@@luchirimoya yea I can try and find the clip but the head Writer for S1 said that for the first season they had a whole staff basically working a 9-5 on the script for a year . For S2 they had her , the co producer and 1-2 other people . Some of which weren’t the main force behind the script of S1 .
@@Constantine_James Have you seen the statements made by those writers? Christian's crashout, especially. It really reads like they didn't know what made season 1 so great and are upset with the fans for not liking it
Yes, there's nothing in S1 that indicates Silco knew sisters personally. Powder jumps on Silco because she believes she was just abandoned by Vi. And Silco reacts this uncharacteristic way because sees himself in her - just like he was abandoned by Vander. Moreover, Silco says to Vi in S1E6 "I've regretted we never had an opportunity to speak"
Nothing in the flashbacks indicates that he knew them well or at all ether. Felicia is pregnant with Vi, and they all work in the mines, but we only see Vander visiting the kids in his memories. Silco may not have been as close, and didn't look as engaged in the flashback. Her death also didn't seem to affect him as much as Vander ether.
@@TheExitStrategy In the flashback all 3 of them seem to be pretty close. So then, Silco is close with Vander, close with Felicia (she's comfortable enough to put them both on the hook for Blisters and Bedrock), knows that Felicia's older kid is named Violet as Vander suggested, but this never comes up during S1? Silco doesn't even use this in any way to his advantage during S1, if he seeks to undermine Vander? Vi being Felicia's daughter doesn't come up in S1E3? A way simpler explanation is that this was a retcon to squeeze out an emotional moment.
@dmitrigherson5160 why or how would he bring it up? He likely knew the parents of Milo and Claggor too. Silco is a smooth talker, and a natural leader, you think he didn't have influence on the members of his revolution? He would have likely known most if not all of them.
@dmitrigherson5160 also in the flashback, Silco spends the first half engaged in his notes. He barely has any dialog, and certainly nothing noteworthy to contribute. Vande4 and Felisha, by contrast, seem intimately engaged (very intimately, if you notice the song they conveniently cut the lyrics to playing).
@@TheExitStrategy In the flashback, Felicia calls them 'bozos', and they joke about who's 'bozo 1' and who's 'bozo 2'. They are clearly close. Even if Silco is preoccupied with the notes, he's present. No way "Vi is Felicia's daughter" wouldn't come up in S1E3, when Vi was about to fight Silco's goons. No way Vander wouldn't have brought it up. In an attempt to save Vi, at least. Also, (while I personally think it is a terrible idea to suggest Vander and SIlco would've reconciled over an apology letter) the way the letter is written - "When she died" - also clearly indicates both Vander and Silco know "who". There isn't even a name. They both clearly would know the person Vander mentions in the letter.
Look, some people were saying "this explains why Silco adopted Jinx!!" and I was simply confused. If Silco adopted Jinx because he knew their mom, wouldn't it have made more sense for him to try and get Vi too, since _she's_ the daughter that was referenced in this scene??? Instead...he tries to kill her😂😂
I don't think Silco adopted Jinx just because he knew her mother. When he saw Powder alone and crying with hate, he related with her on a personal level (there is an obvious parallelism between Vander and Silco, and jinx and vi)
A cute scene at the cost of the the overall Zaun story theme. I mean, vander takes in random kids, silco takes in a relatively random girl, jinx takes in a random girl, Ekko takes in random zaunites in need to his place. But nope he was on the hook.
Yes, exactly! The scene with Jinx and Silco was so powerful because there was NOTHING in common between them, they were complete strangers to eachother. THE ONLY THING that they shared together and that made Silco reconsider probably killing this girl is that she had been left betrayed by her sister, so as him
They were "on the hook" to make Zaun a reality. That was what she asked for, for a better FUTURE for her kids. Both failed to deliver that. Vender chose the safety of the enemy you know, and silco chose self-serving ambition at the cost of his dream (drug lord ambitions, before Jayce practically dropped the Nation of Zaun in his lap). E7 shows the possible future they could have had, even possibly had the two men actually continued to work together.
I really don't like how this scene makes Silco and Vander's dream of Zaun feel more directly motivated by a promise to a friend, then on their vision for a better future. It's more interesting if they're motivated by ideology and not a personal promise. I think it makes sense that they would have had mutual friends that would have contributed to their motivation for Zaun, but this scene just goes too far to have Felicia say they gotta "do it for her". The letter is even worse though, because it makes it seem like Vander and Silco's falling out happened just because Felicia died (cuz Vander "lost his head") AND that if Silco had just found this really poorly written apology then everything would have been fixed. But the actual reason for their dispute in ep3 is because of their opposing ideologies about how to deal with Piltover, that letter would not have led to a resolution because the letter doesn't address what their root conflict actually was: differing ideology. The s2 letter chops it up to basically being about a misunderstanding that would have been solved with simple forgiveness (as au-Silco says) but this couldn't be further from the truth. This scene and the letter try to make both their vision of Zaun and their falling out a result of personal disputes instead of their fundamental values. While we obviously didn't know the specifics of their falling out in s1, there was enough to get the sense that it was much more complicated than Vander "losing his head" because someone died, so he took his guilt out on Silco unjustly. Especially because this even IS what led to Silco becoming radicalized in such a specific way. This scene muddles the timeline and motivations behind the characters, not in a way that adds nuance or understanding, but in a way that's like "huh?!" cuz it blatantly misremembers parts of s1 and thus forces the audience to do parkour logic to justify it, when they could have had a flashback scene to Silco and Vander that didn't spark such careless confusion lol.
Honestly as much as I love the idea of Vander and Silco knowing the sisters parents, I feel like this information is something we should have been given or slightly teased at in season 1 so that the audience can be aware of a connection but the full scope of it can come from this scene
We knew that Vander knew who their mother was. In the very first scene in s1e1, when Vi and Powder are walking on the bridge, Vander nods towards the corpse of their mom. So he knew who they were looking for. Still, he didn't seem to have any kind of special relation with her or them at this point.
In the bridge scene in S1E1 the children look to Vander to explain, he gestures to their dead mother. This means Vander must already know that they're Felicia's kids. How close he was to them and Felicia isn't explained, but it is kinda teased that he has some sort of previous relationship.
@@LiveGame555 Yep. And Silco calls Vander his friend, they obviously were friends and had a falling out, which is explained in s2. This is a part of S2 that actually makes perfect sense.
Silco no, but I always assumed Vander knew them. They seem to recognize Vander at the bridge and he knows to show them their parents. So he has to know who they are and who their parents are.
in reality if Silco knew Vi and Jinx mom and knew they would be still alive he would try to recruit them on his side "your parents died fighting for the cause and now Vanders hides, stainning their legazy"
There’s obviously a lot of off screen we didn’t see so I doubt this changes as much as people think it does. Silco wasnt shone to be present at the bridge when all the rebels got slaughtered. Whatever split them happened before her death.
I always thought it was pretty clear that the girls were already familiar with Vander. Vi looks scared and shuffles Powder behind her when he first approaches, but when he gets close enough to be clearly seen she takes a step towards him and then starts looking around for her parents, then turns to him to ask where they are, before he nods in the direction of their bodies.
Vander must have known Felicia in the first scene, or else he couldn't have nodded towards her when Vi made her asking face. He wouldn't have known that Felicia was their mother. Also, it seemed that Vander knew everybody, anyway. Huck and everybody in the last drop in the first scene after the first title sequence. That may be years after the bridge scene, but in the bridge scene, as Vander himself states, he "led them over the bridge", so he already was "the hound of the underground" then, everybody knew him, he knew everybody and enough people were following him including Felicia. Silco saying "little girl" to Powder may be a little weird, but that's kind of it.
I mean, it's clear that Vander in S1 knew Vi and Powder's parents, based on him nodding to their dead bodies on the bridge to Vi, so that part makes sense. You can say he was on the hook, as he obviously cared about Vi and Powder's mom, based on the letter he wrote to Silco. Regarding Silco himself, you can chalk it up to him becoming more ruthless and his "do whatever it takes" mentality to gain power. When Silco started becoming more extreme in his actions, he and Felicia probably had a falling out, similar to him and Benzo having a falling out based on their dialogue (S1 Episode 3). This is why Silco is willing to kill the kids (aka Vi and Powder) of a former friend, he "will do anything" to achieve his goal (the independence of Zaun). As Silco has shown, he clearly doesn't have an issue with using the Undercity children in his Shimmer factories, and potentially killing kids (aka Marcus's daughter and Renni's son), in order to get what he wants.
The letter is even more ridiculous in terms of its “ consequences “ or potential consequences. S2 is a disaster and in order to make sense of it you have to assume and stretch so much .
@@Constantine_James I'm not quite sure what you mean, lol. What negative "consequences" would the letter have led to? Would the consequences have been more negative than what actually happened when Silco didn't read the letter (Silco killing Grayson, killing Benzo, capturing Vander, taking over the Undercity and flooding it with Shimmer, etc.)? In my opinion, S2 is a masterpiece. I will say assumptions need to be made from the subtext provided, similar to S1, but in terms of the context of what's actually presented on screen, all the character motivations make sense. At least to me, lol. Feel free to disagree. ^_^
@@madpostman Just because people loved Silco, and his (twisted relationship with Jinx) they cannot fathom that he would actually kill Felicia's kids. Like don't get me wrong Silco was a fascinating villain, but he was a villain. I agree with you and all the things you said are not a stretching anything....
There is a difference between Vander knowing the parents of Vi and Powder and him being their Godfather. Vander was the de facto leader of the underground, ofc he would know a lot of people there. This doesn't change anything that was said in the video
Couldn't have put it better. The show uses principle show don't tell a lot. Sometimes you need to figure out things on your own because the show doesn't tell you everything but you never have to make information out of thin air to work. You always have something from which you can base your argument of. I think Vander and Silco interactions with the sistersr in S1 are completely valid. Even more so after S2.
I think it's pretty obvious why Silco acted the way he did? Arcane's writing has always included characters with conflicting desires / motives, and how that causes them conflict. This is especially true for Silco, it's basically his entire character arc over the course of season 1. It's pretty heavily implied that Silco is emotionally decimated after Vander's betrayal, and that is what leads him to develop his mindset of sacrifice, purging weakness, and leaving the past behind for the cause. He is already willing to abandon Vander, so clearly during act 1 season 1 he's down to kill previous loved ones if it's to prove his beliefs correct and work towards the future of Zaun. When you say "why would he try to kill vi when he cared about their parents and their sacrifice" falls short because it only looks at a singular snapshot of the character's development, way in the past before the actual events that supposedly "go against his character". Getting rid of them is the perfect cover story to the undercity: Vander ran away with Vi to escape the enforcers searching for her. He *literally says* this is his reasoning for involving the kids, because ultimately sacrificing them is what Zaun needs (according to him, at the time). It's not that it doesn't make sense, it's that his motivation has completely consistent nuance LMAO.
