PFF Explain the Grade: CJ Stroud vs Jordan Love | PFF
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- Опубликовано: 16 янв 2024
- PFF's Sam Monson and Steve Palazzolo review the Wild Card grades from CJ Stroud and Jordan Love and explain the differences.
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Saying Jordan Love was 15 PERCENTAGE points better than CJ Stroud is asinine.
1. "Turnover worthy play" is nonsense would have had to be be a RIDICULOUS catch by the defender.
2. Nico Collins overthrow was because Nico was JOGGING for the first part of that Route.
3. Jordan Love underthrew a TD pass to a person who was recored as having the MOST spereration from ANY defender THIS YEAR. How that doesn't count against Love in the same way it counts against CJ on the 76 TD pass is silly.
4. CJ put up 236 yards and 3 TD's at HALFTIME.
YA'LL SYSTEM IS JUST PLAIN STUPID!
It hit the safety right in both hands, and if the corner hadn’t slammed into him while ALSO trying to intercept it and knocking it loose, it would have been an INT absolutely.
As for the wide open TD to Musgrave, the ball was intentionally lofted up. There is 0 reason to risk overthrowing the ball when there is no chance of an interception. Love already stated he lofted that ball softly to make sure his receiver had an easy catch.
Also, when you only have 21 throws, bad plays count for more points. Whether or not that pass was overthrown to Collin’s, they graded it as such. Along with what SHOULD have been a pick, just those 2 plays alone are 10% of his grade.
JJ may not understand the PFF grading (who does?) but his sentiment is the correct one.
Another interesting consideration is that Jordan Love has control and is checking into a lot of his big-time plays
Interesting perspective. Thanks for spending the time to create and share this content perspective. Pretty cool as long as it’s consistent across the board ✅
No one knows what they are all judging these players on. No set metrics and a lot of hypotheticals.
The fact that yall cant take criticism for yalls grading system tells me everything i need to know about yall.
why they can't taken criticism? I don't see it that way watching the video.
@@Darkrezta must have seen it differently then. They are trying to discredit JJ Watt by saying he obviously doesn't understand how their system work. Still seems like they are speaking from a place of authority that they don't deserve. Could just be me though.
@@StormsFatality1080they arent the authority on how their own system works? they are literally the only authority on how THEIR system works. And its not an algorithm as watt said so he is literally factually incorrect
@@hoss2060 clearly don't understand what "place of authority" means.
@@StormsFatality1080I’m with Hoss on this one. You sound like a fanboy that’s made his hero got slapped down lol. JJ made a claim based off of assumptions that were false, get over it.
Nerds that never played a down of football
Translation: “Our objective grades are actually highly subjective.”
JJ clearly was not informed on how grades are arrived as Sam said, however his overall sentiment is still correct
Always have been
@@TooMuchTuna07 do you know that for sure or are you talking out of your ass? A lot of what they grade is VERY subjective
@@fbch32 yeah we agree
Idk ima packers fan and love fanatic… wouldn’t the plays where the receivers where soooo wide open for love kinda equal a wr making a play for stroud?
Yes, but if you didn't know, that Musgrave TD where there wasn't a Cowboys DB in sight for at least +10yds? Love called that play. As in, he overrode LaFleur's original call for that play (it was going to be a run like it was previously, as it was in that game up until that point) due to how he read the Cowboys defense. If PFF is considering some of the wide-open plays where it was Love who actually changed the playcall after diagnosing the defense, then it makes sense that it matters more and reflects more on the QB than the WRs.
This is exactly what I was gonna say but yk pff just trynna back themselfs again from another weird grading idk why we even pay attention to these gradings look at Myles garret
@@narcocastillo3783 And you know that because LaFleur talked about it. You know nothing about changes Stroud made in that game or any other game because OC Slowik, the play caller, doesn't talk about it. I'm pretty sure at this point in the season Stroud the authority to change a play call because of what he sees on he field.
@@lindatinjum2944 what you know for sure it's irrelevant. what relevant is what people on the field told us what the actual play is. that information is the only information that relevant the rest should be taken with a grant of salt.
@@papichico1471if you’re not a big sports person that’s fine but there’s a reason people who know what they’re talking about refer to these same pff grades all the time.
