Blue Origin wins again! But does Bezos deserve the same USSF contracts as SpaceX and ULA?
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- Опубликовано: 14 июн 2024
- Blue Orgin has secured yet another multi billion dollar government contract!
But what have they done to deserve USSF missions? What is the USSF looking for anyway, and why?
#space #spacex #blueorigin
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Aren’t they like 6 years late delivering 4 engines to ULA?
Yup
I don't understand how BO can get a contract for anything from the US government. Their vertical amusement ride is all they've got currently. Big plans, hopes and dreams are great for conversation over drinks but where's the reality?? Bezos must donate millions to politicians is all I can figure.
Simple: its because of Musk's pro-Putin sentiment.
Called money to certain Congress persons.
Yep....and watch in the future for ex-military brass to get cushy 'consulting' jobs with BO after they retire.
Blue Origin has a top tier reputation as a can do aerospace company similar to ULA and Boeing!😊 Space X not looked upon as 1st tier by the government. Actually, Space X had to sue NASA to get into the contracts!😮
@@Agent77X Can do...what? Please educate all of us, please.
You raised several good points. That Blue is 20 years old and, has yet to demonstrate the ability to reach orbit. But you have to admit, the animation has healed up well for all this time. Now that is money well spent.
😆
I'm in the wrong business, I better start producing rocket animations 😂
Starship hadn't launched or gotten into orbit either. So you look at the plans and how they have gone about achieving what they have. I would have serious problems choosing SpaceX!
And yet we have more of Blue origins pipe dreams, I think the decision actually has more to do with politics then anything, as we already have seen how one side can create a whole fantasy world without a shred of any proof or feasible explanation of how it will really be done financially here in the real world and not just some fantasy realm.😂
Blue Origin was founded over 20 years ago and has yet to achieve significant milestones, having accomplished nothing relevant compared to SpaceX until now.
Launching humans on suborbital flights to space is an accomplishment and building engines for an operational orbital class rocket is too. They should have accomplished MUCH more, but saying they’ve done nothing is a bit too extreme.
They have accomplished nothing new or special beside a giant lawn dart that support humans for a bit.... with only one engine that screw the mission if it fails...@@jaxonmattox9267
@@jaxonmattox9267Blue Origin's achievements cannot be compared to those of SpaceX or ULA. According to NASA, SpaceX has saved the agency over $40 billion by providing cost-effective launch services. ULA, historically dependent on Russian engines for its rockets, and Boeing, which faced delays and additional costs in developing the Starliner capsule, illustrate the challenges of competing with SpaceX. Boeing received significantly more funding than SpaceX but still delivered a more expensive and initially faulty spacecraft. Given these issues, Blue Origin, ULA and Boeing have struggled to match SpaceX's efficiency and reliability, raising questions about their continued government contract awards.
You act as Blue Origin had the same capital funding as SpaceX.
@jaxonmattox9267 not really. They have done nothing of note.
Blue Origin definitely has not proven itself as being worthy of 1 billion dollars of taxpayer money. It's actually mind boggling.
Can't even put a grapefruit into orbit.
WTF?
isn't new glenn less capable than falcon heavy too?
@@moonashaless capable theoretically but more larger fairing (much larger)
Not when comparing it to the 4.2 billion wasted on starliner.
Buying politicians can get you any contract.
It is funny. Blue origin can bid on lane 2 without flying but Rocket lab can't bid on lane 1 without flying... Bezos use his Washington post to snare rocket lab and drag down his second most dangerous competitor
corrupt politicians and DoD gotta love it.
Yes. Currently, every space company needs to own a major media site in order to compete. Without Elon owning Twitter/X, SpaceX would have been stopped in its tracks before completing its 2028 goals. It's also why you won't see RocketLab, FireFly, or anyone else getting far if they don't own a nationwide media network.
doesn't matter because blue origin will literally never fly, meanwhile rocket lab will probably fly
@@moonasha naaah, new Glenn is actually scheduled to fly this year. But without attempt to land. Issue is more that they got the contract while they are still on the ground, and there are other companies that are in very same position as BO like Stoke or relativity, and they were denied even to lane 1. It's about double standards. Especially that Bo got lot of other contracts, from HLS to others, while they not only didn't had orbital launch yet, but with ULA BE4 they failed to fullfill one of theirs contract on time.
