vertical and horizontal displacement between the CoM and contact patch (point of rotation).
Example: If you increase tire width while keeping the sidewall height constant (smaller aspect ratio) the bike will require more lean angle for a given radius and speed because as the bike leans further onto the tire the horizontal distance between the contact patch to the CoM has decreased vs the more narrow tire.
If you increase tire width and hold the aspect ratio constant the bike could actually require LESS lean angle depending on how much of the extra height is in the sidewall vs the contact profile. The horizontal moment arm between CoM and contact patch is decreased as the bike leans due to the wider tire, but because the tire is also taller, the starting CoM is now higher also, offsetting some or possibly all of the change moment arm change due to increased width.
And if you increase width AND increase the aspect ratio, it's actually LIKELY that the lean angle for a given radius and speed will be decreased for the same mathematical reasoning above.
Bottom line - aspect ratio and tire profile matter just as much as tire width - and it's not a simple black and white "wider tires require more lean" situation.
@@engineeredstrength4102 Perfect! That's the description I was looking for!
Fantastic video... Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Subscribed with interest 👍
Thanks for the sub!
Excellent content. We liked your video
Whattt you have an RS250?? Please make some videos with it! Would love to see some track days.
Does the same apply to offroad motorbikes ? Great explanations video, I would like to see more. I have jsut subscribed and clicked the notification bell :-)
I think there might be more to this topic than you are presenting. I've always felt like my dual sport and ADV bikes have to lean more than my sportbike for the same speed and corner radius, but I don't have any data unfortunately... I think you have to account for the weight of the bike and how high it's center of mass are as well.
Please more about Aprilia RS250! I had one many years ago, but still think it's one of the coolest bikes ever. PS Two-smokersss rulz )
Yes, would like to try 180/55x17 instead of 190/50x17 at/for the rear of my fireblade. 190/55x17 is usually recommend instead of 190/50 and has a legal go from Honda. But for country road riding i would like to try 180/55 as well. Very likely the better choice. More agility - and a 'less max acceleration performance at max lean angles' simply does not occur on backroads, because there is no such use then.
This just want to make get back into motorcycles in near future as well
Hey Mike, thanks for the video! I ride a bike with a wide rear tire. Does the additional lean angle required by wider tires negate their benefit at some point since lean reduces traction?
Wow thanks for the info 😁👍👌
I wish you also explain the science for front and rear tire ratio.. Atm im confuse if i will ncrease a little bit on the rear should i also increase on the front.. I hope in the future you can explain further.. :)
Very interesting. I didn't know that.👍
Indeed cool..... Good info👍
Can you please show what will be the maximum lean angle on a 80/100 rear tyre before the traction runs out. Pleasee !!!!!!
GOOD JOB !
Mike. I think I need to learn more about motorcycle physics
Excellent!
I didn't know you have a 2 stroke, you should explain the difference, ride feel, weight, power, and also the technical parts. Should be a nice video
really enjoyed the video, but could you compare how many degrees of difference in lean angle would there be for the same corner in a skinny tire and a fat tire? no idea how to do the calculations
Hi Mike! What about the cold weather and tire pressure? It's good to be lower than usual?
Did I hear you say contact patch? You do realize that is gonna start a big physics debate!
Hah, take notice of how I deliberately didn’t mention what is different about the contact patch of a wide vs narrow tire, precisely for this reason.
I came looking for this 😁
But then you also get in to tyre profiles as a 180 60 section rear has the same as a 190 50 or something!
I'm reading Motorcycle handling and Chassis design: there's some emphasis on the decrease of the coeff. of friction with increasing load. Despite this change, there's higher grip while braking as the weight shift to the front tire - does this mean that the drastic increase in normal force "outdoes" so to speak the decrease in coefficient of friction, thus resulting in an overall increase of grip?
Ahhh thats realy good to know, so that´s the reason why i can drive my tiger 800 with much less lean angle, as the Speedtripple from some friend.
I liked the video verry much but have a question: Does this mean that theoreticly a smaller bike can go faster around a corner?
Do you have more videos of that beautiful aprilia?
in my country people put super wide rear tire on 150cc bike. looks kinda good but it must be hard for the small engine to rotate that thing
Also changes how you take a corner motogp use the acceleration where a moto3 bjmes carries faster corner speed to maintain speed for the straight.
More please about tires I'm watching from the Philippines and I'm having a hard time understanding if a tire is losing it's grip(due to daily commute) How can I tell if I'm at my limits when leaning? Is it because of the mini slides that I experience when I am leaning slightly? or is it when I have a hard time leaning because the shape of the tire is a bit flat on the middle and When I lean it forces the motorcycle to move upright, Why?
Oh fuck yeah!!! AWESOME VIDEO🙌🙌🙌
Yes, very interesting 👌
man I was just getting into it when it ended
Hey Mike!
Intresting video!
I am looking for new set of slicks for my ‘22 smr 450. Unfortunately oem bridgestones are not available.
I can either go w metzelers, but in that case the heights will be different front around 1cm plus, rear around 2cm minus compared to stock (125/600 front 165/630 rear)
Or
Michelin power supermotos, whhere the total heights will be closer to stock, however those tyres are narrower (120 and 160]
Which one ‘d you pick in that case?
Do you run metzlers on your fs450? (Actually that has moddednsuspension i guess…)
Regards,
J
I didn’t know you had an aprilia 😍😍
Is that the reason, why my smaller front tires are not as ridden to the edge as my wider rear tires?
Thanks for the nice video.
No, front tires just have a pointier profile than the rear on a typical sportbikes. This makes it turn in easier but the rear is more flat to keep a wider contact patch for better grip when accelerating
Hey Mike, I have a question why do race bike have holes in their visor
Hello .. thanks for all your efforts .. May I know the difference between the 200/55 vs 60 tires ? and how it effects the 2020 S1000RR on track day?
Changes the angle front to rear. Easier to load the front. And makes it easier to flick left and right like a 190/55. I never had a 200/55 so I wouldn't know. But 60 very similar to a 190/55 feel wise. 🤷♂️
The lean angle is dictated by the tire profile not the tire width. A 180 with a very flat U profile will require more lean to take the same corner at the same speed then a very sharp V profile 200 tire. The wider tire is more beneficial in adding traction then reducing required lean angle.
Are front tires that are larger in diameter in comparison to the rear, better? Is there an advantage to this set up for motorcycles?
I have only started riding about a year. My first bike is a beginner small displacement 200cc with 110/70-17 front and 140/70-17 rear tire. Can you tell how much lean angle will be my maximum? Just want to know so that I can tell if my maximum lean angle is still safe.
Soo which tyre configuration is better for taking corners, considering a low hp bike?
Im about to buy a new r15m and do you think i can change the tire to a wider one ?
So what if you put smaller tire on a 1000cc track bike? I assume you could go faster in corners but less aggressive on throttle at corner exit?
Interesting. At first I was confused, because technically, the "angle" is dependent on just the speed and curve radius, but now I see that you are talking about the angle of the bike itself with the road, not the angle of the center of gravity and contact patch. So I guess when the manufacturer says that the bike has a max lean angle of 35 degrees, they mean the angle of the bike with the road. The actual angle of the center of gravity with the contact patch will probably be a little less than that, depending on the size of the tires.
Hello! My stock tire from a 150cc motorcycle is 130/70 rear. And i want to change that to a 120/70 will i have difficulty of having lesser grip?
The question is, is it worth mounting a 170 rear on a cb500f (mainly for the looks) from it's original 160 tire.
I subscribed just only for the ending song.