“Stroud doesn’t deserve credit on the 76 yard touchdown”…tell that to the LB and DE who were coming at him unblocked and closing fast. Stroud sold the play then adjusted his throwing angle to avoid the two defenders and execute the play. Those subtle nuances can’t be graded. Stroud is a baller.
so he gets the appropriate credit for the throw. The point is the YAC thats tacked on to his box score isnt indicative of his "contribution"
He did get credit for it. Hence why he had a very positive grade
Yeah stroud probably got a 1.0 on that play, the same that jordan love probably got on his 50 yard td with his wide open te .
The reality is everyone saw CJ destroy the # 1 ranked Defense and make throws hanging in the pocket untill the last second.
^THIS
he threw into double coverage, but it still hit the receiver's hands from what i remember, also if you watch that play where CJ over threw Collins, early in the route Collins is more jogging than in a full sprint and slows up again slightly after the break and can't recover from what probably would have been a perfectly timed pass.
It didn’t hit the receiver’s hand. It was a dropped pick
It didn't hit the WRs hands it hit the DBs hands lol
Between the receiver and the two defenders that were there, the receiver had the least amount of chance to catch the ball. Had the corner not hit the safety, it would have been a pick.
Exactly! Nico wasn’t running hard on that play
CJ and Love are both HIM
Texans visiting GB next year is so cool
😂 love is not him. Please stop, you played the cowboys..beat the niners and I’ll revisit my statement
@@ADIMusic-md1ijdumbass 😂
@@ADIMusic-md1ijlove has been mvp of the last half of the season buddy
@@ADIMusic-md1ij Give me a break. Love has been playing great for two months.
@@ADIMusic-md1ijDoesn’t matter if you revisit it because you clearly have no clue what you are talking about so why would we care about your opinions on the matter?
If you adjust for opponent then would you also have to adjust for any injuries that the opponent might have at that time?
tl;dr:I think Stroud's abilities are just as good, if not better than Love's, don't get me wrong. I just think that the reason why PFF gave Love a higher rating is due to the sheer efficiency when put in difficult situations, but also because of Love's ability to read defenses at an elite level and take advantage of it.
Ehh, it's not THAT egregious. I get why people are complaining, but there are a few reasons why there is such a disparity--disclaimer, I believe CJ Stroud did enough to warrant a slightly higher rating and even though I'm a packer fan IDK if Love deserved the 92-93 rating, I believe both are more deserving of ratings in the range of the 80s. Also, a PFF grade in the high 70s is NOT A BAD GRADE. this isn't madden. Anyway.
First, there is the issue of pass attempts. both Stroud & Love had 21 pass attempts which is pretty low for how well both dominated the opponent's defense. that also means any sort of small error scales up pretty badly due to the small sample size (such as the turnover worthy play).
Second, one thing that I do think should be taken into account is the fact that Stroud was pressured more than Love (~38% vs 20%) which should bump his score a little bit. HOWEVER, again, Love was more productive since he went 4/4 114yds & 1 TD when pressured vs Stroud who went 6/8 for 110yds.
Third, is the YAC vs air yards comparison. Yes, kind of dumb--but is anyone seriously going to say with a straight face that passing a lot of screens or short yardage is objectively more difficult than deeper passes? I agree, kinda dumb, but I'm guessing PFF weighs a lot into these issues since huge YAC differences between receivers in the games can reflect on the QB in certain ways, in the same way that CMC inflates his QB's numbers/efficiency. Also RE: YAC vs air yards, that one play where Musgrave was all alone and not a single player nearby?
That wasn't because GB's receivers were simply better than DAL's DBs. That play up until that point in the game has always been a run play, but Love overrode LaFleur's playcall and ran it as a pass play, which if it was considered in PFF's rankings, is also telling of Love's abilities/ratings. Love's reading of the defense and knowing they'd bite into the play as a run instead of a pass and basically telling the HC to "nah, we're running it differently just watch" and having it be one of the most embarrassing misplays by a defense since I've been watching it in the NFL counts for something. Love changed plays after reading the defense a few times in the game and they were all very successful, which says a lot about him as a QB -- I am not sure if Stroud did something similar so I can't speak for his half.
I think Stroud's abilities are just as good, if not better than Love's, don't get me wrong. I just think that the reason why PFF gave Love a higher rating is due to the sheer efficiency when put in difficult situations (almost half of his yards came from being pressured), but also because of Love's ability to read defenses at an elite level and take advantage of it (again, the Musgrave TD where he was all alone was literally because Love decided to change LaFleur's original call for that play due to how the cowboys D was playing).
