The Circle of Wildfire: D&D 5e
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- Опубликовано: 6 июл 2024
- My analysis of the Circle of Wildfire druid - a very underrated subclass.
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• The Circle of Stars Dr...
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Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
1:43 Subclass overview
2:38 Circle Spells (level 2)
6:20 Summon Wildfire Spirit (level 2)
13:56 Tactics analysis for Wildfire Spirit
19:32 Duration discussion
20:02 Enhanced Bond (level 6)
21:28 Cauterizing Flames (level 10)
23:14 Blazing Revival (level 14)
23:55 Circle of Wildfire final analysis
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Игры
Increased frequency of Treantmonk's videos is one of the best effects of Tashas cauldron of everything.
Circle of Wildfire is a great, fantastic even, druid.
....I still want _fireball_ .
And Firebolt, which I believe they also got in the UA.
Just ask your DM mine said yes, because fireball is cool af
@@morkka Honestly, _fire bolt_ doesn't concern me. _Produce flame_ is a prefectly acceptable substitute. It isn't as good. But it is good enough especially with all the other features. I will gladly trade away _fire bolt_ for _burning hands_ anyways.
.....but _fireball_ ... I love it too much.
I'd probably allow it to my players if they trade Fireball for the damage of Fiery Teleportation :P
You have a fire spirit man. What more could you ask for... aside from fireball.
A note on the free spells: getting Cure Wounds for free is great, it lets you prepare whatever druid spells you want without feeling obligated to take up one slot for healing, and I like that a lot. More heals are always great
so at level 2 you can get access to a powered down flame version of Thunderstep but you can do it multiple times without using a spell slot. That sounds REALLY good to me.
With multiple creatures teleported!
Yeah... it is really good
Pull out your allies, burn up your enemies.
I'm glad they don't get fireball. Whenever I have a caster at the table with fireball, its all they ever do when confronted with 3 or more enemies. Even though fireball abuse is a joke at this point among my friends, everyone STILL just casts fireball whenever enemies are near each other. Its so funny to watch my light cleric thoughtfully ponder what to do for several seconds.....and then cast fireball. Its like they werent actually thinking about their optiona, but rather about their bills and Jury duty, then suddenly remembered that they were playing dnd : "oh, people are looking at me, uhhhh ........ FIREBUALL!!!"
i _love_ that tasha has given us other ways to use druid wild shapes, because i never use it normally so having a way to use a feature that my playstyle neglects normally is awesome.
If you have to summon your fiery pet during combat. ambushed and it wasn't out yet. Use your action to summon it among foes, use your bonus action to teleport it back to your side. 2d6 followed by 1d6+prof bonus isn't bad damage at lower levels
yeah and you'll normally be hitting 2 enemies, do really the damage is doubled, pretty effective up until very high levels
I want to add to the Fire-spirit:
1. you don't have to teleport your friends to a place next to the spirit. Meaning the spirit can scatter your friends in a 15ft radius area - basically reorganizing the battlefield!
2. You can also move both before and after the teleportation - giving the spirit a 45 speed. Often enough to stay out of trouble.
I was going to comment with this same thought, and it's very in keeping with the theme of the subclass. You literally move your allies around the battlefield like a chaotic swirling wildfire! I would describe it with awesome visual effects like sparks and embers showering and shooting around as this fire spirit swirls and dashes through the air like a crazeflame, and you can help your team burn through everything. I really want to give this class a try!
I guess its more up to your DM but I don't think by the book you can use your movement after. It says "In combat, the spirit shares your initiative count, but it takes its turn immediately after yours." So technically since its after the Druids turn they cannot move after. My DM probably wouldn't go for it with that wording, but again its up to the DM to allow. Thanks for the first tip I didn't realize they didn't have to be adjacent after.
@@pickle_pete7637 I did not mean the Druid, sorry. Just that the Spirit can use its movement before and after teleporting. :D My point was: The spirit does not have to end their turn right next to all enemies after teleporting.
@@Magnushamann ah yes, i see now. you are correct :D
Also the spirit can teleport UP.
I love the Druid, and the newest subclasses made me love it even more.
wildfire + staff of the woodlands have been insane for me, incredible spell selection for any adventuring day
I have yet to conceive of a druid character I thought would be compelling to roleplay, but when the Wildfire subclass came out I thought "Maybe..." I'm glad to know it gets the Treantmonk seal of approval!
A lot of talk in here mourning the removal of fireball from the UA, but as someone who is playing a Tier 1 game with a player who has had to switch from UA to published Wildfire Druid, I can say for sure that fire bolt is the bigger loss. Staying on theme and switching to either produce flame (hello melee distance) or create bonfire (goodbye concentrating on something useful) as your go-to ranged damage cantrip is an awful step down from fire bolt. WotC must have decided that it was too blatant of a leg up on Circle of the Land for Wildfire to have a good distance cantrip.
Kobold can help out there.
I like this subclass mostly bc I can't help but giggle at the idea of a fiery small creature such as a chipmunk, chicken, or hummingbird just jumping into an ally's radius and just poofing them a few feet out of danger XD
Exactly what I was thinking for my spirit! When not in combat it could live in my characters beard.
Late to the party but this Druid’s 6th level ability adds to the Produce Flame Cantrip. That’s 3d8 for a cantrip; not too shabby!
21:10 Cone spells have a range of self, so are excluded by this feature.
You could argue that by including the cone length in the range section of the spell description the spell has two ranges one of which is a range other than self.
@@Sangtrone The range is self, it targets an area specified in the brackets
@@PAPP0NE The target is self, but the range is what is included in the cone. This is what is meant by the notation of Self (distance), and is confirmed as RAI by the developers. This is why GFB and BB are still usable with warcaster.
