Maybe manufacturers generally don't wont you to know. The fact that Zipp in Indianapolis, US, has so many asian workers makes me want to know what salaries they pay the operators who make wheels that cost 1 500 USD per set and upwards (in Sweden)
Did you watch it? One of the Zip counterfeit wheels in question had a spelling mistake on it. I doubt that Zip would have built a sub-par wheel with a deliberate spelling mistake just for our viewing pleasure.
Those were clearly counterfeit wheels. You can tell by the Novatec hubs and the lack of correct Firecrest markings. It's also funny how every time someone brings up counterfeit someone chimes in with "well they work for me!". We know nothing about your riding style, where you live, how much you weigh, where you bought them from, etc. The biggest difference is that the QC levels are a probably not nearly as high. So maybe you got a good set, whereas others could get a really bad set. Everyone I know who has had carbon wheels living in California eventually have problems with them unless they use them only for crit racing where brakes aren't used a lot and there are no long descents.
I had my first 404's in 2005 which I loved. In 2015, I got 808 firecrest carbon clincher but hated the hub manual preload. Now, I'm on 2016 808's with new preset hubs and they are fantastic.
This was awesome! I used to work with carbon fiber and fiberglass on military aircraft and its so cool to see this. Thank you GCN for all your content.
Si!!! You GCN guys should cover the Little 500 in Indiana. Jason Fowler at Zipp raced in it, the movie Breaking Away is based off the race. It's usually the 3rd Saturday in April, you'd have a blast.
Seeing that white 3 spoke wheel at 11:50, reminded me I used to ride with a Neo-pro named Dan Vogt in 1989, he had a set of these and was sponsored by Zipp. He was also the model in the sales brochure!
For guys who live an ocean away you sure do find yourselves in the Midwest a lot. Only been subscribed for a few months and you were in my home town around iron man then at trek hq and now Indiana. I must live middle of cycling county her in the US.
I got a pair of Zipp 530 wheels with aluminum braking surface flyet to a carbon rim in 2001. In 2015 I had to stop riding them since they was getting so soft several places on the carbon rim like they were delaminated. I hope the wheels are better now.
I've always wondered about this, how they get it so light. I had a Viscount Sebring in 1977, it was supposedly very light for its time. Took a concerted effort to lift it. Today, my Nishiki with Zipp carbon fiber wheels, I can lift with one arm not even breaking a sweat. Amazing. Never ceases to amaze me.
I live in southern California, and if I ever decide to pony up the cash for carbon wheels (my HED Belgium C2 wheels w/ Chris King R45 hubs seem to work perfectly fine), Zipp would be the only ones I would buy. During Levi's Gran Fondo this year at the bottom of Hauser Bridge, I was waiting in line to use the SRAM Support guys' bike pump after my front tire blew on the descent, and in the 15 minutes I was waiting, there were 4 guys ahead of me with destroyed carbon wheels from the braking (it's a pretty hairy descent), all needing a replacement wheel. I'm sure there were many more failures throughout the day than just those 4 while I was there. The SRAM guy said in all the years he's been supporting the ride, he's seen virtually every brand of carbon wheel fail except for Zipp. Fortunately for my wallet, I cannot justify $3,100 for a set of 303 NSW's at the moment.
Dana Rouleau so the guy who works for Sram (the company that owns Zipp, remember) said he'd never seen his own product fail? Now there's a ringing endorsement for ya!
I dunno, when I was there, there was a failed Enve, Easton, and then two other wheels that I don't recall (some cheaper ones that I couldn't see the decals of).....so take it for what it's worth. I don't care what anyone buys really, I just know that after doing that ride and seeing firsthand what excessive heat can do to carbon wheels, I would probably listen to a guy who travels all around California supporting these events, regardless of who he works for - didn't really seem like the type of guy who was trying to sell SRAM stuff.