Not entirely true as far as I understand it. MLF called that touchdown play to Musgrave the play before and Love checked out of it to a run play to Jones that went for like 30 yards and then they decided to call the play again on the next play which went for the Musgrave TD. Love did change a play but it was the play before and he changed it to the run.
PFF like S2 is a way for someone to make money, eyes don’t lie
You can’t claim Stroud was “unbelievable” when your own grading scale rates him as “starter level”. Those two things don’t jive.
Its PFF. Their "grades" are biased af.
There is no perfect grading scale
This statement is what actually sounds biased. You don't like the results so you say this. Completely nonsensical.@@williamhermann6635
Sure you can. He was unbelievable for most of the game, but had a few bad plays here and a lucky play in those instances so we have to account for that. There are plenty of games where a QB plays unbelievable at points and crap at points. To say otherwise is to deny reality.
@@arendahl3857 so it doesnt account for how Love threw a terrible touchdown pass to a reciever who was open by 50 yards but thanks to his reciever coming back to get his punt return pass and managing to beat out the safety it ended up saving the touchdown
Stroud threw into triple coverage and it was dropped by the wr in a window only he could make the catch...
Exactly, you need to look at context and how they got those numbers and not just at the raw end stats. Cause if that's the case then love needs to be considered MVP candidate.
Nice i understand pff grading for a quarterback now ! Thx !
Bot😂😂😂
I am a Packer fan, but did you knock Love for the Musgrave TD because it was a defensive misplay like you claim for the Jordan play?
If you're a packers fan, you should know by now that that play was because of Love. LaFleur wanted that play to be a run (that play was run prev in the game as runs), but because Love knew that the Cowboys would commit to it as a run play, he figured that a pass play would catch them with their pants down... which it did. That reflects way more on the QB than the WRs at that point, IMO.
@@narcocastillo3783Thats not how it works. Love isnt just out there calling his own plays. They call 2 plays in the huddle and they either run the first play called or "can" it and run the 2nd play called. Lafleur had been building up to that play all game with the presnap motions and split flow action plays. Its what makes this scheme so lethal. All the plays look the same and as soon as you sell out to stop something they hit you with the counter.
@@williamhermann6635 I agree LaFleur definitely deserves the spotlight too since that's what his system is built to do. I'm also not saying Love called all his plays (I mention that Love only changed playcalls a handful of times in this game, the Musgrave TD being one of them) It was Love's call to run it as a pass play though instead of a run which is what the HC wanted that time, and it ended up being a fantastic change of call because the defense committed to the run or short pass and it resulted in a TD.
again, a QB being able to properly diagnose a defense and knowing when to shift plays to grab a TD is more indicative of the QB than the WRs, which is what people are saying when they bring up the Musgrave TD. Is it part of Lafleur's system? Yes. But obviously that is also an example of Love being able to not just "play the part" in Packer's qb system, but EXCEL and understand it at a deep level that lets him get away with an embarrassing HS-level TD lol
@narcocastillo3783 You've actually got that backwards. LaFleur said in his press conference that they had called that play on the previous down, but didn't get the look from the defense that they wanted, so Love correctly canned to the run. They called the exact same play again, and got the look they wanted, so Love didn't change anything. Love is not changing the play based on what he wants, he is deciding how the play should be run based on the defense - which is exactly what LaFleur wants and expects. It's not "LaFleur called this play but Love changed to something else," its "LaFleur called THE play and Love determined how to make it successful based on the coverage from the defense.
Did y’all account for the dropped 20 yard pass by schultz? Does cj get credit for that almost play?
Yes, they look at every play. If they judge that Stroud did everything right except get the pass completed, they will give him a good grade for that play.
Yes
You said that CJ Stroud overthrew Nico Collins, if you watch different angles on the play you can see that Nico Collins is jogging at first and it seems by his pace that he does not expect to get the pass, he looks back and then tries to go faster which is why he trips. It is not an overthrow, but of course everything is on the QB and it’s never the receiver’s fault.
This is true. The throw was over 60 yards in the air and Nico was not going 100%
It was overthrown pretty bad
@@ChaseDvD if he wasn’t clearly speeding up after he looked back, I may have agreed with you. Receivers can make mistakes too.