I noticed that the fiery teleportation ability doesn't say anything about the teleportees having to follow the spirit and end up near it. Its reasonable to assume that was intended, which your example implies that's what you believe; but there's no language to imply, much less require, that they follow the spirit rather than end up anywhere within 15' of their own original position. So you could use it for tactical repositioning and not just rescue operations.
She comes down from Yellow Mountain
On a dark flat land she rides
On a pony she named Wildfire
With a whirlwind by her side
On a cold Faerun night
Oh, they say she died one winter
When there came a killing frost
And the pony she named Wildfire
Busted down his stall
In a blizzard he was lost
She ran calling Wiiiiiildfire
She ran calling Wiiiiiildfire
She ran calling _Wi-i-i-i-ldf-i-i-re_
@Rubedo Alaberti Thanks, fam!
Produce Flame for this Druid deal more damage than a normal Firebolt for other classes (after lvl 6). That added to the pet is a decent "filler" damage if you don't what to spend to much resources and still be useful. And if you are ok with spending... well add Conjure Animal/WoodLandBeins to the party.
That is exactly the reason why they removed Fire Bolt and Fireball from the subclass. They left Flame Strike though. But a lot of people are too dumb to figure this out I guess.
25000 subscribers, congratulations Chris 🙂👍🏻
Nice work as allways! I like how you analize the classes and subclasses, and in a lot of videos you show me interesting ways to understand how they work. As a sorcerer player I'm waiting for the clockwork soul ^^. Thanks again!
Glad you enjoy it!
I'm creating one of these characters and in doing my research I ran across your video. I just thought you would appreciate me saying that of all the youtubers, mainstream or not, your video was not only helpful but the most informative that I've seen. New subscriber.
Treantmonk videos make Monday the best day of the week.
I'm playing a wildfire druid and loving it. And watching this video today inspired a few new things to try so thank you!
just started watching your videos, love them, waiting on an eloquence bard build one day.
This is a really cool subclass. Great video sharing your thoughts
I'm currently playing this subclass and it's awesome! Regarding to the spirit's bad AC- my DM rarely attacks it, so I'm sending it into battle instead of me, also because I can cast spells through it. I think it works much better then letting the spirit just hang in the back
Its also one of the only ranged pets. The only other ranged pet also has 13 AC.
@@cp1cupcake artifcer artilerest torrents kinda count as pets too. They have legs
@@theeye8276 tbf I've never seen anyone use the turret's ability to walk I've always seen artillerists either hold the turret themselves or turn their homunculus servant into an armed and dangerous drone so it has more mobility (also keep in mind that there's nothing stopping you from giving your homunculus servant barding I'd recommend half plate barding because it has 15 dex so it gets the max dex bonus from Medium armor, you could also give the homunculus some magic items to help it's survival)
I love this one. Making a skull kid and fairy and that boom and able to teleport straight up or off to the side is quite a nice useful utility and still can shapechange if need be to a few options.
The Enhanced Bond is Sean Connery.
I think flaming sphere gets a bad reputation when it comes to the wildfire Druid.
To start, the pair are different tools and it’s nice to have a backup if you’re reserving wildshape uses or have run out. But in addition to that, flaming sphere has the utility of setting things on fire while the wildfire spirit does not.
Equally, if you’ve got an ally with sentinel or another speed reducing ability, you can reliably trigger two instances of flaming sphere damage, one when you ram a creature and one again when it fails to move during its turn.
Beyond that, it wouldn’t be super optimal but I look forward to turning into a constrictor snake and repeatedly burning a grappled target with flaming sphere. Combined with Hex I picked up from Fey Touched and something to buff concentration later on, it could be an interesting tactic to immobilise a foe.
In fact, IIRC, the constrictor snake restrains the target so, disadvantage on the DEX save for flaming sphere, Hex brings disadvantage to escape the grapple and both me and my allies get advantage to hit. Beautiful.
I think it would be a great if you could add a couple of minutes discussing multiclass options when you go through these new subclasses (for us folks who love multiclassing).
As with most classes, i think 2-3 levels of fighter should mix in well for con save prof (if starting as fighter), action surge (imo the best ability in the game outside of high level spells) and fighting style bonus
So for all intents and purposes the fire spirit has a d4 hit die. 5 HP per level minus 2 from the con bonus is 3, the same as the non rolled for a d4 hit die (following the average rounded up trend).
Also I was always a fan of how the only resurrection spell druids had was reincarnation. It felt thematically appropriate in that druidic magic is different than divine magic. But hey, that's my 2 cents
I'm intrigued by a wildfire druid/forge cleric. Fire damage spells and resistance to fire! I think going to level six in one and then the other would work well.
Only downside is that it would be hard to find non metal heavy armor
@@dragonhearthx8369 there is no downside with using metal armor on a druid it's just a roleplay thing sure some druids could still treat metal as a "taboo" while some just wouldn't care I mean warforged druid exist kinda hard to not use metal when you are metal
This is just one of the new classes that effectively allow you to get a JoJo Stand.
I don't know how familiar you are with that concept, but it would be cool to see builds based on it.
wildfire druid can be an amazing hit and run character in melee while also being nasty at range kind of like a warlock with more spell slots
While correct flaming sphere probably won't be cast as often, I think it's a nice little spell to have in your back pocket if the pet gets downed & you want to save a wildshape use/haven't taken a short rest to recharge them.
Holy crap. Something about turning cones into circle aoes by firing them downwards is so rad. Burning hands (that you have for free) becomes a mini fireball.
I have been corrected that cones have a range of self and therefore don't qualify. Lots of other spells do though.
@@TreantmonksTemple well, even if you cant cast it through the familar, getting personal flight some other way still allows for downward cones.
I’m so glad you were drawn to the teleportation (with flight!) ability too. Something you said at the end interested me, though-taking this as a 2-level dip. I’ve been hesitant to multiclass with Tasha’s pet classes because the hit points of the creatures scale with level. Granted, they’re pretty fragile anyway, but having just 15 or so HP seems like you’re throwing it away.
