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@@SolaceAndDread who else but Ashton loves barrels and has weird attachments to his body? ... well, *I* can't look at barrels the same again and I have a weird attachment on me, sooo.... ;) (I know this list is about their combat effectiveness not personalities, but still!)
I remember the PS1 meta was Claude, Ashton, Dias and Rena. I watched my best friend beat the ultimate boss at the end of the secret dungeon with that party
That's definitely my nostalgia party. Ashton is my boy. But I will definitely do a Claude run and get opera and Ernest who I didn't experiment with much in the og
I havent played the remaster but my ranking for the OG game would be 1. Opera 2. Claude/Rena ( Fits into any party ) 3. Ashton ( late game beast ) 4. Chisato/Bowman ( spam galore ) 5. Dias 6. Ernest 7. Leon/Noel ( more versatile than Celine and better basic attacks ) 8. Celine ( mages fall off hard ) 9. Precis ( those voice lines make her borderline unplayable )
@@lucascecil6287 We Form in Crystals! Favorite track in all Star Ocean games. I like the new one too. It's a ritual to listen to it while making a thumbnail to every video. 😊 What about you?
For Ashton, I love pairing cross slash with hurricane slash (I think this move got upgraded) and sword dance with deadly triangle. (Mainly used deadly triangle after killing an enemy with sword dance and teleport/pin down another enemy) Going to try Opera on my second play through with Claude.
Opera is phenomenal. I’m sad I didnt recruit her in my second playthrough but I plan on getting her on my third. Ernest and Welch 100 percent got glow ups. I love Chisato and Bowman but I feel Tear Gas did sadly get nerfed. Bowman has some decent moves and he carried my party a good portion of the game.
Yes to ranking based on story relevance please! Helps new players to choose which ones to go for especially if they plan to do one play through only (casual player)
Precis getting a barrier with Forcefield makes her such a blast to play now. Early game Celine got some heavy nerfs with taking a lot of her all target spells down to limited area. I found that having break damage barrier on mages helped, as the nukes could help give fighters some breathing room. Glad you loved the Remake, I did too! Now for a second run to get Opera; I am excited to break the game wide open with her.
Celine Ashton Precis Noel Leon Welch are still pure CRAP in this version and will NEVER be in my party EVER bloody armor a lv 100 Claude Opera Dias Bowman/Chisato party ASAP even on Earth mode in the R version and NEVER EVER REMOVE IT.
Man, I'm finally getting around to playing this after waiting YEARS thinking it would never get made. Instant sub after I watched your character acquisition video. Awesome channel big dawg 🤙🤙🤙
I put Rena in my top 4, she is by far the best shield breaker with Gravity Crush. It isnt particularly fun to spam it, but it made alot of the annoying bonus bosses less frustrating if you are not going to exploit the broken Bloody Armor mechanic.
Im sorry sir with all due respect but i have some thoughts. Mine are abit biased and just as a caveat i have never used Ernest, chisato or opera. So here me out, Nor have i played any version outside of the original. Im interested in R but not sure. 1. I have no idea why bowman gets so much hate. He's fucking awesome. The sakura attack is the fist equivalent of the mirror slice. Explosion pills carried me threw the field of intelligence. Also the explosive fist once leveled up literally encompassed his entire body and turne d it into a huge attack. 2. Dias you're absolutely right. Very useful throughout the game. His killer moves made up for his slow ass regular sword attack. Im going to say this and i mean this from the bottom of my heart. The Illusion once leveled up into a 5 hit combo plus the bunny shoes is God tier and i don't care what anyone says. 3. Ashton can easily be the best player in this game but he's pretty weak ij the beginning. The sword dance and dragon breath plus tri Ace cant be beaten. 4. Nothing can ever make me never ever Believe claude is not the best character in this game. The link combo i out his mirror slice and twin slash together and it was a think a 20 hit combo. My biggest struggle with Claude was the fact there was only 2 slots I could use for his killer moves. While they started iff pretty mediocre in the beginning of the game. It really took off towards the lacour arms tournament. Ripper blast Burst knucke Sword bomber Dragon howel Mirror slice Omg i love claude
@@carltongraham1240 I promise the remake really changes how they feel/play. Sakura attack was great in the original, not so much in remake, plus Bowman has bad weapon choices. Ashton got a hard nerf, he doesn't have the best normal anymore and sword dance animates too long with no movement. He just gets outshined in the remake. Claude... I mean, the argument can be made for Claude since he self-heals. But raw damage he is outdone by Precis and Welch. Opera is also just an amazing all-rounder. But Claude is busted without being overly busted. I do love him too, lol. Highly encourage trying the remake - it's amazing.
@@SolaceAndDread I'm going to try the remake. It also looks as tho in the remake he regains his phase gun. That wasn't done in the original. Also he only self healed with the energy sword which u didn't use because it took up slots that I wanted to preserve for other combos. Who in the hell is Welch? Is she a new character ?
Noel's ultimate weapon gives a 25% chance for auto-life upon healing. This is absurdly powerful and abusable and makes him a better healer than Rena. Dias's ultimate weapon gives him 100% crit chance, meaning that you can load him out with the craziest equipment factor set up like having him use crit heal + the stupid powerful All for One Star Guard found in the MoT. Speaking of insane factors, there is this gale earring with 20% HP absorb that turns female fighters immortal in battle. Gale earring + earring of frenzy (I think this is the name, the insane +200% ATK one, which is better than the Ring of Might in almost all aspects) means that you can put MP absorb on a weapon, which in turn means that characters like Opera that usually live at the back of the battlefield absolutely thrive. Chisato and Ashton were done dirty, and I agree that Chisato especially is a worse fighter. Her best moves now are Flamethrower and 10,000 Volts, which is so lame. Deadly Triangle has a lock on of sorts now, but it still isn't that great, and Tri-Ace doesn't feel like the ultimate move it should be. Claude was always the jack-of-all-trades, but he doesn't feel as powerful as he was. And even though the Phase Gun is an amazing attack, it feels kind of lame that one of his best moves isn't the result of his training and his development as a character, just a loop to the beginning of the game where he needed this kind of crutch. Ernest is absolutely great now, he's very fun to play. Which is absolutely a shame that Bowman is still an Inferno Pellet spammer and nothing more. What a missed opportunity. Leon and Celine are the eternal assault slot bench warmers. But you can at least deploy Celine for some serious Meteor Swarm multi hit shenanigans. It's calling a nuke at the press of the d-pad. I maintain that this is far and away the best version of Star Ocean 2. But there are so many odd choices and weird quirks in the remake. Which, granted, was already part of the charm of the original, so maybe it's their way of respecting tradition. Great video as always. God bless you.
Thanks! I appreciate the love. I feel differently about a few points, particularly Noel since like I said in the beginning, post-game isn't the only consideration (and he doesn't have Angel Feather. ) But I very much appreciate the differing pov ❤️
@@SolaceAndDread Apologies, I understood the intent of your video, I was just making general comments on the characters and their gameplay. Gear does affect massively how good a character is. When you consider that the earring combo is immediately available to Chisato, I would question whether or not Ashton does rank higher than her. Ashton simply has the advantage of being introduced much earlier, and thus being generally more useful.
@@4Clubs The real issue regarding Noel, and to a lesser extent Opera and Rena, is that group healing power is completely obsoleted by the Drain Factors. Natural Vice could be said to improve Noel to the extent that he's a better in-battle healer than Rena, but Auto-Life doesn't matter if your characters aren't taking damage at all. Rena has Raise Dead during a time when you might actually need it and 3 major buffs (Power Up, Guard, and Angel Feather) compared to just Noel having Bless. In regards to the HP Drain Gale Earring, that is actually something unique for Welch, Opera, and Chisato (Celine could also use it but is held back by cast times). I don't think too much credit should be given here though because it costs you an accessory slot, and not using a Berserker Ring roughly halves damage potential (which for Opera and Chisato is already meager). You might say I'm overemphasizing damage, but killing enemies faster means you're also taking less hits and don't need the healing. The Earring of Frenzy is quite powerful but -50% HIT is a very significant downside on Universe. You need like 1200 HIT to reliably hit the EQ in post game, and none of them are making it there while wearing it. The reason Welch is in a class of her own is that her best weapon is incredibly strong (2500 ATK) and bypasses accuracy. Chisato's Psychic Gun can do this too, but that's a paltry 980 ATK, after the Earring, that's a final power difference of over *4500*!
It’s fun to see how characters rate here compared to the original. Especially since I’ve been so busy that I haven’t gotten to dive into this remake yet. I do want to do at least one playthrough with Ashton on the team since he was such a favourite originally. But will be nice to use some characters that really took a step up in this version also (as much as possible anyways).
@@Insanityltself yes I liked Bowman a lot in the original as well. Chisato was needed, her Tear Gas takes forever to start and it's area of effects has beenndraticay reduced. Also her cartwheel and 10,000 volts were way more impactful in the original but I understand they tried to balance some of the OP characters.