Crazy part is CJ did all that in one half legit sat out almost the whole 3rd quarter and didn’t even play the 4th
He didn't sit till the 4th
@@CJNello I said he sat out almost the whole 3rd quarter because he did the first drive then after that the rest of the 3rd the browns offense was on throwing interceptions he legit didn’t even get a chance to get back in there
He threw 5 passes in the 2nd half@@CJNello
Valid
So if that play only goes for 12 yards. Because we are in the land of what if. Say he then hits a big time throw for a TD. So we are saying CJs grade ended up being lower cause his teammate made a play that didn’t give him extra attempts at him doing even more?
Yes, because they are grading based on plays that happened. Stroud made a fine, but easy throw and was graded as such regardless of what Brevin Jordan and the Browns defense did after the pass. For all we know, if that play only goes for 12 yards, CJ follows it up with another turnover worthy play.
@@BucsDucs99 or he can get a big time throw. I just think there explanation on this one is off.
CJ STROUD makes every player better whether you realize it or not!!
Sometimes you gotta throw the need numbers out and go with your eyes. And my eyes told me that a rookie In his first playoff game against the #1 rated defense (supposedly) torched them for three tds In The first half and didn’t have to do much of anything the rest of the game. Screw the numbers
cj had the betteer stat line in less time against a better defence, keep it up geniuses
So your saying that stroud did more with less talent at WR and RB against a better defense with less playing time and gets graded lower even tho the stats are exactly the same .... makes no sense at all these guys should be graded equally
PFF is a neat simplistic algo. It tends to be directionally correct over longer term. You should not take it seriously in a game by game situation. Everyone with at least one eye can see CJ did what ever he wanted in that game. Near perfect game
It’s not just an algorithm lol. They grade each play individually on a scale of I believe -2.5 to 2.5.
Wait so if you count the dropped interception against him, do you count the collins TD drop as positive for him?
Yes. They account for dropped passes in their grading and in their adjusted completion percentage
What collins TD drop? The overthrow is not a drop
Collins jogged on the play at first its his fault he was over thrown. Hi watch the breakdown by the qb school
@@dustincaballero8190 . That’s not a drop tho and I did watch that episode and even JT wasn’t sure why he jogged. Might be to sell the safety on a corner post which the safety was playing for, a lot of collins routes are like that. That’s why #33 was beat. He’s not getting beat on just a jog. He was fooled.
Yes. Thats the whole point. A dropped ball that hits the receiver in the chest is a positive grade for the QB and a negative grade for the WR. A caught ball that was tipped at the line and was a diving fingertip catch is a negative play for the QB and a positive grade for the WR. The point of the grading is to judge what the individual player personally did themselves and not the box score that is highly dependent on other players.
if you didn’t stat watch and actually watched the games you would actually see that stroud had a good game but love played a great game. the texans without the 2 pick 6’s offense generated 31-14 win. packers offense generated 41-16. that last 16 is essentially just stat pad cause the packers sat their starters. if you actually watched both games no watching stats love had the better game.
That JJ Watt is criticizing you is a testament to your success. I watched both games and if you didn't see the stats, you were more impressed with Jordan Love than CJ Stroud though both played great. The PFF ranking just quantifies that...
🤣🤣🤣 damn bro, looks like the people at PFF give some good ass head
@@fbch32tf
Brett favre would have never made the HOF with PFF scoring????
Look, PFF is a nice extra data point. If you complain enough they will change their rating. It's more subjective than objective. See the recent Sauce Gardner grade and how it was revised after a complaint. Sauce was right, PFF is far from perfect. How could they be, do they have a staff of hundreds to do this work? They do the best they can. Take it for what you will
Took you 17 minutes to tell us your grading is subjective? Hilarious people take PFF as gospel when in reality it’s confirmed average joe’s opinions on a sport they never played professionally
Stroud is a rookie and didn't play behind a great QB like Love and Love isn't a rookie. Stroud picked apart the Browns and surgically
No stat is perfect. But give me a better scheme for grading
I love this. Also lost some respect for JJ. If all this is true and JJ loves PFF when it likes him but hates PFF when he doesn’t agree with it, kind of hypocritical.
Love is awesome!
I don't have a horse in the CJ Stroud rating debate. However, after listening to this video I'm convinced these grades cannot be taken seriously. There's no way these grades are consistent from week to week. I also don't see anyway they can pump out the grades for the entire NFL within a day or two after the games happen.