If the enemy blasts it, yeah, it's dead for sure. Still, that's true of FF as well, and I often think it's worth a dip in Wizard for FF.
@@TreantmonksTemple That’s a good point! I was thinking of going Ranger5, multiclassing druid or cleric later for more casting. I’ll be taking Wildfire more seriously now. Maybe describing the Wildfire Spirit as a fiery bird-shaped being to emphasize that it flies and isn’t particularly durable.
This was a very useful video. I was just wondering if the fire spirit completely replaces wild shape or if you have the option to use both (not @ same time obviously)
From -> I am doing nothing, let me watch this Treant's video about this bad subclass
To -> DAM, that sounds fun and mechanically very decent, I am so going to give it a go!
Hey so theoretically as a wildfire druid I could have my fire spirit grapple me and then use its movement speed to fly me around at 15ft per round. I can hold my action to thornwhip and use my bonus action to command the spirit to grapple me, then on the creatures turn (immedoatedly after mine) use the creatures movememt. And trigger the thornwhip when ready to do 2d6 dammage and pull enemies 10ft into the air, then do another 1d6 damage as they fall prone. And essentially use the spirit as a way to gain a flying speed of 15ft (20ft with longstrider).
With regards of the addition of revivify instead of fireball from the UA, druids get revivify anyways in TCE, its not nearly as good as getting a spell not on your spell list.
It is a preparation and so you don’t have to use a slot you just have it and that really is a good. Just because there is a better scenario does not make this really good.
@@leodouskyron5671 I'm not saying its bad. just that I don't really see how getting a good spell they already have prepared for free is better than getting a free, good spell not on your list.
@@cp1cupcake I think Revivify is a decent spell to have permanently prepared in an extra slot. I mean, I think the right way to handle that spell is to always have a scroll with it, but permanently prepared is the next best thing.
I agree
Also flamestrike sucks
@@cp1cupcake I hear you there. “The perfect should never be the enemy of the good. “ think about it like this, if they gave you a spell like Misty Step - a good spell but worthless to you with your wildfire spirit. And consider how many extra spells many other Druids get. I am not saying you are bad or wrong but that this is a balanced approach as the spells are balanced. useful, thematic and free. I see that as a win and not something that would cause real issues for a DM to balance against. Not an embarrassment of riches but good enough. Just my POV that MANY do not agree with.
I love the wildfire druid. I took the Magic Initiate feat and took Fire Bolt and Green-Flame Blade. My long rest spell is Find Familiar because I like the idea of having another 'fire' spirit around and my DM allows that familiars can use the Help action in combat.
I know that Green-Flame blade isn't that great for this kind of character, but It does work well with
Shillelagh if I ever find myself stuck in melee.
I just love the theme of this subclass.
You cant use wisdom with firebolt sadly.
Familiars being able to use the help action is a normal thing it isn't a houserule
I want to play play one as a smallfolk and have the spirit as my twin. I think the ability that you can cast spells through the spirt, kind of like the trickery domain (2 level dip into cleric?)
I figure flaming sphere can be a good backup for the fire spirit if you run out of uses.
Fiery Teleportation, like with the Echo Knight's teleport ability, is great for a party member with polearm master, as the baddies will trigger attacks of opportunity when they enter reach again.
Its unsure whether that works, currently the top answer for teleportation vs polarm master on the rules website stock exchange says that teleporting does not trigger the opportunity attack.
@@theeye8276 I meant that if you teleport a character with polearm master out of reach of the baddies, when the baddies move back into the reach of the character with polearm master, they will provoke the attacks of opportunity
You asked for a clever use for arcane gate in your guide to wizards, and I actually have one. It can be used together with glyph of warding and/or symbol in order to create a semi mobile blasting platform. You can't move glyph of warding.. but if you say set up a dozen glyphs in the entrance of the boss room inside the safety of leomund's tiny hut (wall of force to cover casting time)... well you turn its lair into your lair.
I love the Wildfire Druid; the pet is fantastic and really adds a tactical element to combat encounters. From an early level you can take Spell Sniper doubling the range of Thorn Whip and learning Booming Blade. You can BB an enemy then teleport away. You can even teleport into the middle of an area of Spike Growth without taking damage because you are not moving within it or you can drag a monster into Spike Growth whilst standing on the opposite side of it. The Wildfire Spirit gives you unparalleled battlefield positioning so you can use your concentration to make the ground a nightmare for monsters whilst moving about relatively freely. Obviously, this requires buy in from your party. Once I get to 5th level I want to take 3 levels of Swarmkeeper so that my 60 foot range Thorn Whip moves a monster 25 feet and my Booming Blade also shunts a monster 15 feet potentially through Spike Growth.
I'm currently playing as a Fire Genasi wildfire druid. One of the other players is a red draconic sorcerer with an obsession for fire. As you can imagine they are best friends!
All you need now is a Light cleric
I made a (semi)BBEG as a wildfire druid.
While writing him, it came to mind that wildfire doesnt need to be red/orange/yellow in colour. It could be a more necrotic look, like blue/purple/black.
Plus, the wildfire spirit can have any form, for me it was the form of a pseudodragon, but for a player it could be a fox, or squirrel, which really gives it an extra RP bonus
Your analysis very much lines up with what I've seen of a Wildfire Druid in play.
As a DM I think Fiery Teleportation is actually kind of OP due to its effects on the exploration pillar, notably the fact that it essentially nullifies many challenges at a quite low level. I think it should be limited to something like proficiency mod/day.
They're currently about to hit 7th level. I'm not sure what it'll be like at higher levels, where the damage won't be that great.
I play a Wild fire Druid and everytime you say "Pet" I imagine Ash glaring at me lol
Would cauterizing flames appear when summoned or conjured creatures die? I kind of like the idea of having more tactical positions on the board.