It's simply very fishy, that they are treated same as SpaceX, that is very experienced and proven, while other companies in sector, that are actually more comparable to Blue Origin really struggling to get any contract before they can prove that they can do the job.
@@bradallen1832 I don't understand how Elon's Twitter acquisition could have been necessary to SpaceX achieving goals. At best if we're looking at promoting assets it would be to control the narrative on Tesla and himself.
Who did Bezos threaten to sue this time?????
All of us
US taxpayers.
I believe that is just speculation.
Its not about a lawsuit its about the bribe.
SpaceX in Florida.
The BO contract should be conditional on achieving certain milestones, like demonstrating LEO by a certain date.
Vulcan
@@iamscoutstfuvulcan is ULA. It uses Bo engines, but rest is ULA.
Calling vulcan as BO launcher is like calling Atlas V as Russian rocket as it's uses RD-180.
@@iamscoutstfuEngines yes but New Glenn still needs to fly. Hopefully by 2025 we will see a launch finally.
Oh, I'm sure they will, but getting to LEO is not really meaningful for this work.
@@just_archan Which part pushes the rocket to orbit?
SpaceX needs to forget about their real-world space program and start focusing on their CGI space program. Blue Origin is simply killing them with their CGI space program and is obviously why they are getting all those sweet government contracts.
Lol you are funny 😃
This has nothing to do with a certain online shopping giant having a couple senators in their payroll
Who?? Pretty big accusation!! Can you back that up?? Besides, two or ten Senators doesn't make approvals, not to mention that "Black projects" don't work loke NASA budgets!
So is it basically a case of "I'm very rich and if you don't pick my company I am going have the nastiest lawyers sue you"..?! That's what it sounds like, though I have no idea on what grounds he can "sue the Government".
He’s sued the government (and lost) over the lunar landing contract that went to SpaceX.
Space Force is not NASA. Do not mess with the DoD and Bezos is much smarter than that!
SpaceX sued to be considered for NRO and USAF launches and won, but only because they actually had a proven vehicle that could accommodate those launches. If Blue had a vehicle with an established launch record that could carry those payloads it wouldn't be an issue. But they have literally nothing. They can't show anything at all except on paper plans and a few prototypes.
Including 6 months of Amazon prime keeps pushing blue origins contracts over the finish line.
F'ing hilarious!!! I love it!
How is it that Blue Origin is an older company still yet to launch anything into orbit?
Vulcan
It is all about solid reputation and Blue Origin is top tier! Government leaders decide on contract based on company’s reputation!😊
Very slow. No compulsion to spread life before we lose our chance. No inspiration to live.
@@Agent77X Blue Origin has negative reputation. It's never launched to orbit, and attacked anyone else who could. It has been very very late delivering BE-4 engines to Vulcan, and it lied spectacularly about SpaceX. Blue Origin is the ultimate blue balls jealous company that tears down everyone else because they can't build anything themselves.
@@iamscoutstfurocket is more than engines. Vulcan used Bo hardware, but rest is ULA.
You say starship won't be able to do things because it would need to refuel. But isn't that kinda the point? Once starship is completely reusable it won't really matter how many refueling flights it takes. It will still be cheaper to use than anything else and will be able to drop anything into any orbit you want.
The us army requirements a direct flight so refueling is out of the question with this requirement
@@danygauthier605yup. But consider massive payload capacity, you can use "pusher stage" for majority of payloads.
@@danygauthier605surely that’s because that’s how it has always happened?
One mission vs. multiple of an unproven concept! Which do you think is more risky to fly you payload worth 10s of billions??? It's a no-brainer!! BTW, the DoD rarely worries about potentially saving a few buck!
@@professorg8383 my point is that if that's going to change, it's only well after it's a proven concept. Given the DOD has invested in starship, i'd dare say they would be open to using it well into the future.
Lobbying is why BO has any contracts before a craft has been demonstrated.
3:20 Are you sure about this? Starship 2 and Starship 3 will potentially have a significant higher tonnes of payload to orbit.