They have a shit ton of graders its not just these two lol
@@hoss2060 I understand that. But if they all are sitting around debating scenarios like these guys then it's not a good system. Very subjective.
- There are 150 plays per game.
- There are 22 players on each play.
- That equals 52,800 play grades each week.
@@dustinrustick8450 they dont claim it to be objective the point is that their system is relatively consistent. The grades arent really worth much of anything in and of them selves its more for comparisons between players and over time
@@hoss2060 Really? I just watched a show a few weeks ago where they wondered out loud if the parody in the NFL is due to their numbers. Coaches and GMs have more insight so they don't make as many bad draft choices. It sure didn't sound like they think the grades "aren't worth much". I don't think the grades can be consistent with this much back and forth about each play.
@@dustinrustick8450 what?
It’s more how does similar stat lines grade so widely.
That’s what they were literally explaining the entire video lol
@@cluelessskb1813 for real lol. PFF's grading system is based on the idea that sometimes box scores don't give the full picture on a player, even if identical.
@@narcocastillo3783 the problem is that a lot of what they grade on is very subjective and prone to bias.
@@fbch32 I agree tbh. I'd grade Stroud higher, even if I thought Love played a little bit better.
think about it like this. imagine u and me are qbs in the nfl. say i throw 20/24 on the game with 5 tds and 400 yards. but the farthest air distance i threw was only 20 yards. meaning i had a lot of rac yardage. now you threw 21/25 and 4 tds on 400 yards but you were throwing both short and deep passes like 60 yards. say you threw multiple deep passes that were absolute lasers. but people on the stat sheet watch say the other guy played better even though you both have the same stats. pff shows us that even though stats may look the same its not always equal. like with stroud and love. or perfect example in the superbowl. obviously purdy had the better statistical numbers. but when you watched the game mahomes was making the better throws.
Jj did y’all a favor gave y’all free eyes and publicity
Love has a wide open WR that he under throw. The " pick worth" play wasn't really worth.
that play was scripted as a run play by LaFleur multiple times up until that point. Love knew cowboys D would overcommit to protect against the run play they've been running all game and they did. that is more reflective of the QB than the WRs.
Yall losing credibility because Nico stop running on that 50 yard overthrow… trash
So I get it. I understand the differences you are trying to explain but those the grading then factor in the scheme? If a scheme puts people at spots where the air yards are the goal without the YAC vs an offense build around YAC. A qb being able to execute that IS a QB stat and shouldn’t count against them. Not everyone can do that.
When a player takes a screen thats meant to go 12 yards based on the blockig in front of him 76 yards to the house who do you want to give the credit to. Overall their grades are probably garbage but the underlying logic there is sound
Why do these grades even exist? Like it’s so complicated. Love & Stroud had the same game and won. Who cares if love had to make more difficult throws. Maybe Stroud and his OC had a better game plan or maybe he used his eyes to manipulate the defense more effectively. Who cares how you get your stats in a given game as long as you put up numbers you are doing your job.
Okay?
@@ChaseDvD do you not understand my argument or do you agree but want more explanation?
Taking away the TE YAC makes no sense at all. You just assumed if the pass was only for 10 yards (1st down) that CJ would not complete another pass on that drive. Perhaps he goes 5/5 for 60 yards the rest of the drive? Your analysis is a bit faulty, just saying
Why would they make stuff up bruh. They are grading the play not what if
I hear you. You are correct. An perhaps we are saying the same thing: The reason for the lower grade, as an example, is the play that Jordan made. Had he been tackled with a gain of 12 yards it is conceivable that CJ score would be higher. I'm not saying his score is incorrect it is what it is, I'm saying it doesn't mean that much because he took what was there. He made the right reads, got the ball out quickly (no sacks), and hit his receivers in stride. That is all you can ask a QB to do
@@ChaseDvD
The Brevin Jordan play was schemed to work just like it did. CJ put himself out in the open for the two defenders who "got past" Jordan and CJ made them pay by dumping the ball over their heads to Jordan who was then free of the defenders on that side of the field. But that counts against Stroud. Alright. On the long "over throw", Nico slowed and misjudged - CJ threw it where Nico should have been. And from your comments, that counts against Stroud. Alright. If y'all are going to add subjective reasoning to your grading, then why score the "easy" passes more than the "hard" passes? Why was the Browns' defense (the top rated defense btw) terrible? Were they just a no show or did they just not have an answer for Stroud & Co? I dunno, but it just seems to be a miss on your scoring of a pretty much universally agreed outstanding performance by Stroud. Possibly you've exposed a weakness in your system.