Could you use cauterizing flames after combat? If so could be effectively a short rest of healing.
The flames last for one minute, so if your party fights and then moves quickly enough, sure. Do note you can only use the reaction it needs to work a number of times matching your proficiency bonus.
17:00 "that would be triple the damage of flame seed"
1d6+PB is good from levels 1-4. Its better than nothing levels 5-7. Level 8 and beyond, 1d6+PB is nothing.
At those levels, I would rather upcast flaming sphere and use my bonus action on moving that, but having it out for the bonus dmg and the ability to save others, but not use it for damage. 3d6+1d8 ~15 > 3.5+4.
If you were to retort that scaling that aoe would be too much (which I disagree with from the getgo), then scale the flame seed. Make it an interesting decision between low dmg for multiple targets or okay dmg to a single target.
But even that isnt happening.
While I agree with Flaming Sphere as a Bonus Action dealing more damage than Fiery Teleportation, it does require concentration. I've been using my BA for Flaming Sphere a lot while playing this subclass, but a spell such as Wall of Fire may be a better use of concentration once you get to level 7, and you can spend your bonus action *potentially* dealing damage to multiple creatures with Fiery Teleportation.
Obviously, if you're facing more single enemy encounters than hordes, then Flaming Sphere may be a better call in that situation.
@@BlueFox571 sure, you have no reason not to have the spirit out, especially if you know a fight is coming, but its damage dealing capabilites quickly become obselete, to the point where you will only use it because you have nothing better to do
I really like both of these new subclasses, they seem thematic and powerful without being broken. Poor Land Druid is pretty much strictly outclassed now though.
I think choosing a character for a target theme and the storytelling is more important than damage output
@@ImaginationHobbies yeah but nobody likes having their character be strictly outclassed by their friends.
Inb4 "I MADE A WIZARD WITH 5 INT AND HAD THE BEST TIME MY PLAYERS THOUGHT IT WAS HILARIOUS" great, good for you. Some of us like to actually play a character and not a joke
@@getthegoons choosing something slightly sub optimal is not the same as a wizard with 4 int. Maybe to a selfish person it feels like the same. But thats not reality
Can you look at the Drake warden ranger next?
Question, what if you use the fairy teleportation since you can use it on any creature of your choice, to snag up one or two of the enemies you're facing and teleport them 15 feet away, and since the pet can hover, would you allow as a DM, the pat to hover over the edge of a cliff when it reappears with its targets. I can imagine hilarity of the pet exploding in a brush fire to the enemy members disappear from that group reappearing 15 ft away over the edge of say a Battlement materializing in midair and falling to the ground below. Either outright killing them or at least taking them out of immediate combat taking some pressure off of your other party members. But then I always have been one to think outside the box with all of my spell uses. Most memorable by far was the first time I did something like this and use levitate versus a giant gar that our party was fighting in a pit of water in undermountain so very long ago. It's a giant fish out of water it's not much threat anymore and the party was able to finish it off at its leisure this happened way back in 97
The teleportation only affects willing creatures.
Little late to the party here, but Cauterizing Flames stands out to me as extremely interesting because the flame appears no matter what. The only limitation on use here is the reaction to use that flame. I think with all the good DMs I've ever played with they take the appearance of something on the battlefield as something that would affect enemies. So just having a bunch of flames appear from dead enemies could possibly dissuade enemies from entering that space, especially if you've used the reaction once already early in the combat to deal damage. Making the threat of the fire useful even if you wouldn't elect to use it.
I mean having fire be on a corpse that was recently set ablaze wouldn't be too alarming
Chris: Have you created a video with an optimized build that included Wildfire Druid?
I think a good way to track is to have a bunch of 1x1 red squares to put down where creatures die
making a small creature wildfire druid means your fire spirit can be your flame twin
In the Wildfire Spirit text, it is not written that it moves or has reactions when it is in Combat other than Battle Smith and Primal Companion, do you think this was a flaw in the text or is it intentional?
An enemy is approaching the spirit and the spirit remains still, even though it has more wis and int than the Battle Smith and the Primal Companion, and even if the enemy leaves the spirit space, the spirit does not have an attack of opportunity.
I upset my DM when I teleported the barbarian out of a shambling mounds grapple.
The level 6 ability isn't limited to leveled spells, so you can also do things like have your spirit hover over an enemy when you cast thorn whip and potentially knock them prone or drop a thunderclap before teleportation.
Thorn whip seems like an excellent use of this ability. Potentially draw them 30' diagonally above an ally with SG, then they fall prone within...
@@TreantmonksTemple "SG"?
@@bigdream_dreambig Sorry, Spirit Guardians
Order Cleric 1/Wildfire Druid X is a fun amount of battlefield control
Echo Knight with a dip in Wildfire Druid? Maybe a bit to much Bonus Action conflict, but might be fun.
I think that would be tough to work effectively.
What is the difference between the circle spells from wildfire and land druids?
you can also fiery teleport to reset the pounce/charge abilities of your summoned beasts. Teleport them 15ft away do fire damage, have a clear shot for your AoE spell, then move your Elk 5ft back then 20ft forward for more damage
Like most of the tasha's pets, the wildfire spirit takes its turn after yours, so it can't move anything out of the way of a spell you want to cast on your turn that round.
@@Malisteen oh good point, my DM lets us control it simultaneously but RAW yeah you need a good spot in the initiative to set up a good AoE.
@@Malisteen what's to stop you using a held action for the area spell after your spirit goes?
@@charlessaintpe8574 oh that's really nice 👌
@@charlessaintpe8574 One thing to keep in mind is you need to use concentration to ready a spell.
My problem with removing fireball is that we're not getting anything new, because in the optional rules, the added spells for the druid, revivify is one of them. so you're not getting something that the other druids don't have, you just have it prepared all the time.