I personally find that glass cannons are better at being assault characters...so I kinda see them as lesser than others More balanced team with utility during battle. So precis, for me, is lower. However, not gotten to post game yet :) Got to the end game and realized I wasn't going to go back to Edia, realized I would not be able to fish, realized I wouldn't be able to fight the special bosses and so restarted a new game !
great video and gave me a lot to think about playing through this version of the game which, youre right, warrants a new re-ranking due to their changes. thanks!
I agree with so many of your concepts, here. Opera is definitely the best character in the game! I haven't had a chance to check out the new weapons from the update though. Do you think this list would change from that?
so happy about Precis. I love her character and her attacks in the original PS1 version. Her Parabola beam was fun to use. The move where she throws Bobot 1 and 2.0 is a fun kiting move. Her Bloody Mary reminds me of Tron Bonne (I love Tron from Mega Man legends). Sad about Chisato. And i agree wholeheartedly about Opera being the strongest character. How is her Alpha on One move? I'm unable to buy the game because they ran out of the physical copy in the city where I'm living.
@ on one isn't as good as it used to be but still good. Her other moves are game breaking though, so she's got some versatility. Also yeah, Chisato's tear gas nerf is sad. The damage is reduced because it's break-focused now, but she doesn't have any good HP moves to replace it. They really screwed her up.
Thanks! What would your list look like if it only includes post game? Also, cus chisato is a fighter, I would still rank her ahead of the spell casters. As for Ernest, I think I rank him lower cus he lacked certain armors that were necessary to stay alive in the final dungeons/bosses. Also, Noel has his use in the off team, so i would rank him higher. With Noel, I don’t need to worry about wasting items on healing. He’s like an extra free out of battle healer and antidote… good for both serious and casual players. Having two healers is essential because of this, imho. My final end game team would always choose 1. Rena 2. Claude 3. Dias 4. Précis 5. Welch 6. Noel 7. Chisato 8. Opera or Ashton(my fav character) I wish they would add a secret where you can get both Ashton and opera on the same team. I’d kick out Chisato for Ashton.
Yoooo, thank you! Noel has specific uses that make him pretty useful but overall he's just... Meh. And yeah my hate for Chisato in the remake is strong lol. I could see an argument for her being a bit higher.
Chisato is op. Give her the gauntlet that you get from defeating the pet in the maze of tribulations. It allows her to heal when doing damage. Next you want 2 accessories. One is a pair of earrings that drastically increases attack at the cost of some hit but it's worth it. The other item allows you to simply adds extra attacks when doing normals. Equip bloody armor and bunny shoes then disable any special attacks. She will never die and hits like a truck.
Correct but Noel Welch Ashton are still pure Crap WITH it so before you can even GET HP drain weapons keep Opera with 9999 HP lv 100 using Healing Star for 5000 healing so that the armors HP drain effect won't kill you the ONLY default weapon that has it is that Phantom Slayer weapon Bowman/Chisato and BOTH of them are ONLY found in that dungeon floor 5 then again on a 8th floor chest.
I’m loving this game! 18 hours in and just consuming all content Star Ocean second story R related. It’s hard not to fomo with characters, gotta do multiple playthroughs
Thankfully tier lists dont matter. My first play through i just played my favorites from the past with a party of Leon Ernest Opera and Noel 2nd playthrough was my universe run with all the mages only. So Celine Rena Leon and Noel. It was a blast. The only fights i had to switch someone was for the spell supressions but other than that i didnt really have any trouble on universe and it was my most fun playthrough
I used Leon as an Assault character for his post game final spell and it made him quite useful ^^. In fact yeah mages are very useful as an Assault character.
I kept Leon in my party for a large portion of universe mode except when I was forced to sub out spell casters due to magic being disabled. Extinction and gremlin lair are EXCELLENT shield breakers. Celine's true ultimate weapon adds a lot to her viability if you equip her with earrings of frenzy. I don't know how I feel about your placing of Chisato but she's disappointing to use compared to the OG game where she and Ashton were my favorites. I disagree about mages not being fun to use but to each his own. You kinda have to make them work and the path of least resistance is probably going with a 4th melee fighter. Celine is really good for angel feather on assault mode though with her upgraded ultimate weapon I like using her actively. A lot of the new ultimate weapons skyrocketed many lower tier characters' viability but the problem is that you probably won't have most of them til after CoT. Personally im doing a ng+ where levels reset along with skills so I can keep my stuff and im trying chaos mode. I like your tier list more than the other guys (not going to name call..).
Chisato might not be great in the actual party, but she's top tier as an assault summon. Using the skill that summons the bombs is the most damage you can bring in off your bench, which is actually a pretty big deal in this game.
I think you got it right except I'd rank Celine a bit higher. I tend to recruit her instead of Noel. Celine's useful in the party for the first 1/3 of the game (also for Skills, etc!), and she's perfectly fine on Assault throughout the rest of the playthrough. Noel joins too late to be relevant imo.
i play in chaos and completed everything with all the new weapons unlocked too... opera is 2nd to precis interms of raw damage output. no one in my team does damage close to forcefield spam with her new weapon. welch is bad because she lacks aerial enemies. for me with all the new weapons its precis, opera, dias... then here comes the fun part. ashton and earnest are almost equal because hurrican blade with his new weapon turns every skill he was a weakspot hit. earnest with his wind orb thing spam too will also do the same but with more hits and less damage. claude is one of the worst of the bunch with chisato too along with the mages... im torn with bowman because it feels he does no damage? but he does damage indeed. even more than chisato which is weird in some ways.... but in a really balanced team i would say yes opera would be a must have on the team with her new weapon which firest homing shots everytime she skills or attacks is just ridiculous... welch is super weird to use because she needs an all male team with her to ramp up her damage paired with no aerial attacks... precis hits 99k but cant use bloody gears but still will survive all chaos bosses with forcefield spam outside the enemy range kinda like opera.
I wanted to love the mages but they're just objectively worse than most of the the fighters lol. I will say the newer Star Ocean games did mages much much better
Me: playing blind and somehow only have the lower level characters 😂 Claude, Welch, Precis and Diaz are carrying, but I somehow love playing as Noel and Ashton
Chisato is the reason why I rather play the original or that PSP port. So glad Till The End of Time didn't get a remake. No offense, but Second Story R doesn't exactly hold the candle to Alter Code f. I don't like remakes that nerf characters.
You're selling Leon slightly short in your explanation. He has Power Up on Assault, which frees Rena up to use Angel Feather (if you don't have Celine), or Raise Dead (if you do). He can also become invincible via the Valiant Mail which is something that Rena and Celine cannot do. Funny enough the gap between caster and fighter damage seems to be even *greater* now, which you kind of already mention, so I won't belabor that point. I would argue that Celine's use of Angel Feather (and the fact that she is the earliest possible extra body for SP usage) makes her worth more than anything Noel could ever contribute. The early game advantage is so significant that I'd say dropping her to have room for Chisato is actually a mistake, even though the latter is still much stronger in terms of damage. Bowman's Poison Pills / Explosion Pills are definitely the way to go, and it's boring like you say. In terms of main-game weapons, ignore Burst of Fire entirely and get Fists of the Moon instead (Knuckles of the Moon + Diamond) - 100 less ATK, but no element, and lots of other good stats. Noel's neat but I don't think even with the most favorable interpretation he could be better than Bowman. Self-Medication has been buffed to cure statuses and covers an area now so he even creeps up on him in healing. Ashton vs. Bowman is a real discussion because Bowman is solid all main-game, but falls off in post and Ashton is mediocre until he gets Levantine where he starts to recover his former glory. Hurricane Slash is also good. For a casual player, I think Bowman is better, but if you're committed to doing everything Ashton isn't too much of a drag main game (because frankly it's very easy) and he can even be in the top 4 discussion for speed kills at the very end. Ernest vs. Opera is another real discussion because I don't think a seasoned player will actually need any of what Opera brings to the table anymore. Her damage is going to be better than his (if she can hit anything), but Bed of Roses with Glorious Thorn is probably the best AI spam / mob fight move in the game because of how it doesn't need movement and target switches instantly. Your (and seemingly everyone's) estimation of Dias is completely off - he's much better than he was in the original. Dias' primary weakness was always that even though he could hit hard, he couldn't multi-hit effectively at all. Everyone says Air Slash is worse somehow, but that's just not true. Piercing enemies and always multi-hitting lets it be way more powerful than it ever was before; the MP cost increase was definitely justified. Add to this the fact that the damage cap is removable, and the ridiculous power on Dias' weapons (his new super weapon can be gotten even before he is recruited if you use Bloody Armor), he can have post-game performance in the main-game. Just as an aside, Full Moon Slash might be the best Break Art in the game. Claude is, was, and always will be, the best character in the game. I don't know how you came to the conclusion that he isn't overpowered anymore. He has the third best DPS in the game thanks to Meteor Palm's insane buffs, and can be in a position to solo it before the two that beat him (Welch and Precis) even join the team. Aeterna isn't as overwhelmingly dominant as it used to be, but it's still a hugely powerful weapon you can get a quarter of the way through. Now that Sword of Life is an attack as well as heal, you can braindead Bloody Armor whenever you want, even if you never recruit another character at all. Precis is great, assuming you make her Forcefield right away, its Bed of Roses, light on the AI smarts, and very heavy on the damage. Her frailty actually is a point against her since she's the only fighter who can't be completely cheese invincible. Post-game the Roaring Burst Puncher is just comically powerful. What you say about Welch is pretty much true. Slappity-Slap, I don't even know what the developers were thinking. Her Duel Battle A weapon is, uncharacteristically, loaded with stats and will easily carry her until you get the bonkers Gutsy Handy Stick in post-game. Levantine, Hachimentei, GHS and RBP are so, so much better than the other super-weapons I have to wonder if the developers were playing favorites. I expected all of them to at least be on par with Farwell... Opera I kind of already went into, but despite the power, Healing Star is less necessary than ever since all the other self-heals got buffed and Assault Actions exist. That was really her claim to fame because in terms of damage she won't compete without an Earring of Frenzy. Her weapons have such poor ATK and the accuracy penalty hurts her the most since her new super weapon has a resounding 0 HIT (it also comes very late), but maybe that's only an issue on Universe. Effective damage at a safe range is a niche, but Dias, Precis, and Ernest can all also do that and don't suffer the same weapon dearth.