I think there's a lot of truth to that, certainly. But you can't seriously expect every play to go 76 yards as if that's the default. Most plays don't.
If a model is going to assign credit to one party versus the other, I think it makes perfect sense to assign the majority of the credit to Brevin rather than Stroud. Accounting for and rewarding the talent of skill position players shouldn't be a negative.
One of the cool things about the PFF grade is that it grades every position. The league will come up with 10 different QBRs, but it seems it's up to fantasy football analysts to come up with anything equivalent for the other 21 people on the field.
That Jordan play was crazy... makea the catch hnder the coverage... acts like hes going for the sideline and then steps up and drives past them all and sprints all the way to the end zone
@@TheHauntedKiwiNo one said it was expected. Surprised the heck out of me because 1) Jordan doesn't get much action and 2) Who would have thought he could run that fast? So your second comment now is saying anything that happens after the catch, no credit to the QB. So the QB throwing to the WR in a way to open up YAC is zero credit to the QB. That does not make sense. I would like to know in what world CJ deserved a score of 77.8 in that game vs the Browns that puts him smack in the middle of PFF's average starter range. The only answer is the subjective stat of Turnover Worthy Pass, which was 1 per PFF and was not turned over. Otherwise, CJ had the exact same stats as Love, yet Love got a grade of 92.5.
CJ barely even played the second half. If he played the whole game he would have had 300+ yards and 5tds. I feel the scoring should take that into account too
Make up stuff that he did do?
Good deal, i can continue to not take these 'statistical ourcomes' seriously
This explanation only makes their grades look more suspect. They’re highly subjective and go off of their opinions, not facts. To even say, the QB didn’t deserve that TD because of YAC, is a truly ridiculous statement.
tf
PFF grades are good. Ppl don't appreciate how much hard work goes into getting a grade to be this accurate. These grades are far better than what had been offered prior. Whats also important is that its the effort thats being made, with the way of thinking about it, that matters. Is it perfect? Ofc not, but again its moving in the right direction and I challenge any haters to develop a better system. They won't, cuz they can't. But everyones got the right to hate right? Lame imo.
Bunch of nerds with low testosterone
Clowns u dropped 20% because he didn't have to do anything bc his receivers did their job?? I'm so confused... I'm turned off now... get more players in here to make the "grade". If all of nfl uses ur grade do better...
Stroud did not go 5/11 in passing past the sticks. Jesus, he only had 5 incompletions the entire game. Your math is poor as well. Someone needs to edit your notes before airing
Of course I want to get into it
At this rate Lamar gotta be the worst QB in the league 🤣
In a vacuum it makes no sense that air yards determines so much for the rating. Objectively, Jordan love made a worse throw on the Musgraves TD but it more positively impacts his score than CJs throw to Brevin?
Love made a better throw AND showed his intelligence as a QB/playcaller because that play was scripted by LaFleur to be a run play (same play was run multiple times in the game at that point), and Love changed it to a pass play since he knew the Cowboys D would overcommit to the run play that was gouging them all game.
@@narcocastillo3783
I dont really want it to be a Stroud vs Love thing because both are unbelievable but fair points, just felt like the throw wasn't that great on that particular play. Decision was great!
@poggchampion a lot of the wide open throws the receiver had to stop in his tracks cause love couldn't hit him in stride. But like everyone except that one packer fan is saying it's all subjective. The stats are cool but JJ is right we shouldn't treat it as gospel.
They never said it determined "that much"
@@christianlcastle98 out of curiosity, which throws are you reffering to? The Musgrave TD is an intentional underthrow. You want to put it up in area your guy is easily going to catch it vs leading him down the field when hes that open on a cross field throw. Off memory they ran that play week 1 in Chicago and he threw it almost identical to that.
if he we are making things up and changing a long TD run to a 10 yard pass completion, why are we assuming that drive does not end in a TD anyways and only give him credit for 2 TD passes? the argument is very valid that Brevin Jordan had more to do with that play than CJ did, but we can't take imaginary drives away from him if we are gunna give him credit for a 10 drive extending play.
Stroud did all that in 3 quarters though.