I agree w Ibrahim. I have access to all the regular Druid spells. I think getting a non Druid spell is better especially one that does AOE damage with no concentration. Those are rare. I was excited to play WF Druid from UA but now I think not. I’ll go with Land Druid, take the Misty Step and Mirror Image spells , get to 4th level and take shadow touched feat and move in and out of combat as multi class Gloomstalker Ranger/Druid with Invisibility and Inflict Wounds. I can do archery from range w more damage than those early WF spells. Maybe I try and find a necklace of fireballs!
Most of the Land circles have many druid spells included in their lists. Also, remember "additional druid spells" is optional (I won't include them in my games - I like spells being more exclusive to certain classes), and just like new subclasses, every option you add to the game will affect the game balance in one way or another.
@@joeld2925 That's Fair
Is it possible to cast 'Mage Armor' or 'Enlarge/Reduce' on your wildfire spirit?
Yes
Are Clerics up next? I am so confused about the Twilight Cleric's Channel Divinity. Can a sphere "filled with dim light" be illuminated by bright light from a torch or the sun or not?
I can't see why not
@@TreantmonksTemple Yeah, it reminded me a lot of what you talked about in your "theoretical optimization" video. Features say what they can do. And this feature just says that it fills a sphere with dim light, with no mention of surpressing bright light.
This of course means that the Twilight Cleric does not have a portable option for activating Steps of the Night during the day, though I am pretty sure it is a very strong subclass regardless.
Thanks for your input!
I wonder what would be good multi class match for WF Druid?
What would happen to no metal armor restriction if PC is starting with medium or heavy armor proficiancy?
I always recommend tortle for non moon druids. 17 ac that sidesteps the metal armor restriction. Light cleric would be thematic and would get the bonus to fire and healing (if you make it to enhanced bond at druid level 6). Plus your elemental adept: fire would be doing double duty.
@@docnevyn5814 I don't get why would you choose the Light domain. You already have most of the domain spells with wildfire. Yes you get fireball but you double down on burning hand, flaming sphere and scorching ray. The light domain doesn't give any bonus to fire spells, it just gives fire spells that you already have. Please enlighten me
@@sharkforce8147 i dont want to come across as toxic but i still wanna correct the thing u said about metal armor being cold >.>
uhm i hope you are not implying body tight plate on bare skin, if so that is just not a thing. it would be insanely restrictive and very very painful for numerous reasons. and also not offer much protection.... and may even be a hazard.
Therefore padding is worn, a full suit of plate is therefore not cold, quite the opposite! the biggest issue with armor is the intense heat and avoiding overheating is the main restriction in battle. If you ever fought in a closed set of armor you will know exactly what i mean. There are numerous techniques and attempts to cool down soldiers wearing armor so having something colder would be amazing.
Sadly i also disagree on the "using animals for plate armor" idea. This is an opinion thou unlike the part before.
Unless we are talking dragonscales (which exists and has 15+2 AC) or tarasque armor (which im quite sure most DMs would make something up if you ever get there) then i dont quite see how that armor would be effective. Humans tried making decent protection out of animals - like armadillos turtles crocodiles and much more but it really never got better than wood and hide. A FAAR cry from any metal use not even talking about hardened high carbon full plate.
so creating something that would be on part with full plate would mean you think not only is it stronger than dragon scales but even better than steel which sorry i dont see any monsters for in D&D 5e below CR 20.
Bone and shells simply dont reach sufficient levels of resistance, and may even become brittle or fall apart over reasonably short periods of time to make it unviable as a business - espc when metal exists! Yes making armor is crazy hard and takes mastery and time but its still worth that time investment over spending a similar amount of effort on connection turtle shells that will become brittle.
Any DM should feel free to rule anything they like contradicting anything i just stated! but no DM should feel any obligation to do so or even tend towards that or see it as restricting if they dont. The game already accounts for things that can be made from monsters :)
3:29 I deeply disagree with the idea that somehow the wildfire druid got buffed from the UA version. Revivify is on the druid spell list now, so having it always prepared is a pretty minor benefit compared to the addition of fireball. Also burning hands is nice, but it falls off in power pretty quick. The additional first level spells really don't do much to improve the class, especially when you consider the loss of firebolt as well. Now don't get me wrong I don't think the druid is bad without fireball by any means. Having played one, I can say fireball and firebolt will both be greatly missed, but the wildfire druid functions perfectly fine without them. But these changes were ABSOLUTELY a nerf to the class. It was stripped of two of its best sources of damage while being given almost nothing it couldn't already do anyway.
Having Revivify prepared is on of the best things about that spell list. Any spell that has a huge impact in the right situation but is completely dead in any other situation is a spell I don't want to prepare. So just having it ready always is amazing.
I think some people think the wildfire spirit's dmg is low is because some people (myself included) treat aoe spells dmg evaluation as single target dmg since most mobs are irrelevant or dealt with by other spells. I prefer focusing on single target dpr than aoe. My DM also likes spacing mobs apart and sending multi-boss challenges more so aoe spells arent as efficient as its supposed to be. also probably why I dont miss fireball and happy to see scorching ray on this list (also the reason i like this most than circle of stars as scorching ray is one of my fave spells).
I wanted to say that I've really been enjoying your critical appraisals of new published content. You have a great perspective and spend a good amount of time explaining your perspective, something I find sorely lacking in a lot of discourse about d&d.
I'd be really curious to hear your thoughts on the new summon spells introduced in Tasha's. While they aren't as powerful as the summon spell druids already had access to (conjure animals), I generally think that spell was really poorly designed, especially when combined with class features like the shepherd has (I think that putting CR stat blocks in the hands of a player is generally a mistake for several reasons). The new summon spells, are generic, but give players all they need, don't bog down combat with multiple summons, and scale at least somewhat.