Trying to work out if a Si Richardson 404 would be worth more or less than standard! 'unique' or 'special' could apply to both ends of the zipp newbies production run.... :-)
Hi GCN and specifically Dan. Dan you met my friend Matt Dennis at a cx race two weeks ago competing on a Vitus bike. Today he was hit by a car that opened it's door then got run over it wasn't his fault. He has a broken rib and a broken wrist and is in hospital. Please could you give him a shoutout or something on the GCN show? Would mean a lot! Thanks, Chris
Well I don't know what to think about this video. It's always cool to see the manufacturing process but gess what ? Zipp wheels are made like any other carbon wheels. Saying all wheels are made in Indianapolis is a nice promotional lie. At #t=6m33s we can clearly see the names of the workers. Correct me if i'm wrong but Lal Tin Thang or Van Nuam are not typical names from Indianapolis. Everybody know that carbon components are made in in Taichung,Taiwan like any other brand. You should probably add 'sponsored' or 'promotional' in your title
@gcntech #gcntech I'm curious to understand the new "filament wound" method of producing carbon rims, rather than the more traditional cutting and shaping up of sheets of carbon. Perhaps something that you could explain on the fab new gcn tech channel?
How is the air bladder removed from the rim? The rim shape is closed so there seems to be no way to get the bladder out but clearly it is taken out somehow.
Notice they didn't show the impact tests on the real Zipp vs the "counterfeit". There are many documented examples of the "counterfeit" wheels out-performing the real genuine branded products, the truth is that with carbon it really does come down to each individual piece and a brands track record should not be the only consideration made when they all have had numerous products fail, and continue to do so. That includes Zipp. The big brands fail just as much as the cheaper chinese alternatives. The reality is that the big manufacturers are feeling the squeeze from the much more affordable products produced by the chinese carbon fibre cycling parts industry. Many of the cheaper option copies being made in the very same factories as some of the more well known branded options, and in addition to that, they are also subjected to the same rigorous quality and safety testing. What you saw in this video in my opinion was absolutely propaganda to create fear for the consumer that is considering whether to pay the big bucks or take the cheaper option. In my experience I bought a set of chinese 50mm clinchers which I am very happy with still after almost 5,000kms. Don't fall for the fear campaign. Paid presentation?? Yeeeeppp.
they are just mad because most the time its the same wheels being sold by one of their manufacturers under a unbadged or rebadged name for cheaper because they are excess product.. some manufacturers supply a certain line of products to various costumers( big brand name) and so of course they make some for whoever buys in or the factory sells some themselves for some marginal profit. We do get some people who collect and try to resale recasted or failed product from time to time.
yeah you can, it's not all about money. Supporting your local bicycle shop may be more costly but the money is being used in better ways than buying online
Can you do a comparison between aftermarket wheels like these against the factory options. For example say these Zipp wheels versus say The wheels that come on a Giant, there SLR 0 wheels.How does a consumer know if they are really buying something much better then the ones that came on there bikes to begin with.
I'm not advocating counterfeiting of Zipp wheels but it'll be good for consumers to see the difference of the impact test and brake track delamination test of the real wheels. I think the reason why they don't show it is because both wheels will fail in a relatively similar way albeit the counterfeit ones at less loads and stresses. If that's the case, I would prefer Zipp wheels to be more affordable by lowering their design limits so they cost less to produce. I mean who would pump their tyres up to 338 psi??!!!
Is it possible to order Zipp rims only? With 32 holes? :P Finding carbon rims, that can be used with a dynamo hub is hard.. Nextie is the only possibility it seems!
safety factor. very high safety factor. the pressure goes up once you get on the saddle, too. air compressor tanks have a 2.3 to 1 safety factor. boost it a bit for the fact that there's a rider riding the bike, and you'll see that it's reasonable.
Hi GCN boys! I have enjoyed your videos for several years now, like so many others. But one thing that is bothering me, and have been bothering me for some time, is the sound quality. Swapping from another channel and over to a GCN video, there's usually a significant loss in the sound quality. I find myself struggling to hear what you're saying, and end up turning volume up way to high for my gf's sensitive ears... There is definitely room for improvent regarding EQ-ing. To me it sounds like the frequencies around 100 Hz are too dampened or compressed. Either that or you're using low quality microphones. Is this something you are aware of?
Yeah, especially with the GCN show. I have crap speakers, but the GCN really likes to point that out! Maybe it's the frequency of human voice that's hard to get right or something. But I agree that the sound quality could be better, less harsh, clearer.