Greenbays starters were pulled in the 4th quarter so most of Loves stats were also in 3 quarters.
Actually 2 quarters
What if nico collins wouldn't have let up abit on the missed touchdown pass. What if dalton Schultz doesn't drop the open sideline pass proply goes for 4o yards maybe a tud. Also the "interception worthy" play was thrown to double coverage but wasn't close to being picked. What if this What if that, not to mention jordan loves recivers had an average separation of over like 4 yards, do you take that into acount on his grade.
That play was absolutely about to be picked lol. Only reason the safety dropped it was because his own corner hit him and knocked it out as he was ALSO trying to pick it off. The receiver had the lowest chance of the three of catching that ball.
The fact that you're admitting that you all came up with this on your own does not help your arguments.
PFF gotta take it with the grain of salt, cj passes the eye test by a mile
Just admit it pff hates the texans its been this way for awhile. Yall just finally got called out for basically making shit up
Y’all sound crazy. It was a horrible grade. And this makes it sound crazy
CJ Stroud got a very good grade what the fuck are you talking about. Theyre talking about a B+ vs an A+ they didnt give him an F lol
Y’all sound so arrogant - “we normalised for everything” bs
Ya’ll should have known this was a pointless video to make. 99% of people have already made up their minds that “you didn’t give my guy as good a score as their guy so you are wrong!” No amount of facts, logic, or reasoning will convince people they are wrong because they only want to be right and will ignore any information that states otherwise.
If people are trying to figure out if love is better than stroud, I swearrrrr 😂😂😂 does your algorithm include the defenses abilities or does it not matter? Just use the eye test and add a numerical value to that as well..you say oh this safety should’ve picked it and this guy should have tackled this or that Texan..two things are true, cowboys are trash and so is yalls ability to nuance or add in human factor at the end of the day..hence, algorithm
These guys are clowns 🤡
What will PFF have to say when Stroud beats the Ravens (another top 5 defense) and PFF Jordan gets sent home by San Francisco? LOL
Place your bets. Seems like you can see the future 😂😂
They'll give Myles Garrett the same grade somehow.
@@MrKhankab I am not even a Texans fan but I am a Stroud fan. This guy plays his best ball against the biggest challenges. I wish my Cowboys had him and not Dak.
@@speedfiend925 but you here you are crying about a pff score lol
They will likely grade the plays and throws that happened on the field. That's how this stuff works.
PFF has some of the dumbest stats and worst graders
Weird to mute the thread for being attacked after attacking JJ Watt first. When Watt said algorithms, i didn't take it to mean in totality, but his point his non-football people judging people who actually play and pff having more weight than ex-players and coaches.
Not only that, but making assumptions on what they THINK a player should be doing during a play and what their assignments are.
Pff has always been trash
Unsubscribing good bye pff !!!!
Unbelievably dumb grading system. Do you nerds even look at the situation of Stroud’s “turnover worthy play”? It was 3rd and 8. Texans out of field goal range. Nobody open. Stroud tries to squeeze a ball in. Even if the ball is picked off, the Browns have 1st down at their own 35 yard line. It would’ve essentially been an “arm punt”. All things considered, it was all Stroud could do if he wanted a chance to convert. You guys need to take into account the situation in the game when you make these grades.
I'm curious if TWPs are graded on a scale because this is spot on. A lot of"Turn Over Worthy Plays" are actually the correct risk in that given situation. I much rather have a QB try to fit in a ball and give his team a chance rather than just throw the ball away and punt
No wonder these guys don’t get a lot of views. They don’t even take into account he’s a rookie
@@babyj5566why would a stat take that into account. That would be even more stupid
@@venom18s need to make adjustments to make sure Stroud get a a 100 grade or its all rigged because the world hates the Texans who havent been relevant... well ever?
Jordan is better than Stroud imo. Look at Strouds highlight reel. His line is INSANE. He never has anyone within 10ft of him. Anyone can throw that accurate while that comfortable. Jordan on the other hand has the Mahomes / Arod skillset, and is already proving he can be more dangerous while under pressure / blitzed. Thats got Hall of Fame written all over it.
For the wildcard game, some context--
Love when pressured: 4/4 114yds & 1 TD
Stroud when pressured: 6/8 for 110yds
You don’t know football. Stroud is in mvp talks, love isn’t. Your comparison who’s better between a 3 year vet and a rookie is a loser scenario. That’s like a high school senior saying he’s better than a freshman. The fact he has to say that means he isn’t better. If Jordan love was doing this his rookie season then we could have an argument but he’s been in the league for a lil while.