Never thought about this, I always saw Act 1 Season 2 to be the most glaring part of season 2 with how all it did was retread already established ground for 3 episodes.. but the more I look into it seems like all of season 2 has writing issues.
I kinda had no grudge against it while watching. But in the end after a whole month of analysing Arcane as a whole these scenes make me want to throw up whenever I hear characters vocalize these words 💀 I mean how is it possible it is so bad? Chris Link and Amanda are the people who (I'm doubting that now) took part in writing Season 1. How is it possible that the same people who had been working on S1 with amazing dialogues fucked it all up so badly?
@ and that’s what I’m saying is ignorant. Silco didn’t care about anyone until he saw himself in Powder and groomed her to be Jinx. Maybe he cared for the mother, but the trauma of her death shot him and Vander in opposite directions. Kind of like Isha was for Jinx after Vander’s death? OMG it’s almost like Jinx and Vi are mirroring the past and that’s the entire message of Arcane????
@@celestialthearch8535 sorry, that was condescending. I get frustrated sometimes. It drives me nuts that there are so many people that don’t understand what are to me obvious messages, especially in such a masterpiece as Arcane.
You are 100% correct, i can understand loving a show despite it being filled with plotholes, but at least embrace the stupidity. The flashback didnt make any sense Silco plotwise, i dont even know why they put him there, he doesnt really say anything.
God, thank you so much. I went so feral about how much I hate what this scene says about Vander and Silco. Turning their already-established, complex, interesting character arcs (and even their general dream of an independent Zaun!) into "we gotta do it fer Felicia" was such an insult.
In the bridge Vander gives a head nod showing them Where their parents are at which signifies be knows who their parents are and them to have such information. I totally missed this in my first watch but it unfortunately makes the flashback in season 2 make sense
Changing the Writing staff is a major red flag when it comes to a good TV show. Why did they get rid of the staff if they had a 250 million dollar budget? Something does not add up
The writers for S2 also worked on S1. The staff was reduced (likely due to covid restrictions still in effect when the writing happened), and 1 of the lead writers could not return due to other projects. To me it feels like they had written season 2 of a trilogy, and then got word that the trilogy was being reduced to 2 seasons (not hard to beleive, 3 episode per arc, 3 arcs per season, 3 seasons makes sense) so they crammed as much as they could and had of season three also into season 2. There is just too much all at once to explore to do it coherently. Everything feels so rushed.
I think there was some foreshorting in season 1's opening scene that linked Vander to vi's family. You can see how vi's eyes lit up with a little smile when she saw vander,like she knew him and could trust him. Also, in one music video in season 2,it seemed like Patricia left vander to babysit vi and jinx before shit went down.But I agree with you,this SUPPOSEDLY SWEET SCENE cheaper greater ones . Removing the og writers was a terrible mistake
So, just a few points that I think got missed about this scene. First, if Vander and Silco led a revolution, it would make sense that they knew the members of that movement. These people would be heavily invested in them and their cause. So them knowing Felicia should come as no surprise. Felicia puts them "on the hook" to create their dream of Zaun, to create a better future for her kid(s). Vander abandons this, choosing safety, but at the cost of a miserable future for the undercity. Silco abandons this twice. First to further his own position in the underground and set himself up as a drug lord, making his own version of Piltover in the underground while pretending to be fighting for the cause. The second time, he does actually choose Jinx over his old dream. But thats a other topic. Vander knew the kids in S1 E1 opening. And they knew him too. When he sees Vi and Powder on the bridge, they were frightened by the violence they just witnessed, not by Vander. As soon as Vi recognizes him, she asks him non-verbally, with just a look, where her parents were. He knows who she is and where her parents are (dead on the ground) but you can see the look in his face as to what this means to the kids. They did end up in his arms holding him as he walked away. It was always evident to me that he knew them. Silco does not seem to give any respect for the children of fallen comrads. He would have likely also known that all of Vanders "children" were orphans from HIS revellion. Didn't stop him at all. We don't know that he was as close to Felicia as Vander was. Vander looked a lot closer in the flashback and a lot more involved. We also know her death affected him more. Silco did at least know Powder well enough to know she was Vi's sister in S1 E3. He didn't even see her with the group in the room or on the windowsill. Yet when he runs into her in the ally, he asks where her sister is.
Like most plot points in s2, it was meant to be cute/emotional/emotion inducing, but there was little logic or sense behind it, and it made everything retroactively worse.
I think it comes down to how their mom died. Its left in such a grey area that I can see Silco feeling betrayed by Felicia and the world. Thats the way I choose to rationalize his behavior toward the kids. Its not totally broken but it doesn't work like I think they wanted it to. Say Vander drowns Silco and then gets Felicia killed. He has his reborn moment and could view the whole family and his past life in a whole new light? Idk.
@@Constantine_JamesNo, it's never implied this happened. You want to see stupid problems to excuse your biased opinion against everything in the show. You watched some critic ripping it apart and without any critical thought you jumped one the dogpile. Mob psychology, online edition. Pathetic.
1:40 Interesting take, but it seems a bit off. You're suggesting that Vander never mentioned being friends with Vi and Powder's mother, yet in Season 2, Episode 6, during the Remember Me scene, we clearly see Vander playing with Vi before the events of the pilot. Why would he need to randomly state that he was friends with their mother when it’s evident they already knew? 2:13 You’re misinterpreting Silco’s character. His entire arc revolves around his willingness to "do anything to achieve power." He explicitly states this, and his actions consistently align with that philosophy throughout the series. Silco understands the importance of knowing when to kill and when it isn't necessary-it's encapsulated in the title, "The Base Violence Necessary for Change". His ruthless nature and disregard for his past define his character development; he’s willing to destroy anyone or anything standing in his way. When you compare past ideologies with concurrent ones, you're oversimplifying his motivations. Your argument here doesn’t offer much substance-it essentially boils down to, "Really? Nuh-uh!" without further elaboration. 2:37 Silco has no reason to have met Powder and Vi. He’s primarily depicted as a bar companion, not someone who would visit or babysit children like Vander. It’s unlikely their mother would have taken them to such an adult and potentially dangerous place, even back then. Even if Silco did see them (which seems doubtful, considering he specifically refers to them as “Vander’s children”), he never explicitly states that he doesn’t know who they are. Ultimately, it doesn’t matter-it all aligns with his character arc, no matter how you interpret it. 3:00 Briefly addressing this: Silco could simply be shocked because he tried to kill her family. Maybe Vander told these kids plenty of stories about how evil he was (assuming Silco even knows them). Or he might just be stunned that Powder hugged him-it doesn’t have to be as deep as you’re making it out to be. Also, it's entirely possible, if he even did meet them, that he only met Vi and not Powder, considering Powder wasn't born till many years later which would have been AFTER the drowning scene, so he would no longer be friends with Vander or the mother. Like are you doing any thinking at all? Honestly, there are far bigger issues with Arcane that you could have focused on. These points feel weak and, frankly, among the least relevant-if they’re relevant at all.
Well said. 👏 In my opinion, I think it makes sense that Silco probably left the scene not long after Vi was born to begin building what would later become his enterprise of the Underworld, where contact between him and Felicia probably stopped, then reemerging around the time of the flashback in S1 E1 for the riot scene, then disappearing again after Felicia's death and Vander's betrayal. He most likely knew who Vi was, but that didn't matter to him because A) She'd just beaten the hell out of a bunch of his hired goons and was clearly a threat to the operation, and B) as you said, it's part of his identity that he'd stop at nothing to achieve power. It's pretty much zero chance that there was any emotional connection between Silco and Felicia's kids. Powder, obviously, he'd never met before E3. He likely took her in because of multiple reasons- A) manipulating her into a tool he could later use, B) he felt pity for her, or C) perhaps the fact that he knew she was Felicia's daughter (despite never having met) and felt a paternal instinct manifest that hadn't existed prior. Probably all three. It was a multi-faceted decision made in a split second that evolved into a deeply paternal (twisted, but paternal) relationship. This is obviously more or less just my personal head-canon, but it's what makes sense to me. And you're certainly right, there's FAR bigger issues with S2 than this one (*cough* useless cupcake eating scene *cough*). I'd never even considered this aspect of the storyline a problem until clicking on this video.
@@calebwaldron8600 Now this makes more sense. The problem with the original poster of this video is he doesn't really understand what he's saying. Unlike other critics who offer detail and pinpoint specifics that either don't mesh well or contradict the overarching storyline or character development, this guy's entire video was "Nuh uh", "I don't think so", "I find it ridiculous that" without adding any substance whatsoever. He's jumping on the Arcane critique train with little media literacy.