Spent about 500 miles on it and so far so good. ruclips.net/user/postUgkxMesz3KOGEmwmvyKQfLfrRSUXLFzfVHZA Pros:1. Very light2. Solid quality build3. Fast delivery: It arrived 5 weeks earlier than expected.4. Easy assemblyJust a few cons but nothing major:1. Cheap tin tubes and had flat on first day... but not a big deal. I replaced the tubes.2. Seat is a bit uncomfortable but that's pretty much the same situation with most bikes.3. Seat post is a bit long/high for a smaller size 48 bike - had to saw 2 inch off to fit properly. The lowest setting is too high. The post locking system does not seem to hold well (perhaps because I saw 2 inch off).4. wheels are not tubeless compatible (from what I can tell)
![[Limbus Company - PV] Chapter.7 - Oblivion](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VUpkXPkvoxU/mqdefault.jpg)
I`d like to see more of how things are built please.
Loved this.
You may have seen it. I liked the Look tour. These use 306 pieces on a carbon frame.
Maybe manufacturers generally don't wont you to know. The fact that Zipp in Indianapolis, US, has so many asian workers makes me want to know what salaries they pay the operators who make wheels that cost 1 500 USD per set and upwards (in Sweden)
I bet SI comes home with a new set of 454 NSW wheels!
Wow, they actually test counterfeit ZIPP's also. That company is amazing.
Did you watch it? One of the Zip counterfeit wheels in question had a spelling mistake on it. I doubt that Zip would have built a sub-par wheel with a deliberate spelling mistake just for our viewing pleasure.
Fran Rod What is overpriced, the real thing or the knockoff?
Those were clearly counterfeit wheels. You can tell by the Novatec hubs and the lack of correct Firecrest markings.
It's also funny how every time someone brings up counterfeit someone chimes in with "well they work for me!". We know nothing about your riding style, where you live, how much you weigh, where you bought them from, etc. The biggest difference is that the QC levels are a probably not nearly as high. So maybe you got a good set, whereas others could get a really bad set. Everyone I know who has had carbon wheels living in California eventually have problems with them unless they use them only for crit racing where brakes aren't used a lot and there are no long descents.
Fran Rod You get what you pay for, I guess.
Charles Rush I would imagine that Campagnolo would be as expensive, if not more that ZIPP wheels.
Can someone please tell me the wheel serial number that Si made? I will avoid buying that one.
Tevin Chau he only did the last bit. He couldn't have wrecked it too much.
They probably binned everything Si touched.
I had my first 404's in 2005 which I loved. In 2015, I got 808 firecrest carbon clincher but hated the hub manual preload. Now, I'm on 2016 808's with new preset hubs and they are fantastic.
The return of the "Exactly" and "Now" duo!
I ride 2018 Zipp 202 tubular with 77/177 hubs and it’s terrific in the mountains! Thank you Zipp!
This was awesome! I used to work with carbon fiber and fiberglass on military aircraft and its so cool to see this. Thank you GCN for all your content.
Si!!! You GCN guys should cover the Little 500 in Indiana. Jason Fowler at Zipp raced in it, the movie Breaking Away is based off the race. It's usually the 3rd Saturday in April, you'd have a blast.
Excellent video… enjoyed it a lot more than I thought I would. Fascinating process!
Si "The Mechanic" Richardson in his element - acting like a giggling school girl - forgot which way to tighten spokes....classic video!!
He didnt know in the first place.
Seeing that white 3 spoke wheel at 11:50, reminded me I used to ride with a Neo-pro named Dan Vogt in 1989, he had a set of these and was sponsored by Zipp. He was also the model in the sales brochure!
That was a great tour, thanks GCN and ZSW !!
The handlebar wheel holders are amazing
that was very cool of zipp to take gcn on that factory tour. would like to pick up a pair of clincher 30s for the cervelo soon... nice job here
I feel sorry for the person who has to have si's bodged up wheel
"....and this is the toasted sandwich maker where we press in this years bullshit marketing pattern. I mean dimples."
Always wanted a set of zipp’s
For guys who live an ocean away you sure do find yourselves in the Midwest a lot. Only been subscribed for a few months and you were in my home town around iron man then at trek hq and now Indiana. I must live middle of cycling county her in the US.