(Hard agree with playing favorites on Welch.) - Leon sucks. I wouldn't put him above anyone other than Chisato. I stand behind that, regardless of his ~2 buffs. I agree with the masses on Dias. Multi hit was never the issue with him because of how fast his attacks came out, so no long animations to get stuck behind and you could chase the angels/Gabe. I can concede on the MP thing. Bowman can't self-heal out of petrification or paralysis, so that doesn't matter. They're the only real statues you need to worry about 99% of the time. And explosion pills getting blue damage so often sucks too. Noel lets you do the impossible. Bowman hates you. 🤷🏾♂️ Both crappy, one has utility. Opera's damage might fall off comparatively, but she still wrecks everything in main story on Universe (and a third of CoT before atrophy) easier than Claude for a casual player. That's why everyone loves her. Also, self heals do not compare to healing star's 10k in 4 seconds for the whole team. Also, when I say Claude isn't overpowered, I mean that he's not your only sensible option to play. many ARPG's have comparatively overpowered MC's and there's nearly no point to playing the others. Claude is good, but the fact that he isn't highest DPS alone is reason enough to justify the train of thought. He's a great protag.
I can tell you're a speedrunner. Most of this clearly showed bias. Solace said this was about all encompassing. Opera's damage handles everything in the base game and instantly full heals the whole party regardless of range. She's the best.
@@charlessheridan2082 Bias for what? Everyone's damage can "handle everything in the base game", because it is easy. Opera's damage is low even despite her ability to equip the Earring of Frenzy because her weapons are mediocre (and unlike most other characters, her post-game weapon is barely an improvement), and her most damaging moves are elemental. Her bigshot Hyper Launcher is Light elemental, which can't even damage Michael, Lucifer, or Gabriella Celesta. Healing Star is really all that sets her apart, which becomes less relevant the stronger you are since enemies die so much faster. It's also nerfed relatively by the fact that Claude and Bowman's self-heals are significantly better in this version. And that's before we get into the ludicrous power of Drain Factors in post-game. I'll give her this, Healing Star is probably the best Assault heal, but I can't possibly call a character who's best position is on the bench the "best".
@@Expelsword014 I guess you are in fact a speedrunner, lol. "because it's easy" exactly, and her damage is enough to handle everything in base and most of post game even on Universe. sure it's "less" but it still works and it's safe. having her in your party means everyone is instantly healed to max with healing star. did you watch the rules part of the video? he said everyone used in a general sense, not just min-maxed and yet you keep talking about post game. Opera is great for casuals and works for everyone for MOST of the game. THAT'S why she's the best, even if she falls slots at the end.
@@charlessheridan2082 How much damage you can deal is a very relevant metric - arguably the most - because unlike in previous versions, the obvious "best" strategy of using Bloody Armor can be done without extending them ad-infinitum with healing animations. (The fastest group healing animation on Healing Star *was* Opera's most well known feature partially because of it's synergy with this strategy, which more than anything speaks to the persistence of a certain Esther...) Before you have the ability to surpass the damage limit, everyone will be topping out at the same level of damage. How far they can go beyond this depends on the quality of their post-game weapons. I do consider Opera to be better than Bowman, Ashton, and Chisato (despite that in post-game both men can out-damage her), because post-game damage isn't everything, but post-game *is* the part where you'll notice your choices mattering the most. I cannot call Opera the best in the game - that title most assuredly goes to Claude, who can beat the game by himself. When I say this, I don't mean it literally (as in, he can beat it by himself because he is present the whole game), I mean that he has the easiest time beating it alone out of anyone. Claude is effective through the entire game. He has good stats all around, lots of useful Arts (including one that heals himself *and* does damage), and his best main-game weapon (which is as strong as some post-game ones) can be acquired before most other characters are playable. Claude becomes *more* dominant in post-game, where his status as a male swordsman gives him access to the Levantine Sword for absurd damage, and the Valiant Mail, which you can use to become invincible without needing *any* way of healing.
I can't not give the #1 spot to Claude. Yes it takes a bit of game knowledge but you can get the Aeterna so early and it's gonna carry well into the postgame. Sword of Life is also really cracked imo since it's AoE for both healing and damage. Also is Hurricane Slash not considered good? I really like spamming it.
I disagree with this list on some points. One of your arguments about Precis is that some skills make her immortal. Chisato's ultimate, in addition to calling monsters' aggro, makes her invincible while summoning missiles, meaning she is perfect for tanking any enemy in the game without the need to resort to blood armor. Your gameplay video of Ernest makes him look extremely inferior to Ashton. It makes him look bad, in addition to having bad techniques against powerful enemies, unless he has other members that make it easier for him. Welch: She is extremely bad when she joins the group and only improves towards the end of the game with better weapons. Isn't it contradictory to place it so high since it only looks good when it is highly upgraded and has excellent equipment? Even Chisato, even coming in late, is more useful without leveling up. Claude: With the Energy Sword he can literally play alone while healing and dealing area damage with a very low investment of equipment. How can he be inferior to Welch when she needs a lot of levels, as well as a lot of investment to get good? PS: His Mirror Blade was always bad, even in the original. In your comparison, I had the feeling that it was based a lot on the weapon creation system. Celine, for example, with an elemental staff that increases the percentage of fire magic damage makes Explode clear the screen in seconds. Even so, you treated her as very bad in your tone of voice and impressions. It seems like you based this analysis more on fun than the actual usefulness/impact of the characters. PS 1: I need to sign below about Chisato. She suffered a very big nerf to her Tear Gas. What they did was a crime. PS 2: Opera is the best even in the original. She deals damage and also heals the entire party.
Gonna disagree sharply about Welch. I grabbed her and used her from the start on Universe and even before she gets Slappity-Slap (and then forever after) she was nuts. She starts strong and stays strong. And then post game she's one of two characters to out-dps Claude. That's why she's better. Chisato's "tank" also means she's not doing damage during the call of the missiles, and when it hits, it's paltry DPS And Ernest IS better than Ashton. He just is - Until very very late with the levantine sword. Ernest's moves are legitimately some of the best for the AI to spam in the game. Also fun is a factor, but not the driving force. If that was the case, the mages would be all at the bottom, then Bowman, then the rest. It was balance of post-game, story content and ease of use.
My comment is based on what you said in your videos about making Claude's overpowered weapon and abusing the crafting system from the beginning. I remember you saying this in your videos. In my game I avoided breaking the game with the creation system as much as possible as it completely unbalances the entire gameplay. Taking this into consideration, I tested each character in the game as soon as we recruited them and Welch always had the worst DPS, in addition to usefulness in the group (Claude, Opera, Celine and Rina). It takes a long time to cause damage, unless you abuse the creation system a lot. About Chisato: I used her as a tank because I really didn't want to take away the fun of the game by abusing the creation system. For example: I never use blood armor. Taking this into consideration, my game was really difficult throughout the entire gameplay. You couldn't take Claude out since he could heal if necessary, and Opera, Chisato and Bowman always performed better than Welch. Again remembering that I didn't abuse the creation system, even though I created Cloud's best weapon ever with HP absorption. That's why I can't agree that Welch is above the others (since she only gets so good if we break the game). I tested her (several times) during the story and in DPS, in addition to her usefulness, without breaking the game, she was always behind: she didn't have any support skills for the group that would make me remove Claude (tank, DPS and healing), Opera (break, dps and healing) or Celine (area attack, area buff and then massive explosions in every battle). PS 1: My Chisato, even with the tank build, was giving 20k for each bomb that fell from the skill. I did it for fun so I could play with her, Opera, Celine and Rina. PS 2: My point with Welch is that she needs support and brings nothing to the group other than damage if the game isn't broken with the crafting system. PS 3: I would really like to have seen a normal gameplay of yours to be able to understand how you can like Welch so much even though she is inferior to the others in the story (in the post game she is a monster, like almost everyone else). PS 4: And please don't misunderstand me. It's not an attack or anything like that. But in the normal game (during the story) I couldn't see Welch being that good.@@SolaceAndDread
@@eliasfranca7173 I don't think it's an attack. I just genuinely loved playing with her. The moment she gets Slappity-Slap she really was a DPS machine. And no, those videos are tips, but I tried not to break the game either, lol.