Let’s not forget two things - US agencies pretty much have to foster multiple suppliers to appear to not play favorites and have a possible back up. The US military IIRC already has at least one contract with SpaceX if not multiple. BO of course won’t deliver, and Space-X will carry them.
This. This is the 100% reason they are getting any contracting. Simply because agencies HAVE to. It's quotas all over again, but with private rocket companies.
The only thing BO is bringing to the mission are lawyers and their threats. They are so pathetically slow at everything they do, they make Boeing look fast and competent.
BO is also bringing a lot of lobbying cash and pro-(D) propaganda
I believe it is time for someone to start a "Space Tug" company.
All these LEO rockets would no longer require direct to GEO ability if they could simply meet up with, or lunch directly with a space tug optimized for in vacuum operations.
"Blue ring"
Tom Mueller (the principal engineer behind SpaceX's Merlin engine) is doing just this: check out his new startup, Impulse Space.
@@Spherical_Cow Now there's a smart guy, unlike his former boss!
@@Spherical_Cow The space tug would have great synergy with the starship. Love the idea.
@@GreyDeathVaccine And Tom Mueller knows it: he has specifically said in interviews, that he hit upon this idea when he was still at SpaceX and the Starship program was in progress. He knew what Starship's capabilities were (approximately) going to be, and he believes SpaceX's orbital propellant depot will cater to third-party customers besides Starship. So, he realized that both Starship and the Depot would be complemented nicely by a fleet of dedicated space tugs that would service higher-energy orbits as well as potentially enable shuttling in-orbit assets around. He's actually counting on refilling at the Depot, thus designing his space tugs to use cryogenic methalox propellants with that in mind (also allowing them to be 'reused' for multiple consecutive missions without having to land back on Earth.)
New Glen hasn't even been tested in a sub orbital flight yet
It hasn't even been static fired or wet dressed yet. We haven't even seen a photo of a test vehicle much less a flight vehicle.
SpaceX will be there in the end when it all falls apart for Bezos. SpaceX to the rescue…..
bezos has the $ and the personal interest to not have that happen. musk is more likely to wig out.
@@meesalikeu where do you get that crazy idea? The russians literally spit in his face, and Elon's reaction was to go home and start his own rocket company.
@@meesalikeu You're insane.
@@meesalikeu A comment from a mentally unhealthy person.
Bezos has no special interest in space, he just looks for more money. As for Elon? History will judge him eventually but one thing is for sure, he has already solidified his name over there. And he almost lives for it.
The obvious advantage of Starship, despite having to refuel, is that it can launch much larger spacecraft. Spacecraft with capabilities unimaginable before. I would think that would outweigh direct to geosynch.
Not to mention the ability to ferry significant amounts of material and manpower to the Moon and Mars. With it so cheap and quick to make one (both getting less each time) they can literally have a cargo convoy FLOWING between destinations. Like cement trucks at a large build site constantly entering and leaving. THAT is the real game changer. Instead of everything you can take having to fit on one single launch, this thing can fly, and refly, and refly, and they can make 100 of them for less than 1 single launch of SLS.
I agree with OP. Starship can lift gigantic payload to LEO. Starship doesn't have to do everything itself. Once placed in LEO, such a gigantic payload could be towed further by a space tug launched in the next launch. This would require docking to some intermediate layer connected to the payload.
Over time, if/as SpaceX has refueling tankers in orbit regularly, one would think Starships could be inexpensively refueled once or twice enabling them to continue on to higher orbits for direct deployment of these larger satellites. Whether or not SpaceX would be interested in using Starships for these missions however, who knows?
Starship can launch around 100t to LEO, so can it just deploy the satellites in LEO with a big 'space tug' attached to finish the positioning into the correct orbit? Space tug stays in space for future reboost missions?
It cannot yet. Also I highly doubt the numbers, as the dry mass is not set in stone yet: we do not know how much the thermal protection gonna wight.
Payloads that need to get out to orbits have their own thrusters and fuel on board. Partially for getting into the proper orbit, but also for maintaining it, and any position changes (debris etc) that may be needed. Communications satellites often have nearby backups that can be changed from the parking location to the active satellite position with a bit of thruster firing.