I got a pair of Zipp 530 wheels with aluminum braking surface flyet to a carbon rim in 2001. In 2015 I had to stop riding them since they was getting so soft several places on the carbon rim like they were delaminated. I hope the wheels are better now.
It’s such a pleasure listening to MICHAEL……. he’s someone who doesn’t sound like a Monty pythons Austin powers James Bond goofy character 👍
I don't know about now, but a few years back Zipp hubs were JUNK! Knew a least three guys who had them just self destruct inside.
So which way do I turn the nipple? --SI 2016
Few weeks ago we had Mikoto and now we have Kuroko lol
Is Academy City getting so boring that students decided to pick up some new hobby?
Leon Suen yeah I spat my tea everywhere when I saw the name show up
As… Kuroko Shirai ‘x ;;’ A
I've always wondered about this, how they get it so light. I had a Viscount Sebring in 1977, it was supposedly very light for its time. Took a concerted effort to lift it. Today, my Nishiki with Zipp carbon fiber wheels, I can lift with one arm not even breaking a sweat. Amazing. Never ceases to amaze me.
I live in southern California, and if I ever decide to pony up the cash for carbon wheels (my HED Belgium C2 wheels w/ Chris King R45 hubs seem to work perfectly fine), Zipp would be the only ones I would buy. During Levi's Gran Fondo this year at the bottom of Hauser Bridge, I was waiting in line to use the SRAM Support guys' bike pump after my front tire blew on the descent, and in the 15 minutes I was waiting, there were 4 guys ahead of me with destroyed carbon wheels from the braking (it's a pretty hairy descent), all needing a replacement wheel. I'm sure there were many more failures throughout the day than just those 4 while I was there. The SRAM guy said in all the years he's been supporting the ride, he's seen virtually every brand of carbon wheel fail except for Zipp. Fortunately for my wallet, I cannot justify $3,100 for a set of 303 NSW's at the moment.
Dana Rouleau so the guy who works for Sram (the company that owns Zipp, remember) said he'd never seen his own product fail? Now there's a ringing endorsement for ya!
I dunno, when I was there, there was a failed Enve, Easton, and then two other wheels that I don't recall (some cheaper ones that I couldn't see the decals of).....so take it for what it's worth. I don't care what anyone buys really, I just know that after doing that ride and seeing firsthand what excessive heat can do to carbon wheels, I would probably listen to a guy who travels all around California supporting these events, regardless of who he works for - didn't really seem like the type of guy who was trying to sell SRAM stuff.
What amazes me is that you bought that sort of crap from a SRAM company guy. Wow, some americans are really dumb.
Are you actually stupid enough to believe that some mechanic making shit for money gives a crap if you buy a set of $3,000 wheels?
The Giant SLR 0 cost around $2200, and to think its built in Taiwan. $3100 made in US, is reasonable for pro racers. just sharing my opinion.
Hi, GCN. Can u guys make a GIANT factory tour video..... pls
That was great. More like this! Are all all the Zipp wheels built in that factory?
Yes
Not even a minute in and I've burst out laughing. Michael Hall is surprisingly hilarious.
This is really fascinating
Simon in his natural habitat
Feel better knowing the wheels are made here. Had no idea.
Hey you're about 5 miles from my house! I know a few engineers over there at Zipp.
Did the tire or the rim fail first in the pressure (inflation) test?
4:30. That scared me. I thought his hand was still inside and was going to get burned
4:55 I can see Froome's Ventoux algorithm on the computer screen
i
wish this was in orlando id love to work here
very interisting
great video. I would love to see more of a similar flavor.
Trying to work out if a Si Richardson 404 would be worth more or less than standard! 'unique' or 'special' could apply to both ends of the zipp newbies production run.... :-)
How many takes to open that envelope?
what is the crash test standard name (or number) ? what are the parameters ? weight speed distance etc ?
Hi GCN and specifically Dan. Dan you met my friend Matt Dennis at a cx race two weeks ago competing on a Vitus bike. Today he was hit by a car that opened it's door then got run over it wasn't his fault. He has a broken rib and a broken wrist and is in hospital. Please could you give him a shoutout or something on the GCN show? Would mean a lot! Thanks, Chris
Well I don't know what to think about this video.
It's always cool to see the manufacturing process but gess what ? Zipp wheels are made like any other carbon wheels.