@@babyj5566 (1) Stroud was never in MVP talks, but he was in OPOY talks for sure. (2) We're talking about 1 game, the wildcard games from this weekend not the season -- yes, Stroud had a better season overall than Love (who had a bad stretch over a month) and is more impressive due to the fact that he is a true rookie vs Love. (3) However CJ Stroud ended the season almost the same as Love (Love has slightly more yards, 9 more TDs, and a slightly higher completion % by end of season).
lmaooo you have no idea what youre talking about
This grade explanation is horrible
" we made you" this pff grading stuff is bull $hit
Clowns so not that CJ didn't get a touchdown it's "how he got the touchdown" lol what these subjective opinions won't say is it took love 4 quarters to do what stroud did in 3. That's what causes a 20 point difference smh
Bad explanation immediately. Change the outcome of two plays. So the long TD pass just becomes a 1st down. What happens after that? This is why what ifs are dumb.
I stopped watching 5 minutes in. What a load of crap!
You try and justify yourselves but just sound like clowns.
I watched this explanation thinking maybe I was crazy and missing some great insight that goes into the grades. If anything this video did the opposite. PFF generally gives off a “my shit doesn’t stink” vibes. Both of these guys just added to it.
What? Genuinely trying to understand this comment. Their point was that Stroud’s stats were dependent on things OUTSIDE his control. If that interception doesn’t get dropped his stats look way worse. If Jordan doesn’t make an incredible play Stroud has 60 fewer yards and is down a TD. Pretty easy to understand if you actually pay attention
@@overtonwindowshopper because a lot of what they grade on is very subjective and based on a ton of assumptions on what they think a player should be doing suring a play when they don't even know what was called
@@fbch32 that doesn’t change the fact that Stroud had a turnover worthy play which they cited as the biggest knock to his score.
I know education isn’t a priority in TX but this really isn’t that difficult to understand lol
@@overtonwindowshopper idk, seems like education is horrendous where you're from cause I didn't say anywhere that my criticism was about their grade on Stroud. My response used the comment as a way to transition into a general criticism of PFFs grading system.
If you want to throw an insult, make sure you're not a dumbass yourself
@@overtonwindowshopperbullshit, a turnover worthy play is not quantifiable by any metric other than their thoughts. All they told us is that their grades are highly subjective.
what about Love’s ugly wobbler to the most open guy in NFL this season. adjustments there?
Incredible neither of you are running NFL teams. It hurts me to know there are 181 thousand people that believe your nonsense.
I’ll save you some time…. JJ was right.
Lmao, all these salty Texans fans are hilarious
You guys are completely ignoring the fact that CJ essentially sat out the 4th quarter, because the game was in hand and Demeco decided not to risk keeping him in the game. On the other hand Jordan played all 60 minutes. So CJ matched Jordan’s productivity in only 75% of the time. These are two outstanding QBs. But we know which one is better at this point. And when this weekend is over, so will you.
If CJ had played another 10 minutes - which he would have under most coaches - would any of this conversation be valid?
If ifs and buts were candy and nuts.
How and why would a grading model account for that? What if he got hurt and missed the fourth that way? What if he wanted to get some incentives for the backup QB and missed the fourth that way?
It makes perfect sense to grade him based on plays that did happen, rather than imaginary plays that did not. You don't have to agree with them, but you can't include hypothetical yards.
Did you watch the Packers game? Greenbays starters on offense and defense got pulled in the 4th quarter that’s how the Cowboys ended up with 32 points in garbage time.
17:00 based off this vid, JJ had you guys pegged spot on
PFF is the "grading" equivalent of the S2 test.
JJ just cooked this trash PFF bs 🤣🤣🤡🤡
You grading system is shit. What your saying is if the Browns scored more and played better CJ would have had a better score.
You 2 don't play football. You don't deserve to be analysts.
😂 😂
the fact that they don't play football doesn't matter, what matters is that they got this arrogant attitude that they know best and can accurately guess every play that was called, what every players assignment and role is supposed to be, and act like they can create objective grades to subjective criteria
@@fbch32 😂 they don't have an arrogant attitude. They have confidence, and people who don't like their position don't like the confidence.