If you can believe Elon.
I would never award a contract to a platform that has never (physically) launched into orbit.
Who is running the decision making process in government?
HLS was awarded to SpaceX on a platform that hadn't reached orbit.
@@brendanpells912 Those are two different things. HLS is to design a luner lander from scratch to land on the moon. How it get to space, get to the moon and back are all part of the design This on the other hand is saying I have a satellite to launch to space, let me do it on your imaginary rocket.
Like-minded ideologues
Corruptoids
@@brendanpells912 Not only that, it was barely on paper! They hadn''t even had a launch! I know all the fanboys will say, look at Falcon 9!!, But it's a model rocket in comparison to Starship/HLS!
From the USSF POV it makes sense. Falcon is so flexible the payload can be moved to Falcon Heavy quickly and Space X will have a steady flow of used cores to expend on these flights. Meanwhile Musk is not given a monopoly.
By the time sue origin has new glen ready the payloads will be antiques
I THINK I understand what you mean.🤔
All BO brings to the table is lawyers.
If understand correctly BO needs to launch the rocket by a certain time frame to keep the contract.
Well, it's not like it will be a blank check that says, "when you get around to it"!!
honestly, I really do hope Blue Origin succeeds. What's so frustrating is how freaking slow they are. How have they not even flown a test version of New Glenn yet? How the heck do they think they're going to land that booster at this rate? SpaceX had hard landings for many many boosters before they dialed it in. Also HLS wasn't just given to Blue Origin, it was given to Lockheed, Boeing, and a few others together. So hopefully that won't be such a failure as New Glenn
You seem to be discounting Starship just because it cannot go to high orbits without refueling. The whole concept of Starship is dependent on refueling. Considering the Starship launch system and discounting refueling makes very little sense.
If Starship solves refueling it will result in a complete annihilation of any competition. To calculate we will have to see how many refueling launches are needed to get to geosynchronous orbit - but it is significantly less than for the Moon or Mars.
Competition, more players the better.
US military has it's own budgets and spends $50,000 on a toilet seat (Area 51 special acquisition). Blue Origin no doubt offered a huge discount in exchange for Alien space craft tech, might even be free.
The military never remotely spent that kind of money on a toilet seat. That was a paperwork thing only.
(And the paperwork showed, $5,000 for the seats.)
What happened was someone got hold of a purchase order, and that purchase order had X number of items on it, and on that purchase order they took the total number of items that were on it and divided it by the number of items that were on it and divided it by the total cost of everything.
And that's what the per item cost worked out to. The problem with that stupidity is the simple fact that the purchase order also included two newly developed engines that had to be worked on and rebuilt. Those engines were obviously far more than $5,000 each, which means the $5,000 toilet seat was far less than $5,000. The engines were probably 20 grand apiece or more.
@@lordgarion514 It's hard to talk sense to the clueless!
Somebody has to replace where Boeing is dropping the ball across it's entire product line. It just goes to show ya, when chasing profits over ethics, even a great aerospace company like Boeing used to be, can fall into ruin a damage their reputation beyond repair.
ULA reuse is so far a pipe dream.
There is of course another dimension here. Even if BlueOrigin fail they can should still be able to use Starship (but will need refuelling). So awarding carefully worded contrast to Blue Origin is not as risky as it sounds.
Hope everything works out best as possible with your folks, thanks for continuing to post content.
heres my question; if spacex developed a non reusable starship; no reentry, heatshield, flaps, header tanks, typical fairings; could it do a geo or lunar orbits?
Make Starship three stages and expendable and it could get to the moon. The Saturn 5 launched Skylab into low earth orbit. Skylab replaced the Saturn 5's third stage. In other words, the "Starship" booster is very similar to the first stage of the Saturn 5 rocket and the Second stage, and 3rd, similar to "Starship" part.