Hold on, I really like this comment, but there's a mistake. Silco was at the bridge fight in episode S1E1. We see this, I believe, through S2 Vander when he hears Silco say "Blisters and Bedrock" before slashing at the vision of Silco. There's a very, very short scene that shows Silco at the bridge throwing a Molotov. It is implied that Silco threw the Molotov at the enforcer and started the bridge fight, indirectly killing Felicia. Maybe even SIlco convinced Felicia to come to the bridge, considering she implies in Blister and Bedrock that she can't be a mother and an active member of the independence movement at the same time, but that's pure speculation. Silco is also depicted as a fellow miner to Vander, Felicia and Connel, so he's more than just a bar companion, but he isn't depicted in the family setting like Vander is. Another mistake is that Powder was born before the drowning scene. Silco is with Felicia and Vander on the bridge, where Felicia dies. Powder is depicted in Vander's memory with Felicia, Connel, Vi, and him. It's impossible, twice over, for the Powder to be born after the drowning scene. Silco says "Where is your sister?" to Powder in S1E3, so he does know who they are and that they're sisters. Silco also says to Vi in S1E6 "I thought you were the prize of your secondhand family," implying he also knew this for a while before that event. He could have gained that knowledge through information gathering, it's not secret information, but it makes more sense that he knows from being familiar with them and Felicia as a family. Silco clearly intended to kill Vander to seize control of Zaun and its way forward, with the intention of killing his children as well so as not to make Vander their martyr. Additionally, killing Vander and his children all together allows him to spread the story he claims to want to in S1E3 that Vander and his children fled the city. This story helps Silco seize power and motivate Zaun in several ways. Silco didn't kill the beloved Vander, but instead has to take up the fight in his stead as his old friend and compatriot. Vander, beloved in Zaun, is seemingly forced to flee Zaun due to the Piltovan enforcers searching for his children. Silco's whole philosophy post-drowning is "power comes to those who are willing to do anything to achieve it." He has already given up his morals and directly claims he's willing to do anything to achieve power. Not only is it not out of character for him to betray his promise and kill the children, it is in direct alignment with his own philosophy he says out loud for the audience to hear. Powder hugging him is unexpected because the rest the children were all just working to stop him. You could even interpret that he believes she must've been the one behind the explosion since he knew where all the other kids were, and that he knew that explosion was intended for Deckard. Also, this is probably the first time Silco has experienced any positive touch from another person since the bridge fight, so he has a lot of reasons to react shocked. His most recent intimate human interactions were the last two times Vander tried to strangle him to death. Silco does state directly and explicitly in S1 that his current philosophy of power and such was developed after Vander tried to drown him. So it doesn't make sense for him to act that way before that event happens. Vander and Silco both clearly had a violent philosophy on how to improve Zaun before the bridge incident, it's only after that that Silco and Vander adopt their new philosophies. I definitely think Arcane S2 is still a masterpiece. No story is ever going to be perfect, but all of Arcane is excellent.
Blisters and Bedrock shows/explains the drowning scene being closely after the Bridge Revolution scene. Vander says "When she died, I lost my head". Also, it seems that Silco escalated the violence on that day which led to Felicia dying. (there are some very fast and short cutscenes in Blisters and Bedrock, and I had some video explaining this to me, allegedly Christian Linke explained that in an interview, somewhere). So, as Powder already was born in the very first scene, and Silco's drowning by Vander's hand is supposed to be after that.
@@ArguablyRight That's almost all most of the critics do. I mostly had questions because I just didn't get things, because some things are just so fast or only like 3 words in dialogue. Like Vi, after meeting Cait in S2E6 and making a plan with her, is going back to Jinx as says "Vander's in trouble. I have a plan, you're not going to like it". But we only hear Vi say that, while the picture is already showing Jinx helping Cait. Which I didn't get. In S2E8 Cait complains to Vi about Jinx being there because Vi wouldn't trust Cait. I couldn't make sense of Cait's complaint or why Jinx was helping her (and then Cait being surprised Jinx was even there), but the few words "Vander's in trouble, I have a plan, you're not gonna like it" made sense of it all. And Vi couldn't have said them to Cait, because that wouldn't have made any sense. So. I learned: If I think something is off: I probably missed something. And as of yet, I almost always found what I missed, eventually.
Not Silco, but I always assumed Vander knew Vi and Powder. They seem to recognize Vander at the bridge and he knows to show them their parents. So he has to know who they are and who their parents are.
I think some haters of S2 are copying so hard, if u critique the show do it right PLEASE, because there are flaws in this second season even tho i love it with all my heart. First I have to say opinions are subjective u can hate the show "just because", there´s a lot left to interpretation which is something that I love in this show that don´t take us for fools and even if we are wrong in something that is objective everyone can make mistakes, so no problems with that. So in my opinion these are the mistakes on the video: 1-Visual interpretation: In the opening scene it´s clear that at least they know each other because Vi approached him despite the violence scene Vander was making, if you see a man beating to death you run, but Vi stayed because he recognised him, and then Vander signals Vi where her parents are, so don´t make up things pls. 2-Misinterpretation of Silco and Vander: The Key moment was the bridge, for Vander: Vi´s parents dying made him realise war it´s not the way and he is not prepared to fight if there´s the chance of losing his loved ones, it make him blame himself but above all to Silco for pushing too far the revolution at the bridge which cause their confrontation later at the river for Felicia´s death and the future of Zaun, Vander probably knew Silco wouldn´t stop keep pushing the confrontation after Felicia´s death and that would end up on the undercity being massacred. For Silco: I´m sure that he charges a lot of guilt because of Felicia´s death but he reacted differently than Vander, all that guilt and losing her make him redirect and increase all his blame/hate towards Piltover, then the confrontation with Vander happened and we know how that went, Silco was reborn with all his ideals and his thoughts clearer than ever, just like Viktor did after Jayce Shot him. And as he said he would stop at nothing, until he gets the respect he wants from the topside. "Killing" and transforming Vander into a monster? Kill the kids of Felicia? Dont care if taking them out of the picture will make his plan to take the undercity´s control. The situation regarding Silco, Vi and Powder its more open up to interpretation: you could say that he didnt know Powder was Felicia´s kid or just that he didnt remember them, but I lean more towards that he simply didn´t care after being "reborn" in the river, he just had one objecitve in his life and that´s it. So for me, the episode 3 moment with Powder now is even better, because Silco was so far gone that he didn´t care about killing her dear late friend´s child. Or so we thought, because Powder, just a child that wanted to prove herself worthy to her sister and, with an inmense pain and guilt was able to ignite a spark of empathy and humanity in a man that thought that nothing ever again was going to stop him from achieving his dream of the nation of Zaun, just like Viktor thought that no one was going to stop him of the glorious evolution, Jayce and Powder with their respective hugs brought back the humanity of Viktor and Silco. 3-Flasback s2 ep5: Look at Silco whenever Felicia is talking about the shit down here or about Zaun, they can say a lot about his character traits early on, he doesn´t even toast for Felicia´s child, he toasts for Zaun. And in the video i think i heared that they promised they would take care of them, the promise they "technically" made is that they will make the undercity a healthy comunity, for them, yes. But not the same, and we see how both Vander and Silco have different ideals. I think that´s all. PD: Sorry if I´ve seem rude at the beginning apoligises early on.
I completely agree with your interpretaton of the opening scene of s1e1. However, Silco states in s1e3, that Vander trying to murder him specifically happened an amount of time before Vander stopped his rebellion. So It would seem like Vander trying to kill Silco happened some time before the bridge scene.
This is how I interpreted the story as well. Silco cared for Jinx as long as she did what was expected from her not because of the promise they made to their mother. There was empathy from him but not for the right reasons. Silco saw himself in Powder, someone he can relate to. Also he was asking her in E03 "Where is your sister?" It clearly implies he knows who they are but doesn't care about their well being at all thats why he was ready to kill them as he was ready to kill Vander.
@@Frir10 I don´t remember Silco saying that honestly. And I love that scene, check it out because I dont think that he specifically states that the bridge incident happened before, he just says that he kept his respect until he made peace with them and that´s not what you are saying at all.
@@Msmk-im6sq True! so then the theories "he didn´t remember" or he didn´t know about Powder are a little less valid, thanks for remembering/remind me that sentence. It made more sense for me that Silco knew as I said in my interpretation.
@@Frir10 There's a Vander/Warwick memory scene that shows that Silco threw a Molotov at an enforcer at the bridge incident which caused the event to escalate to violence. Silco is still allied with Vander and Felicia in the opening scene of S1E1. Vander blames Silco for indirectly killing Felicia by escalating the situation to violence. Vander recognizes later that he fed into the violence and enabled the situation pretty much just as much as Silco did by organizing everything and being involved. That's why he later writes the letter and changes his ways. He realizes that the problem was using violence as a solution to their problem, not just Silco's tactless use of it. Hence why he hangs up the gloves, he believes the problem is using violence itself whenever not completely necessary.
Bro is conveniently ignoring the fact that S1 doesn't show the detailed reasons for Vander trying to murder Silco. It would be a strange assumption to make that Vander's motivation wouldn't have been set in place in the first season's writing already. I cannot really think about a better motivation than losing a good friend (indirectly) through Silco's decisions, considering Silco was another good friend.
But Silco stated, that even after Vander tried to kill him, he still respected Vander, because he was still fighting for the cause. But we are shown, that Vander stopped fighting for the cause the moment he adopted Vi and Powder, which happened moments after their mom was slain. So what is the timeline here? 1) Vander tries to murder Silco. 2) Vander leads a rebellion against Piltover, in which Felicia dies. 3) Vander lays down his gauntlets, adopts Vi and Powder, and immediately ends the fighting. That is how it was laid out by Silco anyway.
@@Frir10 I know I responded to you on another post, but for other readers, I'm gonna say it again. There's a Vander/Warwick memory scene where Silco is throwing a Molotov at the bridge scene, escalating the situation to violence. This implies they're still allied and that the Vander drowning Silco scene happens after the bridge scene, and is motivated by Silco's actions and the outcome of the bridge scene. Otherwise, it seems like Vander just tries to kill him for no reason.
@@LiveGame555 I must have missed that scene. But that would still feel like retconning to me. As in s2 retconned it so that Vander, Silco and Felicia were all friends until the bridge scene. In s1e3, Silco says to Vander: "No, you still don't understand. Can you imagine what it's like. When your blood mixes with the filth and the river toxins eat through your nerves. Oh I hated you for what you'd done. But as time passed, so did my hate. And I was left with an understanding. The only way to defeat a superior enemy is to stop at nothing. To become what they fear. I hated you, but you kept my respect. Until you made peace with them. Played lapdog after everything we'd suffered."
While you make valid points, I think you also ignore many. Vander and Silco do know the sisters, we know it from season 1 (In the opening scene, Vander nods towards their mom's body). In episode 5, Silco tells Vi 'I thought you were the prize of your family'. If you follow closely the fight in episode 3, you see that Silco is testing Vi (not throwing Sevika at her), probably thinking of employing her in the future. Plus obviously we get the Silco/Vander scenes in ep 3(opening flashback + all along the ep), where he calls Vander his friend etc. Then in season 2 we see that Silco was the one to start stirring shit up on the bridge which cause all the death from the s1 opening. "Why would Silco be willing to kill Vi?" Same reason he's willing to kill Vander: near death experience and fear of resentment. "Why would Silco act like this with Powder?" To "bring her in". Nothing special about that scene whether he knows her or not. He intended to get Vi, he ends up with Powder, he intends to make the most of it.
A lot of assumptions made here. This is like taking a colouring book, guessing which colours to use, and then blaming the book when it doesn't make sense.