You're in luck! That's my next topic.
@@TreantmonksTemple That's awesome. I'll save my more in depth thoughts on the subject for that video, then. I'm really looking forward to it.
@@sharkforce8147 Okay, well, let me go ahead and explain my position, then, because ultimately, I disagree. I think conjure animals is out and out bad for the game in several ways. I think that animate dead (and danse macabre) are slightly better, but still problematic for several of the same reasons (which pains me, because I'm a necromancer fanboy deep down.
1) Conjure Animals presumes players having access to stats that aren't in a player book. For a lot of veteran d&d players, this isn't an issue. We all have access to all of the material anyway. It's important to remember, however, that this isn't supposed to be the default assumption. Players shouldn't be expected to know the monster manual. The spell does note that DMs will be able to provide these statistics to the player, but I don't actually think that's a good option at the table, either, for both pacing and transparency concerns.
2) Conjure animals (and all the other old summoning spells) give players access to material rated on the CR scale, a notoriously unreliable metric that does not serve as a good, consistent way to scale power available to player hands. As a power metric, it has to take into account a lot of factors that it just frankly can't. It's a decent guideline, but anyone who's been DMing for a while (that I know) generally only eyeballs it when trying to determine the actual difficulty of an encounter. If we don't trust it to do its job for its intended purpose, though, then why should I trust it as a metric of player power? Additionally, CR scaled entities are not designed with player use in mind, and were likely never balanced for that.
3) There might be less abusive ways to use conjure animals, but that doesn't change the optimal way to use it is often the most un-fun for large groups of the players at the table. Consider one of the most benign examples. When cast at 3rd level, you can summon one cr 2 creature (a giant elk), or eight cr 1/4 creatures (regular elk). The giant elk's attack bonus is only 1 higher. Its hooves do significantly more average damage (22 to 8), but its best attack is probably its ram because of its charge trait. This only does marginally more damage (11 to 6), but when you consider that you'll have eight regular elk, that's not a very compelling difference. A giant elk is significantly hardier with 42 hp to its smaller cousin's 13, but again, you'll have eight, which really means 104 hp on the field. Weaker to aoe, but that's still a pretty sizable difference. Its exacerbated by traits like the shepherd's bonus hp. While the bonus hp seems like it should scale well (using HD as a base), it turns out that HD don't scale reliably with CR. My 8 regular elk have 16 total HD to the 5 for the giant elk. Combine the above factors with the massive advantage this creates in the action economy and . . . I see few ways this isn't almost always the optimal use case for the spell.
Side note: The DMG provides swarm combat rules to allow for the adjudication of combat when using large numbers of similar/identical units to attack at once. This has been pointed to in the past as an answer for the slow-down caused by summon spells at the table. This is true to an extent, but I still have problems with it. I used to houserule that, while a player could command their summoned/animated creatures, their actions were still under DM control. I don't believe this was the original intention, but my hope was to curb the issue of a player taking ages to direct all their summons in play. My reasoning was that, while an elk will obey your orders, it doesn't have the tactical awareness to work perfectly with your party and the other elk. It doesn't work, though. A smart player just issues different verbal commands. They say things like, "Knock down all the kobolds" or "trample the sorcerer to death" and quickly get their summons working almost exactly as they wanted them. Then I still have to take all their turns. Slow down is only moderately improved. What's more, it doesn't actually address the power imbalance created by the above.
I think the new summon spells (and the new ranger animal companion archetypes) because they address all of these issues. They provide all the information the player needs in the spell block, so that solves #1. They aren't jury-rigging non-player material for player use, instead using stat blocks specifically designed to scale with players and provide appropriate abilities, so that addresses #2. We don't need to consider abusive swarm tactics and the way they destroy the action economy, which hits #3. I like the idea of being a necromancer siccing my swarm of undeath on hapless opponents as much as the next guy, but it really isn't good for the player experience. The new summon spells might be less exciting in some ways, but I think they create a much more approachable and satisfying (for the group) play experience than anything we had before.
Thank you for coming to my ted-talk.
@@sharkforce8147
1) That doesn't actually address my complaint, though, which is that it's bad game design. I'll certainly concede that it's easily overcome in most circumstances. It shouldn't need to be. If the table for weapon stats were in the DMG with a note in the PHB that your DM will have a list of weapons you can use as well as their stats, it would seem rightly stupid. This is a similarly bizarre design choice. Having wild shape, summon spells, animal companions, etc. use GM material was always a pretty lazy stop gap design, and one that showed precious little foresight, which leads to . . .
2) It's not about one creature. It's about the system and the fact that it opens itself up to future problems. All animals CR 2 and lower is an open set that will continue to expand as material is published. That might be seen as a virtue by some, but it's a balancing headache. Every animal published now has to be assessed for its potential to cause problems if summoned by a druid, especially en masse. By contrast, the new spells tell you exactly what you can do with them, which is generally more approachable for new players and less prone to future material interacting poorly with it.
3) Does not address my main concern at all. Action economy has always been one of the greatest sources of power in any encounter. It's the reason legendary actions were created to allow powerful boss monsters to compete. Mass summoning breaks the action economy over its knee. Even after six of your eight wolves have died, you're still better off than the person who summoned a giant creature. It would be long dead in all but mass aoe situations, and you're still getting value. Not only that, you've been getting significantly more value at every stage of this spell.
4) I think the point about summoned creatures being generic is fine, but sort of meaningless. D&D has never been a simulationist rpg. It does a terrible job of modeling reality. That these summoned beasts model reality slightly less well than the problematic summons we already had is a very minor trade off in my mind.
I'm not here to rip the old spells out of your game book. Nobody is. I'm discussing whether, if we had 5e to do over again, they should make the cut. I don't think so because the design is problematic and the benefits for that questionable game design are few. That your game group doesn't have an issue with them doesn't really answer the problems they create as part of the system.