I appreciate the fact you beg a lot less for support now... good journalism again
There is more too this than what meets the eye. We still do not know what the status of Blue Origin's bid for ULA is. This could be a signal that Blue Origin is probably going to buy ULA. I agree the only thing that Blue Origin has somewhat proven out is the BE-4 and the BE-3 engines along with some capability of reusability with New Shepard. They have yet to launch a New Glen rocket or any orbital class rocket. The only thing that makes sense in all of this would be a potential sale of ULA to Blue Origin.
I really like your approach on this one. Well thought out and a great basis of where we really are vs. the untested hopes of BO. ❤
Great info and updates, thanks
Jordan, thanks for this video. I hope all is well with you and your family.
!!!!!!! Thanks for the updates!!!!!
the Falcon Heavy Center core cannot be a repurposed regular core. It was initially designed for them to be interchangeable, but they had to abandon that during development
I totally agree with you, SpaceX should be rewarded.
Remember, the government likes to have redundancy plans... it's good for competition, bidding wars, and backup plans. It's strategically to have Boing space pods, SpaceX pods, etc. And multiple rockets, even if they have similar specs.
Thank you, Angry. Government agencies like having two vendors available to do the same job. The only way there's a second vendor that isn't Boeing is to feed contracts to BO until it can get it done.
Well to be fair, if they build it eventually it will become Old Glenn, if you never build it it's always new
Very educational for me, Thanks.
Blue Origin an expert at sending animations into space.
The military really doesn’t care about cost. They have yet to pass a financial audit and the last one stated there are improperly accounted for transactions totaling $21 trillion dollars. Even if only a small fraction are fraudulent, you can buy several countries with that amount of money.
It's beyond my comprehension to understand how someone can get any kind of contract for a job which they have 0 experience. Imagine giving to rebuild roof of your house to someone who had the best equipment but never ever did the actual job. Hard pass for me. I do really hope they very first flight will be successful and they better don't explode their very first rocket on their very first flight.
Life is not about "what you deserve". In this case it's about what we need. They'll produce or lose.
The grease is strong with this one.
Nice video shots of Blue Origin factory, everything look pristine !
Cause it's never been used. There aren't even scuff marks from shoes in there.
@@mycroft16 Well spotted ! More like a showroom.
Great videos, Angry.
Corruption at its finest.
Blue Origin is operating the 'old space' way that NASA is comfortable with, lots of paperwork to show that they can't possibly fail.
This is why they are trusted.
Trust is born of actually launching something and not destroying things. You can't trust what doesn't exist. Lots of paperwork isn't trustworthy. It's just risk averse. It doesn't prove anything other than you are unwilling to test early, test often, and iterate rapidly. Even NASA has stated several times that they can take numerous lessons from SpaceX's approach to development, embracing failure to learn.
Super Heavy New Glen and Super Heavy Starship.
Three boosters each.
We're gonna need a bigger flame trench.
Well they know that daddy will sue if they don’t give BO contracts so…. We’re also unconfirmed whether starship can deliver to TLI as we haven’t seen a payload variant of the vehicle yet so I don’t believe it’s safe to reach conclusions there yet, or they may potentially be able to set up fuel depot infrastructure in LEO and utilize that instead. Or what if they expend it? There’s just too many variables there.. Those will likely be ready before new Glenn too. We’re just gonna have to see how this pans out. NG is a good looking rocket and man I want to see it fly but man we need it to fly and fly properly before we can even get a good idea of what it can do.
@Jordan-
Great analysis! Would you consider creating a video Why Fairing production and development so expensive?
All the best,
M-
gee whiz , the lighting in the BO shop(s) is outstanding
well ... what specex needs is an orbital only bus, to use to boost stuff from leo
Its a wait and see for me ! But basicly it all narrows down to cost per flight and what is really needed for the time ! Amazon's kuiper project is already bust and prob will never be able to compete with starlink especially with elon dropping costs %50 !
The biggest disadvantage of New Glenn is that is does not exist... For the rest it seems like a nice plan, but plans are easy. So far BO has managed to pass the Karman line which the nazis managed more than 80 years ago... Keep it up! Soon you'll reinvent the Hula Hoop or the Frisbee! Imagine the possibilities once they find out how mobile phones work!