@@eliasfranca7173 Welch is only weak if you don't use Item Creation. You are looking at the tier list from the wrong perspective - the characters who can break the game most easily are better, and they get bonus points for being good in other contexts (this is why I firmly believe Claude to be the best of all, he is never bad in any context), you can pretty much make everyone's best customizable weapons right after you get them thanks to the Challenge Missions giving out high level materials to use, and her higher end weapons are not bad at all. As a matter of fact, you can get Welch's second best weapon from Duel Battle at the same time you get Chisato's ultimate weapon (right after you recruit her), and it's miles better.
i never had dias in the OG. now i got him and... i think he is SO DAMN WEAK. airslash is his best move! WTF!! there are so many chars who are better than him!
@@SolaceAndDreadyeah but he is so boring to play... and his normal is awefull. deadly illusion is his second best but all other specials are actually shit! what the hell!? really expected more from him with his whole attitude of "seeking strength"... ernest is so good now but so damn annyoing... claud,Opera,Precis are constant party members but the fourth spot is still open. Rena cant compete with healing star. Chisato has been nerfed to kingdom come but is still good guess i am gonna go with welch but she has no AOE attacks what so ever. guess the perfect party does not exist.
@@sion7651 Welch is legitimately one of the best characters in the game. Second best if not THE best. Check out our ranking video sometime. Welch is godly lmao
@@SolaceAndDreadnow that i got mithril fist she got the spot XD the AOE i have been missing with her! and i got hyper launcher with OPera... as if the wasn't insane enough... already watched your ranking video twice because you put Chisato dead last😅... dias is worse😅
I was so disappointed by mages in this game. I was hoping they'd get a huge playability boost from the original, and they're arguably worse as a whole (and get worse and worse the farther you go in the game, outclassed by fighters). I still loved the game overall, but this was a swing and a miss by SE.
Square Enix had nothing to do with development, gemdrops studios developed this game, in fact square Enix has never developed a star ocean game, tri ace was the developer up until this game, square Enix has been purely a publisher when it comes to star ocean
i cant get over the voices of ashton and ernest... the voice of ashton does not fit him at al!! all the other characters, especially precis, sound amazing!
The fact you didn't put Bowman last... I'm disappointed lmao. I kid but i was sad about mages being so awkward to play. I rarely used them and tried to force Leon in but he ended up being replaced by Ernest in the long run. 😂
Chisato has the easiest "always hit" weapon to get and can wear frenzy earrings. She can hit 9999 attack before post game, last is crazy. Sure, tear gas got nerfed, but only to keep her from "just as good as claude and Welch (post game only for her)" rank. While she's the last to recruit, she's also probably easiest to make into a killer before post-game. Every woman fighter in going to be hitting harder than the guys because of the frenzy earring/feet symbol combo so you don't even need the always hit weapon, just that two earrings will get you to 9999 fastest.
Lol I stand behind this. Claude, Dias and Bowman all do 9999 damage more easily than her in base game - same for Opera. She's not the easiest. And when they do, they do it more consistently. Her DPS is legitimately lower than every other fighter and Tear Gas is her best break move and it's not even good, the mages do it better. She doesn't stand out in any meaningful way. Lol she is well placed. All her special moves, range and normals are mid at best and post game she doesn't compare to anyone.
I'm sorry, but this is untrue. Just because a double Earring of Frenzy wearer can reach 9999 ATK listed easily doesn't mean they do the most damage overall. Opera and Chisato's weapons are so bad that they are fighting an uphill battle, and that's before considering accuracy. Part of the reason Welch is considered so godly is because her ultimate weapon offsets the accuracy penalty completely, but notably it also has 2500 ATK. When tripled by Frenzy, that's a 7500 ATK minimum. Chisato's Psychic Gun with the same effect only has a power of 980, (2940 when tripled) meaning Welch has 4500 ATK lead over her with Frenzy. No problem, we can just wear a second Frenzy, now she's getting another ~3k, which is probably enough to put her near the cap. The issue is that Welch is hitting the cap with 1 accessory, meaning she can use a Berserker Ring in the other slot to be literally twice as powerful. If we decide to use a Foot Symbol instead, Welch's second best weapon (2000) and Chisato's strongest weapon (1600) are available at the same time in the main game, neither are capping, but Welch has a healthy 1200 ATK lead. No fair to compare Welch to Chisato, you say, she's got the Frenzy too! Chisato would be crushing someone who can't wear it! Aeterna has a base power of 1600. Claude can only double it with a Ring of Might but that's 3200 ATK, which is still slightly more than Psychic Gun Chisato has from Frenzy. Comparing to Dias is even worse. Crimson Devil starts out losing (1100 x 2 vs. 980 x 3), but doubles all damage after the fact, so it's actually 4400 in practice. The gap gets comical when you allow the post game swords (nevermind that Dias' can actually be gotten before you even have *him* in the party). Levantine's insane 3000 base ATK becomes 6000 when doubled. This gets them pretty close to the cap after their stats, and then they get to wear the Berserker Ring to double it again. On top of this, Levantine has a bonus effect that more than doubles damage *again* if you're at low HP.
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Props for bringing attention to a mostly ignored tri-ace game.
Ashton was always my favorite. But I hated that I couldnt have him and Opera both.
Ashton is probably my favorite character aside from Rena. But he got shafted in this version. That is until endgame
@@SolaceAndDread who else but Ashton loves barrels and has weird attachments to his body? ... well, *I* can't look at barrels the same again and I have a weird attachment on me, sooo.... ;)
(I know this list is about their combat effectiveness not personalities, but still!)
Ashton was damned near Auto victory on PS1 and even more broken on PSP
@drivinganddragons1818 you could almost say he was the team anchor. ⚓️ 🔱
@@ShadesMan yes, he was never a Drag-on the team.
I remember the PS1 meta was Claude, Ashton, Dias and Rena. I watched my best friend beat the ultimate boss at the end of the secret dungeon with that party
That party was the best. They can still work but they're eclipsed now.
That's definitely my nostalgia party. Ashton is my boy. But I will definitely do a Claude run and get opera and Ernest who I didn't experiment with much in the og
I'm about to start this game tonight for the first time and so glad I found your video. Thanks
A man of culture.
The Ashton nerfs are sad.
He's still so cool, lol
Lol we stan Ashton anyway.
I havent played the remaster but my ranking for the OG game would be
1. Opera
2. Claude/Rena ( Fits into any party )
3. Ashton ( late game beast )
4. Chisato/Bowman ( spam galore )
5. Dias
6. Ernest
7. Leon/Noel ( more versatile than Celine and better basic attacks )
8. Celine ( mages fall off hard )
9. Precis ( those voice lines make her borderline unplayable )
I just wanna say. The ost to this game is so good. Just hearing it in the background makes me want to go through this game again.
I preferred most of the original songs to the new arrangements tbh. What about you?
@SolaceAndDread Same, but I can appreciate the new ones.
Whats your favorite track?
@@lucascecil6287 We Form in Crystals!
Favorite track in all Star Ocean games. I like the new one too. It's a ritual to listen to it while making a thumbnail to every video. 😊
What about you?
@@SolaceAndDread I really love all of them. But I am torn between Pyroxene and Field of Expel.
@@lucascecil6287 Pyroxene is great. Just a good track. But field of expel is so nostalgic, lol
For Ashton, I love pairing cross slash with hurricane slash (I think this move got upgraded) and sword dance with deadly triangle. (Mainly used deadly triangle after killing an enemy with sword dance and teleport/pin down another enemy)
Going to try Opera on my second play through with Claude.
My favorite team is Claude, ernest, opera & rena. I love how they pin the enemy with there combos
Opera is phenomenal. I’m sad I didnt recruit her in my second playthrough but I plan on getting her on my third. Ernest and Welch 100 percent got glow ups. I love Chisato and Bowman but I feel Tear Gas did sadly get nerfed. Bowman has some decent moves and he carried my party a good portion of the game.
I don't know why they did Chisato like that man. But she's still usable. All characters are good.