@@sharkforce8147 Serious question; How do we have a productive conversation about the validity of mechanical designs in the game if, "It's not a problem at my table," is a valid argument?
The wildfire pet also has one huge advantage over battlesmith and beastmaster. You get it on a full caster.
I do tend to find that saving throw abilities are less reliable than to hit abilities, which gets worse as levels gets higher. So it won't be long before you'd need to hit at least 3 creatures to be worth it, although by then the damage is probably so inconsequential a help action for the GWM fighter is probably better.
I agree that saves are harder to target at low levels, I disagree it gets worse at higher levels.
Seeing how most of the Wildfire Spirit grows based of PB rather than druid levels, what classes could you see yourself dipping druid to get this feature? Forge Cleric jumps out at me for doubling down on fire flavor/resistance but being thematically contradictory. Trying to think of classes without much BA economy.
Since the spirit technically isn't concentration or a spell, a Barb could even make modest use of this for the teleportation maneuverability -- albeit without good spell DC
Yeah, I could see it as a good dip for martial classes. Barbarian, Ranger, Fighter...
I think this class work best when it is multi-class with a cleric with light or twilight domain. One domain for nuking, the other for buffing. Basically, we could get 6 levels into Circle of Wildfire and the rest of levels into cleric, both classes shared the same wisdom stats anyway.
@Rubedo Alaberti actually the level 6 bond with spirit increases the damage of healing and fire spells quite a lot. If going cleric, one can take advantage of Light Domain cleric as they can cast wall of fire which has more damage then flame strike since it is a concentration spell. Both wild fire druid and light cleric 9 level spell is Flame Strike btw, which I think is not useful compared to Wall of Fire.
@Rubedo Alaberti
Druid:
Foresight - not needed if you already have at least a warlock, bard or wizard in your party.
Shapechange - not a very good ability for wild fire druid, unless they can shapechange to greater fire spirit and can fly?
Storm of Vengeance - this is a concentration spell, you can only use one concentration spell per battle. And already we using it on wall of fire.
True Resurrection - unnecessary, as we already got Revivify.
Cleric :
Astral Projection - mostly for roleplay, not important if you already have a warlock or wizard in your party, they can learn it too.
Mass heal, power word heal and true resurrection - can be replaced by other wild fire druid healing spells. If you need a full healer, then consider a life domain cleric instead of a blaster cleric if dps is not your thing? Also, consider tweaking your background to include proficiency with the Herbalism Kit.
Is this for real O_O unlimited teleport!
In UA you could do it like once per long rest, that's an insane buff.
I ran 13 levels of this class in ghost of Saltmarsh as an anti meta (haha everybody make a swimming speed + waterbreathing char to cheese).
We had fun.
One of the big problems of the spirit was moving out of harm's way after exploding in on summon, with teleport out now it's super easy, unless your melee party refuses to jump out as well xD
Small side question, what determines how high you can hover?
Wouldn't you be able to summon it right above the enemy and and as your Druid's bonus action cast teleport. The spirit's turn would then immediately follow andbe able to teleport away and use it's additional movement to get away. Does that sound right? I'm still very new and trying to get a grip myself.
Losing fireball was a big loss imho, 3rd level druid spells are just very lackluster to me. Druid just remains a class I can't generate much enthusiasm for.
Conjure animals is pretty powerful with the typical choices (though some DMs will exercise their right to choose the animals, many will let you pick and even prefer that)
If you want to do damage, using conjure animals to get 8 wolves will do lot more damage than a fireball during your average combat.
@@Klaital1 -will it though? Fireball is instantly dealing 8d6 (avg 28dmg) /halved on save (14) -to every creature in the 40' diameter sphere aoe. Each wolf is dealing avg 7 damage per round /on a hit (12 on a crit) to one target -until they are killed/spell is ended. I agree that conjured animals is better for focused damage if you're dog piling wolves on just 1 or 2 targets at a time for multiple rounds.
Mostly the disappointment lies in the fact that circle of wildfire evokes playing with fire -not dogs. Any druid can do the latter strategy. -And fireball is THE iconic fire spell which has been jealously denied as a circle spell to THE fire druid.
I honestly do love that the pets in Tasha's do the dodge action instead of just stand there. Also, the spirit can shove creatures, though with a 10 str probably not a common thing.
One of the new metamagics let's you change spell damage types, which would open up a lot of spells for the enhanced bond features.
I really like just the flavor and it's a very Clericy druid. No fireball is sad but you can work without it, same for firebolt that could replace produce flame. On the other end I'm sad by the nerf of the resurection. 1/2 HP is comparable to the 5X your druid lvl depending on your Con modifier but the idea that your resurection also deals 2d10 + druid lvl felt really cool.
I just saw a comment speaking of Cleric multiclass and while you loose high lvl spells, I think Wildfire(6)/ Grave Domain would make the party very resistant to death. I quite like the theme of life, death and the inbetween that this multiclass would bring. Having revivify doubly prepared is sad thought.
For powerplay I don't think so but with the suggestion of a cleric multiclass I like the grave cleric. Max healing from a wildfire spirit with enhanced bond sounds good to bring people back up.
Thanks Treantmonk!
I feel like I missed something. How's the teleport a 10 foot radius? Fiery Teleportation says "within 5 feet of the space the spirit left..." which is a 5 foot radius
Did I say 10' radius? Can you reply with the timestamp?
@@TreantmonksTemple 13:14 & 14:01 were where I heard 10'
@@NotMe6044 Thank you, I can clear this up. I'm not talking about fiery teleportation in either of these cases. I'm talking about the area of effect damage that is caused when you summon your wildfire spirit, which is 10' around the spirit.