It’s the job of the government to promote all U.S. businesses. The bigger issue is why the government refuses to invest more in space technology and impedes the progress of fast moving companies like SpaceX all while China is eating our dogfood and we create wage slaves for people going to college making higher education unrealistic for most.
I see (and hear) everything. However I feel that BO may actually, quietly, developing New Armstrong in the background... New Glenn being the precursor...
ULA's failures has lead to a back up of satellites.
And NASA selected a never flown rocket with a never flown lunar lander to get their astronauts back on the moon!
NASA doesn't want to get back to the moon. They want to create jobs in powerful Senators districts and do a bunch of make work stuff and PowerPoint presentations while literally promising the moon "one day". Sadly, NASA was a political creation first and foremost since 1958. Anything else they do is secondary.
You mean two never flown rockets. Starship and New Glenn.
The contract for SpaceX was a development contract though. The one for Blue Moon Mk2 is an actually landing contract for the 2029 Artemis V mission. An actual crewed landing mission contracted to a company with no lander, and no launch vehicle. Vs a contract to a company that was in active development and had already had precursor test flights and it was ONLY for development of a lander, not an actual specific mission landing.
The Curse of the Rocket Equation strikes again!
It's not what you know it's who you know!
It makes sense.
They need to spread the money to ensure SpaceX does not secure monopoly control.
The government should seize BO and give it 50/50 to Stoke Aero and Rocket Lab.
The ULA, BO, Arianespace, and ISRO launchers all exploit a hydrolox upper stage to be more efficient for delivery to GEO. However it is difficult to see what possible *future* applications there are in which a multiton GEO spacecraft is better than a LEO constellation, especially since SpaceX offers a mass-produced satellite bus at a very economical price. BO and ULA must lose money for the forseeable interest on every single mission, whereas SpaceX can make a healthy profit on every Falcon mission, and the biggest advantage of Starship is not its bigger payload, it is that each Starship launch will cost SpaceX at most half as much as a Falcon launch.
Seems that it would make sense for a vehicle to actually exist and flown at least 3 missions successfully before being awarded any freaking USSF contracts. Ridiculous.
Well, BO is going to buy ULA and then transition all of their contracts over to New Glenn as soon as they can.
Easy, just strap a couple extra boosters on either side of Starship a la Falcon heavy. /s
Where is blue origin's street cred🔥🔥🔥
They are desperate to break up SpaceX's monopoly
Will you be doing a video on the current state of the starliner? Looks like their return to earth is going to be delayed while they address the issues with the helium leaks.
In BO's defence, they have an almost complete set of hardware and they've done fit checks with at at the launch pad. Not saying they are going to suddenly make super progress, but their lane 1 on ramp for military payloads is dependent on them demonstrating their rocket this year. As of current date, there are really only a handful of options. For lane 2 (ie the big payloads to all orbits) we have just falcon9/9 heavy and Vulcan. This current round is for Lane 1.
I haven't finished the video yet... but you were mentionning new Glenn being made of much lighter materials than Starship. That probably was in the plans when their fancy animations were made, but haven't they been building a prototype out of stainless steel since? I'm nont sure if that will be a factor in the end.
100% right Angry!❤
Personally, I believe that this move is just to provide another provider in case one of them has a mishap that prevents them from flying. So I believe they are just hedging their bets just in case. This is especially since Space Force is concerned right now that ULA will not be able to meet their current commitments.
Problem with Bo is that it got preferential treatment, while companies like relativity, Stoke, Firefly or rocketlab, while they have at LEAST as much achievements as Bo have issues to get those contracts. Bo is treated on pair with SpaceX, very PROVEN company with a lot of experience. I am very big fan of competition, I wish Bo success with their new Glenn ... But why Bo can grab contracts while companies I mentioned couldn't? Bo is not more advanced than those companies. Is FAR behind SpaceX. Yet Bo get contracts whenever they will care to participate.
If they have a payload for the volume, it's worth it.
If B.O. can't deliver on their promises, those USSF contracts won't mean anything and would soon be transferred to proven operators.
I’ve done my research and Mr. Wright if I’m correct your right! Unless there are mobile station (methyl oxide) scatted about space, Starship maybe a twinkle in someone eye. I have a suspicion that the first few moon manned landings will involve some expendable vehicles.