Yes to ranking based on story relevance please! Helps new players to choose which ones to go for especially if they plan to do one play through only (casual player)
You got it
Precis getting a barrier with Forcefield makes her such a blast to play now. Early game Celine got some heavy nerfs with taking a lot of her all target spells down to limited area. I found that having break damage barrier on mages helped, as the nukes could help give fighters some breathing room. Glad you loved the Remake, I did too! Now for a second run to get Opera; I am excited to break the game wide open with her.
Opera will carry you on her back!
Celine Ashton Precis Noel Leon Welch are still pure CRAP in this version and will NEVER be in my party EVER bloody armor a lv 100 Claude Opera Dias Bowman/Chisato party ASAP even on Earth mode in the R version and NEVER EVER REMOVE IT.
@@veghesther3204 sorry bud. Welch and Precis are literally the best in the game now.
Nope IMHO they BOTH suck Precis can't be bloody armored so she STILL sucks and Welch is pure crap even WITH it.
Man, I'm finally getting around to playing this after waiting YEARS thinking it would never get made. Instant sub after I watched your character acquisition video. Awesome channel big dawg 🤙🤙🤙
I put Rena in my top 4, she is by far the best shield breaker with Gravity Crush. It isnt particularly fun to spam it, but it made alot of the annoying bonus bosses less frustrating if you are not going to exploit the broken Bloody Armor mechanic.
Im sorry sir with all due respect but i have some thoughts. Mine are abit biased and just as a caveat i have never used Ernest, chisato or opera. So here me out, Nor have i played any version outside of the original. Im interested in R but not sure.
1. I have no idea why bowman gets so much hate. He's fucking awesome. The sakura attack is the fist equivalent of the mirror slice. Explosion pills carried me threw the field of intelligence. Also the explosive fist once leveled up literally encompassed his entire body and turne d it into a huge attack.
2. Dias you're absolutely right. Very useful throughout the game. His killer moves made up for his slow ass regular sword attack.
Im going to say this and i mean this from the bottom of my heart. The Illusion once leveled up into a 5 hit combo plus the bunny shoes is God tier and i don't care what anyone says.
3. Ashton can easily be the best player in this game but he's pretty weak ij the beginning. The sword dance and dragon breath plus tri Ace cant be beaten.
4. Nothing can ever make me never ever Believe claude is not the best character in this game. The link combo i out his mirror slice and twin slash together and it was a think a 20 hit combo.
My biggest struggle with Claude was the fact there was only 2 slots I could use for his killer moves. While they started iff pretty mediocre in the beginning of the game. It really took off towards the lacour arms tournament.
Ripper blast
Burst knucke
Sword bomber
Dragon howel
Mirror slice
Omg i love claude
@@carltongraham1240 I promise the remake really changes how they feel/play. Sakura attack was great in the original, not so much in remake, plus Bowman has bad weapon choices. Ashton got a hard nerf, he doesn't have the best normal anymore and sword dance animates too long with no movement. He just gets outshined in the remake.
Claude... I mean, the argument can be made for Claude since he self-heals. But raw damage he is outdone by Precis and Welch. Opera is also just an amazing all-rounder. But Claude is busted without being overly busted. I do love him too, lol.
Highly encourage trying the remake - it's amazing.
@@SolaceAndDread I'm going to try the remake. It also looks as tho in the remake he regains his phase gun. That wasn't done in the original. Also he only self healed with the energy sword which u didn't use because it took up slots that I wanted to preserve for other combos.
Who in the hell is Welch? Is she a new character ?
Welch showed up in the PSP release of SO2 but she's now been in every star ocean game.
Also yeah, the phase gun coming back was amazing.
This has always been my go to team:
Rena, Claude, Dias, and Ashton with Celiene, Bowman, Noel, and Chisato on the bench.
That was mine in the original games too
Noel's ultimate weapon gives a 25% chance for auto-life upon healing. This is absurdly powerful and abusable and makes him a better healer than Rena.
Dias's ultimate weapon gives him 100% crit chance, meaning that you can load him out with the craziest equipment factor set up like having him use crit heal + the stupid powerful All for One Star Guard found in the MoT.
Speaking of insane factors, there is this gale earring with 20% HP absorb that turns female fighters immortal in battle. Gale earring + earring of frenzy (I think this is the name, the insane +200% ATK one, which is better than the Ring of Might in almost all aspects) means that you can put MP absorb on a weapon, which in turn means that characters like Opera that usually live at the back of the battlefield absolutely thrive.
Chisato and Ashton were done dirty, and I agree that Chisato especially is a worse fighter. Her best moves now are Flamethrower and 10,000 Volts, which is so lame. Deadly Triangle has a lock on of sorts now, but it still isn't that great, and Tri-Ace doesn't feel like the ultimate move it should be.
Claude was always the jack-of-all-trades, but he doesn't feel as powerful as he was. And even though the Phase Gun is an amazing attack, it feels kind of lame that one of his best moves isn't the result of his training and his development as a character, just a loop to the beginning of the game where he needed this kind of crutch.
Ernest is absolutely great now, he's very fun to play. Which is absolutely a shame that Bowman is still an Inferno Pellet spammer and nothing more. What a missed opportunity.
Leon and Celine are the eternal assault slot bench warmers. But you can at least deploy Celine for some serious Meteor Swarm multi hit shenanigans. It's calling a nuke at the press of the d-pad.
I maintain that this is far and away the best version of Star Ocean 2. But there are so many odd choices and weird quirks in the remake. Which, granted, was already part of the charm of the original, so maybe it's their way of respecting tradition.
Great video as always. God bless you.
Thanks! I appreciate the love.
I feel differently about a few points, particularly Noel since like I said in the beginning, post-game isn't the only consideration (and he doesn't have Angel Feather. ) But I very much appreciate the differing pov ❤️
@@SolaceAndDread Apologies, I understood the intent of your video, I was just making general comments on the characters and their gameplay.
Gear does affect massively how good a character is. When you consider that the earring combo is immediately available to Chisato, I would question whether or not Ashton does rank higher than her. Ashton simply has the advantage of being introduced much earlier, and thus being generally more useful.
@@4Clubs The real issue regarding Noel, and to a lesser extent Opera and Rena, is that group healing power is completely obsoleted by the Drain Factors. Natural Vice could be said to improve Noel to the extent that he's a better in-battle healer than Rena, but Auto-Life doesn't matter if your characters aren't taking damage at all. Rena has Raise Dead during a time when you might actually need it and 3 major buffs (Power Up, Guard, and Angel Feather) compared to just Noel having Bless.
In regards to the HP Drain Gale Earring, that is actually something unique for Welch, Opera, and Chisato (Celine could also use it but is held back by cast times). I don't think too much credit should be given here though because it costs you an accessory slot, and not using a Berserker Ring roughly halves damage potential (which for Opera and Chisato is already meager). You might say I'm overemphasizing damage, but killing enemies faster means you're also taking less hits and don't need the healing.
The Earring of Frenzy is quite powerful but -50% HIT is a very significant downside on Universe. You need like 1200 HIT to reliably hit the EQ in post game, and none of them are making it there while wearing it. The reason Welch is in a class of her own is that her best weapon is incredibly strong (2500 ATK) and bypasses accuracy. Chisato's Psychic Gun can do this too, but that's a paltry 980 ATK, after the Earring, that's a final power difference of over *4500*!
It’s fun to see how characters rate here compared to the original. Especially since I’ve been so busy that I haven’t gotten to dive into this remake yet.
I do want to do at least one playthrough with Ashton on the team since he was such a favourite originally. But will be nice to use some characters that really took a step up in this version also (as much as possible anyways).
Ashton makes me cry they did him wrong lmao.
Like I said tho, every single character is useful
They nerfed Chisato so much. I absolutely loved her in the original :(
Bowman + Chisato was such a nasty spam duo. I havent played the remaster yet but they were so fun in the original.
@@Insanityltself yes I liked Bowman a lot in the original as well. Chisato was needed, her Tear Gas takes forever to start and it's area of effects has beenndraticay reduced. Also her cartwheel and 10,000 volts were way more impactful in the original but I understand they tried to balance some of the OP characters.
I personally find that glass cannons are better at being assault characters...so I kinda see them as lesser than others
More balanced team with utility during battle.
So precis, for me, is lower.
However, not gotten to post game yet :)
Got to the end game and realized I wasn't going to go back to Edia, realized I would not be able to fish, realized I wouldn't be able to fight the special bosses and so restarted a new game !
great video and gave me a lot to think about playing through this version of the game which, youre right, warrants a new re-ranking due to their changes. thanks!
Nice, no problem! Honestly every character is viable.
I missed my chance of getting Opera, will replay or load older save.
Bloody Armor on Opera is absolutly broken... or at least superarmor so your heal never gets interrupted.
@@menryyami3162 I mean bloody armor on anyone is broken tbh as long as they have heals.
My favorite character is Bowman.I play him al9t.
I agree with so many of your concepts, here. Opera is definitely the best character in the game!
I haven't had a chance to check out the new weapons from the update though.