Saying all wheels are made in Indianapolis is a nice promotional lie. At #t=6m33s we can clearly see the names of the workers.
Correct me if i'm wrong but Lal Tin Thang or Van Nuam are not typical names from Indianapolis.
Everybody know that carbon components are made in in Taichung,Taiwan like any other brand.
You should probably add 'sponsored' or 'promotional' in your title
wow helluva video. loved it
@gcntech #gcntech I'm curious to understand the new "filament wound" method of producing carbon rims, rather than the more traditional cutting and shaping up of sheets of carbon. Perhaps something that you could explain on the fab new gcn tech channel?
Where is the factory located? Is it Taiwan? I believe it's in the South East, probably Indonesia or Malaysia
yep like every big name brand wheel company and then they mark them up
great to see such spot on R&D and how rip off wheels fail
How is the air bladder removed from the rim? The rim shape is closed so there seems to be no way to get the bladder out but clearly it is taken out somehow.
that s an amazing video thanks for sharing, my question is how can I tell when I buy a set of new zipps if they are counterfeit.?
Proud owner of multiple pairs of Zipp wheels. They make the best.
Finally a presenter actually drinking a real beverage from a mug. Thanks Si for keeping it real.
Si, as always, fun video. Is it remarkable that you're wearing Levis and Vans? So California!
Awesome video!
شكرا على مجهودكم الدي تقومون به من أجلناأجلنا أحببت لو يكون هناك ترجمة بي الغة العربية
Deleted scenes of Si using a Mop to wash floors
How do they hold the rim shape while laying up the carbon?
Lol Simon's face 5 seconds after the word coffee
Si looks like Eddie Redmayne. The resemblance is uncanny!
How come u guy did not talk about the hubs. Aren't how good the hubs are just as important.
Thx GCN
👍👍
Robert Saldivar The hubs get shipped in from overseas... Not much to show :)
Great Vid fellas 👍
Awesome vid! Keep it up!
Notice they didn't show the impact tests on the real Zipp vs the "counterfeit". There are many documented examples of the "counterfeit" wheels out-performing the real genuine branded products, the truth is that with carbon it really does come down to each individual piece and a brands track record should not be the only consideration made when they all have had numerous products fail, and continue to do so. That includes Zipp. The big brands fail just as much as the cheaper chinese alternatives.
The reality is that the big manufacturers are feeling the squeeze from the much more affordable products produced by the chinese carbon fibre cycling parts industry. Many of the cheaper option copies being made in the very same factories as some of the more well known branded options, and in addition to that, they are also subjected to the same rigorous quality and safety testing.
What you saw in this video in my opinion was absolutely propaganda to create fear for the consumer that is considering whether to pay the big bucks or take the cheaper option. In my experience I bought a set of chinese 50mm clinchers which I am very happy with still after almost 5,000kms. Don't fall for the fear campaign. Paid presentation?? Yeeeeppp.
they are just mad because most the time its the same wheels being sold by one of their manufacturers under a unbadged or rebadged name for cheaper because they are excess product.. some manufacturers supply a certain line of products to various costumers( big brand name) and so of course they make some for whoever buys in or the factory sells some themselves for some marginal profit. We do get some people who collect and try to resale recasted or failed product from time to time.
Ahh the birth of my wheels!
good
That was so cool. How to spot counterfeit product?
don't order from alieexpress
Know who you're buying from.
Gt George true true. But sometimes you just can't beat those deals you know... lol 😂
Buy from your local bicycle shop,
yeah you can, it's not all about money. Supporting your local bicycle shop may be more costly but the money is being used in better ways than buying online
Si had a great orientation at ZIPP before starting as Mail Boy. So why wouldn't they trust him with a letter opener?
Can you do a comparison between aftermarket wheels like these against the factory options. For example say these Zipp wheels versus say The wheels that come on a Giant, there SLR 0 wheels.How does a consumer know if they are really buying something much better then the ones that came on there bikes to begin with.
Would have been nice to see how the hubs were made.
Were they able to say how many brake cycles they do on their wheels?
U skipped hole drill machine!