@@TreantmonksTemple Oh! Okay. That makes more sense. Thank you for clarifying
What do you all think about making a melee druid with this sub-class? Play a high half-elf to get green flame blade (or variant human mag init etc), change around your ability scores like Tasha's lets you do. Use Shillelagh (you could also use flame blade for flavour but it's not the best spell, I know), GFB and Enhanced Bond getting you an extra d8. Then don't worry about repercussions because your spirit will bamf you out of harms way? Maybe this makes the Elemental Bane spell kind of function?
I think it could work. I would need to evaluate Elemental Bane in this context, normally that's an ignorable spell.
@@TreantmonksTemple On second thought, it's still not great unless you are against one big bad and you have other fire users. It would give you an extra 2d6 on the fire spirit's teleportation though as the enemy takes extra fire damage on each separate turn. Still not good for multiple enemies. What would you concentrate on otherwise for this kind of build?
with fire shield, you could get that 2d6 more often as well! Still conjure animals would still probably get you more damage and meat-shielding!
Here's my build of that character, let me know what you think! ddb.ac/characters/41008404/nWy125
The one and only problem I have with Circle of Wildfire (having not read the UA and thus not being disappointed with the unavailability of Fireball) is that *SO MANY* of its spells do fire damage when *SO MANY* monsters are resistant or immune to fire. Better hope you're not going against red dragons or fire giants, y'know?
That said, however, the subclass's enhanced healing abilities are always going to be useful, and its capstone ability is amazing. I'm also a big, BIG fan of Plant Growth as an outdoor battlefield control spell. Speaking of which, am I correct in assuming that because that spell's duration is "Instantaneous" that it cannot be dispelled?
Is there a way to break flying + ranged spells? I feel that’s why DMs hate flying players.
Take spell sniper and hit things from hundreds of feet in the air, ignoring cover through trees and battlements.
Heck, invest in a good familiar and you have a scout with full ranged spellcasting.
There is a thing called knocking a flying enemy prone or bringing their speed to 0, the later will always cause a flying creature to fall while a creature who is immune to the prone condition whether it be from having a hover flying speed or just normally being immune to prone wouldn't fall by being prone of course. There are multiple ways to do either thing whether it be something grappling the flying creature then letting them go (their speed would drop to 0 until the start of their next turn so they'd fall) or spells that either lower speed by an arbitrary number like most cold damage spells or just directly say their speed becomes 0.
Additionally an easy way to discourage relying on flight is by having enemies target the arrogant flyer with ranged attacks because since they're playing a caster they're probably pretty squishy depending on the spells they've taken so after they lose a good quarter of their hp they'd be more wary about using something that could end up getting them killed
👍🏻
I've had a UA Wildfire Druid in my campaign for the last 9 months and I have to say it is very underwhelming, so much so that the player has swapped the druid class out entirely. We were finding approximately a 3 round ramp up to any effectiveness because of its action economy, and by that time combat was generally over.
I hate it when all the combats end in 1, 2, or 3 turns. It stops me from being able to set anything up when everything dies so quickly. One of the players I dm for said the last encounter I threw at them was too long/grindy though so I guess not everyone is like me lol.
@@theeye8276 I find most fights are 3-5 rounds long, unless there are enemy waves or some other mechanical obstacle/gimmick. For transparency, the campaign also has 5-6 PCs haha
@@LordMyconid In a campaign I'm in as an ancestral guardian barbarian I'm lucky if it's ever that long. The dm throws us a bunch of weaklings all the time too instead of a few strong opponents so my ancestral protector feature becomes un used a lot lol. thanks for posting your post. I think builds that don't depend on combats lasting for more than one round and/or rely on them doing anything in particular such as having enemies who don't resist a certain damage type is best for constant fun overall.
The only thing that sucks about the Wildfire druid is that even if you select the elemental adept feat, it doesn't help your pet overcome fire resistance.
That's true.
My DM allows my Wildfire druid apply his elemental adept to the pet, because his reasoning was that it's a core mecanic and should be treated as the druids damage :O (Just my DMs ruling not saying RAW or anything)
"Humans need water to live"
Treant Monk: I have to disagree
I would really like a build for this subclass
so make one......
A situational or so-so spell suddenly feels way better when you get it for free instead of having to choose it from limited options.
So, here’s a question. The wildfire spirit has strength 10, giving it a 150 pound carrying capacity. Even an ungenerous GM could only really cut that to 75 pounds for its size, even though capacity is only supposed to be reduced for Tiny. If you’re Small yourself, can it carry you in flight? I mean, you may lose your Dex AC and not be able to use your hands, and you’re risking a fall from a creature with a terrible AC and low HP, but technically, I don’t see why it couldn’t carry some halfling around.
Can a fire elemental even carry stuff?
@@TreantmonksTemple Well, an Efreet can, and it’s an elemental.
I wouldn’t try to pull this myself except in a dire circumstance. More of an academic question. And it’s only an hour, anyway. Still, it seems within RAW and outside of RAI.
Remember a druid dip means never using armor again. Tho with something like bladesinger...
Plat growth, lots of dry wheat or brush, fire spirit. Boom whole Battle field is on fire. Better than fire ball cause constant damage
The sixth level ability has very nice synergy with burning hands, and first level spell slots are a cheap tactical choice by 6th lv.
You can't cast burning hands through the spirit because burning hands has a range of self aka the ability's one restriction
@@lucasramey6427 oh right other than self not of self
Do you think the offensive side of Cauterizing Flames would ever come up? I can't imagine monsters would be walking over the corpses of their dead buddies in the first place, and especially won't once a weird glowing ball appears above them
Even better. Battlefield control and you don't even need to use your reaction.
@@TreantmonksTemple Ah didn't even consider that but I'd much rather that than 2d10+5 damage by the time you're as high as lv 10
I've seen a good number of them go over dead bodies in my games with a few different DMs. Smart monsters probably would avoid the flame but dumb ones wouldn't.
All these squares make a circle.