Do you think this list would change from that?
so happy about Precis. I love her character and her attacks in the original PS1 version. Her Parabola beam was fun to use. The move where she throws Bobot 1 and 2.0 is a fun kiting move. Her Bloody Mary reminds me of Tron Bonne (I love Tron from Mega Man legends).
Sad about Chisato. And i agree wholeheartedly about Opera being the strongest character.
How is her Alpha on One move?
I'm unable to buy the game because they ran out of the physical copy in the city where I'm living.
@ on one isn't as good as it used to be but still good. Her other moves are game breaking though, so she's got some versatility.
Also yeah, Chisato's tear gas nerf is sad. The damage is reduced because it's break-focused now, but she doesn't have any good HP moves to replace it. They really screwed her up.
Just a question for I did not play the Remake version. Was Welch in the original game?! I just find her slap-fighting style realy hilarious 😁😁😁
@@binhanh296 she was not in the original game but she was in the remaster on PSP
@SolaceAndDread ok, thanks 😊😊😊
The rangers are always the GOATs of their title! Marielle, Emmerson, Reimi, Maria, Opera…not Ronyx though lol
Ronyx is the best STORY character of SO1 😂
On my NG+ going for Ashton Dias Bowman and Noel on this run, did Opera and the whip guy last round
Thanks!
What would your list look like if it only includes post game?
Also, cus chisato is a fighter, I would still rank her ahead of the spell casters.
As for Ernest, I think I rank him lower cus he lacked certain armors that were necessary to stay alive in the final dungeons/bosses.
Also, Noel has his use in the off team, so i would rank him higher. With Noel, I don’t need to worry about wasting items on healing. He’s like an extra free out of battle healer and antidote… good for both serious and casual players. Having two healers is essential because of this, imho.
My final end game team would always choose
1. Rena
2. Claude
3. Dias
4. Précis
5. Welch
6. Noel
7. Chisato
8. Opera or Ashton(my fav character)
I wish they would add a secret where you can get both Ashton and opera on the same team. I’d kick out Chisato for Ashton.
Yoooo, thank you!
Noel has specific uses that make him pretty useful but overall he's just... Meh. And yeah my hate for Chisato in the remake is strong lol. I could see an argument for her being a bit higher.
@@SolaceAndDread so what is your post game only ranking? If you have it?
Chisato is op. Give her the gauntlet that you get from defeating the pet in the maze of tribulations. It allows her to heal when doing damage. Next you want 2 accessories. One is a pair of earrings that drastically increases attack at the cost of some hit but it's worth it. The other item allows you to simply adds extra attacks when doing normals. Equip bloody armor and bunny shoes then disable any special attacks. She will never die and hits like a truck.
Lol NO ONE dies if you put bloody armor on them.
Correct but Noel Welch Ashton are still pure Crap WITH it so before you can even GET HP drain weapons keep Opera with 9999 HP lv 100 using Healing Star for 5000 healing so that the armors HP drain effect won't kill you the ONLY default weapon that has it is that Phantom Slayer weapon Bowman/Chisato and BOTH of them are ONLY found in that dungeon floor 5 then again on a 8th floor chest.
@@veghesther3204 nope. You're not playing the same game you were 20 years ago. 😂
I’m loving this game! 18 hours in and just consuming all content Star Ocean second story R related. It’s hard not to fomo with characters, gotta do multiple playthroughs
Team Dias.
Thankfully tier lists dont matter.
My first play through i just played my favorites from the past with a party of
Leon Ernest Opera and Noel
2nd playthrough was my universe run with all the mages only. So Celine Rena Leon and Noel. It was a blast. The only fights i had to switch someone was for the spell supressions but other than that i didnt really have any trouble on universe and it was my most fun playthrough
I used Leon as an Assault character for his post game final spell and it made him quite useful ^^.
In fact yeah mages are very useful as an Assault character.
Yep! Extinction is great
I kept Leon in my party for a large portion of universe mode except when I was forced to sub out spell casters due to magic being disabled. Extinction and gremlin lair are EXCELLENT shield breakers. Celine's true ultimate weapon adds a lot to her viability if you equip her with earrings of frenzy. I don't know how I feel about your placing of Chisato but she's disappointing to use compared to the OG game where she and Ashton were my favorites.
I disagree about mages not being fun to use but to each his own. You kinda have to make them work and the path of least resistance is probably going with a 4th melee fighter. Celine is really good for angel feather on assault mode though with her upgraded ultimate weapon I like using her actively.
A lot of the new ultimate weapons skyrocketed many lower tier characters' viability but the problem is that you probably won't have most of them til after CoT. Personally im doing a ng+ where levels reset along with skills so I can keep my stuff and im trying chaos mode.
I like your tier list more than the other guys (not going to name call..).
Why isnt fun to play as a mage ?
Chisato might not be great in the actual party, but she's top tier as an assault summon. Using the skill that summons the bombs is the most damage you can bring in off your bench, which is actually a pretty big deal in this game.
I think you got it right except I'd rank Celine a bit higher. I tend to recruit her instead of Noel. Celine's useful in the party for the first 1/3 of the game (also for Skills, etc!), and she's perfectly fine on Assault throughout the rest of the playthrough. Noel joins too late to be relevant imo.
I’ll say that my Fav. Remains Bowman….but it’s because his Japanese Seiyu is Big Daddy Vegeta’s voice 😊
i play in chaos and completed everything with all the new weapons unlocked too... opera is 2nd to precis interms of raw damage output. no one in my team does damage close to forcefield spam with her new weapon. welch is bad because she lacks aerial enemies. for me with all the new weapons its precis, opera, dias... then here comes the fun part. ashton and earnest are almost equal because hurrican blade with his new weapon turns every skill he was a weakspot hit. earnest with his wind orb thing spam too will also do the same but with more hits and less damage. claude is one of the worst of the bunch with chisato too along with the mages... im torn with bowman because it feels he does no damage? but he does damage indeed. even more than chisato which is weird in some ways.... but in a really balanced team i would say yes opera would be a must have on the team with her new weapon which firest homing shots everytime she skills or attacks is just ridiculous... welch is super weird to use because she needs an all male team with her to ramp up her damage paired with no aerial attacks... precis hits 99k but cant use bloody gears but still will survive all chaos bosses with forcefield spam outside the enemy range kinda like opera.
I think most people have this weird gripe with mages in every RPG. Everyone always gushes over the guy w a sword tho
I wanted to love the mages but they're just objectively worse than most of the the fighters lol. I will say the newer Star Ocean games did mages much much better
😂😂😂😂😂😂 dead at gushes I've the guy with the sword 😂😂😂
nice I'm in the final boss battle with all the worst characters
Lol 😂 remember every character is viable. Though if it's unlimited Gabriel you're gonna struggle a bit lol
Really sad to hear about Chisato's nerf in the remake, guess maybe I'll try Precis since I never really gave her a chance in the OG.
You can still make her work, but she's a far cry from her former glory
Im gonna use celine forever just cuz of her THUNDERBOLTT voice spam
4:45 did they give bowman range?
Me: playing blind and somehow only have the lower level characters 😂 Claude, Welch, Precis and Diaz are carrying, but I somehow love playing as Noel and Ashton
my team are opera , claude , dias , rena ,
on bench , precis , ernest , welch , and celine .. i thought i got all the best character by my side
I just finish the game with only chisato.the dmg dealer.... Her final skill deals massive dmg lol.... I didn't know she was nerfed...
Like I said: every character is viable
Chisato is the reason why I rather play the original or that PSP port. So glad Till The End of Time didn't get a remake.
No offense, but Second Story R doesn't exactly hold the candle to Alter Code f. I don't like remakes that nerf characters.
Tear Gas nerf hurts my heart.
Mine too
Mmmiiirrrrrroooorrrr sslllaaassshhhh x 100 times until credits roll
Precis is the strongest with her ultimate weapon.
Welch gives her a run for her money
Welch #2? I actually never used Welch ever lol
@@stew904 she's waaaaaaasay better than she was in SO2SE
Opera is STILL number 1, what a surprise... (sarcasm)
You're selling Leon slightly short in your explanation. He has Power Up on Assault, which frees Rena up to use Angel Feather (if you don't have Celine), or Raise Dead (if you do). He can also become invincible via the Valiant Mail which is something that Rena and Celine cannot do. Funny enough the gap between caster and fighter damage seems to be even *greater* now, which you kind of already mention, so I won't belabor that point.
I would argue that Celine's use of Angel Feather (and the fact that she is the earliest possible extra body for SP usage) makes her worth more than anything Noel could ever contribute. The early game advantage is so significant that I'd say dropping her to have room for Chisato is actually a mistake, even though the latter is still much stronger in terms of damage.
Bowman's Poison Pills / Explosion Pills are definitely the way to go, and it's boring like you say. In terms of main-game weapons, ignore Burst of Fire entirely and get Fists of the Moon instead (Knuckles of the Moon + Diamond) - 100 less ATK, but no element, and lots of other good stats.