You're right about everything, this flashback doesn't work at all and it's cringe. But the opening of season 1 does show that Vander knows who Vi and Powder's parents are; when he sees Vi he nods his head over to their bodies.
To Silco, Vander's "kids" were part of Vander's plan for Zaun, not his. Maybe he used to feel responsible for them, but its clear that was long past. Just because he knew of the sisters didn't mean he knows them. We hear Silco mention in season 1, "Vander is in trouble" after he learns about the kids being responsible for the Piltover job. He clearly knows about the kids. He also talks to Vi before he fight in season 1 episode 3, mentioning her as Vander's prodigy.
Can someone please send link or post where it's said they cut writing staff? I can't find it anywhere and I presonally don't belive it. I think Season 2 was incredible. Yes, it had faster pacing and some things might need more time to develop but the writing guality and principle of show, don't tell work beautifully.
No, it's brilliant! Now we know why Vander and Silko quarreled - because of the death of the sisters' parents in that first scene. The genius is that, judging by the flashbacks of the fight from the first season, first thing they decided to get younger, and Vander also decided to shave.
I think it’s alright if Vander is somewhat familiar with Violet and Powder, as he is a figurehead of Zaun and thus would probably know most of the people in the lanes (Vi does seem to somewhat know him during the scene where Vander takes her in). But being good friends with Felicia and having that be his motivation to adopt Vi/Powder? Yeah that cheapens the scene a lot. Same with Silco.
Alot of people playing defence for this in the comments seem to be ignoring the fact that it's a blatant retcon BECAUSE THE WRITERS DIDNT CARE ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN SEASON1 They had a story they wanted to tell in season2 by any means necessary, even if they were going to step on their own writing Just because you can explain it doesn't mean it was planned nor necessarily good.
Honestly upon my first watch when this episode aired I had no grudge towards it. In fact I was somewhat emotionally invested in all this Warwick - sisters relationships and was more focused on these characters present. However the disappointment which the 3rd arc is made me start to ask questions towards everything beforehand. And the deeper I went into it the more flaws of this Season overall started to emerge. This scene in particular and Vander/Silco backstory being rewritten like that (since there's no way they originally intended it just like that) made completely no sense at all if closely considered. And it pisses me off since the only reason they brough it in is to turn a cheap emotional bait on viewers (which sadly worked on many). However in the grand scheme of things it all doesn't make any sense, ESPECIALLY with Silco's character. There's no way they would make me belive that Silco will be ready to kill his old dead friend girls with what was shown on the screen. And that's exactly what he's trying to do in Season 1! If he originally really was so close to Felicia then he would try to talk some sense into Vi and Powder. Especially since Vi sometimes vocalized similar ideas with Silco's (that being them both desiring some respect from Piltover). I'm incredibly pissed off by how they handeled that. They basically ruined already established storyline for cheap emotional bait and nothing more, since we never come back to this new established background ever again. They never explain why Silco is all over the sudden is ready to literally kill these girls, how exactly did he come to this conclusion. I mean what must happen to a man for him wanting to kill kids of their friends? It's definetly not Vander since they're not Vander's kids. But what Felicia could even possibly do what would make Silco so coldblooded in ordering to get disposed of them like they're some random street thugs? That's just ridiculous
What really piss me of about Vander in season 1 and is increased due to the flashbacks in season 2 is the favoritism that Vander has towards Vi in none of the flashbacks we see any moment when he connects or spend any time with Powder, Milo or Claggor we don't even see how he came to adopt the last two heck we don't even see any image of Vander childhood or anything in season 1 he raised and care Vi and expect her to raise the other three
Im so so so glad that people are waking up and looking past the hype. Alot of things jsut dont make sense, you can have a shitty season but don't go changing Season 1 through it. Also quick note: silco most important trait is loyalty, so him betraying her promise would break his character 😂
Silcos' most important trait is that he'll do anything for power, loyalty is his next most important trait. These two important things to him coming into conflict within himself is part of the good writing. Also, he's a villain, and most villains are hypocrites. Most people are honestly hypocrites, let alone villains.
Even if they did cut writers , did the remaining were somewhat talented or decent writers ? Even by not respecting what S1 was about why so many plotholes , rushed and incoherent storylines ?
my 2 cents in this matter: So basically, Silco's character in relation with other people completely flipped when he was coldly betrayed by Vander, and Vander insinuated in the letter that he blamed Silco for Felicia and Spenser's deaths. Silco coped through that murder attempt and betrayal from the person he trusted the most by branding him, Violet, Powder as traitors to the cause. We know Silco's actions were what tipped the riot at the bridge to a massacre, and we know that Vander was the one who closely valued Powder and Vi, which implies two things: 1. Silco was more attached to the revolution 2. Vander was more attached to the family Silco likely never had that as close of an attachment to Felicia's family, and thus was naturally colder to Violet and Powder when they meet again at the abandoned warehouse. It was only when Powder mirrored Silco's trauma that he remembered his humanity, that he finally began to see and slowly value family like how Vander did.
Seeing all those RUclips reaction channels sob and cry at this scene makes me laugh bc it's so stupid and manipultive. It only works if you turn your brain off
Did you just black out certain information/scenes while watching, especially S1? Some of you desperately need a thorough rewatch if you’re misunderstanding THIS badly. The blisters & bedrock scene changes fundamentally nothing of what’s already established in S1. How many times does it have to be beaten into the audience’s head that the Silco we see in the present (selfish, morally corrupt, power hungry, apathetic to the average Zaunite’s plight if it meant furthering the “liberation” of Zaun) is an entirely changed man? Paraphrasing Silco’s lines: “Power comes to those willing to do anything to take it.” “I was reborn in that river.” This is not the same Silco as the one who bantered, drank, and lent moral support to Felicia. Whatever oath, promise, or affections he held in the past died in the river where he almost drowned.
Yeah, it makes no sense. I actually think the only good character storyline is the "love"triangel between Mel, Jayce and Victor. Its starts with Jayce/Vik but then Mel tries to "steal" him by using him as her way to more political power. But every time Jayce comes back to Viktor and science. There were several transitions were Mel get replaced by Viktor. The final was when S2 Jayce see Mel getting literally burned away in the fire. He left the council and also broke up with her (which was no surprise considering their relationship was built in politics) and he choose Viktor and "died" with him. Jayce having to choose between them and politics and sciene was really well done. It was set up from the beginning and had a great finale.
First and biggest mistake, Christian told that they delivered all the script/history since the first part, something riot ask him to do, and yeah, i believe him, thats why the 5 seasons missunderstanding happend (plot-money-green light). Thats why at the end the only ones left where Alex and Chris basically, to sharpen what Amanda and the rest of her team/other contractors already finished.
Like many others I realy like Arcane. But I think its funny how so many people try to protect the show against any critique. Because while Season two was still pretty great it was definitly flawed. Denying that is just closing your eyes in front of the truth. Videos like this one show how some things in season 2 just did not work out. In my opinion the hype for arcane realy became the shows biggest problem, resulting in people praising Arcane just because everyone else does, but without actually thinking about the show and making your own opinion. Often it seems like people feel personaly insulted when someone criticized something in arcane, resulting in them trying to bring an argument for why this detail is as perfekt as the rest of the show, even though there just is no good argument in these cases.
It's about 3:23 am right now, but. Back when I watched season one I was a diehard Arcane fan. Cried rivers to the show. Defended, Jayce, Loved Vi, Viktor, hyped for Singed and Warwick. All the cool stuff. But after watching season two I felt let down personally. It's not bad, but it feels like a different show compared to season one
This sounds like a you problem. Others have already explained how this scene makes sense. I can't force you though to like something you don't like. Season 2 isn't perfect, it has its flaws. But there is still a lot to love about it. And the stuff worth criticizing it over, I don't believe this is it. I'll leave it at that.
It seem that this is the problem whit the entretainment industry, New writers whant to write their story and only their story, still really good show.❤
1:20 The heck? Why "he doesn't know" them? What show did you watch? Rewatch, please, before making content. They ABSOLUTELY CLEARLY KNEW EACH OTHER on the bridge, she asks him where her parents are and he nods to the bodies. I will continue to watch, but for now that vid seems to be another "watched with wrong bodypart" type critique. Any type of discussion is better than none, but god, did Arcane challenge ppl's ability to focus... there are so many of those ppl "in dire need of a rewatch" out there.
and also, there was a scene with vander and vi on the bridge in season 1, episode 1 i think, where he mentioned her parents. i‘m pretty sure he has been open about his friendship to their parents!
I got a weird feeling about this scene even the first time I watched it because the 3 of them seemed far more intimate than just friends. And when Felicia said she was knocked up and said she can't keep living "In the moment", it gave me the impression that Vi and Powder were Vander and Silco's biological daughters respectively. Other than the fact that this would mean she cheated on her husband, it would mean that Vi and Powder weren't full sisters, were bastard children and Vander's morality and responsible nature is shattered. It just gave me this nasty feeling about the whole situation and the worst part about it is that I still get that impression when I rewatch the scene because everything about the way its written points to it being true. I know it probably isn't, but this scene was just weirdly written.
THEY CUT THEIR WRITING STAFF? oh dear...........................It's All Making Sense
@@toyosibee.mp3 they had 3 people by the end I’m not even kidding
So that's why it feels more like a really long, very well animated music video, instead of a fully fledged show... huh
@@luchirimoya yea I can try and find the clip but the head Writer for S1 said that for the first season they had a whole staff basically working a 9-5 on the script for a year . For S2 they had her , the co producer and 1-2 other people . Some of which weren’t the main force behind the script of S1 .
@@Constantine_James Have you seen the statements made by those writers? Christian's crashout, especially. It really reads like they didn't know what made season 1 so great and are upset with the fans for not liking it
@ yea the twitter war was insane .
Yes, there's nothing in S1 that indicates Silco knew sisters personally.
Powder jumps on Silco because she believes she was just abandoned by Vi. And Silco reacts this uncharacteristic way because sees himself in her - just like he was abandoned by Vander.
Moreover, Silco says to Vi in S1E6 "I've regretted we never had an opportunity to speak"
Nothing in the flashbacks indicates that he knew them well or at all ether. Felicia is pregnant with Vi, and they all work in the mines, but we only see Vander visiting the kids in his memories. Silco may not have been as close, and didn't look as engaged in the flashback. Her death also didn't seem to affect him as much as Vander ether.