I'm not advocating counterfeiting of Zipp wheels but it'll be good for consumers to see the difference of the impact test and brake track delamination test of the real wheels. I think the reason why they don't show it is because both wheels will fail in a relatively similar way albeit the counterfeit ones at less loads and stresses. If that's the case, I would prefer Zipp wheels to be more affordable by lowering their design limits so they cost less to produce. I mean who would pump their tyres up to 338 psi??!!!
huh - i did not know sram owned zipp
More precisely, Sram owns Zipp, Shimano owns Pro, FSA owns Vision and Campy owns Fulcrum.
+ then theres the bike manufactures - Specialized owns Roval, Trek owns Bontrager
A bit disappointing if you ask me.
@@ajanthaabeyewardene9998 nearly read Specialized owns Trek
why do zipp still use alu axles when dura ace use titanium.?
not quite...
fab.cba.mit.edu/classes/863.15/doc/tutorials/sandcasting/img/specific-stiff-strength.jpg
I'm curious about what is the core material?
How can I order another size, 53cm?
Are you sure that was IN? Looked like a lot of overseas workforce in the background there...
welcome to the new "america".
How can I get one of those spoke holders?
can someone recommend an advanced bicycle mechanic book, something really comprehensive
I think in Europe the wheels are assembled in Portugal.
first of all if you can get zipp carbon wheels it would be a great idea to get a disk brake bike....
it really takes good hand skills to make a perfect set of wheels, standard machines cannot do that yet.
Graphene resin rims?
That master wheel builders is like hurry up bro I have shit to do!
Wheelie good!
Is it possible to order Zipp rims only? With 32 holes? :P
Finding carbon rims, that can be used with a dynamo hub is hard..
Nextie is the only possibility it seems!
yes Google it... there places that builds wheels and you can buy it from them
32H no, 28 yes. Check out Wheelbuilder.com.
"We track everyone who built the wheel so they can be really proud" Lmao more like fired if shit fucks up
So why does their website say that the max pressure is 8.5 bar?
safety factor. very high safety factor.
the pressure goes up once you get on the saddle, too.
air compressor tanks have a 2.3 to 1 safety factor. boost it a bit for the fact that there's a rider riding the bike, and you'll see that it's reasonable.
Justin Crediblename IT is safety, but the rider doesnt add as much pressure. From 8.5 it could maybe get up to 10.
Hi GCN boys! I have enjoyed your videos for several years now, like so many others. But one thing that is bothering me, and have been bothering me for some time, is the sound quality. Swapping from another channel and over to a GCN video, there's usually a significant loss in the sound quality. I find myself struggling to hear what you're saying, and end up turning volume up way to high for my gf's sensitive ears... There is definitely room for improvent regarding EQ-ing. To me it sounds like the frequencies around 100 Hz are too dampened or compressed. Either that or you're using low quality microphones. Is this something you are aware of?
Yeah, especially with the GCN show. I have crap speakers, but the GCN really likes to point that out! Maybe it's the frequency of human voice that's hard to get right or something. But I agree that the sound quality could be better, less harsh, clearer.
are all zipp wheels made in USA?
can i work there as an operator? nice!
900K fast approaching
didn't know that Zipp uses Novatec hubs? check 10:15 - 10:17
Today's episode: Si makes the new Zipp Panini.
Si's special edition Zipp wheels will both be square.
Whoa. I make the same latte :'D ^^
Spent about 500 miles on it and so far so good. ruclips.net/user/postUgkxMesz3KOGEmwmvyKQfLfrRSUXLFzfVHZA Pros:1. Very light2. Solid quality build3. Fast delivery: It arrived 5 weeks earlier than expected.4. Easy assemblyJust a few cons but nothing major:1. Cheap tin tubes and had flat on first day... but not a big deal. I replaced the tubes.2. Seat is a bit uncomfortable but that's pretty much the same situation with most bikes.3. Seat post is a bit long/high for a smaller size 48 bike - had to saw 2 inch off to fit properly. The lowest setting is too high. The post locking system does not seem to hold well (perhaps because I saw 2 inch off).4. wheels are not tubeless compatible (from what I can tell)
6:29 it's look like "Git" in my world :D
"H-hands on this is my coffee making outfit"
totally not scripted
Dude was class agreed
Naturally they used Vredestein tires during pressure test.