Noel's neat but I don't think even with the most favorable interpretation he could be better than Bowman. Self-Medication has been buffed to cure statuses and covers an area now so he even creeps up on him in healing.
Ashton vs. Bowman is a real discussion because Bowman is solid all main-game, but falls off in post and Ashton is mediocre until he gets Levantine where he starts to recover his former glory. Hurricane Slash is also good. For a casual player, I think Bowman is better, but if you're committed to doing everything Ashton isn't too much of a drag main game (because frankly it's very easy) and he can even be in the top 4 discussion for speed kills at the very end.
Ernest vs. Opera is another real discussion because I don't think a seasoned player will actually need any of what Opera brings to the table anymore. Her damage is going to be better than his (if she can hit anything), but Bed of Roses with Glorious Thorn is probably the best AI spam / mob fight move in the game because of how it doesn't need movement and target switches instantly.
Your (and seemingly everyone's) estimation of Dias is completely off - he's much better than he was in the original. Dias' primary weakness was always that even though he could hit hard, he couldn't multi-hit effectively at all. Everyone says Air Slash is worse somehow, but that's just not true. Piercing enemies and always multi-hitting lets it be way more powerful than it ever was before; the MP cost increase was definitely justified. Add to this the fact that the damage cap is removable, and the ridiculous power on Dias' weapons (his new super weapon can be gotten even before he is recruited if you use Bloody Armor), he can have post-game performance in the main-game. Just as an aside, Full Moon Slash might be the best Break Art in the game.
Claude is, was, and always will be, the best character in the game. I don't know how you came to the conclusion that he isn't overpowered anymore. He has the third best DPS in the game thanks to Meteor Palm's insane buffs, and can be in a position to solo it before the two that beat him (Welch and Precis) even join the team. Aeterna isn't as overwhelmingly dominant as it used to be, but it's still a hugely powerful weapon you can get a quarter of the way through. Now that Sword of Life is an attack as well as heal, you can braindead Bloody Armor whenever you want, even if you never recruit another character at all.
Precis is great, assuming you make her Forcefield right away, its Bed of Roses, light on the AI smarts, and very heavy on the damage. Her frailty actually is a point against her since she's the only fighter who can't be completely cheese invincible. Post-game the Roaring Burst Puncher is just comically powerful.
What you say about Welch is pretty much true. Slappity-Slap, I don't even know what the developers were thinking. Her Duel Battle A weapon is, uncharacteristically, loaded with stats and will easily carry her until you get the bonkers Gutsy Handy Stick in post-game. Levantine, Hachimentei, GHS and RBP are so, so much better than the other super-weapons I have to wonder if the developers were playing favorites. I expected all of them to at least be on par with Farwell...
Opera I kind of already went into, but despite the power, Healing Star is less necessary than ever since all the other self-heals got buffed and Assault Actions exist. That was really her claim to fame because in terms of damage she won't compete without an Earring of Frenzy. Her weapons have such poor ATK and the accuracy penalty hurts her the most since her new super weapon has a resounding 0 HIT (it also comes very late), but maybe that's only an issue on Universe. Effective damage at a safe range is a niche, but Dias, Precis, and Ernest can all also do that and don't suffer the same weapon dearth.
(Hard agree with playing favorites on Welch.)
- Leon sucks. I wouldn't put him above anyone other than Chisato. I stand behind that, regardless of his ~2 buffs.
I agree with the masses on Dias. Multi hit was never the issue with him because of how fast his attacks came out, so no long animations to get stuck behind and you could chase the angels/Gabe. I can concede on the MP thing.
Bowman can't self-heal out of petrification or paralysis, so that doesn't matter. They're the only real statues you need to worry about 99% of the time. And explosion pills getting blue damage so often sucks too. Noel lets you do the impossible. Bowman hates you. 🤷🏾♂️ Both crappy, one has utility.
Opera's damage might fall off comparatively, but she still wrecks everything in main story on Universe (and a third of CoT before atrophy) easier than Claude for a casual player. That's why everyone loves her. Also, self heals do not compare to healing star's 10k in 4 seconds for the whole team.
Also, when I say Claude isn't overpowered, I mean that he's not your only sensible option to play. many ARPG's have comparatively overpowered MC's and there's nearly no point to playing the others. Claude is good, but the fact that he isn't highest DPS alone is reason enough to justify the train of thought. He's a great protag.
I can tell you're a speedrunner. Most of this clearly showed bias. Solace said this was about all encompassing. Opera's damage handles everything in the base game and instantly full heals the whole party regardless of range. She's the best.
@@charlessheridan2082 Bias for what? Everyone's damage can "handle everything in the base game", because it is easy. Opera's damage is low even despite her ability to equip the Earring of Frenzy because her weapons are mediocre (and unlike most other characters, her post-game weapon is barely an improvement), and her most damaging moves are elemental. Her bigshot Hyper Launcher is Light elemental, which can't even damage Michael, Lucifer, or Gabriella Celesta. Healing Star is really all that sets her apart, which becomes less relevant the stronger you are since enemies die so much faster. It's also nerfed relatively by the fact that Claude and Bowman's self-heals are significantly better in this version. And that's before we get into the ludicrous power of Drain Factors in post-game. I'll give her this, Healing Star is probably the best Assault heal, but I can't possibly call a character who's best position is on the bench the "best".
@@Expelsword014 I guess you are in fact a speedrunner, lol.
"because it's easy" exactly, and her damage is enough to handle everything in base and most of post game even on Universe. sure it's "less" but it still works and it's safe. having her in your party means everyone is instantly healed to max with healing star. did you watch the rules part of the video? he said everyone used in a general sense, not just min-maxed and yet you keep talking about post game. Opera is great for casuals and works for everyone for MOST of the game. THAT'S why she's the best, even if she falls slots at the end.
@@charlessheridan2082 How much damage you can deal is a very relevant metric - arguably the most - because unlike in previous versions, the obvious "best" strategy of using Bloody Armor can be done without extending them ad-infinitum with healing animations. (The fastest group healing animation on Healing Star *was* Opera's most well known feature partially because of it's synergy with this strategy, which more than anything speaks to the persistence of a certain Esther...)
Before you have the ability to surpass the damage limit, everyone will be topping out at the same level of damage. How far they can go beyond this depends on the quality of their post-game weapons. I do consider Opera to be better than Bowman, Ashton, and Chisato (despite that in post-game both men can out-damage her), because post-game damage isn't everything, but post-game *is* the part where you'll notice your choices mattering the most.
I cannot call Opera the best in the game - that title most assuredly goes to Claude, who can beat the game by himself. When I say this, I don't mean it literally (as in, he can beat it by himself because he is present the whole game), I mean that he has the easiest time beating it alone out of anyone. Claude is effective through the entire game. He has good stats all around, lots of useful Arts (including one that heals himself *and* does damage), and his best main-game weapon (which is as strong as some post-game ones) can be acquired before most other characters are playable. Claude becomes *more* dominant in post-game, where his status as a male swordsman gives him access to the Levantine Sword for absurd damage, and the Valiant Mail, which you can use to become invincible without needing *any* way of healing.
Rawr
as usual well said.
Ernest was always the worst. Noel is only worth it once you have the million staff.
I can't not give the #1 spot to Claude. Yes it takes a bit of game knowledge but you can get the Aeterna so early and it's gonna carry well into the postgame. Sword of Life is also really cracked imo since it's AoE for both healing and damage.
Also is Hurricane Slash not considered good? I really like spamming it.
* sigh... *
am i the only one that misses PS1 annoying precis voice? it was charming
I miss all the PS1 voices except Opera
I threw opera out of my party yesterday.... LMAO
😂 well. You didn't NEED her
I disagree with this list on some points.
One of your arguments about Precis is that some skills make her immortal. Chisato's ultimate, in addition to calling monsters' aggro, makes her invincible while summoning missiles, meaning she is perfect for tanking any enemy in the game without the need to resort to blood armor.
Your gameplay video of Ernest makes him look extremely inferior to Ashton. It makes him look bad, in addition to having bad techniques against powerful enemies, unless he has other members that make it easier for him.
Welch: She is extremely bad when she joins the group and only improves towards the end of the game with better weapons. Isn't it contradictory to place it so high since it only looks good when it is highly upgraded and has excellent equipment? Even Chisato, even coming in late, is more useful without leveling up.
Claude: With the Energy Sword he can literally play alone while healing and dealing area damage with a very low investment of equipment. How can he be inferior to Welch when she needs a lot of levels, as well as a lot of investment to get good?
PS: His Mirror Blade was always bad, even in the original.
In your comparison, I had the feeling that it was based a lot on the weapon creation system. Celine, for example, with an elemental staff that increases the percentage of fire magic damage makes Explode clear the screen in seconds. Even so, you treated her as very bad in your tone of voice and impressions. It seems like you based this analysis more on fun than the actual usefulness/impact of the characters.