BO does not deserve any contacts until he flies a rocket. Prove to us u can get it to orbit
Blue Origin's achievements cannot be compared to those of SpaceX or ULA. While Blue Origin has made progress in suborbital flight with its New Shepard rocket, it has not yet matched the extensive accomplishments of SpaceX or ULA in orbital missions and human spaceflight. According to NASA, SpaceX has saved the agency over $40 billion by providing cost-effective launch services. ULA, historically dependent on Russian engines for its rockets, and Boeing, which faced delays and additional costs in developing the Starliner capsule, illustrate the challenges of competing with SpaceX. Boeing received significantly more funding than SpaceX but still delivered a more expensive and initially faulty spacecraft. Given these issues, ULA and Boeing have struggled to match SpaceX's efficiency and reliability, raising questions about their continued government contract awards.
ULA uses Blue engines.
@@iamscoutstfu The ULA rocket that carried Starliner used Russian RD-180 engines. Their new Vulcan rocket now uses Blue Origin's BE-4 engines. ULA's rockets are too expensive, not reusable and not as realibale as SpaceX Rockets. Starliner is a joke
Don't forget, Jordan, that Starship is projected to get bigger. I imagine future editions of Starship will widen the Ship, as well. Personally, I'd be very happy if SpaceX makes Starship aerodynamic, and therefore flying towards a runway landing. Annnnnnndddd....mind your B.P.!
Well done. I think this was awarded based on BE-4 performance on Vulcan inaugural and Bezos $$ to the "right" pols + authorities.
The extended fairings, I assume, are recoverable? Amortizing the development cost over several missions will bring the price down -- or provide a healthy profit. I'm betting that the design for extended fairings is already finished. SpaceX only has to build that while Blue Origin has yet to achieve orbit. Let Blue Origin try and fail, or never try at all. That won't bode well for future contracts. In any case, they only have the right to bid.
Theoretically couldn’t the starship booster push a cheaper and lighter non reusable Starship into a higher orbit?
Possibly making this mission more economical on a Starship than a New Glen?
Someone with Kerbal should test this.
New Glen doesn't "have" anything aside from a test artifact it has no engines it has no faring because at thins point you still have no rocket..
Thanks for the update and views 🇺🇲🇺🇦
Nice, there were several points here that I didn't know about (and I thought I had this subject covered).
That said: I'm not sure if you accounted for Starship V3 (as it's a year off, maybe further). That has 200t (reusable) to LEO and likely 40t or so to GSO. This is achieved by increasing Starship V2 from 6-9 engines in the 2nd stage, 33 to 35 in the first, with Raptor V3 rated at 280t each and about 25-30m extended fuel tankage split between the two stages.
So that iteration can go pretty much anywhere you want to with substantial payload.
I expect they will perfect reusability by 2025Q2 (both stages) and ramp up testing Starship V3 by 2025Q4 as they will want V3 perfected well before their 09/26 moon launch (which I would expect to take place between 09/26 and 09/27 as there is no hard deadline save well before the 2030 Chinese landing (which might be pushed up). The much greater tankage will cut back on the number of requisite flights to the depot that will fuel the Lunar Lander. They will also want to send an unmanned mission first. Perhaps with a score or two of Teslabots to set things up (modified for radiation, etc). Musk expects to have at least 1000 bots working in his factories by end of 2025... so not too far fetched. (Currently he has 2 in the factories and a bunch more doing busy work in the administrative offices.) Might make a nice hedge against space suits running behind schedule. (ie a couple of astronauts stay in the rocket to direct work gangs of robots without transmission lag.
I know Spacex was confident of refueling a Starship variant with enough fuel to go from LEO to Lunar surface and back to LEO well before V3 was a thing.
Star factory should be putting out at Least 1 starship per month (designed for 100/year) by 2025Q2 which should yield multiple (4-8) tankers and 3 operational launch pads to tank up the "depot" (likely a modified V3 tanker) before it can bleed off too much fuel (esp if they use Skylab type umbrellas to keep the fuel cool.
It all sounds like a fairing tale.
Maybe somebody at NASA bought a Cybertruck.