@@TheExitStrategy In the flashback all 3 of them seem to be pretty close. So then, Silco is close with Vander, close with Felicia (she's comfortable enough to put them both on the hook for Blisters and Bedrock), knows that Felicia's older kid is named Violet as Vander suggested, but this never comes up during S1? Silco doesn't even use this in any way to his advantage during S1, if he seeks to undermine Vander? Vi being Felicia's daughter doesn't come up in S1E3?
A way simpler explanation is that this was a retcon to squeeze out an emotional moment.
@dmitrigherson5160 why or how would he bring it up? He likely knew the parents of Milo and Claggor too. Silco is a smooth talker, and a natural leader, you think he didn't have influence on the members of his revolution? He would have likely known most if not all of them.
@dmitrigherson5160 also in the flashback, Silco spends the first half engaged in his notes. He barely has any dialog, and certainly nothing noteworthy to contribute. Vande4 and Felisha, by contrast, seem intimately engaged (very intimately, if you notice the song they conveniently cut the lyrics to playing).
@@TheExitStrategy In the flashback, Felicia calls them 'bozos', and they joke about who's 'bozo 1' and who's 'bozo 2'. They are clearly close. Even if Silco is preoccupied with the notes, he's present.
No way "Vi is Felicia's daughter" wouldn't come up in S1E3, when Vi was about to fight Silco's goons. No way Vander wouldn't have brought it up. In an attempt to save Vi, at least. Also, (while I personally think it is a terrible idea to suggest Vander and SIlco would've reconciled over an apology letter) the way the letter is written - "When she died" - also clearly indicates both Vander and Silco know "who". There isn't even a name. They both clearly would know the person Vander mentions in the letter.
Look, some people were saying "this explains why Silco adopted Jinx!!" and I was simply confused. If Silco adopted Jinx because he knew their mom, wouldn't it have made more sense for him to try and get Vi too, since _she's_ the daughter that was referenced in this scene??? Instead...he tries to kill her😂😂
I don't think Silco adopted Jinx just because he knew her mother. When he saw Powder alone and crying with hate, he related with her on a personal level (there is an obvious parallelism between Vander and Silco, and jinx and vi)
He tried to kill both sisters tbh
A cute scene at the cost of the the overall Zaun story theme. I mean, vander takes in random kids, silco takes in a relatively random girl, jinx takes in a random girl, Ekko takes in random zaunites in need to his place. But nope he was on the hook.
Yes, exactly! The scene with Jinx and Silco was so powerful because there was NOTHING in common between them, they were complete strangers to eachother. THE ONLY THING that they shared together and that made Silco reconsider probably killing this girl is that she had been left betrayed by her sister, so as him
They were "on the hook" to make Zaun a reality. That was what she asked for, for a better FUTURE for her kids. Both failed to deliver that. Vender chose the safety of the enemy you know, and silco chose self-serving ambition at the cost of his dream (drug lord ambitions, before Jayce practically dropped the Nation of Zaun in his lap).
E7 shows the possible future they could have had, even possibly had the two men actually continued to work together.
I really don't like how this scene makes Silco and Vander's dream of Zaun feel more directly motivated by a promise to a friend, then on their vision for a better future. It's more interesting if they're motivated by ideology and not a personal promise. I think it makes sense that they would have had mutual friends that would have contributed to their motivation for Zaun, but this scene just goes too far to have Felicia say they gotta "do it for her".
The letter is even worse though, because it makes it seem like Vander and Silco's falling out happened just because Felicia died (cuz Vander "lost his head") AND that if Silco had just found this really poorly written apology then everything would have been fixed. But the actual reason for their dispute in ep3 is because of their opposing ideologies about how to deal with Piltover, that letter would not have led to a resolution because the letter doesn't address what their root conflict actually was: differing ideology. The s2 letter chops it up to basically being about a misunderstanding that would have been solved with simple forgiveness (as au-Silco says) but this couldn't be further from the truth. This scene and the letter try to make both their vision of Zaun and their falling out a result of personal disputes instead of their fundamental values. While we obviously didn't know the specifics of their falling out in s1, there was enough to get the sense that it was much more complicated than Vander "losing his head" because someone died, so he took his guilt out on Silco unjustly. Especially because this even IS what led to Silco becoming radicalized in such a specific way. This scene muddles the timeline and motivations behind the characters, not in a way that adds nuance or understanding, but in a way that's like "huh?!" cuz it blatantly misremembers parts of s1 and thus forces the audience to do parkour logic to justify it, when they could have had a flashback scene to Silco and Vander that didn't spark such careless confusion lol.
That scene doesnt say that they didnt want to do it in the first place, but it might have pushed them a bit more
Honestly as much as I love the idea of Vander and Silco knowing the sisters parents, I feel like this information is something we should have been given or slightly teased at in season 1 so that the audience can be aware of a connection but the full scope of it can come from this scene
We knew that Vander knew who their mother was. In the very first scene in s1e1, when Vi and Powder are walking on the bridge, Vander nods towards the corpse of their mom. So he knew who they were looking for. Still, he didn't seem to have any kind of special relation with her or them at this point.
In the bridge scene in S1E1 the children look to Vander to explain, he gestures to their dead mother. This means Vander must already know that they're Felicia's kids. How close he was to them and Felicia isn't explained, but it is kinda teased that he has some sort of previous relationship.
@@LiveGame555 Yep. And Silco calls Vander his friend, they obviously were friends and had a falling out, which is explained in s2. This is a part of S2 that actually makes perfect sense.
Silco no, but I always assumed Vander knew them. They seem to recognize Vander at the bridge and he knows to show them their parents. So he has to know who they are and who their parents are.
in reality if Silco knew Vi and Jinx mom and knew they would be still alive he would try to recruit them on his side "your parents died fighting for the cause and now Vanders hides, stainning their legazy"
There’s obviously a lot of off screen we didn’t see so I doubt this changes as much as people think it does. Silco wasnt shone to be present at the bridge when all the rebels got slaughtered. Whatever split them happened before her death.
I always thought it was pretty clear that the girls were already familiar with Vander. Vi looks scared and shuffles Powder behind her when he first approaches, but when he gets close enough to be clearly seen she takes a step towards him and then starts looking around for her parents, then turns to him to ask where they are, before he nods in the direction of their bodies.
It's not clear because it wasn't the plan lol
this it’s like people are completely oblivious to non verbal communication smh
Vander must have known Felicia in the first scene, or else he couldn't have nodded towards her when Vi made her asking face. He wouldn't have known that Felicia was their mother.
Also, it seemed that Vander knew everybody, anyway. Huck and everybody in the last drop in the first scene after the first title sequence.
That may be years after the bridge scene, but in the bridge scene, as Vander himself states, he "led them over the bridge", so he already was "the hound of the underground" then, everybody knew him, he knew everybody and enough people were following him including Felicia.
Silco saying "little girl" to Powder may be a little weird, but that's kind of it.
No.
I mean, it's clear that Vander in S1 knew Vi and Powder's parents, based on him nodding to their dead bodies on the bridge to Vi, so that part makes sense. You can say he was on the hook, as he obviously cared about Vi and Powder's mom, based on the letter he wrote to Silco.
Regarding Silco himself, you can chalk it up to him becoming more ruthless and his "do whatever it takes" mentality to gain power. When Silco started becoming more extreme in his actions, he and Felicia probably had a falling out, similar to him and Benzo having a falling out based on their dialogue (S1 Episode 3). This is why Silco is willing to kill the kids (aka Vi and Powder) of a former friend, he "will do anything" to achieve his goal (the independence of Zaun).
As Silco has shown, he clearly doesn't have an issue with using the Undercity children in his Shimmer factories, and potentially killing kids (aka Marcus's daughter and Renni's son), in order to get what he wants.
The letter is even more ridiculous in terms of its “ consequences “ or potential consequences. S2 is a disaster and in order to make sense of it you have to assume and stretch so much .
@@Constantine_James I'm not quite sure what you mean, lol. What negative "consequences" would the letter have led to? Would the consequences have been more negative than what actually happened when Silco didn't read the letter (Silco killing Grayson, killing Benzo, capturing Vander, taking over the Undercity and flooding it with Shimmer, etc.)?
In my opinion, S2 is a masterpiece. I will say assumptions need to be made from the subtext provided, similar to S1, but in terms of the context of what's actually presented on screen, all the character motivations make sense. At least to me, lol. Feel free to disagree. ^_^
@@madpostman Just because people loved Silco, and his (twisted relationship with Jinx) they cannot fathom that he would actually kill Felicia's kids. Like don't get me wrong Silco was a fascinating villain, but he was a villain. I agree with you and all the things you said are not a stretching anything....
There is a difference between Vander knowing the parents of Vi and Powder and him being their Godfather. Vander was the de facto leader of the underground, ofc he would know a lot of people there. This doesn't change anything that was said in the video
Couldn't have put it better. The show uses principle show don't tell a lot. Sometimes you need to figure out things on your own because the show doesn't tell you everything but you never have to make information out of thin air to work. You always have something from which you can base your argument of. I think Vander and Silco interactions with the sistersr in S1 are completely valid. Even more so after S2.
I think it's pretty obvious why Silco acted the way he did? Arcane's writing has always included characters with conflicting desires / motives, and how that causes them conflict. This is especially true for Silco, it's basically his entire character arc over the course of season 1. It's pretty heavily implied that Silco is emotionally decimated after Vander's betrayal, and that is what leads him to develop his mindset of sacrifice, purging weakness, and leaving the past behind for the cause. He is already willing to abandon Vander, so clearly during act 1 season 1 he's down to kill previous loved ones if it's to prove his beliefs correct and work towards the future of Zaun. When you say "why would he try to kill vi when he cared about their parents and their sacrifice" falls short because it only looks at a singular snapshot of the character's development, way in the past before the actual events that supposedly "go against his character". Getting rid of them is the perfect cover story to the undercity: Vander ran away with Vi to escape the enforcers searching for her. He *literally says* this is his reasoning for involving the kids, because ultimately sacrificing them is what Zaun needs (according to him, at the time). It's not that it doesn't make sense, it's that his motivation has completely consistent nuance LMAO.
Brothas in the comments and bro who made the video need to read this comment.