PS 1: I need to sign below about Chisato. She suffered a very big nerf to her Tear Gas. What they did was a crime.
PS 2: Opera is the best even in the original. She deals damage and also heals the entire party.
Gonna disagree sharply about Welch. I grabbed her and used her from the start on Universe and even before she gets Slappity-Slap (and then forever after) she was nuts. She starts strong and stays strong. And then post game she's one of two characters to out-dps Claude. That's why she's better.
Chisato's "tank" also means she's not doing damage during the call of the missiles, and when it hits, it's paltry DPS
And Ernest IS better than Ashton. He just is - Until very very late with the levantine sword. Ernest's moves are legitimately some of the best for the AI to spam in the game.
Also fun is a factor, but not the driving force. If that was the case, the mages would be all at the bottom, then Bowman, then the rest. It was balance of post-game, story content and ease of use.
My comment is based on what you said in your videos about making Claude's overpowered weapon and abusing the crafting system from the beginning. I remember you saying this in your videos.
In my game I avoided breaking the game with the creation system as much as possible as it completely unbalances the entire gameplay. Taking this into consideration, I tested each character in the game as soon as we recruited them and Welch always had the worst DPS, in addition to usefulness in the group (Claude, Opera, Celine and Rina). It takes a long time to cause damage, unless you abuse the creation system a lot.
About Chisato: I used her as a tank because I really didn't want to take away the fun of the game by abusing the creation system. For example: I never use blood armor. Taking this into consideration, my game was really difficult throughout the entire gameplay. You couldn't take Claude out since he could heal if necessary, and Opera, Chisato and Bowman always performed better than Welch. Again remembering that I didn't abuse the creation system, even though I created Cloud's best weapon ever with HP absorption.
That's why I can't agree that Welch is above the others (since she only gets so good if we break the game). I tested her (several times) during the story and in DPS, in addition to her usefulness, without breaking the game, she was always behind: she didn't have any support skills for the group that would make me remove Claude (tank, DPS and healing), Opera (break, dps and healing) or Celine (area attack, area buff and then massive explosions in every battle).
PS 1: My Chisato, even with the tank build, was giving 20k for each bomb that fell from the skill. I did it for fun so I could play with her, Opera, Celine and Rina.
PS 2: My point with Welch is that she needs support and brings nothing to the group other than damage if the game isn't broken with the crafting system.
PS 3: I would really like to have seen a normal gameplay of yours to be able to understand how you can like Welch so much even though she is inferior to the others in the story (in the post game she is a monster, like almost everyone else).
PS 4: And please don't misunderstand me. It's not an attack or anything like that. But in the normal game (during the story) I couldn't see Welch being that good.@@SolaceAndDread
@@eliasfranca7173 I don't think it's an attack. I just genuinely loved playing with her. The moment she gets Slappity-Slap she really was a DPS machine. And no, those videos are tips, but I tried not to break the game either, lol.
@@eliasfranca7173 Welch is only weak if you don't use Item Creation. You are looking at the tier list from the wrong perspective - the characters who can break the game most easily are better, and they get bonus points for being good in other contexts (this is why I firmly believe Claude to be the best of all, he is never bad in any context), you can pretty much make everyone's best customizable weapons right after you get them thanks to the Challenge Missions giving out high level materials to use, and her higher end weapons are not bad at all.
As a matter of fact, you can get Welch's second best weapon from Duel Battle at the same time you get Chisato's ultimate weapon (right after you recruit her), and it's miles better.
i never had dias in the OG. now i got him and... i think he is SO DAMN WEAK. airslash is his best move! WTF!!
there are so many chars who are better than him!
😂
Airslash IS his best move. Illusion isn't horrible though.
And with item creation he can carry you until endgame. 😊
@@SolaceAndDreadyeah but he is so boring to play... and his normal is awefull.
deadly illusion is his second best but all other specials are actually shit! what the hell!?
really expected more from him with his whole attitude of "seeking strength"...
ernest is so good now but so damn annyoing...
claud,Opera,Precis are constant party members
but the fourth spot is still open.
Rena cant compete with healing star.
Chisato has been nerfed to kingdom come but is still good
guess i am gonna go with welch but she has no AOE attacks what so ever.
guess the perfect party does not exist.
@@sion7651 Welch is legitimately one of the best characters in the game. Second best if not THE best. Check out our ranking video sometime. Welch is godly lmao
@@SolaceAndDreadnow that i got mithril fist she got the spot XD the AOE i have been missing with her!
and i got hyper launcher with OPera... as if the wasn't insane enough...
already watched your ranking video twice because you put Chisato dead last😅... dias is worse😅
@@sion7651 Dias with Aeterna is hard carry for the whole game! You can get it as soon as soon as you finish the tourney of arms (pickpocket gamgee)
Why didn't i remember Welsh? I played the crap out of the original.
@@lostnumbr welch was added in the PSP remaster.
I was so disappointed by mages in this game. I was hoping they'd get a huge playability boost from the original, and they're arguably worse as a whole (and get worse and worse the farther you go in the game, outclassed by fighters). I still loved the game overall, but this was a swing and a miss by SE.
Agreed. They didn't get mages TRULY right until SO6 imo, but 4 and 5 had some okay mage action.
Square Enix had nothing to do with development, gemdrops studios developed this game, in fact square Enix has never developed a star ocean game, tri ace was the developer up until this game, square Enix has been purely a publisher when it comes to star ocean
@@mathewhosier9739 akshully - members of the tri-Ace team did help with this title under gemdrops banner. But yes, you're otherwise correct.
Dias 🔥💯🔥💯
i cant get over the voices of ashton and ernest... the voice of ashton does not fit him at al!!
all the other characters, especially precis, sound amazing!
I agree so much. I loved his English voice in the PS1 Version!!!
I haven't watched the video yet, but if you don't rank all the waifus above the small pp group, then your list is void 😉 😅
Damn. 100% called out, I'm a fraud
The fact you didn't put Bowman last... I'm disappointed lmao. I kid but i was sad about mages being so awkward to play. I rarely used them and tried to force Leon in but he ended up being replaced by Ernest in the long run. 😂
that should speak to how unbiased I was!
Chisato has the easiest "always hit" weapon to get and can wear frenzy earrings. She can hit 9999 attack before post game, last is crazy. Sure, tear gas got nerfed, but only to keep her from "just as good as claude and Welch (post game only for her)" rank. While she's the last to recruit, she's also probably easiest to make into a killer before post-game.
Every woman fighter in going to be hitting harder than the guys because of the frenzy earring/feet symbol combo so you don't even need the always hit weapon, just that two earrings will get you to 9999 fastest.
Lol I stand behind this.
Claude, Dias and Bowman all do 9999 damage more easily than her in base game - same for Opera. She's not the easiest. And when they do, they do it more consistently. Her DPS is legitimately lower than every other fighter and Tear Gas is her best break move and it's not even good, the mages do it better. She doesn't stand out in any meaningful way. Lol she is well placed. All her special moves, range and normals are mid at best and post game she doesn't compare to anyone.
I'm sorry, but this is untrue. Just because a double Earring of Frenzy wearer can reach 9999 ATK listed easily doesn't mean they do the most damage overall. Opera and Chisato's weapons are so bad that they are fighting an uphill battle, and that's before considering accuracy.
Part of the reason Welch is considered so godly is because her ultimate weapon offsets the accuracy penalty completely, but notably it also has 2500 ATK. When tripled by Frenzy, that's a 7500 ATK minimum. Chisato's Psychic Gun with the same effect only has a power of 980, (2940 when tripled) meaning Welch has 4500 ATK lead over her with Frenzy. No problem, we can just wear a second Frenzy, now she's getting another ~3k, which is probably enough to put her near the cap. The issue is that Welch is hitting the cap with 1 accessory, meaning she can use a Berserker Ring in the other slot to be literally twice as powerful. If we decide to use a Foot Symbol instead, Welch's second best weapon (2000) and Chisato's strongest weapon (1600) are available at the same time in the main game, neither are capping, but Welch has a healthy 1200 ATK lead.
No fair to compare Welch to Chisato, you say, she's got the Frenzy too! Chisato would be crushing someone who can't wear it! Aeterna has a base power of 1600. Claude can only double it with a Ring of Might but that's 3200 ATK, which is still slightly more than Psychic Gun Chisato has from Frenzy. Comparing to Dias is even worse. Crimson Devil starts out losing (1100 x 2 vs. 980 x 3), but doubles all damage after the fact, so it's actually 4400 in practice.
The gap gets comical when you allow the post game swords (nevermind that Dias' can actually be gotten before you even have *him* in the party). Levantine's insane 3000 base ATK becomes 6000 when doubled. This gets them pretty close to the cap after their stats, and then they get to wear the Berserker Ring to double it again. On top of this, Levantine has a bonus effect that more than doubles damage *again* if you're at low HP.
I'm shocked that you put Bowman over star witch mommy
Me too.