Never thought about this, I always saw Act 1 Season 2 to be the most glaring part of season 2 with how all it did was retread already established ground for 3 episodes.. but the more I look into it seems like all of season 2 has writing issues.
the amount of fan fiction level fan service we had in Season 2 was insane and the way Jinx makes way more dogshit Marvel jokes was so cringe
100% this
@@danutghidia5820 "You really are a-"
"Big fat hero"
🤢🤮
I kinda had no grudge against it while watching. But in the end after a whole month of analysing Arcane as a whole these scenes make me want to throw up whenever I hear characters vocalize these words 💀
I mean how is it possible it is so bad? Chris Link and Amanda are the people who (I'm doubting that now) took part in writing Season 1. How is it possible that the same people who had been working on S1 with amazing dialogues fucked it all up so badly?
It’s real weird that you think that post time skip Silco cared before Powder held him.
the point he’s making is that it’s weird silco didn’t care vi or powder in s1a1
@ and that’s what I’m saying is ignorant. Silco didn’t care about anyone until he saw himself in Powder and groomed her to be Jinx. Maybe he cared for the mother, but the trauma of her death shot him and Vander in opposite directions. Kind of like Isha was for Jinx after Vander’s death? OMG it’s almost like Jinx and Vi are mirroring the past and that’s the entire message of Arcane????
@@celestialthearch8535 sorry, that was condescending. I get frustrated sometimes. It drives me nuts that there are so many people that don’t understand what are to me obvious messages, especially in such a masterpiece as Arcane.
You are 100% correct, i can understand loving a show despite it being filled with plotholes, but at least embrace the stupidity.
The flashback didnt make any sense Silco plotwise, i dont even know why they put him there, he doesnt really say anything.
God, thank you so much. I went so feral about how much I hate what this scene says about Vander and Silco. Turning their already-established, complex, interesting character arcs (and even their general dream of an independent Zaun!) into "we gotta do it fer Felicia" was such an insult.
In the bridge Vander gives a head nod showing them Where their parents are at which signifies be knows who their parents are and them to have such information. I totally missed this in my first watch but it unfortunately makes the flashback in season 2 make sense
But it totally feels off and ur absolutely right in ur concern, I too am making an analysis and it is so tragic season 2 wrote it such
Changing the Writing staff is a major red flag when it comes to a good TV show. Why did they get rid of the staff if they had a 250 million dollar budget? Something does not add up
The writers for S2 also worked on S1. The staff was reduced (likely due to covid restrictions still in effect when the writing happened), and 1 of the lead writers could not return due to other projects.
To me it feels like they had written season 2 of a trilogy, and then got word that the trilogy was being reduced to 2 seasons (not hard to beleive, 3 episode per arc, 3 arcs per season, 3 seasons makes sense) so they crammed as much as they could and had of season three also into season 2. There is just too much all at once to explore to do it coherently. Everything feels so rushed.
This is an even worst retcon than the one with the mage -now Viktor-, I just can't.
I think there was some foreshorting in season 1's opening scene that linked Vander to vi's family. You can see how vi's eyes lit up with a little smile when she saw vander,like she knew him and could trust him. Also, in one music video in season 2,it seemed like Patricia left vander to babysit vi and jinx before shit went down.But I agree with you,this SUPPOSEDLY SWEET SCENE cheaper greater ones . Removing the og writers was a terrible mistake
So, just a few points that I think got missed about this scene.
First, if Vander and Silco led a revolution, it would make sense that they knew the members of that movement. These people would be heavily invested in them and their cause. So them knowing Felicia should come as no surprise.
Felicia puts them "on the hook" to create their dream of Zaun, to create a better future for her kid(s). Vander abandons this, choosing safety, but at the cost of a miserable future for the undercity. Silco abandons this twice. First to further his own position in the underground and set himself up as a drug lord, making his own version of Piltover in the underground while pretending to be fighting for the cause. The second time, he does actually choose Jinx over his old dream. But thats a other topic.
Vander knew the kids in S1 E1 opening. And they knew him too. When he sees Vi and Powder on the bridge, they were frightened by the violence they just witnessed, not by Vander. As soon as Vi recognizes him, she asks him non-verbally, with just a look, where her parents were. He knows who she is and where her parents are (dead on the ground) but you can see the look in his face as to what this means to the kids. They did end up in his arms holding him as he walked away. It was always evident to me that he knew them.
Silco does not seem to give any respect for the children of fallen comrads. He would have likely also known that all of Vanders "children" were orphans from HIS revellion. Didn't stop him at all. We don't know that he was as close to Felicia as Vander was. Vander looked a lot closer in the flashback and a lot more involved. We also know her death affected him more.
Silco did at least know Powder well enough to know she was Vi's sister in S1 E3. He didn't even see her with the group in the room or on the windowsill. Yet when he runs into her in the ally, he asks where her sister is.
100%.
Lots of things that were poorly executed in S2. But this was not one of them.
Like most plot points in s2, it was meant to be cute/emotional/emotion inducing, but there was little logic or sense behind it, and it made everything retroactively worse.
Right?! So much of season 2 felt kinda fanfic-esque.
I think it comes down to how their mom died. Its left in such a grey area that I can see Silco feeling betrayed by Felicia and the world. Thats the way I choose to rationalize his behavior toward the kids. Its not totally broken but it doesn't work like I think they wanted it to. Say Vander drowns Silco and then gets Felicia killed. He has his reborn moment and could view the whole family and his past life in a whole new light? Idk.
@@chainsmokingpeepo this argument dosent work for me . It’s also implied that silico is the one who killed her on accident .
@@Constantine_Jamesno argument here. Do you think the drowning happens before or after their adoption then?
@@chainsmokingpeepo drowning happens before . Vander looks younger .
@@Constantine_James Thats what I thought. The letter made it seem like after. Thanks.
@@Constantine_JamesNo, it's never implied this happened. You want to see stupid problems to excuse your biased opinion against everything in the show. You watched some critic ripping it apart and without any critical thought you jumped one the dogpile. Mob psychology, online edition. Pathetic.
1:40 Interesting take, but it seems a bit off. You're suggesting that Vander never mentioned being friends with Vi and Powder's mother, yet in Season 2, Episode 6, during the Remember Me scene, we clearly see Vander playing with Vi before the events of the pilot. Why would he need to randomly state that he was friends with their mother when it’s evident they already knew?
2:13 You’re misinterpreting Silco’s character. His entire arc revolves around his willingness to "do anything to achieve power." He explicitly states this, and his actions consistently align with that philosophy throughout the series. Silco understands the importance of knowing when to kill and when it isn't necessary-it's encapsulated in the title, "The Base Violence Necessary for Change". His ruthless nature and disregard for his past define his character development; he’s willing to destroy anyone or anything standing in his way. When you compare past ideologies with concurrent ones, you're oversimplifying his motivations. Your argument here doesn’t offer much substance-it essentially boils down to, "Really? Nuh-uh!" without further elaboration.
2:37 Silco has no reason to have met Powder and Vi. He’s primarily depicted as a bar companion, not someone who would visit or babysit children like Vander. It’s unlikely their mother would have taken them to such an adult and potentially dangerous place, even back then. Even if Silco did see them (which seems doubtful, considering he specifically refers to them as “Vander’s children”), he never explicitly states that he doesn’t know who they are. Ultimately, it doesn’t matter-it all aligns with his character arc, no matter how you interpret it.
3:00 Briefly addressing this: Silco could simply be shocked because he tried to kill her family. Maybe Vander told these kids plenty of stories about how evil he was (assuming Silco even knows them). Or he might just be stunned that Powder hugged him-it doesn’t have to be as deep as you’re making it out to be. Also, it's entirely possible, if he even did meet them, that he only met Vi and not Powder, considering Powder wasn't born till many years later which would have been AFTER the drowning scene, so he would no longer be friends with Vander or the mother. Like are you doing any thinking at all?
Honestly, there are far bigger issues with Arcane that you could have focused on. These points feel weak and, frankly, among the least relevant-if they’re relevant at all.
Well said. 👏 In my opinion, I think it makes sense that Silco probably left the scene not long after Vi was born to begin building what would later become his enterprise of the Underworld, where contact between him and Felicia probably stopped, then reemerging around the time of the flashback in S1 E1 for the riot scene, then disappearing again after Felicia's death and Vander's betrayal. He most likely knew who Vi was, but that didn't matter to him because A) She'd just beaten the hell out of a bunch of his hired goons and was clearly a threat to the operation, and B) as you said, it's part of his identity that he'd stop at nothing to achieve power. It's pretty much zero chance that there was any emotional connection between Silco and Felicia's kids.
Powder, obviously, he'd never met before E3. He likely took her in because of multiple reasons- A) manipulating her into a tool he could later use, B) he felt pity for her, or C) perhaps the fact that he knew she was Felicia's daughter (despite never having met) and felt a paternal instinct manifest that hadn't existed prior. Probably all three. It was a multi-faceted decision made in a split second that evolved into a deeply paternal (twisted, but paternal) relationship.
This is obviously more or less just my personal head-canon, but it's what makes sense to me. And you're certainly right, there's FAR bigger issues with S2 than this one (*cough* useless cupcake eating scene *cough*). I'd never even considered this aspect of the storyline a problem until clicking on this video.
@@calebwaldron8600 Now this makes more sense.
The problem with the original poster of this video is he doesn't really understand what he's saying. Unlike other critics who offer detail and pinpoint specifics that either don't mesh well or contradict the overarching storyline or character development, this guy's entire video was "Nuh uh", "I don't think so", "I find it ridiculous that" without adding any substance whatsoever. He's jumping on the Arcane critique train with little media literacy.
Hold on, I really like this comment, but there's a mistake. Silco was at the bridge fight in episode S1E1. We see this, I believe, through S2 Vander when he hears Silco say "Blisters and Bedrock" before slashing at the vision of Silco. There's a very, very short scene that shows Silco at the bridge throwing a Molotov. It is implied that Silco threw the Molotov at the enforcer and started the bridge fight, indirectly killing Felicia. Maybe even SIlco convinced Felicia to come to the bridge, considering she implies in Blister and Bedrock that she can't be a mother and an active member of the independence movement at the same time, but that's pure speculation. Silco is also depicted as a fellow miner to Vander, Felicia and Connel, so he's more than just a bar companion, but he isn't depicted in the family setting like Vander is.
Another mistake is that Powder was born before the drowning scene. Silco is with Felicia and Vander on the bridge, where Felicia dies. Powder is depicted in Vander's memory with Felicia, Connel, Vi, and him. It's impossible, twice over, for the Powder to be born after the drowning scene.
Silco says "Where is your sister?" to Powder in S1E3, so he does know who they are and that they're sisters. Silco also says to Vi in S1E6 "I thought you were the prize of your secondhand family," implying he also knew this for a while before that event. He could have gained that knowledge through information gathering, it's not secret information, but it makes more sense that he knows from being familiar with them and Felicia as a family. Silco clearly intended to kill Vander to seize control of Zaun and its way forward, with the intention of killing his children as well so as not to make Vander their martyr. Additionally, killing Vander and his children all together allows him to spread the story he claims to want to in S1E3 that Vander and his children fled the city. This story helps Silco seize power and motivate Zaun in several ways. Silco didn't kill the beloved Vander, but instead has to take up the fight in his stead as his old friend and compatriot. Vander, beloved in Zaun, is seemingly forced to flee Zaun due to the Piltovan enforcers searching for his children. Silco's whole philosophy post-drowning is "power comes to those who are willing to do anything to achieve it." He has already given up his morals and directly claims he's willing to do anything to achieve power. Not only is it not out of character for him to betray his promise and kill the children, it is in direct alignment with his own philosophy he says out loud for the audience to hear. Powder hugging him is unexpected because the rest the children were all just working to stop him. You could even interpret that he believes she must've been the one behind the explosion since he knew where all the other kids were, and that he knew that explosion was intended for Deckard. Also, this is probably the first time Silco has experienced any positive touch from another person since the bridge fight, so he has a lot of reasons to react shocked. His most recent intimate human interactions were the last two times Vander tried to strangle him to death.
Silco does state directly and explicitly in S1 that his current philosophy of power and such was developed after Vander tried to drown him. So it doesn't make sense for him to act that way before that event happens. Vander and Silco both clearly had a violent philosophy on how to improve Zaun before the bridge incident, it's only after that that Silco and Vander adopt their new philosophies.
I definitely think Arcane S2 is still a masterpiece. No story is ever going to be perfect, but all of Arcane is excellent.
Blisters and Bedrock shows/explains the drowning scene being closely after the Bridge Revolution scene. Vander says "When she died, I lost my head". Also, it seems that Silco escalated the violence on that day which led to Felicia dying. (there are some very fast and short cutscenes in Blisters and Bedrock, and I had some video explaining this to me, allegedly Christian Linke explained that in an interview, somewhere).
So, as Powder already was born in the very first scene, and Silco's drowning by Vander's hand is supposed to be after that.
@@ArguablyRight That's almost all most of the critics do. I mostly had questions because I just didn't get things, because some things are just so fast or only like 3 words in dialogue.
Like Vi, after meeting Cait in S2E6 and making a plan with her, is going back to Jinx as says "Vander's in trouble. I have a plan, you're not going to like it". But we only hear Vi say that, while the picture is already showing Jinx helping Cait. Which I didn't get.
In S2E8 Cait complains to Vi about Jinx being there because Vi wouldn't trust Cait.
I couldn't make sense of Cait's complaint or why Jinx was helping her (and then Cait being surprised Jinx was even there), but the few words "Vander's in trouble, I have a plan, you're not gonna like it" made sense of it all. And Vi couldn't have said them to Cait, because that wouldn't have made any sense.
So. I learned: If I think something is off: I probably missed something. And as of yet, I almost always found what I missed, eventually.
Not Silco, but I always assumed Vander knew Vi and Powder. They seem to recognize Vander at the bridge and he knows to show them their parents. So he has to know who they are and who their parents are.
I think some haters of S2 are copying so hard, if u critique the show do it right PLEASE, because there are flaws in this second season even tho i love it with all my heart. First I have to say opinions are subjective u can hate the show "just because", there´s a lot left to interpretation which is something that I love in this show that don´t take us for fools and even if we are wrong in something that is objective everyone can make mistakes, so no problems with that. So in my opinion these are the mistakes on the video:
1-Visual interpretation: In the opening scene it´s clear that at least they know each other because Vi approached him despite the violence scene Vander was making, if you see a man beating to death you run, but Vi stayed because he recognised him, and then Vander signals Vi where her parents are, so don´t make up things pls.
2-Misinterpretation of Silco and Vander: The Key moment was the bridge, for Vander: Vi´s parents dying made him realise war it´s not the way and he is not prepared to fight if there´s the chance of losing his loved ones, it make him blame himself but above all to Silco for pushing too far the revolution at the bridge which cause their confrontation later at the river for Felicia´s death and the future of Zaun, Vander probably knew Silco wouldn´t stop keep pushing the confrontation after Felicia´s death and that would end up on the undercity being massacred.
For Silco: I´m sure that he charges a lot of guilt because of Felicia´s death but he reacted differently than Vander, all that guilt and losing her make him redirect and increase all his blame/hate towards Piltover, then the confrontation with Vander happened and we know how that went, Silco was reborn with all his ideals and his thoughts clearer than ever, just like Viktor did after Jayce Shot him. And as he said he would stop at nothing, until he gets the respect he wants from the topside. "Killing" and transforming Vander into a monster? Kill the kids of Felicia? Dont care if taking them out of the picture will make his plan to take the undercity´s control.
The situation regarding Silco, Vi and Powder its more open up to interpretation: you could say that he didnt know Powder was Felicia´s kid or just that he didnt remember them, but I lean more towards that he simply didn´t care after being "reborn" in the river, he just had one objecitve in his life and that´s it. So for me, the episode 3 moment with Powder now is even better, because Silco was so far gone that he didn´t care about killing her dear late friend´s child. Or so we thought, because Powder, just a child that wanted to prove herself worthy to her sister and, with an inmense pain and guilt was able to ignite a spark of empathy and humanity in a man that thought that nothing ever again was going to stop him from achieving his dream of the nation of Zaun, just like Viktor thought that no one was going to stop him of the glorious evolution, Jayce and Powder with their respective hugs brought back the humanity of Viktor and Silco.
3-Flasback s2 ep5: Look at Silco whenever Felicia is talking about the shit down here or about Zaun, they can say a lot about his character traits early on, he doesn´t even toast for Felicia´s child, he toasts for Zaun. And in the video i think i heared that they promised they would take care of them, the promise they "technically" made is that they will make the undercity a healthy comunity, for them, yes. But not the same, and we see how both Vander and Silco have different ideals.
I think that´s all. PD: Sorry if I´ve seem rude at the beginning apoligises early on.
I completely agree with your interpretaton of the opening scene of s1e1.
However, Silco states in s1e3, that Vander trying to murder him specifically happened an amount of time before Vander stopped his rebellion. So It would seem like Vander trying to kill Silco happened some time before the bridge scene.
This is how I interpreted the story as well. Silco cared for Jinx as long as she did what was expected from her not because of the promise they made to their mother. There was empathy from him but not for the right reasons. Silco saw himself in Powder, someone he can relate to. Also he was asking her in E03 "Where is your sister?" It clearly implies he knows who they are but doesn't care about their well being at all thats why he was ready to kill them as he was ready to kill Vander.
@@Frir10 I don´t remember Silco saying that honestly. And I love that scene, check it out because I dont think that he specifically states that the bridge incident happened before, he just says that he kept his respect until he made peace with them and that´s not what you are saying at all.
@@Msmk-im6sq True! so then the theories "he didn´t remember" or he didn´t know about Powder are a little less valid, thanks for remembering/remind me that sentence. It made more sense for me that Silco knew as I said in my interpretation.
@@Frir10 There's a Vander/Warwick memory scene that shows that Silco threw a Molotov at an enforcer at the bridge incident which caused the event to escalate to violence. Silco is still allied with Vander and Felicia in the opening scene of S1E1. Vander blames Silco for indirectly killing Felicia by escalating the situation to violence. Vander recognizes later that he fed into the violence and enabled the situation pretty much just as much as Silco did by organizing everything and being involved. That's why he later writes the letter and changes his ways. He realizes that the problem was using violence as a solution to their problem, not just Silco's tactless use of it. Hence why he hangs up the gloves, he believes the problem is using violence itself whenever not completely necessary.
Silco was also about to kill powder, thats why he pulled out that knife before she jumped in his arms
Bro is conveniently ignoring the fact that S1 doesn't show the detailed reasons for Vander trying to murder Silco. It would be a strange assumption to make that Vander's motivation wouldn't have been set in place in the first season's writing already. I cannot really think about a better motivation than losing a good friend (indirectly) through Silco's decisions, considering Silco was another good friend.
But Silco stated, that even after Vander tried to kill him, he still respected Vander, because he was still fighting for the cause. But we are shown, that Vander stopped fighting for the cause the moment he adopted Vi and Powder, which happened moments after their mom was slain. So what is the timeline here?
1) Vander tries to murder Silco.
2) Vander leads a rebellion against Piltover, in which Felicia dies.
3) Vander lays down his gauntlets, adopts Vi and Powder, and immediately ends the fighting.
That is how it was laid out by Silco anyway.
@@Frir10 I know I responded to you on another post, but for other readers, I'm gonna say it again. There's a Vander/Warwick memory scene where Silco is throwing a Molotov at the bridge scene, escalating the situation to violence. This implies they're still allied and that the Vander drowning Silco scene happens after the bridge scene, and is motivated by Silco's actions and the outcome of the bridge scene. Otherwise, it seems like Vander just tries to kill him for no reason.
@@LiveGame555 I must have missed that scene. But that would still feel like retconning to me. As in s2 retconned it so that Vander, Silco and Felicia were all friends until the bridge scene.
In s1e3, Silco says to Vander:
"No, you still don't understand. Can you imagine what it's like. When your blood mixes with the filth and the river toxins eat through your nerves. Oh I hated you for what you'd done. But as time passed, so did my hate. And I was left with an understanding. The only way to defeat a superior enemy is to stop at nothing. To become what they fear. I hated you, but you kept my respect. Until you made peace with them. Played lapdog after everything we'd suffered."
While you make valid points, I think you also ignore many. Vander and Silco do know the sisters, we know it from season 1 (In the opening scene, Vander nods towards their mom's body). In episode 5, Silco tells Vi 'I thought you were the prize of your family'. If you follow closely the fight in episode 3, you see that Silco is testing Vi (not throwing Sevika at her), probably thinking of employing her in the future. Plus obviously we get the Silco/Vander scenes in ep 3(opening flashback + all along the ep), where he calls Vander his friend etc. Then in season 2 we see that Silco was the one to start stirring shit up on the bridge which cause all the death from the s1 opening.
"Why would Silco be willing to kill Vi?" Same reason he's willing to kill Vander: near death experience and fear of resentment.
"Why would Silco act like this with Powder?" To "bring her in". Nothing special about that scene whether he knows her or not. He intended to get Vi, he ends up with Powder, he intends to make the most of it.
A lot of assumptions made here. This is like taking a colouring book, guessing which colours to use, and then blaming the book when it doesn't make sense.
You're right about everything, this flashback doesn't work at all and it's cringe. But the opening of season 1 does show that Vander knows who Vi and Powder's parents are; when he sees Vi he nods his head over to their bodies.
To Silco, Vander's "kids" were part of Vander's plan for Zaun, not his. Maybe he used to feel responsible for them, but its clear that was long past.
Just because he knew of the sisters didn't mean he knows them. We hear Silco mention in season 1, "Vander is in trouble" after he learns about the kids being responsible for the Piltover job. He clearly knows about the kids. He also talks to Vi before he fight in season 1 episode 3, mentioning her as Vander's prodigy.
Can someone please send link or post where it's said they cut writing staff? I can't find it anywhere and I presonally don't belive it.
I think Season 2 was incredible. Yes, it had faster pacing and some things might need more time to develop but the writing guality and principle of show, don't tell work beautifully.
No, it's brilliant! Now we know why Vander and Silko quarreled - because of the death of the sisters' parents in that first scene. The genius is that, judging by the flashbacks of the fight from the first season, first thing they decided to get younger, and Vander also decided to shave.
I think it’s alright if Vander is somewhat familiar with Violet and Powder, as he is a figurehead of Zaun and thus would probably know most of the people in the lanes (Vi does seem to somewhat know him during the scene where Vander takes her in). But being good friends with Felicia and having that be his motivation to adopt Vi/Powder? Yeah that cheapens the scene a lot. Same with Silco.
Alot of people playing defence for this in the comments seem to be ignoring the fact that it's a blatant retcon BECAUSE THE WRITERS DIDNT CARE ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN SEASON1
They had a story they wanted to tell in season2 by any means necessary, even if they were going to step on their own writing
Just because you can explain it doesn't mean it was planned nor necessarily good.
Ah yes so the audience needs to have every tiny bit explained to put the story together
Honestly upon my first watch when this episode aired I had no grudge towards it. In fact I was somewhat emotionally invested in all this Warwick - sisters relationships and was more focused on these characters present. However the disappointment which the 3rd arc is made me start to ask questions towards everything beforehand. And the deeper I went into it the more flaws of this Season overall started to emerge.
This scene in particular and Vander/Silco backstory being rewritten like that (since there's no way they originally intended it just like that) made completely no sense at all if closely considered. And it pisses me off since the only reason they brough it in is to turn a cheap emotional bait on viewers (which sadly worked on many). However in the grand scheme of things it all doesn't make any sense, ESPECIALLY with Silco's character. There's no way they would make me belive that Silco will be ready to kill his old dead friend girls with what was shown on the screen. And that's exactly what he's trying to do in Season 1! If he originally really was so close to Felicia then he would try to talk some sense into Vi and Powder. Especially since Vi sometimes vocalized similar ideas with Silco's (that being them both desiring some respect from Piltover).
I'm incredibly pissed off by how they handeled that. They basically ruined already established storyline for cheap emotional bait and nothing more, since we never come back to this new established background ever again. They never explain why Silco is all over the sudden is ready to literally kill these girls, how exactly did he come to this conclusion. I mean what must happen to a man for him wanting to kill kids of their friends? It's definetly not Vander since they're not Vander's kids. But what Felicia could even possibly do what would make Silco so coldblooded in ordering to get disposed of them like they're some random street thugs? That's just ridiculous
What really piss me of about Vander in season 1 and is increased due to the flashbacks in season 2 is the favoritism that Vander has towards Vi in none of the flashbacks we see any moment when he connects or spend any time with Powder, Milo or Claggor we don't even see how he came to adopt the last two heck we don't even see any image of Vander childhood or anything in season 1 he raised and care Vi and expect her to raise the other three
Im so so so glad that people are waking up and looking past the hype. Alot of things jsut dont make sense, you can have a shitty season but don't go changing Season 1 through it.
Also quick note: silco most important trait is loyalty, so him betraying her promise would break his character 😂
Silcos' most important trait is that he'll do anything for power, loyalty is his next most important trait. These two important things to him coming into conflict within himself is part of the good writing. Also, he's a villain, and most villains are hypocrites. Most people are honestly hypocrites, let alone villains.
Even if they did cut writers , did the remaining were somewhat talented or decent writers ? Even by not respecting what S1 was about why so many plotholes , rushed and incoherent storylines ?
my 2 cents in this matter:
So basically, Silco's character in relation with other people completely flipped when he was coldly betrayed by Vander, and Vander insinuated in the letter that he blamed Silco for Felicia and Spenser's deaths.
Silco coped through that murder attempt and betrayal from the person he trusted the most by branding him, Violet, Powder as traitors to the cause.
We know Silco's actions were what tipped the riot at the bridge to a massacre, and we know that Vander was the one who closely valued Powder and Vi, which implies two things: 1. Silco was more attached to the revolution 2. Vander was more attached to the family
Silco likely never had that as close of an attachment to Felicia's family, and thus was naturally colder to Violet and Powder when they meet again at the abandoned warehouse. It was only when Powder mirrored Silco's trauma that he remembered his humanity, that he finally began to see and slowly value family like how Vander did.
0:02 like in incredibles and pixels
250 million and they cant keep good writer and keep bad writer thank you riot
These writing errors are a big focus of the essay I'm currently writing but it's taking a long ass time to finish
What's your sources on the writing team getting liquidated? I wanna read more into all that.
• Arcane S2 Ep4 Watch Party with Amanda Overton and Katy Townsend • timestamp at 1:29:56
Seeing all those RUclips reaction channels sob and cry at this scene makes me laugh bc it's so stupid and manipultive.
It only works if you turn your brain off
Did you just black out certain information/scenes while watching, especially S1? Some of you desperately need a thorough rewatch if you’re misunderstanding THIS badly.
The blisters & bedrock scene changes fundamentally nothing of what’s already established in S1. How many times does it have to be beaten into the audience’s head that the Silco we see in the present (selfish, morally corrupt, power hungry, apathetic to the average Zaunite’s plight if it meant furthering the “liberation” of Zaun) is an entirely changed man?
Paraphrasing Silco’s lines:
“Power comes to those willing to do anything to take it.”
“I was reborn in that river.”
This is not the same Silco as the one who bantered, drank, and lent moral support to Felicia. Whatever oath, promise, or affections he held in the past died in the river where he almost drowned.
Yeah, it makes no sense.
I actually think the only good character storyline is the "love"triangel between Mel, Jayce and Victor. Its starts with Jayce/Vik but then Mel tries to "steal" him by using him as her way to more political power. But every time Jayce comes back to Viktor and science. There were several transitions were Mel get replaced by Viktor. The final was when S2 Jayce see Mel getting literally burned away in the fire. He left the council and also broke up with her (which was no surprise considering their relationship was built in politics) and he choose Viktor and "died" with him.
Jayce having to choose between them and politics and sciene was really well done. It was set up from the beginning and had a great finale.
First and biggest mistake, Christian told that they delivered all the script/history since the first part, something riot ask him to do, and yeah, i believe him, thats why the 5 seasons missunderstanding happend (plot-money-green light). Thats why at the end the only ones left where Alex and Chris basically, to sharpen what Amanda and the rest of her team/other contractors already finished.
Like many others I realy like Arcane. But I think its funny how so many people try to protect the show against any critique. Because while Season two was still pretty great it was definitly flawed. Denying that is just closing your eyes in front of the truth. Videos like this one show how some things in season 2 just did not work out. In my opinion the hype for arcane realy became the shows biggest problem, resulting in people praising Arcane just because everyone else does, but without actually thinking about the show and making your own opinion. Often it seems like people feel personaly insulted when someone criticized something in arcane, resulting in them trying to bring an argument for why this detail is as perfekt as the rest of the show, even though there just is no good argument in these cases.
It's about 3:23 am right now, but. Back when I watched season one I was a diehard Arcane fan. Cried rivers to the show. Defended, Jayce, Loved Vi, Viktor, hyped for Singed and Warwick. All the cool stuff. But after watching season two I felt let down personally. It's not bad, but it feels like a different show compared to season one
One of worst retcon in the history of retcon
This sounds like a you problem. Others have already explained how this scene makes sense. I can't force you though to like something you don't like. Season 2 isn't perfect, it has its flaws. But there is still a lot to love about it. And the stuff worth criticizing it over, I don't believe this is it. I'll leave it at that.
God I hated this scene, ruined the entire first season and the found family idea.
It seem that this is the problem whit the entretainment industry, New writers whant to write their story and only their story, still really good show.❤
eh I thought it worked great
subbed
0:03 she looks like Caitlin
Vi's got mommy issues
@ I guess she sees her mum in Caitlin
1:20 The heck? Why "he doesn't know" them? What show did you watch? Rewatch, please, before making content. They ABSOLUTELY CLEARLY KNEW EACH OTHER on the bridge, she asks him where her parents are and he nods to the bodies. I will continue to watch, but for now that vid seems to be another "watched with wrong bodypart" type critique. Any type of discussion is better than none, but god, did Arcane challenge ppl's ability to focus... there are so many of those ppl "in dire need of a rewatch" out there.
and also, there was a scene with vander and vi on the bridge in season 1, episode 1 i think, where he mentioned her parents. i‘m pretty sure he has been open about his friendship to their parents!
Yeah those scenes felt really off
Also thought about it!
I got a weird feeling about this scene even the first time I watched it because the 3 of them seemed far more intimate than just friends. And when Felicia said she was knocked up and said she can't keep living "In the moment", it gave me the impression that Vi and Powder were Vander and Silco's biological daughters respectively. Other than the fact that this would mean she cheated on her husband, it would mean that Vi and Powder weren't full sisters, were bastard children and Vander's morality and responsible nature is shattered. It just gave me this nasty feeling about the whole situation and the worst part about it is that I still get that impression when I rewatch the scene because everything about the way its written points to it being true. I know it probably isn't, but this scene was just weirdly written.
Absolutely correct! was talking about it all the time! This is ruining character of Silco completely, just ,aking him another villian psycho.
Isha is also terrible